You must be kidding right? both of those shows came out after 2020, one in 2020 and the other in 2022. the Venice came out 3 years earlier and it was all over Africa, Morocco, Egypt, Nigeria, South Africa, You name it, that camera was a go to for a lot of reasons then You show up and say that a show that came out in 2020 and 2022 were the first African production to use the Venice 1. damn, You must be one of those fools who take their surroundings for an entire continent with 54 nations, you're embarrassing us man and making us bad 😂
@@KillingTheMost Sony still marketed that camera as 8k. Maybe you should sell your camera. Quote from Sony Professional: "It’s the secret of unparalleled emotion and story-telling power. With a resolution of 20 megapixels, the Super 35mm 8K CMOS sensor inside the F65 delivers unprecedented 8K/4K/QFHD/2K/HD images with extremely fine texture and low aliasing."
Did you guys do a review of the sigma fp? It would be cool to see that camera used by people with good lenses and who could also compare it to other cinema cameras.
The Venice 2 (and the Burano too, but that lacks open gate as of now) is probably the greatest camera Sony has ever made, and the first model of Venice isn’t far behind - such a remarkable product that totally changed my mind about Sony and is capable of such marvelous imagery and works to a true professional standard.
About Venice 2: PROS: - Beautiful Image Quality with very clean dual base ISOs, high dynamic range and latitude - Many imager crop modes (with the licenses) - Many I/O and power options - The 8.6k 3x2 open gate mode is among the best choices for 1.8x or 2x anamorphic filming retaining at least 4k resolution after cropping for 2.39, 17x9 or other narrower ratios. CONS: - No proxy recording (available on other Sony CineAlta cameras including Venice 1 and Burano) - Lack of a downsampled full frame 6k or 4k mode in X-OCN - No 6K 60p (FF crop), 5.8K 60p (S35) modes as developed for the Burano with the same sensor - Via NLEs, Sony Venice 2 X-OCN is currently only fully supported natively by Resolve (Avid requires a plug-in, Premiere can read the files without raw setting development, zero support in FCP). - Sony RAW viewer software is old & slow and will play / transcode Venice 2 X-OCN files but does not playback audio making it difficult to transcode sections. Assimilate Scratch is far better & faster. - Sony's Catalyst Browse cannot play or process the video files from the Venice 2 (you can hear audio only... - No gyro stabilization (not even if you spend an additional $20k on the Extension System 2) - ProRes recording is limited to 4k only, specific imager modes & lesser frame rates - Many frame rate options are MOS only (no sound) - Sony shipped a camera in 2022 with a USB-A port (likely to prevent users from being able to use the camera to read the cards over USB-C...which would have been nice when trying to avoid travel with the absurdly large AR3 card reader) - That $4000 AR3 card reader is massive...has only a single slot...and requires a separate power brick. It is the most ridiculous card reader of the 21st century. I guess they felt they had to make it big to validate ripping customers off. - The camera design is a low effort update compared to the Venice 1 and F55 before it. It's overly large & heavy compared to its chief competitors - an Arri MiniLF or Arri 35. - Does not come with a power adapter - Sony is moving on to the Burano - they barely marketed the Venice 2 and the feature / firmware updates are far and few between - The Sony Burano does not require a user to spend an additional $4k for a full frame license or an additional $4k for anamorphic license and it uses industry standard media rather than 1TB AxS cards that cost over $4k a piece. - When Sony releases the new 6k global shutter sensor for Venice, ported over from the Sony a9III, it's unlikely they will release it as a sensor block option for the Venice 2. They'll likely require a Venice 3 killing the value of this camera after owners & rental houses made it through the production slowdown and strikes. - This camera is a money-pit for owners. Better to rent it from independents or smaller rental operations per project.
Yep, I know, my comment is only for information that the Venice line is not suitable for everyone; for many projects Arri and RED will be preferable@@CVPTV
@@MrlegendOr Red still gets a fair bit of usage, no need to be a hater my dude. It's just a tool, no reason to get so attached to (or hateful of) a brand.
@@TwatMcGee I love RED they have great products not their fanboy who need to bash other brand all the time to feel better about themselves. When Arri and Sony's biggest cam users do things with their camera and win prizes, RED fanboys are on all the videos that praise other brand to run a bashing session.
how does this compare with how the Blackmagic 6k sensor is implemented? Is that sensor stacked rather than just one? I'm speaking of the full frame version
The Venice 6K uses the IMX310 sensor, same as the Sony A9/A9ii, with a ton more of the features enabled, including high speed 16 bit readout. But it's a very power-hungry sensor. It has on-chip DRAM so I guess you can say it is stacked. That's what gives it the speed. The IMX410 used in the BMCC6K will give you similar quality, really no different if you expose properly in terms of detail and dynamic range. The Venice will be better at the absolute extreme end as the 16 bit depth means you'll get much more data in the shadows but really, if you light properly it won't be an issue. I shoot on an S5iiX and S5 original, same sensor essentially as the BMCC6K, and with RAW they give very similar image quality to the Venice in terms of detail, texture and dynamic range. Rolling shutter is the weakness but you have S35 4K which still looks great.
I think it's time for Sony to offer global shutter sensor that could easily blend with the 2 offerings. But I'm not buying it because to me it's like looking into a space craft vs car (A7SIII).
Even if monitors were 16-bit they can't actually picture 16-bit color because there aren't nearly enough pixels to represent the number of colors. Bit depth ostensibly gives more brightness data but even 14 bits will provide 16,384 brightness levels which is enough to contain the brightness data of 64 individual 8 bit images. If we currently can easily shoot HDR's with 1 to 3 images in camera then you can see how have the ability to shoot 64 images for an HDR is serious overkill. Even with 16,384 brightness levels there is the requirement that in any transitional area in the image there be 16,384 individual pixels to comprise the full 14-bits of gradient data. Since a 4k monitor is 3,820 pixels on its long edge a 4k monitor cannot display the full gradient of a 14-bit image even when the gradient covers the entire screen. Of course, very few images contain gradients from light to dark that span the full image width. Considering all these factors I would like to know what Sony claims the benefit of a 16 bit image is or is this statistic simple BS? A true deep color 6k image should be around 127MB per frame resulting in 3,810 MB per second of data for a 30fps video stream. As far as I know, no storage media is capable of those kinds of write speeds for extended periods of time. This doesn't even begin to touch on the amount of light required to deliver 16 bits of image data to the sensor. For a 16-bit image 65,536 photons are required per photo site on the sensor for every exposure. For a perfect distribution on a 6k sensor this amounts to 1.4 trillion photons per exposure. Does the company mention the amount of light required to reach 16-bits of resolution? Of course in low light scenarios the limits of photon resolution can easily be seen. Remember your lighting rules, as you move further from a light source the light intensity falls by half for every doubling of the distance. Meaning that in artificial light you'll be losing tons of resolution if the lens isn't positioned right on top of the actor's face.
Bit depth doesn't give more brightness range, you can have a vast range with 8 bit. Bit depth doesn't just come into play when a photosite is full, it is actually possibly more important when it is only partially full as this is when you want the greatest possible precision so you can better separate subtle textures or better separate noise from the desirable image. A deeper bit depths gives improved accuracy and the ability to capture very subtle textures. By recording at 16 bit we can record a very large dynamic range, with great accuracy without needing to resort to logarithmic encoding. You must remember that for each stop in brightness we go up in the real world we need twice as many code values to record it. If we want to record what the scene was actually like, if we have an abundance of code values then we can allocate a decent chunk of them to the all important mid range without sacrificing highlight accuracy as happens if you use a lower bit depth and log encoding. One of the points of this type of workflow is to store a digital image that represents the actual light levels in the scene so that the data can be taken in to post production for manipulation. It's know as a scene referred workflow. Having a very "thick" digital negative allows you to expose brighter or darker to best suit the scenes light distribution without any impact on the quality of the final image. It allows you to stretch out shadows without issue, allows you to separate different colours more easily for manipulation. The sensor in Venice 2 has a 14 bit analog to digital converter. But when you compress the 14 bit data you will introduce new values beyond the original 14 bit values due to compression and coding errors. By recording at 16 bit and keeping the errors you maintain the best possible accuracy and don't introduce additional rounding errors. Sony's X-OCN codec is very efficient and gently compresses the raw data using a mix of wavelet and other encoding techniques. The bit rates the original 6K camera records go as high as 6.6Gb/s. The Sony AXS media can happily sustain this.
I can't even imagine how great a updated Venice with a 32mp global shutter ff sensor would do in a Venice. & will truly catapult Venice into arri territory. But getting arri dr is gonnna be a challenge not to mention the color science but still will be far cheaper.
You should check out CineD's lab testing of the Venice 2. The rolling shutter performance is WILD - like, it's so low that it is just about a global shutter. DR is in second place behind ARRI if you don't count the XOCN modes
Arri and Red skin tone color science kills this. ..when they are not too saturated Sony has a terrible cyan tone in the highlight roll off on the nose , forehead , or cheeks. I would rather buy a used red vista vision or any 4 k Alexa than a new Sony
![[ ออกกอง ] วัยหนุ่ม 2544 โลกหลังลูกกรง..ทัวร์กองถ่ายหนังใน "คุกของจริง" | JUSTดูIT.](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/vB--aOkZCpw/mqdefault.jpg)
The Sony VENICE is still an amazing camera! What would you want to shoot with one?! 🎥
We were the first African production to utilise the Venice 1 on Queen Sono and The Brave Ones and I fell in love from day one with this camera system
Hi am happy that you commented am Zambian filmmaker
You must be kidding right? both of those shows came out after 2020, one in 2020 and the other in 2022.
the Venice came out 3 years earlier and it was all over Africa, Morocco, Egypt, Nigeria, South Africa, You name it, that camera was a go to for a lot of reasons then You show up and say that a show that came out in 2020 and 2022 were the first African production to use the Venice 1.
damn, You must be one of those fools who take their surroundings for an entire continent with 54 nations, you're embarrassing us man and making us bad 😂
@CVP you should do one on the F65. That camera was soooooo ahead of its time. 8k raw in 2011 is insane
20 megapixel sensor bud, go sell your cameras if Google is too challenging.
@@KillingTheMost Sony still marketed that camera as 8k. Maybe you should sell your camera.
Quote from Sony Professional:
"It’s the secret of unparalleled emotion and story-telling power. With a resolution of 20 megapixels, the Super 35mm 8K CMOS sensor inside the F65 delivers unprecedented 8K/4K/QFHD/2K/HD images with extremely fine texture and low aliasing."
I have an F65 it is a beast of a camera which competes with my Arri Alexa and actually beats it in most aspects
One of my favorite camera channel out there so informative and well shot and well delivered incredible work as always ❤🔥
Thanks for the kind words and watching! Jake
Love these camera throwback videos. Keep them coming!
informative video on very useful camera, Thanks CVP.
Did you guys do a review of the sigma fp? It would be cool to see that camera used by people with good lenses and who could also compare it to other cinema cameras.
i love these breakdowns. would you consider doing one on the Nikon Z9/8 at some point?
The Venice 2 (and the Burano too, but that lacks open gate as of now) is probably the greatest camera Sony has ever made, and the first model of Venice isn’t far behind - such a remarkable product that totally changed my mind about Sony and is capable of such marvelous imagery and works to a true professional standard.
This camera needs to be Relevant just like Arri Alexa mini🥰🥰🥰🥰
About Venice 2:
PROS:
- Beautiful Image Quality with very clean dual base ISOs, high dynamic range and latitude
- Many imager crop modes (with the licenses)
- Many I/O and power options
- The 8.6k 3x2 open gate mode is among the best choices for 1.8x or 2x anamorphic filming retaining at least 4k resolution after cropping for 2.39, 17x9 or other narrower ratios.
CONS:
- No proxy recording (available on other Sony CineAlta cameras including Venice 1 and Burano)
- Lack of a downsampled full frame 6k or 4k mode in X-OCN
- No 6K 60p (FF crop), 5.8K 60p (S35) modes as developed for the Burano with the same sensor
- Via NLEs, Sony Venice 2 X-OCN is currently only fully supported natively by Resolve (Avid requires a plug-in, Premiere can read the files without raw setting development, zero support in FCP).
- Sony RAW viewer software is old & slow and will play / transcode Venice 2 X-OCN files but does not playback audio making it difficult to transcode sections. Assimilate Scratch is far better & faster.
- Sony's Catalyst Browse cannot play or process the video files from the Venice 2 (you can hear audio only...
- No gyro stabilization (not even if you spend an additional $20k on the Extension System 2)
- ProRes recording is limited to 4k only, specific imager modes & lesser frame rates
- Many frame rate options are MOS only (no sound)
- Sony shipped a camera in 2022 with a USB-A port (likely to prevent users from being able to use the camera to read the cards over USB-C...which would have been nice when trying to avoid travel with the absurdly large AR3 card reader)
- That $4000 AR3 card reader is massive...has only a single slot...and requires a separate power brick. It is the most ridiculous card reader of the 21st century. I guess they felt they had to make it big to validate ripping customers off.
- The camera design is a low effort update compared to the Venice 1 and F55 before it. It's overly large & heavy compared to its chief competitors - an Arri MiniLF or Arri 35.
- Does not come with a power adapter
- Sony is moving on to the Burano - they barely marketed the Venice 2 and the feature / firmware updates are far and few between
- The Sony Burano does not require a user to spend an additional $4k for a full frame license or an additional $4k for anamorphic license and it uses industry standard media rather than 1TB AxS cards that cost over $4k a piece.
- When Sony releases the new 6k global shutter sensor for Venice, ported over from the Sony a9III, it's unlikely they will release it as a sensor block option for the Venice 2. They'll likely require a Venice 3 killing the value of this camera after owners & rental houses made it through the production slowdown and strikes.
- This camera is a money-pit for owners. Better to rent it from independents or smaller rental operations per project.
Did you watch the video? It’s about VENICE 1. Jake
Yep, I know, my comment is only for information that the Venice line is not suitable for everyone; for many projects Arri and RED will be preferable@@CVPTV
@@videograph RED FanBoy here! Little bit Jealous? cause No one Want your RED anymore. Cinema industry have moved on. They prefer Arri or Sony �
@@MrlegendOr Red still gets a fair bit of usage, no need to be a hater my dude. It's just a tool, no reason to get so attached to (or hateful of) a brand.
@@TwatMcGee I love RED they have great products not their fanboy who need to bash other brand all the time to feel better about themselves. When Arri and Sony's biggest cam users do things with their camera and win prizes, RED fanboys are on all the videos that praise other brand to run a bashing session.
15:01 What does the low price for a used bundle tells us about the demand?
Great oldschool shot at the 15:59 🔥
how does this compare with how the Blackmagic 6k sensor is implemented? Is that sensor stacked rather than just one? I'm speaking of the full frame version
IQ should be similar, but the Venice has a much faster reading sensor. The BMCC 6k does 6k 36p open gate vs 6k 60p open gate on the Venice.
The Venice 6K uses the IMX310 sensor, same as the Sony A9/A9ii, with a ton more of the features enabled, including high speed 16 bit readout. But it's a very power-hungry sensor. It has on-chip DRAM so I guess you can say it is stacked. That's what gives it the speed.
The IMX410 used in the BMCC6K will give you similar quality, really no different if you expose properly in terms of detail and dynamic range. The Venice will be better at the absolute extreme end as the 16 bit depth means you'll get much more data in the shadows but really, if you light properly it won't be an issue.
I shoot on an S5iiX and S5 original, same sensor essentially as the BMCC6K, and with RAW they give very similar image quality to the Venice in terms of detail, texture and dynamic range. Rolling shutter is the weakness but you have S35 4K which still looks great.
What is the rolling shutter readout speed of the Sony Venice?
3ms
Actually the clip you showed from the new Mission Impossible movie was from a scene that was shot on a Z Cam.
I’m shooting home videos with my Venice. 😎
Great video! Is that teddington lock?
Thanks and it is indeed! Jake
@@CVPTV Amazing, are you guys local?
@@coachsayf Their london office is in Brentford, so not too far!
@@TwatMcGee Nice thanks for the info, & incredible username 😂
I think it's time for Sony to offer global shutter sensor that could easily blend with the 2 offerings. But I'm not buying it because to me it's like looking into a space craft vs car (A7SIII).
The 4k mandate is the worst thing that has happened to cinema, probably like, ever.
Sony has been in cinema for years.
I hope Sony moves to the CF Express Type B for cinema cameras.
Great camera, but not in our price range 😅
We want to hop on the Sony cinema line with the FX6.
this video probably applies to 5% of the viewers
Even if monitors were 16-bit they can't actually picture 16-bit color because there aren't nearly enough pixels to represent the number of colors. Bit depth ostensibly gives more brightness data but even 14 bits will provide 16,384 brightness levels which is enough to contain the brightness data of 64 individual 8 bit images. If we currently can easily shoot HDR's with 1 to 3 images in camera then you can see how have the ability to shoot 64 images for an HDR is serious overkill. Even with 16,384 brightness levels there is the requirement that in any transitional area in the image there be 16,384 individual pixels to comprise the full 14-bits of gradient data. Since a 4k monitor is 3,820 pixels on its long edge a 4k monitor cannot display the full gradient of a 14-bit image even when the gradient covers the entire screen. Of course, very few images contain gradients from light to dark that span the full image width. Considering all these factors I would like to know what Sony claims the benefit of a 16 bit image is or is this statistic simple BS? A true deep color 6k image should be around 127MB per frame resulting in 3,810 MB per second of data for a 30fps video stream. As far as I know, no storage media is capable of those kinds of write speeds for extended periods of time. This doesn't even begin to touch on the amount of light required to deliver 16 bits of image data to the sensor. For a 16-bit image 65,536 photons are required per photo site on the sensor for every exposure. For a perfect distribution on a 6k sensor this amounts to 1.4 trillion photons per exposure. Does the company mention the amount of light required to reach 16-bits of resolution? Of course in low light scenarios the limits of photon resolution can easily be seen. Remember your lighting rules, as you move further from a light source the light intensity falls by half for every doubling of the distance. Meaning that in artificial light you'll be losing tons of resolution if the lens isn't positioned right on top of the actor's face.
Bit depth doesn't give more brightness range, you can have a vast range with 8 bit. Bit depth doesn't just come into play when a photosite is full, it is actually possibly more important when it is only partially full as this is when you want the greatest possible precision so you can better separate subtle textures or better separate noise from the desirable image. A deeper bit depths gives improved accuracy and the ability to capture very subtle textures. By recording at 16 bit we can record a very large dynamic range, with great accuracy without needing to resort to logarithmic encoding. You must remember that for each stop in brightness we go up in the real world we need twice as many code values to record it. If we want to record what the scene was actually like, if we have an abundance of code values then we can allocate a decent chunk of them to the all important mid range without sacrificing highlight accuracy as happens if you use a lower bit depth and log encoding. One of the points of this type of workflow is to store a digital image that represents the actual light levels in the scene so that the data can be taken in to post production for manipulation. It's know as a scene referred workflow. Having a very "thick" digital negative allows you to expose brighter or darker to best suit the scenes light distribution without any impact on the quality of the final image. It allows you to stretch out shadows without issue, allows you to separate different colours more easily for manipulation.
The sensor in Venice 2 has a 14 bit analog to digital converter. But when you compress the 14 bit data you will introduce new values beyond the original 14 bit values due to compression and coding errors. By recording at 16 bit and keeping the errors you maintain the best possible accuracy and don't introduce additional rounding errors.
Sony's X-OCN codec is very efficient and gently compresses the raw data using a mix of wavelet and other encoding techniques. The bit rates the original 6K camera records go as high as 6.6Gb/s. The Sony AXS media can happily sustain this.
Where is the F65 vid? :)
I can't even imagine how great a updated Venice with a 32mp global shutter ff sensor would do in a Venice. & will truly catapult Venice into arri territory. But getting arri dr is gonnna be a challenge not to mention the color science but still will be far cheaper.
You should check out CineD's lab testing of the Venice 2. The rolling shutter performance is WILD - like, it's so low that it is just about a global shutter. DR is in second place behind ARRI if you don't count the XOCN modes
It was Ep1 of Star Wars that the F900 was used. Ep1 was 35mm Film as Sony hadn't completed the camera
Arri and Red skin tone color science kills this. ..when they are not too saturated Sony has a terrible cyan tone in the highlight roll off on the nose , forehead , or cheeks. I would rather buy a used red vista vision or any 4 k Alexa than a new Sony
The Venice looks like it would be very suitable for us darker skin people. You can see from the underexposed tests.
HOW IT COMPARE TO KOMODO WITH SPEEDBOOSTER MATE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!?
Le Arry, se la mangiano a colazione😂😂🤣😂
RED, Canon, Panasonic: Do I look like a spoon to you?�
Industry: Buy more Arri's and Sony's gears ���