Honestly I don't know, I wouldn't want to be playing the PS3 version of GTA 5 on PC in 2020. lol Besides, if they announced GTA 5 for next gen, chances are that GTA 6 just isn't coming any time soon. I get it we're all in this "gta bad" wagon but, logically thinking, it does make sense since GTA 5 is still getting updates and content.
@Lyra Heartfold no the media engine isn't included either, so graphics are emulated. Only reason I know this is because the N64 emulator calls for the media engine, so you need to remove that file from the emulator before you run it on a vita
Yep. The only thing that actually counts is putting in an old game disc or downloading a copy from my purchase history and playing without any extra additional cost. PS Now isn't backwards compatibility. Remasters aren't backwards compatibility. Selling emulated versions of old games digitally isn't backwards compatibility. Those are business opportunities Sony created for themselves by not providing backwards compatibility to its users.
Being able to play your old owned games without extra cost and running them on your console is backwards compatibility. Anything other than that is not.
While I can't speak for the entire gaming world, I'm one of those people that still play's PS1 and PS2 titles in 2020. Part of the reason why I wanted to invest in a decent gaming machine last November (2019) was so I could also emulate the PS2 games I wanted to play like Gran Turismo 4 at full speed (which my computer can do even at 4K internal resolution on PCSX2)
@@GameTimeWhy As much as it is lazy, it also makes sense. They are still business, and need to make business wise choice, not only consumer choice, and well, most people who still play ps1 and ps2 games are niche, and not the worth the time and effort to put into these.
@@hamizannaruto is not many people but Sony is the winner and has been of the console wars for a while. If Microsoft can come out with pro consumer moves then so can Sony.
He forgot the magical word called select few PS4 game titles. Never takes Sony on their word they can easily walk back and say we didn't promise. Also Xbox one is not truly Backward Compatible it doesn't play every single Xbox 360 game or original Xbox game. As for the new Xbox series take it as a grain of salt and don't expect every single Xbox One game be playable on the Xbox series.
For those who are confused as to what he means here, Jak 1, 2, and 3 were released as roms on disks with emulators as a collector bundle thing, with recreations of the original boxes just with PS4 branding. Now, Sony HAS released a list of not compatible games, none of which are their backwards compatible titles, but then again, they TECHNICALLY aren't PS4 games, they're PS2 games, so maybe they don't count it?
Backward compatibility is why I still have my old PS2 after all these years. Sony should keep that up with all generations of consoles for us old school gamers. If I ever buy a PS5, I'd like the option of playing my old games on it.
I also have kept all my old consoles to play my back catalogue; But I don’t expect Sony nor Microsoft to make a future console more expensive for everyone to keep happy the 1% of gamers like us... Now, that would be selfish. As it’s been said, it’s often requested, but infrequently used featured.
It's also why I have a PS3... some games like Tokyo Jungle were never remastered/rereleased on PS4, so lack of backwards compatibility compels me to keep it
This. My PS2 slim has put in quite a number of hours playing PS1 games, and it’s just so convenient. Having access to essentially the full libraries of both PS2 and PS1 games is a massive incentive to own one. Unfortunately, I think that era of backwards compatibility is dead. It’s just far more profitable for companies to remaster or rerelease older titles digitally and force consumers to buy the same games over and over.
@@Xilog The reason for no PS3,2,1 backwards compability on PS4 is because of the different architectures.PS1-3 have a architecture that’s developed by Sony.PS4 is x86
Sony: People say they want backward compatibility but don't use it. So we will not do it. Also Sony: Here! Pay again for these titles of old generations!
Nintendo are worse than anyine for making you pay for old titles over and over again. But no one cares about that because it's Nintendo. They have been ripping people off on their nostalgia for years and people have let them get away with it time and time again.
@@SergioWhitestone Yeah, and then SONY went ahead and wrote software emulators and resold old games they said no one wanted to play on their newer systems. They could have made the emulator available and able to use real discs that people already own.
Slight correction there mate, the VU's go dead on the PS2 when in PS1 mode, the R3000A actually contains the GTE on the PS2, the only thing the EE side does is translate GPU commands (which are handled by PGIF which is part of the SIF, this is connected to the DMA channel the GPU was on the PS1) and send them to the Graphics Synthesizer. The VU's are not used.
@@firstsurname9893 Yep! Admittedly I think that picture was relating to the PS1, for a while at least it wasn't clear if some components had been removed when changing the CPU for the PS2, but nope, that's still there lol
There is exactly the same information on the wiki, probably MVG wanted to say that GTE is emulated on VU for Slim versions of PS2, where IOP is replaced with a PowerPC-derivative processor, i.e. there is no GTE and MDEC and so on. circuits that are in the original PS1 CXD8530 processor.
@@Andorianin That is possible yes, we have experienced that slim BIOS's don't work on PCSX2 for PS1 backwards compatibility, so it's possible some sort of emulation is done on the EE/VU's instead, I hadn't considered that, but also I haven't seen any solid proof apart from some random guy on the internet saying that's the case, however that does make a small amount of sense. Certainly something worth investigating in the future though.
PS2 games ran on PS3s without trophies too, now they make shit up to sell you the same game over and over again. Im so happy to have bought a PC, so I dont have to deal with this non-sense bullshit anymore, no one is patronizing me about what games I can and cant play anymore.
@@emmettturner9452 1- PS Now is exclusive to 19 countries (My country Peru is not one of them) 2- The time your internet signal spends travelling to the server and then returning with a response adds input lag 3- The PS4 is notorious for its heavy input lag in the controller alone. Cloud Gaming makes things even worse.
yeah, unlike with xbox360 RROD, actual reason behind YLOD is still unknown so I just try to preserve my CECHA by keeping it clean and hoping for the best.
PS2 emulation was removed much before the slim model release. You said 2007 correctly, but the video shows the slim which might imply to some people that all fat models had BC.
@@GrimCitizen Yes, there were 3 revisions of the fat model. Full BC, Partial BC and non-BC. The only physical difference between non-BC and the rest are the USB ports and card reader. Most of the fat models are the non-BC ones. Full BC ones had major heating issues and it's rare to find one in good condition today.
This video was excellent! Loved the explanation about how PS2 was emulated on the PS3. I had no idea that the RAMBUS and EE were actually put on the mainboard. The EE emulation development on the PS3 PPU and all the IO tasks on the SPUs must have been one fun design task after they were removed from the PCB. Thanks for the comprehensive history and overview! Always enjoy your videos.
"EE development on the PPU"? You must have misunderstood something, because the EE is not PPU but a MIPS III/IV-Hybrid with additional custom calls/opcodes!
"It is one of those features that is much requested, but not actually used much" - I'm curious what this assumption is based on. He wouldn't know how much it is used unless it's there. If it's based on the early days of the PS3 when it had BC - that was 15 years ago. If it's based on the "PS2 classic" games from the store - it is not the type of BC people ever requested. If you have to repurchase a game you already have a disc version of, it kind of defeats the purpose and it's no surprise that people are not using it much. Especially considering those early complaints where users who purchased a PS2 Classic game on the PS3 were asked to buy them again on the PS4. That's the interesting part about the Xbox BC. All 360 games that are on the store download the store version once you pop in the disc and in order to play it, you just have to have the disc in the drive. Even more interesting is GTA San Andreas. If you put in the OG Xbox disc, it downloads the 360 version from the store. So you're playing an Xbox 360 game on the Xbox One with an Xbox disc. Aside from that version being trash, it doesn't get any more customer friendly than that.
""It is one of those features that is much requested, but not actually used much" - I'm curious what this assumption is based on." Well, considering the PS4, with zero BC outsold the XB1 which had full BC by almost three to one I'd say he's looked at the data and come to the correct conclusion that old titles don't sell consoles.
ah, so basically Microsoft already has the setup that i just 'wished for' in My Comment (ive been a bit out of touch with consoles lately-- all i have is a Switch, and that DEFINITELY isnt Backwards Compatible with any other system; only a select few games get ported up, and you Absolutely have to pay for them again)
@@stevemclovin1566 Interesting, could play a reason in why Vitas have gone up a bit. (atleast where I live) I've always wanted one and was kicking myself for selling my PSP a couple years back. Loved the homebrew scene back then and playing my the PS1 games that I physically owned. More invective to track down a Vita. They were always neat dispite the flaws.
I appreciate the care and cohesiveness you put in all your videos, documenting facts with dates, developers involved and even tests or POCs... This is the added value and the differential factor between your videos and all the similar channels on TH-cam. Thank you for your hard work.
Honestly, I got really excited when we had rumors about the PS5 being compatible with all PS consoles. When Sony denied this, all interest I had in buying the console was gone. I'll just keep playing on my PC, that can still play all the games I have ever bought.
When the PS4 was released, Sony came across as the "savior of used games" to make Microsoft and the Xbox One seem anti-consumer. It's weird when you fast forward to today and see Microsoft setting the positive example over Sony in regards to respecting your ability to play everything you ever bought from them.
If there's anything I've learned from videos about the history of consumer technologies, Sony is a company of big hits and big misses; and rarely in-between.
"no one uses backwards compatibility" was never true. They had no way to measure it prior to total saturation point for online connectivity, Crash Bandicoot games were always selling every month even on PS3 after they'd gone out of their way to try to phase out BC and they only ever started trimming it off purely to cut costs from the $599 monster. It helped the PS2 sell like crazy. They only ever stopped on PS4 because the PS3 system architecture was too ridiculous to emulate easily. Meanwhile they were trying to sell PS Now for old games while simultaneously saying no one wants old games. retro consoles sell out. retro game collections and endeavors like arcade archives seem extremely sustainable financially, and emulation outside of consoles runs rampant. Not to mention the success of remasters, remakes etc across all platforms. They then reneged on their own narrative of trying to downplay BC by supporting PS4 BC on PS5. It was always a PR narrative for the console wars and never held any water.
Which was EXTREMELY shortsighted. Imagine if they never stopped full backwards compatibility. Lol. People STILL play PS2 and PS1 games let alone PS3 games. They'd buy a PS5 just to do that IMO.
@@maxdergroe9082 rpcs3 isn't compatible with my entire collection, and requires far more power than I need in my system to render optimally. Even if I would upgrade to a 4090, there are plenty of rendering and frametime issues with a majority of the games "playable" on the emulator.
I'd be satisfied With 480p for most of my ps2 games. A couple games displayed as high as 1080i with component cables but GTA SA is near unplayable on a modern display.
I will never understand why people want to have their ps2 games stretched to 4K, unless theres a smoothing filter to smooth out jagged edges and all that blockeyness, While ai upscaling sounds cool but i can imagine how complicated that will be as it has to recognize objects to add 4K textures to it, wich not only will add delay to the games but also becomes a hit & miss situation as the ai will obviously fail recognizing objects overtimes.
You mentioned the Atari 7800 was officially the first console to have backwards compatibility, but the Atari 5200 also had it via a cartridge adapter. (Atari 5200 CX-55 cartridge adapter) The 5200 came out before the 7800.
Man, that intro track is the single most iconic piece of music that I heard on a TH-cam channel. You hear that and you instantly know that you're gonna have 10 to 15 minutes of great immersive content. Any chance you'll release the full track?
Sony constantly flip flopping on the issue is frustrating to say the least. I love playing my old games. Because they aren't filled with micro transactions and DLC. Also, there are so many I just haven't played yet that I want to.
I have a fat PS3 test unit that plays PS1, PS2, and PS3 games from any region. It also boots PS1 and PS2 backups with no modifications needed, except PS2 backups have to be authored a certain way.
How to improve backwards compatibility on newer generation --- Consistency In case of Xbox, it has the most consistent API's when it comes to game development. That's why the backwards compatibility and emulation of older titles on newer generation of Xbox always works unlike Sega, Sony, and Nintendo which always switch hardware, interfaces, and API's on every generation.
Yup with the PS3 they changed everything which is why they likely won't make PS3 backwards compatibility. Which means the only way to place PS3 games will be either on a pre owned PS3 or on an emulator but from what I've heard PS3 games are really hard to emulate.
This is why a lot of Windows games going back to the 90's still work on modern PCs with little to no modification. Same x86 architecture, and DirectX and OpenGL have maintained an impressive level backwards compatibility. It's mostly DRM issues you run into these days. Especially disc-based games from the mid-late naughties. But there's usually work arounds for those. Of course if Windows kills of support for 32-bit applications, that'll be a bit of an issue.
This is completely false. Sony uses a very consitent API throught all of its hardware and did use consistent hardware for PS1, PS2 and PSP, they only changed hardware on PS3 and PS4 (the API was still similar though). Nintendo literally overclocked the GameCube and gave you the Wii and Wii U. Sega stopped being Sega after the Genesis so no point in compating there, the Genesis did have MasterSystem hardware in it (why they didn't make the cartridges compatible without an adapter is beyond me).
I just wish Microsoft addressed whatever the licencing issues were that apparently prevent them from cracking the original Xbox library wide open. They had an excellent emulator on the Xbox 360, clearly have a far better one now. Can't even play loads of their own first party published games from back in the day like Amped or Rallisport Challenge 2.
One thing I've always appreciated about your videos is the maticulous efforts you go through to provide as much information as possible. It's presented in such a way that even (most) uninterested parties are enthralled with your presentation. Love your work! Keep it up!!!
The PS2 Software Emulator on the PS3 is a marvel of engineering, I'd really like to see you do a deep dive on how it works if possible MVG. There's a PS3 Dev wiki online with a lot of information about it, I would link it here but I think my comment would get flagged, it should show up in google.
Backward compatibility is why I still have a fat PS3 connected to my TV. It would be great if I could have a modern Playstation to play my entire physical collection, spanning the previous 4 generations. It would be amazing if I could play those games with friends over share play, like the PS2 classics on PS4.
I just wish companies would actually be supportive of backwards compatibility. One of the things that made me switch to the PC and never look back is the fact that even if I need some workarounds I'll always be able to play the games I own.
I think it's a pathetic excuse from Sony and I can't imagine anyone really caring about stupid trophies for ancient games. We just want to be able to play them without having to keep old hardware.
@@moonwhistle Well put it this way unless an old game is one that I loved back in the day, which there isn't many that I would pay for again if I already had. Then you damn right that without the trophies being added there isn't a chance I would pay again.
Seriously, what a waste of time and resources. I'm willing to bet the popular choice would be more compatible games (via disc) without trophies than fewer games with trophies.
I think most of it comes down to a Japanese video game company philosophy of not wanting to surrender a potential future revenue stream. Why let people play their old games for free when they can charge them again for a re-releases/remaster on the newer platform sometime in the future. Nintendo are the absolute worst for this, Sony are not far behind.
@Jacob S I think I'll stop gaming if there's only a microsoft monopoly in the console market or you could only play these multiplatform games on PC, there won't be nothing special anymore.
@Jacob S my favourite games and sagas are Sony games. I won't be happy being stuck with mediocre fps games and mobas for eternity (I'm talking about Xbox and pc exclusives, as the rest that I like is multiplatform anyway). Sony platform helped in creating and developing from scratch some of the most unique experiences in gaming
@Jacob S So you want a whole company to go bankrupt due to the greed of the people in charge? Funny how you don't have that mentality about Microsoft considering the stuff they do whether it was buying out potential rivals in the 80s and 90s, making things difficult for their competitors, moving to subscription models for Microsoft Office while charging more for the non subscription version of Office. Sure they have XBox game pass which is a good deal if you have a great Internet connection but if your dream comes true of Sony going out of business Microsoft will no longer do XBox game pass or at least not at that price. Besides I can think of at least two other companies that deserve to go out of business due their anti consumer practices than Sony and that is Disney and EA. Eventually these companies will be pro consumer again but sadly it's years away unless pro consumer individuals infiltrate the companies and work their way to the top.
As far as I understand, most of the exploits found in their previous console came from backward compatibility layer. Maybe the reason for avoiding full backward compatibility on PS5 is not technical / computing power only.
Minor nit point @ 4:48 - the firmware update removes the vulnerability, not the exploit. The exploit is the code that's used against the vulnerability. Thanks for mentioning the Atari 7800, it would be interesting to get a future video about the Atari 7800 digital signature protection and the backward compatibility mode. Also another topic that would be interesting is hearing your take on how Coleco built the Atari 2600 adapter for the ColecoVision.
In my opinion, the OG PS3 is the greatest console of all time due to the fact that it could play the previous generations on physical discs, of which I still have hundreds of. I am on my 3rd PS3 already (Went with a 320GB slim model which has been solidly reliable) since my 60GB and 80GB have major issues. I went out and got a PS2 slim so that I could still play my discs, and settled for a PS3 Slim to play just my PS3 games. I am hanging onto my old PS3's in the hopes that it will be worth it someday to have them repaired by a professional. If the PS5 had backwards compatibility with PS1-PS3 it would be a day one buy for me. For now I'm going to wait a year or so until the prices come down and a newer, more effecient model inevitably comes out.
I honestly stopped caring for Sony when they took backwards compatibility out of the PS3. The PS3 game library just doesn't hold a candle to PS1 and PS2, those consoles had so many great games which aren't getting remasters. Like If I wanna play smackdown: here comes the pain, I would either have to buy a ps2 or use emulation. Microsoft's back catalogue isn't anywhere near as good as Sony's, yet they are investing heavily in backward compatibility while Sony is holding their dicks. Running a ps2 and PS1 emulator on ps5 hardware is alot easier than running an Xbox emulator on Xbox 360.
Yeah without a doubt that’s not even a question I thoroughly understand the PlayStation 3 backwards compatibility situation I understand that no questions asked but PS one in PS2 is like beyond easy to emulate
I like how with Xbox you can put a physical classic into your console and it downloads the digital copy - afterwards the physical disc acts as a physical key to play the digital copy. This is awesome because some of my physical disks can be read, but they are scratched up so playing the 100% perfect digital copy is pretty dope.
"It looks ancient, why would anyone play this?" Tell that to the indie devs who made money off this style of game on purpose. People still buy vintage games because of the games, not because of the graphics. Developers are losing their way when it comes to that.
Also people can have a genuine affection for more primitive graphics, even their blatant flaws. How many people have you seen that have said that the PS1's low-poly models and low-res textures benefit the horror games on the platform, or that the hardware-based dithering is a desirable part of the PS1 aesthetic? I've seen quite a few of the former opinion, and a few of the latter.
I'm one of those who live these old style, but come to think of it, it still very very niche. It's small, and not worth the effort. they are still a business. They here not to satisfies us 100% percent, but rather to sell us more. It's not greedy, it's business. Most people who still plays the old game, most likely has the hardware. Other than that, most people most likely move on from it and play newer game.
@trigolis Unfortunately, that's just not true. It's known that the software side of this has already been done, they already have PS1/PS2 emulators on recent platforms which means the time and money required to do this is not nearly as much as you might thing. It's a small price to pay to please your entire fanbase.
@@hamizannaruto You're right, most of them still have the hardware. However, you have to consider that these people are given no reason to upgrade and have basically been told there never will be a reason to upgrade - Which is a loss of sales. Sales which could be had with relatively minimal effort. There are plenty of PS1/PS2 emulators out there with high compatibility that could be cheaply or even freely licensed to do this job.
@@AiOinc1 Ahh, I see. I understand. I guess with a lot of emulator out there, the cost would be minimal. Wouldn't testing it cost money tho, or is it something that should be fairly easy to do?
I think backwards compatibility for the PS5 will be limited to PS4 games at first, but will eventually be expanded to select PS1 and PS2 games in the later years.
3:44 Do you mean Yellow light of death? There is no such thing as red ring of death in Playstation 3. That was for the Xbox 360 that had the red ring of death. The Playstation 3 had something called the yellow light of death of YLOD for short.
"BuT wE cAn'T rEseLl tHe GaMe" stance is why I'm giving up on Sony and getting a new Xbox. Neither are going to release modern games I give a crap about but I have the option of playing older games I love (Burnout Revenge, anyone?)
@The Monster Under Your Bed And they got so much backlash for it that they immediately reverted and focused on backwards compatibility(hell devs from Rareware helped emulate the games on the new xbox). And Phil Spencer isn't going to be another Don matrick and he has brought back xbox from the dead since 2017.
I feel ps3 will get lost to time due to hardware failures.... there’s a lot of them out there, but like the 360 of the same gen, they just aren’t built to last 20+ years
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PS3 Slim and Super Slim are more reliable, and FAT Ps3 suffers from bad capacitors which can be replaced. But nothing lasts forever. However, there are plenty of consoles made so it will last for quite some time.
@@nicolassimoes8783 My ps2 fat and slim still working somewhat normally. Both can no longer read double layer dvds. Other than that normal dvd and cd works fine.
@susanwojcickiisacommunistpos andsheshouldbefired How. The Xbox series x plays Xbox games, Xbox 360 games and Xbox one games. The Xbox one plays many previous console titles and so does the 360. Literally every console but the first has backwards compatibility.
"Backwards compatibility is highly requested but hardly used." Honestly, I can understand this sentiment even if I'm not a fan. Regardless, it's best to not let old systems die and help preserve their history.
What these greedy Sony bastards ment by saying "hardly used" is that no one wants to buy software versions, because probably everyone has the original games on the discs and why you should buy the ROM if you can download for free...
@@sauliusjance6300 I don't know, I've known a lot of people who would trade in all of their previous gen games when a new system came out, I just don't get that, I even still like SNES and PS1/N64 era stuff. If someone doesn't have a ton of money and wants to play currently gen, I can kinda understand it though.
OOF!! MVG is doing a spicy vid. Take note Sony, we like them backwards compatible systems. I don't care, I wanna play Harry Potter & the Chamber of Secrets on my PS5 in 4K+ I want to feel those polygons in my eyes... *cough* Lara Croft *Cough*
Sony shot themselves in the foot by always changing their policies... all of this make it confusing for the consumers. Without speaking about all the ressources wasted into HW and Emulator SW development.... At the end none of their consoles or online store provides the ultimate Playstation Experience where you can play whatever you would like to play and this is the reason why I am sticking to my PC
8:32 "Adding trophy support to emulated games..." You should check out RetroAchievements, which is a crowd sourced effort to do just that. They use their own emulators and also RetroArch for play to watch for very specific memory values. Recently, I ripped my copy of SOTN and started a new playthrough on Halloween.
For anyone uninformed curious of what will work where: - For PS1+2+3: A PS3 original 60 GB Phat/launch model (not 40 or 80) will give you PS1, PS2 and PS3. If you find a US version it will play PS2 with hardware, EU version will play with software. Any other model will just play PS1 and 3, with select titles from PS2 released as "classics" on PSN. Some PS1 titles are also available digitally, in addition to the physical compatibility existing in all models of PS3. - For PS4+5: A PS5 disc version will play all PS4 games as well as PS5, naturally. The digital PS5 will only play games from your digital PS4 library unless there is some sort of deal for that specific game heading into the next generation from 4 to 5. No PS3 games will play on either unless the PS3 game was cross-platform PSN releases across PS3 and PS4 as a bundle. For PSP+Vita: - Any model of PS Vita will play Vita and PSP through emulation. As the Vita has no disc tray, the PSP games must be either 1) bought as select titles from the store, 2) illegally downloaded in a range of formats (most commonly #3) or you can 3) rip any physical game (common or extremely rare) and transfer them as ISOs/CSOs into the Vita. Step 2 and 3 require a hacked Vita, and number 3 requires a hacked PSP to begin with if you intend to rip the game yourself should you not find it online. Digitally purchased PSP titles are available on your account to download natively onto your Vita. Both PSP and Vita can play PS1 games, some of which are available as PS1 classics on the PS3/PSP/Vita store. For those not released there, they must be either illegally downloaded or ripped on a PC and converted into playable formats on a hacked PSP/Vita. To buy new PSP, Vita and PS3 titles digitally starting November 2020, you need to buy them on the PS3 store, as the PC store has shut down the sections for these platforms. The Vita still has its store up and running, but sadly it is only a matter of time before that also shuts down. That's the complete breakdown of backwards compatibility. You're welcome.
@mPky1 Well, no, not really actually. I get that you want to keep PS2 compatibility and on that issue, I agree. But I have had all models of PS3 and there's not much about the original fat that I miss nowadays. I admire the design and I used the memory card slots a lot, but it was always very loud and used twice as much power as the newer models. It was prone to overheating and was generally just bulky. In 2006 it was exclusive, but nowadays it has lost its place. I know people like the Slim, but I rather much like the Superslim actually. People dislike the disc tray but I kind of like it. If it ever breaks, it is a lot easier to repair than the specific parts needed for a motorised slot-in disc system. The Superslim is quiet, discrete, easy to transport and very friendly on the electrical bill. I have also never heard of a superslim getting YLOD or such. Plus, if you get a version with just the flash memory, you can get it dirt cheap and install your own hard drive to get all the benefits.
@mPky1 No, indeed, that doesn't happen very often. But when you do, it's nice to be able to pack the ss into a small laptop bag rather than finding the original box for the original, as it is so sensitive to shock damage and weighs almost 8 kilo. It's not a strong argument, but an advantage nonetheless. :)
@@Henkibojj The OG PS3 has absolutely not lost its place. It's by far the best of the PS3 models to have nowadays due to the backwards compatibility. There's almost no PS3 exclusive games you can't get elsewhere now, but you can play PS1, PS2, and even PSP games (with modding) over HDMI on a single system. That's 4 consoles in one system. Yes, it's loud and draws more power, but honestly with how much it'll be used the convenience of having 4 consoles in one box outweighs the extra, like, 5 cents per hour.
To be honest, I'm not confident in future backward compatibility after learning how they locked the Dual Sense controller to PS5 only. While they do good backward compatibility with PS4 it's more because for the first time they both share the same underlying core architecture. They will more likely repackage and resell old games than ever allow old games to run on current systems.
i remember in one talk before the PS5's release, they were talking about how their new immersive 3d audio tech was kind of a decendant of the cell processor in the PS3, and i was really hoping that this would mean that the hardware chip they used for that in the PS5 would double up as a cell processor for use in PS3 emulation, since it wouldn't need to be doing audio work at the time. i really wish that was indeed what happened, oh well...
BTW, the Atari 5200 had backwards compatibility with the 2600 via an adaptor sold separately, which predates the 7800's backwards compatibility. Of course, built in backwards compatibility like in the 7800 is always preferred.
For me backwards compatibility is important due to the nature of the content, I’d rather watch the original predator movie then watch the new mind numbing one due to the sad direction of the current industry. Personal I would rather play PS1 Diablo then a lot of the newer games for example.
Bruh you're missing the point. That's like saying that it has to be mastered on a reel to reel machine on chrome tape at high speed to be able to put it on a record.
@@ChrisStoneinator Digital recordings have been around since 70s many that have been pressed to vinyl? I don't understand the point you're trying to make?
@@Bangulo no they haven't, not in the major label space anyway. First notable digital recording was Brothers in Arms. And yes exactly, vinyl is pointless for anything recorded since then. That *is* the point I'm trying to make. I can't think of a single exception.
I never bought a PS4 because of no backward compatibility. I also never bought any PS4 accessories or PS4 games. How much money did Sony loose because of this? How many other people did the same, and how much money is that worth to Sony? I love my PS2: at the time, it played a new-fangled movie-disc called DVD, and for the same (or less) than stand-alone DVD players. It also played cool new video games. It also played my old PS1 games. I bought this, a fair amount of accessories, and many new games. I used to love my PS3: at the time it would play some new-fangled thing called Blu-Ray movies, it played my PS1 games, and played my PS2 games (with some very minor issues on a few games). I bought a few accessories, and a few games, but it died before I could spend a lot of $$$ I kept waiting to hear that PS4 would support PS1 or PS2 games (I understand PS3 is more challenging, so not waiting for that). But it never happened and never bought it... and thus never bought any PS4 games or accessories. I would like to buy PS5, and games and accessories for it, but not if the only backwards compatibility is PS4. I've been spending my time and money on XBOX games, PC games, and older PS1/2 games in the meantime. Does Sony want me to buy Microsoft products and use emulators (or old hardware) to play classic games (and not buy new Sony games)? That doesn't seem financially smart, but apparently I am the small minority?
Despite largely preferring Xbox to playstation, I can safely say that the PlayStation 2 and 3 have some of the best games ever. I would easily use a PlayStation 4 if that meant I could play all or at least most of the games that I personally grew up with and still play to this day. I think Sony/PlayStation are still yet to see their potential.
Thanks for the quality entertainment. I know this is EXTREMELY pedantic, but if my understanding and recent googling is correct, the Sega Mark III (Master System worldwide) was capable of playing SG-1000 cartridges, so that provides an earlier example of CONSOLE backwards compatibility by about one year. There also appears to have been an Atari 2600 adaptor for Atari 5200, but it is kind of obscure and hard to find a reliable release date for online, but could very well have been the earliest example of (non-integrated) backwards compatibility in a home console.
Either the Intellivision or the Colecovision (I often get the two confused) had a first-party peripheral that basically bolted a cloned Atari 2600 onto the machine and let you play that console's games. Would that count as backwards compatibility? Does it have to be the same company? Would it even matter, as I don't know whether it came before or after the 5200's adaptor?
@@LonelySpaceDetective Yeah, I thought about that too, but for me it's hard to say it's "backwards compatible" since the intellivison spent most of its life as a competitor to the VCS, so is part of the same "generation."
Backwards compatibility is mainly about the knowledge that your current library of games doesn't become worthless, even if in reality you won't actually get around to use it much. Also, with the new PC-like improvements old titles get even without patches it may become a much more popular feature than before.
Sony fanboys: "I don't care about PS3 backwards compatibility, who wants to play a bunch of old PS3 games anyway?" Also Sony fanboys: "I can't wait to pay $70 for the Demon's Souls remake!"
the majority of good games from the PS3/360 generation were remastered into the new one, of course, some exceptions like skate 3, red dead, mgs4, god Ascension stood behind, but it is like half a dozen games of worth games to play, it is really not worth it to make such a move of emulating this complicated system because of then. The PS2 and PS1 library are the biggest and most unique game libraries out there, and it is completely easy to emulate, literally thousands of games and Sony simply doesn't let us play them in new hardware, this makes no sense and this is highly demanded.
It’s a remake not a re release . The ps3 is very hard to emulate and even with the excellent emulator pc has rn lots of games can only be booted . You can’t blame Sony for not even trying
@@parsashirali8957 I like this excuse but I feel like Sony is letting its legacy slip by not investing a lot of R&D into emulation efforts for its older systems. It just makes the PC platform look more attractive since it can play a decent amount of games from almost every console platform. You could buy a very Cheap PC and still have access to thousands of games you can play. 10 years ago, I built a PC that was only meant to play games from the NES to PS1 and it had a Single Core Processor with 256 MBs of Ram. The Computer itself cost me like 30 bucks. Now, with stuff like Raspberry Pi 3 and 4, you can get even more out of a low end build that is only meant for emulation. Sony can concentrate on making money but that doesn't mean that something isn't lost by just leaving Metal Gear Solid on the PS3.
@@nobro_i_ate_u To add onto your comment then Sony complains about Rom sites while doing very little to support their old libraries outside of people trying to buy old hardware from Ebay and retro stores. Note: Granted Nintendo and Microsoft get annoyed by Rom sites too but Microsoft has done more to address preserving the classics same with Nintendo (somewhat)
Still got my 2 original A01's, a B01, and an E01. Had yellow light on both A01's, replaced the tantalum caps, and they are both good as, if not better than, new. Will never get rid of these, simply for their versatility. Likely the B01 and E01 will need tantalums replaced soon too, but, still holding up. Replaced drive lasers in one of the A01 models, and the E01. Yellow light is very easily repairable these days. If you find one out in the wild for cheap, scoop it up, as there is an incredibly high chance that it's the capacitors causing the YLOD.
Thing is also just didn't help them with the PS3 in general, the hardware was impressive but very unique to the PS3. So quite a few titles actually ran worse than on the 360, bayonetta for example ran at full 60fps, whereas on ps3 it ran at 30fps with fps drops. If they had opted for a typical choice at the time like PowerPC and nvidia/amd would've been interesting to see how it would've turned out, plus I suspect PS2 would've been much easier to emu software wise. But towards mid-gen and later it was less of an issue
Same with sega, how many revisions do they have off the genesis including license versions of it, wich are not all fully compatible with all games or accessoires, what a shame , hack even poor genesis clones from atgames were licensed.
@@NonsensicalSpudz SPU is the problem they are pain to code and sony itself said they make it harder to develop on purpose, just to prolong the console life cycle. that is why the devs is lazy and that results in worse performance
@@NonsensicalSpudz But when devs did crack the Cell's capability like Naughty Dog did with the Last of Us the results were fantastic, TLOU was really not far from next gen looks wise, in fact the PS4 version really doesn't look much better than the PS3 version. The Cell was originally designed to do the GPU side of things as well as the CPU side, but due to devs feedback SONY decided to implement an Nvidia GPU last minute. The Cell was far from ever being fully utilized in any game unfortunately, the 360 had a better GPU and was easier to optimize games for hence it was the better choice for buying multiplat games with only a handful of exceptions where the devs made use of the Cells SPE's to make their game shine on the PS3, only a dozen or so mostly first party games did make use of them, a multiplat game for example that did is Oblivion, it looked better and loaded faster, Enchanted Arms is another that was better on PS3, and a 2 or 3 others. There are quite a few 1st party games that left the 360 for dust in the graphical department thanks to the Cell, Uncharted 2 & 3, TLAOU, Killzone 2, Motorstorm series, Ratchet and Clank games, the Cell also allowed for some really awesome A.I in games (the Resistance games for instance) as well as some dope physics, Resistance 2 used 6 SPE's for A.I and physics among other things.
@@NonsensicalSpudz this happened a lot. Not as dramatic but, on Red Dead I remember at the time, the PS3 version (which I had) was more crippled than the 360 version. If I remember correctly the 360 version have a higher resolution, 720p vs 640p? I think? And there was more grass density around the map on the Xbox.
Good Guy MVG. Doesn't beg his viewers in the beginning of the video to thumbs up, subscribe, and hit that bell notification. Only ask for a thumbs up at the end of the video briefly. Thanks MVG
I always wondered what the limitations were with the PS3 models. Early systems had backwards compatibility. Later they took it away. 4 only digital emulation. The 5 needs to deliver something awesome to floor it's competition. Hope one day backwards compatibility becomes a part of the PS5. Any PS game is playable. Sure newer games are great and all, but what if you want to dive into a classic? If it's competition can do it. Why can't the 5? 🤔 Seriously it just doesn't make sense
I almost went "He explained in the video why Sony doesn't have BC anymore", but you did bring up something new- if the competition can do it, why can't Sony? The answer lies in how they have promised near complete BC with PS4 games, save for a few titles who are basically just gone because the developers have totally abandoned them. It all comes down to the changes in hardware design- the code, the machinery, the very circuits, the everything that makes the PS3 what it is, is VERY different from the code / machinery / circuits that makes the PS4 what it is, and the PS3 was in turn substantially different from the PS2... while the PS2 and PS1 were a bit more similar, and the PS4 and PS5 are also much alike. Sony were FAR too ambitious with the PS3. They wanted to make a monster machine capable of incredible feats, and upended almost everything about their machines architecture to reach their goals. In comparison to Microsoft when they went from Xbox to X360... Let's use a simile- Microsoft and Sony have built two different offices. When Microsoft wanted to upgrade its office they just added another section to their building- all that was good about their old building (you know where the bathrooms were, you know which rooms have reliable lighting) and all that was bad (the room that gets cold still gets cold, the room that drains s lot of electricity still drains a lot etc) was left intact, just with a new addition to their old building that let them do some new things. Sony in comparison tore down EVERYTHING and built something completely new, and nobody really knew where the bathrooms were, nobody knew how to get from the cafeteria to the apartment in the most efficient way, and while Sony SAYS it's new architecture means that once you learn how to get around the new building your life will be so much better, everyone who had to use the office was losing money working there because they had to spend so much time figuring things out rather than getting their work done, whereas if they worked at Microsofts office they could just do what they'd always done and get right back to work. Sure, they still had to worry about all the old problems, but at least they already KNEW about those problems. Sony's new office meant new opportunities, but also new, unknown problems. But between PS4 and PS5, Sony has copied MS style. The PS5 is pretty similar to PS4 but a bit more powerful, it's easy to make what worked on PS4 work on PS5. But to emulate PS3... it might just look like a more powerful machine should have no problem making a less powerful machines games work easy, but it's not that simple. To return to the simile, whenever you worked in the PS3 office, everything you did had to work according to that office's architecture. They totally tore that arcitecture down when they made the PS4 office again because it turns out the PS3 architecture ultimately WASN'T a good thing, but now all the plans and blueprints for the work done in PS3 office depends completely ON that office. You have to recreate the hallways, bathrooms, cafeteria etc that was in that office, you can't just do what worked but in the new office. For MS it's simple because they've kept almost ALL their old offices looking exactly the same, it's easy as pie to retrace your steps, doesn't take a lot of manhours at alll. But Sony were ambitious and wanted new offices, and now whenever they want to revisit old projects they have to recreate their steps, everytime, and almost every old project is different so they have to do a lot more work... and they pretty much decided that all this extra work would cost them more in r&d than they'd make back from paying customers. MS has to do a lot less work becaude their fundamental architecture hasn't really changed over the years. Sony's did, and our current world is the end-result.
Yes it make sense, it's all about the CPU architecture. Ps4 and Xbox one are custom PC, PS5 and Series S/X are the same, no problems for BC. PS3 is a weird monster, one of the most complex architecture to date on console (and a nightmare to code for) Making a dedicated emulator for that can't be done with two lines of code. On PS4 It would have been literally impossible to make (in terms of raw power, the PS3 CPU is faster than the PS4's). It "should" be possible to play PS3 games on PS5, but developing an emulator cost money (Yeah, on PC you have the fantastic RPCS3, a fan made project that's really amazing, but really far from perfect) and players who would use it are a minority. It's all about money and if it's worth it for Sony. But yeah, that would be pretty cool. ^^ PS2 emulation is mature on PC, and doesn't require high-end specs, and you can use your original game disc directly.
I loved the PS2 library so much I had to re-buy an 80 Gig PS3 that supports software emulation BC. Over the years Sony has become one of the most anti-consumer companies in existence. The lack of BC on the PS4 and PS5 only being restricted to PS4 BC indicates to me that they have nothing but disdain for their loyal customers. As of now, I have zero interest in PS5. As for Xbox, I applaud their effort, but I don't appreciate releases of BC titles in drips and drabs.
I merely wish for GTA Sa on future consoles WITH MULTIPLAYER! I am aware there is a PC Mod for GTA Sa multiplayer - SAMP. But I still play xbox -Xbox 360 and the living room and all is so comfortable. Keyboards for gaming isn't a strong skill for me.
@@tranquility6358 thanks you have just reminded me of that program however still, you need a keybpoard to navigate menus and chat bar commands. I did not find a way to make it work some years ago.
The fact that they never put PS1 games on the PS4 store or PS Now honestly baffles me. That seems like such an easy win for them, and the self imposed commitment to added trophy support is such a bizarre thing to me. There are PS3 games that still don't have trophy support because they pre-date the concept (including some that are currently on PS Now), so why are they trying to shoehorn that stuff into older titles if it costs them time and money?
![[Live] : ONE 169 วันนี้!! "อนาโตลี vs อูมาร์"](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/IK3YZVWuFJg/mqdefault.jpg)
Someone needs to explain to Rockstar that backward compatibility is a thing. GTA5 has been released on 3 generations of consoles now.
I mean it made sense to release it for ps4 its wasnt backwards compatible with the ps3
@w210source yes they will probably make gta 5.99
And bethesda
6 has bad ju ju just look at RE6 lol takes a while for people to forget so they can reboot the series as Grand Theft Auto
Honestly I don't know, I wouldn't want to be playing the PS3 version of GTA 5 on PC in 2020. lol
Besides, if they announced GTA 5 for next gen, chances are that GTA 6 just isn't coming any time soon.
I get it we're all in this "gta bad" wagon but, logically thinking, it does make sense since GTA 5 is still getting updates and content.
The PS3 and PS4 also have PSP emulators. On PS3 it is how Minis were played, and on PS4 it was used for LocoRoco and Patapon.
Also for remasters like Monster Hunter 3 HD. In fact you can even run that on a real PSP but you won't get any of the "HD" parts.
Wasn’t it also used for Castlevania Requiem?
@Lyra Heartfold I looked back into it. It turns out it was just a rumor.
I thought minis were native on both consoles
@Lyra Heartfold no the media engine isn't included either, so graphics are emulated. Only reason I know this is because the N64 emulator calls for the media engine, so you need to remove that file from the emulator before you run it on a vita
Offering older games in the e-store is not backwards compatibility
No that's called greed 🤮
Yep. The only thing that actually counts is putting in an old game disc or downloading a copy from my purchase history and playing without any extra additional cost. PS Now isn't backwards compatibility. Remasters aren't backwards compatibility. Selling emulated versions of old games digitally isn't backwards compatibility. Those are business opportunities Sony created for themselves by not providing backwards compatibility to its users.
Then what is backwards compatibility?
@@bossmicky9256 Being able to play your old copies of games in a newer system
Being able to play your old owned games without extra cost and running them on your console is backwards compatibility. Anything other than that is not.
While I can't speak for the entire gaming world, I'm one of those people that still play's PS1 and PS2 titles in 2020. Part of the reason why I wanted to invest in a decent gaming machine last November (2019) was so I could also emulate the PS2 games I wanted to play like Gran Turismo 4 at full speed (which my computer can do even at 4K internal resolution on PCSX2)
I hope ps5 has backwardness compatibility with ps1 and ps2 so I can play my old stuff.
@@GameTimeWhy It doesn’t, there’s only ps4 backwards compatibility.
@@Bluesine_R yeah I commented too soon and saw that near the end of the video. That's so lazy of them.
@@GameTimeWhy As much as it is lazy, it also makes sense.
They are still business, and need to make business wise choice, not only consumer choice, and well, most people who still play ps1 and ps2 games are niche, and not the worth the time and effort to put into these.
@@hamizannaruto is not many people but Sony is the winner and has been of the console wars for a while. If Microsoft can come out with pro consumer moves then so can Sony.
I'd be curious to see if the PS4's PS2 releases as well as the bonus PS1 build of Medieval work on the PS5. Guess we'll see soon?
Will ps5 full backwards compatible with PS1 and PS2 through emulation?
@@haseeburrehman3972 no ps5 only goes back as far as ps4
@@haseeburrehman3972 maybe with psnow
He forgot the magical word called select few PS4 game titles. Never takes Sony on their word they can easily walk back and say we didn't promise. Also Xbox one is not truly Backward Compatible it doesn't play every single Xbox 360 game or original Xbox game. As for the new Xbox series take it as a grain of salt and don't expect every single Xbox One game be playable on the Xbox series.
For those who are confused as to what he means here, Jak 1, 2, and 3 were released as roms on disks with emulators as a collector bundle thing, with recreations of the original boxes just with PS4 branding. Now, Sony HAS released a list of not compatible games, none of which are their backwards compatible titles, but then again, they TECHNICALLY aren't PS4 games, they're PS2 games, so maybe they don't count it?
Backward compatibility is why I still have my old PS2 after all these years. Sony should keep that up with all generations of consoles for us old school gamers. If I ever buy a PS5, I'd like the option of playing my old games on it.
I also have kept all my old consoles to play my back catalogue; But I don’t expect Sony nor Microsoft to make a future console more expensive for everyone to keep happy the 1% of gamers like us... Now, that would be selfish.
As it’s been said, it’s often requested, but infrequently used featured.
It's also why I have a PS3... some games like Tokyo Jungle were never remastered/rereleased on PS4, so lack of backwards compatibility compels me to keep it
This. My PS2 slim has put in quite a number of hours playing PS1 games, and it’s just so convenient. Having access to essentially the full libraries of both PS2 and PS1 games is a massive incentive to own one.
Unfortunately, I think that era of backwards compatibility is dead. It’s just far more profitable for companies to remaster or rerelease older titles digitally and force consumers to buy the same games over and over.
It’s unlikely that PS3,PS2 and PS1 backwards compability on PS5 due to different architectures.Expect PS4 backwards compability though
@@Xilog The reason for no PS3,2,1 backwards compability on PS4 is because of the different architectures.PS1-3 have a architecture that’s developed by Sony.PS4 is x86
Sony: People say they want backward compatibility but don't use it. So we will not do it.
Also Sony: Here! Pay again for these titles of old generations!
What r u talking about? First they added bc, and then said that people don't use it much
You Mean Nintendo . There the Undisputed king of recycling and remastering games
Nintendo are worse than anyine for making you pay for old titles over and over again. But no one cares about that because it's Nintendo. They have been ripping people off on their nostalgia for years and people have let them get away with it time and time again.
@@SergioWhitestone Yeah, and then SONY went ahead and wrote software emulators and resold old games they said no one wanted to play on their newer systems. They could have made the emulator available and able to use real discs that people already own.
Boy, o que você tá fazendo aqui ? Lol !
Slight correction there mate, the VU's go dead on the PS2 when in PS1 mode, the R3000A actually contains the GTE on the PS2, the only thing the EE side does is translate GPU commands (which are handled by PGIF which is part of the SIF, this is connected to the DMA channel the GPU was on the PS1) and send them to the Graphics Synthesizer. The VU's are not used.
This. Feel free to contact us for more information. We can be found in the PCSX2 and DobieStation discord servers.
It's a little surprising that this wasn't noticed during editing as the block diagram at 1:58 clearly shows the embedded GTE.
@@firstsurname9893 Yep! Admittedly I think that picture was relating to the PS1, for a while at least it wasn't clear if some components had been removed when changing the CPU for the PS2, but nope, that's still there lol
There is exactly the same information on the wiki, probably MVG wanted to say that GTE is emulated on VU for Slim versions of PS2, where IOP is replaced with a PowerPC-derivative processor, i.e. there is no GTE and MDEC and so on. circuits that are in the original PS1 CXD8530 processor.
@@Andorianin That is possible yes, we have experienced that slim BIOS's don't work on PCSX2 for PS1 backwards compatibility, so it's possible some sort of emulation is done on the EE/VU's instead, I hadn't considered that, but also I haven't seen any solid proof apart from some random guy on the internet saying that's the case, however that does make a small amount of sense. Certainly something worth investigating in the future though.
"Trophy" support is just a BS excuse to make you re-pay for the old games. It could easily just be ignored.
Yup. They can enable a non-trophy backward mode if you have an original disc.
@@Mostege or just give a single thropy that says congrats you played the game
@@rpst39 or whatever just for the compatyibility sake
Купить их заново, спустя годы. Даже если у вас до сих пор есть на полке эти игры, на дисках. И так как другого выхода нет, много кто их покупал.
PS2 games ran on PS3s without trophies too, now they make shit up to sell you the same game over and over again.
Im so happy to have bought a PC, so I dont have to deal with this non-sense bullshit anymore, no one is patronizing me about what games I can and cant play anymore.
Sony: Only allows backwards compatibility by re-purchasing your games.
Also Sony: No one uses this, they must not really want it.
Mr krabs was the advisor.
even when people are purchasing, they just can't run PS3 games on newer hardware.
"Purchase?" Well, you could subscribe to Playstation Now to stream PS3 games to your PS4.
@@emmettturner9452
1- PS Now is exclusive to 19 countries (My country Peru is not one of them)
2- The time your internet signal spends travelling to the server and then returning with a response adds input lag
3- The PS4 is notorious for its heavy input lag in the controller alone. Cloud Gaming makes things even worse.
PlayStation 4, more like PotatoStation™4
3:44 Red ring of death for the PS3? You mean the Yellow light of death?
😓the dreaded ylod.. the stuff of nightmares
_Beep! Beep! Beep!_
Scary, I know.
Doesn't even come close to the scarcity of the PS2's "RSOD"! :P
I lost my ao1 on that ylod
yeah, unlike with xbox360 RROD, actual reason behind YLOD is still unknown so I just try to preserve my CECHA by keeping it clean and hoping for the best.
I already now how it goes, but will still watch MVG video till the end
PS2 emulation was removed much before the slim model release. You said 2007 correctly, but the video shows the slim which might imply to some people that all fat models had BC.
After my 60gb original broke I got the 80gb one which did not have BC
@@GrimCitizen Yes, there were 3 revisions of the fat model. Full BC, Partial BC and non-BC. The only physical difference between non-BC and the rest are the USB ports and card reader. Most of the fat models are the non-BC ones. Full BC ones had major heating issues and it's rare to find one in good condition today.
Yep. It was the 40GB fat model.
I believe the 40GB part of 80 PS3 had non- BC. 60/20 had full. And some 80GB had partial BC through emulation. (Correct me if I'm wrong).
@@TPRES_74 True for JP and US models, but EU 60GB models only had partial BC.
This video was excellent!
Loved the explanation about how PS2 was emulated on the PS3. I had no idea that the RAMBUS and EE were actually put on the mainboard. The EE emulation development on the PS3 PPU and all the IO tasks on the SPUs must have been one fun design task after they were removed from the PCB.
Thanks for the comprehensive history and overview! Always enjoy your videos.
"EE development on the PPU"?
You must have misunderstood something, because the EE is not PPU but a MIPS III/IV-Hybrid with additional custom calls/opcodes!
@@tnaplastic2182 Was going off what he said in the video, check the diagram at 5:26. Thanks for the information though!
@@tnaplastic2182 Also referring to the emulation development :)
Edited the comment to be a bit more specific
"It is one of those features that is much requested, but not actually used much" - I'm curious what this assumption is based on. He wouldn't know how much it is used unless it's there. If it's based on the early days of the PS3 when it had BC - that was 15 years ago. If it's based on the "PS2 classic" games from the store - it is not the type of BC people ever requested. If you have to repurchase a game you already have a disc version of, it kind of defeats the purpose and it's no surprise that people are not using it much. Especially considering those early complaints where users who purchased a PS2 Classic game on the PS3 were asked to buy them again on the PS4.
That's the interesting part about the Xbox BC. All 360 games that are on the store download the store version once you pop in the disc and in order to play it, you just have to have the disc in the drive. Even more interesting is GTA San Andreas. If you put in the OG Xbox disc, it downloads the 360 version from the store. So you're playing an Xbox 360 game on the Xbox One with an Xbox disc. Aside from that version being trash, it doesn't get any more customer friendly than that.
Jim Ryan isn't a gamer, he doesn't understand them and he is the worst CEO Playstation ever had.
Im assuming its based on data collected from systems that are connected online (system usage etc).
""It is one of those features that is much requested, but not actually used much" - I'm curious what this assumption is based on."
Well, considering the PS4, with zero BC outsold the XB1 which had full BC by almost three to one I'd say he's looked at the data and come to the correct conclusion that old titles don't sell consoles.
@@spaldron the xbox one didnt have BC for the first years
ah, so basically Microsoft already has the setup that i just 'wished for' in My Comment (ive been a bit out of touch with consoles lately-- all i have is a Switch, and that DEFINITELY isnt Backwards Compatible with any other system; only a select few games get ported up, and you Absolutely have to pay for them again)
Correction: PSP isn't emulated on Vita, it actually has PSP hardware.
So kinda like the 3DS? (I could be wrong handheld hardware isn't the best of my hardware knowledge)
@@V1VISECT6 it is. It has a arm9 that does it natively.
@@stevemclovin1566 Interesting, could play a reason in why Vitas have gone up a bit. (atleast where I live) I've always wanted one and was kicking myself for selling my PSP a couple years back. Loved the homebrew scene back then and playing my the PS1 games that I physically owned. More invective to track down a Vita. They were always neat dispite the flaws.
even if it was emulated, emulating psp is childs play for most hardware (with the exception of a few games)
I appreciate the care and cohesiveness you put in all your videos, documenting facts with dates, developers involved and even tests or POCs... This is the added value and the differential factor between your videos and all the similar channels on TH-cam. Thank you for your hard work.
Honestly, I got really excited when we had rumors about the PS5 being compatible with all PS consoles. When Sony denied this, all interest I had in buying the console was gone.
I'll just keep playing on my PC, that can still play all the games I have ever bought.
Modern Vintage Gamer: Lets talk about Sony's complicated history with Backwards Compatibility.
*5 minutes later
-Mistakes were made!
When the PS4 was released, Sony came across as the "savior of used games" to make Microsoft and the Xbox One seem anti-consumer. It's weird when you fast forward to today and see Microsoft setting the positive example over Sony in regards to respecting your ability to play everything you ever bought from them.
If there's anything I've learned from videos about the history of consumer technologies, Sony is a company of big hits and big misses; and rarely in-between.
"It only does everything.*"
*New Playstation 3 console does less than previous models of said console.
"no one uses backwards compatibility" was never true. They had no way to measure it prior to total saturation point for online connectivity, Crash Bandicoot games were always selling every month even on PS3 after they'd gone out of their way to try to phase out BC and they only ever started trimming it off purely to cut costs from the $599 monster. It helped the PS2 sell like crazy. They only ever stopped on PS4 because the PS3 system architecture was too ridiculous to emulate easily. Meanwhile they were trying to sell PS Now for old games while simultaneously saying no one wants old games. retro consoles sell out. retro game collections and endeavors like arcade archives seem extremely sustainable financially, and emulation outside of consoles runs rampant. Not to mention the success of remasters, remakes etc across all platforms. They then reneged on their own narrative of trying to downplay BC by supporting PS4 BC on PS5.
It was always a PR narrative for the console wars and never held any water.
Which was EXTREMELY shortsighted. Imagine if they never stopped full backwards compatibility. Lol. People STILL play PS2 and PS1 games let alone PS3 games. They'd buy a PS5 just to do that IMO.
I'd shell out some serious cash to get a PS5 with added back compatibility for all generations. Playing PS3 games in 4k would be very satisfying
Just buy a PC then, it literally does all the things you want it to and infinitely more.
@@maxdergroe9082 rpcs3 isn't compatible with my entire collection, and requires far more power than I need in my system to render optimally. Even if I would upgrade to a 4090, there are plenty of rendering and frametime issues with a majority of the games "playable" on the emulator.
@@maxdergroe9082 rpcs3 isn't complete enough to be viable for much of my collection.
That footage of you skipping the boxes and apples in Crash Bandicoot on the PSP frustrates my OCD lol.
4K? hell yea. That PS2 footage really needed it 😂😂😂
Run the PS2's NATIVE (digital) output through an AI and you would CERTAINLY wonder, how it would look like!
I'd be satisfied With 480p for most of my ps2 games. A couple games displayed as high as 1080i with component cables but GTA SA is near unplayable on a modern display.
Me with 3mbit internet: BRUH
I will never understand why people want to have their ps2 games stretched to 4K, unless theres a smoothing filter to smooth out jagged edges and all that blockeyness,
While ai upscaling sounds cool but i can imagine how complicated that will be as it has to recognize objects to add 4K textures to it, wich not only will add delay to the games but also becomes a hit & miss situation as the ai will obviously fail recognizing objects overtimes.
PS2 image quality sucks, regardless of resolution.
You mentioned the Atari 7800 was officially the first console to have backwards compatibility, but the Atari 5200 also had it via a cartridge adapter. (Atari 5200 CX-55 cartridge adapter) The 5200 came out before the 7800.
Man, that intro track is the single most iconic piece of music that I heard on a TH-cam channel. You hear that and you instantly know that you're gonna have 10 to 15 minutes of great immersive content. Any chance you'll release the full track?
modernvintagegamer.bandcamp.com/track/pacific-drive
@@UnstoppablePhoenix that's pure gold
Sony constantly flip flopping on the issue is frustrating to say the least. I love playing my old games. Because they aren't filled with micro transactions and DLC. Also, there are so many I just haven't played yet that I want to.
Then do yourself the favor and get a PC to play them on. Waiting for Sony to give you a good solution one day eventually is a loosing game.
I have a fat PS3 test unit that plays PS1, PS2, and PS3 games from any region. It also boots PS1 and PS2 backups with no modifications needed, except PS2 backups have to be authored a certain way.
How to improve backwards compatibility on newer generation --- Consistency
In case of Xbox, it has the most consistent API's when it comes to game development. That's why the backwards compatibility and emulation of older titles on newer generation of Xbox always works unlike Sega, Sony, and Nintendo which always switch hardware, interfaces, and API's on every generation.
Yup with the PS3 they changed everything which is why they likely won't make PS3 backwards compatibility. Which means the only way to place PS3 games will be either on a pre owned PS3 or on an emulator but from what I've heard PS3 games are really hard to emulate.
This is why a lot of Windows games going back to the 90's still work on modern PCs with little to no modification. Same x86 architecture, and DirectX and OpenGL have maintained an impressive level backwards compatibility. It's mostly DRM issues you run into these days. Especially disc-based games from the mid-late naughties. But there's usually work arounds for those. Of course if Windows kills of support for 32-bit applications, that'll be a bit of an issue.
This is completely false. Sony uses a very consitent API throught all of its hardware and did use consistent hardware for PS1, PS2 and PSP, they only changed hardware on PS3 and PS4 (the API was still similar though). Nintendo literally overclocked the GameCube and gave you the Wii and Wii U. Sega stopped being Sega after the Genesis so no point in compating there, the Genesis did have MasterSystem hardware in it (why they didn't make the cartridges compatible without an adapter is beyond me).
I just wish Microsoft addressed whatever the licencing issues were that apparently prevent them from cracking the original Xbox library wide open. They had an excellent emulator on the Xbox 360, clearly have a far better one now. Can't even play loads of their own first party published games from back in the day like Amped or Rallisport Challenge 2.
@@InnuendoXP What licencing issues are you referring to? Afaia the 360 plays pretty much the whole OG XB catalogue.
One thing I've always appreciated about your videos is the maticulous efforts you go through to provide as much information as possible. It's presented in such a way that even (most) uninterested parties are enthralled with your presentation. Love your work! Keep it up!!!
The PS2 Software Emulator on the PS3 is a marvel of engineering, I'd really like to see you do a deep dive on how it works if possible MVG.
There's a PS3 Dev wiki online with a lot of information about it, I would link it here but I think my comment would get flagged, it should show up in google.
Backward compatibility is why I still have a fat PS3 connected to my TV. It would be great if I could have a modern Playstation to play my entire physical collection, spanning the previous 4 generations. It would be amazing if I could play those games with friends over share play, like the PS2 classics on PS4.
Jim Ryan is an insane person and what he said about back compat is also insane. Just let me put my PS1 and PS2 discs into the PS5. Please.
The PS5 can't play CD-ROMs. And so PS1 discs can't be read.
You are really going to ignore the fact that the hardware manufacturer knows how often people put old PS generation discs in their consoles?
@@ukkev7056 wait, the ps5 cant read cd roms?... Does that mean it cant read dvds? They use the same laser...
@@SuperPickle15
They can play DVDs. But they've left out audio CD and CD-ROM disc playback.
@@ukkev7056 that is dumb as hell. Gald im done with consoles. #pcmasterrace
I depend on your weekly upload for my Monday night study sessions, thank you fellow Aussie charcoal chicken king
Still using my CECHA01 to stream video in my living room everyday.
I just wish companies would actually be supportive of backwards compatibility. One of the things that made me switch to the PC and never look back is the fact that even if I need some workarounds I'll always be able to play the games I own.
Sony: flip flops around on BC.
Microsoft: yes we can
Mistakes were made... Making breakfast this morning before watching this video.
time zones confuse me
Ahahaha.
No backward compatibilty = More money from Remasters.
I didn't get the *"requirement"* that games have trophies
It's Sony's policy and it probably boosts the sales of older games that people wouldn't pay for again.
I think it's a pathetic excuse from Sony and I can't imagine anyone really caring about stupid trophies for ancient games. We just want to be able to play them without having to keep old hardware.
Satisfication for users maybe?
@@moonwhistle Well put it this way unless an old game is one that I loved back in the day, which there isn't many that I would pay for again if I already had. Then you damn right that without the trophies being added there isn't a chance I would pay again.
Seriously, what a waste of time and resources. I'm willing to bet the popular choice would be more compatible games (via disc) without trophies than fewer games with trophies.
I think most of it comes down to a Japanese video game company philosophy of not wanting to surrender a potential future revenue stream. Why let people play their old games for free when they can charge them again for a re-releases/remaster on the newer platform sometime in the future. Nintendo are the absolute worst for this, Sony are not far behind.
@Jacob S I would say the same for Nintendo, but you’re probably going to defend that company. Anyways, Sony isn’t going away anytime soon.
@Jacob S I think I'll stop gaming if there's only a microsoft monopoly in the console market or you could only play these multiplatform games on PC, there won't be nothing special anymore.
@Jacob S my favourite games and sagas are Sony games. I won't be happy being stuck with mediocre fps games and mobas for eternity (I'm talking about Xbox and pc exclusives, as the rest that I like is multiplatform anyway). Sony platform helped in creating and developing from scratch some of the most unique experiences in gaming
@Jacob S So you want a whole company to go bankrupt due to the greed of the people in charge? Funny how you don't have that mentality about Microsoft considering the stuff they do whether it was buying out potential rivals in the 80s and 90s, making things difficult for their competitors, moving to subscription models for Microsoft Office while charging more for the non subscription version of Office. Sure they have XBox game pass which is a good deal if you have a great Internet connection but if your dream comes true of Sony going out of business Microsoft will no longer do XBox game pass or at least not at that price. Besides I can think of at least two other companies that deserve to go out of business due their anti consumer practices than Sony and that is Disney and EA. Eventually these companies will be pro consumer again but sadly it's years away unless pro consumer individuals infiltrate the companies and work their way to the top.
Because Nintendo and most Sony fans are braindead.
THIS is the intro music I love! :D
On the content of the video, I love that too!
Keep up the good work.
As far as I understand, most of the exploits found in their previous console came from backward compatibility layer. Maybe the reason for avoiding full backward compatibility on PS5 is not technical / computing power only.
Incredibly interesting and detailed! And I can never get enough of the music
I just want to be able to put my gran turismo 4 disc in and play it. I had an OG ps3 that could do it but it died. And my ps2 is absolutely thrashed
I could help to fix your OG PS3 and your PS2.
PCSX2 is your friend if you have a decent PC.
I do have a decent pc. Hmmmmmmmmmmm that’s a fair point
Minor nit point @ 4:48 - the firmware update removes the vulnerability, not the exploit. The exploit is the code that's used against the vulnerability. Thanks for mentioning the Atari 7800, it would be interesting to get a future video about the Atari 7800 digital signature protection and the backward compatibility mode. Also another topic that would be interesting is hearing your take on how Coleco built the Atari 2600 adapter for the ColecoVision.
In my opinion, the OG PS3 is the greatest console of all time due to the fact that it could play the previous generations on physical discs, of which I still have hundreds of. I am on my 3rd PS3 already (Went with a 320GB slim model which has been solidly reliable) since my 60GB and 80GB have major issues. I went out and got a PS2 slim so that I could still play my discs, and settled for a PS3 Slim to play just my PS3 games. I am hanging onto my old PS3's in the hopes that it will be worth it someday to have them repaired by a professional. If the PS5 had backwards compatibility with PS1-PS3 it would be a day one buy for me. For now I'm going to wait a year or so until the prices come down and a newer, more effecient model inevitably comes out.
Intro: Plays
Me: YEAAAAAAAH **bangs head**
That specific track has something to it, man.
I honestly stopped caring for Sony when they took backwards compatibility out of the PS3. The PS3 game library just doesn't hold a candle to PS1 and PS2, those consoles had so many great games which aren't getting remasters. Like If I wanna play smackdown: here comes the pain, I would either have to buy a ps2 or use emulation. Microsoft's back catalogue isn't anywhere near as good as Sony's, yet they are investing heavily in backward compatibility while Sony is holding their dicks. Running a ps2 and PS1 emulator on ps5 hardware is alot easier than running an Xbox emulator on Xbox 360.
Yeah without a doubt that’s not even a question I thoroughly understand the PlayStation 3 backwards compatibility situation I understand that no questions asked but PS one in PS2 is like beyond easy to emulate
@Balakeh don’t disagree with you. But emulation and reverse compatibility is the problem. Not the ps3 library itself. Ps3 library was awesome
I wish Black would at least get a PC port, I dont care about a full remaster, I just want to play it at full speed again..
@@dcfuksurmom magnet even MAG aswell
It's hard being a teen with no money or good computer wanting to play Persona 3 and 4.
I like how with Xbox you can put a physical classic into your console and it downloads the digital copy - afterwards the physical disc acts as a physical key to play the digital copy. This is awesome because some of my physical disks can be read, but they are scratched up so playing the 100% perfect digital copy is pretty dope.
"It looks ancient, why would anyone play this?"
Tell that to the indie devs who made money off this style of game on purpose. People still buy vintage games because of the games, not because of the graphics.
Developers are losing their way when it comes to that.
Also people can have a genuine affection for more primitive graphics, even their blatant flaws.
How many people have you seen that have said that the PS1's low-poly models and low-res textures benefit the horror games on the platform, or that the hardware-based dithering is a desirable part of the PS1 aesthetic? I've seen quite a few of the former opinion, and a few of the latter.
I'm one of those who live these old style, but come to think of it, it still very very niche. It's small, and not worth the effort. they are still a business. They here not to satisfies us 100% percent, but rather to sell us more. It's not greedy, it's business.
Most people who still plays the old game, most likely has the hardware. Other than that, most people most likely move on from it and play newer game.
@trigolis Unfortunately, that's just not true. It's known that the software side of this has already been done, they already have PS1/PS2 emulators on recent platforms which means the time and money required to do this is not nearly as much as you might thing.
It's a small price to pay to please your entire fanbase.
@@hamizannaruto You're right, most of them still have the hardware. However, you have to consider that these people are given no reason to upgrade and have basically been told there never will be a reason to upgrade - Which is a loss of sales. Sales which could be had with relatively minimal effort. There are plenty of PS1/PS2 emulators out there with high compatibility that could be cheaply or even freely licensed to do this job.
@@AiOinc1 Ahh, I see. I understand.
I guess with a lot of emulator out there, the cost would be minimal.
Wouldn't testing it cost money tho, or is it something that should be fairly easy to do?
I think backwards compatibility for the PS5 will be limited to PS4 games at first, but will eventually be expanded to select PS1 and PS2 games in the later years.
3:44 Do you mean Yellow light of death?
There is no such thing as red ring of death in Playstation 3. That was for the Xbox 360 that had the red ring of death.
The Playstation 3 had something called the yellow light of death of YLOD for short.
I love your videos, man. You are doing a great job. I hope that you have no worries right now.
"BuT wE cAn'T rEseLl tHe GaMe" stance is why I'm giving up on Sony and getting a new Xbox. Neither are going to release modern games I give a crap about but I have the option of playing older games I love (Burnout Revenge, anyone?)
Burnout games were the shit back then, Paradise one is not as fun as the older ones.
@@GoldSrc_ i so wanted to like Paradise and while it looks fantastic it just never felt like a racing game
@The Monster Under Your Bed And they got so much backlash for it that they immediately reverted and focused on backwards compatibility(hell devs from Rareware helped emulate the games on the new xbox). And Phil Spencer isn't going to be another Don matrick and he has brought back xbox from the dead since 2017.
Imagine if someone finds a way to run unsigned code on PS5. This machine would be the ultimate emulation machine.
That title goes to Series X i would say, but yeah ^^
I feel ps3 will get lost to time due to hardware failures.... there’s a lot of them out there, but like the 360 of the same gen, they just aren’t built to last 20+ years
PS3 Slim and Super Slim are more reliable, and FAT Ps3 suffers from bad capacitors which can be replaced. But nothing lasts forever. However, there are plenty of consoles made so it will last for quite some time.
Thankfully there is good progress being made on the PS3 emulator RPCS3. At least the games have a chance of being preserved.
My ps2 slim still going strong 💪
@@nicolassimoes8783 My ps2 fat and slim still working somewhat normally. Both can no longer read double layer dvds. Other than that normal dvd and cd works fine.
@@nicolassimoes8783 lucky you. Both my PS2 slim and PS3 all dead.
The Sega Mark III supported SG-1000/SC-3000 games a year before the Atari 7800 was released ;)
"If it was easy. Everyone would be doing it." -Microsoft.
Find the laziest person who gets the job done, and you’ll find the way. said by bill gates.
What I said isn’t the actual quote.
Exact Quote: “I always choose a lazy person to do a hard job, because a lazy person will find an easy way to do it.”
@@LKComputes if that were employed by other companies, well, I'd be employed.
@susanwojcickiisacommunistpos andsheshouldbefired How. The Xbox series x plays Xbox games, Xbox 360 games and Xbox one games. The Xbox one plays many previous console titles and so does the 360. Literally every console but the first has backwards compatibility.
@@clxwncrxwn That is hardly even close to the right “but OK
No one goes further into detail than MVG, and that's what keeps me coming back.
"Backwards compatibility is highly requested but hardly used."
Honestly, I can understand this sentiment even if I'm not a fan. Regardless, it's best to not let old systems die and help preserve their history.
Not every one has money to every danm game on market on release.
What these greedy Sony bastards ment by saying "hardly used" is that no one wants to buy software versions, because probably everyone has the original games on the discs and why you should buy the ROM if you can download for free...
@@sauliusjance6300 I don't know, I've known a lot of people who would trade in all of their previous gen games when a new system came out, I just don't get that, I even still like SNES and PS1/N64 era stuff. If someone doesn't have a ton of money and wants to play currently gen, I can kinda understand it though.
@@mattwolf7698 how many "current gen" games are actually worth playing again and again and without demanding to buy any extra add-ons?
Your audio levels are great.
OOF!! MVG is doing a spicy vid. Take note Sony, we like them backwards compatible systems. I don't care, I wanna play Harry Potter & the Chamber of Secrets on my PS5 in 4K+ I want to feel those polygons in my eyes...
*cough* Lara Croft *Cough*
The music at the end always reminds me of a PS1 demo disc.
Sony shot themselves in the foot by always changing their policies... all of this make it confusing for the consumers. Without speaking about all the ressources wasted into HW and Emulator SW development.... At the end none of their consoles or online store provides the ultimate Playstation Experience where you can play whatever you would like to play and this is the reason why I am sticking to my PC
8:32 "Adding trophy support to emulated games..."
You should check out RetroAchievements, which is a crowd sourced effort to do just that. They use their own emulators and also RetroArch for play to watch for very specific memory values. Recently, I ripped my copy of SOTN and started a new playthrough on Halloween.
For anyone uninformed curious of what will work where:
- For PS1+2+3:
A PS3 original 60 GB Phat/launch model (not 40 or 80) will give you PS1, PS2 and PS3. If you find a US version it will play PS2 with hardware, EU version will play with software. Any other model will just play PS1 and 3, with select titles from PS2 released as "classics" on PSN. Some PS1 titles are also available digitally, in addition to the physical compatibility existing in all models of PS3.
- For PS4+5:
A PS5 disc version will play all PS4 games as well as PS5, naturally. The digital PS5 will only play games from your digital PS4 library unless there is some sort of deal for that specific game heading into the next generation from 4 to 5. No PS3 games will play on either unless the PS3 game was cross-platform PSN releases across PS3 and PS4 as a bundle.
For PSP+Vita:
- Any model of PS Vita will play Vita and PSP through emulation. As the Vita has no disc tray, the PSP games must be either 1) bought as select titles from the store, 2) illegally downloaded in a range of formats (most commonly #3) or you can 3) rip any physical game (common or extremely rare) and transfer them as ISOs/CSOs into the Vita. Step 2 and 3 require a hacked Vita, and number 3 requires a hacked PSP to begin with if you intend to rip the game yourself should you not find it online. Digitally purchased PSP titles are available on your account to download natively onto your Vita.
Both PSP and Vita can play PS1 games, some of which are available as PS1 classics on the PS3/PSP/Vita store. For those not released there, they must be either illegally downloaded or ripped on a PC and converted into playable formats on a hacked PSP/Vita.
To buy new PSP, Vita and PS3 titles digitally starting November 2020, you need to buy them on the PS3 store, as the PC store has shut down the sections for these platforms. The Vita still has its store up and running, but sadly it is only a matter of time before that also shuts down.
That's the complete breakdown of backwards compatibility. You're welcome.
@mPky1 Well, no, not really actually. I get that you want to keep PS2 compatibility and on that issue, I agree.
But I have had all models of PS3 and there's not much about the original fat that I miss nowadays. I admire the design and I used the memory card slots a lot, but it was always very loud and used twice as much power as the newer models. It was prone to overheating and was generally just bulky. In 2006 it was exclusive, but nowadays it has lost its place. I know people like the Slim, but I rather much like the Superslim actually. People dislike the disc tray but I kind of like it. If it ever breaks, it is a lot easier to repair than the specific parts needed for a motorised slot-in disc system. The Superslim is quiet, discrete, easy to transport and very friendly on the electrical bill. I have also never heard of a superslim getting YLOD or such. Plus, if you get a version with just the flash memory, you can get it dirt cheap and install your own hard drive to get all the benefits.
@mPky1 No, indeed, that doesn't happen very often. But when you do, it's nice to be able to pack the ss into a small laptop bag rather than finding the original box for the original, as it is so sensitive to shock damage and weighs almost 8 kilo. It's not a strong argument, but an advantage nonetheless. :)
@@Henkibojj The OG PS3 has absolutely not lost its place. It's by far the best of the PS3 models to have nowadays due to the backwards compatibility. There's almost no PS3 exclusive games you can't get elsewhere now, but you can play PS1, PS2, and even PSP games (with modding) over HDMI on a single system. That's 4 consoles in one system.
Yes, it's loud and draws more power, but honestly with how much it'll be used the convenience of having 4 consoles in one box outweighs the extra, like, 5 cents per hour.
I gave the video a thumbs up before watching, knew it would be good and it didn't disappoint.
Also, sweet Neo Geo shirt!
To be honest, I'm not confident in future backward compatibility after learning how they locked the Dual Sense controller to PS5 only.
While they do good backward compatibility with PS4 it's more because for the first time they both share the same underlying core architecture.
They will more likely repackage and resell old games than ever allow old games to run on current systems.
Well... it’s weird that the PHATT ps3 had the components of the ps2
Umm how do you know "Sony does good backwards compatibility"? They've been vague as heck... Please don't tell me you take their word for it.
i remember in one talk before the PS5's release, they were talking about how their new immersive 3d audio tech was kind of a decendant of the cell processor in the PS3, and i was really hoping that this would mean that the hardware chip they used for that in the PS5 would double up as a cell processor for use in PS3 emulation, since it wouldn't need to be doing audio work at the time. i really wish that was indeed what happened, oh well...
maybe the homebrew on the ps5 will allow using ps3 and ps4 and run them in emulation on the ps5 disc version
BTW, the Atari 5200 had backwards compatibility with the 2600 via an adaptor sold separately, which predates the 7800's backwards compatibility. Of course, built in backwards compatibility like in the 7800 is always preferred.
For me backwards compatibility is important due to the nature of the content, I’d rather watch the original predator movie then watch the new mind numbing one due to the sad direction of the current industry.
Personal I would rather play PS1 Diablo then a lot of the newer games for example.
Another quality video! Well done
Is your music available on vinyl? Or would I have to download your soundcloud & do it myself?
download the video and strip the audio out
Why do you want it on vinyl? It's a digital recording dingus
Bruh you're missing the point. That's like saying that it has to be mastered on a reel to reel machine on chrome tape at high speed to be able to put it on a record.
@@ChrisStoneinator Digital recordings have been around since 70s many that have been pressed to vinyl? I don't understand the point you're trying to make?
@@Bangulo no they haven't, not in the major label space anyway. First notable digital recording was Brothers in Arms. And yes exactly, vinyl is pointless for anything recorded since then. That *is* the point I'm trying to make. I can't think of a single exception.
I never bought a PS4 because of no backward compatibility. I also never bought any PS4 accessories or PS4 games. How much money did Sony loose because of this? How many other people did the same, and how much money is that worth to Sony?
I love my PS2: at the time, it played a new-fangled movie-disc called DVD, and for the same (or less) than stand-alone DVD players. It also played cool new video games. It also played my old PS1 games. I bought this, a fair amount of accessories, and many new games.
I used to love my PS3: at the time it would play some new-fangled thing called Blu-Ray movies, it played my PS1 games, and played my PS2 games (with some very minor issues on a few games). I bought a few accessories, and a few games, but it died before I could spend a lot of $$$
I kept waiting to hear that PS4 would support PS1 or PS2 games (I understand PS3 is more challenging, so not waiting for that). But it never happened and never bought it... and thus never bought any PS4 games or accessories.
I would like to buy PS5, and games and accessories for it, but not if the only backwards compatibility is PS4.
I've been spending my time and money on XBOX games, PC games, and older PS1/2 games in the meantime. Does Sony want me to buy Microsoft products and use emulators (or old hardware) to play classic games (and not buy new Sony games)? That doesn't seem financially smart, but apparently I am the small minority?
Despite largely preferring Xbox to playstation, I can safely say that the PlayStation 2 and 3 have some of the best games ever. I would easily use a PlayStation 4 if that meant I could play all or at least most of the games that I personally grew up with and still play to this day. I think Sony/PlayStation are still yet to see their potential.
Hack your PS4
@@at-cj2iy I already have a 2nd PS4 which is jailbroken thank you.
Thanks for the quality entertainment.
I know this is EXTREMELY pedantic, but if my understanding and recent googling is correct, the Sega Mark III (Master System worldwide) was capable of playing SG-1000 cartridges, so that provides an earlier example of CONSOLE backwards compatibility by about one year.
There also appears to have been an Atari 2600 adaptor for Atari 5200, but it is kind of obscure and hard to find a reliable release date for online, but could very well have been the earliest example of (non-integrated) backwards compatibility in a home console.
Either the Intellivision or the Colecovision (I often get the two confused) had a first-party peripheral that basically bolted a cloned Atari 2600 onto the machine and let you play that console's games. Would that count as backwards compatibility? Does it have to be the same company? Would it even matter, as I don't know whether it came before or after the 5200's adaptor?
@@LonelySpaceDetective Yeah, I thought about that too, but for me it's hard to say it's "backwards compatible" since the intellivison spent most of its life as a competitor to the VCS, so is part of the same "generation."
EA should remaster Dead Space 1,2 e 3 for the actual consoles and next gen.
Yes!
EA should?
I mean theres a lot EA should do.
we asked for burnout we got paradise.
they consistenly bring down franchises and companies
There's not much to remaster, they still look great and can be played on Xbox One via the 360 discs.
@@EternalReplicant Sadly the xbox Version is the worst.
But it should be in the gamepass when ea Access is inluded 👍🏿
Great video as always MVG 👍
What does "pro legacy mode" mean? the others are pretty self explanatory. Can anyone help pls? :)
It allows for PS4 Pro enhanced titles to run as they would on a PS4 Pro system, rather than as on a base PS4 model.
@@nitrax8629 Ohh of course, Thanks Nitrax. I know what legacy meant since i'm a computer analyst but I didn't put the 2 together. Thanks again buddy!
Backwards compatibility is mainly about the knowledge that your current library of games doesn't become worthless, even if in reality you won't actually get around to use it much. Also, with the new PC-like improvements old titles get even without patches it may become a much more popular feature than before.
Sony fanboys: "I don't care about PS3 backwards compatibility, who wants to play a bunch of old PS3 games anyway?"
Also Sony fanboys: "I can't wait to pay $70 for the Demon's Souls remake!"
the majority of good games from the PS3/360 generation were remastered into the new one, of course, some exceptions like skate 3, red dead, mgs4, god Ascension stood behind, but it is like half a dozen games of worth games to play, it is really not worth it to make such a move of emulating this complicated system because of then.
The PS2 and PS1 library are the biggest and most unique game libraries out there, and it is completely easy to emulate, literally thousands of games and Sony simply doesn't let us play them in new hardware, this makes no sense and this is highly demanded.
It’s a remake not a re release . The ps3 is very hard to emulate and even with the excellent emulator pc has rn lots of games can only be booted . You can’t blame Sony for not even trying
Ave Eddie. Absolutely ave.
@@parsashirali8957 I like this excuse but I feel like Sony is letting its legacy slip by not investing a lot of R&D into emulation efforts for its older systems. It just makes the PC platform look more attractive since it can play a decent amount of games from almost every console platform. You could buy a very Cheap PC and still have access to thousands of games you can play. 10 years ago, I built a PC that was only meant to play games from the NES to PS1 and it had a Single Core Processor with 256 MBs of Ram. The Computer itself cost me like 30 bucks. Now, with stuff like Raspberry Pi 3 and 4, you can get even more out of a low end build that is only meant for emulation.
Sony can concentrate on making money but that doesn't mean that something isn't lost by just leaving Metal Gear Solid on the PS3.
@@nobro_i_ate_u To add onto your comment then Sony complains about Rom sites while doing very little to support their old libraries outside of people trying to buy old hardware from Ebay and retro stores. Note: Granted Nintendo and Microsoft get annoyed by Rom sites too but Microsoft has done more to address preserving the classics same with Nintendo (somewhat)
3:43 We are totally talking about the Xbox 360 right now!
I hope Xbox's amazing backwards compatibility team/program has given them some amount of kick in the pants to catch up.
Still got my 2 original A01's, a B01, and an E01. Had yellow light on both A01's, replaced the tantalum caps, and they are both good as, if not better than, new. Will never get rid of these, simply for their versatility.
Likely the B01 and E01 will need tantalums replaced soon too, but, still holding up. Replaced drive lasers in one of the A01 models, and the E01.
Yellow light is very easily repairable these days. If you find one out in the wild for cheap, scoop it up, as there is an incredibly high chance that it's the capacitors causing the YLOD.
Damn, over 1,000 views in the first 10 minutes of release. Sweet.
Always great breaking down videos
the PS3 YLOD or 'RROD' as you may have mistakenly referenced, can usually be repaired by replacing the faulty NEC/TOKIN capacitors
The proper method is to debug the board over a serial connection to syscon.
Wish that i know this before throwing mh fat ps3 ...
Wtf, I didn't know sony had so many dumb and impacting hardware revisions.
That sounds like it's enough material for a whole new video.
Thing is also just didn't help them with the PS3 in general, the hardware was impressive but very unique to the PS3.
So quite a few titles actually ran worse than on the 360, bayonetta for example ran at full 60fps, whereas on ps3 it ran at 30fps with fps drops.
If they had opted for a typical choice at the time like PowerPC and nvidia/amd would've been interesting to see how it would've turned out, plus I suspect PS2 would've been much easier to emu software wise.
But towards mid-gen and later it was less of an issue
Same with sega, how many revisions do they have off the genesis including license versions of it, wich are not all fully compatible with all games or accessoires, what a shame , hack even poor genesis clones from atgames were licensed.
@@NonsensicalSpudz SPU is the problem they are pain to code and sony itself said they make it harder to develop on purpose, just to prolong the console life cycle. that is why the devs is lazy and that results in worse performance
@@NonsensicalSpudz But when devs did crack the Cell's capability like Naughty Dog did with the Last of Us the results were fantastic, TLOU was really not far from next gen looks wise, in fact the PS4 version really doesn't look much better than the PS3 version. The Cell was originally designed to do the GPU side of things as well as the CPU side, but due to devs feedback SONY decided to implement an Nvidia GPU last minute. The Cell was far from ever being fully utilized in any game unfortunately, the 360 had a better GPU and was easier to optimize games for hence it was the better choice for buying multiplat games with only a handful of exceptions where the devs made use of the Cells SPE's to make their game shine on the PS3, only a dozen or so mostly first party games did make use of them, a multiplat game for example that did is Oblivion, it looked better and loaded faster, Enchanted Arms is another that was better on PS3, and a 2 or 3 others. There are quite a few 1st party games that left the 360 for dust in the graphical department thanks to the Cell, Uncharted 2 & 3, TLAOU, Killzone 2, Motorstorm series, Ratchet and Clank games, the Cell also allowed for some really awesome A.I in games (the Resistance games for instance) as well as some dope physics, Resistance 2 used 6 SPE's for A.I and physics among other things.
@@NonsensicalSpudz this happened a lot. Not as dramatic but, on Red Dead I remember at the time, the PS3 version (which I had) was more crippled than the 360 version. If I remember correctly the 360 version have a higher resolution, 720p vs 640p? I think? And there was more grass density around the map on the Xbox.
Good Guy MVG. Doesn't beg his viewers in the beginning of the video to thumbs up, subscribe, and hit that bell notification. Only ask for a thumbs up at the end of the video briefly. Thanks MVG
I always wondered what the limitations were with the PS3 models. Early systems had backwards compatibility. Later they took it away. 4 only digital emulation. The 5 needs to deliver something awesome to floor it's competition.
Hope one day backwards compatibility becomes a part of the PS5. Any PS game is playable. Sure newer games are great and all, but what if you want to dive into a classic?
If it's competition can do it. Why can't the 5? 🤔 Seriously it just doesn't make sense
I almost went "He explained in the video why Sony doesn't have BC anymore", but you did bring up something new- if the competition can do it, why can't Sony?
The answer lies in how they have promised near complete BC with PS4 games, save for a few titles who are basically just gone because the developers have totally abandoned them. It all comes down to the changes in hardware design- the code, the machinery, the very circuits, the everything that makes the PS3 what it is, is VERY different from the code / machinery / circuits that makes the PS4 what it is, and the PS3 was in turn substantially different from the PS2... while the PS2 and PS1 were a bit more similar, and the PS4 and PS5 are also much alike.
Sony were FAR too ambitious with the PS3. They wanted to make a monster machine capable of incredible feats, and upended almost everything about their machines architecture to reach their goals. In comparison to Microsoft when they went from Xbox to X360...
Let's use a simile- Microsoft and Sony have built two different offices. When Microsoft wanted to upgrade its office they just added another section to their building- all that was good about their old building (you know where the bathrooms were, you know which rooms have reliable lighting) and all that was bad (the room that gets cold still gets cold, the room that drains s lot of electricity still drains a lot etc) was left intact, just with a new addition to their old building that let them do some new things.
Sony in comparison tore down EVERYTHING and built something completely new, and nobody really knew where the bathrooms were, nobody knew how to get from the cafeteria to the apartment in the most efficient way, and while Sony SAYS it's new architecture means that once you learn how to get around the new building your life will be so much better, everyone who had to use the office was losing money working there because they had to spend so much time figuring things out rather than getting their work done, whereas if they worked at Microsofts office they could just do what they'd always done and get right back to work. Sure, they still had to worry about all the old problems, but at least they already KNEW about those problems. Sony's new office meant new opportunities, but also new, unknown problems.
But between PS4 and PS5, Sony has copied MS style. The PS5 is pretty similar to PS4 but a bit more powerful, it's easy to make what worked on PS4 work on PS5. But to emulate PS3... it might just look like a more powerful machine should have no problem making a less powerful machines games work easy, but it's not that simple. To return to the simile, whenever you worked in the PS3 office, everything you did had to work according to that office's architecture. They totally tore that arcitecture down when they made the PS4 office again because it turns out the PS3 architecture ultimately WASN'T a good thing, but now all the plans and blueprints for the work done in PS3 office depends completely ON that office. You have to recreate the hallways, bathrooms, cafeteria etc that was in that office, you can't just do what worked but in the new office. For MS it's simple because they've kept almost ALL their old offices looking exactly the same, it's easy as pie to retrace your steps, doesn't take a lot of manhours at alll.
But Sony were ambitious and wanted new offices, and now whenever they want to revisit old projects they have to recreate their steps, everytime, and almost every old project is different so they have to do a lot more work... and they pretty much decided that all this extra work would cost them more in r&d than they'd make back from paying customers. MS has to do a lot less work becaude their fundamental architecture hasn't really changed over the years. Sony's did, and our current world is the end-result.
Yes it make sense, it's all about the CPU architecture. Ps4 and Xbox one are custom PC, PS5 and Series S/X are the same, no problems for BC. PS3 is a weird monster, one of the most complex architecture to date on console (and a nightmare to code for) Making a dedicated emulator for that can't be done with two lines of code. On PS4 It would have been literally impossible to make (in terms of raw power, the PS3 CPU is faster than the PS4's).
It "should" be possible to play PS3 games on PS5, but developing an emulator cost money (Yeah, on PC you have the fantastic RPCS3, a fan made project that's really amazing, but really far from perfect) and players who would use it are a minority. It's all about money and if it's worth it for Sony. But yeah, that would be pretty cool. ^^
PS2 emulation is mature on PC, and doesn't require high-end specs, and you can use your original game disc directly.
Backwards compatibility is the only reason I switched to Xbox, I missed entire generation of 360/PS3. Xbox offered it, so I gladly switched
Why did you switch to Xbox for backward compatibility and not to PC? PC is the king of backward compatibility.
Because I like to game on my TV than my monitor
I loved the PS2 library so much I had to re-buy an 80 Gig PS3 that supports software emulation BC. Over the years Sony has become one of the most anti-consumer companies in existence. The lack of BC on the PS4 and PS5 only being restricted to PS4 BC indicates to me that they have nothing but disdain for their loyal customers. As of now, I have zero interest in PS5. As for Xbox, I applaud their effort, but I don't appreciate releases of BC titles in drips and drabs.
Keep up the great vids mate, absolutely smashing it!
I merely wish for GTA Sa on future consoles WITH MULTIPLAYER! I am aware there is a PC Mod for GTA Sa multiplayer - SAMP. But I still play xbox -Xbox 360 and the living room and all is so comfortable. Keyboards for gaming isn't a strong skill for me.
You can mod the original PC version of GTA SA to accept Xinput controllers, making it compatible with Xbox 360 and Xbox One controllers.
there is a mod for xinput/dinput support on gta:sa for pc
@@pixel-jy3be Isn't that the exact thing I said? :D
@@tranquility6358 thanks you have just reminded me of that program however still, you need a keybpoard to navigate menus and chat bar commands. I did not find a way to make it work some years ago.
Plug the PC into the TV and use a controller
I still have my PS3 60GB A01, 14 years old and still going strong, my son loves it!
My thoughts are that I’m done with Sony, I’ll stick to PC
The fact that they never put PS1 games on the PS4 store or PS Now honestly baffles me. That seems like such an easy win for them, and the self imposed commitment to added trophy support is such a bizarre thing to me. There are PS3 games that still don't have trophy support because they pre-date the concept (including some that are currently on PS Now), so why are they trying to shoehorn that stuff into older titles if it costs them time and money?