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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 30 ก.ย. 2024
- We're making another episode of our podcast available on youtube! Deep in the Rising Star Cave system lies a mystery of paleoanthropology: a chamber filled with the bones of Homo naledi.
Check out Eons: Mysteries of Deep Time wherever you get your podcasts!
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Caves are evolving systems. Those chambers who are difficult to reach today could have been easier to access in the distant past, through passages that have since disappeared. It still wouldn't explain what those individuals were doing in there, but it would explain _how_ they were getting in.
True
Francois Lacombe - They are also slightly smaller than modern humans making this really epic cave adventure somewhat less challenging for them. But that terrible, oppressive darkness!
Lee Berger lost a lot of weight to try to get into the cave. He got stuck for a while, but he found smoke deposits on some of the cave ceilings. Possibly Homo Naledi used fire for lighting their way into the caves.
Of course. They probably could see in the dark only about as well as we can, and they didn't have flashlights
They also FOUND a lot of ash and animal bones in new discovered chamber but no stone tools. New discovery announced less than a month ago
@@avelkm do you have a link to more info by any chance?
@@EricRoberts2112Not published yet; he teased it in a lecture/lecture series, I think. It’s nice to see what is coming, but we can’t rely on something that isn’t yet published.
@@DneilB007 cool. Was that lecture on video or something you were present for. The only videos I found of his lectures was an older one, unfortunately.
I'm sorry but why is it "far fetched"?? Even ants move their dead to specific "graveyards" to get them out of the way. An animal doesn't need to civilised to get rid of dead bodies. And the evidence is overwhelming. I literally came to the conclusion the bodies were placed there within the first minute of the video. Seems the only issue here is anthropologists making unfounded assumptions about what is and isn't possible, blinding them to the obvious.
Nope! Not a chance. Never gonna happen. There is NO WAY I'm going through gaps that small. I'd panic like a dog with his head stuck in a fence within 2 minutes. Just listening to the first couple of minutes without hyper-ventilating was a chore.
I feel you! Whatever I’m watching, I’m living in my head. I’d panic just watching. Especially on this subject of tight squeezes a claustrophobia.
Check out caveman hikes on youtube
I'm thinking since they had a developed cerebral cortex, they had a protoculture. These Naledi were interred in this cave, no doubt about it.
* *Takes dog off leash* *
"Go, boy. Have fun"
Someone has to go and its you. Stop making excuses.
I am put in mind of the boys football team that was trapped in caves in Thailand not so long ago. Pushed further and further into the caves by rising waters. Thankfully, the boys and their young coach came out alive, but that took the whole modern world’s efforts. Even so, one rescuer lost his life. Had it turned out more badly, perhaps in a different cave system, there may once again have been a cave full of bones deep within the mountain for future palaeontologists to ponder.
Oh and you know those future scientists would've been soooo quick to claim we sacrificed them in some religious ceremony too lol
@Uncharged Pickles I really think that's just scientists pre 1940. At the very least in the modern age I dont think we really default to fantastical stories like that.
That was a basically hypothesis they tested, but a flood event would have left evidence.
joburg, the one city in the world where noone gives ashit about anyone
Happy New Year! We'll be back next week with new episodes but in the meantime, enjoy another episode of our podcast, Eons: Mysteries of Deep Time. The entire first season is available wherever you get your podcasts! podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/eons-mysteries-of-deep-time/id1610360633
Are there plans for season 2 in the near future?
Ducks have a "graveyard," and sick and dead go to the area they have picked out. I discovered that as a child when I was playing with ducks at a park I went to regularly, to feed them. My Dad worked there so that's why I went so often, and it kinda broke my heart a little, but also made me appreciate how humans are just another kind of animal.
@@RayneSaltair
Yup, humans are animals. No dividing line there. 👍🏻
@@RayneSaltair u r a wise man
Will there be a season two? I really hope so!
Ravens are out there taming wolves, absolutely Homo naledi could have had burial chambers 😂
The Naledi had advanced cerebral cortices probably similarly developed to our own. This was protoculture in my opinion. These 15 individuals were deliberately dragged into this cave system for a reason that was important to them, and I'll bet it was after they died. It's a pity we can't know what time spans these interments took place over.
imo, to bury the dead was a much more common tradition than it's tought pre civilization. Elefants mourn the dead aswell. Our advance and adaptively evolved mourning system could've let to humans just instinctively bury the dead as a coping mechanism. You have so many evidences of humans displaying mourning rituals like burials since the last age, and even if there was such a thing before, we'd have no way of knowing because of the flood. Think about it, we haven't that much time of evolution to change that much on a cognitive level
I'd like to know that, too. And why not more than 15 if this was a repeated practice for a while.
In your opinion...
@@tuca3434 the famous neanderthal grave at Shanidar springs to mind. Buried with many gathered flowers
@@anyascelticcreations it possibly was more than 15 but human remains deteriorate rapidly in most conditions. Gonna check your etsy page Anya
Big news! Scientists are now gonna check if they can sequence the genome of homo naledi so let's hope some have survived.
This was beautifully recorded and narrated, and the storytelling is excellent! Thanks, guys! Looking forward to all the upcoming prehistory content from Eons. Happy New Year :)
In my own life I've found that people of the ancient world tend to be much smarter than we give them credit for.
It's not impossible and even more likely to think that these Human traits evolved earlier than we think.
Alot of it comes from the mindset of early scientists, the rest from the resignation of assumption.
I have been surprised so many times already by the intelligence of animals like crows, dolphins, dogs, elephants... that I wouldn't really doubt the intelligence of an ancient hominid if there are "mysteries" like these.
Technology does not equal intelligence. I think it's pretty obvious that our ancestors have an equal amount of intelligence, since their brains were equal in size. The fact that certain tools weren't as sophisticated as what we have today, doesn't make them less intelligent. That sophistication is nothing more than just building upon previous inventions. Sometimes it (subjectivity) feels that people are getting less intelligent since they have to do, work and think less.
yes people so often have that dumb caveman thing in their head. its mostly the general public that gets their information from populair media
Just smarter in a different way, taught by their environment.
TONS of animals have unique behaviours around their dead - putting corpses in a special, separate area to avoid the spread of illness is an extremely advantageous behaviour in and of itself, let alone how plenty of social animals mourn
The whole time I was thinking of burials. It’s strange to me that scientists would find it far fetched that ancient ancestors buried their dead in some way. Elephants and crows mourn. I think it’s rather sad that people are so quick to look for violent reasons when “”human”” ones make so much sense. Thank you eons for the cool exploration! Love you guys ❤
Homo Naledi are probably better described as "cousins" than "ancestors" of modern humans.
You don't know what you don't know till you know it.
@@mildsoup8978 I've always loved that phrase. Partly because it confused the hell out of me when I first heard it.
Mass burials.
Of H. Naledi, after H. Sapiens genocided them 😂
This makes perfect sense to me too. Something that I thought about was how cats will often deliberately go off by themselves - into a sheltered space, hidden and alone - when they're very sick or dying. I can't say how many other creatures do the same, even knowing that much is quite sad. But why couldn't H. naledi have done the same? Maybe someone went with them, but maybe not. Maybe they went into these places knowing they wouldn't be disturbed. And if any of them went in because they were sick or injured, but then got better, how would we know? There'd be no bones! (Though this is also not supported by the evidence discussed in the podcast, and without having food or water with them, they'd only have a day or two to "get better.")
It's very strange to me how so often, science seems to still be operating on a kind of bias - anthropocentric, I guess. With the assumption that only humans can do X thing or Y thing, but then finding exactly that in numerous species that aren't even hominins. As OP pointed out, elephants mourn, crows mourn, and some animals go hide when they're about to die. I am hoping that current researchers are trying to keep an open mind in regards to potential behaviors.
And I really don't think the idea of the group members bringing the bodies here is that far-fetched either. No, it's not a "formal burial" like what we tend to think of - there are no objects set with the bodies, no favorite pebble or pretty stone on a string. But maybe they didn't HAVE those yet, just because they could mourn and could make the social decision to place their dead in a secluded and specific location doesn't mean they had tool making or fire or adornments of any sort. Not having fire doesn't exclude having burials - there's no logical reason why it should, either, as far as I can see.
So maybe these WERE death caves, but not in the sense of a trap, only in the sense of "these are the caves for the dead."
Incredibly fascinating. If it really was burial practices, then it does show a higher level of effort into burying deceased individuals. Could it also be a place where dying members of the species took themselves to expire?
Makes sense. You know you're not going to live much longer and don't want to be a burden on your tribe, crawl into a hole and let nature take its course.
@@richardbidinger2577 it's not that human of a trait as well. cats do it too.
However, the likelihood that those cavernous paths are the same as they were hundreds of thousands of years ago also seems unlikely to my intellect. Sediment constantly shifts & settles itself while in motion & Earth is always in motion. Therefore, I'd think the paths during homo naledi’s time yielded much more open space than what was discovered by our scientists. Some more narrow pathways of naledi's time could have completely disappeared as time & gravity slowly collapse the land structure in which these chambers & caverns have been rediscovered.
@@malkaijaxyn Possibly, but the geologists say it's unlikely. Cave systems change at very different rates in different places, and this cave system looks like it has not changed much since Naledi used it. They were smaller than us, so it was a little easier for them to get through the tight passages. And new evidence suggests that they used fire to light the place up.
That’s possible. One thing that I thought of was that we, H. sapiens, often do the opposite, in that we die in a communal setting. Everyone knows of the grandparent who lingered on until all of the children/grandchildren could be there for their death. Perhaps the caves, being so inaccessible to creatures larger than H. naledi, would be a safe place for them to gather for the dying of a group member. They could safely wait for the person’s death, then after they died, the survivors could leave them in the place of the dead, safe from predation, and go back to the world of the living.
this was prob written before lee berger (first published h naledi) announced it, but they found evidence of fire use in the cave system!!!
How soon will we get a visual representation of what these guys might have looked like?
Yay! I'm so glad you've gotten to Homo Naledi! Such a fascinating discovery. The interview with Lee Berger on The Insight podcast a few years ago is one I go back to over and over because he tells the story so well. I hope they are able to sequence the DNA at some point -- as of a couple years ago they hadn't been able to yet.
You might be in luck, because Lee Berger actually arrived in Denmark several days ago with a sample they’re going to try to extract aDNA from!
Woohoo! Can't wait to hear the DNA results!
When you think about It though seeing such a sight could even explain how even ancient modern humans used makeshift caves and sealed them to protect the dead bodies, when you see these sorts of geologic historical record of homo naledi it real shows that being "human" is more than just homo sapiens but our entire ancient family tree
Would you have a link for that podcast? It sounds very interesting!
@@gudrungrass1911 They haven't done an episode since mid-2020, but I recommend their back catalog. This interview, though, was by far my favorite and it permanently lives on my phone. (youtube errored when trying to add this to the link so... hopefully the link comes through. If not, search "the insight podcast lee berger" and it will be the first hit)
@@gudrungrass1911 YES!
You failed to mention the soot stained cave ceiling which would imply a far earlier use of fire . Post production news, don't you hate it?🖖
Lee Burger-the founder of this species-has actually found very strong evidence for fire use, just released in this past week. I think this podcast may have been recorded before the announcement of this discovery and released after. Please update this podcast and comment on this new information!!
Burger teased evidence of fire, as well as at least one other “really interesting” find during a presentation, but the team hasn’t yet published anything (or even prepublished anything). Can’t really comment on what hasn’t been published yet. For instance, they will probably want to provide evidence that the ash & embers are about the same age as the remains, and that they weren’t washed in or otherwise accidentally deposited there. Crossing “I”s, dotting “t”s, or that sort of thing. :-)
One of the best things I've listened to in years. SO well done; Michelle's voice-over was entrancing and extrememly evocative, and the music choices superb. The subject matter was wonderful and the conclusions not just thought provoking but moving.
Hey please put more of your podcasts on TH-cam! I love listening to these as I lay in bed at night getting ready to go to sleep.
Please add "Podcast" to the video title
As i was listening i kept thinking to myself , these are burial chambers! But they may have been driven to do this, not ritually, or emotionally driven. We humans know that we need to put corpses or carcasses as far away from the living as possible just to keep predators from being invited to a free buffet. Only makes sense.
That's what I was thinking while watching this. Like gophers.
I was thinking this too. Though there could also be a cultural aspect to it. too
Uh, they did find fire. They found spot on the ceiling and multiple hearths with burnt animal bone. Thats what Berger said recently online
Just before I graduated A&M Homo Naledi was discovered and we got to see the first official skull casts. Truly amazing.
I was five minutes in screaming "BURIAL CHAMBER" at my phone.
Edit: apparently soot was found on the cave ceiling. This was obviously an older episode, which is why that info wasn't included.
yeah, it disappointed me. primitive hearths were found too, they should add a disclaimer
Fascinating topic. Excellent script and delivery. I wish there had been some visuals showing the differences between the skeletons found and modern humans.
A few years ago, I visited the Cradle of Humankind and went to the Strandfontein caves. The tour didn't take us to the chambers, but we did see all the fossils on display in the museum. A great discovery for my homeland!
Possibilities, given the arrivals occurred over a long period.
"Hey look, a cave" and the Naledi goes in, gets lost, and is funneled by structural circumstances into one of two places. Forever lost and soon dead.
"Hey look, a Naledi!" shouts a homo sapiens. The Naledi runs into the cave to escape. Gets lost as above.
"Rooooaar" and a large carnivore tries to catch a tasty Naledi for dinner. The Naledi runs into the cave, enters a space too small for the predator. After a while, he falls asleep waiting for the predator to give up and leave. But now he is lost in darkness.
Some fellow Naledi, or some sapiens, in an act of male coalitionary violence (common in chimpanzees and humans) drive a Naledi into the cave, wounded and afraid. Perhaps they force him deeper, or fear does the work.
Could be a mix of several of these over time.
I just commented something very similar. As much as it would be exciting for these bodies to have been placed there by others of their species, sometimes things just happen and people end up as archeological discoveries as a result.
I like to think it was more of a prevent predators from eating their dead and also prevent predators from finding where they live via smell of decay
I like your theory tho I feel that many "people" would have been able to chase off a predator if it came down to it
That still wouldn't explain the reason for ONLY naledi to be in the cave. And yet in such a large quantity. One or two, or even a few I would think that possible, but 15 and yet still no other species also getting chased or ending up in and lost in the same way? It would seem more likely the area around the cave was inhabited or at least frequented by the species, and so used by them in a way that would keep another species away.
The questions and discussions in the comments are wonderful today. I loved listening to these first as podcasts, but this sort of interaction in the community is another way to experience the story and I love it.
I wonder if there was an easier entrance previously that ended up being blocked off later? Even with a burial ceremony, it just seems odd that they would go to such depths to bury their dead? I love your podcasts, they are one of the only things that help me get to sleep when my insomnia flares up
Im thinking the same thing. Either we havnt found it yet or the entrance has long since collapsed and filled in.
I remember reading about the discovery of Homo naledi when it was first made. The burial theory was posed even back then, and the idea that these creatures that were not truly human engaged in a practice that I had been told my whole life was *intrinsically* human absolutely blew me away. I even wrote and did a public speech on it for my county 4-H and went over my time limit because I just couldn't stop talking about it. I hadn't heard anything about it since then, but now knowing that Homo naledi lived *beside* us... My chest felt tight listening to this. I can't articulate my thoughts right now. They weren't us, but *they were like us.*
Imagine if these species never went extinct and live with us today
I mean, given how we treat other races it’s not hard to predict what would happen to other hominids, but it’s an interesting thing to think about
@@chuckthebear5530 Here's a thought. Considering how modern humans treat each other, like you mentioned, what if the other human species were like that, too? What if they all were highly competitive and xenophobic to the point of violence? Maybe that is part of why our species is so extreme - ancient competition with the other humans to survive. And maybe that's why there is only one left.
Like underground? For all this time. They would have probably evolved skin with no pigmentation due to never seeing the sun, maybe look a little grey, have large eyes so they could see underground, have an abundance of minerals and metals and me highly skilled at utilizing them, probably able to create exotic materials unknown to us. Maybe they occasionally come up due to concerns about what we're doing... i believe they never did
@@DJCUK77 in gonna go out on a limb here and say these people didn't actually live their lives underground
I suspect their dna is intertwined with us already as Neanderthal is.
I really like having these podcast episodes on TH-cam. Great work, team
Eons, I can never get enough of early human episodes! Thanks & keep making more!🎉
"uniquely human" according to humans 😃 great video tho! I've crawled through caves that small when I was younger (and thinner) and it was absolutely terrifying
There is a LOT out there about what Lee Berger has been up to in South Africa. The full story is delightful and full of wonder. National Geographic has covered a chunk of it. Also, Berger had decided that rather than hoard all the info for himself and his university, he has willingly invited the WORLD to learn along with him. A very refreshing attitude.
Bro I'm gonna cry, I didn't realize it was another podcast replay. I crave the cast
I’m a visual learner, I like the audio but I gotta see things to really Get It… oh how I’d love some infographics
it didnt even mention the soot and hearths we've found in the caves
I quite enjoyed this new Eons experience for me! I'm amazed, how people deliberately push themselves to go through those tiny holes into unknown... also, why this is a question, can some species be considered human, if it's in their name, literally - homo! They are human, of course!
I think it’s always interesting when things like this come along that challenge our timeframe on culture and societal behavior
Gunung Padang may be something that challenges our timeframe of the development of civilization. Or not, further investigation needed.
Die to it, and other surprisingly ancient ancient architecture found in various parts of the world, I suspect 12,000 years ago or so is the cut-off point when more ancient civilization(s) were flooded and destroyed due to melting glaciers and subsequent rising sea levels. And we still don't know what culture(s) gave birth to ancient Egypt as Egypt didn't just spring out of nowhere.
There is new information about smoke soot on the ceiling of the small chambers that have been found. Lee Burger lost a lot of weight and went into the crawl spaces himself a few months back and found remnants of fire smoke on the ceilings of the small space.
Another hypothesis which might be unlikely would be a more advanced species depositing the dead there if it wasn't homo naledi themselves.
Just the simple fact that they were deposited that deep in the caves and those tiny crawl spaces is mind-blowing in itself.
It also sounds like the perfect recipe for primordial carbon-monooxide poisoning.
They could have been mining or going after a trapped child. There is no shortage of humans who've gotten themselves stuck underground too. That kid's soccer team that got stuck shows how many adults would be willing to die about it once a kid falls in a cave.
I really like this theory, of searching for a trapped child.
This is an absolutely amazing episode, seriously one of my favourites so far. Keep doing what you guys do, you are doing amazing!
That was wonderful.
It's been a while since I've listened to a podcast- that was a perfect reintroduction to the medium.
i have some issues with this video, it doesnt mention the fire and soot found on the roofs of the chambers and primitive hearths found in them too
For those who are informed: Did these hominids have had to climb into those chambers? I think they said at one point you have to scale a sharp, vertical wall to eventually arrive at those two chambers. Was it likely for a naledi to carry another there? Was there evidence that the individuals died (and decomposed) in the cave? Or was it possible that just the bones were carried in?
Some of the bones are articulated which very strongly suggests that bones were still attached to flesh when they arrived at their final destination.
@@michaelhopkins9726 Thanks for explaining that. I didn't know the terminology. So they may have climbed in there intending to die. Wow.
P.S. Just read another comment about hiding from floods. Is it possible geologically that the entrance could've been under water at some point? Doesn't explain why just two two caverns had deaths and nothing else, though.
@@smurfydayThere's a more recent discovery of a smaller individual, probably a child, buried in the cave. This should put doubt on the theory that they went down the caves to expire, what child would do that?
What if the bodies are there because they were some sort of sacrifice? Or the other members of their group locked them in there as some sort of prison?
both of those scenarios are more complex examples of human behavior, as well as suggesting intentionality that would mark high intelligence since the bones were deposited over a wide range of time
Such interesting content! That said, I'm not fond of the "podcast voice" the hosts use and prefer the more conversational tone of the YT Eons episodes.
Out there I believe there are still human species waiting to be found.
Great episode! Thought provoking and with fantastic music choices.
Remember that cave system in Australia with evidence of human activity dating back 40 000 years that a mining company blew up a little while back?
Don't worry though, they apologized.
Had to put this at 1.5x speed, but I don't normally listen to audios like this, is it normal to be this slow?
The anxiety of the description of the squeezing into the caves was toooo much, man!
I have to say, I really enjoyed the weekly 10-15 minute videos. They seem pretty rare now, being mostly replaced by shorts and av occasional podcast.
Will you be going back to the weekly videos. Or have they been permanently replaced with the thinner fare that's been posted lately?
🤞 For a season 2 of the Podcast soon.
I really enjoy this series. I'm happy you moved it from Spotify to TH-cam. I will listen to this probably three or four times while I'm going to sleep before I'm able to get through all of it.
20 minutes ... Can work wait that long? 😰
... yes 🤫 (I need this)
great content, great story, but i would greatly prefer to not mix mediums in the future. Podcasts on the podcasts app, videos on youtube.
Caver - Someone who explores caves for research.
Spelunker - Someone who explores caves for recreation.
I had to look up "caver" because I hadn't heard the term. TIL. 👍👍
This was amazing. I needed something to listen to as my eyes are too strained from the day, and its volume, style, and soundtrack are p e r f e c t i o n ♡ Thank you everyone at Eons and team!!!
How close to the entrance of the Dinaledi Chamber were the various remains found? If there is no evidence of fire, and the bodies were placed far from the entrance, then how did they see to put them there?
I wonder if their eyes were better adapted to night vision than our own. It could be an imperceptable trait that changed among a specific group, sort of like how (I believe?) Nepali and Tibetan people have a literal evolutionary advantage in high altitudes compared to the rest of H. sapiens
iirc there were actually some primitive hearths found and soot from fire on the roofs of the chambers
It's one thing to listen to podcasts about discoveries in your own field and it's another whole thing entirely to be the student of one of the paleoanthropologists involved in the analysis of that finding. I feel so proud to be his advisee.
I knew as soon as you began talking about them, it reminded me of a burial. I cheered when you talked about the burial theory. It is literally the theory that makes the most sense!
I'm not terribly claustrophobic, but the only way I'm jumping into a basketball hoop is if there's something the size of a grizzly bear chasing me. And I take pains not to get in THAT situation either.
Me too!
Were they hiding from a rival clan, or forced in there as prisoners ? One can only imagine the plight of those people to enter such a place to die.
Or explored (individually or in small groups) out of curiosity!
@@T3sl4 Yes, but no signs of fire/lighting makes me feel this was a trip under duress of some sort, no chance to plan before.
During their time, the cave was not as it is today. It probably had a large opening and they entered not far from the opening.
They sure as hell did not go on ancavinf expedition 1 km in the darkness with no light.
Great story! For a while I thought they were hiding down there from the competition (e.g. H. sapiens), but I guess the burial chamber hypothesis makes more sense. Still, what a terrifying experience, or how brave they must have been to travel so far in such a difficult cave in complete darkness.
The quality of the recording is really great, looking forward to season 2 of the podcast
I wonder if humans will speciate into a predatory and omnivore variety? 🤔
It's interesting how some humans prey on each other (mostly culturally learned) but imagine if associated mutations took root speciated/evolved 😬
Anything is possible, as carnivores arise from herbivores and vice-versa, but I think we are still so dependent on a variety of foods that any diet based speciation would likely have to come from a huge evolutionary pressure. I wonder if vegetarianism based on climate security could be such a change, but with lab-meat being a possibility, I'm not currently thinking so.
Quite enjoyed this thought experement though
Are you referencing the Time Machine by H G Wells?
I didn't hear anyone propose that it could have been an execution site.
Is it possible the structure of the caves has changed over thousands of years? Could they have been much more open then?
If I tried to squeeze through a passage as wide as a basketball, I would die
I miss the Eons originals, not just their rehashed podcasts that we’ve been getting.
I love the podcasts, but I'm also missing new episodes. I've already listened to all the podcasts so when I see a new video I'm always a bit disappointed when it turns out to be a podcast episode I've already listened to.
I'm kinda on the fence about it, because i only follow them on TH-cam, so the audio podcasts are new to me.
I've gotten used to their normal shows where one of them presents a specific topic, but i also prefer longer videos.
I have nothing against audio podcasts though, some of my favorite channels are exactly that, voices discussing science over moving pictures loosely related to the topics (John Michael Godier/Event Horizon, Sean Carroll, History of the Universe/Earth etc.)
But i do have to say that i am initially more excited when it's a regular Eons episode, even though i also enjoy the audio podcasts.
I don't mind the podcasts, but I do wish they'd clearly label them as such in the title.
I have a dumb question…. Was it the same back then? Could there have been other entrances? Or it be less the dark place like now? I can believe they buried their dead. Just wondering.
We've also known about the fossils in there for ages, and have been down into the small chute and chamber where Naledi was found.
...there are other caves only a couple tens of metres from that one (westminster) with other fossils and chambers that are almost impossible to get to. I have even been first into the one chamber in the one cave (aside from some porcupines).
This was a great podcast, Michelle. Thank you.
It's so interesting learning about our distant ancestors and cousins. How we evolved, why we homo sapien developed the way we did and why our species 'won' the race. Why we still, mainly as children, have the urge to climb trees.
I see no reason why homo naledi would not bury their beloved dead in caves far from predators.
Uh-oh, I'm stuck in this basketball width cave, help me step-naledi!
Great podcast, I enjoyed this so much! Very well presented too.
I really enjoyed this audio podcast. Her voice is easy on the ears and information easy to process. I had eye surgery today, and this was perfect. :)
Looking at the way hardcore Trumpists are behaving, I'd say Homo Naledi had FAR more humanity.
I applaud Eon's return to this topic to expand on this Mystery! Human like feet would have a painful difficulty time climbing rock out of a cave like that, if possible. This cave has lots of dangerous traps making your way down and then on your stomach. Have they made experiments to see if we can climb out without equipment, and barefoot except for lighting of course for safety reasons stay on. We keep thinking that creatures as smart ( I'm talking as smart as chimps at least right ), would you carry your dead into a cave where there is no light then exit with no light putting their lives in that kind of danger? You would have to be experienced navigating many times through that cave to be able to head straight to those specific spots and come out. More likely they fled into to escape something and if the bones are more than fifteen, it could have been a group hunt situation. Their new neighbors were just clearing out their new neighborhood of dangerous vermin if they were another different version of early pre-sapiens. Thank you Eon for another fascinating adventure in Evolutionary history.😃
Ngl love this, thank you for the lesson on our old relative here. Although one thing I'll say... I've personally watched as crows covered a fallen family member with leaves and sticks, so there's definitely other creatures that practice it in some way. Then they're super organisms which I'm not claiming humans are anywhere near butttttt, I'd like to think that we have compassion enough for each other that we could make use of some of there skills/adaptations. I know of a few species of ants that when there sick or dying they go to the graveyard themselves. Can even kinda mess with there own head using there chemical signalling.
Definitely a graveyard, elephants even grieve and have 'graves' of sorts
I purchased and read Lee Berger’s book, Almost Human. Very interesting how these guys were very nearly human, and were essentially rubbing elbows with more advanced human species. Joe
I find myself more interested in produced videos than a podcast over a static image.
But I get how you dont want the time and cost of redoing the subject matter in video format.
Maybe ... if you started with the podcast as audio, and add to it a stack of still images congruent to what is being talked about ... the actual cave, some naledi bones, ect ... edited into where they make sense. Something to look at. Make it a hybrid between podcast and a produced video.; not as time and $ costly as videos, but still in a format that works on TH-cam. That be cool.
What might inform the decision is the drop out rate over time, for a video like this. Are people getting bored and dropping out before the end?
I did.
They could have went in on their own to die...whenever they thought thar time was coming...it seems unlikely to me that it was a round trip ticket...maybe the elderly, sick, or dying, would voluntarily exile themselves...
At around 8:45, they discuss the vertical shafts that animals fall into, then say that the chambers are too far from any of them. Isn't it likely, though, that shafts open and close through geological process all the time? Then there could have once been a much shorter surface connection to the chambers that's now closed. I wonder how easy it is for speleologists to find evidence of this, but I think the mystery of the fossil locations is only as deep as the chambers are from the ground directly above, not from the nearest currently known access.
This kind of video is pure bliss.
There is now evidence of soot in the roof of the Dinaledi caves. That soot has been dated to around the same as the bones. 2 The passages are so narrow and angular that moving a sick or dead body seems a very unlikely task. 3 In all likelihood there were other more accessible passages that have collapsed. A truly amazing find but the conclusions of this video are not the most likely explanations for why they are there.
Not sure if I will come back to listen past 2 minutes. Just felt a claustrophobia from the narration that I never felt when I visited for example the nearby Sterkfontein limestone caves in the 90s. 😞
My thoughts on burial ( or disposal of the dead )is that it initially began as a way to keep predators away from the camp/settlement for protection. Dragging the bodies well away from living spaces only makes sense when one can be a prey species.
Update. Charcoal has now been found in the chamber. Their brain is very similar to ours despite size. This maybe a another homo that Homo sapiens, bread with to create current Homo sapiens. Pretty cool.
Sorta useless without video really , what was the strata as uncovered in video kinda stuff , things meaning full , video evidence ,
A few weeks ago, the guy in charge of the Naledi dig put out a press report that soot has been found on the cave ceiling. HN might very well have had fire.
The, "you reach a narrow gap"...nope my story ends there, no laying down and peering through, nope, "so she turned around and left" ...the end
Imagine realizing you were walking all over those fossils 💀 excellently preserved fossils.
After reading Lee Berger's Almost Human I was SO EXCITED listening to this!!!
I'm happy to see you post another podcast episode! 🥰
I'd gladly listen to the series on the regular... but I'm not interested in using another app/service to do so. My phone is already full up.
I did not appreciate any actual photos or videos. This is not up to PBS Eons normal standards. 😒😒
Besides burials, I was thinking they were chased in their by enemies. Since they came at different times, maybe it was a form of execution or exile.
There is evidence that there was fire use.