It's definetly legit. however, It does not indicate his skill as a passer. Magic, Bird, Jokic, LeBron, Kidd, CP3, and more are all clearly better passers but stockton gets put on a higher pedistal (people saying hes a top 5 passer) than he deserves because of the assist record which is objectively just dumb. To me, having stockton that high as a passer or a top 30-40 player ever is indication that you don't watch the game and just look at numbers
@djketchuponthebeat LeBron and Bird are not better passers than Stockton. My top 5 point guards are Magic, Isaiah, Stockton, J Kidd and Chris Paul. Everyone in that list is a top 40 player on the NBA top 75 list. So your claim goes against the opinion of many people. So if Stockton is not top 30 to 40, or any of the other players I listed not as well?
I've seen John Stockon throw a pass that flew past multiple defenders on five straight possessions against the spurs and those passes were through VERY TIGHT windows that even the best of the best cant replicate without missing the cutter 2 or 3 times. But this was ROUTINE for him. He frequently did this to cutters and shooters. He was far and away the most accurate passer in the history of the game and he also has an Assist to TO ratio that's the highest.
Can you imagine? Julius Erving would have 50,000 points and average 80 if they called the game like they do today. No hand checking, can;t touch him, you can carry the ball, and take 5 steps without dribbling. Today's players are an absolute joke. None of the stats for the last 20 years are legit.
The only record that may be unbreakable is the total points scored ,just because Nobody will be able to stay Healty and reach that milestone like Lebron did
Stockton set the assist and steals records 7 and 8 years before he retired. Over 20 years later no one is even remotely close. He was one of the most consistent and durable players of all time. And a tough sob.
John Stockton is not just the totals leader in assists, he also holds the assists per 36 minutes, assists per 100 possessions and assist percentage all-time career records. He holds the per-100 and assist percentage records in the playoffs, as well. He led the league in assists AND assists per game 9 times - consecutively. He led the league in steals per game and steals percentage twice in the regular season and twice in the playoffs. He led the league in True Shooting thrice, and has 6 seasons in the 50/40/80 club (he only ever averaged 90+% on his freethrows in the playoffs, which he did thrice). His team made the playoffs in each of his 19 seasons, and in those 19 regular seasons he received MVP votes in 12, 11 consecutive, and DPOY votes in two of those. He averaged 31.8 minutes per game and missed 22 games for the entirety of his career. In the playoffs, he averaged 35.2 and missed no games. John Stockton had availability, and while he was available, he also was the best distributor the game has ever seen, and more than pulled his weight on the defensive end - in the 87 playoffs, he led the league in Defensive Box Plus/Minus. To quote Wilt Chamberlain in 1988, when asked which single player he would start a franchise with, "I like Johnny Stockton, I think he's the most complete person in his position."
On the other hand this dude's consistency was crazy. He played 82 games like 90% of his career. Almost never missed games and always stuffed the stat sheet. His ast and stl records are crazy.
Even the season with 50 games was the strike shorted season in which he played all 50 games. 😂 He missed 4 games one year and 22 another year. That was it. For 19 season. Respect.
There is a certain type of athleticism to being a tough SOB. I think it was Chris Webber talking about trying to knock Stockton out of his shoes with a screen in his rookie season only to have Stockton bounce up and remark good screen young fella.
I'm glad people like you are still around. You keep the legacy and the past of the NBA alive. As a 17-year-old kid who has been watching since 2011 I have nothing but respect for past players. Stockton deserves more respect than he's given.
Some people feel that higher assist totals are a product of a flawed scheme that typically doesn’t win at the highest level, and that Stockton is overrated because that’s the biggest reason why he stands out.
@@fortynights1513If I know anything, it's that the common public love their age old logical fallacies. So for the majority... I think I'm gonna go with 'Recency Bias' for 800 Alex.
@@celtics17banners84 that and I believe it's also a by product of the Anti-MJ campaign where you try and discredit him by trying to convince people that everyone and every team he played against were trash.
It's as simple as this - John is the ONLY player leading the all time in two MAJOR stats categories. And he is leading it by a landslide!! The most underrated player ever and it's not close
While I still think that it is a valid opinion to have that Magic is the best passer of all-time, the following stat absolutely blew my mind when I first heard it: Everyone points to the fact that Magic’s Assists per Game (APG) is higher than Stockton’s but then discounts Stockton’s total assists because he played for so long. But the only reason that Stockton’s APG are lower than Magic’s is because he played for so long. Stockton had a 5 season stretch, where his average APG was higher than Magic’s single best season APG. Magic’s highest APG season was 13.1. Stockton had between 13.6-14.5 APG for 5 consecutive seasons.
So tired of these idiots putting out content dissing long retired NBA players for clicks. They are contributing to the dumbness of young people today. Young people need to learn how to look at things critically and leave the emotion out of it. Taking Stocking's assists on the road in his career and prorating it toward his entire career and having him still be 3,000 assists ahead of Paul is just the chef's kiss. Keep doing what you are doing Jonny. You are fighting the good fight against disinformation.
He was actually an athletic freak though. Was tough as nails and as strong as an ox for a guy his size. I heard that doctors have done studies on his sitting heart rate. An amazing athlete and amazing player
I met him in person at his basketball camp in the 90s in Spokane. His legs were like tree trunks. Dude was much thicker and stronger than people think.
I know Matt Harpring's doc (starting SF for the Jazz for Stock's last two seasons), and the doc said to me "You know Stockton has a resting heartrate of 40 bpm?" This is when he was 38 years old.
Idk why people ever thought his assist stats could've been faked. He played 1,504 games, started 1,300 games, and played in all 82 games 16 times. And its not like he had a season averaging something crazy like 20+ assists where you might be able to question that
It's funny when people arguing his stats as being inflated, assist has some room for inflation (modern day is way worse) But his steal numbers are insane and not something your opponent would allow you to inflate 😂
I remember back on one of the old “Open Court” episodes the legend s who played against them were talking about him and Karl. They said they thought Stockton made Malone more than the other way around. And like him or not, Malone was really really good so for Stockton to be the more important one says ALOT. Unless of course your a fool who just wants to hate
One thing Malone benefits from here (in addition to passing obviously), is that Stockton wasn’t looking to score typically. If he was, then naturally Malone gets a few less points at least
@@mohahmed4304It was an adjusted stat to what averaged with Malone vs. without Malone, if he had played the same career without him. But yes... Really impressive, and only goes on to highlight how ridiculously good he was.
The funny thing is, it's this weird circular argument. Haters say that Stockton wasn't that great, because he was propped up by playing with Malone, but those same people will also say that Malone wasn't that great because he was propped up by playing with Stockton. I've never seen anybody trying to dismiss any other great player because of their team mates, but somehow these two absolute legends don't count because they played together.
Maybe NOT the most underrated player in history, but definitely in the top ten. Maybe NOT the most disrespected player in history, but definitely in the top ten. Maybe NOT the greater passer in history, but definitely in the top three. Maybe NOT... NEVERMIND He is the ALL TIME LEADER in assists and steals. Don't be a casual, show respect to Mr. Stockton. Thanks Jonny for the Video.
For me, Stockton was never the "best" PG in any season. But Top 3 to 5 EVERY YEAR for practically 19 years? Yeah, that's why Stockton is both...underrated and NOT underrated.
@standingmaximumverticaljump Agreed. That used to annoy me so much when I was young that I don't think I fully appreciated his career until after he retired.
@@jlui21you are a joke! Stockton was the BEST PG in the 80s, no question. WTF are you trolling about? Only Magic and Steph can claim to be the BEST PG for an entiee decade, and Steph is not a real PG by definition
Gaurds back then weren't allowed to dribble all the time. Defenders were in the grill all the time and like you said, you used your off hand to keep the defense off you.
The "only one hand" narrative sticks with certain guys and follows them forever which really pisses me off. Julius Randle is the guy that they say it about now. It really doesn't matter. Half of the league literally only has one hand and the other 40 percent rarely use their off hand. Truly ambidextrous players are an anomaly, and really don't have that much of an advantage because of it.
@@Davivd2I'm 40 and everyone "knows I never had a left." I can continue to say "why use it when I'm so good with the right." Besides, after a few drives, they'll overplay and I can just spin to the left and finish with the right hand! 😂
One narrative is that Stockton wasn't athletic, and Jonny confirmed that he is indeed unathletic. I guess Stockton missed too many games, couldn't get any steals, and couldn't run fast breaks, because he was so unathletic. Another narrative is that Stockton didn't have a left hand, and Jonny didn't dispute that, either. I'm not sure how Stockton's go to move was a crossover dribble without a left hand.
I was born and raised in Utah. I've been a Jazz fan since I started following the NBA around the age of 8 or 9. The Jazz were tough AF in the late 90s. The only reason they didn't win titles in '97 and '98 is because their finals opponent was the greatest team ever assembled (in my opinion). They went up against Jordan, Pippen, Rodman, Kerr, and other hall of famers who were led by Phil Jackson. That's a legendary team. They swept the Kobe/Shaq Lakers in the playoffs during one of those seasons, and I'm pretty sure they beat them 4 to 1 in the other. Stockton was the heart and soul of the Jazz at that time. Without him, they wouldn't have stood a chance, and he's still underrated to this day. I love seeing videos like this that give him the credit he deserves. One of the best things about Stockton is that he was on the same team for all of his 19-year career. He is beloved out here. There are even streets named after him in SLC. Thanks for showing him some love and respect. I appreciate the video.
I went to Oregon state the same time Gary Payton enrolled. I ran across his path about 3 times it’s a small town. First I was at the gym doing stairs as a work out and I saw this skinny black freshman in practice moving impossibly fast. Then I ran into him at the movies in the line with some hot black girl, I presume his girlfriend at the time. 3rd time he for some reason wanted to play rat ball at the student recreation center where we would all play pick up games and the reward for winning is you get so stay on the court and face the next or same challenger. I had play against Payton and he was impossibly fast like on another level then we all could function at. For example one time he got the rebound and was down to the other end before I could even turn around.
@@fortynights1513 definitely. Greg Ostertag was their main center then and he was tne prototypical uncoordinated, unathletic big whose only skill was being tall and having fouls to give.
Another great video spewing facts about 90s greats!!! Thx!! Stockton was a beast and was part of the OG Dream Team for that reason not because Thomas was disliked.
No one is forgetting that. Unfortunately, he (and Karl) didn't have much else going for them, other than each other much of the time. Thurl Bailey was a good, not great solid player. Jeff Malone and Jeff Hornacek as well. But they were not there that long with the Jazz.
@@fortynights1513 the actual meaning of an assist is you pass the ball to someone who scores without a dribble, nowadays you can pass it to a guy who scores off of a step back jumper and it'll be counted as an assist
I was a laker fan back then and i hated john stockton and karl malone. Those two literally did pick and roll all game long all season long deep into the playoffs. These noobs gonna sit here and tell us pick and roll assists dont count?
Exactly. Long-time Bulls fan. Same response. Hated playing the Jazz. Nothing but respect for Stockton and Malone. Magic and Michael would say the same thing.
Out of all the greats that did not win a championship because of MJ… John is my personal favorite. As pure of a point guard as can be and is more reliable and more dependable under pressure than most of the overpaid, entitled, and me first cry babies of today’s NBA.
Jonny, thanks a lot for this video and defending the legacy of many old all-time greats, without diminishing modern players and game. It's so rare this days. I extend even more my thanks to the specific case of John Stockton because he was my second favorite player back in the 90's, just behind MJ. And still today he navigates easily in my top 5 PG ever (from the 2nd to the 4th spot, depending on the mood).
Awesome video man. I grew up in Chicago during the 90's and went to a ton of Bulls games. Stockton was fucking terrifying in those last two finals. He was incredible. Even Pippen could barely slow down his offensive output. Anyone saying Stockton isn't a top 3 PG all-time just doesn't know their shit. He has the numbers, and he had the in-game aura. Like you said, ask Payton.
You should mention that JS was also statistically one of the most clutch players ever (unlike Malone). I forget what stats measure this, but I'm sure you'll find them if you Google it.
exactly right ..... he's the reason, why we didn't see the nba finals,bulls vs. rockets .... the dream,sir charles & the glyde vs. air jordan,pippen & rodman .... while watching it live,i was so pissed he did hit that 3 point shot that sent the jazz to the finals ..... 😂🤣😂🤣-🤪🤪🤪🤪🤪🤪
@@johnnier.o.d4746 Inside The NBA once trolled Chuck with a clip of moments he'd like to redo. Most were silly, but when they showed JS hitting that 3 over him, he looked shell-shocked.😂It's called "Charles Barkley 51.9 Seconds."
I loved watching the guy drop 30 points when his team needed it. He had that in his bag. A 40 percent 3 point shooter when nobody was shooting 40 percent. This guy feared nobody or any moment that arose.
@@johnnier.o.d4746 Let's not forget the Pacers had a 4th quarter lead in game 7 of that series against the Bulls. If they didn't choke that game away, that '98 final could have been Jazz vs Pacers. That would have been one hell of a series as well. It would have also pissed off the NBA front office having two of the smallest markets in the finals at that time.
8:07 actually, no. the nba said that the league itself tracks the stats not by scorekeepers for their teams. it arose following the accusation that jjj had rigged stats bc his numbers at home were just that better than his stats away that were eventually disproven
Great feedback! This raises 2 thoughts... 1, has it always been this way? 2, if this has indeed always been the case, then the criticisms about Stockton's "home-brewed stats" look even dumber. Lol
I think it’s a question of how many dribbles you get and it still counts as an assist. Stockton had many passes to Malone that lead to assists but Malone dribbled for ten seconds.
@@jatdb51t Do you remember that it was Earvin who broke Oscar Robertson's record for assist in the early nineties? Earvin then retired because he got H.I.V. So Earvin didn't necessary get to build upon his record. Despite a brief return in nineteen ninety six. So John easily broke Earvin record. Not to dispute the fact that John was a very good point guard. But there is a reason why he is the all-time leader in assists. No complaints about John being the all-time leader in steals. That's legit.
@@jatdb51tThere’s also the fact that that’s a per game stat, and we didn’t really see Magic get the longevity he could’ve. We didn’t exactly get to see him decline. Conversely though, Magic could have been closer to where Stockton is in assists.
@@fortynights1513 he might have, or he might have fallen off with age. But we will never know. We can only give magic credit for what he actually did. The point I was trying to make is Stockton became #1 in assists all time during the 94-95 season, he was #1 in assists per game at that time. He played past his prime and dropped to #2 all time in assists per game during the 98-99 season.
I can't remember any opponent of his that didn't respect him and praised him. So, even he didn't have left (and that's not completely true) he was hell of a player making all these plays with only one hand. If not for a Stockton who knows how much points Malone would have. Stockton was an ultimate competitor
Stockton is probably my favorite player of all time but that said he routinely seemed to have problems against Kevin Johnson - who may be ne of the more underrated PGs of the 90s era.
People have no idea how it was playing basketball in the 80s and 90s. Hand check: legit. Point guards: mainly facilitator than scoring machines. John Stockton has been one of the best point guards ever, period.
This generation of fans are a joke. To disrespect John Stockton and his legacy is to disrespect the game itself. The definition of the pure Point Guard.
John Stockton being #1 career all time in assists and steals is phenomenal. And the distance between total assists from John to Chris Paul and everybody else is massive
@@CorneliusMagnus now thats definitely not the main reason why ratings are down, but if you think about it, if younger people regurgitate stuff like that 24/7 on the greats of the past, why would any older fan want to watch the games? At least, a decent amount of them will be disgusted enough not to tune in anymore..
@@CorneliusMagnus Younger fans want to focus on what they are seeing, and think it is the best. Older fans remember history and context, so they educate the younger fans. The League has constantly and intentionally made offense easier and defense harder, so it casts doubt on the legitimacy of the current NBA. The NBA, ESPN, and Klutch don't want people to notice that, so they feed younger fans BS and try to discredit the past players. Don't look behind the curtain and educate yourself on the history of the game. When I was a kid, I read all about the players of the past that I had never seen. I wanted to know the history. I couldn't really compare them to the present, but I still valued that history. Like many have said, no other sport denigrates the past to prop up the present. We even say that you can't really compare eras, because of rules changes and styles of schemes of play. But the current era is insecure and feels lacking, so they lash out at the past players. I also think Social media and 24/7 media coverage leads to block heads talking out of their butts. Gilbert Arenas, Kendrick Perkins, SAS, Nick Wright, etc. all mouthing off with stupid stuff, just to get people talking, whether for or against them, it is engagement, content.
It's a PART of why ratings are way down. Not THE reason. I'd say the bigger reason is the terrible play on the floor, with all the rules favoring offense, but kids and even modern players hating old legends is most definitely up there.
@@shorewallGreat post. I also respected legends I never really watched play. Kareem was mostly before my time. My Dad loved Dr J. I studied the careers of Jerry West, Wilt, Bill, even down to role players turned coaches like Phil Jackson and Pat Riley. I love American history. World history and NBA history. I don't think there's a lot of kids who feel that way anymore, and that disappoints me. I'd love to talk about past players with the younger fans.
I love how MJs weakness was 3pt shooting the first 4 seasons. Than after that he turned a weakness into a strength. The man worked so hard he truly had no weakness
@rmuzic6531 you don't need to lead the the league to turn it into a Strength. He went from shooting in the teens to shooting lower 30%. Almost what the league average is now. What are you even talking about
@ricosauve5 Mann please do your research before posting something this stupid. MJ barely took any 3 pt attempts...he usually might of taken less than 20 attempts for a entire season. His career avg was 1.7 in comparison LBJ is 4.7, and Kobe whose game was similar to MJ career avg was 4.1. He never turned it into a strength because he didn't take to many of them. He had one hot game against the blazers in the finals with 6 in the first half and people want to think he turned it into a strength lol ..man I'm 45 and seen all of this. Yes his avg improved because he might hit 1 once in a while but that was never his strength and he didn't need it.
@@rmuzic6531He didn’t turn it into a total strength per se, but he did indeed get better at it. Plus, he himself said that he didn’t want to focus too much on improving his 3pt shooting because it would take away other aspects of his game.
Stockton is one of my favorite players. Played the right way, seldom missed games, gave it his all every night. Very smart and tough player. An all time great. Thank you for this video.
Thank you to give him his credits. He's the definition of the original PG, I take him over anybody for this role. Also about the Malone helped him part, why all the PGs who played with a dominant big dont have 10 assists per game? You can have the best hooper with you, if you cant find him he wont score.
Apart from their talents, the top point guards assist averages are also impacted by what share of their teams passing they do. And no knock on Stockton here, but it sounds like the Jazz didn’t have much of a secondary playmaker in his earlier career.
It's so stupid: everyone says Stockton couldn't have gotten his assists without Malone, and everyone says Malone couldn't get his points without Stockton. Sounds like they were both legendary to me
Just because players of today can catch a pass, take six or seven dribbles, make a few pump fakes before shooting. That doesn't mean that it's any less of an assist than a pass then shoot.😂
@@ian0143 dont forget that on STOCKTON ERA KMALONE was the player with more and 1s and those assists didnt count..and neither inbound passes. NOW you see GIANNIS making an inbound pass to DAME who didnt even grab the ball so that the seconds dont count let the ball roll almost at half court grab it throw the ball to the front passing half court took 1 step and made a logo 3 and NBA counted that as an assist
I like most of Rusty's content, but he is out of left field on Stockton. It's like he's mad at Stockton, but no one really rates Stockton too highly? No one puts Stockton over anyone he shouldn't be. Most people have Isaiah over him, because of the championships. But Stockton clears CP3 by a mile, due to longevity. Pound for pound, they are close, but when Stockton is over 3000 assists ahead, and also the record holder for steals, you can't argue that. CP3 made a finals, Stockton made 2. Maybe if CP3 won against Giannis, he could clear Stockton. But he didn't, so he will never clear Stockton.
Rusty Buckets’s deep dive videos are really good at what they do. As for his take on Stockton, it really comes down to the way he views how point guards were told to play in the 80’s and 90’s. He views pass-first point guards as an inherently flawed concept because he thinks that just about all schemes where there is only one player doing most of the playmaking are too predictable. I see why one could say Stockton is overrated by some, but he did his job well. I honestly think Rusty’s arguments are a better case for Stockton’s coaches being overrated as opposed to him.
I first saw Stockton when he was in college and thought he would be a really good pro. Why, because he was really, really fast. Hands, feet, starts, stops. He was a great point guard .
Stockton: Home Games: In 751 games 8,174 assists, averg. 10.9 assists per game. Away Games: Across 753 games 7,632 assists, averg. 10.1 assists per game. Magic: Home Games: In 448 games, 5,197 assists, averg.11.6 assists per game. Away Games: Across 458 games 4,954 assists, averg. 10.8 assists per game. Paul: Home Games: In 655 games 6,310 assists, averg.9.6 assists per game. Away Games: Across 643 games 5,802 assists, averg. 9.0 assists per game. James: Home Games: In 771 games, 5,848 assists, averg. 7.6 assists per game. Away Games: Across 745 games 5,364 assists, averg. 7.2 assists per game.
Also, back then an assist was defined as a pass to a player who makes an immediate action towards the basket... now a player can pass where the receiver dribbles several times, makes 2 spin moves and then a fade away jumper and that is consodered an assist in todays game...ridiculous
Stockton and Malone was the bane of my existence growing up. The pick and roll was unguardable, assists are the reason. Yes he had Malone but they were drafted same year and same round. Home cooking aka getting favoritism has been a thing since there have been sports. Stockton is top 5 PG, period.
You are right about the durability, but look at his averages when he was in his prime. It's not that he played every game, but he was 2 to 3 assists ahead of Magic every season. So Chris Paul, Jason Kidd, or whoever you want to plug in. Playing 82 games a year isn't going to close that gap, and none of those guys are going to go past 12 APG when Stockton was getting 13 to 15.
I bet if someone told Gary Payton that John Stockton didn't have a left hand, he'd probably fight you! Me personally, I've seen Stockton driving baseline to the hole, dribbling with his left!
Stockton is by definition the perfect PG, look up the dictionary and you will see a picture if him. No flaws in his game. Hate on him is just simply ignorance
There is an interview with Magic stating that Stockton is a better pure point guard then himself. When one of the NBA goats said your better than him at something it should mean something.
I hated when the Rockets played the Jazz, because of how effective Stockton was. He could penetrate the paint and get a layup or dish it off for an assist. Hit mid range jumpers and threes as well as get steals on the defensive end. He was the best point guard Ive ever seen imo. Chris Paul is definitely the second best, and Steve Francis was the most fun to watch.
I watched Stock a lot in the NBA. All the times I saw him play in pe4rson he was not in Utah. He was just as good in Seattle, Portland and San Francisco as a assist man, a ball mover and a shooter.
This earned a sub. The pasty gangster rocked those short shorts and played consistent fundamentally sound ball. Having to rely on his knowledge, experience and understanding gave him an opportunity that not a lot of players who rely on physicality get; longevity.
01 baby, Stockton is single handily the best TRADITIONAL PG the league has ever seen then Paul. Don’t even get started with nothing curry related before you saying anything about curry look up the role of a traditional PG. Stockton CP3 Rondo.
The home vs. away discrepancy in APG for Stockton (or for any team's primary facilitator, for that matter) has to be considered in the context of how many made field goals per game the team has in home vs. away games. If, just as an example, the Jazz during Stockton's career averaged 2 fewer field goals in away games than in home games, then of course he would have slightly fewer APG in away games - it would be strange if he didn't. I have no idea what the exact difference in field goals is - it could be lower or higher than 2 - but I'm sure the Jazz, like any other team, scored slightly less away than at home.
He's a top 5 point guard all time. Magic, Isaiah, Steph, John, and Kidd. EDIT: @9:02 Why isn't Magic featured more when he does amazing stuff like this behind the back pass running full speed handling the ball like it's a guitar in the hands of Eddie Van Halen? He's soooooo underrated these days.
Combination of Curry stans hellbent on making Magic look worse to give their guy the title of best PG of all time and Magic's Twitter account being a meme. He also made an ass of himself when he abruptly left the Lakers FO several years ago but I don't think the vast majority of people care much about that anymore.
@@calebvanberkom5571 FMVP is such a dumb biased award, basketball is a team sport for Christ's sake! I always laugh at those Gen Z nerds saying "this guy is better because he has a FMVP". Jaylen Brown(a guy who LEGIT doesnt have a left hand) is also better than Tatum by that logic...
Great video, Jonny! Nice job in debunking the narratives about Stockton. I remember seeing the "no left hand" criticism of Jordan too. It's ridiculous. As you said, if that narrative was true, he's even more impressive. The other criticisms also are so ignorant. Basketball is a TEAM sport and I like the examples you listed (of the teammates that other stars had). I'm looking forward to your video about LeBron's assists next month. I wouldn't be surprised at all if there were errors. I like LeBron, but it's like you said - people make mistakes and I don't think we have any eras without imperfections in how stats are counted (because people are imperfect, as you said). Stockton is an incredible and one of the best point guards to have ever played. He was skilled on both sides of the court. His longevity is incredible and so was his endurance (amazing how he missed very few games) and skills. He was fun to watch. Great work again in fact checking and debunking the narratives. Have a great day, Jonny!
When Haberstroh started that kerfluffle talking about how Jordan's steals were inflated, I said, "You just opened Pandora's box, and you aren't going to like what you find." Because if we go back for every player and recount their stats, Lebron ain't gonna like that either. And you can't just pick and choose. Because if you want to cherry pick a few games of Jordan's to cast doubt, then we really need to go back and recount every single damn game, for every player, in order to get accurate stats. But he wants to selectively pick a few of Jordan's to cast doubt on MJ, while thinking that no one would do that for Lebron? Naive.
Stockton is great! I think people don't appreciate him as much because he's not a flashy personality but "Mr reliable" - but that very much so! I find him to be very similar to Pete Sampras in that regard
@@shorewall That's not what the opening comment was about. Flashy personality and flashy game are two different things. Stockton didn't have a flashy personality, but his game had flashiness to it.
They want to prop up their narrative that those are plumbers era. They thought that we have not plays with fancy dribbling, fancy long shot, etc. We've seen it during Harlem globetrotters games.
Can’t wait for the LeBron assist video I’ve been saying his assist number are fishy for years. But also I hope you’d consider looking into the current eras assist keeping in general. They have become waaaaaay to lenient on what qualifies as an assist
I LOVE the NBA storyteller's video on Stockton's lack of a left hand. "That John Stockton has No Left Video" It's supposed to be funny by the way, not to be taken too seriously, although there is a grain of truth in there.
What is your opinion on John Stockton? Is his record completely legit?
Yes
How could it not be? He is the all-time assist and steals records. That right there let you know that he is an all-time great.
It's definetly legit. however, It does not indicate his skill as a passer. Magic, Bird, Jokic, LeBron, Kidd, CP3, and more are all clearly better passers but stockton gets put on a higher pedistal (people saying hes a top 5 passer) than he deserves because of the assist record which is objectively just dumb. To me, having stockton that high as a passer or a top 30-40 player ever is indication that you don't watch the game and just look at numbers
@djketchuponthebeat LeBron and Bird are not better passers than Stockton.
My top 5 point guards are Magic, Isaiah, Stockton, J Kidd and Chris Paul. Everyone in that list is a top 40 player on the NBA top 75 list. So your claim goes against the opinion of many people.
So if Stockton is not top 30 to 40, or any of the other players I listed not as well?
He'd be at least as good today, since he'd get a lot of ball screens, and would be expected to shoot more 3s.
In the future they'll say "They only had podcasters and streamers for competition"
You mean *we’ll
Best comment!
😂💯
They already do downplay the competition today. We don't have to wait for the future.
Jokic is embarrassing them rn
I've seen John Stockon throw a pass that flew past multiple defenders on five straight possessions against the spurs and those passes were through VERY TIGHT windows that even the best of the best cant replicate without missing the cutter 2 or 3 times. But this was ROUTINE for him. He frequently did this to cutters and shooters. He was far and away the most accurate passer in the history of the game and he also has an Assist to TO ratio that's the highest.
I think Jason Kidd is better .I dont think Stockton can bring Kenyon Martin to the finals
Either goes he was the shit, hands down 💯@@hoodpimp1519
You are a dope
CP3 has a higher assist to turnover ratio. Tyus Jones is probably 1st his is insanely high
Yes he was a great passer, but he is gay
If stockton played today, you could probably add a minimum of 3 more assists per game with the way assists are scored today
Can you imagine? Julius Erving would have 50,000 points and average 80 if they called the game like they do today. No hand checking, can;t touch him, you can carry the ball, and take 5 steps without dribbling. Today's players are an absolute joke. None of the stats for the last 20 years are legit.
Pace was slower then
you guys are crazy, stockton was not picking defenses apart with his passing, he was the dump down king😞
Easily. What they count as an assist now is laughable
@@fortynights1513marginally
His records will never be broken
What’s harder to break the assist record or the steals record?
Records are meant to be broken.
The only record that may be unbreakable is the total points scored ,just because Nobody will be able to stay Healty and reach that milestone like Lebron did
@@notqt1367..... yeah, that's why, bronny the future 🐐 will break his record ..... they don't call him the future 🐐 for no reason ....... 😂🤣😂🤣-😭😭😭😭😭😭
Stockton set the assist and steals records 7 and 8 years before he retired. Over 20 years later no one is even remotely close. He was one of the most consistent and durable players of all time. And a tough sob.
John Stockton is not just the totals leader in assists, he also holds the assists per 36 minutes, assists per 100 possessions and assist percentage all-time career records. He holds the per-100 and assist percentage records in the playoffs, as well. He led the league in assists AND assists per game 9 times - consecutively.
He led the league in steals per game and steals percentage twice in the regular season and twice in the playoffs.
He led the league in True Shooting thrice, and has 6 seasons in the 50/40/80 club (he only ever averaged 90+% on his freethrows in the playoffs, which he did thrice).
His team made the playoffs in each of his 19 seasons, and in those 19 regular seasons he received MVP votes in 12, 11 consecutive, and DPOY votes in two of those.
He averaged 31.8 minutes per game and missed 22 games for the entirety of his career. In the playoffs, he averaged 35.2 and missed no games.
John Stockton had availability, and while he was available, he also was the best distributor the game has ever seen, and more than pulled his weight on the defensive end - in the 87 playoffs, he led the league in Defensive Box Plus/Minus.
To quote Wilt Chamberlain in 1988, when asked which single player he would start a franchise with, "I like Johnny Stockton, I think he's the most complete person in his position."
John Stockton is NOT overrated.
50/40/80-90% club isn't impressive if he barely scored lol
@@rev696He didn't need to score. The PG position historically isnt the scorer on the team.
@@rev696look at scottie pippin career scoring average. I'll wait kid
@@jordanpc1489It sounds like it’s become more of a shot creator in addition to a ball handler instead of just the latter.
On the other hand this dude's consistency was crazy. He played 82 games like 90% of his career. Almost never missed games and always stuffed the stat sheet. His ast and stl records are crazy.
He missed 0 games in 17 of his 19 seasons. Never missed a playoff game.
Even the season with 50 games was the strike shorted season in which he played all 50 games. 😂
He missed 4 games one year and 22 another year. That was it. For 19 season. Respect.
@@John6-40 i mean Lebum will miss 19 games just in the first round of the playoffs lol
There is a certain type of athleticism to being a tough SOB. I think it was Chris Webber talking about trying to knock Stockton out of his shoes with a screen in his rookie season only to have Stockton bounce up and remark good screen young fella.
His free throws were automatic as well
I'm glad people like you are still around. You keep the legacy and the past of the NBA alive. As a 17-year-old kid who has been watching since 2011 I have nothing but respect for past players. Stockton deserves more respect than he's given.
He’d be worshiped if he played today. The only reason they hate him is because he’s not from their time.
Some people feel that higher assist totals are a product of a flawed scheme that typically doesn’t win at the highest level, and that Stockton is overrated because that’s the biggest reason why he stands out.
Because he's white. Kids like black players only. How many real Jokic and Luka fans you know?
But I agree, he's need to be from this time as well.
@@fortynights1513If I know anything, it's that the common public love their age old logical fallacies.
So for the majority... I think I'm gonna go with 'Recency Bias' for 800 Alex.
@@celtics17banners84 that and I believe it's also a by product of the Anti-MJ campaign where you try and discredit him by trying to convince people that everyone and every team he played against were trash.
Even if he played today I’d still hate on him
It's as simple as this - John is the ONLY player leading the all time in two MAJOR stats categories. And he is leading it by a landslide!!
The most underrated player ever and it's not close
While I still think that it is a valid opinion to have that Magic is the best passer of all-time, the following stat absolutely blew my mind when I first heard it:
Everyone points to the fact that Magic’s Assists per Game (APG) is higher than Stockton’s but then discounts Stockton’s total assists because he played for so long. But the only reason that Stockton’s APG are lower than Magic’s is because he played for so long. Stockton had a 5 season stretch, where his average APG was higher than Magic’s single best season APG. Magic’s highest APG season was 13.1. Stockton had between 13.6-14.5 APG for 5 consecutive seasons.
So tired of these idiots putting out content dissing long retired NBA players for clicks. They are contributing to the dumbness of young people today. Young people need to learn how to look at things critically and leave the emotion out of it. Taking Stocking's assists on the road in his career and prorating it toward his entire career and having him still be 3,000 assists ahead of Paul is just the chef's kiss. Keep doing what you are doing Jonny. You are fighting the good fight against disinformation.
They don't want to educate the young people, they want to keep them ignorant. It's enraging.
Idiots is the RIGHT word for them
This generation has lost the ability to retain information. Humans weren't designed to consume as much as we/younger kids do.
These long retired NBA players are also dissing modern NBA players too lol
@@CMKHU The fans in general are dissing the modern NBA, proof to that is the massively declining viewership.
He was actually an athletic freak though. Was tough as nails and as strong as an ox for a guy his size. I heard that doctors have done studies on his sitting heart rate. An amazing athlete and amazing player
A very different kind of athletic freak, but you're not wrong. Dude was the definition of an Iron Man.
Dude was 6’2 and is the all-time leader in steals he’s definitely an athletic freak in any category
I met him in person at his basketball camp in the 90s in Spokane. His legs were like tree trunks. Dude was much thicker and stronger than people think.
I know Matt Harpring's doc (starting SF for the Jazz for Stock's last two seasons), and the doc said to me "You know Stockton has a resting heartrate of 40 bpm?"
This is when he was 38 years old.
I remember seeing an interview with Gary Payton, and he said the thing that surprised him the most about Stockton is how big he actually is in person.
Idk why people ever thought his assist stats could've been faked. He played 1,504 games, started 1,300 games, and played in all 82 games 16 times. And its not like he had a season averaging something crazy like 20+ assists where you might be able to question that
Yeah, I like how this video showed that if you just took his away games assist rate, he would still be 3000 ahead of CP3. Gottem!
He only played for 30 minutes in Sloans rotation, what makes his numbers even more impressive
I mean he holds the record for most Ast per game and in a season
It's funny when people arguing his stats as being inflated, assist has some room for inflation (modern day is way worse) But his steal numbers are insane and not something your opponent would allow you to inflate 😂
I remember back on one of the old “Open Court” episodes the legend s who played against them were talking about him and Karl. They said they thought Stockton made Malone more than the other way around. And like him or not, Malone was really really good so for Stockton to be the more important one says ALOT. Unless of course your a fool who just wants to hate
Crazy thing is u can erase all of his assists to Malone and he’d still be the all time assist leader by a wide margin.
One thing Malone benefits from here (in addition to passing obviously), is that Stockton wasn’t looking to score typically.
If he was, then naturally Malone gets a few less points at least
@@mohahmed4304It was an adjusted stat to what averaged with Malone vs. without Malone, if he had played the same career without him.
But yes... Really impressive, and only goes on to highlight how ridiculously good he was.
That's exactly right. Malone doesn't dribble up the ball. Stockton finds him in his spots and malone has to just raise up most of the time.
The funny thing is, it's this weird circular argument. Haters say that Stockton wasn't that great, because he was propped up by playing with Malone, but those same people will also say that Malone wasn't that great because he was propped up by playing with Stockton. I've never seen anybody trying to dismiss any other great player because of their team mates, but somehow these two absolute legends don't count because they played together.
Maybe NOT the most underrated player in history, but definitely in the top ten.
Maybe NOT the most disrespected player in history, but definitely in the top ten.
Maybe NOT the greater passer in history, but definitely in the top three.
Maybe NOT... NEVERMIND He is the ALL TIME LEADER in assists and steals.
Don't be a casual, show respect to Mr. Stockton.
Thanks Jonny for the Video.
For me, Stockton was never the "best" PG in any season. But Top 3 to 5 EVERY YEAR for practically 19 years? Yeah, that's why Stockton is both...underrated and NOT underrated.
John Stockton is great GREAT Player. But him being White is why White fans love to prop him up as the best PG over Isiah Thomas and Magic.
@standingmaximumverticaljump Agreed. That used to annoy me so much when I was young that I don't think I fully appreciated his career until after he retired.
@@jlui21you are a joke! Stockton was the BEST PG in the 80s, no question. WTF are you trolling about? Only Magic and Steph can claim to be the BEST PG for an entiee decade, and Steph is not a real PG by definition
@@standingmaximumverticaljumpall time assist and steals king, like it or not....
Gaurds back then weren't allowed to dribble all the time. Defenders were in the grill all the time and like you said, you used your off hand to keep the defense off you.
exactly. kids who have only seen the 'freedom of movement' era have no idea what real basketball looks like.
The "only one hand" narrative sticks with certain guys and follows them forever which really pisses me off. Julius Randle is the guy that they say it about now. It really doesn't matter. Half of the league literally only has one hand and the other 40 percent rarely use their off hand. Truly ambidextrous players are an anomaly, and really don't have that much of an advantage because of it.
@@uberneanderthalWhen does the “freedom of movement” era begin and why is it not real basketball in your book?
@@Davivd2I'm 40 and everyone "knows I never had a left." I can continue to say "why use it when I'm so good with the right." Besides, after a few drives, they'll overplay and I can just spin to the left and finish with the right hand! 😂
@@VeedoCapone What's crazy, is that Magic is the GOAT PG and probably had a left on par with Stockton if not worse.
This video not only debunk the dumb narratives about Stockton, but it annihilates them
One narrative is that Stockton wasn't athletic, and Jonny confirmed that he is indeed unathletic. I guess Stockton missed too many games, couldn't get any steals, and couldn't run fast breaks, because he was so unathletic.
Another narrative is that Stockton didn't have a left hand, and Jonny didn't dispute that, either. I'm not sure how Stockton's go to move was a crossover dribble without a left hand.
It does neither of those things
@@penkima4923you can find hundreds of clips of him using his left. Even if he didn’t have a left what does that say about his records?
I was born and raised in Utah. I've been a Jazz fan since I started following the NBA around the age of 8 or 9.
The Jazz were tough AF in the late 90s.
The only reason they didn't win titles in '97 and '98 is because their finals opponent was the greatest team ever assembled (in my opinion).
They went up against Jordan, Pippen, Rodman, Kerr, and other hall of famers who were led by Phil Jackson. That's a legendary team.
They swept the Kobe/Shaq Lakers in the playoffs during one of those seasons, and I'm pretty sure they beat them 4 to 1 in the other.
Stockton was the heart and soul of the Jazz at that time. Without him, they wouldn't have stood a chance, and he's still underrated to this day.
I love seeing videos like this that give him the credit he deserves. One of the best things about Stockton is that he was on the same team for all of his 19-year career.
He is beloved out here. There are even streets named after him in SLC.
Thanks for showing him some love and respect. I appreciate the video.
agreed. but for the Bulls in those years, you gotta name Toni Kukoc before Kerr.
Just think if Mark Eaton's prime coincided with those teams and it was Eaton in the paint in those finals instead of Greg Ostertag?
I went to Oregon state the same time Gary Payton enrolled. I ran across his path about 3 times it’s a small town. First I was at the gym doing stairs as a work out and I saw this skinny black freshman in practice moving impossibly fast. Then I ran into him at the movies in the line with some hot black girl, I presume his girlfriend at the time. 3rd time he for some reason wanted to play rat ball at the student recreation center where we would all play pick up games and the reward for winning is you get so stay on the court and face the next or same challenger. I had play against Payton and he was impossibly fast like on another level then we all could function at. For example one time he got the rebound and was down to the other end before I could even turn around.
@@chrisbarnett5303Was center a liability for them in the later 90’s?
@@fortynights1513 definitely. Greg Ostertag was their main center then and he was tne prototypical uncoordinated, unathletic big whose only skill was being tall and having fouls to give.
Another great video spewing facts about 90s greats!!! Thx!! Stockton was a beast and was part of the OG Dream Team for that reason not because Thomas was disliked.
Where would be Malone without Stockton? You forgot bout that fact.
No one is forgetting that. Unfortunately, he (and Karl) didn't have much else going for them, other than each other much of the time. Thurl Bailey was a good, not great solid player. Jeff Malone and Jeff Hornacek as well. But they were not there that long with the Jazz.
If they recorded assists back then like they do now, Stockton would easily have over 20,000 assists
Absolutely agree, whats Amazing is Stockton's assist numbers in an era where defense is actually allowed.....😂
If anything Stockton's assists totals are deflated cuz assists weren't counted the same in the 80s and 90s as they are today
Are they less strict now?
@@fortynights1513Absolutely they are.
yep.
@@fortynights1513 the actual meaning of an assist is you pass the ball to someone who scores without a dribble, nowadays you can pass it to a guy who scores off of a step back jumper and it'll be counted as an assist
@@basketball_historian23u're being so gentle, it's more like 5 dribble stepback then drive to rim would still be considered an assist😂
I was a laker fan back then and i hated john stockton and karl malone. Those two literally did pick and roll all game long all season long deep into the playoffs. These noobs gonna sit here and tell us pick and roll assists dont count?
The dreaded:"Stockton to Malone"
Exactly. Long-time Bulls fan. Same response. Hated playing the Jazz. Nothing but respect for Stockton and Malone. Magic and Michael would say the same thing.
Out of all the greats that did not win a championship because of MJ… John is my personal favorite. As pure of a point guard as can be and is more reliable and more dependable under pressure than most of the overpaid, entitled, and me first cry babies of today’s NBA.
Jonny, thanks a lot for this video and defending the legacy of many old all-time greats, without diminishing modern players and game. It's so rare this days.
I extend even more my thanks to the specific case of John Stockton because he was my second favorite player back in the 90's, just behind MJ. And still today he navigates easily in my top 5 PG ever (from the 2nd to the 4th spot, depending on the mood).
The dude didn’t take a game off. He was a machine
He shoots 38% from threes in the era PG not allowed to shot 3s. He will be a god in today game.
Awesome video man. I grew up in Chicago during the 90's and went to a ton of Bulls games. Stockton was fucking terrifying in those last two finals. He was incredible. Even Pippen could barely slow down his offensive output.
Anyone saying Stockton isn't a top 3 PG all-time just doesn't know their shit. He has the numbers, and he had the in-game aura. Like you said, ask Payton.
Stockton and Malone are the best "Ironman" duo in any sport ever. played 18 seasons together and maybe missed 100 games combined... absolutely insane.
They missed just a combined 31 games in 18 years together.thats the definition of consistency and durability
You should mention that JS was also statistically one of the most clutch players ever (unlike Malone). I forget what stats measure this, but I'm sure you'll find them if you Google it.
Ask Jeeves
exactly right ..... he's the reason, why we didn't see the nba finals,bulls vs. rockets .... the dream,sir charles & the glyde vs. air jordan,pippen & rodman .... while watching it live,i was so pissed he did hit that 3 point shot that sent the jazz to the finals ..... 😂🤣😂🤣-🤪🤪🤪🤪🤪🤪
@@johnnier.o.d4746 Inside The NBA once trolled Chuck with a clip of moments he'd like to redo. Most were silly, but when they showed JS hitting that 3 over him, he looked shell-shocked.😂It's called "Charles Barkley 51.9 Seconds."
I loved watching the guy drop 30 points when his team needed it. He had that in his bag. A 40 percent 3 point shooter when nobody was shooting 40 percent. This guy feared nobody or any moment that arose.
@@johnnier.o.d4746 Let's not forget the Pacers had a 4th quarter lead in game 7 of that series against the Bulls. If they didn't choke that game away, that '98 final could have been Jazz vs Pacers. That would have been one hell of a series as well. It would have also pissed off the NBA front office having two of the smallest markets in the finals at that time.
15,000 assists is not overrated… dude is very underrated. He is the reason why Karl Malone scored as many points as he did.
8:07 actually, no. the nba said that the league itself tracks the stats not by scorekeepers for their teams. it arose following the accusation that jjj had rigged stats bc his numbers at home were just that better than his stats away that were eventually disproven
Great feedback! This raises 2 thoughts...
1, has it always been this way?
2, if this has indeed always been the case, then the criticisms about Stockton's "home-brewed stats" look even dumber. Lol
Does that disprove that micheal jordan theory where his home stats were way to good because the scorekeeper was biased?
I think it’s a question of how many dribbles you get and it still counts as an assist. Stockton had many passes to Malone that lead to assists but Malone dribbled for ten seconds.
@@jonnyarnett im not sure if its always been this way but the nba did talk abt it after the reddit post gained traction
@@mattmmixes Show me one. Malone hardly dribbled lol
He is the 2nd greatest passer of all time only behind Magic Johnson and he deserves way more respect from fans from this generation
Two completely different passers
Magic is only #1 all time in assists per game because Stockton allowed him to be.
@@jatdb51t Do you remember that it was Earvin who broke Oscar Robertson's record for assist in the early nineties?
Earvin then retired because he got H.I.V. So Earvin didn't necessary get to build upon his record. Despite a brief return in nineteen ninety six. So John easily broke Earvin record. Not to dispute the fact that John was a very good point guard.
But there is a reason why he is the all-time leader in assists.
No complaints about John being the all-time leader in steals. That's legit.
@@jatdb51tThere’s also the fact that that’s a per game stat, and we didn’t really see Magic get the longevity he could’ve.
We didn’t exactly get to see him decline.
Conversely though, Magic could have been closer to where Stockton is in assists.
@@fortynights1513 he might have, or he might have fallen off with age. But we will never know. We can only give magic credit for what he actually did.
The point I was trying to make is Stockton became #1 in assists all time during the 94-95 season, he was #1 in assists per game at that time. He played past his prime and dropped to #2 all time in assists per game during the 98-99 season.
The Karl Malone argument is so hilariously bad. If anything you’d go the other way around, where Karl benefited from Stocktons epic assists.
I can't remember any opponent of his that didn't respect him and praised him. So, even he didn't have left (and that's not completely true) he was hell of a player making all these plays with only one hand. If not for a Stockton who knows how much points Malone would have. Stockton was an ultimate competitor
Pretty sure most his haters never saw him play. He was a dominant PG offensively and defensively. Plus one tough SOB
Dirty mfer too, and I say this as a huge fan of him as a player. The kind of guy you absolutely hate when he's not on your team.
I love Chris Webber's story about trying to set a dirty pick on Stockton, and Stockton runs past, pats him and says nice screen.
Stockton gave the best PGs of his era work 19 years worth one of the best to run the point ever!
Stockton is probably my favorite player of all time but that said he routinely seemed to have problems against Kevin Johnson - who may be ne of the more underrated PGs of the 90s era.
People have no idea how it was playing basketball in the 80s and 90s. Hand check: legit. Point guards: mainly facilitator than scoring machines. John Stockton has been one of the best point guards ever, period.
This generation of fans are a joke. To disrespect John Stockton and his legacy is to disrespect the game itself. The definition of the pure Point Guard.
John Stockton being #1 career all time in assists and steals is phenomenal. And the distance between total assists from John to Chris Paul and everybody else is massive
All this generation does is sit down and discredit the greats of the past. That’s why ratings are down
How does this acctually work in your opinion? I don't think there is any causation or connection of those two things.
@@CorneliusMagnus now thats definitely not the main reason why ratings are down, but if you think about it, if younger people regurgitate stuff like that 24/7 on the greats of the past, why would any older fan want to watch the games? At least, a decent amount of them will be disgusted enough not to tune in anymore..
@@CorneliusMagnus Younger fans want to focus on what they are seeing, and think it is the best. Older fans remember history and context, so they educate the younger fans. The League has constantly and intentionally made offense easier and defense harder, so it casts doubt on the legitimacy of the current NBA. The NBA, ESPN, and Klutch don't want people to notice that, so they feed younger fans BS and try to discredit the past players. Don't look behind the curtain and educate yourself on the history of the game.
When I was a kid, I read all about the players of the past that I had never seen. I wanted to know the history. I couldn't really compare them to the present, but I still valued that history. Like many have said, no other sport denigrates the past to prop up the present. We even say that you can't really compare eras, because of rules changes and styles of schemes of play. But the current era is insecure and feels lacking, so they lash out at the past players.
I also think Social media and 24/7 media coverage leads to block heads talking out of their butts. Gilbert Arenas, Kendrick Perkins, SAS, Nick Wright, etc. all mouthing off with stupid stuff, just to get people talking, whether for or against them, it is engagement, content.
It's a PART of why ratings are way down. Not THE reason. I'd say the bigger reason is the terrible play on the floor, with all the rules favoring offense, but kids and even modern players hating old legends is most definitely up there.
@@shorewallGreat post. I also respected legends I never really watched play. Kareem was mostly before my time. My Dad loved Dr J. I studied the careers of Jerry West, Wilt, Bill, even down to role players turned coaches like Phil Jackson and Pat Riley.
I love American history. World history and NBA history. I don't think there's a lot of kids who feel that way anymore, and that disappoints me.
I'd love to talk about past players with the younger fans.
I love how MJs weakness was 3pt shooting the first 4 seasons. Than after that he turned a weakness into a strength. The man worked so hard he truly had no weakness
How did MJ turn it into a strength? He still wasn't shooting 3's and was still leading the league in scoring 😅
@rmuzic6531 you don't need to lead the the league to turn it into a Strength. He went from shooting in the teens to shooting lower 30%. Almost what the league average is now. What are you even talking about
@ricosauve5 Mann please do your research before posting something this stupid. MJ barely took any 3 pt attempts...he usually might of taken less than 20 attempts for a entire season. His career avg was 1.7 in comparison LBJ is 4.7, and Kobe whose game was similar to MJ career avg was 4.1. He never turned it into a strength because he didn't take to many of them. He had one hot game against the blazers in the finals with 6 in the first half and people want to think he turned it into a strength lol ..man I'm 45 and seen all of this. Yes his avg improved because he might hit 1 once in a while but that was never his strength and he didn't need it.
@@rmuzic6531He didn’t turn it into a total strength per se, but he did indeed get better at it. Plus, he himself said that he didn’t want to focus too much on improving his 3pt shooting because it would take away other aspects of his game.
I watched most of those John Stockton games. Dude was rediculous, even comparing it to players these days.
Stockton is one of my favorite players. Played the right way, seldom missed games, gave it his all every night. Very smart and tough player. An all time great. Thank you for this video.
Thank you to give him his credits. He's the definition of the original PG, I take him over anybody for this role.
Also about the Malone helped him part, why all the PGs who played with a dominant big dont have 10 assists per game? You can have the best hooper with you, if you cant find him he wont score.
Apart from their talents, the top point guards assist averages are also impacted by what share of their teams passing they do.
And no knock on Stockton here, but it sounds like the Jazz didn’t have much of a secondary playmaker in his earlier career.
@@fortynights1513 He came off the bench for the first 3 seasons of his career, because he's white and can't get steals.
@@fortynights1513 Indeed, luck is part of sports and he landed in a great situation for him.
It's so stupid: everyone says Stockton couldn't have gotten his assists without Malone, and everyone says Malone couldn't get his points without Stockton. Sounds like they were both legendary to me
Oh yes because today's stats definitely aren't inflated 🙄
for real, they need to stop talking about inflated stats. Because that is opening Pandora's box for the modern game, and the Wannabe GOAT.
Just because players of today can catch a pass, take six or seven dribbles, make a few pump fakes before shooting. That doesn't mean that it's any less of an assist than a pass then shoot.😂
20s are the INFLATED STATS ERA...
@@ian0143 dont forget that on STOCKTON ERA KMALONE was the player with more and 1s and those assists didnt count..and neither inbound passes.
NOW you see GIANNIS making an inbound pass to DAME who didnt even grab the ball so that the seconds dont count let the ball roll almost at half court grab it throw the ball to the front passing half court took 1 step and made a logo 3 and NBA counted that as an assist
Stockton Is The Best PG Of All-Time 🐐
He’s definitely great but not the greatest of all time.
This is why I absolutely hate Rusty Bucket and LOW. They really just mainstream casuals that try to shit on the older generation.
I like most of Rusty's content, but he is out of left field on Stockton. It's like he's mad at Stockton, but no one really rates Stockton too highly? No one puts Stockton over anyone he shouldn't be. Most people have Isaiah over him, because of the championships. But Stockton clears CP3 by a mile, due to longevity. Pound for pound, they are close, but when Stockton is over 3000 assists ahead, and also the record holder for steals, you can't argue that.
CP3 made a finals, Stockton made 2. Maybe if CP3 won against Giannis, he could clear Stockton. But he didn't, so he will never clear Stockton.
For every rusty buckets snd LOW there’s also a skap attack
Rusty Buckets’s deep dive videos are really good at what they do.
As for his take on Stockton, it really comes down to the way he views how point guards were told to play in the 80’s and 90’s.
He views pass-first point guards as an inherently flawed concept because he thinks that just about all schemes where there is only one player doing most of the playmaking are too predictable.
I see why one could say Stockton is overrated by some, but he did his job well.
I honestly think Rusty’s arguments are a better case for Stockton’s coaches being overrated as opposed to him.
@@shorewall You actually can argue it quite clearly for Chris Paul.
I first saw Stockton when he was in college and thought he would be a really good pro. Why, because he was really, really fast. Hands, feet, starts, stops. He was a great point guard .
Stockton:
Home Games: In 751 games 8,174 assists, averg. 10.9 assists per game.
Away Games: Across 753 games 7,632 assists, averg. 10.1 assists per game.
Magic:
Home Games: In 448 games, 5,197 assists, averg.11.6 assists per game.
Away Games: Across 458 games 4,954 assists, averg. 10.8 assists per game.
Paul:
Home Games: In 655 games 6,310 assists, averg.9.6 assists per game.
Away Games: Across 643 games 5,802 assists, averg. 9.0 assists per game.
James:
Home Games: In 771 games, 5,848 assists, averg. 7.6 assists per game.
Away Games: Across 745 games 5,364 assists, averg. 7.2 assists per game.
I don’t think the home/away argument is that valid.
To be fair, Jaylen Brown's left hand has greatly improved since that infamous 2023 ECF... Yes, I am a Celtics fan, and your JB comparison hurt a bit😂
For sure!! I will mention that next time I bring up that point, because he’s made it a focus to improve upon, and he deserves credit for that.
Despite no left hand, he's still a Finals MVP 🔥
Payton also had Stockton help induct him into the HOF.
The young people disrespect Stockton, but for me he was the best pure point guard and the best passer of all time
Also, back then an assist was defined as a pass to a player who makes an immediate action towards the basket... now a player can pass where the receiver dribbles several times, makes 2 spin moves and then a fade away jumper and that is consodered an assist in todays game...ridiculous
Stockton and Malone was the bane of my existence growing up. The pick and roll was unguardable, assists are the reason. Yes he had Malone but they were drafted same year and same round. Home cooking aka getting favoritism has been a thing since there have been sports. Stockton is top 5 PG, period.
The dude never missed games. If Chris Paul didn’t miss as many games he would probably have got close to beating him
Durability and deployment dependability are seriously underrated traits of great players. In fact it's arguably the most important player attribute.
You are right about the durability, but look at his averages when he was in his prime. It's not that he played every game, but he was 2 to 3 assists ahead of Magic every season. So Chris Paul, Jason Kidd, or whoever you want to plug in. Playing 82 games a year isn't going to close that gap, and none of those guys are going to go past 12 APG when Stockton was getting 13 to 15.
And those games his missed were probably for his kids wedding and graduation ceremonies 😂
I bet if someone told Gary Payton that John Stockton didn't have a left hand, he'd probably fight you! Me personally, I've seen Stockton driving baseline to the hole, dribbling with his left!
Jaylen Brown can definitely use his left hand now lol
Stockton is by definition the perfect PG, look up the dictionary and you will see a picture if him. No flaws in his game. Hate on him is just simply ignorance
John Stockton was an amazing player to watch in the 90s against Micheal Jordan
There is an interview with Magic stating that Stockton is a better pure point guard then himself. When one of the NBA goats said your better than him at something it should mean something.
My favorite point guard. Nice and efficient.
Having chemistry and playing well with another star player is a positive trait and not all great players have it
You can’t be underrated when you’re in the hall of fame and a top 75!
Disrespect is the atmosphere created by Lebum and his fanbase.
Stockton had 15,806 ast without left hand.
That will be 30k if he had one. Let's just appreciate great's performances.
That’s an insane assumption to double the number lmao
He’s definitely top two PG for me just behind Magic
I hated when the Rockets played the Jazz, because of how effective Stockton was. He could penetrate the paint and get a layup or dish it off for an assist. Hit mid range jumpers and threes as well as get steals on the defensive end.
He was the best point guard Ive ever seen imo.
Chris Paul is definitely the second best, and Steve Francis was the most fun to watch.
I watched Stock a lot in the NBA. All the times I saw him play in pe4rson he was not in Utah. He was just as good in Seattle, Portland and San Francisco as a assist man, a ball mover and a shooter.
All this without a left hand apparently. Imagine if he was as good with his left. Those numbers go up. 😂
Oh… you just said that. I should watch the whole vid first!
He was on the Dream Team. Nuff said
You and cosgrove should collab!
What a terrific analysis!
They just hating on him because he’s a 90s player
It's because CP3 will never clear Stockton. Maybe if he won in 2021, he would've. But he lost to Giannis, so Stockton clears.
This earned a sub. The pasty gangster rocked those short shorts and played consistent fundamentally sound ball. Having to rely on his knowledge, experience and understanding gave him an opportunity that not a lot of players who rely on physicality get; longevity.
Magic, Steph, and Isiah are the only pg's I'd take over Stockton.
Gary Payton and Oscar Robertson would love a word.
They're great too.@drichardbailey
@@drichardbaileybet they would
@@drichardbaileyGary said Stockton was the best.
Steph is a shooting guard. His numbers and his play style all indicate that he is a shooting guard.
You had me worried for a minute 🎉Stockton was that dude
01 baby, Stockton is single handily the best TRADITIONAL PG the league has ever seen then Paul. Don’t even get started with nothing curry related before you saying anything about curry look up the role of a traditional PG. Stockton CP3 Rondo.
Been waiting for this one since the poll 🔥🔥 You should do the 2006 Finals next 💯 I feel it deserves a closer look. Keep up the quality content 🙏
If you have ever played a game of basketball at any level as a white guy. You know what all this is about! I'll just leave it at that.
One of the reason why he has so many also is he never missed games. He was the ultimate Ironman. He only missed 22 games in 19 seasons. Thats crazy
Boys wouldn’t last in them 80s 90s and 2000s era JONNY A 🤣🤣 onna hood !!! 15 Gs worth of Dimes on ya Top
The home vs. away discrepancy in APG for Stockton (or for any team's primary facilitator, for that matter) has to be considered in the context of how many made field goals per game the team has in home vs. away games. If, just as an example, the Jazz during Stockton's career averaged 2 fewer field goals in away games than in home games, then of course he would have slightly fewer APG in away games - it would be strange if he didn't. I have no idea what the exact difference in field goals is - it could be lower or higher than 2 - but I'm sure the Jazz, like any other team, scored slightly less away than at home.
He's a top 5 point guard all time. Magic, Isaiah, Steph, John, and Kidd. EDIT: @9:02 Why isn't Magic featured more when he does amazing stuff like this behind the back pass running full speed handling the ball like it's a guitar in the hands of Eddie Van Halen? He's soooooo underrated these days.
Ummmm…where’s CP3?
@@calebvanberkom5571I'd put Tony Parker over Kidd or even cp3 .
None of them have a finals MVP
Combination of Curry stans hellbent on making Magic look worse to give their guy the title of best PG of all time and Magic's Twitter account being a meme. He also made an ass of himself when he abruptly left the Lakers FO several years ago but I don't think the vast majority of people care much about that anymore.
@ By that logic, Iggy should be over Garnett, Barkley, K. Malone, Robertson, etc…
@@calebvanberkom5571 FMVP is such a dumb biased award, basketball is a team sport for Christ's sake! I always laugh at those Gen Z nerds saying "this guy is better because he has a FMVP". Jaylen Brown(a guy who LEGIT doesnt have a left hand) is also better than Tatum by that logic...
I am just glad to hear that we are gonna get another deep dive into the stats of some of the biggest players. That MJ stats video was amazing.
Great video, Jonny! Nice job in debunking the narratives about Stockton.
I remember seeing the "no left hand" criticism of Jordan too. It's ridiculous. As you said, if that narrative was true, he's even more impressive. The other criticisms also are so ignorant. Basketball is a TEAM sport and I like the examples you listed (of the teammates that other stars had). I'm looking forward to your video about LeBron's assists next month. I wouldn't be surprised at all if there were errors. I like LeBron, but it's like you said - people make mistakes and I don't think we have any eras without imperfections in how stats are counted (because people are imperfect, as you said).
Stockton is an incredible and one of the best point guards to have ever played. He was skilled on both sides of the court. His longevity is incredible and so was his endurance (amazing how he missed very few games) and skills. He was fun to watch.
Great work again in fact checking and debunking the narratives. Have a great day, Jonny!
When Haberstroh started that kerfluffle talking about how Jordan's steals were inflated, I said, "You just opened Pandora's box, and you aren't going to like what you find." Because if we go back for every player and recount their stats, Lebron ain't gonna like that either.
And you can't just pick and choose. Because if you want to cherry pick a few games of Jordan's to cast doubt, then we really need to go back and recount every single damn game, for every player, in order to get accurate stats. But he wants to selectively pick a few of Jordan's to cast doubt on MJ, while thinking that no one would do that for Lebron? Naive.
Mr. Arnett !! Thank you !!!
If John Stockton played with Stephen curry he would have won his 1st NBA title
Stockton is great! I think people don't appreciate him as much because he's not a flashy personality but "Mr reliable" - but that very much so! I find him to be very similar to Pete Sampras in that regard
He's like Tim Duncan in that he's focused on the fundamentals and not very flashy. But those who know, know.
@@shorewall That's not what the opening comment was about. Flashy personality and flashy game are two different things. Stockton didn't have a flashy personality, but his game had flashiness to it.
jonny arnett is a goat
No he ain’t better watch out pal
@@mohamedselan51 id try to not come on the internet to spread hate 🥰🥰
They want to prop up their narrative that those are plumbers era. They thought that we have not plays with fancy dribbling, fancy long shot, etc. We've seen it during Harlem globetrotters games.
J Stockton was a beast. Tuff as nails, excellent playmaker, nice jumper which is what you want in a PG. Records will be untouched
Another great analysis keep this shit up, bro
Can’t wait for the LeBron assist video I’ve been saying his assist number are fishy for years. But also I hope you’d consider looking into the current eras assist keeping in general. They have become waaaaaay to lenient on what qualifies as an assist
I LOVE the NBA storyteller's video on Stockton's lack of a left hand.
"That John Stockton has No Left Video"
It's supposed to be funny by the way, not to be taken too seriously, although there is a grain of truth in there.
John was an ironman, he never missed games. He played hurt. This is why his record was always safe from CP3
Stockton is hated because of him being boring and Karl Malone
Thanks for this video!!! I ADREEEEEEEE in every detail.
Stockton is so underapriciated