Australia already has a sign for transportation of Lithium batteries. I had no idea that other countries didn't have these signs. I would have thought safety for first responders, the driver, and the public would be paramount. As a driver, when I am carrying dangerous goods in Australia, I have to carry a folder containing the hazmat register so not only I know what to do, but I can give the folder to the first responders. You do a great job reporting in a factual way. It is educational but easy to watch. Thankyou.
That's an excellently designed placard and should be made mandatory. I would also suggest end of life batteries be transported in open topped trailers with solid walls like a shipping container and tarped over the top. This will provide a path of least resistance for any thermal runaway event to exit upwards. Would also allow easy access for first responders during the the first stages of the event to flood the inside from above.
I applaud your suggestion about a new warning plaque. The transportation of this type of hazardous material requires additional information for Responders to know quickly if its just one drum or 50 drums. I would suggest that trailers should have removable partitions to divide and isolate no more than 10 drums per section and 5 sections per trailer with 10 side vents, 2 per section, to help Responders zero in on a particular section. This needs to be seriously examined before it gets worse. Thank you Stache for calling this to our attention.
I must agree class 9 is too vague as a catch all. Short of including the UN classification number as a stop gap, there is no ready solution. Unfortunately it will take a mass fatality for this issue to break through ‘the bubble’.
I drive tractor trailer,40 years,NYC metro area,USA. I have held a hazmat endorsement,since day one. These batteries absolutely needs placards. These batteries fit aspects of four hazmat classes. 2.3 Poison Gas 4.1 Flammable Solid 4.2 Spontaneously Combustible 4.3 Dangerous when wet. 2.3 and 4.3 require placarding at ANY Amount. 4.1 and 4.2 require placarding at 1,001 lbs or more. The proposed class 10 should require placarding,for at least 1,001 lbs or more. EV's have more than 1,001 lbs of this hazardous material.
@@billysolhurok5542 I would put the weight requirement in the 250-500 pound range. It doesn't take much to be VERY hazardous. And better packing requirements for end of life batteries.
@@ffjsb Yes I believe they are very hazardous. The US Dept. of Transportation,has two different placarding requirements,based on classification,and weight of the item(s). Either 1,001 lb,or ANY Quantity.Keeps it simple. Perhaps the any quantity rule should apply. Your typical 55 gallon steel drum,must meet safety standards,and if the shipment is going on an aircraft,there are sometimes even stricter standards that must be met.They are designed for either liquid,powder,or pellets etc.They actually have a UN-United Nations certification stamp. I did air cargo at JFK in NY for 9 years.If a drum or a 5 gallon steel pail,with hazmat, even had the smallest dent,the airline would refuse the shipment. At the time,my outfit had the Phillip Morris account.We handled many 5 gallon steel pails of tobacco flavoring concentrate. These had flammable,corrosive,and toxic labels on them.Even a 55 gallon drum of spearmint or orange oil is classified as hazmat(Flammable). The 55 gallon drums are convenient for shipping used batteries,but cannot contain thermal runaway,or explosions. I have hauled Explosive 1.4 (fireworks).Explosive 1.1,1.2,1.3, is an entirely different level,and only specialized outfits even get involved,probably due to the insurance/equipment/training,etc., that is required. As our well informed,professional stated,'The rules are written in blood'. As someone who resigned from a 'Safety Man' position,(never again) I used this very point.Many just don't get it.Somehow it destroys the bottom line. This is because the risk is 'low probability'. Sadly, the risk is also 'High consequence'. Instead of the'Ounce of prevention',they continue to roll the dice against the 'Pound of Flesh'. Cheers
Just delivered lithium ion batteries to a Hyundai warehouse in Alabama. Still had my useless class 9 placards. I love this idea. This needs to be implemented for sure.
How in the name of someone holey did no authority raise their hand and say "Wait a minute we have knowledge of large fires involving LIO batteries and it might not be a great idea to stack them in large amounts in sealed containers".
I still can't believe that throwing them in a drum is the current solution. I am no expert on lithium ion batteries, but I do have enough experience to be very concerned about their structural integrity. (Especially at the bottom) The fact that lithium ion batteries are as old as they are but we don't have any real solutions still is concerning. I definitely think placards are a good starting point. Although I feel we're going to need a lot of different regulations and codes.
As a part time dry bulk driver, i shudder to think im parked at night sleeping next to these bombs. There should not only be a placard but an entire shipping regimen for these. The rest of us dont deserve to be put in danger due to fear of the temperature going up 1 degree
Always thought provoking. You have to wonder why everyone is so blasé about lithium ion batteries. Our local recycling centre does not seperate lithium ion from the standard zinc, alkaline types or even the nickel hydride / cadmium ones. They do separate lead acid batteries.... Needless to say it's only a matter of time until one of these recycling centres goes up in flames. The sooner battery technology evolves away from Li-on to a safer and more inert type, the better.
re: "You have to wonder why everyone is so blasé about lithium ion batteries." simple, people don't know. re: "it's only a matter of time until one of these recycling centres goes up in flames." go into the archive and watch the last 2 videos about the recycling center on the news in Missouri. re: "The sooner battery technology evolves away from Li-on to a safer and more inert type, the better." which first PRESUMES that such a technology even exists and that Mankind is not "bumping against the hard wall of reality" known as the LAW OF DIMINISHING RETURNS (hint: we are).
Great idea. These could be mass produced at little cost. I would also recommend packing old lithium-ion batteries in separate boxes with this sign on top as a reminder. A pdf version would be nice so every consumer, employee or trucker out there can put it up at little cost if they know what's inside.
I have worked in the transportation field for 25 years, on the railroad and trucking sides, and I agree that we need a Class 10 Placard and training on it.
Like those batteries I'm at the end of life but I love your new class 10 placard. I fear one of the reasons for why we don't have something like that is because we might have to put them on the electric semi trucks from the danger. And then someone will want it put on all electric vehicles.
Even Alkaline batteries can be a hazard. Our daughter in law had an AA battery loose in her purse when it managed to short itself out with some metal coins. Our grandson told her her purse was on fire as they were in a checkout line. She dumped the purse and the AA battery was smoking. I too had this happen years ago with a AA battery in a pocket with some coins. So imagine what fun a pile of loose lithium batteries can be if they manage to shift around til a connection is made to short out one or more of the batteries.
Have you considered trying to setup one of those petition things such that people can sign a petition to make the proposed battery hazard placards mandatory?
I definitely don’t have the answers but there definitely needs to be better safety precautions and fire fighting methods put into place. So many people bad mouth fire fighters. They don’t control how buildings are built or how materials are moved or stored. They can only fight fires with the tools and training they receive.
@StacheDTraining Thanks. Didn't know. BTW: great video and analysis. I agree that this becomes more and more urgent, with every silly gadget with Li batteries coming from China every day.
Will this sign you created 🤔 be on business thet collect all recycle ♻️ these batteries??.thank you for helping the first responders and fire fitters to be more safe 🙏
None of this ever happened,, well at least from Govt and lesser extent the media. EVs and their components are totally blameless and they never catch fire or explode. As for marking what those dangerous goods are that would be admitting they are dangerous!!
The cost of shipping batteries for recycling or disposal will be going up 3-5X if it all has to be shipped as restricted explosive toxic waste with all related training, permitting, certifying/licensing, etc.
Lithium batteries require no truck placards. This is just another loophole to promote electric cars. Batteries should be treated like radioactive waste.
re: "Batteries should be treated like radioactive waste." yup, so this means we've gotta embrace a philosophy of WCS (Worst Case Scenario). which is to say treat them either like by-products of Nuclear Chemistry...? or 'MUNITIONS...? pick one and then act in accordance with their respective Safety Protocols, and there's a good chance you'll be all set.
Uhh, don't you know the new administration will be dismantling the EPA to enable big companies to do what they want now? Musk in charge of ' cutting red tape'. Say goodbye to the clean air act.
Observations of a 30yr time served whole time Firefighter and 10yr Fire, Health and Safety Officer for an international Retail organisation. The use of disc cutters of any description have to be forbidden when dealing with these suspected lithium battery cargoes as a means to gain entry. Any substantial Risk assessment would suggest not to use hot spark generating equipment in the way these videos demonstrate. I valued the lives of my crews over the risk of causing an uncontrolled explosion, and would be looking for different tool sets to gain entry. If this was an explosive gas leak inside a building the mind set would be completely different, and every attempt to limit the risk of a spark induced gas explosion would be made. So why not a closed container full of an explosive gas? The sight of those guys standing on top of the rail container was for me an unnecessary risk. Had the adjacent container or the one they were cutting into exploded they would probably be killed or very seriously injured.
I’m still thinking that moving the batteries in water has merit. The water would cool the surrounding batteries if one decided to go into thermal runaway. It would work to discharge the batteries getting them to lower energy states. Any drum lid would need a rupture disc to provide pressure relief.
Sorry to sound negative, but I think the very thing that makes lithium batteries a useful source of power - their high energy density - would present a problem. You'd need a LOT of water to control any thermal event. Unless each battery cluster had hundreds of gallons of water around it, the energy release would flash it into steam almost immediately, having little cooling or heat-moderating effect. Small batteries (phone and laptop) are flat and would tend to clump together when submerged, and the high surface area of a lot of them would be the optimum arrangement for boiling a lot of water quickly. It gets worse. The problem with using a lot of water for each large (i.e. car-sized) battery pack is the bulk/mass of each container. It'd be huge. No trucking company will want to carry just 2 or 3 Tesla units per trailer; they'd try to cram in 20 or 30, leaving no room for a useful amount of water.
Q: A placard is a great idea but why not research and develop batteries that don't do this? A: wait can't we do both...? 🙂 # MULTI-TASKING again for the record (and i can't stress this enough) something everyone needs to be aware of is the MYTH OF PROGRESS. this is to say the History of Technological Development is NOT a "fairytale" where certain things are achieved and people live "happily ever after". thus the general disclaimer found in Investing also applies to Science: "Past Achievements Are Not A Guarantee Of Future Success"... no, when it comes to the Electron Chemistry (which is the specific field of Science we're dealing with here) just because we egotistical Human Beings get some "grand" and "wonderful" idea in our heads (for an end-game of later being able to fly around the Earth calling ourselves a "genius") it does NOT mean the Periodic Table has any interest in accommodating us. unfortunately this "accommodation" is really what has to happen FIRST at the Atomic Level before we can declare success... yeah, this is the little understood scam happening behind the scenes with the development of Solid State Batteries. while i sincerely hope they do happen...? the chances of Mankind one day getting a safe, low cost, mass produceable product are actually no better than 50% (in reality the odds are worse than what). however take notice that what's happening in the meantime, and that's "the flow rate of cash" INTO the business is 100% (OMG)... see as long as everyone's paycheck clears come Friday...? many of those researchers who you've been convinced are so "noble" and "intrepid" don't really care if we EVER get a working Solid State Battery. with that said, you can bet they sure as hell aren't motivated then by the ideas of Saving The Environment or keeping Fire Fighters safe either.
Lithium ion batteries on their own are UN3480. Put DDR/EOL batteries under this umbrella and mandate displaying this number along with the existing class 9 placard should suffice, as the 3480 alone should indicate what hell and high water might come.
Is this a recycler problem or a carrier problem, and can either one refuse handling or transport? Better hazard prevention now than lives and limbs traded for guaranteed (NOT!) litigious awards. What about a sort of thermal sandbox facility? Small, though. Truckers need some protections so special containments. The future of lithium seems to involve plenty of diesel.
I’m very concerned about mixing passengers and EVs on large passenger ferries. My family regularly travel on the TT Line Spirit of Tasmania 1 & 2 from Geelong Victoria Australia across Bass Straight to Devonport Tasmania. This is usually an overnight trip in rough seas and it takes about 11 hours. There are 10 levels on these ships. Levels 1 to 6 accommodate all types of vehicles from motor cycles to large semi trailers, caravans and of course mostly cars, some of which are EVs. Levels 7 and 8 are cabins and passenger areas, levels 9 and 10 are public areas for dining and entertainment. I have asked the TT Line several times what steps are being taken to prevent a disaster at sea should one of the EVs catch fire. They keep fobbing me off with platitudes such as “we are fully trained and we have the best equipment” however they still allow EVs on board knowing full well that should one catch fire the consequences will more than likely lead to a catastrophic disaster, loss of life and maybe even the total loss of the vessel and its cargo. No port will accept a burning ship. The toxic gasses, smoke and rising heat will probably kill everyone on board before the ship can reach port. Life boats may be an answer, but access to them will be limited and compromised by smoke, flames, systems failures and totally dependant on which side of the ship is on fire. Even if the passengers are successfully off loaded into lifeboats, I worry that survival will be compromised by stormy seas, darkness, panic, cold weather and the long distance from port. This problem needs urgent addressing in all similar ferries around the world, and I strongly suggest that all EVs should be banned from passenger ferries, and all EVs be transported on dedicated cargo ships with only a crew on board. I am hoping that you can help to solve this problem. Thanks for your show, I follow you and you are very good. PS. Some of the large semi trailers may well be carrying old or defective LI batteries, and this presents an explosion issue as well. Who knows what’s in some of those trucks ? Roger M.
What's with fedex and exploding trailers? it's almost as if someone is trying to destroy fedex from the inside out by accepting to tranport these loads or by someone outside offering fedex lower prices...
Petition D.O.T. to get the Minimum Reportable Quantity reduced so that Placards have to used externally. If I remember correctly you can haul 1,000lbs of Lithium Batteries before you have to place External Placards.
one needs to UNderStand The Problem FIRST... It Being,the industry controls the legislator 'legaly', It Would Seem The Legislator Is ,Through Commerce Law/Tort Unable To Even Acknowledge This Pressing-Life Threatening Situation. Commerce Can Take Governments To ARBITRATION Court Are Sue For Loss Of Trade... Without We KNOWING.
It seems like E-bikes and EVs are too fragile and dangerous for their own good. One of our sons was hit head on by a drunk driver. His car exploded, but miraculously he was able to get right out. If it had been an EV, it sounds like the fumes would have certainly killed him. Perhaps we, as a society, should rethink our use of Lithium batteries.
You identify problems. That makes you great. You come up with ideas for safety solutions. That makes you a one of a kind, brilliant man imho.
Australia already has a sign for transportation of Lithium batteries. I had no idea that other countries didn't have these signs.
I would have thought safety for first responders, the driver, and the public would be paramount.
As a driver, when I am carrying dangerous goods in Australia, I have to carry a folder containing the hazmat register so not only I know what to do, but I can give the folder to the first responders.
You do a great job reporting in a factual way. It is educational but easy to watch. Thankyou.
We have this in Canada as well.
That's a great idea
Placards are already required for Haz-Mat in the U.S.; just look up the FMCSR section that covers Haz-Mat.
I like your placard idea.
That's an excellently designed placard and should be made mandatory.
I would also suggest end of life batteries be transported in open topped trailers with solid walls like a shipping container and tarped over the top. This will provide a path of least resistance for any thermal runaway event to exit upwards. Would also allow easy access for first responders during the the first stages of the event to flood the inside from above.
I agree. A Conestoga would be a great option as well.
Cars too
I applaud your suggestion about a new warning plaque. The transportation of this type of hazardous material requires additional information for Responders to know quickly if its just one drum or 50 drums. I would suggest that trailers should have removable partitions to divide and isolate no more than 10 drums per section and 5 sections per trailer with 10 side vents, 2 per section, to help Responders zero in on a particular section. This needs to be seriously examined before it gets worse. Thank you Stache for calling this to our attention.
So eco friendly... Thank you sir
Yeah the cut off saw was a bad idea, seen plenty fires started by them things. Even set fire to my own pants once 😂
Me too!
I must agree class 9 is too vague as a catch all.
Short of including the UN classification number as a stop gap, there is no ready solution.
Unfortunately it will take a mass fatality for this issue to break through ‘the bubble’.
100% we NEED a class 10 placard.
I drive tractor trailer,40 years,NYC metro area,USA.
I have held a hazmat endorsement,since day one.
These batteries absolutely needs placards.
These batteries fit aspects of four hazmat classes.
2.3 Poison Gas
4.1 Flammable Solid
4.2 Spontaneously Combustible
4.3 Dangerous when wet.
2.3 and 4.3 require placarding at ANY Amount.
4.1 and 4.2 require placarding at 1,001 lbs or more.
The proposed class 10 should require placarding,for at least 1,001 lbs or more.
EV's have more than 1,001 lbs of this hazardous material.
@@billysolhurok5542 I would put the weight requirement in the 250-500 pound range. It doesn't take much to be VERY hazardous. And better packing requirements for end of life batteries.
@@ffjsb Yes I believe they are very hazardous.
The US Dept. of Transportation,has two different placarding
requirements,based on classification,and weight of the item(s).
Either 1,001 lb,or ANY Quantity.Keeps it simple.
Perhaps the any quantity rule should apply.
Your typical 55 gallon steel drum,must meet safety standards,and if
the shipment is going on an aircraft,there are sometimes even stricter
standards that must be met.They are designed for either liquid,powder,or pellets etc.They actually have a UN-United Nations certification stamp.
I did air cargo at JFK in NY for 9 years.If a drum or a 5 gallon steel pail,with hazmat, even had the smallest dent,the airline would refuse the shipment.
At the time,my outfit had the Phillip Morris account.We handled many 5 gallon
steel pails of tobacco flavoring concentrate.
These had flammable,corrosive,and toxic labels on them.Even a 55 gallon
drum of spearmint or orange oil is classified as hazmat(Flammable).
The 55 gallon drums are convenient for shipping used batteries,but
cannot contain thermal runaway,or explosions.
I have hauled Explosive 1.4 (fireworks).Explosive 1.1,1.2,1.3, is an entirely
different level,and only specialized outfits even get involved,probably
due to the insurance/equipment/training,etc., that is required.
As our well informed,professional stated,'The rules are written in blood'.
As someone who resigned from a 'Safety Man' position,(never again)
I used this very point.Many just don't get it.Somehow it destroys
the bottom line.
This is because the risk is 'low probability'.
Sadly, the risk is also 'High consequence'.
Instead of the'Ounce of prevention',they continue to roll
the dice against the 'Pound of Flesh'.
Cheers
Great idea Patrick. DOT Class 10 placarding.
a Captain's Countdown
Could we have an indicator on the licence plate of vehicles, in Australia we had a red diamond on the plate indicating LP gas conversion.
Plaquered them as hazardous materials...reffer trailers..And a Huge huge TY to our First Responders!!!!
Just delivered lithium ion batteries to a Hyundai warehouse in Alabama. Still had my useless class 9 placards. I love this idea. This needs to be implemented for sure.
Great Video!
How in the name of someone holey did no authority raise their hand and say "Wait a minute we have knowledge of large fires involving LIO batteries and it might not be a great idea to stack them in large amounts in sealed containers".
This is only the top 5. How many others have done untold damage?
I still can't believe that throwing them in a drum is the current solution. I am no expert on lithium ion batteries, but I do have enough experience to be very concerned about their structural integrity. (Especially at the bottom) The fact that lithium ion batteries are as old as they are but we don't have any real solutions still is concerning.
I definitely think placards are a good starting point. Although I feel we're going to need a lot of different regulations and codes.
The placard is just the beginning. There are a few easy ways to fix this issue.
I'd rather be hauling plutonium than Lithium.
Pure Plutonium is actually flammable too... So, they transport it as an oxide for safety...
Well, it depends on how it's packaged, but let's just say I'd rather fight a Li ion battery fire than a plutonium fire. ;*[}
Lithium Batteries are so Dangerous for EV drivers and their families + anybody around them .
As a part time dry bulk driver, i shudder to think im parked at night sleeping next to these bombs. There should not only be a placard but an entire shipping regimen for these. The rest of us dont deserve to be put in danger due to fear of the temperature going up 1 degree
They need to add lithium to hazard material list.
The U.S. government has already added it to the Hazardest Material List. Very Dangerous to people, animals and the Environment
Always thought provoking. You have to wonder why everyone is so blasé about lithium ion batteries. Our local recycling centre does not seperate lithium ion from the standard zinc, alkaline types or even the nickel hydride / cadmium ones. They do separate lead acid batteries....
Needless to say it's only a matter of time until one of these recycling centres goes up in flames.
The sooner battery technology evolves away from Li-on to a safer and more inert type, the better.
re: "You have to wonder why everyone is so blasé about lithium ion batteries." simple, people don't know. re: "it's only a matter of time until one of these recycling centres goes up in flames." go into the archive and watch the last 2 videos about the recycling center on the news in Missouri. re: "The sooner battery technology evolves away from Li-on to a safer and more inert type, the better." which first PRESUMES that such a technology even exists and that Mankind is not "bumping against the hard wall of reality" known as the LAW OF DIMINISHING RETURNS (hint: we are).
Great idea. These could be mass produced at little cost. I would also recommend packing old lithium-ion batteries in separate boxes with this sign on top as a reminder. A pdf version would be nice so every consumer, employee or trucker out there can put it up at little cost if they know what's inside.
I have worked in the transportation field for 25 years, on the railroad and trucking sides, and I agree that we need a Class 10 Placard and training on it.
Excellent plan.
I have a bunch of battery powered hand tools in both my garage and my home, both 18v and 56v. Should I be worried about them?
Yes 🔥🔥🔥🔥🔥🔥
I really enjoy this .. pat
Thank you
Forwarded post
Like those batteries I'm at the end of life but I love your new class 10 placard.
I fear one of the reasons for why we don't have something like that is because we might have to put them on the electric semi trucks from the danger. And then someone will want it put on all electric vehicles.
My focus is end of life & DDR batteries.
@StacheDTraining I've watched a lot of your videos and stand behind everything you say but somehow I missed what DDR stands for?
@@a9ball1 Damage Defective Recalled
Thank you for taking the time to answer.
No odorant for hydrogen gas is also a big negligence.
Hydrogen isn't stored in the battery, it's released as part of the chemical reaction when the battery fails.
Even Alkaline batteries can be a hazard. Our daughter in law had an AA battery loose in her purse when it managed to short itself out with some metal coins. Our grandson told her her purse was on fire as they were in a checkout line. She dumped the purse and the AA battery was smoking. I too had this happen years ago with a AA battery in a pocket with some coins. So imagine what fun a pile of loose lithium batteries can be if they manage to shift around til a connection is made to short out one or more of the batteries.
How or where do I sign?!?! :D
LOL. Brave new world with all these environment saving devices.
Have you considered trying to setup one of those petition things such that people can sign a petition to make the proposed battery hazard placards mandatory?
I definitely don’t have the answers but there definitely needs to be better safety precautions and fire fighting methods put into place. So many people bad mouth fire fighters. They don’t control how buildings are built or how materials are moved or stored. They can only fight fires with the tools and training they receive.
Yep. A plaque could help, although not when the rear door is ripped appart due too explosion :)
Placards are required on all sides of the trailer.
@StacheDTraining Thanks. Didn't know. BTW: great video and analysis. I agree that this becomes more and more urgent, with every silly gadget with Li batteries coming from China every day.
Trump needs you as his Fire Safety advisor!
Why should this not be obvious!?!?!?!?!
Keep pushing, you could save some lives!
Red over orange should get peoples' attention.
Will this sign you created 🤔 be on business thet collect all recycle ♻️ these batteries??.thank you for helping the first responders and fire fitters to be more safe 🙏
Great idea. How do you get this past the green narrative lawmakers?
Step 1: Elect Donald Trump
Step 2: Wait for January 20, 2025
@@1225KPH We are on track!
None of this ever happened,, well at least from Govt and lesser extent the media. EVs and their components are totally blameless and they never catch fire or explode.
As for marking what those dangerous goods are that would be admitting they are dangerous!!
Yes that works.
The cost of shipping batteries for recycling or disposal will be going up 3-5X if it all has to be shipped as restricted explosive toxic waste with all related training, permitting, certifying/licensing, etc.
Lithium batteries require no truck placards. This is just another loophole to promote electric cars. Batteries should be treated like radioactive waste.
re: "Batteries should be treated like radioactive waste." yup, so this means we've gotta embrace a philosophy of WCS (Worst Case Scenario). which is to say treat them either like by-products of Nuclear Chemistry...? or 'MUNITIONS...? pick one and then act in accordance with their respective Safety Protocols, and there's a good chance you'll be all set.
Its not a battery, its a boom a bomb.
Maybe the new EPA director could ban EVs and Lithium-Ion Batteries shipping from cities using the clean air and water act.
Uhh, don't you know the new administration will be dismantling the EPA to enable big companies to do what they want now? Musk in charge of ' cutting red tape'.
Say goodbye to the clean air act.
I'm curious why FedEx is shipping these things, instead of a properly equipped transport company.
I’d say FedEx is cheaper and they have (maybe by now -had) no idea what they were dealing with 😢
Observations of a 30yr time served whole time Firefighter and 10yr Fire, Health and Safety Officer for an international Retail organisation.
The use of disc cutters of any description have to be forbidden when dealing with these suspected lithium battery cargoes as a means to gain entry. Any substantial Risk assessment would suggest not to use hot spark generating equipment in the way these videos demonstrate. I valued the lives of my crews over the risk of causing an uncontrolled explosion, and would be looking for different tool sets to gain entry. If this was an explosive gas leak inside a building the mind set would be completely different, and every attempt to limit the risk of a spark induced gas explosion would be made. So why not a closed container full of an explosive gas?
The sight of those guys standing on top of the rail container was for me an unnecessary risk. Had the adjacent container or the one they were cutting into exploded they would probably be killed or very seriously injured.
I’m still thinking that moving the batteries in water has merit. The water would cool the surrounding batteries if one decided to go into thermal runaway. It would work to discharge the batteries getting them to lower energy states.
Any drum lid would need a rupture disc to provide pressure relief.
Sorry to sound negative, but I think the very thing that makes lithium batteries a useful source of power - their high energy density - would present a problem. You'd need a LOT of water to control any thermal event. Unless each battery cluster had hundreds of gallons of water around it, the energy release would flash it into steam almost immediately, having little cooling or heat-moderating effect.
Small batteries (phone and laptop) are flat and would tend to clump together when submerged, and the high surface area of a lot of them would be the optimum arrangement for boiling a lot of water quickly.
It gets worse. The problem with using a lot of water for each large (i.e. car-sized) battery pack is the bulk/mass of each container. It'd be huge. No trucking company will want to carry just 2 or 3 Tesla units per trailer; they'd try to cram in 20 or 30, leaving no room for a useful amount of water.
@ all valid points. I’ll just point out that the current method doesn’t seem to be working.
How about a tax levy on new Li-ion batteries to pay for their end of life environmental damage?
A placard is a great idea but why not research and develop batteries that don't do this?
Even if we developed something new tomorrow, there are billions of batteries in circulation that will eventually need to be recycled.
Q: A placard is a great idea but why not research and develop batteries that don't do this? A: wait can't we do both...? 🙂 # MULTI-TASKING again for the record (and i can't stress this enough) something everyone needs to be aware of is the MYTH OF PROGRESS. this is to say the History of Technological Development is NOT a "fairytale" where certain things are achieved and people live "happily ever after". thus the general disclaimer found in Investing also applies to Science: "Past Achievements Are Not A Guarantee Of Future Success"...
no, when it comes to the Electron Chemistry (which is the specific field of Science we're dealing with here) just because we egotistical Human Beings get some "grand" and "wonderful" idea in our heads (for an end-game of later being able to fly around the Earth calling ourselves a "genius") it does NOT mean the Periodic Table has any interest in accommodating us. unfortunately this "accommodation" is really what has to happen FIRST at the Atomic Level before we can declare success...
yeah, this is the little understood scam happening behind the scenes with the development of Solid State Batteries. while i sincerely hope they do happen...? the chances of Mankind one day getting a safe, low cost, mass produceable product are actually no better than 50% (in reality the odds are worse than what). however take notice that what's happening in the meantime, and that's "the flow rate of cash" INTO the business is 100% (OMG)...
see as long as everyone's paycheck clears come Friday...? many of those researchers who you've been convinced are so "noble" and "intrepid" don't really care if we EVER get a working Solid State Battery. with that said, you can bet they sure as hell aren't motivated then by the ideas of Saving The Environment or keeping Fire Fighters safe either.
Surely this could happen in cars with all the bumpy roads and potholes. I don't think Lithium Ion batteries were designed for EV's
Lithium ion batteries on their own are UN3480. Put DDR/EOL batteries under this umbrella and mandate displaying this number along with the existing class 9 placard should suffice, as the 3480 alone should indicate what hell and high water might come.
Is this a recycler problem or a carrier problem, and can either one refuse handling or transport? Better hazard prevention now than lives and limbs traded for guaranteed (NOT!) litigious awards. What about a sort of thermal sandbox facility? Small, though. Truckers need some protections so special containments. The future of lithium seems to involve plenty of diesel.
Maybe dangerous when wet and combustible until a new class can be added?
We need no EVs.
I’m very concerned about mixing passengers and EVs on large passenger ferries. My family regularly travel on the TT Line Spirit of Tasmania 1 & 2 from Geelong Victoria Australia across Bass Straight to Devonport Tasmania. This is usually an overnight trip in rough seas and it takes about 11 hours. There are 10 levels on these ships. Levels 1 to 6 accommodate all types of vehicles from motor cycles to large semi trailers, caravans and of course mostly cars, some of which are EVs. Levels 7 and 8 are cabins and passenger areas, levels 9 and 10 are public areas for dining and entertainment. I have asked the TT Line several times what steps are being taken to prevent a disaster at sea should one of the EVs catch fire. They keep fobbing me off with platitudes such as “we are fully trained and we have the best equipment” however they still allow EVs on board knowing full well that should one catch fire the consequences will more than likely lead to a catastrophic disaster, loss of life and maybe even the total loss of the vessel and its cargo. No port will accept a burning ship. The toxic gasses, smoke and rising heat will probably kill everyone on board before the ship can reach port. Life boats may be an answer, but access to them will be limited and compromised by smoke, flames, systems failures and totally dependant on which side of the ship is on fire. Even if the passengers are successfully off loaded into lifeboats, I worry that survival will be compromised by stormy seas, darkness, panic, cold weather and the long distance from port. This problem needs urgent addressing in all similar ferries around the world, and I strongly suggest that all EVs should be banned from passenger ferries, and all EVs be transported on dedicated cargo ships with only a crew on board.
I am hoping that you can help to solve this problem. Thanks for your show, I follow you and you are very good.
PS. Some of the large semi trailers may well be carrying old or defective LI batteries, and this presents an explosion issue as well. Who knows what’s in some of those trucks ?
Roger M.
Kia (EV6?) fire First Responder POV & radio ...
U2oob: FDNY electric FDR 12
I have yet to see an ev in a fire station car park. Just saying.
Unsafe at any place and or speed. Say it like it is… they were transporting what are for all intents and purposes thermonuclear incendiary detonators.
Your hazard symbol should have an explosive effect in there
The orange indicates explosive hazards.
What's with fedex and exploding trailers? it's almost as if someone is trying to destroy fedex from the inside out by accepting to tranport these loads or by someone outside offering fedex lower prices...
Jesus!
Firefighters need portable water jets to cut through steel structures and not those circular saws.
Petition D.O.T. to get the Minimum Reportable Quantity reduced so that Placards have to used externally. If I remember correctly you can haul 1,000lbs of Lithium Batteries before you have to place External Placards.
one needs to UNderStand The Problem FIRST... It Being,the industry controls the legislator 'legaly', It Would Seem The Legislator Is ,Through Commerce Law/Tort Unable To Even Acknowledge This Pressing-Life Threatening Situation. Commerce Can Take Governments To ARBITRATION Court Are Sue For Loss Of Trade... Without We KNOWING.
Not much talk about the thousands of gallons of water and the poison in the run off. Who cleans up this chemical mess.
Imagine what we'd be seeing uf the Chinese people had free internet access. High energy density batteries are high risk.
🇺🇸😎👍🏾
No placard!
That's just wrong
Fire fighters are very brave men.
I hope you include us firefighters who are women.
@@elinor6525 People who put their lives at risk in unpredictable circumstances are all brave men or women.
But we have “baby on board’ signs
✨🚲✨ 👶❤️
Why would Federal DOT and any GO GREEN States require any placards for this dangerous material? REMEMBER, IT'S SAFE FOR THE ENVIRONMENT!!!
It seems like E-bikes and EVs are too fragile and dangerous for their own good. One of our sons was hit head on by a drunk driver. His car exploded, but miraculously he was able to get right out. If it had been an EV, it sounds like the fumes would have certainly killed him. Perhaps we, as a society, should rethink our use of Lithium batteries.
What about arsonists, is Blazestack good for us, THEM, i mean them... as well...? 😏 phew i think i got away with it...
Elonmobile slams into parked, empty Elonmobile.
U2oob: 2 dead fiery Bucks
Stooping to AI-generated thumbnails?
It’s strange all these fires are in the USA . Kinda tells us it’s a USA problem not a battery problem