S4#7. HH44#1 Tour - Is this the boat of the future? Parallel hybrids that actually work!!!
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 30 เม.ย. 2024
- Here we are at La Grande Motte for the Multihull Boat Show where we do an HH44 showcase and walkthrough tour! Of course this is the boat the Nikki and Jason Wynn have recently started cruising on so let's see if it is all they say!!!
HH Catamarans are repeatedly award winning boats with focus on innovation and eco-friendly systems... We are also honoured with a tour with the HH President and round the world sailor, Seth Hynes who shares his wealth of practical experience!
The innovations just keep on coming, the quality finish is something you need to see for yourself and marvel at the multitude of great ideas and features that make the HHs keep winning all these awards! And of course, no wonder the Wynns are happy with their Hull #4!
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Seth was the best thing that happened to HH he is a heck of a standup guy and beyond super knowledgeable. I miss his Sailing Family TH-cam channel but it’s awesome to see him doing amazing things at HH! Thanks for sharing!!
Couldn't agree more, Tim!
Seth had a great channel before he paused cruising for corporate. He ALWAYS spoke with knowledge and interest. Gutted he stopped You-tubing and took the Presidentee job but wow is that good news for HH. And look, great job, outstanding result.
Thanks Andy for the comment and yes, Seth provided us all with great entertainment and quality sailing on Archer for all those years! He has certainly done well to be President of HH!
Seth’s videos with Elizabeth on Honeymoon, their Lagoon 380, was why we bought our Lagoon 380. I had a chance to interview him for my channel and he’s as gracious and knowledgeable in person as he is online 👍
The best part of HH is the after sale service and support. They work together with buyers to improve the boat and regen and sail capabilities after the handover of the boat. That’s priceless when so many of the production cats get delivered in unsafe conditions and buyers have to fight for warranty repairs.HH is a dream boat and company.
That's good to hear, Sanya, thanks!
Probably the best boat ! So amazingly advanced! The Wynns got one!
Thanks Jero - yes it's clear why the Wynns bought one of these!!!
Way too expensive for a 44 foot catamaran.
Thanks for bringing us on the HH tour. I’ve marveled at the transom fold down door on the sugar scoop. I’ve been watching the Wynn’s just start to enjoy their HH44. Thanks again.
Glad you liked it Mike!
Kudos to HH for pushing the innovation envelope. I truly hope that this hybrid engine becomes standard in all yachts relatively soon.
At $100k I doubt that will happen anytime soon.
We live in hope and still many barriers to overcome. Price should fall as competition rises hopefully!
@@laurapitre5797 A DIY solution with 252 KW of lithium batteries with all the extra protections in the design. A 42 KW DC generator with 40 KW of electric motors 48 volt system and serial hybrid design would coast you 75 thousand Euros for materials. The markup that these builders are making are just insane. Foe 100k the boat builders give you nothing.
Seth really is a fantastic presenter
Yes, he speaks well and understands the issues!
Thanks for an awesome show guys.
HH are killing it.
Is there a more perfect salesman than Seth!
Nice hair doc.
Nice of you say Ahmin! About HH, Seth and my hair!!!
Innovations throughout. Looks like HH is bringing lots of comfort and intelligent design to their customers. Soon to be copied.
Yes good ideas will always be copied! Thanks for the comment Terry!
Hey! I recognize this Seth guy from his years on “Honeymoon” with his bride Elizabeth! Then several years later on his beautiful Red Cat and three wonderful sons! So happy to know that you are still connected to your love sailing! Bravo Seth, Bravo!
Absolutely FX, Seth sailed around the world with his family own Archer and also documented it all on TH-cam! Got his kids into high school for that period of their lives and it will be interesting to see what his sailing adventures look like in the future....
NICE SPEEDY REVIEW , SETH DID A GOOD JOB !
Thanks David! 👍 Glad you liked it!
Wow! Simply amazing. And yea I loved Seth’s Channel back in the day
Yeah me too - it was a great channel sharing the circumnavigation experience!
This was a great vid to present the HH44. Thank you.
Glad you enjoyed it!
Wonderful tour, and a beautiful boat.
Thanks for taking me along!😊
Our pleasure, Warren!
Hi guys, thank you for the tour on the HH. Wonderful looking catamaran. Keep up the good work. Always enjoy your videos. Keep loving each other from Australia
Thanks for your support, mate!
Great layout for a cruising couple, will reserve judgement on the exposed aft helms until getting to sail one though. Interesting that they are already talking about needing bigger engines, there still is no business case to be made for the added expense vs benefit of the hydro-generation but glad HH is pushing the envelope with the new technology. Overall nice job HH!
Yes great for them to push the envelope and test the systems properly!
What a sweet boat, great video.
Thanks Crystal!
Mmm, Yanmar hybrid & AC for 4 days on 1 charge…I think I’m in ❤❤
They have 53kw of battery and it would be interesting to know what ac they use and the btu…
Another great video, John and Eli. I've been watching Seth and his family for many years on all their travels, I think it's a bit of a shame that they are no longer travelling in the world as I quite enjoyed them. I think they will go from strength to strength with HH catamarans. I think they have some great features built into their models. The only problem with HH catamaran is of course the cost. For my money I think I'd still be steering it towards an aluminium hull and seeing if Rafaele could incorporate a couple of those design elements. I think you have the best options as you can beach your hulls in quiet remote estuaries, etc. Stay safe guys, fair 💨's and following 🌊's.
Thanks Garth. Yes Seth provided us all with great entertainment and quality sailing on Archer for all those years! His kids are now at high school and I'm sure his wife is enjoying the new lifestyle too!
Love boat revieuw vids! ;)
Glad you like them,. Quentin and more to come!
I have been watching the Wynns learning their HHz and am very surprised by the propulsion and regeneration systems. I am curious if the new Toyota Hydrogen engine could become a replacement for diesel engines. Thanks for the tour and another great video. 😊
As we have seen on the Wynns channel HH works as a common goal team and they have designed, built and delivered exceptional value to their blue water cruising customers. That's the proven process along with inovation to be successful in any business.
Re: Sail Boat Hydrogen Engine propulsion. Reportedly it was the kiss of death for electric vehicles (EV) when Toyota announced a few months ago that they won't get involved with manufacturing EVs. Toyota designed hydrogen engines are iffy due to the need to transport and store the hydrogen fuel in a liquid form both at the dispensing station and in a high pressure tank withIn a car or truck, IMHO don't think its practical at all for boats. Believe the insurance companies may not like the LNG refill risk, storage leak scene. And LNG has all the same inconvenience of limited availability and no international standard for the valve on those wonderful propane tanks.
@77space-vt8wi as a CT Technician, I have been following the test project at the LA Ports, and so far in the commercial transport industry, the data is promising for an alternate system. I have 0 knowledge of sailing other than what I learned through these channels. Was curious as to potential applications towards that industry as well. We have a company called Edison Motors in BC Camada doing some amazing work with diesel generators and electric drive axels, amazing results for travel time, and tow rating exceeded the tesla truck. Maybe that is the future for the sailing industry. Thanks for the reply. I appreciate the info.
It's a good question Bob and like all new technology, there are many promises and the challenges and down sides are not usually made public until people use them without vested interests. The cost of H2 systems a really big barrier but time will tell if they can become practical for "small" boats as they seem to be more suited to large ships....
Hydrogen embrittlement is an issue, Hydrogen needs to be compressed to 400bar (5801psi) & yes Hydrogen will leak through everything except diamond/graphine!
@jackdbur I have been following g Toyotas Hydrogen Engine development as a CT Mechanic. The current test program with the LA port authorities has been positive for the Commercial Transpor Industry, and I was just curious if the potential would be transferable to the sailing world as an alternative. Thanks for the info
I have no idea why I’m watching this. 💰💰💰
Hopefully you enjoyed the journey though, Diesel!
I really love the design. I wish they would make an island queen bed an option. I know that might interfere with the narrow haul design, but think it might be worth it.
Good point Kirk...
Under motor speed electric or diesel has been a huge disappointment so happy to see they are trying to address the issue. Wish they would’ve gone bigger on the electric and battery like FP but I understand the trade off is weight and speed.
Yes it will be interesting to see how much improvement they get with the modifications recently...
Nice, but it feels cold, not homey, but I guess that's up to the individual to create. Not sure about the sugar scoop design, great for off shore, but how much weight can they support when deployed. UR both looking fabulous😜and relaxed. Can we have some more from Portofino please, I need an update😲 lots hugs xx
Thanks Karlene for your input again! Yes, Portofino is being left out for. a few weeks now and we understand you want to know how your boat and your cabins are coming along!
Hi dear Barefooters 💨❤
I posted, as you know, quite some time ago that I have eyes on the HH44.
In the mean time I discovered the Vaan aluminium cats, R4, R5 and R6. They are absolutely stunning as well with a totally different aesthetics concept, very minimalistic. I have them high on the list too for once I get closer to the buying stage (hard to say the that'l be as yet).
Interesting Jock. I have not seen them directly myself, only the videos. I have heard some serious concerns about welding quality though (from 2 separate sources) so certainly get them checked out properly to see if that is a real problem.
Lot of extra weight to carry 2 engines and the battery system. A little of complication too.
Yes Nice Guy - that is a decision each person has to make and along with the cost balance out the benefits with the downsides.... Still not an obvious winner and many folk are just so focussed on being green, the downsides are not seen.
You guys should review the Stradbroke cats.
We may do so when we get back to Australia around Xmas....
At 3 minutes into the video Seth said something that surprised me. He said that due to their thin, hydrodynamically desirable design which improves sailing performance, the mini keels on the 44 OC version cannot support the weight of the boat. Does this mean that if you anchor in shallow water and the tide goes out , leaving you high and dry, that you will have problems? Will the thin keels slice into a soft bottom until the hull touches the mud and puts pressure on the prop shaft? Is that a problem? If the bottom is hard sand and the keels don't slice into it, will they be damaged? Many cruising boats are able to go aground and dry out at low tide with no major issues. Will this boat have to be treated like a fin keel monohull and only anchored in deep water? What are the limits that must be observed to avoid damage? I see that the keel wings could be damaged during grounding if you have them. When hauling out, does the boat sit only on blocks under the mini keels, or is additional hull support required? Seth please comment further on this topic.
Hi Jack, hopefully Seth will answer but unfortunately I think he would be too busy to read through all the comments on YT. However is usually the rudders that are the most likely to get damaged from drying out and I am sure their approach is to say you cannot take the weight on the mini keels, even if they might hold the weight. This is what Leopard say although Leopards (that have with sacrificial lower sections) have been beached successfully.... I reckon the rudders would be most at risk with all the performance boats, so yes you have to anchor is deep water like the monohulls.
Hence our preference for beachable boats (and shallow draft - but that is another story!)
I thought that is who that was but wasn’t sure !!! Had S/V Archer? He’s the only one who has ever made me even think of a proformance Cat!
If someone said hey I know exactly what you want in a cruising Cat this is it!!!!! If money wasn’t an option… I’d buy hull #2
Hi Joe, yes Seth is the Archer sailor and YTuber - did a great job too! However you will be hull#41, not #2 - there's a queue!
👍
Thanks again Billy!
If you want regen then the ewol prop is your best bet. They make a version that is specific to regen because its locks itself into place.
The price is several times more than the competitors too, I heard...
@@barefootdoctorssailing8567 No not really but the large ones are very expensive. Again this only works if your setup is designed for regen. It us the best prop for that purpose.
@@carlospereira9838 Thanks Carlos! It just adds more cost onto the practical side of regen and hybrids if you need to get that sort of prop...
@@barefootdoctorssailing8567 Its only a bit more expensive vs the Max prop but it works. The problem with regen with other props is that the regen stops and starts with the wave crests there is no locking in the regen mode. The ewol prop solves this issue.
I assume you can hydro-generate on anchor if there is a strong enough current? Is this accurate?
No I think that is nonsense info - sorry! Regen usually only starts at 6 knots, better at 8+ so it would be unlikely to ever be anchored in that strength of current....
Would be super great if you guys could do a review for the Vaan R4 which is only €522.5 thousand for a top quality cat a far as I know to date. Made in The Netherlands where many high quality aluminium yacht are made.
Hi Jock, please send me your email address to DrJOHNmcintosh@ tpg.com.au so I can send you information privately about this. All lower case…
Groovy ship. Bummer there is no place for drinks or food on either side of the bed. I mean, where do you put your coffee mug when your sitting in bed?
Hi Frog lips! Yes, this is a common problem with the narrow hulls of most of the performance cats....
As I’ve previously commented with any system you always look at where are the single points of failure. In a parallel propulsion system how does the that clutch between the two fail? Does it lock up the system?
Good question and I have emailed Betamarine and Hybrid Marine and they both refuse to answer any questions!!! They say ask Antares and HH - it's unbelievable!
@@barefootdoctorssailing8567 these are all questions that you and your builder should be having. I've never designed a boat's power system. My experience is with smaller data center type facilities that must run 24/7 365 otherwise really bad things happen (not just finical things).
@@barefootdoctorssailing8567 Its a mechanical clutch it is the best system for parallel hybrid I have seen. Its nothing more than a standard kubota industrial engine with a custom heat exchanger and a custom mechanical clutch.
@@carlospereira9838 Thanks again Carlos!
@@barefootdoctorssailing8567 Its a nice simple system but way over priced. I am sure you can copy the system for a fraction of the price.
I follow the wynns too and I’m surprised that they not really give too much from their new boat out about what the engine really is capable …?!
they have and said the speed with the motor is one of the major downsides. but that might be resolved
Thanks for the comment Juergen and yes more specifics on the actual outputs from hydro-regen and boat speeds would be good but I'm sure they will share more specifics in time as they are still just getting used to sailing a high performance cat that is very different from a Leopard 46!
Yes I heard it was resolved too!
Great yacht, but the black shroud behind the mast blocks the view. WHY!!!! Put glass their to improve the important forward facing view.
Thanks for the input AORD...
Nice setup, love the electric concept, but I am not a fan of the non-sugar scoops.
Yes some does and against , I guess . Cheers for your ongoing support and for being the first to comment this episode !! 👍
I think they would be great on passages and rough seas. Especially with children or pets.
The HH is a nice boat but very expensive for its size and space considering that they make this in China where the labor rates are 1/5 of Europe.
Thanks Carlos!
The view through the saloon design from the hems i would imagine will be somewhat problematic especially in bad weather or colder climbs .. Because you will need to close off the living area and deal with the refraction between two layers of glass and the conflicting illumination needs of the helms person and the other persons aboard trying to work, cook, care for kids or need lighting. 🤔
The versa helm is usufull but i wonder how much protection is offered in foul weather or temperate zones.
The lifting scoop steps and side doors are good ideas as well.
As for the hull GRP and Carbon have the same problems in terms of sustainability and environmental and health impacts.
The hybrid system i dont see as that flexible because the brushless electric motors are the least likely element to fail.. where the conventional ICE motors still there needing its servicing and producing the fumes waste gas, noise and contaminating the water and the air.
If the electronics break down? Well how is the modern diesel engine going to start and run let alone respond to the controls and feed back the engine data.
Try the positive point i get is the need to explore and develope the propellor system for all boats and the realisation that to get the best out of electric power you need a different propellor... and a bit like with aircraft in WW2 the need is critical to develope variable pitch propellors to get the best out of the forms of propulsion... and regeneration.
The drag generated by props in regeneration mode seldom reduces speed under sail by more than @half a knot.
Concerning helm position and getting out of the elements. I think with twin helms and the ability to move the wheel in three different positions you should be OK for most situations. Obviously everything is a tradeoff. The solar panels on the roof custom designed for the shape of the roof (not just rectangles) is nice and somewhat justifies not having an elevated helm.
All good points Clive. For us, we do like being able to close off the steering position because when it is really foul (lightning storm of 50knots recently, or mid Atlantic 50 knots storm) you will be lashed with rain, sea water and wind if you are not protected. But then there are always trade-offs and personal choices to be made...
@@barefootdoctorssailing8567 A boat is one word compromise. To get something you have to give up something at least in the 50 foot range of boats.
-I only find 2 issues: price & forward guests cabin...all others are perfect.
-HH are the most expensive off all the direct competition,like Balance,Windelo,ORC,Outremer,Neel,Portofino,Odissea or G-force...they are same price right there with Gunboat and Mcconaghy and i belive should not.
-As he say,build in China,imagine if was build in Europe or other place,they would ask double or triple,
-This HH 44 OC (not even sc) made in Eu would cost same like Gunboat 68 :)))))))))))))
-Too much margin on those products,but the problem is not the seller,the problem is the buyer that pays that .
As for the Odisea 48 their advertised weights are not correct unless they are using 3 and 4 mm plate which makes the boat a bit too light. I would have designed with 5 and 6 mm plate.
Hi DD, I don't have all those figures at my fingertips and it's really hard to compare because you need to see what is included and what are add on options. The Portofino is complete with everything included and then only fine detailed choices to add - but in some brands, even the anchor is "Optional"....
@@barefootdoctorssailing8567 You are correct even the mast and standing and running rigging are not included in the figures of some of the boat builders. In my 49 foot design the REAL light displacement comes to 12 to 12.5 metric tons. The Odisea figures are way off unless they are using 3mm and 4mm plate like the cyber mumby that it is based on which makes the hull really thin. My 49 foot design is 5mm and 6mm plate.
So very similar to the Antares 44……
Yes, Antares has been using Betamarine for many years now!
Arctic Antarctic ?
Both are cold with icebergs!!!
@@barefootdoctorssailing8567 will the carbon fiber crack? Won 't it fall apart ? Won 't you freeze ?
WTF a 10kw electric motor is only 13HP...
Indeed - I am sure that the Wynns will share what speeds and what power they get with those engines. I have heard that they use the engines to great effect for quick power needs like taking, reefing, anchoring and going into ports... Not sure about the long term motoring efficiency though.
That is correct the max speed you are going to get is 5 knots which is what it is exactly designed for.
1.5 Cool Million. 20 yr mortgage, about $8,000 a month. I don't see how some You-Tubers do it. PLUS you have to eat! I have an RV. When mechanics or Campgrounds hear you have a nice RV, prices mysteriously increase. To get a simple alignment on my RV, I can't go to Les Schwab, and get a $60 alignment...I have to got to the Kenworth Dealership, and pay their guys $250 an HOUR.
When a marina sees a HH44 pull in, they see $$$$$$.
Hi DS, thanks for your comments and we have sailed with a 25 foot monohull to a 50 foot Leopard so far. Unfortunately if you are sailing ANY boat, folk assume you have money, marina cost are extortionate and don't care about the value of your boat and boat gear is bumped up in price because of that bias. When we built our 42 foot performance cat, if I could buy gear (like pipe, valves, switches etc) from farming shops the price was often half. so I am sure whether you have a $1.5M HH or a $20K monohull, other folk will just see $$$$ as you say!
Life is a bit sad in that regard....
PS a mortgage for anything over 20 years will result in you paying about 300% more than the value of the time due to interest overt that time. Instead delay the purchase for 7-10 years and put that $8000 /month into a high interest bearing account or investments and buy the HH in 8 years or so!
@DS
Why do you ASSume most buyers don't have a deposit?
Not many youtubers earn enough from their content to buy such a vessel.
#berealistic
@@barefootdoctorssailing8567 Very good advice from a very clever couple.
versa helm patented by balance.....lol
According to the info I have, the term “Versa-helm” refers to a clutch mechanism used in boat steering systems to enhance control and reduce the impact of external forces on the steering wheel. While it is not explicitly patented as a standalone concept, it is an integral part of certain boat designs. While the moveable steering column is what is commonly referred to as the versa-helm, I'm not sure that that is the patented item. I would think that a simple repositionable steering column isn't patentable but I could certainly be wrong. However, the Alibi 54 has this feature in their 2011 cat and Balance was founded in 2013. Balance gets the notoriety but it obviously existed before they utilized this system.
Maybe he patented the word but the swinging helms you can buy from jeffa, typical loudmoud salesman tactic tho.
Yes controversial subject. I certainly heard that system used prior to Balance cats using it and they certainly do not have any rights over it. But Phil at Balance does try to claim it as "theirs"!
Poor Wynns are stuck with underpowered boat. Still dont see the value of hybrid proplusion.
🤔❌
It depends on the type of hybrid but .. as last weeks windelo tour showed ... You dont need the penalty's of a propulsive deisel .. whilst saving 30 % of fuel burn by powering from electric motors ... If needed ... from a smaller generator running only at its Stoichiometric optimum... basicly constant speed load therefore fuel burn and minimal polution level. So it only needs minimal maintenance.
You dont need clutches gearboxes & lubricants... so you can bin that lot ..incl the costs and Wt. and just replace it with a switch..
You can also put an electric motor in any number of positions including underwater or a totally retractable and steerable pod.
It has worked with larger commercial vessels for decades and now you even have tugs using it...
The polution from a current marine diesel is 80 times greater than that from a car or van with a similar size engine.. and two strokes are way, way beyond that. 🤷🏻 That goes into the water and the air.
I havent even started to include the medically known health effects of air pollution on adults children and developing babies.
Hybrids are OK because they remove the need to have generators on board. Serial hybrid if designed correctly is far superior however you must have a very large battery bank and is limited KW on the 48v system
@@carlospereira9838
The fact that modern vessels are so electrical power hungry and a lot of builders and designers are including Aircon and electric cooking along with washing machines for cruisers means that house battery systems need to be pretty large
anyway... To run electric motors needs more but not that much.. and if you look up Edison motors Topsey hybrid electric logging truck ..you will see even hauling a vast load over unmade roads it actually needed a smaller lighter pack and was lighter than the Tesla trucks it was created to replace.
As well as to be more service in BC Columbia's logging roll.
It uses a Cat genset to power the double electric motor driven live Axel's. No geaboxes, clutches needed, no drive shafts. Tons saved in wt and transmission losses. Also less to wear and break.
This system trys to keep ICE's and adds Electrics and a clutch and drive belt and pullys .. all of which adds more wt more bulk complexity and noise to come from wearing long term. Also maintainance costs ..
Ditch the two ICE drive motors and you simplify .. you can have two more efficient Lighter quieter cleaner diesel or other fuel generators located anywhere .. or one lager generator... Or one larger and one smaller. .. you still have Solar ..regen under sail and a generator system you can run off more efficiently . If you have two full running capacity generators they will still be lighter and more fuel efficient than direct drive or this system.
That's with the current old style piston ICE poppet valve engines.
With the simpler smaller lighter simpler more efficient emerging generator engines you can reduce the wt and space needed to 20% of the present designs.
You can also run more powerful electric motors at a reduced load but with extra power/speed in reserve.
I have been researching the whole hybrid topic, in conjunction with a major catamaran builder, in part because I wanted to outfit my soon to be delivered cat with hybrid propulsion. The conclusion we came down to is: that there is no net benefit (including environmental) yet it adds a lot of complexity and extra reliability/maintenance issues. The technology is not there yet and wont be for some time. My day job is developing technology for EV and Solar applications, so I was really keen on going this route, but when we peeled the onion away, and looked at real scenarios that I have experienced and other sailors with similar cats, it didnt make sense. I will publish our analysis and reasoning soon.
Love you guys but please, PLEASE, let him answer before speaking over him by saying "yes..yes.. huy huy yep...... Right.. right yep yep yep,,,,,,yep.. right..." I know that it is a nervous habit that you have developed and it probably took hold over your life, but try to cut back on it. It is tough to listen to and must be annoying to the person being interviewed. Otherwise a very good interview. To break this bad habit, force yourself to not speak until he is finished speaking - even if it seems like forever. Just be quiet. Then ask the next question.. Rinse and repeat. Eventually you will become a much better interviewer.
Thanks for the advice Colleen and you are right! I was even irritated myself when I was editing it... My enthusiasm is so hard to suppress but I will practice "Zipping it"!
@@barefootdoctorssailing8567 OH MY UNIVERSE, did u just say ur gonna zip it, I think I need to see a Dr.