Come talk about it with me live: twitch.tv/mactics Also I already know a lot of people are going to skip the video to comment some version of “oh wah wah just grind.” Most folks are happy to grind, they just want different options of things to play to do that grind. That simple, mic drop 👍🏼
I use a macro, and everyday, I wake up with 99 gunsmith engrams, 200k glimmer, 7-9 exotic class items from doing nothing. Any other game I’d get banned for this, feels dirty. That being said, I’ve 55+/64 on both hunter and warlock, no way I’m farming this manually unless they introduce some sort of bad luck protection. It’s a pity cause the mission is great, but getting dupes really isn’t fun.
@slothmanjay5029 i hate to break it to you but technically that could be considered a cheat. It is in other games and considering Bungie have banned people for haveing cheats on your hardware i wouldn't trust it
THE solution would be to have a menu ON the Class Item itself where we could choose the perk we want from column 1 and column 2 (Provided you have found a class item with that perk before). This way we don't have to keep 192 Class items in the vault. We don't have to masterwork every single roll we want to use and we don't have to Artifice them either. This would have been the perfect solution. Just add a panel on the Exotic class item that lets us pick and chose the perks we have unlocked and want to be active on said class item. This also lets us track what combos we have available and let's us track the ones we have yet to unlock. Then add some dupe protection like a knock out system and voila !
Good point. Even of Bungie wanted to be tight they could male it every other pathfinder completion and it would still be far better than the current method.
@@RANDOMLYPWND somehow i haven't gotten a dupe yet...only have 25 so far though...and luckily have pretty much all the god rolls somehow...only one's i still want are renewal/liars and renewal/cyrtarachne
Then there's no need to have any RNG at all. Run it 64 times, then done forever. So at that, just make all perks selectable. This is a problem that doesn't need a solution. The problem is the the player.
Absolutely. It’s already a 1/64 chance. As an extreme example, if an RNG cursed player got his desired roll on drop #64, approx ~20min per drop, that’s about 21 hrs of pure farming WITHOUT dupes. With dupes you’re looking at possibly double, triple that time or even more. Horribly implemented system. No wonder people are resorting to macros.
There are more problems that I see… with 192 possible class item rolls in total, storing all of them would take up almost 1/3 of your vault space, which is ridiculous. It also isn’t very easy to expand on if Bungie were to ever add more traits. Just one more trait in each column would mean 17 more total possible rolls per class item. To solve both these problems, I see a simple solution. Instead of dropping a class item with two random rolls, have the class items be able to swap in and out different traits (similar to mods or multiple perks on weapons). The first class item you unlock (from the mission) would give you access to a random trait from the first and a random trait from the second. Each additional “drop” of the class item gives you access to one trait you don’t already have for that class item (works on a knock out system. The same trait on different class items needs to be acquired separately for each class, for example earning spirit of the syntho for Warlock, doesn’t unlock it for Titan or Hunter). This means that for the current traits in the game, you would only need to earn 15 drops of the class item to fully unlock each perk combination, while also only needing you to have one physical item on your character/in your vault, as you can freely swap out traits once unlocked, giving you lots of freedom to try out different combinations and work out what works and what doesn’t. This also means if Bungie wanted to add more traits, you only have to earn the trait itself to unlock all the combinations with it. One more in each column would mean 2 more drops, not 17 (minimum in the current system).
The main problem with this idea is honestly the implementation of it. Bungie would need to find a way to allow for essentially 8 perks in a column, and would also need to find a way to put some punishment on for swapping these perks out. Which based on how long it has taken them to solve the envious to cascade swap on Edge Transit, is much easier said then done. But the idea is really nice, if it's possible would be a very ideal way of doing it, but I am worried it'll be a bit too small of a grind.
@@cerulean5032 I think the answer is literally in your own comment, once they fix the envious/cascade on Edge Transit they will have the knowledge of how to implement the perk swap punishment for most if not all of the perks already. Then coming to having so many perks in one column they could uniquely change perk columns into perk rows and then do 2 rows of 8 exotic perk options which may be a little confusing but I think since the exotic class item is so unique it would be recognizable
@@ne12follow there are some ideas floating out there I’ve read that are very similar to yours. Honestly I don’t think any of it will come to fruition. If anything, they either implement something similar to what matics was presenting, but on a much smaller, limited scale.
I agree that these should drop from anywhere. We could talk to death about other solutions but this is the best one. Pale Heart can get stale, the exotic mission as well. Just make it a normal exotic drop and let us find it, not farm it. The second thing is just the vault space issue. I think these should be craftable with the ability to extract a perk, even if not permanent. I don’t need 64 copies of a class item in my vault.
Honestly I think the solution is the item should be changed to be everyone just has one exotic class item, and the exotic perks are "mods" you slot in. Then we just have to unlock 16 exotic perks for the one item
I like this one! It would take away the grind/farm that some players like/hate, but it would make holding onto one class item feel worth it without people getting a conniption over holding onto 64 for each class.
@@andrewmcqueen4897 Yeah, but then you permanently have that perk unlocked, and it would be removed from the loot pool. Also, you can slot into whatever combo you need and it makes it so you don't have to grin for the right combination, just individual perks. It's way more rare to get an exact combination of two perks than to just unlock 16 things individually.
@@KS-mn7qk What if the perk was "consumed" upon use? We used to have consumable mods (and still do in the confetti mod from Dares); if you were to swap the perk, you would need to reacquire it.
@@Alaric323 I mean I feel like that would still decrease the grind by a decent amount still. Because you're rolling for two individual 1/8 chances (assuming each column keeps it's own unique perk pool). That's way better odds than what it is right now. And ideally you'd just get another class item and put a new combo of the mods on if you want to change it, rather than changing a good roll you already have.
Turn it into a crafting system. Run the mission to unlock the "schematic" or w/e. Dismantle an exotic, get a "Spirit Shard of 'X Exotic'". Get some arbitrary number of shards (3? 5? 10?) to make the full spirit. Get 2 spirits to craft the item. Create an inventory slot similar to the Engram Tracker and have it track all of your shards. Easy day. Although I do like the guaranteed drops from GM Exision idea
I'm on board with this, minus the economization. I've been saying for a while now that everything should be craftable and that perks should unlock from dismantling.
Simplify if even more. Just allow players to use exotic engrams to craft them. Maybe make it cost two engrams. Honestly I have no use for trying to get any of the regular exotics for the most part so basically every exotic engram I open I dismantle the item. It would also be nice if you could use them on the regular classes and not just prismatic.
I’d happily spend an exotic cipher, shard, alloy (whatever) to pair 2 class items together - 1 column left slot and 1 column right slot. I’d be basically trading that time I used to earn those mats with runs of dual destiny. I’m at least 40 runs deep and haven’t gotten the top 3 I’ve wanted. In fact, I’ve gotten only 1 hoil roll.
This is actually an amazing idea and probably very well balanced with the ascendant/cipher cost. If you're grinding for that ONE combo, it encourages play (which should be bungie's goal) as you can see progress towards the final combo rather than just rolling your eyes and switching off in disappointment. Probably could also be implemented lore-wise quite easily in a future update as "our understanding of it become more complete" or something.
I’m calling BS on your claim. If there’s a 1/8th chance to roll any specific perk from a column, the cumulative probability of rolling that perk *at least* twice during 40 attempts is 96.8%. It’s not impossible that you’re telling the truth, but it’s extremely likely that you’re either exaggerating or just plain lying.
@@paulwilson2204I’m still waiting in the tower - how about after maintenance ends? Btw I got 3 more rolls since my comment - all duplicates / no hoil perk. I literally counted them in my vault = 43, on my guardian masterworked = 5. Don’t recall how many I’ve deleted (a lot though at least 10 conservatively)
@@GUyGuyManManPerson 3 for just a reroll sounds brutal for how sparce they are rn. Maybe sacrifice 2 class items and choose 1 exotic perk from each + exotic engrams?
My main problem is that I play other games too. I'm also an adult so my play time is limited these days and I'm not particularly willing to dedicate a massive amount of it to D2 to farm these things. For example I logged on yesterday to run the GM a few times and then I was done, after that I wanted to go play a different game. I probably won't be on again until the weekend and I want to do crucible not farm some mission or run around endlessly in the pale heart. I would say overall my biggest gripe with D2 these days is that they really like to try and tell us what to do. The pathfinder is telling me what to do. Getting the newest exotics only has two options and neither of them are something I want to do. The artifact is telling me what types of guns to run. The list could go on. My point is that players who have paid to unlock everything should be able to do whatever they want and have a chance to get relevant rewards. I
The answer is simple and easy to fix. Similar to the way The Elder Scrolls Online had the same issue. They introduced a 'sticker book' that only dropped rolls you don't have. Then once the 'books' completed you would get random rolls. This would save even if you deleted the roll but can't require from the said book
So the one change that I think would be nice but I could see it make the Dual Destiny mission useless in the long term is: Make the Class Item a craftable item with a unlock feature similar to Whisper or Outbreak where as you have the perks unlocked, via the Dual Destiny mission or from completing the first few Pathfinders a week, we can slot in the Spirit we want at a cost of materials. This way we could cut down on #1 needing so many vault spots for each class and #2 getting duplicate rolls.
Zero hour, vox obscura, and the whisper quest are all already pointless after the few runs it takes the unlock everything; so I don’t think that should be a big concern
Agreed! I would also add ergo sum sword to this. One of the reasons crafting was introduced is to safe vault space. All the tools are there. Not sure y they are not using it
@@derek3231Yes but if the perks were still RNG it would still take a while while reassuring you that worst case scenario you run the mission 34 times. That's still a week's worth of grinding.
How about this. Make the class items craftable and you unlock the perks by acquiring a class item with those perks once. Sure would help the vault too.
Making them craftable doesn't solve anything. Firstly, You'd still need to grind for the petks you want. 2) You'd still need crazy amounts of space in your vault for every combo. Nobody wants to use materials every time you want to use a different perk combo (because that's how crafting works, you can't switch out perks without spending materials) there is no way that Bungie would put all column one perks and all column two perks on one class item.
Done farming them. Over 100 on my hunter and still haven’t seen all the perks synthoceps being the main one I want and haven’t got a single one with that perk ON ANY CLASS
It took me about 100 without Inmost Light on my Hunter, then two in a row was with that + Synto. Just two dupes of that back-to-back. Its so crazy with the dupes. And that so many perks are TRASH.
go buy a lottery ticket ticket dude. If youre telling the truth, that’s insane. About a 1 in a million shot of farming 100 and not getting a single synthoceps roll
Let's also acknowledge that exotic class items were overhyped, I got caliban liars and its either slightly better than liars handshake sometimes, but usually a lot worse. The healing from liars is there for a reason and it just feels better to use
Agreed. These exotic class items are mostly underwhelming, or, at best, roughly on par with a regular exotic armor from the head/hands/chest/legs slots.
As a hunter main. I'm only interested in verity's with in most light because those are exotics I can't get for the hunter. Everything else is whatever since I can already do that with the og exotics
One thing that gripes me is the storage space. Why only 700? If i want all of the exotic class items i have to spend just shy of half my space to keep them.
I desperately hope that Bungie allows us to transmog the cloak because the only armor that looks good with it is the prismatic armor from the battle pass
I've gotten some stuff to look at least cohesive together with it from some mix n match solstice gear, the celestial chest, and (since I'm using arc melee primarily I liked it for flavor) the arc themed arms. Though the shaders feel basic in black and white.
there is a lot more fashion than just this seasons battlepass thats goes with it, theres the ghost of the deep armour set, the season of the deep season pass set, the arms from last seasons set matches the crown a lot and some pieces from the hunter spider set (from halloween it think, i forgot what it was called). If u have the ornament then the techeuns regalia mask, some of the dawning pieces and some of the trials pieces go with thats as well. You just have to get creative. I do agree that it either needs more ornaments that are attainable in game or just straight up allowing us to transmog it like non exotic pieces
Nah y'all just haven't figured out how to make it look good it's a combo of finding the right shaders and armor I will say it's tricky tho I originally made mine to look like the armor from the brave arsenal but with different armor pieces that weren't the brave arsenal armors
Calling it now… I say by sometime near the 3rd episode they have it In Rahool and you can focus it like other exotics. You’ll still have the rng but you’ll have to have the exotic engrams for it
I've been farming non-stop since the Dual Destiny double exotic was revoked, farming chests at the 'Pale Heart.' After saving up to 78 unique exotics between my vault and shared inventory, I already have pretty much the most wanted ones. Of course, there are still some left to get. After a lot of runs, I decided to make my own little spreadsheets for a few runs I did, and also farm Ergo Sums along the way. I ended up with 12-minute runs, getting one exotic by looting chests at the Pale Heart with an average of about 30 chests per exotic. Of course, that was during my lucky runs; there were cases where I went even to 72-82 chests, taking around 35 minutes for those runs. Why did I do this? Because at the end of the day, just farming Dual Destiny, being the fastest way, only awards one single exotic, while running the Pale Heart rewards me with Banshee engrams, reputation = lumen, drops, as well as some random drops from the world loot pool like 'Crux Termination,' where I got my desired god roll and all the Ergo Sums I wanted so far. So yes, Dual Destiny is the fastest, but not the optimal. When you consider all the time you will have to keep running Overthrow for a while after you get those rolls, I feel like farming in the Pale Heart with or without a macro is the fastest way overall to get various things at the same time. Is it fun? Of course not. I'm so bored of it that I want some changes like the ones proposed by Mactics in his video. I even thought of a crafted exotic class item: when you get one exotic class item with your desired perk in column one, some kind of extract pattern like a red border could consume the exotic. Then, another one with your desired perk in column two could be consumed to craft a new one with consumable perks at the Enclave or something like that."
I also think it would be a good idea to be able to focus one column of perks, that way you can always know that you'll get at least one perk that is wanted
Thank you for crunching the numbers for us to accurately quantify how bad the situation has been. I sincerely hope bungie hears this and makes changes.
Having grinded both the mission and pale heart, and having a 60% duplicate drop rate, I am done grinding it (and still dont have the drops that I want). I understand your solution, but I still think that its not the best approach. Because it doesnt help with the biggest issue with how exotic class items, vault space needed to hold these rolls. I think that the better approach would be to have one class item, with ability to unlock the exotic perks for it through dual destiny (or other activities) by earning exotic materials that you can craft into the class item. I already have 6-7 class items on my character, in addition to 2-3 standard class items to swap in for different activities (with raid mod slots or rep boosts). I used to never have any class items in my vault, but now I have quite a few, and need to save infusion fuel when a powerful drops as a class item to be able to bring my next class item up to 2000. The concept of the exotic class items was good, but the implementation was very short sighted and poor.
I've never even started grinding, not done the mission either. I like my current builds and they work fine, why would i waste lots of time on something that doesn't seem fun for me ? The grind for that perfect God roll is insane : doing the same thing over and over and over...and still getting the same result : crap. Naah, i'll pass on that insanity.
One element you didn't cover is once you have all 192 class items how do you store them? What should be done is that once a perk is unlocked you should be able to slot it at will
Watch a few guides so you have an idea of what to expect. Google vow symbols and the second image that shows up is good, try to learn those but at least have it open to give proper call outs. I have taken probably 20 first time peeps through this, it’s not that hard. I hate when people don’t want to Mic and expect me as PS5 player to type..like No. Also when people are too lazy to pull up the symbols and just go around describing everything…I just leave😏.
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Man, this has been the most frustrating thing in the game. Looking at these numbers, the discouragement is even greater. I honestly think it's unacceptable that an item that's so hard to get, with so many different combination possibilities, doesn't have protection against duplicates. Very frustrating!
I like that you brought a different angle to the discussion. Activity variety is so helpful in avoiding burnout. It makes sense thematically to have them drop from the Pale Heart destination, but it also makes sense to first "discover" (unlock) them in the Pale Heart, then be able to get more elsewhere. I have a different issue with these Class Items: vault space. It's a lot of items to store, and it's a pain to find the one I'm looking for, even with tools like DIM. I would like a solution that addresses storage as well as duplicate drops. Two ideas come to mind for me: - Make them craftable, so I can "pull" any combination I want without needing to keep everything in case a new build becomes relevant. - Change the Exotic effects into mods (like Aeon gauntlets), and make drop sources give mods instead of additional copies. Need to be able to pull from Collections with this change.
Why not just have the option to focus these at rahool for 2 shards and an engram? And for that matter, why can’t exotic engrams at base have a chance to drop a class item same as any other exotic?
As a solo player who doesn’t like to use a mic unless truly necessary, I can’t understand why they would hide the exotic class item behind a coop mission that REQUIRES a mic
@@nickmod2011yup I bet 60% of the community will never even get one. I know I have no chance of it…. It sucks cause I would play and grind if I had a way to actually get it.
I partly agree with you, but I think there might be a solution that is tailored more to the current state of the game: 1. Increase Drop rates for Overthrow Events (not by a large margin) 2. Split the Perk pool between the Overthrow areas (First Column) 3. Split the Perk pool between the Overthrow events (second column) The idea is, to be able to target farm faster, and give meaning to what events you pick when doing overthrow. As Bungie, I would keep the distribution a secret, so the community can optimize and find good ways to get to the drops (Normal chests should be untouched imo) The aim is similar to your idea: Mission>any other way of farming it in terms off class items per hour, just with a higher chance of your desired roll. Completionists would still spend ages farming for all class items, but people with a specific build in mind could target farm solo. Additionally the Exotic Mission should have at least three Class items to pick from AND have reduced Duplicate options (making it the best farm)
I didn’t see the solution for solo players getting these besides comments stating ‘ it is a MMO blah blah blah’. How the fix then is make them available like any other rng type of exotic drop. They were teased in trailers and at that point we should have been informed on how to get them. “ here is the activity for obtaining......”
you literally have to run the mission one time and then you can farm solo, you can find someone to play with in 2 minutes with fireteam finder. stop making excuses cus ur a noob
80% of the Destiny community is toxic, they only tell you “git gud” that’s why I stopped being able to play. This Elitist attitude Bungies let fester is nuts.
something i'm surprised i haven't seen anyone talking about is a fix by way of a double perk drop. in a vacuum, my idea was to buff the acquisition rate from higher difficulty loot sources, like overthrow chests, but give Dual Destiny a guaranteed double perk selection as though it were an adept raid weapon. it would cut the RNG down significantly, but not by so much that it loses it's luster. it may even provide a new chase, in getting four good perks likened unto two godrolls in one drop. not sure if that's even possible under the armor framework Bungie has, but they made the Monte Carlo catalyst work through great effort, and the Aeon armor kinda does a similar thing, so i'd give them the benefit of the doubt
Doing something like the monuments of triumphs in tower. You then bring two exotics plus an exotic class enegram obtained from the duel mission To a location, then you basically merge them with one perk you want and the other perk is random(to keep a little grind).
I feel like the most realistic option is just 1-to-1 bad luck protection and keep drop sourced limited. Since it requires the purchase of TFS there's no way they'll add it to anything that a free player can do.
When did I ever say you didn't need to run Dual Destiny? I said they won't add it as a drop to anything that doesn't require the purchase of TFS. What kinda illiterate nonsense is this lol
They should add a legendary version where you either get double drops or you get to choose one of the perks for one column, the other column would still be rng so it would still need to be farmed. Yeah rng sucks, but i think if you put these two changes in place it would significantly help compared to what we have now.
This seems like a good middle ground. You still have to earn it and it's way harder than running normally, but you cut your odds of getting the roll you want down from 1/64 to 1/8. I.... DO also think there are some exotic armors that are begging for the Class Item treatment, if only because on their own they feel underwhelming and they'd pair EXTREMELY well with some of the other class item rolls. As one example for each class.... Warlocks: I'd kill for a class item that gave Alchemy/Filaments. Extends my rift duration AND gives me devour upon using my empowering rift. The Weapon Surge can be the part that's the nerf from the original since it's only the "Spirit of". Hunters: Bombardiers/Coyote would be ridiculously fun. Super niche, but imagine just dodging twice near a bunch of enemies and suddenly they ignite or freeze. Bombardiers are a fun exotic and it's sad they're outclassed by so much, but this one pairing would be awesome. Maybe reduce the damage or the radius to make it "fair", even though Bombardiers is super niche as is? Titans: They would never do it and I completely understand why, but type-neutral Skullfort with Contact OR Severance. I just wanna live my Captain America dream of endless shield throws, man.
They would have to make a selection permanent though, swapping perks is too broken of a game mechanic, look at the god rolle she transit how problematic that can become
@@Spac3_Duck I think you misunderstood what they're suggesting. They're not suggesting having multiple perks in a column to choose from, they're suggesting being able to choose one of the perks in one of the columns to guarantee you get it from doing a Hard Mode version of Dual Destiny.
I agree with the more sources solution big time, BUT that all still sounds like a slog for somebody who plays literally any other games. I think they should allow crafting. This seems like the perfect opportunity and the exact reason they added crafting to the game in the first place. Maybe after I get 10 class item drops, that unlocks crafting. Then just like usual, I have to level the armor up to unlock different perks. Since it's exotic, you still have to put something in place to slow the grind down, so maybe it's just a one and done frame. You get your 10 drops, you craft your exotic item, then you need another 10 in order to craft another? IDK but you're right something has to change. Trying (mostly your) fun new builds is the only reason I ever play this game anymore. So many new builds out there rely on something that I just don't have time to grind for. Let me unlock a blueprint and work towards the exact build I want.
In my head, key to this is to retain engagement while reducing the load on players to get the perfect roll. Exotic class item drops with random perks, this is your roll, buuuuut you can unlock perks through engagement (or maybe intrinsic quests?) that allows you to slot a new perk using endgame materials, kind of like reshaping weapons. You get intrinsic drops in the same way as catalysts, as random drops from activities, and have to unlock them by doing the intrinsic quests before you can slot them into your exotic class piece. This incentivises re-engagement with content as bungo can force engagement for unlocks, and even choose the activities we have to do to unlock. Doing it like crafting incentivises getting more than one exotic class item, because you'll want to keep the rolls you like available in your vault without having to recraft each time. If you set it up so that random rolled perks don't unlock the corresponding craftable intrinsic, there would still be some benefit to random rolls as you could roll certain intrinsics you don't have craftable yet. So say you're a titan, and want a star-eater/ inmost light roll, you do dual destiny and roll a inmost/ synthoceps. In a crucible game, you get a star-eater intrinsic drop, which unlocks by getting 100 super kills and completing dual destiny (or something, haven't thought too much about it). You do your intrinsic quest, and can now slot spirit of the star-eater, which costs 100k glimmer, 3 ascendant shards, and an exotic cipher. You now have a star-eater/ inmost light roll, but haven't unlocked syntho or inmost for crafting. If you wanted a different roll, you'd have to unlock new intrinsics, or get lucky on your 1/64 roll.
Just make them craftable, Im a regular player and i've managed 3 runs on one characture, i've given up on getting a roll I want, don't have time for it.
@@darbs1832 I can understand weapons being locked behind a few hours of gameplay, but at what point does it become too much? Currently, farming pale heart chests the most efficient way should give you the one you want within about 8 hours if we just use the 1/64 drop chance, this is when we don't factor in duplicates which a lot of people have been getting. Going off topic here, a lot of other weapons especially ritual ones have 12 perk columns. After you get 4 vendor resets (what takes quite a while I mind you) you have around 1/840 chance of getting the exact roll you want (masterwork and all). I'm all for stuff being locked behind harder activities or that you would need to invest some time into it, but playing a single activity like it was your full time job while in some cases also having a full time job should not be a thing. I get what you're saying, but needing to spend 8 hours running around looting chests while praying that you don't get duplicates is just terrible. (the 1/840 calculation might be a bit wrong, but you get the point) TL;DR getting the roll that you want on class item takes about 8 hours without getting duplicates and ritual weapons can take a very long time to get
Every time you get one of the class items, the perks that are rolled on it are “added” to a aeon-type perk deal where we can choose them from a list of previously acquired perks, so it’d continuously grow larger, so we don’t need to have a gorrillian umber of class items, but one, which we can mix and match whenever we feel like it. Think like how the exotic perks for craft able exotics drop when you do like, expert/master Whsiper or whatever. This, plus being able to get the items through pathfinders, and as ritual rewards, is what I think would make it a much, MUCH better way to grind them out.
I personally agree with adding more sources, but not sure about putting them all throughout the game. Here’s my though: Make completion of any activity IN THE PALE HEART have a chance to reward the class item. this would include Micah’s quests, Ghost resets, overthrow completions, etc. Easier activities have very low chance, but more difficult activities (gm excision, liminality, master salvations edge) have a 100% chance.
Another solution could be focusing them at Rahool. As we unlock class items organically, we could unlock perks to focus based on the perks on our organically found class items. And to make it less OP, we could focus only one perk of our choice while the other is still up to RNG. For example, if I complete Dual Destiny and receive a caliban-verity roll, I now unlock the ability to focus a ‘caliban-random’ OR ‘random-verity’ class item at rahool.
I think a unique option to help alleviate the headache when farming a particular role would be: Once per week, via Ghost/Rahul, guardians can turn in an exotic cypher+exotic engram+an exotic armor to get a class item with a guranteed roll determined by whichever exotic armor piece was used for this. I.e. if you turn in cypher+engram+synthoceps = a exotic class item with synthoceps perk +random perk. While not the most ideal considering the materials needed, it would help narrow down the drop chances of the second perk to get the ideal roll you are looking for. Great video and good talking points. I hope Bungie looks more into this and comes up with a better way to farm these items.
I've been thinking about this for a few days and had some interesting ideas. Starting off with some Dual Destiny adjustments: 1st: Add double loot drops at the end of the mission 2nd: Add an expert version that has adds a chance for the exotic class items to drop with double perks on each column 3rd: Add triumphs that increase the chance for double perks to drop (not the number of perks, but the chance that each item will have double perks). Now for excision: 1st: Make it drop an exotic class item at the end with two on Grandmaster difficulty 2nd: Make the ones on Grandmaster have a chance to drop with double perks just like Dual Destiny. 3rd: Again, GM triumphs for a higher chance at double perks Now lastly for the Pale Heart in general: 1st: higher drop chance on Expert/Master Lost Sector chests and from the final Overthrow chest 2nd: a bit higher chance to drop from chests in general 3rd: Way lower chance to get an exotic class item with the same perk combo as one you already have across all sources On that note, can we please get more Ergo Sums from Pale Heart Pathfinders?? I still don't have a single one with wolfpack or perfect fifth
Someone else mentioned it, but i agree with them, have it drop from path finder. Like once per week, you have a guaranteed drop of getting the exotic class item for each character. And then if you want do more pathfinder the drops goes down to 75%, 50%, then 25% and stays at the percent.
in addotion to the increase of the sources, they could add, as for adept raid drops, a chance foe additional perks to choose from. Like for GM excision, it could guarantee ONE (and not 2 of 3) from, but with guaranteed 2 perks, which would give a 1/16 chance to have the roll you want (2/8 for 1st column, and 2/8 for 2nd), with maybe a slight chance for a 3rd perk in one, the other or both columns. The harder the activity, the higher the drop chance of an exotic class item is, and a chance for additional perks to choose from to significantly reduce the ods of not getting anything valuable
To me, in order to get the exotic class item, 1. You need to do the quest 2. After completing the quest it'll be part of the exotic engram drop (though you can not focus it) 3. You can unlock it via pathfinder only from the pale heart 4. You can also have a 50% chance of getting it from the overthrow event (ergo sum will still be a guarantee drop)
The change that I've had rolling around in my mind is to have a perk focus system. The idea itself has a vendor (likely Ghost in the Pale Heart) with the ability to guarantee a single perk on any exotic class item you get from the Dual Destiny mission. This would take every drop from a 1/64 to a 1/8 with your focused perk guaranteed. This way you would be practically guaranteed the role you want within 16 runs of Dual Destiny taking the total number of runs down to about 128 in order to get every role. But the main draw of this change is that it allows people to more easily get the role/s that they are looking for.
One solution would be to add a ghost mod that you can equip that guarantees a particular perk when getting an exotic class item. I imagine it might be hard to programmically do that since not all perks are the same for each class. The overall game system would have to load in the mod options on your ghost(s) when choosing your class, and also take that into account when opening a chest with an exotic class item as a reward. But I think this would make it less problematic if Bungie could pull this off.
At the end chest, have an option like in raids to change something. Possibly reroll the one you just received or use a held exotic engram to pick/lock one trait and reroll the second. I definitely agree to eliminate the hard duplicate chances, however just selling them at a vendor is not a good option either.
Allowing them as focused engrams from Rahool would be amazing. Also (bear with me) you could make them craftable? Get 5 (or more) red border versions, then take it to the Enclave. Acquiring levels in the item would just require wearing it (or boosting with Cores) and higher levels unlocks more perks in each column. Make it 1 new perk per 3-5 levels, but keep each level up requiring the same exp.
I think something that could help tremendously is to fix the core issue of the class item, that being that people only want very few of the 64 combinations. More synergy between the two perks that lead to a new gameplay loop would revive the class item entirely
When the exotic class items came out I completed Dual Destiny with a friend and then just went to farm the pale heart chests . I got liars calibans on my SECOND CHEST. I want to get Apotheosis Star Eaters for my Warlock and I don’t even have the heart to start hunting for it because I just know I used up a lifetime’s worth of luck on my Hunter.
It would also be nice to be able to, by co suming 2 class items (and a lot of mateirials, like 2 or 3 exotic cyphers) and deleting them you could pick one perk of each class item deleted, fusing the two of them in one class item that's of you interest. This would make exotic class items that aren't the roll you're looking forward still be useful.
I watched your video and remembered with delight "Chalice of Opulence" from "The Menagerie". It contained blue, red, green and purple runes, through which you could get the desired loot. Imagine how this can be implemented with "Exotic Class Items". For example: guardians are in search of runes throughout the world of Destiny, these runes can be crafted into a “charged particle”, which will be responsible for the desired perk in the “Exotic Class Item” (by combining runes with each other or for example with armor, as if you were taking green and red runes and combine with "synthoceps" and would receive the "spirit of synthoceps"). Then, after crafting two “charged particles,” the guards go through the “two destinies” mission, where at the end they combine these two “charged particles” and receive an “Exotic Class Item” with the necessary perks. Previously, the bungee had a fantasy, but now this fantasy hit the 20-minute passage of "Two Fates" and 40 minutes of running through chests.
In my personal opinion I think double perks in each column is a good solution. It reduces drop rate for desired roll to 1/16 (if I’m mathing correctly)
Best idea I’ve heard was to make it function like Aeons where once you’ve unlocked a perk, it’s now selectable trait that can be swapped out like mods.
They need to make it a single exotic item (per class) with unlock-able perks. If you get a roll with that perk to drop it unlocks the perk in that column. That would also make it so when you get a horse drawing to drop it wouldn’t be a complete L, which would make the drops you do get twice as likely to be exciting to get. Put it on a 12 hour cooldown or make it where only your ghost in the pale heart can “reshape” it. It would save so much vault space and still allow you to have “every roll”.
I always liked the idea of pulling perks out of a drop. For example if you got dragons shadow and worm husk. There was away of pulling the dragons shadow perk and infusing it into another class item. There would be a cost to do it but that way the rng wouldn’t be such a problem.
My idea would be to enable random drops from all sources (including the dual destiny mission, so a chance at a double drop after the first run), but to enable them, you have to run dual destiny once per week. So at reset on Tuesdays, you'll have to get one run in before random drops are enabled. That way, you don't kill the exotic mission, and people can still grind it if they want to.
Great idea! I do think the idea of potentially getting 3 exotic class item drops from GM excision is a bit of a stretch but all other suggestions seem more than reasonable to me. I myself try to acquire all the loot/triumphs in the game and you hit the nail on the head when you expressed how discouraging it is for players like myself when we start to calculate how long it is going to take to collect all of these exotic class items.
An idea i had, is whenever you complete dual destiny, you are given a class item that is disabled by default and has multiple perks per column, you can "lock in" whatever perks you want, after doing that you cannot change your roll.
A nice idea would be to make it so you unlock the aspects with luck so you can just have one exotic class item be able to change the aspect on each side. This would also solve my problem with the exo class item clustering my inventory. So you need only one class item and the loadout save what aspects you use in said class item. This would also make it easier for more aspects to be added to the exo class item if that ever happens.
Regardless of the RNG fix there is always going to be a second big issue and that is there is 64 combos for each class requiring you to store up o 64-192 class items as you are chasing your rolls. Even 64 is to many to keep in your vault. Simple solution that works with lore and keeps people running dual destiny: Have an artifact at the end of dual destiny that uses the powers of darkness to remember (Like deep sight from the Relic on mars) and Light that will materialize this memory…. That Artifact at the end of dual destiny requires that you have completed dual destiny but then lets you re-Craft an Exotic Class item with perks you have already unlocked. This requires you to run dual destiny or obtain the class item through the other means quite a few times still (but a lot less than a few hundred) but then it let’s you be safe keeping a few roles you like or are testing with a build and then recraft one with perks you already unlocked after another run of Dual Destiny. This would also help our vaults from bulging.
I am more inclined to some of the comments suggesting crafting wherein you can breakdown a drop and unlock the spirits (or maybe a choice?) and use them to craft a roll. OR something akin to Aeons wherein you do the same thing, but you can swap perks to your heart's content without having to craft different rolls (this would solve the inventory/vault issue). Another option is following what ritual playlists do and have the number of ghost resets give you increased perks per column. Additionally, the assumption here is that Bungie does not add any more perks to the pool. Considering Bungie wants to keep expanding prismatic out, I wouldnt be surprised if new spirits find their way into the drop table for this armor in some sort of refresh. Even a single new perk in each column takes the chances of your ideal combination from 1/64 to 1/81.
I think adding a focusing option would be good as there is one for almost everything else like if you dismantle one class item you get one currency different for each class and you could spend 2-3 to focus a random roll with knockout protection or you could spend like 10 to Gurantee one perk and the other column be random
I think they should add a collections tab that allows us to just pull the rolls we aren't using whenever. That's alot of vault space being used up over 3 characters. Considering we very rarely get more vault space I think this should be implemented. Another way is to maybe make it after you've collected all the possible combinations you can then just keep one class item and swap the perks from there. I personally like the collections idea better.
I was/am hoping that at some point they “combine” the exotic class items into one item with selectable perks. You’d still have to grind out the combination you want, but it reduces the amount of items you have sitting in your vault. I was also hoping that there would end up being a series of secret items in the exotic mission that would allow you to “pick” a perk on the class item you get. A fun way to do it would be to offer a left side perk and a right side perk and you would be guaranteed one of those two perks. It still retains the random drops, but gives you the chance to focus in if you’re going for a specific roll. That said, I need them to come out with better ornaments before I really start caring about it. The hunter cape is way to much for me and I hate using it. Hoping they dump some ornaments on us before I’m able to get the Inmost/Gyrfalcon and Renewal/Cyrtarachne rolls I’m still trying to farm out. Still can’t believe my luck getting the Galanor/StarEater roll!
I agree with a lot of this video. I think that we should greatly restrict the chances of getting dupes down to a 1 in 10 chance, give a 15 or 25 percent chance of getting a roll anywhere else you get exotics to spawn, and maybe after 10 runs per week we can get a 'border' that will let us select a guaranteed rool on one of the perks while the other is random. It would be cool and then they could add that every 20 runs you could do that. So basically in a week if you did 40 runs you would get 3 'borders' to select half of an exotic class item.
One thing I'd like is a way to guarantee one of the perks is what you want, I had the idea of wearing a specific exotic to guarantee, or at least increase the chance, of a class item getting the corresponding perk
Here’s what I thought they should have done First 2 pathfinders every week should reward 2 exotic CI drops Class Items should also have 3-4 rolls on them because 64 different rolls is god damn ridiculous I have a life I can’t game like that anymore
One more solution could be that if you acquire 2 exotic class items but the first perk you want is on the first one and the second one you want is on the second slot of the other there’s should be a system Where you can combine the 1st and 2nd perk from each of the class items…
Could use a "crafting" system where getting the same perk multiple times allows it to become unlocked in any pact you want to reforge (maybe right where we drop ghosts in the lost city)
AbsoLOOTly! There are many clan members who got burnt out farming their exotic class items. Great suggestions and excellent content as usual @Mactics, thanks.
If anything there should be an option to focus the exotic class item that way you get a certain slot with the perk you want guaranteed. Kind of like Rahool focusing exotics. Either spending a couple of ascendant shards or exotic cypher for a guaranteed perk you want in either the first or second slot. Or bungie allowing double drops on certain weeks for the exotic class mission.
Appreciate all the thought you put into this. As is, these things simply aren't attainable for my group of friends and I. We all work and have families. Sure one here and there, but certainly can't collect em all.
If Rahool had a "Trait Tracker" where you could lock in trait combos for previously acquired cloaks (say you got a Liars and something on one, and a Calibans and something on another) you could then pay a Cipher and an Exotic Engram to lock in those two traits as your preferred drop and get a 75% chance over other rolls for it to drop either of those perks (or both but that feels too OP) but with the dupe assists it would help get all the rolls for one perk even and make it even faster
In this solution Rahool should be standing at the end of the Dual Destiny mission like Arcite in Pantheon in each run. On your first run you would sacrifice what is needed for a possible roll, then when you run again that roll would be earnable through the mission chest. Then talk to Rahool and the gameplay loop commences.
To help limit the number of items sitting in the vault, I would like to see an exotic class item that you can edit. You still have to get lucky and have the specific "spirit of" aspect drop that you want to be able to slot into the exotic, but you only have to collect 48 aspects across all three characters rather than trying to get 192 individual class items. That's over a quarter of your vault space.
They should make it simple. Make it like Aeons. Once you unlock the “mod” you can just swap the slot out. This means you only need to actually have 1 item on you at all times, giving you so much more freedom of choice for class builds, vault and inv space. Anywhere with locked load outs / not swap would still be in affect so it’s not going to “break the game” anywhere.
Beautiful Mac! Literally agree with everything you said on the video. I don’t mind the grind at all, that’s what brings me to Destiny in the first place. But more ways to grind them out makes me feel warm inside.
You pretty much hit the full nail on the head here. While the idea of being able to 'unlock' perks and craft one's own class item I feel is more appealing (as I've seen that around a bunch), the real reason these things feel so incredibly bad is just how ridiculously strict the sources are for something that has so much variance to it. I get wanting to get people to run Dual Destiny at least once to unlock the privilege of seeing them in other places, but why is the ONLY other place a friggen 1% drop chance from PATROL chests?!? These things are so incredibly bad I've fully resorted to just waiting for them to be given to me by running a chest farming macro. I am a massively below average rng man, and I spent an entire week grinding Dual destiny with a friend, on top of an additional week doing Overflow chest grinding when said friend got everything they wanted by session three and I felt like an ass asking them for more. I still, after all of that, + an additional 80+ class items (so far) from macro grinding, haven't seen Inmost Light/Star Eaters (my main desired roll since day one) on my warlock. This isn't even to bring up the other classes, who have sat languishing with 'whatever the heck they got in the first few runs' and nothing else. This sh!t is terrible, and actively broke me so hard I full left the game beyond macro grinding and haven't played it since. Shadow of the Erdtree helped with that, but it really just showed the contrast of 'ohh this is a game that respects me AND my time and actually gives me avenues to succeed via exploration and guaranteed item finding. Gosh this is such a breath of fresh air compared to the literal DAYS of my life I will never get back that literally yielded me nothing but garbage'. I never in a million years would have thought I'd ever us a macro, 'why not just play the game forhead?' I always thought. But when the game is this unfun, this unmotivated to be fun, and is so bad it want's me to make sure that I hate both Duel Destiny AND overflow with a white hot passion (which I do, both are boring as sin and the absolute worse piles of trash to me now and I never want to see them again), then fine, I'll let the computer do it. At least it can't get bored.
Ergo sum has the same problem, I have been grinding overthrow for the past week trying to get the perfect fifth caster frame. I have probably gotten every other possible combination. The problem is there is no bad luck protection and majority of the rolls are just simply not desirable. The only upside is that overthrow is not the worse activity in the game
What about directional loot? Before you enter the activity you may choose like 3 rolls that you want to drop on the completion of the activity... That would solve all those problems!
It should be made a reward on the Pale Heart Pathfinder. Get your 2 Ergo Sum drops for the week and every Pathfinder completion after that drops an exotic class item. I wouldn't put them at the end of every activity. That seems too much. Maybe a weekly rotation for dungeons, raids, exotic missions, and nightfalls, similar to pinnacles or the current dungeon/raid rotation but could be different from the current rotation. Another idea would be to throw exotic class items into the daily lost sector rotation with one perk being a guaranteed drop. So day 1 is guaranteed Spirit of Assassin but the second perk is RNG for every class. Day 11 would be a random first perk and guranteed Spirit of Verity, etc. This would be the ultimate solo farm.
Hell, I’d love if our exotic ghost shells had a new column tying them to potential drops from future exotic class items, like one perk could be picked and all your drops would be variations of that one perk plus something else
Legend/Master version of Dual Destiny which drops class items with 2 Spirits in the left and right columns. If my math is correct, then you have a 1/16 chance of getting the combination you want instead of 1/64. Also significantly cuts down on vault space taken up since each of these are essentially 4 single spirit class items in one.
Would an improvement be adding additional perks options based on number of Pale Heart reputation resets per episode/expansion? Like ritual drops, just adding more options per class item, to cut down the total number to farm to 'all necessary perks'. If Bungie wanted to keep it exclusive though, making it so that Dual Destiny dropped with more perk slots, or had target perk in a single column farming available, or some bonus exclusive to other generic sources. And the same PvP rules apply, hotswapping between perks mid activity triggers ability depletion.
I dont mind using lfg for harder content at all. What locked me out of it was the two player aspect and the fact that I play without a mic. Three player activities can get around the communication issues, especially since i can still hear the other players. I just can't talk back. Honestly, I'm underwhelmed by primatic so far anyway. I still haven't bothered to unlock all of it. Running solar and Hazardous Propulsion, with Sunshot, and crafted rolls of The Call and Apex Predator with triple solar surge. Honestly, a very fun and effective build.
I think another good idea to reduce drops is to wear a desired exotic roll during the dual destiny mission. If I want synthoceps and something else, I would wear the gauntlets and wait for a good drop with synth being a guaranteed roll.
Come talk about it with me live: twitch.tv/mactics
Also I already know a lot of people are going to skip the video to comment some version of “oh wah wah just grind.”
Most folks are happy to grind, they just want different options of things to play to do that grind. That simple, mic drop 👍🏼
I use a macro, and everyday, I wake up with 99 gunsmith engrams, 200k glimmer, 7-9 exotic class items from doing nothing. Any other game I’d get banned for this, feels dirty. That being said, I’ve 55+/64 on both hunter and warlock, no way I’m farming this manually unless they introduce some sort of bad luck protection. It’s a pity cause the mission is great, but getting dupes really isn’t fun.
I agree with this video
@slothmanjay5029 i hate to break it to you but technically that could be considered a cheat. It is in other games and considering Bungie have banned people for haveing cheats on your hardware i wouldn't trust it
THE solution would be to have a menu ON the Class Item itself where we could choose the perk we want from column 1 and column 2 (Provided you have found a class item with that perk before). This way we don't have to keep 192 Class items in the vault. We don't have to masterwork every single roll we want to use and we don't have to Artifice them either.
This would have been the perfect solution.
Just add a panel on the Exotic class item that lets us pick and chose the perks we have unlocked and want to be active on said class item.
This also lets us track what combos we have available and let's us track the ones we have yet to unlock.
Then add some dupe protection like a knock out system and voila !
@@futur4343 This is the way
Now that you mention it, it really SHOULD be on pathfinder. A guaranteed drop on ritual and pale heart pathfinder is needed.
exactly, i dont see why we need ergo sum on the pathfinder when the overthrows are giving them as a guaranteed drop
Good point. Even of Bungie wanted to be tight they could male it every other pathfinder completion and it would still be far better than the current method.
@@endyru1926 yup and they should drop randomly from everything in the game just like other exotics
I literally play solo i cant get it would be nice for solo players to be obtainable.
Or even just give an option of class item or the sword
They shouldn’t allow dupes
Right? 64 combinations and I’ve got 10 of the same one? Fuck that.
@@RANDOMLYPWND somehow i haven't gotten a dupe yet...only have 25 so far though...and luckily have pretty much all the god rolls somehow...only one's i still want are renewal/liars and renewal/cyrtarachne
For reeeeeeeal
Then there's no need to have any RNG at all. Run it 64 times, then done forever.
So at that, just make all perks selectable.
This is a problem that doesn't need a solution. The problem is the the player.
Absolutely. It’s already a 1/64 chance. As an extreme example, if an RNG cursed player got his desired roll on drop #64, approx ~20min per drop, that’s about 21 hrs of pure farming WITHOUT dupes. With dupes you’re looking at possibly double, triple that time or even more.
Horribly implemented system. No wonder people are resorting to macros.
There are more problems that I see… with 192 possible class item rolls in total, storing all of them would take up almost 1/3 of your vault space, which is ridiculous.
It also isn’t very easy to expand on if Bungie were to ever add more traits. Just one more trait in each column would mean 17 more total possible rolls per class item.
To solve both these problems, I see a simple solution. Instead of dropping a class item with two random rolls, have the class items be able to swap in and out different traits (similar to mods or multiple perks on weapons). The first class item you unlock (from the mission) would give you access to a random trait from the first and a random trait from the second. Each additional “drop” of the class item gives you access to one trait you don’t already have for that class item (works on a knock out system. The same trait on different class items needs to be acquired separately for each class, for example earning spirit of the syntho for Warlock, doesn’t unlock it for Titan or Hunter). This means that for the current traits in the game, you would only need to earn 15 drops of the class item to fully unlock each perk combination, while also only needing you to have one physical item on your character/in your vault, as you can freely swap out traits once unlocked, giving you lots of freedom to try out different combinations and work out what works and what doesn’t. This also means if Bungie wanted to add more traits, you only have to earn the trait itself to unlock all the combinations with it. One more in each column would mean 2 more drops, not 17 (minimum in the current system).
So is this your originally idea? if not, who do we credit?
@@leisureavidgentleman8901 if this is similar to someone else’s idea, that’s by coincidence. This is my original idea
The main problem with this idea is honestly the implementation of it. Bungie would need to find a way to allow for essentially 8 perks in a column, and would also need to find a way to put some punishment on for swapping these perks out. Which based on how long it has taken them to solve the envious to cascade swap on Edge Transit, is much easier said then done. But the idea is really nice, if it's possible would be a very ideal way of doing it, but I am worried it'll be a bit too small of a grind.
@@cerulean5032 I think the answer is literally in your own comment, once they fix the envious/cascade on Edge Transit they will have the knowledge of how to implement the perk swap punishment for most if not all of the perks already. Then coming to having so many perks in one column they could uniquely change perk columns into perk rows and then do 2 rows of 8 exotic perk options which may be a little confusing but I think since the exotic class item is so unique it would be recognizable
@@ne12follow there are some ideas floating out there I’ve read that are very similar to yours. Honestly I don’t think any of it will come to fruition. If anything, they either implement something similar to what matics was presenting, but on a much smaller, limited scale.
I agree that these should drop from anywhere. We could talk to death about other solutions but this is the best one. Pale Heart can get stale, the exotic mission as well. Just make it a normal exotic drop and let us find it, not farm it.
The second thing is just the vault space issue. I think these should be craftable with the ability to extract a perk, even if not permanent. I don’t need 64 copies of a class item in my vault.
Agreed at this point 60% of a community will never even get one waste of resources
Honestly I think the solution is the item should be changed to be everyone just has one exotic class item, and the exotic perks are "mods" you slot in. Then we just have to unlock 16 exotic perks for the one item
And you unlock the perks from drops? I think that would make the mission still something people do
I like this one!
It would take away the grind/farm that some players like/hate, but it would make holding onto one class item feel worth it without people getting a conniption over holding onto 64 for each class.
@@andrewmcqueen4897 Yeah, but then you permanently have that perk unlocked, and it would be removed from the loot pool. Also, you can slot into whatever combo you need and it makes it so you don't have to grin for the right combination, just individual perks. It's way more rare to get an exact combination of two perks than to just unlock 16 things individually.
@@KS-mn7qk What if the perk was "consumed" upon use? We used to have consumable mods (and still do in the confetti mod from Dares); if you were to swap the perk, you would need to reacquire it.
@@Alaric323 I mean I feel like that would still decrease the grind by a decent amount still. Because you're rolling for two individual 1/8 chances (assuming each column keeps it's own unique perk pool). That's way better odds than what it is right now. And ideally you'd just get another class item and put a new combo of the mods on if you want to change it, rather than changing a good roll you already have.
Turn it into a crafting system.
Run the mission to unlock the "schematic" or w/e.
Dismantle an exotic, get a "Spirit Shard of 'X Exotic'". Get some arbitrary number of shards (3? 5? 10?) to make the full spirit. Get 2 spirits to craft the item.
Create an inventory slot similar to the Engram Tracker and have it track all of your shards.
Easy day.
Although I do like the guaranteed drops from GM Exision idea
That's a lot of dismantled exotics though, which you would then grind for or have to focus just to dismantle
I'm on board with this, minus the economization. I've been saying for a while now that everything should be craftable and that perks should unlock from dismantling.
Absolutely not. Fuck the mission.
Simplify if even more. Just allow players to use exotic engrams to craft them. Maybe make it cost two engrams. Honestly I have no use for trying to get any of the regular exotics for the most part so basically every exotic engram I open I dismantle the item. It would also be nice if you could use them on the regular classes and not just prismatic.
I’d happily spend an exotic cipher, shard, alloy (whatever) to pair 2 class items together - 1 column left slot and 1 column right slot. I’d be basically trading that time I used to earn those mats with runs of dual destiny. I’m at least 40 runs deep and haven’t gotten the top 3 I’ve wanted. In fact, I’ve gotten only 1 hoil roll.
This is actually an amazing idea and probably very well balanced with the ascendant/cipher cost. If you're grinding for that ONE combo, it encourages play (which should be bungie's goal) as you can see progress towards the final combo rather than just rolling your eyes and switching off in disappointment.
Probably could also be implemented lore-wise quite easily in a future update as "our understanding of it become more complete" or something.
I’m calling BS on your claim. If there’s a 1/8th chance to roll any specific perk from a column, the cumulative probability of rolling that perk *at least* twice during 40 attempts is 96.8%.
It’s not impossible that you’re telling the truth, but it’s extremely likely that you’re either exaggerating or just plain lying.
@@BahamutBreakerare you on Xbox? I’ll happily send a screenshot
@@BahamutBreakerhow about join my fireteam and we’ll go to the tower and I’ll literally equip each roll?
@@paulwilson2204I’m still waiting in the tower - how about after maintenance ends? Btw I got 3 more rolls since my comment - all duplicates / no hoil perk. I literally counted them in my vault = 43, on my guardian masterworked = 5. Don’t recall how many I’ve deleted (a lot though at least 10 conservatively)
I think the middle ground will end up being letting us focus class items with exotic engrams at Rahool.
This is just the correct answer
maybe a trade up type system too where 3 class items becomes 1 rerolled one
@@GUyGuyManManPerson 3 for just a reroll sounds brutal for how sparce they are rn.
Maybe sacrifice 2 class items and choose 1 exotic perk from each + exotic engrams?
It’s more then likely what they will do next expansion.
My main problem is that I play other games too. I'm also an adult so my play time is limited these days and I'm not particularly willing to dedicate a massive amount of it to D2 to farm these things.
For example I logged on yesterday to run the GM a few times and then I was done, after that I wanted to go play a different game. I probably won't be on again until the weekend and I want to do crucible not farm some mission or run around endlessly in the pale heart.
I would say overall my biggest gripe with D2 these days is that they really like to try and tell us what to do. The pathfinder is telling me what to do. Getting the newest exotics only has two options and neither of them are something I want to do. The artifact is telling me what types of guns to run. The list could go on.
My point is that players who have paid to unlock everything should be able to do whatever they want and have a chance to get relevant rewards. I
The answer is simple and easy to fix. Similar to the way The Elder Scrolls Online had the same issue. They introduced a 'sticker book' that only dropped rolls you don't have. Then once the 'books' completed you would get random rolls. This would save even if you deleted the roll but can't require from the said book
So the one change that I think would be nice but I could see it make the Dual Destiny mission useless in the long term is: Make the Class Item a craftable item with a unlock feature similar to Whisper or Outbreak where as you have the perks unlocked, via the Dual Destiny mission or from completing the first few Pathfinders a week, we can slot in the Spirit we want at a cost of materials. This way we could cut down on #1 needing so many vault spots for each class and #2 getting duplicate rolls.
Zero hour, vox obscura, and the whisper quest are all already pointless after the few runs it takes the unlock everything; so I don’t think that should be a big concern
@@derek3231true , plus it would take some runs to get all the perks you want probably
Agreed!
I would also add ergo sum sword to this.
One of the reasons crafting was introduced is to safe vault space.
All the tools are there.
Not sure y they are not using it
Should just add a material to the Dual Destiny mission that is required to slot a different Spirit. Just a generic material like "unharnessed spirit."
@@derek3231Yes but if the perks were still RNG it would still take a while while reassuring you that worst case scenario you run the mission 34 times. That's still a week's worth of grinding.
How about this. Make the class items craftable and you unlock the perks by acquiring a class item with those perks once. Sure would help the vault too.
I like this
This is the solution. I dont want 192 class items in my vault.
This is the one!👌🏾
This is exactly what it should be. Was just telling my buddy this last night.
Making them craftable doesn't solve anything.
Firstly, You'd still need to grind for the petks you want.
2) You'd still need crazy amounts of space in your vault for every combo. Nobody wants to use materials every time you want to use a different perk combo (because that's how crafting works, you can't switch out perks without spending materials) there is no way that Bungie would put all column one perks and all column two perks on one class item.
Done farming them. Over 100 on my hunter and still haven’t seen all the perks synthoceps being the main one I want and haven’t got a single one with that perk ON ANY CLASS
It took me about 100 without Inmost Light on my Hunter, then two in a row was with that + Synto. Just two dupes of that back-to-back. Its so crazy with the dupes. And that so many perks are TRASH.
I’ve gotten ten with synthos but no heart of inmost light yet
go buy a lottery ticket ticket dude. If youre telling the truth, that’s insane. About a 1 in a million shot of farming 100 and not getting a single synthoceps roll
@@aidang1629 100% telling the truth you should see my vault shit is a joke
I'm in the same boat
Let's also acknowledge that exotic class items were overhyped, I got caliban liars and its either slightly better than liars handshake sometimes, but usually a lot worse.
The healing from liars is there for a reason and it just feels better to use
Exotic class items are a second option, but not what we thought to be the best option.
Agreed. These exotic class items are mostly underwhelming, or, at best, roughly on par with a regular exotic armor from the head/hands/chest/legs slots.
As a hunter main. I'm only interested in verity's with in most light because those are exotics I can't get for the hunter.
Everything else is whatever since I can already do that with the og exotics
@@BahamutBreakerjust because caliban suck... Im actualy using liar+renewal with stasis nade and its realy good for gm onetwopunch rushin built... Idk
@@BahamutBreaker star eater class item is the sole reason to use prismatic titan for damage.
One thing that gripes me is the storage space. Why only 700? If i want all of the exotic class items i have to spend just shy of half my space to keep them.
I desperately hope that Bungie allows us to transmog the cloak because the only armor that looks good with it is the prismatic armor from the battle pass
Yea it’s trash. Basuda!!!!
I feel like they’re not going to because they’re just gonna keep making more purchasable exotic ornaments
I've gotten some stuff to look at least cohesive together with it from some mix n match solstice gear, the celestial chest, and (since I'm using arc melee primarily I liked it for flavor) the arc themed arms. Though the shaders feel basic in black and white.
there is a lot more fashion than just this seasons battlepass thats goes with it, theres the ghost of the deep armour set, the season of the deep season pass set, the arms from last seasons set matches the crown a lot and some pieces from the hunter spider set (from halloween it think, i forgot what it was called). If u have the ornament then the techeuns regalia mask, some of the dawning pieces and some of the trials pieces go with thats as well. You just have to get creative. I do agree that it either needs more ornaments that are attainable in game or just straight up allowing us to transmog it like non exotic pieces
Nah y'all just haven't figured out how to make it look good it's a combo of finding the right shaders and armor I will say it's tricky tho I originally made mine to look like the armor from the brave arsenal but with different armor pieces that weren't the brave arsenal armors
Calling it now… I say by sometime near the 3rd episode they have it In Rahool and you can focus it like other exotics. You’ll still have the rng but you’ll have to have the exotic engrams for it
I hope so 🙏
I hope so... I'm still trying to get my first dual destiny clear.😢
But with that rng rate it be even more grueling then running through dual destiny
I've been farming non-stop since the Dual Destiny double exotic was revoked, farming chests at the 'Pale Heart.' After saving up to 78 unique exotics between my vault and shared inventory, I already have pretty much the most wanted ones. Of course, there are still some left to get. After a lot of runs, I decided to make my own little spreadsheets for a few runs I did, and also farm Ergo Sums along the way.
I ended up with 12-minute runs, getting one exotic by looting chests at the Pale Heart with an average of about 30 chests per exotic. Of course, that was during my lucky runs; there were cases where I went even to 72-82 chests, taking around 35 minutes for those runs. Why did I do this? Because at the end of the day, just farming Dual Destiny, being the fastest way, only awards one single exotic, while running the Pale Heart rewards me with Banshee engrams, reputation = lumen, drops, as well as some random drops from the world loot pool like 'Crux Termination,' where I got my desired god roll and all the Ergo Sums I wanted so far.
So yes, Dual Destiny is the fastest, but not the optimal. When you consider all the time you will have to keep running Overthrow for a while after you get those rolls, I feel like farming in the Pale Heart with or without a macro is the fastest way overall to get various things at the same time.
Is it fun? Of course not. I'm so bored of it that I want some changes like the ones proposed by Mactics in his video. I even thought of a crafted exotic class item: when you get one exotic class item with your desired perk in column one, some kind of extract pattern like a red border could consume the exotic. Then, another one with your desired perk in column two could be consumed to craft a new one with consumable perks at the Enclave or something like that."
I have heard this as well. I'm still looking for my first Dual Destiny clear. Would you be down to run Dual again? 🍻
I also think it would be a good idea to be able to focus one column of perks, that way you can always know that you'll get at least one perk that is wanted
I could see a method similar to crafting where you sacrifice two of the class items and get to pick one perk from each.
Thank you for crunching the numbers for us to accurately quantify how bad the situation has been. I sincerely hope bungie hears this and makes changes.
Having grinded both the mission and pale heart, and having a 60% duplicate drop rate, I am done grinding it (and still dont have the drops that I want).
I understand your solution, but I still think that its not the best approach. Because it doesnt help with the biggest issue with how exotic class items, vault space needed to hold these rolls.
I think that the better approach would be to have one class item, with ability to unlock the exotic perks for it through dual destiny (or other activities) by earning exotic materials that you can craft into the class item.
I already have 6-7 class items on my character, in addition to 2-3 standard class items to swap in for different activities (with raid mod slots or rep boosts). I used to never have any class items in my vault, but now I have quite a few, and need to save infusion fuel when a powerful drops as a class item to be able to bring my next class item up to 2000.
The concept of the exotic class items was good, but the implementation was very short sighted and poor.
W idea. It could be kinda like a skill tree
You last phrase essentially sums up the entire Destiny development cycle
Vault space Defo a problem 😢
I've never even started grinding, not done the mission either. I like my current builds and they work fine, why would i waste lots of time on something that doesn't seem fun for me ? The grind for that perfect God roll is insane : doing the same thing over and over and over...and still getting the same result : crap. Naah, i'll pass on that insanity.
Yea should be able to get all the perks on one class item after unlocking them all
Having one in the Pale Heart Pathfinder would be nice too
One element you didn't cover is once you have all 192 class items how do you store them? What should be done is that once a perk is unlocked you should be able to slot it at will
Sorry if already mentioned... why not allow us to focus class items with generic exotic engrams through Rahool?
As a solo player I haven’t even touched the mission.
Me either other thing holding me back is I suck at puzzles
I can help you with it. Its easier than it seems
skill issue fr fr
that there is a skill issue. Not the class item drop rate issue
Watch a few guides so you have an idea of what to expect. Google vow symbols and the second image that shows up is good, try to learn those but at least have it open to give proper call outs. I have taken probably 20 first time peeps through this, it’s not that hard.
I hate when people don’t want to Mic and expect me as PS5 player to type..like No.
Also when people are too lazy to pull up the symbols and just go around describing everything…I just leave😏.
Man, this has been the most frustrating thing in the game. Looking at these numbers, the discouragement is even greater. I honestly think it's unacceptable that an item that's so hard to get, with so many different combination possibilities, doesn't have protection against duplicates. Very frustrating!
I like that you brought a different angle to the discussion. Activity variety is so helpful in avoiding burnout. It makes sense thematically to have them drop from the Pale Heart destination, but it also makes sense to first "discover" (unlock) them in the Pale Heart, then be able to get more elsewhere.
I have a different issue with these Class Items: vault space. It's a lot of items to store, and it's a pain to find the one I'm looking for, even with tools like DIM. I would like a solution that addresses storage as well as duplicate drops.
Two ideas come to mind for me:
- Make them craftable, so I can "pull" any combination I want without needing to keep everything in case a new build becomes relevant.
- Change the Exotic effects into mods (like Aeon gauntlets), and make drop sources give mods instead of additional copies. Need to be able to pull from Collections with this change.
Why not just have the option to focus these at rahool for 2 shards and an engram? And for that matter, why can’t exotic engrams at base have a chance to drop a class item same as any other exotic?
As a solo player who doesn’t like to use a mic unless truly necessary, I can’t understand why they would hide the exotic class item behind a coop mission that REQUIRES a mic
❤ 100%. It sucks
@@nickmod2011yup I bet 60% of the community will never even get one. I know I have no chance of it…. It sucks cause I would play and grind if I had a way to actually get it.
If they would remove this more people would be playing for sure
I partly agree with you, but I think there might be a solution that is tailored more to the current state of the game:
1. Increase Drop rates for Overthrow Events (not by a large margin)
2. Split the Perk pool between the Overthrow areas (First Column)
3. Split the Perk pool between the Overthrow events (second column)
The idea is, to be able to target farm faster, and give meaning to what events you pick when doing overthrow.
As Bungie, I would keep the distribution a secret, so the community can optimize and find good ways to get to the drops
(Normal chests should be untouched imo)
The aim is similar to your idea: Mission>any other way of farming it in terms off class items per hour, just with a higher chance of your desired roll.
Completionists would still spend ages farming for all class items, but people with a specific build in mind could target farm solo.
Additionally the Exotic Mission should have at least three Class items to pick from AND have reduced Duplicate options (making it the best farm)
No, just... no lmfao
@@zhaitae2470 way too complicated step 1 make them drop from everywhere step two done……
I didn’t see the solution for solo players getting these besides comments stating ‘ it is a MMO blah blah blah’. How the fix then is make them available like any other rng type of exotic drop. They were teased in trailers and at that point we should have been informed on how to get them. “ here is the activity for obtaining......”
Just do dual destiny
you literally have to run the mission one time and then you can farm solo, you can find someone to play with in 2 minutes with fireteam finder. stop making excuses cus ur a noob
These chuds can’t hear reason when it comes to LFG and solo players and that’s why nobody plays this deeply unfriendly game.
There is no such thing as a “solo player” in Destiny 2.
80% of the Destiny community is toxic, they only tell you “git gud” that’s why I stopped being able to play. This Elitist attitude Bungies let fester is nuts.
I haven’t even farmed onslaught killed me mentally I don’t have the will powr to get fucked by rng anymore
something i'm surprised i haven't seen anyone talking about is a fix by way of a double perk drop. in a vacuum, my idea was to buff the acquisition rate from higher difficulty loot sources, like overthrow chests, but give Dual Destiny a guaranteed double perk selection as though it were an adept raid weapon. it would cut the RNG down significantly, but not by so much that it loses it's luster. it may even provide a new chase, in getting four good perks likened unto two godrolls in one drop.
not sure if that's even possible under the armor framework Bungie has, but they made the Monte Carlo catalyst work through great effort, and the Aeon armor kinda does a similar thing, so i'd give them the benefit of the doubt
Doing something like the monuments of triumphs in tower. You then bring two exotics plus an exotic class enegram obtained from the duel mission To a location, then you basically merge them with one perk you want and the other perk is random(to keep a little grind).
I feel like the most realistic option is just 1-to-1 bad luck protection and keep drop sourced limited. Since it requires the purchase of TFS there's no way they'll add it to anything that a free player can do.
you'd still have to run dual destiny once for it to drop from other sources so i don't think that would be an issue.
You still have to do dual destiny to unlock it, which requires tfs
You still have to complete dual destiny
Guys, I think bro understands u need to do DD by now lol
When did I ever say you didn't need to run Dual Destiny? I said they won't add it as a drop to anything that doesn't require the purchase of TFS. What kinda illiterate nonsense is this lol
They should add a legendary version where you either get double drops or you get to choose one of the perks for one column, the other column would still be rng so it would still need to be farmed. Yeah rng sucks, but i think if you put these two changes in place it would significantly help compared to what we have now.
This seems like a good middle ground.
You still have to earn it and it's way harder than running normally, but you cut your odds of getting the roll you want down from 1/64 to 1/8.
I.... DO also think there are some exotic armors that are begging for the Class Item treatment, if only because on their own they feel underwhelming and they'd pair EXTREMELY well with some of the other class item rolls.
As one example for each class....
Warlocks: I'd kill for a class item that gave Alchemy/Filaments. Extends my rift duration AND gives me devour upon using my empowering rift. The Weapon Surge can be the part that's the nerf from the original since it's only the "Spirit of".
Hunters: Bombardiers/Coyote would be ridiculously fun. Super niche, but imagine just dodging twice near a bunch of enemies and suddenly they ignite or freeze. Bombardiers are a fun exotic and it's sad they're outclassed by so much, but this one pairing would be awesome. Maybe reduce the damage or the radius to make it "fair", even though Bombardiers is super niche as is?
Titans: They would never do it and I completely understand why, but type-neutral Skullfort with Contact OR Severance. I just wanna live my Captain America dream of endless shield throws, man.
They would have to make a selection permanent though, swapping perks is too broken of a game mechanic, look at the god rolle she transit how problematic that can become
@@Spac3_Duck I think you misunderstood what they're suggesting. They're not suggesting having multiple perks in a column to choose from, they're suggesting being able to choose one of the perks in one of the columns to guarantee you get it from doing a Hard Mode version of Dual Destiny.
This is the reason why I have not even bothered trying to get the Exotic Class Item. It is not worth it.
I agree with the more sources solution big time, BUT that all still sounds like a slog for somebody who plays literally any other games. I think they should allow crafting. This seems like the perfect opportunity and the exact reason they added crafting to the game in the first place. Maybe after I get 10 class item drops, that unlocks crafting. Then just like usual, I have to level the armor up to unlock different perks. Since it's exotic, you still have to put something in place to slow the grind down, so maybe it's just a one and done frame. You get your 10 drops, you craft your exotic item, then you need another 10 in order to craft another? IDK but you're right something has to change. Trying (mostly your) fun new builds is the only reason I ever play this game anymore. So many new builds out there rely on something that I just don't have time to grind for. Let me unlock a blueprint and work towards the exact build I want.
In my head, key to this is to retain engagement while reducing the load on players to get the perfect roll.
Exotic class item drops with random perks, this is your roll, buuuuut you can unlock perks through engagement (or maybe intrinsic quests?) that allows you to slot a new perk using endgame materials, kind of like reshaping weapons.
You get intrinsic drops in the same way as catalysts, as random drops from activities, and have to unlock them by doing the intrinsic quests before you can slot them into your exotic class piece. This incentivises re-engagement with content as bungo can force engagement for unlocks, and even choose the activities we have to do to unlock.
Doing it like crafting incentivises getting more than one exotic class item, because you'll want to keep the rolls you like available in your vault without having to recraft each time. If you set it up so that random rolled perks don't unlock the corresponding craftable intrinsic, there would still be some benefit to random rolls as you could roll certain intrinsics you don't have craftable yet.
So say you're a titan, and want a star-eater/ inmost light roll, you do dual destiny and roll a inmost/ synthoceps. In a crucible game, you get a star-eater intrinsic drop, which unlocks by getting 100 super kills and completing dual destiny (or something, haven't thought too much about it). You do your intrinsic quest, and can now slot spirit of the star-eater, which costs 100k glimmer, 3 ascendant shards, and an exotic cipher.
You now have a star-eater/ inmost light roll, but haven't unlocked syntho or inmost for crafting. If you wanted a different roll, you'd have to unlock new intrinsics, or get lucky on your 1/64 roll.
Ive dismantled so many hunter cloaks with verity or coyote perks. It's always one or the other. I just want anything with gyrfalcons😮💨
Be careful what you wish for. My first roll was gyrfalcons/spirit of the dragon. Not exactly trash but gyrfalcons carries that roll hard
Mactics, you should genuinely make a petition for this change. love the vids
Just make them craftable, Im a regular player and i've managed 3 runs on one characture, i've given up on getting a roll I want, don't have time for it.
You don't need everything in this game. If you can't spend the time grinding for it, you don't deserve it.
Collect chests in the pale heart when you are trying not to go hard
@@darbs1832 I can understand weapons being locked behind a few hours of gameplay, but at what point does it become too much? Currently, farming pale heart chests the most efficient way should give you the one you want within about 8 hours if we just use the 1/64 drop chance, this is when we don't factor in duplicates which a lot of people have been getting. Going off topic here, a lot of other weapons especially ritual ones have 12 perk columns. After you get 4 vendor resets (what takes quite a while I mind you) you have around 1/840 chance of getting the exact roll you want (masterwork and all). I'm all for stuff being locked behind harder activities or that you would need to invest some time into it, but playing a single activity like it was your full time job while in some cases also having a full time job should not be a thing. I get what you're saying, but needing to spend 8 hours running around looting chests while praying that you don't get duplicates is just terrible. (the 1/840 calculation might be a bit wrong, but you get the point)
TL;DR
getting the roll that you want on class item takes about 8 hours without getting duplicates and ritual weapons can take a very long time to get
@@darbs1832I have spent this entire weekend grinding, don’t give me this “you don’t deserve if you don’t grind” crap, the drop chance is atrocious
@@darbs1832Typical destiny crayon eater response. I bet you also had a justification for Sunset, uh?
Every time you get one of the class items, the perks that are rolled on it are “added” to a aeon-type perk deal where we can choose them from a list of previously acquired perks, so it’d continuously grow larger, so we don’t need to have a gorrillian umber of class items, but one, which we can mix and match whenever we feel like it. Think like how the exotic perks for craft able exotics drop when you do like, expert/master Whsiper or whatever. This, plus being able to get the items through pathfinders, and as ritual rewards, is what I think would make it a much, MUCH better way to grind them out.
I personally agree with adding more sources, but not sure about putting them all throughout the game.
Here’s my though:
Make completion of any activity IN THE PALE HEART have a chance to reward the class item. this would include Micah’s quests, Ghost resets, overthrow completions, etc.
Easier activities have very low chance, but more difficult activities (gm excision, liminality, master salvations edge) have a 100% chance.
The sad thing is that the only way Bu gie learns is when the player base drops, they start laying off people, and Daddy has to intervene. Oh well. 🙄
Yup - Sony to the rescue!
Another solution could be focusing them at Rahool. As we unlock class items organically, we could unlock perks to focus based on the perks on our organically found class items. And to make it less OP, we could focus only one perk of our choice while the other is still up to RNG.
For example, if I complete Dual Destiny and receive a caliban-verity roll, I now unlock the ability to focus a ‘caliban-random’ OR ‘random-verity’ class item at rahool.
I think a unique option to help alleviate the headache when farming a particular role would be:
Once per week, via Ghost/Rahul, guardians can turn in an exotic cypher+exotic engram+an exotic armor to get a class item with a guranteed roll determined by whichever exotic armor piece was used for this.
I.e. if you turn in cypher+engram+synthoceps = a exotic class item with synthoceps perk +random perk.
While not the most ideal considering the materials needed, it would help narrow down the drop chances of the second perk to get the ideal roll you are looking for.
Great video and good talking points. I hope Bungie looks more into this and comes up with a better way to farm these items.
I've been thinking about this for a few days and had some interesting ideas.
Starting off with some Dual Destiny adjustments:
1st: Add double loot drops at the end of the mission
2nd: Add an expert version that has adds a chance for the exotic class items to drop with double perks on each column
3rd: Add triumphs that increase the chance for double perks to drop (not the number of perks, but the chance that each item will have double perks).
Now for excision:
1st: Make it drop an exotic class item at the end with two on Grandmaster difficulty
2nd: Make the ones on Grandmaster have a chance to drop with double perks just like Dual Destiny.
3rd: Again, GM triumphs for a higher chance at double perks
Now lastly for the Pale Heart in general:
1st: higher drop chance on Expert/Master Lost Sector chests and from the final Overthrow chest
2nd: a bit higher chance to drop from chests in general
3rd: Way lower chance to get an exotic class item with the same perk combo as one you already have across all sources
On that note, can we please get more Ergo Sums from Pale Heart Pathfinders?? I still don't have a single one with wolfpack or perfect fifth
Someone else mentioned it, but i agree with them, have it drop from path finder. Like once per week, you have a guaranteed drop of getting the exotic class item for each character. And then if you want do more pathfinder the drops goes down to 75%, 50%, then 25% and stays at the percent.
in addotion to the increase of the sources, they could add, as for adept raid drops, a chance foe additional perks to choose from. Like for GM excision, it could guarantee ONE (and not 2 of 3) from, but with guaranteed 2 perks, which would give a 1/16 chance to have the roll you want (2/8 for 1st column, and 2/8 for 2nd), with maybe a slight chance for a 3rd perk in one, the other or both columns. The harder the activity, the higher the drop chance of an exotic class item is, and a chance for additional perks to choose from to significantly reduce the ods of not getting anything valuable
To me, in order to get the exotic class item,
1. You need to do the quest
2. After completing the quest it'll be part of the exotic engram drop (though you can not focus it)
3. You can unlock it via pathfinder only from the pale heart
4. You can also have a 50% chance of getting it from the overthrow event (ergo sum will still be a guarantee drop)
The change that I've had rolling around in my mind is to have a perk focus system.
The idea itself has a vendor (likely Ghost in the Pale Heart) with the ability to guarantee a single perk on any exotic class item you get from the Dual Destiny mission. This would take every drop from a 1/64 to a 1/8 with your focused perk guaranteed. This way you would be practically guaranteed the role you want within 16 runs of Dual Destiny taking the total number of runs down to about 128 in order to get every role. But the main draw of this change is that it allows people to more easily get the role/s that they are looking for.
One solution would be to add a ghost mod that you can equip that guarantees a particular perk when getting an exotic class item. I imagine it might be hard to programmically do that since not all perks are the same for each class. The overall game system would have to load in the mod options on your ghost(s) when choosing your class, and also take that into account when opening a chest with an exotic class item as a reward. But I think this would make it less problematic if Bungie could pull this off.
At the end chest, have an option like in raids to change something. Possibly reroll the one you just received or use a held exotic engram to pick/lock one trait and reroll the second. I definitely agree to eliminate the hard duplicate chances, however just selling them at a vendor is not a good option either.
Allowing them as focused engrams from Rahool would be amazing. Also (bear with me) you could make them craftable? Get 5 (or more) red border versions, then take it to the Enclave. Acquiring levels in the item would just require wearing it (or boosting with Cores) and higher levels unlocks more perks in each column. Make it 1 new perk per 3-5 levels, but keep each level up requiring the same exp.
I think something that could help tremendously is to fix the core issue of the class item, that being that people only want very few of the 64 combinations. More synergy between the two perks that lead to a new gameplay loop would revive the class item entirely
When the exotic class items came out I completed Dual Destiny with a friend and then just went to farm the pale heart chests . I got liars calibans on my SECOND CHEST.
I want to get Apotheosis Star Eaters for my Warlock and I don’t even have the heart to start hunting for it because I just know I used up a lifetime’s worth of luck on my Hunter.
They need to just add them to rahool and allow ppl to buy them from the vendor with in game currencies
It would also be nice to be able to, by co suming 2 class items (and a lot of mateirials, like 2 or 3 exotic cyphers) and deleting them you could pick one perk of each class item deleted, fusing the two of them in one class item that's of you interest.
This would make exotic class items that aren't the roll you're looking forward still be useful.
I watched your video and remembered with delight "Chalice of Opulence" from "The Menagerie". It contained blue, red, green and purple runes, through which you could get the desired loot. Imagine how this can be implemented with "Exotic Class Items". For example: guardians are in search of runes throughout the world of Destiny, these runes can be crafted into a “charged particle”, which will be responsible for the desired perk in the “Exotic Class Item” (by combining runes with each other or for example with armor, as if you were taking green and red runes and combine with "synthoceps" and would receive the "spirit of synthoceps"). Then, after crafting two “charged particles,” the guards go through the “two destinies” mission, where at the end they combine these two “charged particles” and receive an “Exotic Class Item” with the necessary perks. Previously, the bungee had a fantasy, but now this fantasy hit the 20-minute passage of "Two Fates" and 40 minutes of running through chests.
In my personal opinion I think double perks in each column is a good solution.
It reduces drop rate for desired roll to 1/16 (if I’m mathing correctly)
Best idea I’ve heard was to make it function like Aeons where once you’ve unlocked a perk, it’s now selectable trait that can be swapped out like mods.
They need to make it a single exotic item (per class) with unlock-able perks. If you get a roll with that perk to drop it unlocks the perk in that column. That would also make it so when you get a horse drawing to drop it wouldn’t be a complete L, which would make the drops you do get twice as likely to be exciting to get. Put it on a 12 hour cooldown or make it where only your ghost in the pale heart can “reshape” it. It would save so much vault space and still allow you to have “every roll”.
I always liked the idea of pulling perks out of a drop. For example if you got dragons shadow and worm husk. There was away of pulling the dragons shadow perk and infusing it into another class item. There would be a cost to do it but that way the rng wouldn’t be such a problem.
My idea would be to enable random drops from all sources (including the dual destiny mission, so a chance at a double drop after the first run), but to enable them, you have to run dual destiny once per week. So at reset on Tuesdays, you'll have to get one run in before random drops are enabled. That way, you don't kill the exotic mission, and people can still grind it if they want to.
Great idea! I do think the idea of potentially getting 3 exotic class item drops from GM excision is a bit of a stretch but all other suggestions seem more than reasonable to me. I myself try to acquire all the loot/triumphs in the game and you hit the nail on the head when you expressed how discouraging it is for players like myself when we start to calculate how long it is going to take to collect all of these exotic class items.
An idea i had, is whenever you complete dual destiny, you are given a class item that is disabled by default and has multiple perks per column, you can "lock in" whatever perks you want, after doing that you cannot change your roll.
A nice idea would be to make it so you unlock the aspects with luck so you can just have one exotic class item be able to change the aspect on each side. This would also solve my problem with the exo class item clustering my inventory. So you need only one class item and the loadout save what aspects you use in said class item. This would also make it easier for more aspects to be added to the exo class item if that ever happens.
Regardless of the RNG fix there is always going to be a second big issue and that is there is 64 combos for each class requiring you to store up o 64-192 class items as you are chasing your rolls. Even 64 is to many to keep in your vault.
Simple solution that works with lore and keeps people running dual destiny:
Have an artifact at the end of dual destiny that uses the powers of darkness to remember (Like deep sight from the Relic on mars) and Light that will materialize this memory….
That Artifact at the end of dual destiny requires that you have completed dual destiny but then lets you re-Craft an Exotic Class item with perks you have already unlocked.
This requires you to run dual destiny or obtain the class item through the other means quite a few times still (but a lot less than a few hundred) but then it let’s you be safe keeping a few roles you like or are testing with a build and then recraft one with perks you already unlocked after another run of Dual Destiny. This would also help our vaults from bulging.
I am more inclined to some of the comments suggesting crafting wherein you can breakdown a drop and unlock the spirits (or maybe a choice?) and use them to craft a roll. OR something akin to Aeons wherein you do the same thing, but you can swap perks to your heart's content without having to craft different rolls (this would solve the inventory/vault issue). Another option is following what ritual playlists do and have the number of ghost resets give you increased perks per column.
Additionally, the assumption here is that Bungie does not add any more perks to the pool. Considering Bungie wants to keep expanding prismatic out, I wouldnt be surprised if new spirits find their way into the drop table for this armor in some sort of refresh. Even a single new perk in each column takes the chances of your ideal combination from 1/64 to 1/81.
I think adding a focusing option would be good as there is one for almost everything else like if you dismantle one class item you get one currency different for each class and you could spend 2-3 to focus a random roll with knockout protection or you could spend like 10 to Gurantee one perk and the other column be random
I think they should add a collections tab that allows us to just pull the rolls we aren't using whenever. That's alot of vault space being used up over 3 characters. Considering we very rarely get more vault space I think this should be implemented. Another way is to maybe make it after you've collected all the possible combinations you can then just keep one class item and swap the perks from there. I personally like the collections idea better.
I was/am hoping that at some point they “combine” the exotic class items into one item with selectable perks. You’d still have to grind out the combination you want, but it reduces the amount of items you have sitting in your vault. I was also hoping that there would end up being a series of secret items in the exotic mission that would allow you to “pick” a perk on the class item you get. A fun way to do it would be to offer a left side perk and a right side perk and you would be guaranteed one of those two perks. It still retains the random drops, but gives you the chance to focus in if you’re going for a specific roll.
That said, I need them to come out with better ornaments before I really start caring about it. The hunter cape is way to much for me and I hate using it. Hoping they dump some ornaments on us before I’m able to get the Inmost/Gyrfalcon and Renewal/Cyrtarachne rolls I’m still trying to farm out. Still can’t believe my luck getting the Galanor/StarEater roll!
I agree with a lot of this video. I think that we should greatly restrict the chances of getting dupes down to a 1 in 10 chance, give a 15 or 25 percent chance of getting a roll anywhere else you get exotics to spawn, and maybe after 10 runs per week we can get a 'border' that will let us select a guaranteed rool on one of the perks while the other is random. It would be cool and then they could add that every 20 runs you could do that. So basically in a week if you did 40 runs you would get 3 'borders' to select half of an exotic class item.
One thing I'd like is a way to guarantee one of the perks is what you want, I had the idea of wearing a specific exotic to guarantee, or at least increase the chance, of a class item getting the corresponding perk
Here’s what I thought they should have done
First 2 pathfinders every week should reward 2 exotic CI drops
Class Items should also have 3-4 rolls on them because 64 different rolls is god damn ridiculous I have a life I can’t game like that anymore
Simply allow focusing in the first column with the ghost- ez pz
One more solution could be that if you acquire 2 exotic class items but the first perk you want is on the first one and the second one you want is on the second slot of the other there’s should be a system Where you can combine the 1st and 2nd perk from each of the class items…
Could use a "crafting" system where getting the same perk multiple times allows it to become unlocked in any pact you want to reforge (maybe right where we drop ghosts in the lost city)
AbsoLOOTly! There are many clan members who got burnt out farming their exotic class items. Great suggestions and excellent content as usual @Mactics, thanks.
If anything there should be an option to focus the exotic class item that way you get a certain slot with the perk you want guaranteed. Kind of like Rahool focusing exotics. Either spending a couple of ascendant shards or exotic cypher for a guaranteed perk you want in either the first or second slot. Or bungie allowing double drops on certain weeks for the exotic class mission.
I’ve been farming this for the past 3 weeks, collecting the exotic class items five times in one day. Still not getting the roll I want.
ay atleast u guys get theses items i don't even got final shape
Appreciate all the thought you put into this. As is, these things simply aren't attainable for my group of friends and I. We all work and have families. Sure one here and there, but certainly can't collect em all.
If Rahool had a "Trait Tracker" where you could lock in trait combos for previously acquired cloaks (say you got a Liars and something on one, and a Calibans and something on another) you could then pay a Cipher and an Exotic Engram to lock in those two traits as your preferred drop and get a 75% chance over other rolls for it to drop either of those perks (or both but that feels too OP) but with the dupe assists it would help get all the rolls for one perk even and make it even faster
In this solution Rahool should be standing at the end of the Dual Destiny mission like Arcite in Pantheon in each run. On your first run you would sacrifice what is needed for a possible roll, then when you run again that roll would be earnable through the mission chest. Then talk to Rahool and the gameplay loop commences.
To help limit the number of items sitting in the vault, I would like to see an exotic class item that you can edit. You still have to get lucky and have the specific "spirit of" aspect drop that you want to be able to slot into the exotic, but you only have to collect 48 aspects across all three characters rather than trying to get 192 individual class items. That's over a quarter of your vault space.
What about a way to focus them? Ex, putting a specific perk on ghost to at least guarantee one of those perks, leaving the other up to chance.
They should make it simple. Make it like Aeons. Once you unlock the “mod” you can just swap the slot out. This means you only need to actually have 1 item on you at all times, giving you so much more freedom of choice for class builds, vault and inv space.
Anywhere with locked load outs / not swap would still be in affect so it’s not going to “break the game” anywhere.
Beautiful Mac! Literally agree with everything you said on the video. I don’t mind the grind at all, that’s what brings me to Destiny in the first place. But more ways to grind them out makes me feel warm inside.
You pretty much hit the full nail on the head here. While the idea of being able to 'unlock' perks and craft one's own class item I feel is more appealing (as I've seen that around a bunch), the real reason these things feel so incredibly bad is just how ridiculously strict the sources are for something that has so much variance to it. I get wanting to get people to run Dual Destiny at least once to unlock the privilege of seeing them in other places, but why is the ONLY other place a friggen 1% drop chance from PATROL chests?!?
These things are so incredibly bad I've fully resorted to just waiting for them to be given to me by running a chest farming macro. I am a massively below average rng man, and I spent an entire week grinding Dual destiny with a friend, on top of an additional week doing Overflow chest grinding when said friend got everything they wanted by session three and I felt like an ass asking them for more.
I still, after all of that, + an additional 80+ class items (so far) from macro grinding, haven't seen Inmost Light/Star Eaters (my main desired roll since day one) on my warlock.
This isn't even to bring up the other classes, who have sat languishing with 'whatever the heck they got in the first few runs' and nothing else. This sh!t is terrible, and actively broke me so hard I full left the game beyond macro grinding and haven't played it since. Shadow of the Erdtree helped with that, but it really just showed the contrast of 'ohh this is a game that respects me AND my time and actually gives me avenues to succeed via exploration and guaranteed item finding. Gosh this is such a breath of fresh air compared to the literal DAYS of my life I will never get back that literally yielded me nothing but garbage'.
I never in a million years would have thought I'd ever us a macro, 'why not just play the game forhead?' I always thought. But when the game is this unfun, this unmotivated to be fun, and is so bad it want's me to make sure that I hate both Duel Destiny AND overflow with a white hot passion (which I do, both are boring as sin and the absolute worse piles of trash to me now and I never want to see them again), then fine, I'll let the computer do it. At least it can't get bored.
Ergo sum has the same problem, I have been grinding overthrow for the past week trying to get the perfect fifth caster frame. I have probably gotten every other possible combination. The problem is there is no bad luck protection and majority of the rolls are just simply not desirable. The only upside is that overthrow is not the worse activity in the game
What about directional loot? Before you enter the activity you may choose like 3 rolls that you want to drop on the completion of the activity... That would solve all those problems!
It should be made a reward on the Pale Heart Pathfinder. Get your 2 Ergo Sum drops for the week and every Pathfinder completion after that drops an exotic class item.
I wouldn't put them at the end of every activity. That seems too much. Maybe a weekly rotation for dungeons, raids, exotic missions, and nightfalls, similar to pinnacles or the current dungeon/raid rotation but could be different from the current rotation.
Another idea would be to throw exotic class items into the daily lost sector rotation with one perk being a guaranteed drop. So day 1 is guaranteed Spirit of Assassin but the second perk is RNG for every class. Day 11 would be a random first perk and guranteed Spirit of Verity, etc. This would be the ultimate solo farm.
Hell, I’d love if our exotic ghost shells had a new column tying them to potential drops from future exotic class items, like one perk could be picked and all your drops would be variations of that one perk plus something else
Craftable on a knockout system if you get one class item with said perk you are now able to craft a class item with said perks on it
Legend/Master version of Dual Destiny which drops class items with 2 Spirits in the left and right columns. If my math is correct, then you have a 1/16 chance of getting the combination you want instead of 1/64. Also significantly cuts down on vault space taken up since each of these are essentially 4 single spirit class items in one.
Would an improvement be adding additional perks options based on number of Pale Heart reputation resets per episode/expansion?
Like ritual drops, just adding more options per class item, to cut down the total number to farm to 'all necessary perks'.
If Bungie wanted to keep it exclusive though, making it so that Dual Destiny dropped with more perk slots, or had target perk in a single column farming available, or some bonus exclusive to other generic sources. And the same PvP rules apply, hotswapping between perks mid activity triggers ability depletion.
I dont mind using lfg for harder content at all. What locked me out of it was the two player aspect and the fact that I play without a mic. Three player activities can get around the communication issues, especially since i can still hear the other players. I just can't talk back. Honestly, I'm underwhelmed by primatic so far anyway. I still haven't bothered to unlock all of it. Running solar and Hazardous Propulsion, with Sunshot, and crafted rolls of The Call and Apex Predator with triple solar surge. Honestly, a very fun and effective build.
I think another good idea to reduce drops is to wear a desired exotic roll during the dual destiny mission. If I want synthoceps and something else, I would wear the gauntlets and wait for a good drop with synth being a guaranteed roll.