I used to design battery management systems for large format Li-Ion batteries. I made absolutely sure that the temperature and voltage of each individual cell was monitored and opened the contactors well before any cell got into trouble. These small batteries only monitor the overall battery voltage and overall temperature and have no contactors for protection. If only one cell is out of spec or is replaced with a cell that is at a higher state of charge than the rest of the cells, you've built an improvised explosive device! That single high cell will become dangerously overcharged and will burst into flames before the charger shuts down.
Yep, there's a whole unregulated cottage industry in the UK of people tinkering with & refurbishing ebike & escooter batteries/motors/chargers. I know three live within 5 miles of me, none of whom have had any training, & they are busy, plenty of work. So this is only going to get worse.
@@ts757arse you need to load test the cell to measure real capacity, then you need to match the cell by capacity and voltage, so you have a properly balanced pack, then you need to slow charge and balance the pack, and any BMS that is put on must have active balancing, do this and set to never charge over 80% and never allow discharge below 20% you will have a very safe long lasting battery. Problem is you need to buy some basic tools for this and well, we all know how fly by nighters work!
Great video mate thanks for sharing. We had fire in an e-bike warehouse here in South Western Sydney Australia which was causing by a lithium ion battery not long back which burned the warehouse to the ground. I find it astonishing that these kind of batteries haven’t been banned worldwide as we all know how dangerous they are and how much they can damage the environment all throughout their construction through to their usage and the fact that they have the potential to become a toxic bomb at any time from accidents to human error and stupidity.
@@oldgrumpus8523 it really isn’t a surprise to me I reckon there’s way too many big companies who own way to many politicians and bureaucrats these days.
I’m hooked to your channel after finding it today but now I’m rethinking all the lithium battery banks and my homemade backup system. I hope Renogy Bluetti Bougerv Power Queen and Ecoflow have rigorous standards😂🎉
I think I get it now. instead of being able to fix your stuff, you have to reproduce that item, which means repurchase, which means retax repairing. because reusing things forever slows down the economy.
Wonder how many of those micro-mobility devices are caused by people buying off-brand or forged batteries, BMSes and chargers from non-official sources because the real stuff has excessive markups or isn't available through official retail channels at all. The manufacturing cost of lithium cells is down to about $100/kWh but official replacement batteries for most stuff is $500+/kWh, makes re-packing battery packs with "better" cells sound like a great idea.
I've ditched my lithium motorcycle battery after seeing a Ducati burn to the ground with a lithium battery. I'm even charging my power tool batteries on the driveway now. Thanks for the heads up on these things.
Thanks, this graphic seen of destruction is important viewing for anyone considering making or modding Li-ion battery packs. I only buy quality Korean or Japanese cells where the manufacturing standards are very high, but you still have to ensure they charge in a controlled manner using the right monitoring boards and charger setups. And it's certainly wise to be present and in a room with multiple exits during their charging and use.
Wait until the backyard mechanics start in on the electric cars. Those panels that say DO NOT OPEN HIGH VOLTAGE will be much tempting. There’s going to be a lot of EVs on the used market soon without any warranty so it’s only a matter of time until things get interesting.
It must be a concern for people living in older apartment blocks with timber floors and joists. Is your neighbour beneath charging their device indoors.
It's a concern that e-scooters, e-bikes, and so on are being 'custom built' for sale by people in kitchens, sheds and garages all over the world. These so-called experts may well know a bit about electrics, electronics, and have the best of intentions - i.e. to get their neighbourhood mobile with cheap(-ish) mini electric vehicles - but the fact is that, whilst 100% of these suppliers consider themselves to be brilliant craftsmen fully capable of handling the tech involved, many of them won't have got a clue about potential drawbacks (or will choose to ignore the tricky stuff in order to secure sales), and selling their 'improved performance' whizzy toys is more important than making them safe. There's a tendency in the West to dismiss small-scale Chinese manufacturers who churn out poorly built electrical products without any kind of testing or warranty, but there are dozens of e-mobility entrepreneurs in the West doing exactly what they ridicule the Chinese for. I live in the north of England (West Yorkshire) and there's a new trend for drug dealers to zip around on e-scooters ("The cops will never catch you..." is the builders' proud boast); the machines are thoroughly illegal, having massive batteries, huge performance and obviously zero safety features. What are the chances that they're built to a good standard? Who's making them? What else is he making and selling? You can be pretty sure that he's not a qualified electrical engineer. Even for honest, humble, genuinely caring builders of relatively safe, legal machines, there's a vast lack of knowledge. Just wanting to help peeps to go green and 'to do some good' isn't enough. You've got to know what you're doing. Following 'how to' guides online isn't the answer. The people posting the information may be equally idealistic, equally unqualified, and not have any more of an idea about what's what than the guy trying to find out how to wire a 'smart' battery charger for his non-standard power packs. And when was the last time you heard a guy with an interest in cars or motors or bikes or guns use the words, "I don't know"? When was the last time YOU bought a new bit of kit and actually read the handbook or operating manual all the way through? Be honest!😁 It's worrying that there are guys who will sell you a souped-up e-bike or e-scooter with the assurance that it's built to the highest standards... But what do you really know about his skills? Where did he get his battery cells from? Are they brand new and perfect or salvaged from crashed and scrapped EVs? Is the charger reliably failsafe? How good are the soldered connections? How were the pack terminals spot-welded? Did the cells overheat? No? How do you know? Owning one of these machines could be perfectly safe. It could indeed have been designed and built by a genuine expert from excellent materials. Or... it could be a bomb waiting to go off in your garage. Or your neighbour's adjoining shed. Or in the kitchen of the guy renting the flat below you. You just never know.
I was taught by Bosch E - Bike training course that when charging a lithium battery the charger should always be plugged into a PowerPoint with a timer set to switch off outside of working bike shop hours just in case.
yup and it seems with each new fire video, we always hear some in the comments saying how they do X, Y, and Z and they're the ones who do "everything right", so the PARADOX CONTINUES.
that why you should not build your battery pack like in 0:29 . while chargirg or discharging cells may worm a bit , and only thing holding cells together are convectors . from vibration insulation plastic can ruboff causing shorts. its better use plastic holders for cell palacement . they keep some distance between cells and holds whole assembly better than just hot glue. Additionaly is good to use per cell fuse system - but even that won`t guaranty that will not have fire . these measures only reduce probability of fire. Some anufactures are cutting corners to reduce costs to make their product more available .
Ever since i learned about dendrites and exploding li-ion batteries, i've started to keep all my li-ion batteries, and electronics using those, in concrete boxes.
@@aaron___6014 Friend works at a construction company. A small lidless box of about 100 kilos was unusable and considered trash. Asked if we could have it. Trailered it and lifted it into my home.
I bought a 150kg/330lb concrete planter of reasonable weight and size, useful amount of space, but not unwieldy. Had it put on the trailer by hardware & garden store employees with a forklift, and then a friend helped me to carry it into my home. We bought some 'moving straps' used by movers, making it pretty easy to move around without straining the back. I'm going to buy cement board for bulkheads to isolate and insulate the devices and batteries from any other that would fail and catch fire. Don't want a single one to catch the whole pile on fire.
I'm wondering whether you've experienced any fires relating to Electric Mowers? I'm in Australia, and bought what I thought was a quality Mower (made in USA, America). Until the 5kW battery died at 14 months. It would charge - took as long as if it was depleted, and then work for only 90 seconds. Fortunately replaced under warranty. A friend with the same brand of mower is now on his 3rd battery in just over 5yrs. My "new" battery is now 2yrs old and not performing as well as it did new (if it hits a thick patch of grass briefly, it doesn't stall, but the capacity indicator lights rapidly drops). But, this experience now has me a bit concerned about whether they fail - like explode or catch fire. I don't have any options other than charging inside. If this battery fails, I'll toss the mower and get a proper Petrol (Gasoline) replacement. Despite the battery one being almost $1000!!!
@@StacheDTrainingthanks, Patrick - I might rethink my charging & do it outside till the EG* battery dies. I counted about 20 Li-ION batteries in various sizes - 4 laptops, 3 phones, 2 vacuums, & small ones in MP3 players, remote controls - but they're all considerably smaller than the MOWER batteries (I remembered there is a smaller 2kW on the Brushcutter, but it's almost dead now only 5 yrs old). I did have a Gen4 PRIUS, but it had a NiMH battery - got a "normal" car now. Thanks.
@@charlesward8196 absolutely!! My last ICE one lasted that long, but needed an ignition module, 4 new wheel$, blade plate and new catcher (etc) - ie, end of life. And I really needed to move to Self Propelled. So bought the EM (electric mower). Dumb idea. Yes, works well on well groomed lawn, but if the summer weather lands a week of wet days, it doesn't handle the thicker growth like the old B&S engine did. 3 charges to mow the lawn.
@@alanclarkeau After 23 years I have replaced all four of the wheels once, a set of idler rollers for the drive belt, replaced the grass-catcher bag once, and need to again, replaced the priming bulb, and replaced the blade at least once. And just last month I experienced a problem with a worn aluminium guide ferrule on the recoil starter that was cutting the starting rope. There was no replacement for that so I drilled out the bad ferrule, stuck a 5/16” x 3/4“ (8 mm x 20mm?) bolt in the 60+ year old Craftsman Model 101 lathe, drilled a 4 mm hole down the center, smoothed everything off nicely, and installed it where the old ferrule had been drilled out. I ran the cord through the STEEL bolt, it works like charm, and now it’s going to outlast ME! My late father was an aircraft mechanic and taught my brothers and I how to fix things, from basic plumbing, and electrical work, soldering electronics, brazing, gas welding, and basic machinist work. I bless him and miss him every day. I paid $1000.00 US for the lathe, have another $800 in accessories and tooling, and it has MORE than paid for itself, fixing things around the house. It just saved me $400.00 on a new mower…….
Connecting batteries directly in parallel is a bad idea. The current may not divide equally because the cells have slightly different voltages. Using a small resistance at each battery connection will even the current. You loose a small fraction of a volt but it may keep your car or your house from burning down. These DIY battery packs are very risky.
Will you make a dedicated video for combustion engine fuel tanks. I would be really interested what happens inside a fuel tank once the car is on fire. There is a loot of talks about explosions, however barelly any footage is seen, and on my end it looks possible that even in a burned out vehicle fuel still could be preserved in the fuel tank.
They are not "failing at an alarming rate", rather there's too many of them and they are not built very well, also not taken care of properly. I bet the number of fires is comparable to (much lower than) gas scooter fires. Cylindrical cells are the safest kind of Li-ion cells, but personally I'd also buy them from a reputable manufacturer, like Panasonic, Samsung or LG. I've been taking apart a lot of power banks lately, the cheapest kind from China, you'd be amazed what sheet cells they put in... some are third/fourth life batteries, others just dummy cells filled with sand...
This is a huge issue in mainland China. There are vast amount of scooters on the streets. Because of their large numbers and Lithium-Ion batteries being easily available on Chinese market, conversion shops sprung overnight. What they do is taking a ICE scooter and converting it to electric by swapping the engine with batteries & electric motor. And now China is engulfed in thermal runaways by large numbers of electric scooters. Shops that perform this kind of conversions are not highly skilled anyway.
Lithium battery technology goes back to the 1970's, there was a reason consumers weren't allowed access to it. I'd be surprised if they were actually modifying the battery or charging system.
How do you know they modified anything? Did you come up with it yourself??? There are hundreds of videos that those things thermal runaway on their own.
Interesting how power tools from major brands like Red, Yellow, Teal, Orange, Green and Blue all use the same Li-ION cells in their battery packs. Those battery powered tools take a beating on the job site but we don't hear about those battery packs just suddenly bursting into flames when charging or otherwise. Could it have anything to do with the lack of REAL regulation and nonexistent quality control and safety certification?
Those packs will absolutely fail when abused, and there are many cases of it happening. It's not recommended to charge these unattended. Many people will leave them on the charger indefinitely (myself included sometimes). th-cam.com/video/rvdb1ce7hGo/w-d-xo.html
@@StacheDTraining My raging OCD and knowledge of all things powered by and containing trapped angry pixies and the magic smoke prevent me from leaving these things on a charger unattended barring a quick run to the washroom. There is no way I would ever leave these batteries charging if I went to bed, I wouldn't be able to sleep thinking about everything that could go wrong but probably wouldn't. Heck, I won't even charge my phone on rapid charging for more than 21 minutes to keep the heat build up to a minimum. I also avoid, as often as possible, charging beyond 85% capacity. That greatly increases the battery's lifespan which is a bonus side effect at no extra charge... pardon the pun. 😅
Q: Could it have anything to do with the lack of REAL regulation and nonexistent quality control and safety certification? A: yes. for there is the Business act of taking the time to perform full QC...? and then there is the Business act of "flipping the bird" to QC (looking at you Boeing). this seems to have been "Root Cause" behind the Samsung Note 7 failures. few will likely have been paying close attention back in 2016 when all this went down, but the mighty APPLE CORP were the one's to eventually call them out on their lax process.
We need to gain a better understanding of whether these especially challenging incidents are more common in mobility devices than other Li-ion powered products and why.
In my opinion escooters are especially hazardous, as they are often cheap, so the quality is lower, and the battery pack is more vulnerable to damage. You are literally standing on the pack, causing torsional stress, plus it is more likely to be struck by kerbs, potholes, etc, or sustain fall damage when folded & being carried around. They can get a lot of abuse in daily use, with owners usually unaware of the consequences.
@@StacheDTraining well that is rather blatantly false. ICEVs catch fire 30x more often than BEVs so you would need to compare the 3% worst ICEV fires to the typical BEV fire. Sure, the hazards for individual fires are different between ICEVs and BEVs, but you seem determined to create a false impression that BEVs present a greater hazard when they don’t. Even when it comes to house fires, flammable liquids are a top 10 cause of house fires. But you only seem concerned with battery fires which like with cars, are simply not a significant cause of house fires. Gas vs EV Fires [2023 Findings] - AutoinsuranceEZ 10 Most Common Causes of U.S. House Fires - 380 Companies Disaster Services
@williammeek4078 you misunderstand the concept of risk vs frequency. It's like saying why do we talk about structure fires all the time when all we go on is fire alarms. Also, the data you mentioned is inaccurate and outdated. The EZinsurance data is from 2018.
@@StacheDTraining You are misleading people on the concept of risk vs frequency. By not talking about how infrequent battery fires are, you are contrary to all data, getting people to wrongly believe their ICEs are safer. More false claims. No the AutoinsuranceEZ data includes from 2021. Something you would know if you looked at it. And there are multiple sources backing up that BEVs are a far lower fire risk. Report: EVs Less Likely to Catch Fire Than Gas-Powered Cars - Kelly Bluebook “Australia’s Department of Defence researched the same question and found that “there was a 0.0012% chance of a passenger electric vehicle battery catching fire, compared with a 0.1% chance for internal combustion engine cars.” So the question becomes, why are you intentionally greatly exaggerating the danger of electric vehicle fire?
This is shocking. You would have thought they would have sprinklers or at least a fire alarm. It should be the law for any facility selling or upgrading electric vehicles whatever they may be. Devastating. These fires get little to no press here in the UK, so there is very little awareness of the hazards. A couple died in a burning car over last weekend. Went through a large puddle causing all doors and windows to lock. Was mentioned once on BBC news. Now no information can be found. This can be normal if there is an ongoing investigation that involves death. EV drivers really need some type of awareness course because there are manual ways to get out of an EV, or most EV`s. Maybe it could have saved them but according to witnesses, the car just filled with black smoke before thermal runaway. Dangerous
As a fire investigator and a Code enforcement officer of nearly 20 years, its nothing new. That's what happens when modifications are made when not properly regulated. Just look at the food truck industry, many people don't realize how many injuries and deaths have occurred from the modifications made from DIYers.
The culprit is Lithium batteries, not mobility scooters. Anything fitted with Li batteries is a disaster waiting to happen. Here in Melbourne Australia an entire golf club burned to the ground when a golf buggy that had been converted to Lithium battery blew up while charging. It set off nearby carts and batteries too. In England an entire car park burned and collapsed when a lithium battery in a vehicle (a hybrid Land Rover) blew up. There are countless examples of this; I'd say it won't be long before no insurance company will cover property where a Li battery is located.
I caught one of my nephews charging his e-scooter over night in the entrance hall of my sister's house. I was shocked, had to watch out not to shout at the little guy. Five people would have been in deadly danger had the thing combusted. We fixed up a place in the garden to charge his scooter, if it combusts there only the scooter will be lost. Seriously, people need to be better educated on the risks and dangers these EVs represent. Never charge these things unattended indoors!
Sadly, almost impossible. Laptops - my 17 yr old ASUS still works fine (used a few times a week). You can't buy a laptop without Li-ION, nor MP3 player, Vacuum cleaner. Your car's Remote Control - plus some other remotes will have Li-ION batteries.
@@alanclarkeau My Dell laptop is old enough to have a NiMH battery as do all my power tools. Yes they are heavier for the same power capacity, but at least I don't have to worry about them turning into incendiary devices while on charge or in use.
There's just one thing I do not understand. Being more akin to a military grade incendiary device how was lithium batteries ever allowed on the public market? There are things that is not as as dangerous as lithium batteries are that is outlawed and banned. I'm surprised it hasn't been a news story yet about where someone used a lithium battery as a fire bomb. And I in fact I bet it has happened no one just recognize it for what it was. I mean an arson investigator would never recognize a lithium battery accident as a torch job. I feel really sorry for these people in the video they've lost everything just because of stupid battery pack. We have to find a replacement for lithium batteries and get rid of all lithium batteries before we burn the planet down.
This happened in my street three times. Same house every time. The final time the house was totalled. Some people learn slow
I used to design battery management systems for large format Li-Ion batteries. I made absolutely sure that the temperature and voltage of each individual cell was monitored and opened the contactors well before any cell got into trouble. These small batteries only monitor the overall battery voltage and overall temperature and have no contactors for protection. If only one cell is out of spec or is replaced with a cell that is at a higher state of charge than the rest of the cells, you've built an improvised explosive device! That single high cell will become dangerously overcharged and will burst into flames before the charger shuts down.
Yep, there's a whole unregulated cottage industry in the UK of people tinkering with & refurbishing ebike & escooter batteries/motors/chargers. I know three live within 5 miles of me, none of whom have had any training, & they are busy, plenty of work. So this is only going to get worse.
You mean a burn down the cottage industry mate.
so much for reusing them to be green. just make more like a Styrofoam cup, "zero emissions" for these plastic bags of a product. :(
@@ts757arse you need to load test the cell to measure real capacity, then you need to match the cell by capacity and voltage, so you have a properly balanced pack, then you need to slow charge and balance the pack, and any BMS that is put on must have active balancing, do this and set to never charge over 80% and never allow discharge below 20% you will have a very safe long lasting battery. Problem is you need to buy some basic tools for this and well, we all know how fly by nighters work!
damn sounded like gunshots going off, that was extreme!
Great video mate thanks for sharing. We had fire in an e-bike warehouse here in South Western Sydney Australia which was causing by a lithium ion battery not long back which burned the warehouse to the ground. I find it astonishing that these kind of batteries haven’t been banned worldwide as we all know how dangerous they are and how much they can damage the environment all throughout their construction through to their usage and the fact that they have the potential to become a toxic bomb at any time from accidents to human error and stupidity.
I wrote to my MP to express such concerns. No reply!
@@oldgrumpus8523 it really isn’t a surprise to me I reckon there’s way too many big companies who own way to many politicians and bureaucrats these days.
I’m hooked to your channel after finding it today but now I’m rethinking all the lithium battery banks and my homemade backup system. I hope Renogy Bluetti Bougerv Power Queen and Ecoflow have rigorous standards😂🎉
I have an ecoflow pro. My biggest concern is containment in the case of thermal runaway.
I think I get it now.
instead of being able to fix your stuff, you have to reproduce that item, which means repurchase, which means retax repairing. because reusing things forever slows down the economy.
Wonder how many of those micro-mobility devices are caused by people buying off-brand or forged batteries, BMSes and chargers from non-official sources because the real stuff has excessive markups or isn't available through official retail channels at all. The manufacturing cost of lithium cells is down to about $100/kWh but official replacement batteries for most stuff is $500+/kWh, makes re-packing battery packs with "better" cells sound like a great idea.
I've ditched my lithium motorcycle battery after seeing a Ducati burn to the ground with a lithium battery.
I'm even charging my power tool batteries on the driveway now.
Thanks for the heads up on these things.
Thanks, this graphic seen of destruction is important viewing for anyone considering making or modding Li-ion battery packs. I only buy quality Korean or Japanese cells where the manufacturing standards are very high, but you still have to ensure they charge in a controlled manner using the right monitoring boards and charger setups. And it's certainly wise to be present and in a room with multiple exits during their charging and use.
So much sustainability.
Yes, the fires are self sustaining.😮
Behave, they're, 'saving' the planet... apparently.
Wait until the backyard mechanics start in on the electric cars. Those panels that say DO NOT OPEN HIGH VOLTAGE will be much tempting. There’s going to be a lot of EVs on the used market soon without any warranty so it’s only a matter of time until things get interesting.
As I've posted a couple of times, I have the habit of connecting devices to their chargers only if I am present.
Sadly they are the core of my homes power system but why I installed sprinklers!
It is a dress rehearsal of underground parking for condominiums in a few years.
Good times create careless mankind.
An e-bike caught fire on the subway in Toronto. The viddy looked like fun for all!
So why have they not been banned yet? We used to have health and safety legislation.
It must be a concern for people living in older apartment blocks with timber floors and joists. Is your neighbour beneath charging their device indoors.
It's a concern that e-scooters, e-bikes, and so on are being 'custom built' for sale by people in kitchens, sheds and garages all over the world.
These so-called experts may well know a bit about electrics, electronics, and have the best of intentions - i.e. to get their neighbourhood mobile with cheap(-ish) mini electric vehicles - but the fact is that, whilst 100% of these suppliers consider themselves to be brilliant craftsmen fully capable of handling the tech involved, many of them won't have got a clue about potential drawbacks (or will choose to ignore the tricky stuff in order to secure sales), and selling their 'improved performance' whizzy toys is more important than making them safe.
There's a tendency in the West to dismiss small-scale Chinese manufacturers who churn out poorly built electrical products without any kind of testing or warranty, but there are dozens of e-mobility entrepreneurs in the West doing exactly what they ridicule the Chinese for.
I live in the north of England (West Yorkshire) and there's a new trend for drug dealers to zip around on e-scooters ("The cops will never catch you..." is the builders' proud boast); the machines are thoroughly illegal, having massive batteries, huge performance and obviously zero safety features.
What are the chances that they're built to a good standard? Who's making them? What else is he making and selling? You can be pretty sure that he's not a qualified electrical engineer.
Even for honest, humble, genuinely caring builders of relatively safe, legal machines, there's a vast lack of knowledge. Just wanting to help peeps to go green and 'to do some good' isn't enough. You've got to know what you're doing.
Following 'how to' guides online isn't the answer. The people posting the information may be equally idealistic, equally unqualified, and not have any more of an idea about what's what than the guy trying to find out how to wire a 'smart' battery charger for his non-standard power packs.
And when was the last time you heard a guy with an interest in cars or motors or bikes or guns use the words, "I don't know"? When was the last time YOU bought a new bit of kit and actually read the handbook or operating manual all the way through? Be honest!😁
It's worrying that there are guys who will sell you a souped-up e-bike or e-scooter with the assurance that it's built to the highest standards...
But what do you really know about his skills? Where did he get his battery cells from? Are they brand new and perfect or salvaged from crashed and scrapped EVs? Is the charger reliably failsafe? How good are the soldered connections? How were the pack terminals spot-welded? Did the cells overheat? No? How do you know?
Owning one of these machines could be perfectly safe. It could indeed have been designed and built by a genuine expert from excellent materials.
Or... it could be a bomb waiting to go off in your garage. Or your neighbour's adjoining shed. Or in the kitchen of the guy renting the flat below you. You just never know.
I was taught by Bosch E - Bike training course that when charging a lithium battery the charger should always be plugged into a PowerPoint with a timer set to switch off outside of working bike shop hours just in case.
The outdoor security video is straight out of a Bugs Bunny cartoon.
They thought they knew what they were doing.
yup and it seems with each new fire video, we always hear some in the comments saying how they do X, Y, and Z and they're the ones who do "everything right", so the PARADOX CONTINUES.
that why you should not build your battery pack like in 0:29 . while chargirg or discharging cells may worm a bit , and only thing holding cells together are convectors . from vibration insulation plastic can ruboff causing shorts. its better use plastic holders for cell palacement . they keep some distance between cells and holds whole assembly better than just hot glue. Additionaly is good to use per cell fuse system -
but even that won`t guaranty that will not have fire . these measures only reduce probability of fire. Some anufactures are cutting corners to reduce costs to make their product more available .
Ever since i learned about dendrites and exploding li-ion batteries,
i've started to keep all my li-ion batteries, and electronics using those, in concrete boxes.
Where did you find a concrete box that's easy to move?
He didn’t say they were easy to move, also I think he’s building little b*mbs.
@@aaron___6014 Friend works at a construction company.
A small lidless box of about 100 kilos was unusable and considered trash.
Asked if we could have it.
Trailered it and lifted it into my home.
I bought a 150kg/330lb concrete planter of reasonable weight and size, useful amount of space, but not unwieldy.
Had it put on the trailer by hardware & garden store employees with a forklift, and then a friend helped me to carry it into my home.
We bought some 'moving straps' used by movers, making it pretty easy to move around without straining the back.
I'm going to buy cement board for bulkheads to isolate and insulate the devices and batteries from any other that would fail and catch fire.
Don't want a single one to catch the whole pile on fire.
Not surprised at all.
damn, sounds like gunfire too... If the neighbors are trigger happy, you might survive the battery fire but not the gunshots haha
I'm wondering whether you've experienced any fires relating to Electric Mowers?
I'm in Australia, and bought what I thought was a quality Mower (made in USA, America). Until the 5kW battery died at 14 months. It would charge - took as long as if it was depleted, and then work for only 90 seconds. Fortunately replaced under warranty.
A friend with the same brand of mower is now on his 3rd battery in just over 5yrs. My "new" battery is now 2yrs old and not performing as well as it did new (if it hits a thick patch of grass briefly, it doesn't stall, but the capacity indicator lights rapidly drops).
But, this experience now has me a bit concerned about whether they fail - like explode or catch fire.
I don't have any options other than charging inside.
If this battery fails, I'll toss the mower and get a proper Petrol (Gasoline) replacement. Despite the battery one being almost $1000!!!
I've seen a few accounts of battery operated mower fires.
@@StacheDTrainingthanks, Patrick - I might rethink my charging & do it outside till the EG* battery dies.
I counted about 20 Li-ION batteries in various sizes - 4 laptops, 3 phones, 2 vacuums, & small ones in MP3 players, remote controls - but they're all considerably smaller than the MOWER batteries (I remembered there is a smaller 2kW on the Brushcutter, but it's almost dead now only 5 yrs old).
I did have a Gen4 PRIUS, but it had a NiMH battery - got a "normal" car now.
Thanks.
My ICE mower is going on 23 years old. Works the same as it did on Day One.
@@charlesward8196 absolutely!! My last ICE one lasted that long, but needed an ignition module, 4 new wheel$, blade plate and new catcher (etc) - ie, end of life. And I really needed to move to Self Propelled.
So bought the EM (electric mower). Dumb idea. Yes, works well on well groomed lawn, but if the summer weather lands a week of wet days, it doesn't handle the thicker growth like the old B&S engine did. 3 charges to mow the lawn.
@@alanclarkeau After 23 years I have replaced all four of the wheels once, a set of idler rollers for the drive belt, replaced the grass-catcher bag once, and need to again, replaced the priming bulb, and replaced the blade at least once. And just last month I experienced a problem with a worn aluminium guide ferrule on the recoil starter that was cutting the starting rope.
There was no replacement for that so I drilled out the bad ferrule, stuck a 5/16” x 3/4“ (8 mm x 20mm?) bolt in the 60+ year old Craftsman Model 101 lathe, drilled a 4 mm hole down the center, smoothed everything off nicely, and installed it where the old ferrule had been drilled out. I ran the cord through the STEEL bolt, it works like charm, and now it’s going to outlast ME!
My late father was an aircraft mechanic and taught my brothers and I how to fix things, from basic plumbing, and electrical work, soldering electronics, brazing, gas welding, and basic machinist work. I bless him and miss him every day. I paid $1000.00 US for the lathe, have another $800 in accessories and tooling, and it has MORE than paid for itself, fixing things around the house. It just saved me $400.00 on a new mower…….
Off topic but that 'stash is EPIC. I'm guessing not company issued? 😉
There are a lot of videos out of China of similar failures. Modifying e-bikes is a real hazard.
its not a hazard if you put in new, proper battery cells. You should always monitor the first few charges/discharges after modification.
Connecting batteries directly in parallel is a bad idea.
The current may not divide equally because the cells have slightly different voltages.
Using a small resistance at each battery connection will even the current.
You loose a small fraction of a volt but it may keep your car or your house from burning down.
These DIY battery packs are very risky.
Why is any of this legal?
Will you make a dedicated video for combustion engine fuel tanks.
I would be really interested what happens inside a fuel tank once the car is on fire.
There is a loot of talks about explosions, however barelly any footage is seen, and on my end it looks possible that even in a burned out vehicle fuel still could be preserved in the fuel tank.
One question is if they are altering batteries that are oem from the factory, will they be insured
Insurance typically covers stupidity.
you're the most lifelike robot i've ever seen
It's out little secret.
They are not "failing at an alarming rate", rather there's too many of them and they are not built very well, also not taken care of properly. I bet the number of fires is comparable to (much lower than) gas scooter fires.
Cylindrical cells are the safest kind of Li-ion cells, but personally I'd also buy them from a reputable manufacturer, like Panasonic, Samsung or LG.
I've been taking apart a lot of power banks lately, the cheapest kind from China, you'd be amazed what sheet cells they put in... some are third/fourth life batteries, others just dummy cells filled with sand...
'I bet the number of fires is comparable to (much lower than) gas scooter fires.'
I bet you're wrong on that one.
re: "They are not "failing at an alarming rate, rather there's too many of them and they are not built very well, also not taken care of properly..."
This is a huge issue in mainland China. There are vast amount of scooters on the streets. Because of their large numbers and Lithium-Ion batteries being easily available on Chinese market, conversion shops sprung overnight. What they do is taking a ICE scooter and converting it to electric by swapping the engine with batteries & electric motor. And now China is engulfed in thermal runaways by large numbers of electric scooters. Shops that perform this kind of conversions are not highly skilled anyway.
plus they will using poor quality Chinese cells and BMSs
1:40 a commercial business with no Central fire alarm system?! 🙄
This is common for the majority of the US. Many rural areas don't have automatic fire alarms or sprinklers.
@@StacheDTraining Yikes. I can't imagine what new FF's are facing with the...um...explosion in lithium battery fires
The product is dangerous .”Why Has These batteries been banned ?
Lithium battery technology goes back to the 1970's, there was a reason consumers weren't allowed access to it.
I'd be surprised if they were actually modifying the battery or charging system.
Dam those electric vehicles are dangerous!
How do you know they modified anything? Did you come up with it yourself???
There are hundreds of videos that those things thermal runaway on their own.
I talked to the fire investigator, the owner admitted to the modification. I started at that fire department.
You can mod with hundreds of €, and great satisfaction, a two stroke scooter and it will never flatten a building to the ground.
Shhhhhh!! Nothing to see here! Let’s just quietly move along.
Interesting how power tools from major brands like Red, Yellow, Teal, Orange, Green and Blue all use the same Li-ION cells in their battery packs. Those battery powered tools take a beating on the job site but we don't hear about those battery packs just suddenly bursting into flames when charging or otherwise. Could it have anything to do with the lack of REAL regulation and nonexistent quality control and safety certification?
Those packs will absolutely fail when abused, and there are many cases of it happening. It's not recommended to charge these unattended. Many people will leave them on the charger indefinitely (myself included sometimes). th-cam.com/video/rvdb1ce7hGo/w-d-xo.html
@@StacheDTraining My raging OCD and knowledge of all things powered by and containing trapped angry pixies and the magic smoke prevent me from leaving these things on a charger unattended barring a quick run to the washroom.
There is no way I would ever leave these batteries charging if I went to bed, I wouldn't be able to sleep thinking about everything that could go wrong but probably wouldn't. Heck, I won't even charge my phone on rapid charging for more than 21 minutes to keep the heat build up to a minimum. I also avoid, as often as possible, charging beyond 85% capacity. That greatly increases the battery's lifespan which is a bonus side effect at no extra charge... pardon the pun. 😅
@@StacheDTraining re: "Those packs will absolutely fail when abused, and there are many cases of it happening."
Q: Could it have anything to do with the lack of REAL regulation and nonexistent quality control and safety certification? A: yes. for there is the Business act of taking the time to perform full QC...? and then there is the Business act of "flipping the bird" to QC (looking at you Boeing). this seems to have been "Root Cause" behind the Samsung Note 7 failures. few will likely have been paying close attention back in 2016 when all this went down, but the mighty APPLE CORP were the one's to eventually call them out on their lax process.
4 trucks inside? Hmm
Messing about with L-ion cells/packs without knowing exactly what you’re doing is a very bad idea.
We need to gain a better understanding of whether these especially challenging incidents are more common in mobility devices than other Li-ion powered products and why.
In my opinion escooters are especially hazardous, as they are often cheap, so the quality is lower, and the battery pack is more vulnerable to damage. You are literally standing on the pack, causing torsional stress, plus it is more likely to be struck by kerbs, potholes, etc, or sustain fall damage when folded & being carried around. They can get a lot of abuse in daily use, with owners usually unaware of the consequences.
You’ll know that for breakfast the toast is ready at least…
Electric Cars?....?
We all have little time bombs in our devices. It is a bit of a concern. Especially EVs which could explode
So why don’t you ever cover fires from ICEVs and small engines?
There is little hazard when compared to devices containing large lithium-ion battery modules.
@@StacheDTraining well that is rather blatantly false. ICEVs catch fire 30x more often than BEVs so you would need to compare the 3% worst ICEV fires to the typical BEV fire. Sure, the hazards for individual fires are different between ICEVs and BEVs, but you seem determined to create a false impression that BEVs present a greater hazard when they don’t.
Even when it comes to house fires, flammable liquids are a top 10 cause of house fires. But you only seem concerned with battery fires which like with cars, are simply not a significant cause of house fires.
Gas vs EV Fires [2023 Findings] - AutoinsuranceEZ
10 Most Common Causes of U.S. House Fires - 380 Companies Disaster Services
@williammeek4078 you misunderstand the concept of risk vs frequency. It's like saying why do we talk about structure fires all the time when all we go on is fire alarms.
Also, the data you mentioned is inaccurate and outdated. The EZinsurance data is from 2018.
@@StacheDTraining You are misleading people on the concept of risk vs frequency. By not talking about how infrequent battery fires are, you are contrary to all data, getting people to wrongly believe their ICEs are safer.
More false claims. No the AutoinsuranceEZ data includes from 2021. Something you would know if you looked at it.
And there are multiple sources backing up that BEVs are a far lower fire risk.
Report: EVs Less Likely to Catch Fire Than Gas-Powered Cars - Kelly Bluebook
“Australia’s Department of Defence researched the same question and found that “there was a 0.0012% chance of a passenger electric vehicle battery catching fire, compared with a 0.1% chance for internal combustion engine cars.”
So the question becomes, why are you intentionally greatly exaggerating the danger of electric vehicle fire?
This is shocking. You would have thought they would have sprinklers or at least a fire alarm.
It should be the law for any facility selling or upgrading electric vehicles whatever they may be. Devastating.
These fires get little to no press here in the UK, so there is very little awareness of the hazards.
A couple died in a burning car over last weekend. Went through a large puddle causing all doors and windows to lock. Was mentioned once on BBC news. Now no information can be found. This can be normal if there is an ongoing investigation that involves death. EV drivers really need some type of awareness course because there are manual ways to get out of an EV, or most EV`s.
Maybe it could have saved them but according to witnesses, the car just filled with black smoke before thermal runaway. Dangerous
And if you leave battery charging attended and they cough fire what would you do? As usual everyone is giving useless advises. Negative!
DropComment &ThumbUp 4AIgosAll
Ain't it great. I love EV failure content
Why are these batteries legal?
No sympathy for the business, you don't mess with lithium batteries, and leaving them unattended and on charge is just stupid.
But they also can combust when battery's NOT modified too😬😱😬
Very true
As a fire investigator and a Code enforcement officer of nearly 20 years, its nothing new. That's what happens when modifications are made when not properly regulated. Just look at the food truck industry, many people don't realize how many injuries and deaths have occurred from the modifications made from DIYers.
The culprit is Lithium batteries, not mobility scooters. Anything fitted with Li batteries is a disaster waiting to happen. Here in Melbourne Australia an entire golf club burned to the ground when a golf buggy that had been converted to Lithium battery blew up while charging. It set off nearby carts and batteries too. In England an entire car park burned and collapsed when a lithium battery in a vehicle (a hybrid Land Rover) blew up. There are countless examples of this; I'd say it won't be long before no insurance company will cover property where a Li battery is located.
I caught one of my nephews charging his e-scooter over night in the entrance hall of my sister's house. I was shocked, had to watch out not to shout at the little guy. Five people would have been in deadly danger had the thing combusted. We fixed up a place in the garden to charge his scooter, if it combusts there only the scooter will be lost.
Seriously, people need to be better educated on the risks and dangers these EVs represent. Never charge these things unattended indoors!
Cough, EV
Ahroompf cough EV
Just say no to lithium.
Sadly, almost impossible. Laptops - my 17 yr old ASUS still works fine (used a few times a week). You can't buy a laptop without Li-ION, nor MP3 player, Vacuum cleaner. Your car's Remote Control - plus some other remotes will have Li-ION batteries.
@@alanclarkeau
My Dell laptop is old enough to have a NiMH battery as do all my power tools.
Yes they are heavier for the same power capacity, but at least I don't have to worry about them turning into incendiary devices while on charge or in use.
There's just one thing I do not understand. Being more akin to a military grade incendiary device how was lithium batteries ever allowed on the public market? There are things that is not as as dangerous as lithium batteries are that is outlawed and banned. I'm surprised it hasn't been a news story yet about where someone used a lithium battery as a fire bomb. And I in fact I bet it has happened no one just recognize it for what it was. I mean an arson investigator would never recognize a lithium battery accident as a torch job.
I feel really sorry for these people in the video they've lost everything just because of stupid battery pack. We have to find a replacement for lithium batteries and get rid of all lithium batteries before we burn the planet down.
a can of fual has about 60times the enegy of one of these batterys
Ok, we lost our whole business, but by golly we are doing our share to ward off the man-made climate disaster. Can someone explain this stupidity?