If you have suggestions or corrections, comment below and I will fix them in the linked documents. Click here for the circuit diagrams, settings and parts list on my website: projectswithdave.com/diy-off-grid-home-solar-system/ Click here to use my affiliate link to Current Connected: www.currentconnected.com/?ref=pwd Click here to see the real time monitor: projectswithdave.com/daves-off-grid-monitor/ Budget 48V Battery from Signature solar ($50 off $500 site wide Coupon Code December only "EVERYDAYDAVE" ): signaturesolar.com/eg4-lifepower4-lithium-battery-48v-100ah/?ref=SALE Related build videos: Victron Basic Home Backup:th-cam.com/video/BzMAW8kW0CU/w-d-xo.html Victron Split Phase Home Backup:th-cam.com/video/ipLRNglTdhg/w-d-xo.html
Did you consider using a redox flow battery [e.g., Zinc-bromine (ZnBr) flow batteries] opposed to Lithium-Ion? I know ZnBr efficiency is only 75% opposed to 99% of Lithium, but the levelized cost of energy for ZnBr is much much lower.
I was under the impression that lithoum batteries do not do the "equalisation thing" - yet your new charger has this set What sort of lithium battery needs equalisation?
Lithium batteries need to be balanced. Usually they are top balanced. By holding the voltage at a constant level for a long period of time the internal BMS can balance each cell to the same voltage.
December is pretty rough so far. Our 8.9kW (bifacial system, so can produce a bit more than that on great days) made a little over 1000kWh in November, this month .. not great at all. But I am so glad we went with our system, our bills have been great.
Are you sure about your 1000KWh production in November? That is good since; How many kWh is normal in a month? The EIA aggregates data for the entire U.S. In 2021, the average annual electricity consumption for a U.S. home was 10,632 kilowatt-hours (kWh). Or about 886 kWh per month. I use 400KWh per month which includes charging my Tesla.
Very nice detailed video. I liked the tip on bending polycarbonate for brackets. That said your system is much too complicated for me. I'm sure it's great for many others. My goal is to keep it simple and have reliable non internet connected backup power for my essentials if the grid goes down. Thumbs up to you.
You are a real diy expert... listening from Papua New Guinea... am very interested as your set makes it very simple. need to learn more from your future presentations.
This video is a great example to why you’re appearing electrical distribution boards otherwise they are as how you make these combine boxes as you wish recently due to a whole electrical system. I thought this is worth mentioning because the customisability of making your own one is so good.
My first time watching and I'm doing Mobile RV applications but I'm very impressed. Thank you for helping me and showing us your beautiful work and attention to detail. You are an artist.
I like the simplicity of the SolArk, but it would be my luck one component in the SolArk breaks and I'll have to replace the whole dang thing. While the Victron setup is more complex, I hope replacing individual components is less painful on the wallet.
@@mfinite689 That was a concern of mine too. Checking the forums, there wasn't a lot of history of SA failures. Another thing I love about SA is they stock all parts in the US AND have amazing 24/7 support. Talking to folks that have had issues, SA will trouble shoot, get parts out right away, and walk you through DIY repair if possible. If it can't be fixed in the field, it's repaired in the states (with excellent customer based feedback). I can bypass the AIO inverter easily and I do have grid BU if I ever needed it. But one of the biggest reasons I went with this inverter was the 200A bypass and entire house BU. Super easy to wire and have the entire house powered with grid failure. But honestly, even if the inverter only lasts 10-15 years, the tech will be so much improved at that point that I'd likely end up replacing it rather than repairing anyway. With that said, I have considered picking up one of those SS/Lux Power 6000XP AIO off grid inverters for $1300 to have just in case SHTF. If nothing else, one of those would meet 99% of my needs in a real pinch.
@@mfinite689Yea, usually, what you pay for now, money, complex equipment, modular and more, save you many times in money, time and ease in knowing that everything won’t break at one time. Hope fully. But I would hope that a all in one system would have modular parts inside so you could easy swap out something that break.
This is an excellent well put together solar power system. The Victron family of solar equipment is awesome. I do wish it was more affordable. I am starting out with a grid tie system using 2Kw of solar and an 11kw battery bank. Currently the only Victron components I am using is a Victron 15/45 amp charge controller. By using the grid tie inverter I can cut a portion of my electric bill while I continue to add more solar panels and increase the size of my battery bank. Next will be to purchase two of the Victron inverters like you did.
Victron may be more expensive to start, but in my experience it is worth it in the long run. My Victron system performs the best of all the systems I've tried.
@@ProjectsWithDave Since my last comment I have purchased 24kw worth of batteries. I am about to buy 16 540 watt bifacial panels with two EG4 5k solar charge controllers they can handle 500V OC I will have two strings in series at 400V each string. It was less than half the cost of the large Victron charge controllers and I can have more panels in series. But I will use two 5k Victron Quatro inverters. I would have bought the 200 amp Victron charge controller but I spent $800 vs $2000. I did add another Victron current sensor So the Victron app will be able to "see" the power coming from the two EG4 Charge controllers.
Hey Dave -- Thanks again for all the great content! At one point in this video you talked about the energy consumption implications of your garage lights being left on all night -- I don't know if you've ever gone down the rabbit hole of Home Assistant, but it is a great solution for those sorts of automations. I've got a zigbee motion sensor in my garage, and the (300 W) lights are controlled by a lutron caseta smart switch. If home assistant detects that the [lights are on] and [Motion Detector Hasn't Detected Motion for an hour], it automatically shuts the lights back off.
Thanks! Yes, I considered it when I built my house. However I did a cost analysis at the time and determined it was cheaper to forget and leave the lights on occasionally. Now, however, I am reconsidering that because it isn't just a mater of cost, but of depleting total available power.
Great video as I'm looking to build up a PV system after testing running my office/homelab from my Aptos panels + Bluetti AC200MAX+B230.. But I'm floored at your weekly consumption. I have the same Emporia and just checked, we're averaging 250-300kWh/week for a _very_ efficient 2k/sq home, solar LED lights inside everywhere, everything that can be off, is off, and we're still 20x your weekly consumption. Wow!
That is one clean setup. Been trying to convince my dad, whom I've been working on our future studio house, to convert our 24v inverter/charge/battery system to 48v, since the panels we are using are 10 480w 48v Canadiansolar polycrystalline panels. Have to run the panels in two strings of 5 panels each, generating around 240ish volts through a combiner box. On average out here where I am at, we are generating almost 12kw on average per day, and the Midnite classic 250/100 we got from a friend, is screaming half the day. I feel if I were able to move to a Victron 450 48v MPPT, I'd be able to increase the efficiency of the system as a whole. I'd definitely be nice to run straight 400v from the panels/combiner box to our system and never have to worry about one thing or the other, even though at the moment, it's pretty rock solid with stupid fast charging time on our current 8.4kw battery bank, which is soon going to be increased to 16.8kw.
48V of course is much better, but if you already have a system in operation it would make sense to wait until an upgrade point to switch. Then maybe you can sell the old equipment to mitigate any loss.
Lightning protection should be connected 'in-the-lines'. Now you connected it in a kind of T configuration. This allows voltage across the short wires to the protection unit to add to the voltage on the converter you want to protect. High frequency characteristics of currents due to lightning makes even small induction levels dangerous.
Thanks for this presentation. The only comment for making it better would be to slow down a little when going through the screens. I personally, take screen shots and build docs for building procedure. Otherwise, great presentation.
Thanks for the input. I'm usually trying to make the video as short as possible and still fit in all the pertinent information. It can be difficult to balance.
I have a small system with 500 watts of solar and a 2000 watt ROARBATT inverter on a 100 ah battery. My charge controller is POWMR . I wish I could afford a setup like yours. Happy New Year 🎆
GREAT PROJECT DAVE! WE ALWAYS ENJOY YOUR PROJECTS & DETAILS! HAVE YOU CONSIDERED USING A LARGE PVC WIRE WAY FOR YOUR ESS CABLE MANAGEMENT, BUSSBARS, ETC… THANKS AGAIN FOR SHARING YOUR PROJECTS, KEEPING US INFORMED & EMPOWERED!
Thanks for the encouragement! It takes a lot of time to make these videos. I've considered using a wiring trough. I may do that at some point to clean things up.
Great channel! I too love Victron equipment, and mine is totally off grid, but I don’t use any automatic connection to the grid. I would have to flip some breakers on my main panel using an interconnect switch. I hope this doesn’t wear down my panel breakers, as in the winter I’m flipping them a lot!
@@ProjectsWithDave I just don’t have the confidence to do that, not to mention that it’s hard to get anybody around here who knows about solar. The only ones I can find are people who will install it from the ground up! I was surprised that if they don’t build it, they’re not interested?
Every now and again I will check your usage on your system from your website. I am only 2 hrs north of you, so it gives me a good idea of what mine could produce once I get pull the trigger. Question; On a few times (2/24/24 15:00-18:00) and a few other times, it appeared to be back feeding to the grid around 1000w. I know you have it setup to always draw around 10w from the grid so it doesn't not back feed, but it appears its been doing it and a decent amount too.
Yes, I've made a change to allow me to power some additional loads in my house during peak production times by back-feeding through the "grid" connection to a separate AC combiner. As I come into the more productive months, there is way more power available than I can store in the batteries and use with my emergency systems. This keeps me from wasting available power.
@tsWithDave Thanks. makes sense! Why not do a "pv dump" on ac out 2? Move a few loads over to another load center and wire up AC out 2, create a profile that when batteries are full and excess PV, you "trigger" ac out 2 to run on PV. Then run AC 2 for a little and allow it to draw down the battery too (just a few percent) so you can have enough battery storage and yet a buffer on AC2 so it doesn't cycle from PV to Grid frequently? That's my plan on day. Put my water heater or dryer or oven on AC2. I would like to do my pool HP, but its to big of a draw and AC2 only capable of 45 amp (i think).
Congrats on moving quite a bit off-grid. Thanks for the video Dave! I have a couple questions for you. - 30:39 Since you have AC In connected to your inverters (and Victron uses a common neutral) shouldn't you have both Ground Relays turned off as it should use the G/N bond from your AC In side? - 33:22 I believe you have an Emporia set up. Have you been able to use that to ensure that 10W is enough for your grid setpoint to prevent any possible backfeeding? 34:58 I see a lot of negative numbers in the Grid box. Correct me if I'm wrong, but aren't negative numbers power flowing back towards the grid? - Did you add any external CTs to help ensure you don't feed any power back to the grid?
If the grid is connected the system uses the house Ground/Neutral bond. If the grid looses power the system isolates itself and a relay connects the Ground/Neutral bond in one of the inverts since all the circuits are now on an island. The ESS is set up to have a net 10W load on the grid. If one leg is pulling 20W the other will push -10W to make the net 10W. I don't have external CTs hooked up at the moment all the sensing is internal to the Multiplus.
@@ProjectsWithDave My mistake regarding the G/N bond. I forgot how you had your MTS wired. Gotta love how every installation can be unique! I look forward to an update on how ESS works for you down the road. It's something I'm gonna be doing some testing with at some point as well. I went a different route to manage the AC IN based on the SOC. Thanks again for sharing all the detailed videos!
Right, every install is different, even with the same basic components. That's why I try and show as much detail as possible, but sometimes the videos just get too long. The ESS has been working great so far, like everything Victron, it just seems to work.
Dave, Incredible job! So generous to have shared your journey. Very intense but you're very competent in every task, and the video presenting and editing as well. A+ Dr. Dave! I'm just getting started but intend to jump to a DC Coupled hybrid home system much as you have. Here in Cali with NEM 3.0 in effect selling power back is hardly plan A but I may end up doing it since in sunny so cal I will likely get monster insulation most of the year--tho I do get June Gloom. One barely informed question is can you get a charge controller that can skip an inverter and.directly charge an EV at 48V? Pollyanna gonna rewatch your video here another number of dozen times. Also I could use a firewood rack but I still am probably go with house roof mounting for the panels. Again, thx for this I'm subscribed and I hope you got comps on all the equipment and I'll definite consider going with the items you have setup--the appl controls are pretty bitchin' as we say here in Cali. GARY
Thanks for your kind feedback! At this time I'm not aware of any inverters that provide a direct DC charge. There are inverters that integrate chargers like my SolarEdge inverter you can see here: th-cam.com/video/U2ilH8yOi7A/w-d-xo.html There are ways to charge indirectly from solar, I will put a out a video showing that in a couple of weeks. I did make a wood rack / solar rack, but it would not pass inspection for a grid tie system. You can see it here: th-cam.com/video/27RRDqZcV3A/w-d-xo.html ; th-cam.com/video/XSxp8pbk7q0/w-d-xo.html If you are doing a grid tie system, it will need inspection and require UL listed equipment. You can find some options on my website here: projectswithdave.com/inverters/ Hope that helps!
Kaiweets is a decent budget meter I purchased years ago and is good enough for the average DIY user. The Fluke is much more expensive but has more features and precision that I need for my testing accuracy.
Wow Dave, you aren't using much electricity (LOL). My PC alone uses ~200 watts, 24/7. According to my Emporia my PC and its monitor (TV) uses 32KWh in one week. The worse part of (good to know & learn) is that because I live in a tiny house (small room), I am also wasting KWs to get rid of the heat generated by the PC (i.e., cool my room). I may have to move my damn PC outside in order to save myself on KWs used to cool the room but it is interesting to see where the KWs are going. My loads use 500-700 watts continously. I have 30KWh of battery storage and thinking to either purchase another 30KWh or build a battery storage myself.
It's interesting when you start tracking things. Computers generate a lot of heat, that's why they put servers under water: www.theverge.com/2020/9/14/21436746/microsoft-project-natick-data-center-server-underwater-cooling-reliability Maybe you can get a water cooled CPU and rout the heat exchanger outside the conditioned space.
I'm confused by the graph at the end of the video. At the left, consumption is larger than solar, and yet battery SOC increases. Similarly, say on Dec 2, solar is greater than consumption, yet SOC decreases. What's going on? Thanks for a really interesting video!
Hi Dave, I don't quite understand what you did on the power distribution box coming from the photovoltaic panels. If I understand correctly, your system has two strings, in fact you have installed 2 circuit breakers. Well, then on a terminal block you paralleled the minuses and pluses and with just 2 cables you went to a switch and then to the input of the solar charge controller. In my opinion, by doing so you have introduced critical issues (interruptions, tightening of cables on terminals, jumpers on terminal blocks...) which decrease the reliability of your system. I think the two DC circuit breakers are enough, add overvoltage discharger to earth and bring the two strings to 2 inputs of the MPPT. Eliminate the disconnect switch which in my opinion is of little use. In this way you can increase the reliability of the system and create true redundancy of the panels... string #1 and string #2 which can work independently of each other. If there's something I don't understand... explain it to me. Thank you
The disconnect switch is redundant, but I included it to make it easy to connect temporary strings for testing purposes. Also some people like the easy access of a close physical disconnect so, I included it for reference.
@ProjectsWithDave That would be an excellent comparison, eg4 to the Victron. I'd be very interested in your thoughts. I'll be going full off grid by August, trying to figure out who's products I want to use. I don't have much load so I don't need to go very big. I just recently found your channel an have subscribed, really like the way you present your information .
Great informative video as usual! Would I need to purchase the Victron MK3-BUS configuration tool if I'm planning to use the Victron Cerbo GX in my setup?
Merci pour cette vidéo je suis en train de monter un multiplus 5kva, quelle section et quelle marque de câble utilisez vous pour la puissance du mppt450/100 ?
Awesome video. Question. Worse case scenario where grid is down, no solar and batteries are depleted to the point the Victron inverters go offline, when grid comes back, will the inverters turn on and start charging batteries?
@@ProjectsWithDave this is why you’re awesome. You’ve tested these critical things. Other say oh ecoflow is the best or those EG4 inverters but neither can recover from total loss of power from what I’ve been able to gather from dozens of videos.
Where do you get a cover for the Victron LYNX Distributor DC Power Distribution System that the wire exit the top, and the Print if the words: Victron LYNX Distributor DC Power Distribution System are the proper way to read? Thanks For a great Video
I have the Lynx Distributor in my components list on my website: projectswithdave.com/diy-off-grid-home-solar-system/ It comes with a sticker that allows you to flip the wording when installed upside down.
An inverter converts battery DC to AC. An inverter charger can convert DC from the battery to AC and convert AC from the source to DC to charge the battery. Low frequency inverters use a transformer and, therefore, can handle induction loads better. Transformer-less inverters do not have a transformer, are typically cheaper because they use electronics instead.
Great setup Dave. Victron makes it so easy to connect but I think their software is a little frustrating. It seems a little Windows 95, functional but not elegant. I'm going down a similar path but have a few more obstacles - biggest one, I'm in a 3 phase house in Australia and I don't want to buy 3 multiplus II's straight away. So I'm putting in an essential loads panel on a single phase (230V AC). It will be all the power circuits and all the light circuits, but not the range.
I agree, the software is a bit clunky. Your idea to use a single phase should work out great for you. I was working with a system the other day that used two units to make 120/240 split phase from two phases of a 3 phase input. The Victron equipment is very flexible.
Noob questions: I plan to have MPPT and PV strong enough to power all the load that i plan to have. Only the excess power goes to the battery. If batteries are empty (early morning) they will draw some power, and there might not be enough for the load. I would like to prirotize the load. In additon, battery charging max current is lower than the MPPT output so it seems i just cant use the combiner box. Is the solution to this to use MPPT with separate load/ battery connections or i need to use hybrid inverter, or something else ?
@@ProjectsWithDave So, what is the voltage drop from the panel area to the inverter area? Mya I know that pls? I am trying to decide if microinverters are a better solution.
Yes, me too. You have no idea. I disassembled the internals, to flip the switch over, but it is configured to only go in one way. I could have made it happen, but I didn't want to show the world what it would take and have someone do it wrong so I just mounted it upside down.
Dave, looking at your portal on 1/13/24 (today) I see see negative amps and watts on the grid connection, specifically L2. Is the system accidentally pushing power back to grid? Also the power direction lines show it pushing to the grid.
It keeps a net draw of 10W between L1 and L2. The result is some times one leg is negative and one is positive at the inverter due to imbalanced loads in the house. At the meter it should still be drawing 10W on balance.
Hi Dave, what are you doing for DC arc fault detection and protection on your array wiring? Are you just not worried about it because your solar is freestanding?
Good question. Some inverters have arc fault detection built in. I have found some nuisance tripping as a result leaving me without power until I realize it has shut itself down. I start with making good connections to avoid that problem in the first place. I don't have a personal position yet on the best management solution. I'm open to suggestions.
@@ProjectsWithDave I am also working through this issue. It’s become code requirement. So in an effort to be code compliant I am searching out different avenues. I did find something by a company called Fonrich.
I see you have that IP6048 in the garage. At least until you did this Victron upgrade, had you been using that IP6048? Curious how it worked (or how it is working still, if you're still using it). I have one I just got up and running that I have been swapping parts under warranty and it seems like it's finally working. Curious of your experience with it!
You can see the install in this video: th-cam.com/video/IZjISqEWglU/w-d-xo.html It has been working with no issues for nearly a year now, but it is noisy and difficult to program.
@@ProjectsWithDave It seems like it's working okay for me. I have had it shut off twice with F32 errors. But I am giving it a shot to see if it stays working. Would love to try 2 in parallel to see if it can start up my AC (my 2 TP6048 units can just fine). Let me know if you ever want to sell or do some trials/testing! I'm in Columbus!
@@ProjectsWithDave I’m more on the side of “it needs to start it no matter what” ha. I have my power tools and what not that will draw too many amps from a single leg (which I’ve now found out my air compressor can’t with this). So it’s back to the TP6048 units in parallel which can. And I got an F32 fault today randomly while I wasn’t home on the ip6048. Then a f03 fault after restart once I got home. I just don’t trust this unit for long-term away usage :( it has great features, but is unreliable.
You should confirm that with your supplier, I haven't researched that configuration. However, logically, you should only have one ground neutral bond in any system so I expect you would only want one relay set.
Dave, I know you started with the Multiplus-II 48/3000/120/32 because you were starting with a partial backup, but would you do the same, ie 2 Multiplus-II 48/3000/120/32 in multi-phase configuration for the whole house( 32A max input each phase ) or get the Multiplus-II 48/5000/240/50 or the Multiplus-II 48/100000/240/100? I've got 2 grid-tied micro-inverter strings on the roof now and looking to zero my grid use and it looks like Victron Multiplus/Multiplus-II will monitor AC solar generation and charge the batteries but we also have 2 EVs and HVAC so was looking to build 2 of the DIY 15 kW battery modules you also showed. Just wondering if dual/split inverters were preferred over one.
When I started this project, I didn't plan to expand it so far. If I was starting from scratch I would use two "Victron 48V Quattro 10kVA 120V Inverter 140A Charger" and just put the whole house on the system instead of emergency loads. That would prepare me to go fully off-grid if I ever wanted to. I much preferer the setup of all-in-one inverters, but most of them don't use transformers and many of my large loads are induction loads. I just have more confidence in the Victron equipment.
@@ProjectsWithDave Makes sense and I had a feeling you 'grew' from the initial configuration seeing how the 3kVA couldn't do 240V/21A continuous. Our 100A home has rarely seen more than a few spikes of 2kWh consumed over 15 min period and we can schedule and tune EV charging to 5-10kWh per night meaning the Victron 5kVA 120V inverter 70A charger setup should work. I do woodworking with small CNCs(2 HP router motors) so hopefully we don't need to pull much of anything off the grid once this system is built. The 5kVA inverters are about 75% more than the 3kVA and the 10kVAs about 50% more than the 5kVA and trying to come in under $10k. Thanks again for your input. I'll be drawing this up and finding a Victron rep to discuss the plausibility of the system.
I get discounts and some free materials from supporters of my channel, like Current Connected, but I have the retail cost breakdown for the single phase install on my website here: projectswithdave.com/battery-backup-for-home-diy/ Just click on the "circuit diagram" tab on the right hand side. You can extrapolate for the additional units.
If the grid goes down the loads will be powered from solar, if the solar is sufficient the loads will be powered from the battery. There is an internal transfer switch that manages the input for the loads.
@@ProjectsWithDave Thanks for your reply. I dived deeper into that particular model and indeed it has ATS inside. Is there a minimal battery capacity to be able to provide energy from solar? I mean, for example, if the battery is small and the solar production is high would MPPT controller understand the load from the critical load and provide exact power needed?
Trying to find name brand MCB breakers (Eaton/Bussman or Schneider) rated for 600VDC has proven a bit difficult. It makes me question the no name breakers getting used in the DC/PV disconnect boxes.
You were smart to use a heavy duty, high surge capacity, long lived, low frequency, transformer based inverter charger instead of a high frequency, transformerless inverter charger that everyone else is hawking on the Internet. The Chinese made high frequency inverters on today's market (and they're ALL Chinese made) are not only short lived and weak when compared to conventional off grid inverters, they can also be dangerous. You'd be lucky to get even two years of service from these inverters, especially when powering high inductance loads like full sized refrigerators, large power tools, portable AC units or large microwave ovens. The reason for this is that all of these lightweight, high frequency inverters lack a very critical component. That critical component is an iron core, copper wound output transformer. Without an output transformer to act as a buffer to absorb electrical surges provided by the “Flywheel Effect” inherent in the physical amount of a transformer’s iron, these surges and damaging reverse voltage spikes must be handled directly by the inverter’s MOSFET transistors, essential shortening their life. You might be able to start and run some high surge loads when these high frequency inverters are new, but every time you fire up one of those inductive loads, you're shortening the life of the MOSFETs in these inverters. Lightweight. high frequency inverters run much hotter than low frequency, transformer-based inverters which makes the low cost, off spec, Chinese made components such as capacitors, diodes, resistors and ICs that are used in the cheap inverters that are used in these inverters, far more prone to early failure. Another major consideration with these lightweight, high frequency, transformerless inverters is safety. All it takes is for the AC output monitoring circuitry to fail and one of the MOSFETs in the inverter's H-Bridge circuit to short to ground, and these inverters can dangerous, high voltage, high amperage DC current straight to your connected AC loads which will not only damage most AC appliances but can also set those AC appliances on fire. Another consideration that is never mentioned by those high frequency inverter hucksters, is that the vast majority of these inverters are non-repairable. After the warranty runs out, you're not going to be able to ship these units back to the manufacturer in China and have them repair them. And at a typical shop rate of $125 per hour here in the US, with no schematic and limited parts availability, it won't make economic sense to even attempt to repair one of these units. Once the FETs have fried and have burned a good portion of the inverter's PCB, (And trust me, sooner rather than later, they will fry.) they basically become a brick.
@kickgas... thanks for this straight forward input, its actually an eye opener! I was looking at the Sunsynk 12kw 3phase hybrid and realised exactly what you said, its not if, but when something pops, and then your whole system needs to be replaced.
What type of refriderator are you using as I looked at your VRM monitor and your AC load seems to be a constant 68W What's on to create that load at 3:36 AM ?
I have the retail cost breakdown for the single phase install on my website here: projectswithdave.com/battery-backup-for-home-diy/ Just click on the "circuit diagram" tab on the right hand side. You can extrapolate for the additional units.
i plan to have 10kW of panels, so i understand i need the 450/200 charger as it can do 10kw of charge? my storage for now will only be 10kWh of batteries, 4x 12V/200ah, batts say 400A max charge but 100A is the recommended, so now im confused if that 200A charger will be too strong?
You should probably charge your battery at 0.5C, which is 5000W. Also you are not going to get 10kW from the panels, so you can “overpanel”-use a smaller charge controller, like 150A, or use two 75A.
Can you combine different Victron inverter models in parallel together? (of course all single phase, or all split phase, or all 3phase - and not mixed)
Did you do the split phase configuration with the neutral ground bond checked on only one inverter? Do they operate independently? What error is it flashing?
@@ProjectsWithDave Sincere Thanks for the reply, much appreciated. I’m watching more of your videos and learning more as I go- I think I likely should be able to get it sorted, will get back to you if I’m still in strife. Thanks again!
Are you still connected to the grid? If so, are you connected through the inverter charge controller? Can you show how your "off grid" system is connected to the grid and what happens when the grid goes down? Does the utility company require your solar to shut off in order to prevent potential backfeeding? I'm off grid and my utility company wouldn't allow me to remain connected unless I was net metering and my solar system also shut down if the grid failed. I was only using grid power for those multiple shady days in order to recharge my batteries.
My main solar system shuts down in a power outage. I have a net metering agreement with my utility for my main solar system you can watch this video on the topic of how mine works: th-cam.com/video/IwUK1dNJ3n8/w-d-xo.html The system in this video is set up to be a UPS. If the power goes out it becomes an island. That's why you have to have one inverter with a relay to create a neutral/ground bond when the power is disconnected.
How much battey do you have for 25kw I had 57.6kw of lead acid batteries was going well until Igot 2 bad 6V batteries putting out each 4v I am off grid and upgraded t0 a BYD LVS 4 with 12 Kw I have 3.4kw of panels is it big enough for 3 days overcast ? \
I am not trying to be a smart ass. Serious question. What happens if an EMP or solar blast occurs? How and what components do or can you use to protect your system. Thank you.
This is a complex subject and I can't really run a test to confirm the results. I did have a lightning strike very close to my array. I did I video on some countermeasures I made you can watch here: th-cam.com/video/z02sSUsfDXg/w-d-xo.html I mention 3 surge protector solutions in the video. The DIN rail version is probably limited in it's effectiveness. The EMP Shield version is the most expensive, but I can't prove it works any better than the MidNite Solar one. I link to all of the options in the description of that video and on my website for that project here: projectswithdave.com/surge-protection/
@Michael - If you are off-grid ... not much will happen from a Solar Flare. If you want to protect from a nearby EMP then you need to protect *every* electrical device and *every* wire in your home = not impossible. The Power Grid and Satellites will be damaged more vs off-grid.
@@MrSummitville I pay about $425 on average per month. Billing cycle is 2 months at around $850. Any solar loan or PPA program is about 200-250. So I'll be saving right away
@@d_k_C_A Yes, That is a huge electric bill. Yikes. I have an all electric home. Geothermal Heating & Cooling 2500 sqft ranch.. $200 per month average monthly bill. 2,500 Watt Solar Grid-Tie.
@@MrSummitville that's awesome good sir. I don't know if you live in southern California but here in the communist state of California the government steals from us and gives to the poor....
You can get the circuit diagrams and cost for the single inverter version on the project page here: projectswithdave.com/battery-backup-for-home-diy/ That will give you a good starting point for your estimate.
Really, 15kWh in a WEEK, for your essentials . What's the rest of the Total ? Off-grid is a surprise for a lot of cases where people have spent 100K+$ and have to conserve like a Monk in Winter.
It is not practical to build a solar system large enough to survive December and January without supplemental power from a generator for off grid systems.
Maybe you can help me I'm looking for someone that can help me install my small solar power system that I have on my box van I need someone in Washington that's familiar with a viltron energy solar charge controller and distributors going into a 48 volt inverter it has 5 solar panels on the roof each are 370 watt for as total of 1850 watts all together. So do you know anyone in Washington state that can accurately hookup this system???
That is a very efficient Fridge, Do you switch it off a night You're not completely off grid are you ,the Grid was charging your batteries, how many AH have you got ,Cheers
Because of the time I have spent showing my projects on TH-cam, I have been able to get discounts on subsequent projects. The more you "like" and "share" the videos the more opportunity I will have to continue expanding and publishing more projects. Thanks!
One thing just to know I recommend fire sizes not providing them or not following what is said in the TH-cam video you should calculate them because your situation is likely to be different even if it is just the length or temperature of the room they have way more sizes of solar charge controllers dangerous to they have really really cheap and affordable ones as well for lower current
If you have suggestions or corrections, comment below and I will fix them in the linked documents.
Click here for the circuit diagrams, settings and parts list on my website: projectswithdave.com/diy-off-grid-home-solar-system/
Click here to use my affiliate link to Current Connected: www.currentconnected.com/?ref=pwd
Click here to see the real time monitor: projectswithdave.com/daves-off-grid-monitor/
Budget 48V Battery from Signature solar ($50 off $500 site wide Coupon Code December only "EVERYDAYDAVE" ): signaturesolar.com/eg4-lifepower4-lithium-battery-48v-100ah/?ref=SALE
Related build videos:
Victron Basic Home Backup:th-cam.com/video/BzMAW8kW0CU/w-d-xo.html
Victron Split Phase Home Backup:th-cam.com/video/ipLRNglTdhg/w-d-xo.html
Did you consider using a redox flow battery [e.g., Zinc-bromine (ZnBr) flow batteries] opposed to Lithium-Ion?
I know ZnBr efficiency is only 75% opposed to 99% of Lithium, but the levelized cost of energy for ZnBr is much much lower.
I don't have any experience with ZnBr batteries.
I was under the impression that lithoum batteries do not do the "equalisation thing"
- yet your new charger has this set
What sort of lithium battery needs equalisation?
Lithium batteries need to be balanced. Usually they are top balanced. By holding the voltage at a constant level for a long period of time the internal BMS can balance each cell to the same voltage.
You don’t need the Victron Smart Shunt with your setup, get that thing out of there ;)
December is pretty rough so far. Our 8.9kW (bifacial system, so can produce a bit more than that on great days) made a little over 1000kWh in November, this month .. not great at all. But I am so glad we went with our system, our bills have been great.
Are you sure about your 1000KWh production in November? That is good since; How many kWh is normal in a month? The EIA aggregates data for the entire U.S. In 2021, the average annual electricity consumption for a U.S. home was 10,632 kilowatt-hours (kWh). Or about 886 kWh per month. I use 400KWh per month which includes charging my Tesla.
December, January and February are usually very low production months for me. Sometimes we only get a couple of days of sunlight here.
Get more panels.
Very nice detailed video. I liked the tip on bending polycarbonate for brackets. That said your system is much too complicated for me. I'm sure it's great for many others. My goal is to keep it simple and have reliable non internet connected backup power for my essentials if the grid goes down. Thumbs up to you.
Victron equipment does *not* need the Internet to function.
Nice one, our 15kva Multiplus II system has never missed a beat. Victron has made the install so easy for us! 😁
Thanks for posting your actual experience!
You are a real diy expert... listening from Papua New Guinea... am very interested as your set makes it very simple.
need to learn more from your future presentations.
This video is a great example to why you’re appearing electrical distribution boards otherwise they are as how you make these combine boxes as you wish recently due to a whole electrical system. I thought this is worth mentioning because the customisability of making your own one is so good.
My first time watching and I'm doing Mobile RV applications but I'm very impressed. Thank you for helping me and showing us your beautiful work and attention to detail. You are an artist.
Thanks for sharing Dave! While I know Victron makes nice stuff, this all made me really appreciate the simplicity of my SolArk 15K! 😂
Yes, it is amazing what SolArk has packed into that package when you step back and look at all the Victron components it takes to do the same thing.
I like the simplicity of the SolArk, but it would be my luck one component in the SolArk breaks and I'll have to replace the whole dang thing. While the Victron setup is more complex, I hope replacing individual components is less painful on the wallet.
@@mfinite689 That was a concern of mine too. Checking the forums, there wasn't a lot of history of SA failures. Another thing I love about SA is they stock all parts in the US AND have amazing 24/7 support. Talking to folks that have had issues, SA will trouble shoot, get parts out right away, and walk you through DIY repair if possible. If it can't be fixed in the field, it's repaired in the states (with excellent customer based feedback). I can bypass the AIO inverter easily and I do have grid BU if I ever needed it. But one of the biggest reasons I went with this inverter was the 200A bypass and entire house BU. Super easy to wire and have the entire house powered with grid failure.
But honestly, even if the inverter only lasts 10-15 years, the tech will be so much improved at that point that I'd likely end up replacing it rather than repairing anyway.
With that said, I have considered picking up one of those SS/Lux Power 6000XP AIO off grid inverters for $1300 to have just in case SHTF. If nothing else, one of those would meet 99% of my needs in a real pinch.
@@mfinite689Yea, usually, what you pay for now, money, complex equipment, modular and more, save you many times in money, time and ease in knowing that everything won’t break at one time. Hope fully. But I would hope that a all in one system would have modular parts inside so you could easy swap out something that break.
This is an excellent well put together solar power system. The Victron family of solar equipment is awesome. I do wish it was more affordable. I am starting out with a grid tie system using 2Kw of solar and an 11kw battery bank. Currently the only Victron components I am using is a Victron 15/45 amp charge controller. By using the grid tie inverter I can cut a portion of my electric bill while I continue to add more solar panels and increase the size of my battery bank. Next will be to purchase two of the Victron inverters like you did.
Victron may be more expensive to start, but in my experience it is worth it in the long run. My Victron system performs the best of all the systems I've tried.
@@ProjectsWithDave Since my last comment I have purchased 24kw worth of batteries. I am about to buy 16 540 watt bifacial panels with two EG4 5k solar charge controllers they can handle 500V OC I will have two strings in series at 400V each string. It was less than half the cost of the large Victron charge controllers and I can have more panels in series. But I will use two 5k Victron Quatro inverters. I would have bought the 200 amp Victron charge controller but I spent $800 vs $2000. I did add another Victron current sensor So the Victron app will be able to "see" the power coming from the two EG4 Charge controllers.
Hey Dave -- Thanks again for all the great content!
At one point in this video you talked about the energy consumption implications of your garage lights being left on all night -- I don't know if you've ever gone down the rabbit hole of Home Assistant, but it is a great solution for those sorts of automations. I've got a zigbee motion sensor in my garage, and the (300 W) lights are controlled by a lutron caseta smart switch. If home assistant detects that the [lights are on] and [Motion Detector Hasn't Detected Motion for an hour], it automatically shuts the lights back off.
Thanks! Yes, I considered it when I built my house. However I did a cost analysis at the time and determined it was cheaper to forget and leave the lights on occasionally. Now, however, I am reconsidering that because it isn't just a mater of cost, but of depleting total available power.
Very thorough information here, glad it's available for me to watch so I can't consider more info for my own build. Thanks for sharing
Glad it was helpful!
Great video. Tip: Do not wear metal rings on your fingers with those open connections.
You make amazing videos Dave! I'm super proud of you!
Thanks!
Excelsior Dave! Thank you for another lesson in solar done right.
Thanks for the encouragement!
Thank, I enjoy our videos.
Great video as I'm looking to build up a PV system after testing running my office/homelab from my Aptos panels + Bluetti AC200MAX+B230.. But I'm floored at your weekly consumption. I have the same Emporia and just checked, we're averaging 250-300kWh/week for a _very_ efficient 2k/sq home, solar LED lights inside everywhere, everything that can be off, is off, and we're still 20x your weekly consumption. Wow!
This system is just supporting emergency systems. Fridge, well, some lights, TV, Internet, security.
Another awesome video. Thanks for explaining the ESS option.
Glad it was helpful!
Just what I wanted right now.... love this
Great! I'm glad it was helpful.
That is one clean setup. Been trying to convince my dad, whom I've been working on our future studio house, to convert our 24v inverter/charge/battery system to 48v, since the panels we are using are 10 480w 48v Canadiansolar polycrystalline panels. Have to run the panels in two strings of 5 panels each, generating around 240ish volts through a combiner box. On average out here where I am at, we are generating almost 12kw on average per day, and the Midnite classic 250/100 we got from a friend, is screaming half the day. I feel if I were able to move to a Victron 450 48v MPPT, I'd be able to increase the efficiency of the system as a whole. I'd definitely be nice to run straight 400v from the panels/combiner box to our system and never have to worry about one thing or the other, even though at the moment, it's pretty rock solid with stupid fast charging time on our current 8.4kw battery bank, which is soon going to be increased to 16.8kw.
48V of course is much better, but if you already have a system in operation it would make sense to wait until an upgrade point to switch. Then maybe you can sell the old equipment to mitigate any loss.
This video was very informative. Thanks for taking your time to make such a detailed and quality video. Merry Christmas 🎄
Thanks! Have a Merry Christmas.
Wow Dave you geeked me out lucky for you that you are part engineer lol.
i could swear to god this dude is powering the whole usa with solar 😂
No, not even his whole house.
Lightning protection should be connected 'in-the-lines'. Now you connected it in a kind of T configuration. This allows voltage across the short wires to the protection unit to add to the voltage on the converter you want to protect. High frequency characteristics of currents due to lightning makes even small induction levels dangerous.
Ekk Victron…$$$ multiple components…yay Growatt!!
Thanks for this presentation. The only comment for making it better would be to slow down a little when going through the screens. I personally, take screen shots and build docs for building procedure. Otherwise, great presentation.
Thanks for the input. I'm usually trying to make the video as short as possible and still fit in all the pertinent information. It can be difficult to balance.
Another great video. Keep em coming.
Never say boom when working on electrical 😊
This video is really informative and inspiring!
thx 4 updating us! 😊awesome great 👏 👍
dave you on 10+ with this solar stuff i came here from ways of the ecoflow delta 2 max lol
It's fun 😀
I have a small system with 500 watts of solar and a 2000 watt ROARBATT inverter on a 100 ah battery. My charge controller is POWMR . I wish I could afford a setup like yours. Happy New Year 🎆
Thanks! Happy New Year!
GREAT PROJECT DAVE!
WE ALWAYS ENJOY YOUR PROJECTS & DETAILS!
HAVE YOU CONSIDERED USING A LARGE PVC WIRE WAY FOR YOUR ESS CABLE MANAGEMENT, BUSSBARS, ETC…
THANKS AGAIN FOR SHARING YOUR PROJECTS, KEEPING US INFORMED & EMPOWERED!
Thanks for the encouragement! It takes a lot of time to make these videos. I've considered using a wiring trough. I may do that at some point to clean things up.
Why are you shouting?
Great channel! I too love Victron equipment, and mine is totally off grid, but I don’t use any automatic connection to the grid. I would have to flip some breakers on my main panel using an interconnect switch.
I hope this doesn’t wear down my panel breakers, as in the winter I’m flipping them a lot!
That's the way I had it set up for the first week and decided the ESS was the way to go. I don't want to be flipping breakers all the time.
@@ProjectsWithDave
I just don’t have the confidence to do that, not to mention that it’s hard to get anybody around here who knows about solar. The only ones I can find are people who will install it from the ground up! I was surprised that if they don’t build it, they’re not interested?
I did not hear if your system will run your heat pump system ? Great how to video Dave , thank you .
It should with a soft start, but I haven't had a chance to try it yet.
Every now and again I will check your usage on your system from your website. I am only 2 hrs north of you, so it gives me a good idea of what mine could produce once I get pull the trigger. Question; On a few times (2/24/24 15:00-18:00) and a few other times, it appeared to be back feeding to the grid around 1000w. I know you have it setup to always draw around 10w from the grid so it doesn't not back feed, but it appears its been doing it and a decent amount too.
Yes, I've made a change to allow me to power some additional loads in my house during peak production times by back-feeding through the "grid" connection to a separate AC combiner. As I come into the more productive months, there is way more power available than I can store in the batteries and use with my emergency systems. This keeps me from wasting available power.
@tsWithDave Thanks. makes sense! Why not do a "pv dump" on ac out 2? Move a few loads over to another load center and wire up AC out 2, create a profile that when batteries are full and excess PV, you "trigger" ac out 2 to run on PV. Then run AC 2 for a little and allow it to draw down the battery too (just a few percent) so you can have enough battery storage and yet a buffer on AC2 so it doesn't cycle from PV to Grid frequently? That's my plan on day. Put my water heater or dryer or oven on AC2. I would like to do my pool HP, but its to big of a draw and AC2 only capable of 45 amp (i think).
If you can add a wireway and show us how to do it, would be a helpful videos for us.
I was considering a wireway for my next install. I'll keep that in mind.
Congrats on moving quite a bit off-grid. Thanks for the video Dave!
I have a couple questions for you.
- 30:39 Since you have AC In connected to your inverters (and Victron uses a common neutral) shouldn't you have both Ground Relays turned off as it should use the G/N bond from your AC In side?
- 33:22 I believe you have an Emporia set up. Have you been able to use that to ensure that 10W is enough for your grid setpoint to prevent any possible backfeeding? 34:58 I see a lot of negative numbers in the Grid box. Correct me if I'm wrong, but aren't negative numbers power flowing back towards the grid?
- Did you add any external CTs to help ensure you don't feed any power back to the grid?
If the grid is connected the system uses the house Ground/Neutral bond. If the grid looses power the system isolates itself and a relay connects the Ground/Neutral bond in one of the inverts since all the circuits are now on an island.
The ESS is set up to have a net 10W load on the grid. If one leg is pulling 20W the other will push -10W to make the net 10W.
I don't have external CTs hooked up at the moment all the sensing is internal to the Multiplus.
@@ProjectsWithDave My mistake regarding the G/N bond. I forgot how you had your MTS wired. Gotta love how every installation can be unique!
I look forward to an update on how ESS works for you down the road. It's something I'm gonna be doing some testing with at some point as well. I went a different route to manage the AC IN based on the SOC.
Thanks again for sharing all the detailed videos!
Right, every install is different, even with the same basic components. That's why I try and show as much detail as possible, but sometimes the videos just get too long. The ESS has been working great so far, like everything Victron, it just seems to work.
@@ProjectsWithDave thanks! Yeah my Victron system has been working so much better than my EG4 6500 system.
Dave,
Incredible job! So generous to have shared your journey. Very intense but you're very competent in every task, and the video presenting and editing as well. A+ Dr. Dave! I'm just getting started but intend to jump to a DC Coupled hybrid home system much as you have. Here in Cali with NEM 3.0 in effect selling power back is hardly plan A but I may end up doing it since in sunny so cal I will likely get monster insulation most of the year--tho I do get June Gloom. One barely informed question is can you get a charge controller that can skip an inverter and.directly charge an EV at 48V? Pollyanna gonna rewatch your video here another number of dozen times. Also I could use a firewood rack but I still am probably go with house roof mounting for the panels.
Again, thx for this I'm subscribed and I hope you got comps on all the equipment and I'll definite consider going with the items you have setup--the appl controls are pretty bitchin' as we say here in Cali.
GARY
Thanks for your kind feedback! At this time I'm not aware of any inverters that provide a direct DC charge. There are inverters that integrate chargers like my SolarEdge inverter you can see here: th-cam.com/video/U2ilH8yOi7A/w-d-xo.html
There are ways to charge indirectly from solar, I will put a out a video showing that in a couple of weeks.
I did make a wood rack / solar rack, but it would not pass inspection for a grid tie system. You can see it here: th-cam.com/video/27RRDqZcV3A/w-d-xo.html ; th-cam.com/video/XSxp8pbk7q0/w-d-xo.html
If you are doing a grid tie system, it will need inspection and require UL listed equipment. You can find some options on my website here: projectswithdave.com/inverters/
Hope that helps!
Why do you have both a Kaiweets and a Fluke clamp? Which do you prefer?
Kaiweets is a decent budget meter I purchased years ago and is good enough for the average DIY user. The Fluke is much more expensive but has more features and precision that I need for my testing accuracy.
Thanks for the video! Are you grounding your chassis rails to a ground rod?
Yes, the chassis is connected to household ground rod.
Wow Dave, you aren't using much electricity (LOL). My PC alone uses ~200 watts, 24/7. According to my Emporia my PC and its monitor (TV) uses 32KWh in one week. The worse part of (good to know & learn) is that because I live in a tiny house (small room), I am also wasting KWs to get rid of the heat generated by the PC (i.e., cool my room). I may have to move my damn PC outside in order to save myself on KWs used to cool the room but it is interesting to see where the KWs are going. My loads use 500-700 watts continously. I have 30KWh of battery storage and thinking to either purchase another 30KWh or build a battery storage myself.
It's interesting when you start tracking things. Computers generate a lot of heat, that's why they put servers under water: www.theverge.com/2020/9/14/21436746/microsoft-project-natick-data-center-server-underwater-cooling-reliability
Maybe you can get a water cooled CPU and rout the heat exchanger outside the conditioned space.
HOWdy P-w-E-D-D, ...
Thanks
COOP
the WiSeNhEiMeR from Richmond, INDIANA
...
Great video, thank you.
It’s looking like you are almost self ready to stop paying for grid. 😊
I think it will be a while before I can achieve that, but it's becoming more plausible.
I'm confused by the graph at the end of the video. At the left, consumption is larger than solar, and yet battery SOC increases. Similarly, say on Dec 2, solar is greater than consumption, yet SOC decreases. What's going on?
Thanks for a really interesting video!
If consumption was greater than production but the SOC increased it was likely getting some input from the grid.
Hi Dave, I don't quite understand what you did on the power distribution box coming from the photovoltaic panels. If I understand correctly, your system has two strings, in fact you have installed 2 circuit breakers. Well, then on a terminal block you paralleled the minuses and pluses and with just 2 cables you went to a switch and then to the input of the solar charge controller. In my opinion, by doing so you have introduced critical issues (interruptions, tightening of cables on terminals, jumpers on terminal blocks...) which decrease the reliability of your system. I think the two DC circuit breakers are enough, add overvoltage discharger to earth and bring the two strings to 2 inputs of the MPPT. Eliminate the disconnect switch which in my opinion is of little use. In this way you can increase the reliability of the system and create true redundancy of the panels... string #1 and string #2 which can work independently of each other. If there's something I don't understand... explain it to me. Thank you
The disconnect switch is redundant, but I included it to make it easy to connect temporary strings for testing purposes. Also some people like the easy access of a close physical disconnect so, I included it for reference.
Nice video (as usual). If you had to do it over, would you continue down the modular route or go for an AIO, specifically a Sol-Ark 15K? Keep it up
Good question. Sol-Ark is a bit pricy, I'm considering getting an EG4 18K and trying it out to compare.
@ProjectsWithDave
That would be an excellent comparison, eg4 to the Victron. I'd be very interested in your thoughts. I'll be going full off grid by August, trying to figure out who's products I want to use. I don't have much load so I don't need to go very big. I just recently found your channel an have subscribed, really like the way you present your information .
Great informative video as usual!
Would I need to purchase the Victron MK3-BUS configuration tool if I'm planning to use the Victron Cerbo GX in my setup?
If you have the CerboGX, you can configure the equipment over the internet portal.
Merci pour cette vidéo je suis en train de monter un multiplus 5kva, quelle section et quelle marque de câble utilisez vous pour la puissance du mppt450/100 ?
Victron is expensive, but it is a really nice system. I am swapping over from Schneider Electric to Victron. Too many issues with the Schneider system
My Victron equipment has never failed. What issues have you had with Schneider?
Awesome video. Question. Worse case scenario where grid is down, no solar and batteries are depleted to the point the Victron inverters go offline, when grid comes back, will the inverters turn on and start charging batteries?
Thanks! Yes, they will come back on with grid or solar input and start charging the batteries and suppling the loads.
@@ProjectsWithDave this is why you’re awesome. You’ve tested these critical things. Other say oh ecoflow is the best or those EG4 inverters but neither can recover from total loss of power from what I’ve been able to gather from dozens of videos.
wow dave you are a solar panel now lol
Does the smart shunt lose historical data when removed from power?
In the latest firmware, you can opt to have it keep the state of charge it had when it lost power. That is a very nice feature.
Where do you get a cover for the Victron LYNX Distributor DC Power Distribution System that the wire exit the top, and the Print if the words: Victron LYNX Distributor DC Power Distribution System are the proper way to read?
Thanks
For a great Video
I have the Lynx Distributor in my components list on my website: projectswithdave.com/diy-off-grid-home-solar-system/
It comes with a sticker that allows you to flip the wording when installed upside down.
Whats the difference between a normal inverter vs inverter charger? Also difference between low frequency inverter vs high frequency?
An inverter converts battery DC to AC.
An inverter charger can convert DC from the battery to AC and convert AC from the source to DC to charge the battery.
Low frequency inverters use a transformer and, therefore, can handle induction loads better.
Transformer-less inverters do not have a transformer, are typically cheaper because they use electronics instead.
@ProjectsWithDave thanks for taking the time to answer really appreciate it
Great setup Dave. Victron makes it so easy to connect but I think their software is a little frustrating. It seems a little Windows 95, functional but not elegant. I'm going down a similar path but have a few more obstacles - biggest one, I'm in a 3 phase house in Australia and I don't want to buy 3 multiplus II's straight away. So I'm putting in an essential loads panel on a single phase (230V AC). It will be all the power circuits and all the light circuits, but not the range.
I agree, the software is a bit clunky. Your idea to use a single phase should work out great for you. I was working with a system the other day that used two units to make 120/240 split phase from two phases of a 3 phase input. The Victron equipment is very flexible.
Love this
Have you only got one charge controller going ?
For the Victron system only one at this time.
Noob questions:
I plan to have MPPT and PV strong enough to power all the load that i plan to have. Only the excess power goes to the battery.
If batteries are empty (early morning) they will draw some power, and there might not be enough for the load. I would like to prirotize the load. In additon, battery charging max current is lower than the MPPT output so it seems i just cant use the combiner box.
Is the solution to this to use MPPT with separate load/ battery connections or i need to use hybrid inverter, or something else ?
Do I still need the Victron smart shunt if using SOK LiFePo batteries with battery monitors?
No, the Victron system can use the built in battery monitoring.
How long is your wire run from the solar panel to the charge controller? DC long runs has a big voltage drop where you would lose power from.
100'
@@ProjectsWithDave So, what is the voltage drop from the panel area to the inverter area? Mya I know that pls? I am trying to decide if microinverters are a better solution.
that upsidedown pv disconnector would drive me crazy🙃
Yes, me too. You have no idea. I disassembled the internals, to flip the switch over, but it is configured to only go in one way. I could have made it happen, but I didn't want to show the world what it would take and have someone do it wrong so I just mounted it upside down.
Dave, looking at your portal on 1/13/24 (today) I see see negative amps and watts on the grid connection, specifically L2. Is the system accidentally pushing power back to grid? Also the power direction lines show it pushing to the grid.
It keeps a net draw of 10W between L1 and L2. The result is some times one leg is negative and one is positive at the inverter due to imbalanced loads in the house. At the meter it should still be drawing 10W on balance.
Hi Dave, what are you doing for DC arc fault detection and protection on your array wiring? Are you just not worried about it because your solar is freestanding?
Good question. Some inverters have arc fault detection built in. I have found some nuisance tripping as a result leaving me without power until I realize it has shut itself down. I start with making good connections to avoid that problem in the first place. I don't have a personal position yet on the best management solution. I'm open to suggestions.
@@ProjectsWithDave I am also working through this issue. It’s become code requirement. So in an effort to be code compliant I am searching out different avenues. I did find something by a company called Fonrich.
I see you have that IP6048 in the garage. At least until you did this Victron upgrade, had you been using that IP6048? Curious how it worked (or how it is working still, if you're still using it). I have one I just got up and running that I have been swapping parts under warranty and it seems like it's finally working. Curious of your experience with it!
You can see the install in this video: th-cam.com/video/IZjISqEWglU/w-d-xo.html
It has been working with no issues for nearly a year now, but it is noisy and difficult to program.
@@ProjectsWithDave It seems like it's working okay for me. I have had it shut off twice with F32 errors. But I am giving it a shot to see if it stays working. Would love to try 2 in parallel to see if it can start up my AC (my 2 TP6048 units can just fine). Let me know if you ever want to sell or do some trials/testing! I'm in Columbus!
You should be able to start your AC if you add a soft start device like this one: active-controlsllc.com/softstart-products
@@ProjectsWithDave I’m more on the side of “it needs to start it no matter what” ha. I have my power tools and what not that will draw too many amps from a single leg (which I’ve now found out my air compressor can’t with this). So it’s back to the TP6048 units in parallel which can. And I got an F32 fault today randomly while I wasn’t home on the ip6048. Then a f03 fault after restart once I got home. I just don’t trust this unit for long-term away usage :( it has great features, but is unreliable.
When connecting two multi's in parallel, do i still need only one ground relay box checked?
You should confirm that with your supplier, I haven't researched that configuration. However, logically, you should only have one ground neutral bond in any system so I expect you would only want one relay set.
Dave, I know you started with the Multiplus-II 48/3000/120/32 because you were starting with a partial backup, but would you do the same, ie 2 Multiplus-II 48/3000/120/32 in multi-phase configuration for the whole house( 32A max input each phase ) or get the Multiplus-II 48/5000/240/50 or the Multiplus-II 48/100000/240/100? I've got 2 grid-tied micro-inverter strings on the roof now and looking to zero my grid use and it looks like Victron Multiplus/Multiplus-II will monitor AC solar generation and charge the batteries but we also have 2 EVs and HVAC so was looking to build 2 of the DIY 15 kW battery modules you also showed. Just wondering if dual/split inverters were preferred over one.
When I started this project, I didn't plan to expand it so far. If I was starting from scratch I would use two "Victron 48V Quattro 10kVA 120V Inverter 140A Charger" and just put the whole house on the system instead of emergency loads. That would prepare me to go fully off-grid if I ever wanted to. I much preferer the setup of all-in-one inverters, but most of them don't use transformers and many of my large loads are induction loads. I just have more confidence in the Victron equipment.
@@ProjectsWithDave Makes sense and I had a feeling you 'grew' from the initial configuration seeing how the 3kVA couldn't do 240V/21A continuous. Our 100A home has rarely seen more than a few spikes of 2kWh consumed over 15 min period and we can schedule and tune EV charging to 5-10kWh per night meaning the Victron 5kVA 120V inverter 70A charger setup should work. I do woodworking with small CNCs(2 HP router motors) so hopefully we don't need to pull much of anything off the grid once this system is built. The 5kVA inverters are about 75% more than the 3kVA and the 10kVAs about 50% more than the 5kVA and trying to come in under $10k. Thanks again for your input. I'll be drawing this up and finding a Victron rep to discuss the plausibility of the system.
Do you pay MSRP for this gear? How much did it cost you?
I get discounts and some free materials from supporters of my channel, like Current Connected, but I have the retail cost breakdown for the single phase install on my website here: projectswithdave.com/battery-backup-for-home-diy/
Just click on the "circuit diagram" tab on the right hand side. You can extrapolate for the additional units.
Does this setup allows to power noncritical load from solar (with grid connected)? How the on | off grid switching is handled?
If the grid goes down the loads will be powered from solar, if the solar is sufficient the loads will be powered from the battery. There is an internal transfer switch that manages the input for the loads.
@@ProjectsWithDave Thanks for your reply. I dived deeper into that particular model and indeed it has ATS inside. Is there a minimal battery capacity to be able to provide energy from solar? I mean, for example, if the battery is small and the solar production is high would MPPT controller understand the load from the critical load and provide exact power needed?
Trying to find name brand MCB breakers (Eaton/Bussman or Schneider) rated for 600VDC has proven a bit difficult. It makes me question the no name breakers getting used in the DC/PV disconnect boxes.
Yes, I've run into the same thing. I'm not sure why.
In the event of a true grid failure or communications attack how will your app work without phone service?
The App works with Bluetooth and you Can Open the VRM via a local IP Adress
You were smart to use a heavy duty, high surge capacity, long lived, low frequency, transformer based inverter charger instead of a high frequency, transformerless inverter charger that everyone else is hawking on the Internet. The Chinese made high frequency inverters on today's market (and they're ALL Chinese made) are not only short lived and weak when compared to conventional off grid inverters, they can also be dangerous. You'd be lucky to get even two years of service from these inverters, especially when powering high inductance loads like full sized refrigerators, large power tools, portable AC units or large microwave ovens.
The reason for this is that all of these lightweight, high frequency inverters lack a very critical component. That critical component is an iron core, copper wound output transformer. Without an output transformer to act as a buffer to absorb electrical surges provided by the “Flywheel Effect” inherent in the physical amount of a transformer’s iron, these surges and damaging reverse voltage spikes must be handled directly by the inverter’s MOSFET transistors, essential shortening their life.
You might be able to start and run some high surge loads when these high frequency inverters are new, but every time you fire up one of those inductive loads, you're shortening the life of the MOSFETs in these inverters.
Lightweight. high frequency inverters run much hotter than low frequency, transformer-based inverters which makes the low cost, off spec, Chinese made components such as capacitors, diodes, resistors and ICs that are used in the cheap inverters that are used in these inverters, far more prone to early failure.
Another major consideration with these lightweight, high frequency, transformerless inverters is safety. All it takes is for the AC output monitoring circuitry to fail and one of the MOSFETs in the inverter's H-Bridge circuit to short to ground, and these inverters can dangerous, high voltage, high amperage DC current straight to your connected AC loads which will not only damage most AC appliances but can also set those AC appliances on fire.
Another consideration that is never mentioned by those high frequency inverter hucksters, is that the vast majority of these inverters are non-repairable. After the warranty runs out, you're not going to be able to ship these units back to the manufacturer in China and have them repair them. And at a typical shop rate of $125 per hour here in the US, with no schematic and limited parts availability, it won't make economic sense to even attempt to repair one of these units. Once the FETs have fried and have burned a good portion of the inverter's PCB, (And trust me, sooner rather than later, they will fry.) they basically become a brick.
Thanks for giving your extensive feedback on the topic.
@kickgas... thanks for this straight forward input, its actually an eye opener! I was looking at the Sunsynk 12kw 3phase hybrid and realised exactly what you said, its not if, but when something pops, and then your whole system needs to be replaced.
@kickgas - Victron now makes High Frequency ( no heavy iron transformer ) inverters.
@@MrSummitville Yes, but I will never buy one.
@@MrSummitville Yes, I'm aware but I would never buy one.
What type of refriderator are you using as I looked at your VRM monitor and your AC load seems to be a constant 68W What's on to create that load at 3:36 AM ?
Modem, security system, etc.
How much does all this setup cost?
I have the retail cost breakdown for the single phase install on my website here: projectswithdave.com/battery-backup-for-home-diy/
Just click on the "circuit diagram" tab on the right hand side. You can extrapolate for the additional units.
i plan to have 10kW of panels, so i understand i need the 450/200 charger as it can do 10kw of charge? my storage for now will only be 10kWh of batteries, 4x 12V/200ah, batts say 400A max charge but 100A is the recommended, so now im confused if that 200A charger will be too strong?
You should probably charge your battery at 0.5C, which is 5000W. Also you are not going to get 10kW from the panels, so you can “overpanel”-use a smaller charge controller, like 150A, or use two 75A.
Can you combine different Victron inverter models in parallel together?
(of course all single phase, or all split phase, or all 3phase - and not mixed)
My understanding is they all have to be the same model and software level.
Check out Andy off grid garage . He uses different victron inverters and several charge controllers
He has different Victron inverters linked in split phase or 3 phase configuration?
@@ProjectsWithDave he has a single phase set up but he is using the power assist from one inverter I to the next.
Thanks.
As soon as I try to connect my inverters as you did (VE bus ports), both inverters turn off and flash errors. I have no idea why. Any clues?
Did you do the split phase configuration with the neutral ground bond checked on only one inverter? Do they operate independently? What error is it flashing?
@@ProjectsWithDave Sincere Thanks for the reply, much appreciated.
I’m watching more of your videos and learning more as I go- I think I likely should be able to get it sorted, will get back to you if I’m still in strife. Thanks again!
Are you still connected to the grid? If so, are you connected through the inverter charge controller? Can you show how your "off grid" system is connected to the grid and what happens when the grid goes down? Does the utility company require your solar to shut off in order to prevent potential backfeeding? I'm off grid and my utility company wouldn't allow me to remain connected unless I was net metering and my solar system also shut down if the grid failed. I was only using grid power for those multiple shady days in order to recharge my batteries.
My main solar system shuts down in a power outage. I have a net metering agreement with my utility for my main solar system you can watch this video on the topic of how mine works: th-cam.com/video/IwUK1dNJ3n8/w-d-xo.html
The system in this video is set up to be a UPS. If the power goes out it becomes an island. That's why you have to have one inverter with a relay to create a neutral/ground bond when the power is disconnected.
I don’t really understand how it keeps power off of the grid/how it keeps linemen from getting killed if there’s a power outage. Is there a switch?
If grid power fails, it completely disconnects from the grid and creates its own independent island.
@grichy - A relay *disconnects* the wires going to the AC Grid.
No need for the shunt with the Cerbo. More accurate and less connections ;)
How much battey do you have for 25kw I had 57.6kw of lead acid batteries was going well until Igot 2 bad 6V batteries putting out each 4v I am off grid and upgraded t0 a BYD LVS 4 with 12 Kw I have 3.4kw of panels is it big enough for 3 days overcast ?
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There are way too many factors to consider to be able to determine battery size. I need to work on a video for that...
how much for all of that?
You can scale up the cost for the single inverter system from the cost sheet on my website here: projectswithdave.com/battery-backup-for-home-diy/
I am not trying to be a smart ass. Serious question. What happens if an EMP or solar blast occurs? How and what components do or can you use to protect your system. Thank you.
This is a complex subject and I can't really run a test to confirm the results. I did have a lightning strike very close to my array. I did I video on some countermeasures I made you can watch here: th-cam.com/video/z02sSUsfDXg/w-d-xo.html
I mention 3 surge protector solutions in the video. The DIN rail version is probably limited in it's effectiveness. The EMP Shield version is the most expensive, but I can't prove it works any better than the MidNite Solar one. I link to all of the options in the description of that video and on my website for that project here: projectswithdave.com/surge-protection/
@Michael - If you are off-grid ... not much will happen from a Solar Flare. If you want to protect from a nearby EMP then you need to protect *every* electrical device and *every* wire in your home = not impossible. The Power Grid and Satellites will be damaged more vs off-grid.
Only VE.Can needs terminators, put one on the Cerbo GX and the other one in the Solar Charge controller. The BMS.Can does not need terminators.
I wish I could do a total solar install myself being very handy here in California. I'm desperate for saving money
*Save* money? Your electric bill needs to be very high, to "save" any money. It will take many years, before you break-even.
@@MrSummitville I pay about $425 on average per month. Billing cycle is 2 months at around $850. Any solar loan or PPA program is about 200-250. So I'll be saving right away
@@d_k_C_A Yes, That is a huge electric bill. Yikes. I have an all electric home. Geothermal Heating & Cooling 2500 sqft ranch.. $200 per month average monthly bill. 2,500 Watt Solar Grid-Tie.
@@MrSummitville that's awesome good sir. I don't know if you live in southern California but here in the communist state of California the government steals from us and gives to the poor....
How much the whole system cost?
You can get the circuit diagrams and cost for the single inverter version on the project page here: projectswithdave.com/battery-backup-for-home-diy/
That will give you a good starting point for your estimate.
Why can victron put all of this in one box
Oooo you didn’t blur out your ip and protocol password.
Really, 15kWh in a WEEK, for your essentials . What's the rest of the Total ? Off-grid is a surprise for a lot of cases where people have spent 100K+$ and have to conserve like a Monk in Winter.
It is not practical to build a solar system large enough to survive December and January without supplemental power from a generator for off grid systems.
I meant Refridgerator Cheers
I can't find your video: Expanding My Array
I added it to the description, and here is a link: th-cam.com/video/IZjISqEWglU/w-d-xo.html
Maybe you can help me I'm looking for someone that can help me install my small solar power system that I have on my box van I need someone in Washington that's familiar with a viltron energy solar charge controller and distributors going into a 48 volt inverter it has 5 solar panels on the roof each are 370 watt for as total of 1850 watts all together. So do you know anyone in Washington state that can accurately hookup this system???
Sorry, I don't.
145W at 4:32 AM What's that Cheers
Probably fridge kicking on.
What type f Fridge do you have mine is loadeing 190W every hour
It's a GE. It seems to have different modes that draw varying amounts of power.
That is a very efficient Fridge, Do you switch it off a night You're not completely off grid are you ,the Grid was charging your batteries, how many AH have you got ,Cheers
I'm not off grid, but I run my fridge off grid most of the year. I have a 25 kWh battery.
الله أكبر 🎉❤
Staubli MC4 Connectors
I have found the Staubli MC4 connectors to work the best of all the ones I have used.
How in the world did you afford all this?
Because of the time I have spent showing my projects on TH-cam, I have been able to get discounts on subsequent projects. The more you "like" and "share" the videos the more opportunity I will have to continue expanding and publishing more projects. Thanks!
A gutter on the bottom of all the components would make this look so much better. Professional if you will, but great content.
Yes, If I was doing the whole thing at once and planning it out, I would have used a trough.
Starting to sound like a Victron ad.
Yeah nice but most DIYers these days are not into paying the Victron luxury tax. Easy way to add $1000+ to any build.
There are cheaper alternatives, I have some listed on my inverter page here: projectswithdave.com/inverters/
Are there any alternatives that allow you to switch from PV/ battery to grid like was explained in this video? This is exactly what I want to do
One thing just to know I recommend fire sizes not providing them or not following what is said in the TH-cam video you should calculate them because your situation is likely to be different even if it is just the length or temperature of the room they have way more sizes of solar charge controllers dangerous to they have really really cheap and affordable ones as well for lower current