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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 25 ก.ค. 2024
- Here is the lesson of the week, and it's a super important one - Using placement calculation to place the board out.
Your ability to consistently calculate placements with candidate spots will immensely help your game. Give this lesson a try and let me know what you think.
Looking forward to hearing your successes!
- DandyDrew - เกม
Loving the feedback on this video. Many of you have pointed out a few different nuances which were not mentioned here. The most important one has to do with the 5-4-10 over the 5-9-10. This is a really good point and something I didn’t mention in the video. I wanted to keep this more to the point and have the takeaway of attempting to calculate more boards and get better at finding your edge… or at least try your best to find it.
5-4-10 IS playable and will be mentioned in future iterations of this kind of content. With every pick, you have to understand the pros and cons of that move. The 5-4-10 is what we call an opening spot because it will open the 5-9 on the desert in most cases after someone takes the 6 5 11. This fundamentally changes the assessment for the 5-4-10 for 3 main reasons:
1. 5-9 might be a clear target for the 6-9-3 player to have a more complete OWS setup.
2. What is 5-4-10 + 4-9-11 playing for?… Army? Unlikely given green’s ability to dev. Road? Maybe but it’s not so clear.
3. Blocking spots - A common issue for 5-9-10 or 5-4-10 is the blocking spots: 5 wheat, 9 ore, and 4 brick and potentially 9 sheep will consistently mean that you will be blocked and slowed down throughout this game. While the 8-5-10 + 6-3-11 is unlikely to get blocked at all in the early to middle game.
As long as you can calculate the consequences of your ideas, you will go into games with a better sense of what you need to do to get the W. I appreciate all the love and support, and know I try my best to take all the feedback and comments to continue to improve this experience and teaches. Thanks everyone!
- DandyDrew
Here I am again, tryharding some game to crush my friends lmao
fuck my friends bro they shoulda known better than to settle against me 😤
I’m in the exact same boat lololol sweating over a board game
So True💀
Lmfao
Facts I was in a toxic game bruh
Thanks man, this was such a good video! When you first put up the board I was looking at the 6,9,3 for first pick and what you pointed out makes so much sense and I feel like those problems with it have happened to me a couple times causing losses.
This was amazing. Please do more like these
Well done. Made a seemingly complicated process pretty simple for me
DandyDrew coming in clutch with the big lesson session
This was a really good video, thanks so much for sharing. I play a lot of pokemon online too (mainly randbats,) and i find that the less time I spend analyzing my team in the early game, the higher the chances I have of throwing the game because I didn't analyze my team's weaknesses.
Love your videos Drew. Keep at the great content!
Thanks BuraKaii. Nice to see some discord player representation around the channel. Take care!
This is why I feel like first position is the toughest position
I think second to last has it the roughest.
It’s not, just take the best ore with two other resources as long as their pips aren’t horrible.
@@David_1789
Sounds like a losing strategy considering you are not taking into consideration any aspect of the board
Great video loved the talk thru
very interesting, im gonna rewatch 100%
Thanks for the lesson. I totally thought 6-9-3, best brick, best ore! But after placing it out you see that you don’t have a complimentary out.
Exactly what I thought
its because of the 9 4 11. if that didn't exist, then 6 9 3 would be the best by far.
I have 2 go to strategies. Load up on stone and weat and load up on brick and wood. I usually go for 1 of these 2 depending where the other houses are placed.
placement helps a lot! can you explain the perfect pace to keep and “buying phases” like should i settle or buy a city right now
These are my favorite episodes
awesome video! pls keep going!!!!
Thanks for the great video! I learned a lot, but it opens a practical question: How you do that in one minute (or even less)? I'm a beginner playing on Colonist. Should I open my own games with an initial time of 2-3 mins to be able to go thru that process more times until it becomes natural and fast? Or should I analyze boards as a practice. Any advice is appreciated! TY
Thx, intresting stuff. How about playing city rush on wheat/ore?
I'm down for this if you are 2nd and definitely 3rd pick but too many variables when you have the first pick and 2 minutes is not enough time to think about it
So I’m not playing against top level players, so I don’t think red would reliably go all in for roads.
More likely is the 9-10-11 to get all 5 ressources, locking out the 9 ore. 3rd and second share the 8-4-3 and 8-4-10 and you still get the 6-11-3 but without that expansion down.
Do you feel more or less confident here?
How do you prioritize securing the rare resources with the other tips you mentioned?
Very informative video. Given me a lot to think about! Question: Which placement position do you think gives the most flexibility or options in general? Is it 2nd or 3rd?
Some stats say that 2nd has the best winning percentage but it’s all within 1-2% point differences. I usually find 3rd has an easier time calculating but I wouldn’t put much worry into it.
At 1:58, isn't the 5-4-10 at the top right also a 10 pip spot? Not sure why it isn't marked
Awesome vid drew, definitely agree that 8/5/10 is always 1. What do you think about in the first setup 4th position taking 3/10/11 right with 6/9/3 left instead of the road master play. Get the road start and I think 9/10/2 is always open. In that version 4th usually ends up with road network and the 6/2 port spot with the best brick on a tradable board. I think it's maybe better than the road master play, what do you think?
Whatup gangsta! Yeah, I think 693 left can be playable with the 10 3 11 right. Though you might lose the 4911 and 1092 in some variations as I see both spots being viable for 1st and 2nd. A lot of players will take a spot when they know it will hurt another player’s expansion plans. Personally the road master play is just good and really fun to play.
Good lesson
New lesson just dropped LFG
Very interesting vid! Would you ever consider pairing the 8-10-5 with the adjacent 10-9-2? And then point down to the 6 brick and 3:1 port? It's lower production but my initial thought with regard to the 8-10-5 paired with 6-3-11 like in your example is that that's a lot of sheep to be having without a 3:1 port nearby (or would you point up to the sheep port?), and lacklustre (starting) ore.
probably because red beats you to the port pretty much every time
Yo! I don't dislike your idea but there might be a chance the 693 player will point left in hopes of the 10 9 2 being open, and that race isn't fun. You could get away with going 10 9 2 to 62... Ultimately, I like the idea. The 8 5 10 has many playable options and showcasing even the 10 9 2 should gives you even more confidence to know you are taking the right pick. Too many players take inflexible setups and don't give some wiggle room just in case things shift and the calculation falls apart.
@@dandydrew Yeah, I think I would only entertain this idea if the 6-9-3 player has already pointed their road right to the coast. If they've pointed left it's too risky. Of course, if they get a few good wood/brick rolls they could still plow you, which would be a problem, but the same is true if you were to pick the 6-3-11 as your second settle with the person below you on 8-4-3 being able to cut you off to the 4-11 if they get a road builder or so. Also I love the point you're making about flexibility in terms of outs!
Most hardest and skilled picks in Catan on 3rd and 4th place
Keep reminding us to like the vid! Almost forgot
i would be kinda intrested in see you pick one board. and play first,second,third and forth posision. just to see the diffrence
That would require some kind of dev mode access to mod boards and players but would be very interesting to see.
That’s a fun idea. We will see!
@@allsss3792 i rock the free to play still. but i assumed there were board IP's/board seeds. like civ 6 or minecraft.
I'm a bit curious why you just think of the 9-5-10 compared to the 5-10-4, which gets no mention at all in the video. In my mind I don't want to race to the 3:1 port with whoever picks 10-4-8, the brick seems more rare than the sheep and the 9-10 expansion with 3:1 port looks juicy, while also leaving the 9-5 as possible triangle expansion too. I know 5-10-4 has one point less in production than 9-5-10, but 5-10-4 looks more tempting to me.
Fair enough. You can take anything you want but calculate it out.
1. 8 5 10
2. 5 10 4
3. 6 5 11
4. 6 9 3
5. now.... does he take 8 4 3 or potentially takes 9 5 for a more complete OWS?! Both have merit.
6. 8 4 3 ore ore sheep
7. 9 4 11 left
8. Two critical decision trees here:
A - If 843 is open 1st takes that to go to the wood port - Problem here is that the 5 4 11 is kind of in OWS mode against 2 other players since the 693 goes 9 5
B - If 693 takes 843 then 8510 gets 6 3 11 again and has a very similar play as before. I still believe this is better for blue
Also an issue which wasn't discussed here is that the 5910 player will be on MOST of the key blocks in this game: 5 wheat, 9 ore, 4 brick, and potentially the 9 sheep if he settles on it while someone like blue is a bit more difficult to block.
The question you have to ask is can you compete with the board with those options. Not saying you can't with the 5 10 4 but I think it feels a little less certain to me.
I mean I personally see a few ups and downs to the spot. The thing that sounds horrible would the small chance of losing the race to the 9 10 if they settle the 5 9. Also, without knowledge of other placements, I think it’s fairly likely that the 5 4 10’s second settle will include more brick which has potential to sit dead in the hand (due to it being next to the ore/sheep).
However, positionally you are cutting red off the 10 4 8, and if you choose to go for the 11 10 9 instead of the 11 4 9, you also cut off the 10 9 2 and 3 11 10, making the board much more locked. It would really screw over red’s game, which is funny, but you also take away the 3 11 10 either from yourself, green, or white.
So the possibility of blue taking the 11 10 9 might radically change how red plays, but I’m not smart enough to figure out what’d happen instead. My guess is that red takes 11 10 9 and 9 3 6, or 4 8 3 and 11 4 9 for the wheat expansion, then green takes the 9 3 6 or 11 4 3, then blue has the 11 4 9 or 4 3 8, then white takes the other one or the 11 3 6 if they have to. So it seems overall quite advantageous to the opponents, but you get a lot of really good one road settles and potentially the brick port.
Edit: Fixed the numbers I put in the 3rd paragraph, sorry to anyone having a stroke deciphering what I said
@@dandydrew Interesting thoughts, thanks for sharing. When I calculate I get way different results and constantly have to recalculate. And since I never play with pros my prediction is rarely accurate anyway. As red I would never find the setup you suggested and play without sheep and wheat. And I kind of assume 11-10-9 is better than 9-5, so I would count on 9-5 being open. I also think it is hard for anyone to pick 5-9 and race me while pointing to the 3:1 since if they do that I might get a starting road on the way back. Anyway, if I try to count I get something like this (if I try thinking on my own without relying on your things:
1. 8-10-5
2. 5-10-4
3. 6-5-11
4. 10-11-5 (since I think wheat is important)
5. 9-3-6 (expecting to be able to trade the excess brick)
6. 4-3-8 with 2 ore (kinda hate the setup since there are no good ports in sight, but let's stick to this)
7. 8-4-3 with starting road
8. 11-6-3
Kind of a monster setup for blue. If instead 6th pick takes 8-4-3 with starting road and an expansion to a 3:1 port which is hard to live without, then 7th pick gets 4-3-8 with 2 ore and that kind of works better with the 4 brick instead of 9 sheep since the 8 sheep are more sheep than we need
Either way, I think the calculation becomes quite bit different for me when I don't see the setup for 4th position that you suggested and go to 10-11-9 which really removes a lot of space in the middle and I never expect anyone to take 5-9. I'm also probably wrong since I am a weaker player :)
Resource quality is also a factor. Ore, wheat and brick is generally more valuable than wood and sheep.
What about 5-4-10 pointing upwards?
Yep, that was also the one that stuck out to me the most, im just wondering at which rate is the port ever stolen if you do. It is never the less a very reliable road play to pick 🙂
I like that with the road pointing up to give you the 9/5 XP and/or the 3:1 port. Great find if you ask me 🤙
Very risky. There are two strong spots where someone can start with wood brick and the 3:1(that you want), and then cut you off by going to the 5 wheat, simultaneously solving their lack of wheat.
You'd be relying on facing lower skilled players
@@tuborg38Hi. I don't have much experience with the board game yet. I was taught on a board; played ~15 games. I just bought the online game. Wow, how I wish I had learned that way first. I hate to say it, but my friends did NOT make learning anywhere close to easy. I did win 2 games. My friends also had 'house rules.' I don't think they were the problem. They had me play by myself, while they guided and explained. NOT a good strategy! 😂
Anyhoo, I have never heard of a port being stolen; it's not in the online version either. Could you please give me a synopsis?
Thanks.
@@JillMcCall-yn3qn a port would be "stolen" if a player settles a port, the port would be taken, the port only reaches across 2 points (one tile) and every settlement is required to be settled 2 points (roads)apart
If you mark 8-4-3 because it's 10 pips, why not also mark 9-6-2 and 8-3-10 (also 10 pips)?
Hurray!
Agree except 1st player last settlement on 10 9 2 is op. A 3 for stone is weak. No point in having 6 8 on sheep unless you can get to the 2 for 1 port, but thats a ways.
Smarter to play for almost instant city on 10 / 9 / 2 and then spam sertlement cards..
While this is a very strong video, with good tips, especially for beginners on how to look at a board (I learned the missing pieces in the classes with anora) I think placing the board out of the whole table usually is a mistake. Maybe its me, but when I was 1st I am almost never able to predict what the other players are picking. I think I can predict a settlement choice in ~70-80% of the times, but if I predict one of them wrong, the whole story can change.
So I look at pairings, and singular strong spots, and deduce 4-5 spots who will be gone 99% and then look at whats left after that, that works for me far better with the time management, I try to use at least half of my 3 minutes only focussing on what I am getting and how that setup is going to work, win condition wise, bcs calculating a ton on what ecactly the rest will pick wasnt working too well for me.
Also Id pick differently then you predicted in some situations, while I agree with your conclusion, I probably wouldnt pick 5-6-11 in 3rd, or probably wouldnt go 9-5-10 in 2nd if 8-5-10 first happens. Maybe its the best pick, idk about that, but if you have me in 2nd or 3rd, the whole story mightve changed, potentially screwing up important parts of the analysis. In this case, the analysis still should work, but there are different boards wherre crazy stuff can happen, even with an experienced table
Yo Paul. Yeah, it’s hard to get this right but doesn’t mean you shouldn’t try. Also, this is why I put flexibility as a top principle because then I can trust it to help me if the board shifts and I have to adapt.
Why wouldnt 6/8/6 or 6/8/8 be the most pips?
It is really interesting.
What I did not get is the difference between 8/5/10 or 9/5/10. If you pick 8/10/5 you are being floated with sheep without 3:1 por or sheep port to change it. On the other hand, with 5/9/10 ports are much better. Picking 5/10/8 and placing road towards 11/4, 2nd place will also take the strong spots 3/11/10 or 9/10/2.
I do not see the difference there
Yeah I don’t see the difference either
Same
at 1min52: the 5 10 4 is also a 10 pip production spot.
5 10 4 is not listed as an option in the list of 10 pip production possibilities. Is there a reason for this?
Also the other 8 3 4 should have a black dot
I think there are just some errors…. Which is kinda rough when this is supposed to be a bit of a lesson in placements 😂
Hey! Yes, the 5 10 4 is an option. I just replied to Martin's post which my thoughts and calculations on this. Hopefully that helps. Everything can be playable in the right hands but more important is to get use to calculating out the position the best you can and see if that is "winning" or at least has something to play for.
@@ruffiansgaming17 The reason the other 843 didn't have the dot is because it's very common the 8 4 10 goes over the 8 4 3 in most cases. This is a very common positional theme in placements and I did my best to keep this video short and to the point without explaining EVERY single nuance, which there are many. Of course, you guys understood the 843 was an option and seems like you got the point overall.
@@dandydrew ahh I gotcha. Ya I understood where you were coming from. I think it could just be confusing to newer players when you say “these are all of the high production spots” without explaining why you left some out of your calculation. Thanks for the reply though, clears it up a bit
When making deals with another player about where to go do people ever break those deals?
Also have the same question!
So you missed a couple spot, notable the 8-3-10. I get why: the 8-5-10 is more production and blocks it. But I think it’s worth considering it giving the road to 8-4
There's an argument to be made the wood port could be taken as there is so much wood on the board, so in principle your idea is good but the risk is also high
I’m a firm believer that rules are made to be broken but at the same time, you need some basic structure to get you in the right ballpark. A lot of options like side options like 8310 and 5411 are playable but it doesn’t change the fact that calculation is still key to placement strategy.
@@dandydrew oh yea, I agree… but my noob ass legitimately considers the 8-3-10 as first pick for the OWS
@@themexinadian3409 100% agree. The caveat is that the 8-4 ressources and port mix doesn’t necessarily match well with any other spots. There’s the 8-4-10 but then your number diversity suffers greatly and there will be better spots available for 4th position.
But yea, I wouldn’t do it either for the reason you mentioned. Also, theres just better spots :)
Now just need to be able to do this in 2 mins 😂
I would say I could calculate a line in about 20 seconds with a high certainty but that’s because I’ve know the patterns very well. Takes practice!
Oh my goad.
8-9-3 ows???
Why is 8,5, 10 paired with 9, 4, 11 stronger than 9,5, 10 paired with 9, 4, 11?
If you're going to play OWS, isn't it better to have the 5 wheat versus the 10 wheat? You downgrade the 5 wood to a 10 wood but isn't it better to have more wheat than more wood since OWS is your strategy?
Love your channel!
Love this question Pete and glad you are asking.
The #1 reason here is early to middle game block spots. The 5910 player will have the robber on practically their entire early game:
- 5 wheat will be a key target for red and blue
- 9 ore is the best target for green to stop devs
- 4 brick could also be an easy target for green and blue if moving it from ore
The 2nd key reason is more about road flexibility. If 5910 goes 4911 then the 8510 takes the 6311 and has the ability to point down and I believe will win the 3 10 11 in most cases. Making the case that the center of the board isn’t that great for the 5910 player. If you give the 8510 player the 4911, he is more likely move faster and utilize the space and have a great space advantage.
Don’t get me wrong, you can certainly win the game with 4911 + 5910 but you better hope that the 8 4 10 player doesn’t beat you to the 3:1 port or else your ability to scale up might be a lot more difficult. Ultimately, I just don’t believe the 5910 is as competitive on this board from my experience.
@@dandydrew Great answer...I kind of thought the 5 wheat might be blocked more and better wood means it's easier to build roads, but I wanted to hear it from the master...lol
8310 - 10 pips
Whats a pip
The dots
I don't think I see how 5/9/10 is worse than 5/8/10 when paired with 4/9/11. Positionally, I think the ports are much better for the 5/9/10 and after the settle your wheat can't get completely shut down with 1 block. Production wise, they're extremely similar but the extra wood and sheep exceed the desired ratios whereas the wheat falls short for the 5/8/10. This player will rely heavily on wheat, and as a personal rule, I also try not to rely on building on top of 3 pips of a resource as an essential part of my gameplan; 1 more doesn't seem like a lot but in reality it's a 33% increase which is pretty massive for reliability.
Am I missing something? I'm not the most experienced player and I'm trying to learn what I can.
Hi Evan,
5910 is a great spot but there are some challenges to consider:
1. If you take 5910 (and point right), how certain about you that you will be the 8 4 10 player to the 3:1. I would argue you lose that race almost every time unless you have dev and/or trade assistance. This means the safest option is point left to the desert 3:1 but feels a bit lackluster as a 1st or 2nd pick to build to the desert.
2. 5910 + 4911 is playable and does have all 5 resources. The major issue is that you will be on MOST of the key blocking spots such as the 5 wheat, 9 ore, and 4 brick - The 9 ore is especially true since green will be deving at a much faster pace than you and keeping the ore blocked to stop devs and cities. Blue and red will most likely be hitting the 5 wheat whenever possible as well, which slows down every aspect of your game.
It's also not clear to me that 4911 with 5910 might not be getting the center spots if blue decides to race 6311 down himself. Not to mention 693 could point left to go 10 9 2 also.
Ultimately, I don't hate the 5910's play, I would much rather go a different route as it feels 9510 + 4911 will have a harder time than others on this board since he is unlikely taking road or army against red or green respectively.
I do think the biggest issue for blue here is the overdose on sheep and something he will have to figure out as the game develops.
@@dandydrew Thanks for the detailed response! I had the same question as @evansmith2832. I often forget to take into consideration the key blocking spots when making my placement choices, so your insight on that point is very helpful.
@DandyDrew - Catan thank you so much for the response, I definitely was thinking more about targeted blocks than general good blocks, but outside of that and the port situation I fail to see why the 8/5/10 doesn't suffer as much from all the rest of the same problems, especially the sheep overload. I guess what I'm really missing is why the 8/5/10+4/9/11 is such a scary setup considering all those problems and not being a favorite for either road or army.
So the best pick was the one with the most pips, cool…
That was not the point! It’s about understand your potential options on the way back based on your first pick.
Comment.
This video is flawed, because orange still needs to place his settlements...
We are putting orange in the water
First is pretty bad on this board. I dont like your setup because white has way too much sheep without a 3:1, sheep isnt tradable, too little brick, brick and ore ports are useless, and wood port is kinda weak. Theyd need to get up to sheep port which is incredibly slow.
I prefer the 693 but instead of 31011, second spot is 6113. 4 numbers which isnt great, and it's a bit of a slow game, but it picks up nicely once on the brick port. Plus brick is much more tradable in the early game. Depending on where red points, 31011 might be a quick expansion before going for brick port. That could maybe be worked out.
I agree the overdose of sheep is the main issue here but I think blue getting the 6311 too 31011 is really nice as you have a few different win-con options. I can deal with that personally.
wtf is a pip
The dots below every number. The spots with more pips are better
Wtf does pips mean L vid
voice is too monotone
Thanks
I found 8 3 10=10 pips. It's a road away from a settlement, with a lumber port. It also follows the OWS strategy. 😃
I just unpaused the video and wanted to 'add' that the lumber port is a 2:1.
What do you think?