Spectrum thread: robertsspaceindustries.com/spectrum/community/SC/forum/3/thread/ares-inferno-nerfed-in-the-ptu/463304 Two problems/bugs: 1. All ballistic guns over heat way too quickly in the current 4.0 PTU patch 2. Ships are taking too much damage before destroyed
That is true, however a normal gatling uses air cooling. That doesn't work in space. There is nothing stopping it from being liquid cooled but the pumps would be nasty.
@@BetterThanLifeProd It seems you are not familiar with radiative and conductive heat transfer. In space vacuum only the convective heat transfer component is missing. And with rising temperatures the other two take most of the transfer load.
@@patrickwenzlik Conductive heat requires a medium, in a vacuum there is no medium. Radiative heat in space is just light and isn't very efficient by itself.
@@BetterThanLifeProd A three barrelled cannon would still take 3x longer to reach overheat compared to a single barrel by simple virtue of thermal mass, it would also cool down 3x faster as radiative heat dissipation is a function of surface area.
@JagHiroshi one would think in year 13 and with more than 770 million dollars, a game studio should have a pretty good idea how the flight model, ship combat, weapons, components and over all balance should be. Actually, I would say in year 3 or 4. But here we have CIG, still throwing sh!t at walls and check what sticks, with no plan. no concept, no idea what they are doing.
There is no "balancing"... Only adjusting values in a way that sells more current ships, and it's SUPER obvious, they don't even care to hide it anymore because they know we'll still buy their shit... Well, I haven't spent money on SC in over 2 years now, but you get my drift... Other people...
Let me get this straight: One person edits a value, made a mistake, doesn't check it, doesn't test it, none of his colleagues do, no supervisors do. Is this a joke? A $800 mill project after 12 years? What is going on?
Meanwhile, F7c owners who haven't been able to attach nose or ball turrets since October with no word from CIG on whether that's a bug or intentional nerf 💀
AFAIK they clarified ball turrets was a bug (since you can buy some in shop that you should be able to use/swap as it's modular) and that the nose turret not working is intentional as it's supposed to be F7C-M Mk2 and F7A only.
@@hollowedone nose turret yea but u should still be able to mount a s3 gun in that spot.. even the nose of the f7a is locked out so u cant remove the turret and put just a gun
"look how they massacred my boy" this kinda quote suits these days more than "happy holiday"... Inferno is just a simple burning match now... My hope for this game to reach its perfection and achieve GOTY just died, when I heard of the Guardian about 2 years ago I was so hyped it made me start to dream about the Star Wars related fleet in SC, and I was doing my job as security wingman against Constellation class and larger ships as Inferno pilot by half of the year, and now the guardian is the reason why my beloved ship got nerfed so hard I can say it's drop from size 7 ballistic to size 3, even worse than intrepid... And now when my SW fleet is almost complete I'm considering selling everything and moving forward playing something else.
Proper software companies have AUTOMATIC TESTING where dumb stuff like this literally couldn't happen... But this is CIG, so we'll be in the EXACT same spot 13 years from now, those still with us then...
CIG needs to get it together, ballistics have been a joke for soooo long and when they finally made them a viable option they killed them with low ammo count, then they increased it but then increase shields ballistic absorption rate and added a blanket armor rating reducing ballistic damage across everything...... so ballistic damaged is reduced by shields and hull meanwhile lasers have been put back into S class status. its clear now they want to copy Capacitor stats and apply them to ballistics so the TTK is identical.... well we better get magical unlimited ammo CIG at this point id rather CIG give all weapons in each size the same stats across them all. then picking a certain manufacture would just be purely cosmetic. CIG will never learn to balance anything to not be META they just keep moving the flavor of the month around and call it progress
Well hopefully it will be fixed before live. Waiting for now Camural to give your thoughts on the most recent change. All military grade equipment and some stealth will no longer be available to buy in game at any shops, that's the latest I heard.
The fundamental problem is poor leadership. Their leadership was so poor that the roadmap they used a year to develop completely failed within three months of release. This roadmap was in the 8th year of the project when they were a long established and very large studio with extremely generous funding, yet they chose to blame their inability to plan on the people who noticed, not the people who had created the problems. To this day, Erin Roberts remains the studio head who can't plan and above him is the famous micromanager Chris, his brother. The board is controlled by the Robert's family so there's nobody who can force them to deliver, which is the only way any of Chris past games ever made it out.
Didn't CIG recently laid off some of their QC staff ? Well, not that that changes the fact they've been making mistakes you shouldn't be making in the 1st place in the previous years. But it's pretty obvious CIG doesn't care about much in general.
i mean why pay QA when they have US to do it for them and PAY THEM money to do it. i think a shiiiit ton more need to be let go. and bring back the ppl who actually knew what they was doing back in the day... they fired the OG's to hire CHEAPER ppl who havent got a clue
This happens far to often, looking at the Q-Fuel values we have seen on some ships in the past, where they had more q-fuel than the size of the ship... Where is the QA pass?
CIG developpement logic is stupid. They want excel spreadsheet and just change one value to balance all weapons at once. But it doesnt works like that. A multitubes guns should not heat has fast a single tube one. 3 tubes = 3 times longuer heating time and faster cooling. 6 tubes = 6 times longuer heating time and faster cooling. I'm 100% certain they balance gatling guns and other multitubes guns as if they were single tubes weapons. 100% sure of it. Because they are that bad at designing stuff.
What's wild is how people care about these details. When SC eventually implodes, all that will be discussed is the broader issues (mis-management etc.).
The writing is already on the wall and several feet tall. We're in year 13 of development with nearly a billion USD spent and they have released zero of their two games. What is out is still rough alpha quality with fundamental bugs that should have been fixed by year two or three, and as usual their latest super technology has failed to fix the basic bugs while they keep cutting down the scope expected for 1.0 (goodbye NPC crew! we bought you but CIG didn't feel like delivering).
I got a better Idea. How about they hold off making any changes till all the ships that they want at a 1.0 launch are Deliverable. Then play tested by us give our feedback we're not stupid. Before any nerfing is done. Then there is CIG's insane notion that they don't want any meta ships, items, armor and so forth. Now we get a tier system 1 - 5 to upgrade things awesome sounds like fun however one problem. Wouldn't tier 5 Items of any type be a Meta to chase? I'm designing my own Version of fantasy RPG tabletop game like D&D & Pathfinder, and I have an outline of what I want from the weak things to the Op. Balancing should be small tweaks in the end when completed. it something you do when you have a core Game and mechanics that's polished. Balance is what beta should set out to do. Moving the goalposts not cool. A small example to toss out if my mind set was a Ship designer dev. I got ships that class in sizes from 1- 6. Size 1 the Smallest and Size 6 are Capitol ships, Ok now I need rules that govern all designs, Brands, Ship roles moving forward. So, the reasoning be hide having design rules is to aid in as we as framing out balance well in advance. Because We will set a limit, a baseline. so, all S1 Ships limits would look like this typically size 1 Components with a size Cap of S2, Weapons S3 , Missiles S2, Chaff & Flares count Low. Is as good as it gets for now in that class category. However, outliers get tricky and still need to make sense. Or another example would be that at some point S4 Ships start to get a Single Mini-Reactor or at best A twin mini reactors making Hydrogen not a heavy focus anymore when in real space. A distinction of what a class 4 gets you and nearly unlimited power. You still would have a Hydrogen Pool. 1- x SCU. Seams broken However, the small cost sink on an advantage like this can be a few things like stations requiring routine reactor inspections $$ or fuel change /cost at based on a run time. 20 years on nuclear ships so fuel not an issue. The other advantage a reactor opens you up to is much, much larger Qt Capacity's and that these ships have superior ranges because they have more QT fuel resources for travel. The value of Medium Ships = more runs less gassing up. At the trade of regulatory costs and need to be kept in good order.
17 seconds of clean shots on a Gladius with an Inferno...good luck with that. It could be 17.000 sec, wouldn't make a difference. With this current TTK ballistics are pretty much obsolete at this point.
@stefensmith9522 1. Getting rid of heat in space, assuming far away from a star, is actually not easy. It is possible of course but I could write an hour long article about it. 2. Star Citizen is a game with very little physics anyway. Star Citizen is a 99% magic game, so it is fine for CIG to do whatever they want (But please CIG stop calling Star Citizen a space sim).
In the mean time, I dont give a FOK about SC! Tired of having to deal with all the BS about a eye candy fluff marketing pre alpha tech demo, that just keep getting worse by each freaking patch! No stress, just playing Day Z and NMS, will not even bother Dloading when it is released into PU, I would guess end of this week! Will just keep on watching CAMURAL´s vids on progress......hmm...or come to think of it....retrogression of SC!
Melt, melt and melt to buy newer shiny ships to play with and no new money spent anymore. SC is never going to be released for more years than I care to think about. So just have fun with it and melt away and play with newer ships. Don't ever take the game seriously or believe what they say.
@Helstren what do you mean? Can you please be a bit more specific? If you want to challenge my statement: "CIG never checks their numbers, no colleagues and supervisors checking XMLs or numbers" I know this for a fact. This goes on for at least 9 years by now. Everyone can make mistakes, I make mistakes, but CIG seems very unprofessional, especially with so much money.
@Helstren this is a perfect example: Yogi changing values, not checking what he did, not doing any tests. No one else checking his changes and it goes onto the PTU. This happens all the time with CIG, even in live patches.
Spectrum thread: robertsspaceindustries.com/spectrum/community/SC/forum/3/thread/ares-inferno-nerfed-in-the-ptu/463304
Two problems/bugs:
1. All ballistic guns over heat way too quickly in the current 4.0 PTU patch
2. Ships are taking too much damage before destroyed
Someone tell CIG that the idea of a gatling cannon is to spread the heat over several barrels to avoid... well... overheating too quickly.
This guy gets it
That is true, however a normal gatling uses air cooling. That doesn't work in space. There is nothing stopping it from being liquid cooled but the pumps would be nasty.
@@BetterThanLifeProd It seems you are not familiar with radiative and conductive heat transfer. In space vacuum only the convective heat transfer component is missing. And with rising temperatures the other two take most of the transfer load.
@@patrickwenzlik Conductive heat requires a medium, in a vacuum there is no medium. Radiative heat in space is just light and isn't very efficient by itself.
@@BetterThanLifeProd A three barrelled cannon would still take 3x longer to reach overheat compared to a single barrel by simple virtue of thermal mass, it would also cool down 3x faster as radiative heat dissipation is a function of surface area.
The right hand doesn't know what the left hand is doing but it also doesn't know what the right hand is doing apparently.
I'm glad he came out to discuss this. Ship balancing and nerfing are killing this game for me at the moment. CIG need to get a grip.
@JagHiroshi one would think in year 13 and with more than 770 million dollars, a game studio should have a pretty good idea how the flight model, ship combat, weapons, components and over all balance should be. Actually, I would say in year 3 or 4.
But here we have CIG, still throwing sh!t at walls and check what sticks, with no plan. no concept, no idea what they are doing.
There is no "balancing"... Only adjusting values in a way that sells more current ships, and it's SUPER obvious, they don't even care to hide it anymore because they know we'll still buy their shit... Well, I haven't spent money on SC in over 2 years now, but you get my drift... Other people...
Sandy saw the backlash coming and told her puppy to make excuses.
The real problem with ballistics is npc’s have infinite ballistic capabilities and they have no cool down
Let me get this straight: One person edits a value, made a mistake, doesn't check it, doesn't test it, none of his colleagues do, no supervisors do.
Is this a joke?
A $800 mill project after 12 years?
What is going on?
I guess at thos point it's more efficient to wait for the enemies ship to run out of fuel than using the Inferno
They changed and hoped that no one would notice or complain!
Meanwhile, F7c owners who haven't been able to attach nose or ball turrets since October with no word from CIG on whether that's a bug or intentional nerf 💀
AFAIK they clarified ball turrets was a bug (since you can buy some in shop that you should be able to use/swap as it's modular) and that the nose turret not working is intentional as it's supposed to be F7C-M Mk2 and F7A only.
@@hollowedone nose turret yea but u should still be able to mount a s3 gun in that spot.. even the nose of the f7a is locked out so u cant remove the turret and put just a gun
I don't mind ships taking longer to get destroyed. Nerfing for marketing purposes on the other hand is disgusting.
Hello there! I'm the Redeemer, now with the rage reduced to same as a Pisces! 👋
Just found out about you from Bored Gamer. So glad he mentioned you. Cannot wait to look at your content.
@mikegilkey when was this? Do you have a link?
"look how they massacred my boy" this kinda quote suits these days more than "happy holiday"... Inferno is just a simple burning match now... My hope for this game to reach its perfection and achieve GOTY just died, when I heard of the Guardian about 2 years ago I was so hyped it made me start to dream about the Star Wars related fleet in SC, and I was doing my job as security wingman against Constellation class and larger ships as Inferno pilot by half of the year, and now the guardian is the reason why my beloved ship got nerfed so hard I can say it's drop from size 7 ballistic to size 3, even worse than intrepid... And now when my SW fleet is almost complete I'm considering selling everything and moving forward playing something else.
Proper software companies have AUTOMATIC TESTING where dumb stuff like this literally couldn't happen... But this is CIG, so we'll be in the EXACT same spot 13 years from now, those still with us then...
They should have watch dogs for missiosn, items, hangars, elevators etc. Like any normal software. But no.
Inferno going down in flames.
But it's an alpha! This is fine!
totally not fine at this stage.
that guy needs to go back to sound and fumble it there.
Remember what J.Crew said, “time to disable” or some BS like that.
CIG needs to get it together, ballistics have been a joke for soooo long and when they finally made them a viable option they killed them with low ammo count, then they increased it but then increase shields ballistic absorption rate and added a blanket armor rating reducing ballistic damage across everything...... so ballistic damaged is reduced by shields and hull meanwhile lasers have been put back into S class status.
its clear now they want to copy Capacitor stats and apply them to ballistics so the TTK is identical.... well we better get magical unlimited ammo CIG
at this point id rather CIG give all weapons in each size the same stats across them all. then picking a certain manufacture would just be purely cosmetic. CIG will never learn to balance anything to not be META they just keep moving the flavor of the month around and call it progress
Well hopefully it will be fixed before live. Waiting for now Camural to give your thoughts on the most recent change. All military grade equipment and some stealth will no longer be available to buy in game at any shops, that's the latest I heard.
How are these clowns so insanely incompetent? It must be feel like shit knowing you work for the worse gaming company on Earth. Lolololol
The fundamental problem is poor leadership. Their leadership was so poor that the roadmap they used a year to develop completely failed within three months of release. This roadmap was in the 8th year of the project when they were a long established and very large studio with extremely generous funding, yet they chose to blame their inability to plan on the people who noticed, not the people who had created the problems. To this day, Erin Roberts remains the studio head who can't plan and above him is the famous micromanager Chris, his brother. The board is controlled by the Robert's family so there's nobody who can force them to deliver, which is the only way any of Chris past games ever made it out.
I mean, they did just let go a bunch of Q/A employer so... This makes sense
Didn't CIG recently laid off some of their QC staff ? Well, not that that changes the fact they've been making mistakes you shouldn't be making in the 1st place in the previous years. But it's pretty obvious CIG doesn't care about much in general.
there is certainly some staff that needs to be let go, bu it wasn't quality control.
though, those guys needed some basic training themselves too.
i mean why pay QA when they have US to do it for them and PAY THEM money to do it. i think a shiiiit ton more need to be let go. and bring back the ppl who actually knew what they was doing back in the day... they fired the OG's to hire CHEAPER ppl who havent got a clue
When you said xml's i had a flasback to many many years ago using notepad++ to do mass edits :P
This happens far to often, looking at the Q-Fuel values we have seen on some ships in the past, where they had more q-fuel than the size of the ship... Where is the QA pass?
CIG developpement logic is stupid. They want excel spreadsheet and just change one value to balance all weapons at once. But it doesnt works like that.
A multitubes guns should not heat has fast a single tube one. 3 tubes = 3 times longuer heating time and faster cooling. 6 tubes = 6 times longuer heating time and faster cooling.
I'm 100% certain they balance gatling guns and other multitubes guns as if they were single tubes weapons. 100% sure of it. Because they are that bad at designing stuff.
CIG = amateurs
Completely Incompetent Games
They suck at perceiving what needs to be balanced and they suck even more at deciding how to address the dumb problems they have.
Fair enough mistakes can happen. While checking the mistakes, please take a zero off the new re stock costs? They also have the incorrect value!
@2:35 Camural, you always said you wanted aliens in the game - well here you go!
what is Yogi doing. i wish we had the old devs. smh
What's wild is how people care about these details. When SC eventually implodes, all that will be discussed is the broader issues (mis-management etc.).
Sure, but these are the receipts which show the broad issues. This is the evidence.
The writing is already on the wall and several feet tall. We're in year 13 of development with nearly a billion USD spent and they have released zero of their two games. What is out is still rough alpha quality with fundamental bugs that should have been fixed by year two or three, and as usual their latest super technology has failed to fix the basic bugs while they keep cutting down the scope expected for 1.0 (goodbye NPC crew! we bought you but CIG didn't feel like delivering).
I got a better Idea. How about they hold off making any changes till all the ships that they want at a 1.0 launch are Deliverable. Then play tested by us give our feedback we're not stupid. Before any nerfing is done. Then there is CIG's insane notion that they don't want any meta ships, items, armor and so forth. Now we get a tier system 1 - 5 to upgrade things awesome sounds like fun however one problem. Wouldn't tier 5 Items of any type be a Meta to chase?
I'm designing my own Version of fantasy RPG tabletop game like D&D & Pathfinder, and I have an outline of what I want from the weak things to the Op. Balancing should be small tweaks in the end when completed. it something you do when you have a core Game and mechanics that's polished. Balance is what beta should set out to do. Moving the goalposts not cool.
A small example to toss out if my mind set was a Ship designer dev.
I got ships that class in sizes from 1- 6. Size 1 the Smallest and Size 6 are Capitol ships,
Ok now I need rules that govern all designs, Brands, Ship roles moving forward. So, the reasoning be hide having design rules is to aid in as we as framing out balance well in advance. Because We will set a limit, a baseline. so, all S1 Ships limits would look like this typically size 1 Components with a size Cap of S2, Weapons S3 , Missiles S2, Chaff & Flares count Low. Is as good as it gets for now in that class category. However, outliers get tricky and still need to make sense.
Or another example would be that at some point S4 Ships start to get a Single Mini-Reactor or at best A twin mini reactors making Hydrogen not a heavy focus anymore when in real space. A distinction of what a class 4 gets you and nearly unlimited power. You still would have a Hydrogen Pool. 1- x SCU. Seams broken However, the small cost sink on an advantage like this can be a few things like stations requiring routine reactor inspections $$ or fuel change /cost at based on a run time. 20 years on nuclear ships so fuel not an issue. The other advantage a reactor opens you up to is much, much larger Qt Capacity's and that these ships have superior ranges because they have more QT fuel resources for travel. The value of Medium Ships = more runs less gassing up. At the trade of regulatory costs and need to be kept in good order.
17 seconds of clean shots on a Gladius with an Inferno...good luck with that. It could be 17.000 sec, wouldn't make a difference. With this current TTK ballistics are pretty much obsolete at this point.
Didn't CIG just fire some quality testers? Not that there weren't some bugs that got through before but this certainly won't help.
Oh but it supposed to kill big ships Cam! How will it do this if it can't even destroy a gladius? It's a joke right?
How does CIG explain a space gun overheating in space where temps are around -270°c? 😂
@stefensmith9522
1. Getting rid of heat in space, assuming far away from a star, is actually not easy. It is possible of course but I could write an hour long article about it.
2. Star Citizen is a game with very little physics anyway. Star Citizen is a 99% magic game, so it is fine for CIG to do whatever they want (But please CIG stop calling Star Citizen a space sim).
TLDR in a vacuum there's nothing to transfer heat too directly like air, moisture etc
CIG become so incompetent for balancing
Ohh yeah Yogi again.
In the mean time, I dont give a FOK about SC! Tired of having to deal with all the BS about a eye candy fluff marketing pre alpha tech demo, that just keep getting worse by each freaking patch!
No stress, just playing Day Z and NMS, will not even bother Dloading when it is released into PU, I would guess end of this week! Will just keep on watching CAMURAL´s vids on progress......hmm...or come to think of it....retrogression of SC!
Melt, melt and melt to buy newer shiny ships to play with and no new money spent anymore. SC is never going to be released for more years than I care to think about. So just have fun with it and melt away and play with newer ships. Don't ever take the game seriously or believe what they say.
Yogi is trash
Saying that don't do any tests on the pTu, common dude.
@Helstren what do you mean? Can you please be a bit more specific?
If you want to challenge my statement: "CIG never checks their numbers, no colleagues and supervisors checking XMLs or numbers" I know this for a fact. This goes on for at least 9 years by now.
Everyone can make mistakes, I make mistakes, but CIG seems very unprofessional, especially with so much money.
@Helstren this is a perfect example: Yogi changing values, not checking what he did, not doing any tests. No one else checking his changes and it goes onto the PTU.
This happens all the time with CIG, even in live patches.