Dungeon Saga Origins Review | A Streamlined, Family-Friendly Game Hiding in the Shadows | Sponsored
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 6 ก.ค. 2024
- Always Board Never Boring recently received a review copy of Dungeon Saga Origins from Mantic Games. In this video review, he walks through the cold, dark dungeons, inhabited by the undead, to determine if this is a game that you might want to add to your collection.
The road is long, so here are some time stamps:
00:00 Intro
00:24 Dwarf King’s Quest
01:35 Origins
02:04 The box
02:39 A lot with a little
07:34 Getting started
11:31 The enemies
12:57 Moving
14:07 Traps
16:06 Combat
19:42 Exploring
23:32 Death
24:32 The Overlord
26:02 Solo and co-op
27:40 The elephant in the room
31:35 Final thoughts
Thank you to Mantic Games for sending this game for review. If you want to check out their stuff, go here:
www.manticgames.com/dice-boar...
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Pretty fair review. It is intended as a very simple starter dungeon crawl for families. Matt definitely had Heroquest in mind when modifying DS into DSO. Ronnie went a little overboard in upsizing the models with the tile size staying the same as in League of Infamy. On the solo side, I really did not want to have a solo experience on the app where you had to track the position of every model as that would really just be playing the game in the app. With the zone control and facing rules it would be required if the app directed the minions. Just having the app do mainly map reveal is how it is intended. The traps placed on the map are to facilitate the solo coop play and there is an item available to help deal with traps. I redid the trap rules in DS in its last expansion to provide more interaction options for heroes and maybe those could be ported over to this for people interested in that. The expansions do a better job with the minion variation as they use models from previous releases. The also have some more varied game play elements.
Thanks for watching and commenting.
I think the Digital Overlord is absolutely fine as it is. I use it even when I'm playing as the Overlord as it's easier than referring to the map - I'm less likely to miss small details - and it tracks when rooms have been searched. I don't think it needed to move the monsters, but I did have to make it clear in the review that it didn't. I didn't want anybody to think the Digital Overlord was doing more than it does.
As I mentioned in the review, the trap rules do really help for solo play, which is the big plus point for them. I didn't like them, but that's a personal taste thing, and I can see the intent well enough.
Overall, as I said in my conclusion, it's a hard game to dislike despite my complaints, I have enjoyed playing it, and there's a lot to recommend. I can see it being very popular. I am interested to know what the plan is with heroes for the game, though, as I understand that all the heroes unlocked during the Kickstarter were exclusive.
I think you made some excellent work regarding the solo/co-op rules and how the Digital Overlord stays in the background, and is not an AI that tries to run the whole game for me. I would have preferred that the HeroQuest app worked similar to the DSO Digital Overlord, or at least would offer me a mode where I could turn off the monster AI and movement.
Well I'm a fan, it's a huge improvement in quality and a much more "tidy" game now.
Yeah there is a bit of variation in scale between miniatures - but that's not too bad.
If I could change just one this, it would be the tile squares- it so darn squished in them.
A complaint I share about heroquest.
It's kind of funny that I use the mantic saga undead and goblins in heroquest as I prefer the miniatures.
But I'd like to make special mention of the lovely bright art style for dungeon saga origins, just had a nice bright look and the books look proper old school.
Funny thing is that I got the heroquest reprint a few months ago as it was on serious sale but cannot use tha app as my phone is to old.
A friend of mine recommended this to me and after having a look and watching some gameplay videos (solo and competitive) I decided to jump in and order a legendary edition. I also already have a good bit of Mantic’s dungeon terrain (the Terrain crates are very useful for TTRPGs) so that will really enhance the experience for me and my little adventurers.
I have some Terrain Crate stuff, and I have all the furniture from the original Dwarf King's Quest. It's good stuff, but I find it makes the Origins boards even more cramped. Going just slightly bigger on the spaces would have made a massive difference, I feel. I hope you enjoy the game - there's stacks of content in the Legendary edition!
I've been looking for a solo dungeon crawler at a reasonable price point with minimal set.up time.
Criticisms aside, this might still be the right choice for me.
Thanks for the insight!
It's a pretty solid solo system, and you can set up and play through a dungeon in about an hour, so it sounds like it might be a good choice for you. Definitely easier to transport than a lot of other games too!
As always, bear in mind my criticisms are my criticisms and may not be an issue for other players. For example, I really would have liked to see cards for the boons, but there will be plenty of people who prefer the tokens because they save a lot of space (and more still who will just happily make their own cards).
I backed this and was delighted with the contents - i prefer using the mantic dungeon saga miniatures with my heroquest and with legendary edition there are loads of enemies.
Im very happy with the improvement of quality from the original game.
I hope we see star saga revisited
The miniatures are miles ahead of what was in Dwarf King's Quest. You can really see the improvement. I just wish they had scaled things up a little like adding a bit of space between the squares on the boards and making money tokens a bit more substantial. If the game had more space to breathe I think it would greatly enhance the experience.
Also looking for a star saga revisited though I hope a remake would be a bit more robust than the dungeon saga remake .
I have been having fun with the game. I have been using some of the terrain from HQ mainly the doors. i might switch the Barbarian model to fix that big swinging axe. Great review
That axe is a real nuisance when the dungeon gets busy! Glad to hear you are having a lot of fun with the game, and thanks for watching.
Great review!!
Thank you.
A really balanced, comprehensive review - thank you. For me, it ultimately seems worth the £40-£50 asking price, offering a decent amount of fun for that price.
Thanks. I think it's worth the price, and the game has a lot of charm. If you want a small, compact experience, this starter set is great, but for those people who think they are going to love it, it may be worth getting a Legendary Edition which has the extra expansions and heroes as well.
It's £60 rrp, but you could probably find it for £50 somewhere
Thanks for the review. How do the minis scale up to the new hero quest ones?
I will try to post some comparison photos on my Instagram over the weekend for you and will post again here to let you know if I do.
Thanks!
Sounds interesting. I might pick this up. If nothing else,you can always use more minis and dungeon tiles,right?
The miniatures are good, and I like that we have some other undead races, like the trolls and dwarfs. Not enough board games do that.
Some of the more tactical rules from DSO like front facing arcs and rolling one die less for outnumbered opponents can be easily added to HeroQuest.
Great video! I agree with you on most of the issues you mentioned. I feel that the game only needed a few more tweaks here and there to be excellent.
I really love the solid solo/co-op rules in Dungeon Saga Origins, that has been very well thought out and been a core part of the game development. And I just prefer the DSO Digital Overlord over the HeroQuest app. In the HeroQuest app you constantly have to move the characters to match the position on the board, and the app just controls the game to much. It sometimes doesn't feel like playing a board game when using the app, and it gets old really fast.
The DSO Digital Overlord on the other hand, tries to stay in the background and is only used when deploying new monsters, rooms, traps etc. It's more like a digital quest book, and not an AI that runs the game like the HeroQuest app. I really wish that the HeroQuest app would offer a mode, were you could turn off the AI and run the game like you do in the DSO Digital Overlord. This is how I think a dungeon crawler assistant app should be like. Stay in the background and let me play my board game. Then I also do not mind using an app while playing.
I have the Dungeon Saga Origins - Legendary Edition, and I am overall happy with it. It can still be found at retail in a few places for around £90. That is a fantastic price for the core game + 3 expansions containing 96 excellent minis, 10 heroes and 4 campaigns with 42 quests. But the Legendary Edition box is big!
The HeroQuest app has to track the hero movement to know when you stand on a trap. No real way around that, unfortunately. But to make it more like the Digital Overlord go to the options menu and switch off “track hero turns.” It will let you move freely and Zargon won’t get a turn.
@@AlwaysBoardNeverBoring
Thank. Yes, I have been playing it that way. So that I did not have to use the weak monster AI from the app.
If they could just implement a mode, were I could press on a door to open it, that would reveal all room content, monsters and traps, I could come up with my own house rules for traps in solo/co-op mode. That would help a lot. Then I would not need to constantly have to move the heroes in the app, and the app would stay in the background as the DSO Digital overload.
Great vid, I might actually buy this.
Thanks. I'm glad the video has helped you with your purchasing decision.
@@AlwaysBoardNeverBoring Just ordered it. Pity League of Infamy didn't see much success because that game looked awesome as well.
Nice review. I have this and Heroquest, and like both, but these two games need to get it on and have a baby together because combining elements from both would make a great game.
Things like the interrupt tokens add a little something for the Overlord to do. Something like that in HeroQuest would be good, and I do think we are moving more towards that sort of thing in HeroQuest, based on what Avalon Hill did with Ogre Horde and the additional rules for arena combat.
Great review, pretty much echoed my thoughts having owned the legendary version since its kick starter fulfillment.
The tile sizes are a faux pas for me, we pointed out the issue during the games development and was confidently informed they would be bigger as it was just a concept version they were showing at the time........ didnt happen unfortunately, which really lets this down for me.
The Barbarian and his axe is a lovey sculpt but is impractical in the game along with the wizard.
I did hope they would release a more board tile size friendly re sculpt of the two, either as a free to backers (but we pay the postage) or in a future game expansion.
The lack of gold loot and item cards variety is an easy fix if they really wanted to add to the game, through a card booster pack, but this is unlikely to be done imo.
I had extremely high hopes for this, but it fell a little short of hitting the game it could have been.
Still, a lot of game for the money, in both versions. Glad they reached out and sent you a copy to review.
That's a bit naughty if they said they would make the boards bigger and then didn't. It really does harm gameplay for me, because I spend about 30% of each game repositioning components and trying to squeeze minis into impractical spaces. It's a bit frustrating because I think most of the complaints I have about the game would have been quite easy to fix. The game is actually fun so those little complaints sting just a bit more.
I also have concerns about how they intend to expand the game at retail in terms of new heroes, as they seem to have made every other hero exclusive. It feels like people who don't get involved with a Legendary box may be quite limited in their options, so I hope Mantic have some plans on that front.
Are there any mechanisms in the game to reuse material from the old Dungeon Saga?
You can use your old furniture bits. Miniatures are scaled up now though so the old ones look a bit tiny next to them. You could use the old Dwarf King's Quest tiles to make your own dungeons if you wanted. Ultimately this is a fresh start with a totally revised edition.
It seems like they were trying to make the game affordable and more accessible by cutting some corners of some of the components. For those who can't afford to drop 80 to 100 bucks on heroquest or some other dungeon crawlers. This might be worth looking into for those who wana start somewhere. Although I don't know how well the rules are lay out for beginers in the rules books. But it seems like a interesting game. And the tiles do look nice in the video and it looks really fun. I might pick up box just to check out and maybe run a few games. Few little nick bits I have just from watching the video. Some of the Icon seem a little too big, also seems like the trap system is a little weird. I have to agree I'm not a fan of the type of trap system myself. Makes the game feel a little on the easy side for the players. Is there a tool kit or some type skill that helps the hero's disable the trap? If not seems like that should fix.
When you went over the combat, I really like the combat system. This combat system feels like a hybrid of some skirmish games. What I will say is I do the like that how monsters spawn when the (wondering).... I mean marauding monsters appear by rolling a 6d and see if another one appears. I really like that, it feels like that was a throw back to old school dungeon crawls of the early days of D&D. I do believe agree some of the mini's do need teaking.
All in all great review, like I said I might pick up a copy for myself. thanks for this review. There are some cool concepts that interest me with this game. Thank you for sharing this review. :D All in all great job of laying out the rules and explaining how the game is run. I think if the creator see's this video, I believe he will make some corrections to the game and I think that's a net win for everyone :)
Thanks for watching and sharing your thoughts. There is one tool kit you can buy (if a merchant has it). If the hero with the tool kit stands on a trap they roll a D6 and on a 5 or 6 you discard the trap, otherwise it goes off as normal. That helps a bit, but doesn't really change the way traps work.
What I don't know is if traps change significantly in any of the expansions. For example, they may be mechanically very different in the goblin dungeons. I've only played the Trial of Tyranny from the retail core set.
Combat is great. I think it's really fun, and even if you roll poorly you may still be able to land a hit. It's not too swingy, either. The second marauding monster that may pop is also pretty cool. As the Overlord the game gives you some fun little ways to screw with the heroes. Playing an interrupt because the heroes weren't paying attention is always good value.
@@AlwaysBoardNeverBoring oh wow I really like that Overlord interrupt game play. completely forgot that was in the video. haha I might steal that mechanic for my next game of heroquest with my gaming group.
It's a very neat mechanism. I can't recall if I mentioned it in the video, but you can only do a maximum of two interrupts in a turn, and at least one hero has to activate between them, so you can't just spam them. So, it's a nice little detail to give you a bit more to think about.
Interesting. Thanks ABNB.
Thanks for watching.
My FLGS only has the Legendary Edition, at about twice the price of the basic set. I don't know if I should just wait. Because I'm pretty sure I'll pick this up.
If you are confident you are going to like it, the Legendary box could be a good shout. It's the core game and three themed expansions, with almost 100 miniatures, so it's going to be better value than getting everything separately. Of course, it's a big gamble if you aren't sure.
@@AlwaysBoardNeverBoring Sounds like it will be a pretty good toolbox for RPGs and other games. I'll sleep on it, but seems like a risk worth taking.
The heroes alone make the legendary version worth it
If you look at the old Kickstarter campaign for the game you will be able to see complete contents of all the expansions. All the cute goblins may make your decision easier!
The Legendary Edition also comes with some extra heroes (human paladin, halfling rogue, dwarf ranger, human cleric, elf warlock). I was thinking they might pack them in with the expansions, but the KS page has them as KS exclusive.
I fully agree that miniatures are excellent, especially the dwarf hero. Sincerely
Rordin is such a cool-looking dwarf.
how olds your kid? i've a 6 year old.. he didnt quite get cora quest last year , im wondering about D&D adventure system game or this or one page rules..or this or get new hero quest?
I have two children. One is six, one is 13. I wouldn't attempt Dungeon Saga with my six-year-old. There's a lot of positional play and dice rolling. All children are different, but I know my youngest wouldn't sit through a whole game of HeroQuest - games can go on quite a long time - and the D&D board games would be way above what he could handle with the D20 combat system, lots of skills and items to read, and some surprisingly thinky tactical gameplay.
If I want to go dungeon-crawling with my youngest we will play something like The aMAZEing Labyrinth from Ravensburger, but most of the time with him I am playing stuff like Sink n'Sand, Monster Mash, and dexterity games like the Mario balancing game.
How did you manage to activate 4 explaration cards?
Sorry, I don't understand what you're asking.
@@AlwaysBoardNeverBoring you said you could find 4 wondering monsters.
Did you not mean in one turn?
Ah, I see. A marauding monster card can generate two monsters, and when you open a treasure chest you draw two cards.
Fair and accurate review
Thanks. Do you enjoy Dungeon Saga Origins?
What is the name of the app? I cannot find it.
It's not an app, it's the Digital Overlord on the Dungeon Saga Origins website.
Overlord: "Hey, man -- can I borrow some skeletons, and maybe a zombie or two..?"
Witch Lord: "No! And you can't have my Mummies either!"
Overlord: "Aww c'mon man!"
😅
A mummy or two would have been a great addition to the Overlord's forces.
@@AlwaysBoardNeverBoring Still, I like the the sculpts and the white dice. It has some very pretty game play-elements.
And, hey on the bright side, it's WAY better than Dungeons of Demus! 🤣
Oh this game kicks Dungeons of Demus squarely in the ass!
@@AlwaysBoardNeverBoring Without a doubt! I shot you an email containing a quick re-write of the Demus rules. It's pretty basic, but might me worth a try.
I did skim-read what you did. I thought I had responded. I recommend posting homebrew over on Board Game Geek, you may find a few other people who are tinkering with the game.
Looks like a neat game.
It has some neat ideas, for sure.
I have Dwarf Kings quest and 4 expansions plus adventurers companion which is a slightly broken solo mode but still good enough.
Also backed Dungeon Saga Origins Legendary, a tonne of content.
Your criticisms of both Dungeon Saga's are spot on. Worst thing about Dwarf King Series is the cards imo, ridiculously small text and some text is dark on dark backgrounds. So much wasted card space with useless art, at least with Origins they improved the cards plenty. Same with the miniatures as you say. They should have stayed with square bases for DSO.
Yes much prefer the trap system in HQ, I like both combat systems but yeah little more sophisticated in DSO.
Yeah plenty of negative exploration cards in DS but HeroQuest has fairly high negative treasure card count at 36% (1990 UK Edition), HQ2021 is even higher at 41% which is weird considering every Hero can search for treasure in single room.
I've House Ruled HQ2021 a fair amount though and remove most neg cards as I want treasure to be treasure plus my Heroes have less opportunity to find treasure as they're not allowed to search empty rooms. Can only search furniture pieces once but have an opportunity for extra card rolled against their mind points. Think I have something like 17% neg cards in the treasure deck now but I have 2 decks plus all expansions.
Square bases would have been a good choice for Origins. I do think there is a significant difference between negative search cards in Origins compared to HeroQuest:
1. When you search a chest you have to draw two cards and resolve them both. Opening a chest to find four monsters isn't fun.
2. The amount of extra monsters generated can bog the pace of the game down.
3. Even most of the good cards - small cash finds - have a chance to hurt you.
4. A lot of the good treasure finds are incredibly small amounts. The game just isn't particularly generous with its treasure.
5. Multiple times my daughter has opened a chest, taken damage from a wound, and then found a potion that restores one wound. This feels a bit pointless.
Combining those things really saps a lot of the enjoyment out of searching.
Incidentally, in HeroQuest I have only ever allowed one search per room to keep the pace of the game high. Everybody taking a turn to search a room is a real fun killer.
@@AlwaysBoardNeverBoring
"Incidentally, in HeroQuest I have only ever allowed one search per room to keep the pace of the game high. Everybody taking a turn to search a room is a real fun killer."
Yeah but that's the normal rule for UK/Euro edition right? which is what I used to do back in the day, at least that's how I remember it, might have to check the old HQ rules and see.
American version allowed everyone to search which is what HQ2021 is based on. And yes I agree it's quite silly for everyone to search, especially with such a high negative card draw, I mean many quests have 10 or more rooms which is possible 40 searches or more for 24 cards or more. It's why I changed it to furniture search only but I use 40 of a possible 65 cards (including a 2nd deck) with all hazards (except poison) and 6 of 12 wandering monsters plus a few very low gold cards removed. The DM has chance to bring in Wandering Monsters in my House Rules though.
No, that wasn't the original European rule. The original rule was that heroes could always search instead of fighting. But yes, obviously Avalon Hill's edition uses the NA rules set
@@AlwaysBoardNeverBoring
HA I've never realised back then or now, I always played it back then as a single room search by one hero.
Just dug out the original rule book and yeah it's seems to be open ended and doesn't actually specify any search limits for treasure.
I backed DKQ back in the day, millions of figures but the game felt like you weren't really taking part. The tile and card art was dull too. I like the look of these minis, they look great! the board too besides repeat art but the cards are a bit meh. Having all the HQ old and new inc expansions I don't feel it worth looking at this but kudos to Mantic for doing something the same but different.
One thing I didn't like in Dwarf King's Quest was how the Overlord always seemed to be playing to slow the heroes down until the card deck ran out. It could feel like a bit of a slog, because the aim was always just to deny the heroes their movement so they couldn't advance into the dungeon. That element isn't in this new edition, so the game does have a bit more forward momentum.
This looks like a good game.
It's got some great ideas. I think it's let down a bit by some of the components, and for me it's a bit too close to HeroQuest to stand out on its own terms. Lots of reasons to love it, though.
When I bought Dungeon Saga Dwarf Kings Quest next day i saw on internet the game was going to be booted ( my swearly annoyance would of made even a hardy dwarf blush heck Tolkien was now for creating new languages i could of thought him a few new words) My opinion of the original game i loved the combat. I didnt like the missions tile set ups but like the dungeon furniture and figures what ive used in other games. Doubt i buy the reboot unless i see it in a sale
Ah, that's rough when that happens. I've had similar situations before. Dungeon Saga combat is very neat.
Thanks for watching and sharing your own experiences with the game series.
I have the original game with a few of the expansions. The thing that bothered me the most was the lack of real campaign progression. Sounds like they didn't really address this at all in the new version.
Going to be a hard pass for me.
Yeah, there's a bit of progression but not much. They did enhance the XP system so instead of earning an extra dice you can earn boon tokens that do different things. But it's still quite bare-bones.
This seems like it would be a more reasonable experience if you heavily modified the rules to more closely resemble its obvious inspiration.
I feel like this is the game for people who don't really like HeroQuest but do like the idea of a family-friendly dungeoncrawler. I think it will find a market, but I'm not sure you need both in your collection. Maybe that changes with expansions.
I thought you said you would skip this?
Yes, as I said in the video, I didn't back it as I have Dwarf King's Quest, but (as with all things) was keeping an eye on it, and then I was sent a review copy.
@AlwaysBoardNeverBoring
When my copy came I was very happy so much stuff. Need to put them on squares
The only aspect of the original Dungeon Saga I hated was move first or lose your movement.
That said, I did eventually complete the original quest and had a fun time with it.
Dwarf King's Quest had some neat ideas, but I struggled with it, particularly with rules that seemed designed to waste your time to put extra time pressure on you. I don't believe we ever finished the core game campaign.
@@AlwaysBoardNeverBoring Yeah, I get you. I stopped after the 2nd quest and didn't continue for a long while until I made up my mind to just accept it for what it was instead of wishing it was something else. I can live with it now and plan to play the follow up quest soon.
Wow. It's been 13 years and Mantic is still re-heating the Dwarf King's Hold ruleset Jake Thornton made for them in 2011. I think this might be the sixth game with that exact movement and dice system but honestly it's hard to count at this point. And the ruleset wasn't even really all that good in the first place, resulting in the most optimal way for adventurers to traverse a dungeon to always be side-stepping along corridors with their back to the wall...
I recall three Dwarf King's Hold games - dwarfs, elves, orcs - then Quest - now Origins. I might be missing one in the line that I can't recall though.
My daughter very quickly learned to do the side shuffle down the walls and to open doors sideways!
There was also Project Pandora, which was a Dwarf King's Hold sci-fi reskin. I think they did several other dungeon crawling games, including licensed ones, in the interim but to be honest I completely checked out of Mantic stuff around 2016, despite it being the main course of my gaming diet for a couple years.
@@toferkrz946 Ah of course, that’s the Grim Cargo one. I had completely forgotten about the sci-fi stuff.
See, I liked the first version more than this one. There was enough complexity to intrest me. True, it had it's problems, and for every innovation it made it did something outdated, but I found it to be a good game. This one, on the other hand is very much like Hero Quest in that it is far too simplistic for my taste. Especially as the person who is typically the overlord player there is just not enough to keep one engaged with the game. The idea of turn after turn of nothing to do irks me. If the overlord is going to have so little to do on their turn, just make the game a co-op and automate the overlord as standard.
Their Sci Fi version Star Saga fixed a lot of the issues I had with Dungeon Saga, but it also has its own problems. I mean, if you are going to have facing rulea on a square grid, why make the models with round bases? Either have an arrow moulded intot he base like you suggested or simply have them on square bases.
This was just not enough crunch to make things interesting for me. I'll stick to Descent 2nd ed.
I also prefer Dwarf King's Quest to this Origins, but they clearly wanted to make a cleaner, more streamlined version, so in that regard I guess they succeeded in their goal. The new solo mode is a very solid effort.
Ugh the explore mechanic sounds like Shadows of Brimstone's scavenge, learned very quickly to not bother.
The problem here is in Origins, searching isn't optional. When you search, you don't specify what you are searching for. If there is a door, you find the door. If you have already found the door, or there is no door, you will find either quest relevant information or treasure. If you never search, you will never progress in the campaign. Searching is also pretty much the only way to get money to buy stuff. At least in Shadows it's a push-your-luck mechanism, and if you aren't feeling brave you can decide not to bother.
@@AlwaysBoardNeverBoring Well, think I'm skipping this one. The minis do look nice and I like a non-app coop play. Thanks for the vid.
As soon as you said there was only 3 tiles I was like that's a hard pass for me. I have the original game and some expansions.
I still have Dwarf King's Quest on my shelf, and I do think I prefer that version to this new one. They both have their charms, though. This one is definitely cleaner, and I do like the boards over the fiddly little tiles they used previously.
I never thought Mantic were trying to exclusively replicate HeroQuest, but rather HeroQuest AND Warhammer Quest. In the original Kickstarter from several years ago, they were marketing hard to infer that the game would mimic Warhammer Quest, with its almost RPG-lite like elements of hero advancement, randomised dungeon creation and post game town visitations.
In the end it was a dishonest marketing campaign and the game fell well short of Warhammer Quest, and didn't fill the niche of HeroQuest...that, combined with some poor quality game components and failed delivery of components, really hurt the game and Mantics reputation at the time...to the point that I did not pledge for anything of theirs afterwards.
It was still a very good game though, and Jake Thornton did an excellent job on the dice combat system and magic system. The range of spells available across the entire game is enormous, and many of them feel like you really are casting a variety of spell effects rather than just mimicking a ranged attack.
Dungeon Saga has better movement, combat and spellcasting than all HQ, AHQ and WHQ...but it fails in the exploration, adventure and thematic depth areas and a number of other game mechanics along these lines, which is really what a fantasty dungeon crawling needs to succeed well.
I've heavily modified my original version of Dungeon Saga, keeping the excellent dice combat and spellcasting, but changing everything else to be far superior, even making my own cards which are much nicer.
One of the things that really limits this game is its use of D6 for combat, not the way the combat works itself, which is awesome, but rather the dice used. Moving up to D12's instead, has allowed me room to include small incremental increases in skills and equipment...a +1 to hit for instance on a D6 is a much bigger jump than a +1 to hit on a D12. Having more room to slowing increase skill and equipment benefits has been a major boost for the exploration of the game...now, buying a +1 to hit sword from a renowned weaponsmith in town is exciting, but not as exciting as finding a +3 to hit enchanted sword at the end of a hard dungeon slog...
Perhaps that was their stated intention, but yes, I don't think there is anything of Warhammer Quest in Dungeon Saga. I still have Dwarf King's Quest on my shelf, and I like it more than this new version. The magic system was quite neat, with crystalising power, and the cool down system, but these days I can hardly read those cards!
For me, Advanced Heroquest stands above Dungeon Saga in all aspects, which I suppose is to be expected as Advanced Heroquest is in my top five board games of all time.
@@AlwaysBoardNeverBoring Yep AHQ is an excellent game...
I went in on this rather than the heroquest reboot because I have the original Heroquest and it’s fine, the reboot minis are awful imho, not a patch on the GW ones and the Mantic ones are better. Plus some of the Kickstarter ones I can use in Kings of War.