The Worst Skills in Payday 2
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 16 มิ.ย. 2024
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The Worst Build in 2022. The sequel nobody asked for...
Thank you so much to Raviness on Discord for once again coming up with this brilliant video concept!
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#Payday2 #Kknowley - เกม
I really, really hope Payday 3 has a new, more refined skill system that doesn't feature so many underwhealming skills that nobody really uses.
I think that's an inevitable part of any game, if there isn't any bad skill then there isn't any good skill either. The better option imo is having more niche skills that specialized in a specific play style, or only actually good when combined with others.
I want specialized killing back 😭
i mean you can run basically anything on death wish and below and can make it work somehow, a lot of this variation i think is fun and needed, and death sentence is bs anyways that can seldom be played with anything but meta
what i hope is there are many different op builds, rather than 3 op builds
+5 to melee damage when?
4:15 I feel that I should add here that saws are even worse than that for bulldozers, IIRC saws should do 500 damage to bulldozers but due to how the code hasn't been updated for this in years medic/minigun dozers do not count for this damage boost.
I got this info from RedFlame's Fixed Saw Damage Scaling mod.
Some gripes with a couple choices. Saw massacre aced is surprisingly good because it's one of those misleading skill descriptions. The panic actually works on any kill while you have a saw out, meaning melee, throwables, and DOT will proc this panic. This panic isn't weak either, it's a pretty high chance for a high radius. If you want to see that go to work, try socio with knives and just have a saw out. You'll end up causing quite a ruckus among the enemies.
Dire need is a great lifesaving skill too, especially aced. I don't think I can count how many times I've lived just because I shot every enemy of a crowd instead of focusing on killing each one. Dire need is super helpful on more fragile builds.
Dire need is great for grinder builds. Almost all of your time will be spent either with your armor down or in the 6 second window. It's ideal for bullet hoses like miniguns and smgs and the best part about it is you no longer have to fear cloakers or tasers. Obviously, they can be staggered before they attack, but it can also interrupt charges and tases.
@@jimass13 It's also great for sicario and anarchist since your armor is always going up and down
also he didnt take the sentry T1 aced (protective shield) when showing his sentry tree to get to t4
Must confess, I wasn't aware of the additional panic effect. This is exactly why I like to make videos like these to learn those little techs and share them community-wide. I almost feel like my overuse of snipers has clouded my opinion on Dire Need, I can definitely see some value in it with other weapons. Thanks as ever Carrot!
@@stevie8271 that wasn't intended to be me suggesting how you should build for sentries. You're absolutely right in pointing out the power of the shield!
You missed what I see as Second Wind's best use. For any stealth heist that turns into a rush, having that constant stream of +30% speed is incredible, paired with some teammates with Yakuza. I generally use an HE Judge to proc the skill, and use it on Diamond Store rushes, but wouldn't be surprised to see it used on Shadow Raid either.
Yeah, second wind aced is top tier for ECM rushing from what I've seen.
search for marcmb
@@thy422 but ecm rushing is Just stupid
@@ALPHABYTE64 diamond store emc rush: am i a joke to you?
@@ALPHABYTE64 nah ecm rushes is the fastest way if you want to level up and infamy grind, so its not stupid as you may seem.
I genuinely enjoy melee builds, running as Jiro and screaming as i slash my enemies
There will be bloodshed
Melee is fun just unviable for harder heists
@@Brent-jj6qi I have my Hells Island DSOD done thanks to infiltrator flamethrower melee build, so it isn't completely unviable on harder heist
@@Kyee124 Smart! Close quarters is definitely good for Infiltrator.
@@yeatard Memories broken, the truth goes unspoken
10:40 I do want to point out that I once ran an almost "Melee Exclusive" build that revolved around going fucking apeshit and because I didnt have time to constantly keep watch, having it constantly charged for the next enemy only for it to be used on a Cloaker who decided to be sneaky is a ton of help.
Cloaker: SNEAK ATTACK BITCH
Meme melee build user: *countered* i dont hear ya laughing now
Even in other builds, you can save yourself by holding melee as soon as you hear the WULULULULULU.
Even if you start a milisecond earlier, it still works
Dire Need is actually pretty powerful, especially when used with automatic weapon, as your shots wont instantly kill enemies, and DN allows you to survive encounters when your amor is down
My suggestion for combat medic aced is:
*"reviving a teammate heals them up to max hp, 60 seconds cooldown. (Does not apply to players with berserk skill unlocked)"*
This might be very powerful for lower difficulties but anything good is powerful for them anyways. But it will be really decent for DSOD gameplay if the max health pool is enough to tank at least a single bullet. It's not that expensive as well, would synergize great with inspire.
Actually that pretty cool idea
@@Mi_tala The game is kinda old for skill overhauls like this so i hope payday 3 has a skill tree with at least situationally useful skills at the worst. Some of the current skills in pd2 are both bad in functionality and also values with low percentages. Also the skills are WAY different depending on difficulty, maybe some skills can scale up with difficulty to stay somewhat useful, just an idea.
@@celestialcolosseum and also i want to make in pd3 skill hard to get,so it can make more rewarding like the old pd2 skill but in unique way
@@celestialcolosseum Game had a skill tree overhaul not that long ago... 3-4 years ago or so
@@migueeeelet 3 to 4 years ago is a long time mate especially for a videos game
Combat Medic and Up You Go should give 30% and 40% of your total healthbar when revived. This will be very handy on health-based builds as reviving with 10% health is currently their biggest weakness on higher difficulties. On the other hand, a Muscle player can spring back into action with 80% health without having to waste an extra medkit.
Yeah
counterpoint imo, most, if not all health tanking perkdeck, has jokers skills that make their lives easier, sure bringing hostage taker aced for Kingpin isnt necessary, but it sure as hell helps. Combat medic, again, ruins berzerker breakpoints, meaning its pretty much exclusively only viable if the entire team runs kingpin muscle crewchief ect
Ehh not really. First Aid Kits are plentiful. Even if you don't bring them, Health decks have ways to quickly regen their health. Only thing you need to do is be more patient for the small time being.
@@emberz3778 muscle has a innate regen that heals them over the course of 3 business days, hostages take it down to 2 but sure
@@sakuyaizayoi8946 Alright, well I see you ignored the last sentence of needing patience XD
Can you beat Payday 2 with the worst skills and only using the AMCAR?
No
Still, having the worst skills is still better than no skills.
I'm pretty sure he already did that but just the amcar and chimano
@@BadModder he had good skills and still struggled. it would definitely fail without revenant tree alone.
@@sydssolanumsamsys yup
For Counterstrike Aced, personally, I've gotten a lot of use out of it. Sure, when a Cloaker is *right in front of you* and you're staring at him, sure, it's like 'Just kill him, he's right there.' But for those moments when I'm focused on the 300 other cops trying to kill me, and I just suddenly hear their noise out of nowhere, well, just quickly hold the melee button and boom. Vulnerable. And personally, I never know when the Cloakers are actually going to jump and kick, so I prefer to have it as a back up.
*look around*
*shoot cloaker*
problem solved!
either way, i understand using Counterstrike, quite fun when you beat the shit out of the cloaker that tried to dropkick you
@@perhapsYoYo Yeah, I just dont always even see the cloaker, specially since they like to hide in places I dont notice before running at me.
@@perhapsYoYo look around
See a taser
**WolooOLOLOOOLOO**
THAT WASN'T A TAS-
@@EpicWinNoob don't know about y'all, but for my last few games Tasers really came in clutch with them tasing me while Cloaker is trying to kick me
If the health revive skills scaled off your max hp, I could actually see them being fairly useful on DW or mayhem, since they could Massively increase your survivability after getting picked up, depending on the numbers.
Dire need actually not that bad. The aced version actually mean when your armor break all shot will make enemy stagger and effect will last for 6 second more when armor recovered. It help me a few times from cloaker or rushing enemies assuming you cant kill all of them in time and i find it to be abit useful on 168 sniper build that cant hit 255 breakpoint with Overkill aced or Berserker so you can literally stop a group of enemies rushing with graze shot or smg volley. But it still isnt that good because as you said "just make them dead quickly" but for me i do not think it deserve spot on this video since it still have redeeming quality.
Overall still a great video keep it up!
Dire need is a really good skill to combine with dodge as it will allow you to stagger enemies while your armor regens, since with dodge your armor is 1 shot
I have no experience with really high crime sprees but i feel like the staggering might also be useful there
@@MadWatcher that's not just thinking. that's the fact. Overkill always write the most obsecure description possible
Second Wind Aced is especially useful when a Sicario is running it. Since Sicario is build around taking damage, you can activate Second Wind a lot of the time. I'd say it's most useful on Mayhem, where you don't get punished as hard for playing clumsily and not focussing on your armour. Plus I very much appreciate others running it on dodge builds as if they're playing badly I still get something out of it :)
It is only really good for speedrunning. That is about it.
@@Bay1k Still, going fast is fun.
@@NorthEevee depends. But I get it.
@@Bay1k its saved my dodge ass before when a sniper dinks me
@@thefirstjim Couldn't you have just killed the sniper first? XD
Second Wind aced is fun on a Grinder buildup up to DW. Pretty consistent speed boost with armor gating abuse.
Do you think videos like these would benefit from more discussion around different difficulty levels, say Overkill in additional to DSOD?
I definitely get what you mean. I think an argument can be made that as long as you have a perk deck, skills are entirely optional for Overkill and down so I prefer to focus the discussion at the higher difficulty levels. It's also worth mentioning that my goal isn't to tell people to not use any of these skills, more so to discuss, find uses and potentially point Overkill towards the skills that need slight adjustments.
Honestly the tier 2 revenant skills could really use some reworking, being revived with a little more health is nice, until you consider that most perk decks have some form of health regeneration already. Maybe making one of the skills increase the amount of health you're revived with based on how many enemies you killed while downed would be something neat to play around with
As a more casual player, I honestly think Biker is a somewhat slept-on perk deck. Though its not DW viable to my knowledge and it encourages a more selfish playstyle, it rewards a more aggressive playstyle, similar to Leech, Stoic, Grinder, or other active regenerator perk decks. Its also possible to armor gate with Biker since kills reward both health and armor. Even then, Biker allows you to play more objective based when you have three other teammates running around on a mass murder spree.
biker is the kind of perk deck that could be buffed with mods to make it DW viable, maybe some youtuber should make a mod pack of perk decks buffed to dw
I think you're underestimating some health-centered builds like stoic or supportive builds like crew chief when it comes to more health. If you have stoic and more health on revive it'll be much difficult to get instadowned immediately. As for crew chief, idk if a good dsod crew chief build exists but if it does then it can be very good because it pretty much multiplies all crew skills, especially if you are in loud with many hostages and arrested cops. For the dodge skill, I typically use it to try to get the most amount of dodge (and often crit) with the highest damaging weapons. On unaced I can get to probably 6 detection and still have +10 dodge, but acing the skill allows me to get more like 10-15 detection and pretty much still have a dodge loadout.
What about the skill that automatically turns in a hostage when you get arrested? I think that skill isn't very viable because ideally you wouldn't want to go downed, and when hostages exchange it's at a point in the heist that combat has died down anyways so usually it's not difficult for a teammate to grab them.
HP-based deck usually uses FAKs and/or Hostage taker so a little extra HP on revive didn't do that much (it'll probably work for OVK difficulty but on DS? you *probably* still got 1 shotted by Heavy with or without the extra HP on revive)
the dodge skill is a bit hard to justify... cuz on one hand you get 10% extra dodge, but on the other hand it's ONLY 10%
with hacker you can get 55% without any dodge skills and without concerning your detection
I do agree on Stockholm Syndrome being bad tho, 9 total point for a skill that didn't do much
the basic version is good for stealth tho
crew chief is actually unironically amazing, beats out a good chunk of perk decks, it helps everyone on the team, gives free 2 shot ictv breakpoint, more health, more tankiness, its great, sucks for zerk users but its fine imo. as for dodge, its a bit of a mess to explain but essentially 10% doesnt matter as much as to decks with already high dodge (hacker gives 55 with no skills) *and additionally* relying on dodge is considered bad anyway, bad in a way where the game becomes a lot more unpredictable compared to decks that give 100% risk return
It's old but remember that skill that reduced gangster damage? Lmmfao like wtf?
old skill tree was crazy
7:47 sneaky bastard aced is more for builds that use guns that don’t reach perfect 3 detection as the threshold to reach max dodge such as using a weapon with a higher mag size than spend points on skills, which makes sneaky bastard aced more situational, base is there if you are going for 3 detection anyways to top of rouge or sicario
To add onto heavy impact, when you shoot at an enemy in the head they usually end up flailing around anyway
To give heavy impact some credit, microgun + heavy impact is a great way to crowd control and makes shields a joke without needing a special weapon to deal with them
I’ve always loved second wind for my grinder build. When you don’t have much armor and are still pretty spongy getting a huge boost in speed after getting clapped by a sniper or punched by a dozer can get you out of a lot of bad spots.
Dire Need with shotgun leech is pretty good. You break your armor on command and anything in the general direction you’re facing gets staggered
I actually run Second Wind aced with grinder and the team speed boost can be really appreciated at times
I think the Counterstrike knockdown effect should deal damage, both basic and aced, to give it something for melee builds.
As for Trigger Happy, maybe the damage boost could stack on the Aced version, to really pack a bigger punch, or work like Overkill Aced.
Keep shittalking dodge and you may not dodge these hands, Knowley
- Sincerely,
Gray-screen 5 mins into the loud heist
I honestly really like heavy impact: i use an LMG with the world renowned tactic of "spray and pray until everything's dead", and with the particular weapon i use, headshots are difficult at best once you've been firing for more than like 4 rounds, when i often go for over 100 consecutively, so the stagger does actually come in very useful. Having the enemies dead IS better than having them on the floor but alive, but by that same logic, having a lot of enemies incapacitated (whether it's from being knocked to the ground, supressed from the sheer volume of high-threat fire, or, yes, dead) is better than them all being on their feet and firing at you.
Although, i'm an infamy 1 scrub who never plays above mayhem, so obviously my opinion doesn't matter /lh
i will add, i am currently working my way back up to a high enough level to use Body Expertise, so it's kinda just a stopgap, but it's likely going to be a part of my build until level 80 at least, just because of how effective its been
i know that nobody cares but this has been in the back of my mind since i posted it
i mean the anarchist transporter trick works in loud too if you have a heist with lots of gold (eg brooklyn bank/big bank). when you have a joker and lbv or hbv, you move faster than walking speed when carrying gold. which is...suprisingly helpful.
You should do a video on the worst original 2013 skills, like the one that slightly reduced the cost of crafting masks and the one that slightly increased the chance of getting an infamous mask.
heavy impact actually sounds like it would have synergy with the grimm 12g + dragonbreath combo. The initial damage is super low, it's playstyle is all about spray & pray and dragonbreath also has an innate stun chance.
I mean you can
But it's a waste of points since Grimm can already stun pretty well
Far Away tends to be best if you need to deal with snipers. Though it still is situational, it can be good on heists like Big Bank and Transport: Crossroads if you're running a Shotgun/Saw build. Even then, having that ability to get some extra range out of your shotgun if needed is nice to have as a "just in case" sort of thing.
sneaky bastard aced is actually kinda useful, if you get the basic version you can only have a max of 3 DR (Detection rating) BUT if you get the aced version you can go all the way up to 23 DR! same goes with the crit skill
also SB aced is useful when you're doing grinder, those extra few points of dodge help quite a bit imo
Yeah its weird to call it a noob trap since he gives passes to things like turrets or the skills in the shotgunner tree for enabling playstyles.
SB Aced enables some very strong weapon choices for dodge builds even on higher levels, like the stupid fun DMR dodge builds you can get away with.
And for PD2 ive always felt you kinda have to use DW as the one difficulty to check if the build/playstyle is actually good, since ever since it came out, DS has always had between 1-3 builds that are viable for that difficulty
I have an interesting idea for a challenge run. Whatever skills and perk deck you choose, you are stuck with, and every heist, your guns, your melee and your throwable are all randomized. You have to make a build that can work with anything
I actually really love Far Away it is. To save points, a decent amount of my shotgun builds only have shotguns unless I take Overkill aced. But without some semi iss accurate weapons, shotguns are extremely bad against Snipers. But with 3 to 9 nine skill points and some modding, most shotguns can now actually hit snipers from very long distance away which makes life infinitely easier imo.
I didn't know that Trigger Happy aced didn't apply the buff when switching to a primary so thanks for saving me 8 points in my build! Great video
I feel like underdog aced is a little underrated at times, I really like combining it with die hard basic for those really clutch objective confirms
underdog aced in higher difficulties can actually be a detriment - if it expires while you're being shot at by a heavy swat, you'll take 202.5 damage from one shot and then get immediately graced by the same cop dealing 225 damage. in some cases this is just a death sentence and you will die from it, eg zerk anarchists
*I find Heavy Impact aced to be pretty useful*
I use it on my lmg builds to take care of shields without having to switch weapons, I just shoot at them a couple of times and execute them when they hit the floor
Then just take Shock n awe aced. Not only can it be more effective, but it actually won't hinder your build as much. It is awkward trying to fit Heavy Impact when you are going for Body expertise, when you can just get surefire and lock n load instead.
At least Shock n awe is a lot easier to fit in and also helps with armour regen.
Heavy impact does have good impact on LMG builds, since with how many bullets that are fired acing it is never a neccesity, more just for excess points. Problem is when you factor in BE in the same tree, effectively turning every bullet into a headshot... yeah....
out of all these skills, counterstrike is the only one i really used on DS. When ur running a melee build with no intention of buffing or really using the guns you bring you end up holding the melee out pretty much all of the time so it blocks a ton of damage
I don't know why but I love sentry's it's just nice to have one to watch your back or hold an area or entire building
tbf, on builds with a very slow firing primary weapon, like the 500 damage tier of snipers, i think counterstrike aced makes more sense because of how slow those weapons can cycle, shooting a cloaker in the face is less reliable when you have over a second between shots and you get surprised
About heavy impact though, it's not a case of shoot an enemy 4 times and they will stagger, but 1 in 4 bullets will cause a stagger, i.e if you hit 4 enemies with 4 bullets 1 (or more or less) will be staggered. It's really useful for spraying into crowds with smgs and lmgs, and useful for turning any automatic weapon into anti shield
If knockdown was buffed so it affect all enemies that your target falls into get knocked over by them it could be interesting and turn Payday 3 into a bowling sim
Turrets with Grinder are really good, this is the only reason why I'm using all of engineer skills. Jack Of All Trades is also a nice bonus, since I can take medic bag(s) and use it/them if I downed multiple times.
Personally, I like the stagger effect with Vulcan Minigun. For when you just can't kill that one enemy fast enough, you can just stagger. Because if they aren't shooting, they're not killing you.
[also i 100% wish 'nade launchers could crit]
i personally enjoy running dire need aced on my crit graze contractor build, for if i get unlucky with crits the dire need will stun the enemies and save me. it can also be useful on slower low accuracy shotguns when combined with surefire aced, as the shotgun pellets will pierce heavy armor and then dire need will stun them. kinda situational but a lifesaver when activated!
4:42 one way to allow for a agressive saw playstyle could be a scrap-saw thats really beaten and bended. it cant saw through doors or lockboxes fast at all, taking like 6 or 8 taps just to saw through a bank lockbox. however it has high damage per hit and can rarely be obtained out of dropped ammo boxes. it could also counter the silent motor (cause its a trainwreck of a saw) while adding a lot of intimidation.
I’ve found that sneaky bastard works pretty well with a hacker dodge setup. Having passive dodge is nice to fall back on while you wait for your mini ecm to recharge
Counterstrike aced actually does have a legit (Albeit somewhat niche) use for one of my builds, which uses a flamethrower as their primary weapons. This usually can't kill the Cloaker in time (I use Bloodthirst with a Fire Axe to handle Dozers), nor can I swap to my secondary in time, meaning Cloakers are kind of the build's only weakness. As a result, Counterstrike is good to have as a "just in case" option, especially since the build is often far away from teammates.
I haven’t seen anyone else mentioning it, but Counterstrike Aced has a very niche use that I consider valuable. It makes doing White House True Ending solo very easy. If you bring AI, you just gotta be patient, but otherwise you’re pretty much invincible. Incredibly niche, but if you mainly play solo like me, it can make that section far less frustrating (if still just as tedious)
I tend to use Max Turret skills with Grinder perk deck, considering that the shots made by your turrets counts towards your HP regen activation.
I could see a pretty interesting challenge in the worst skills challenge, although I’d be even more interested in seeing a general ‘The Worst Challenge’. Basically only the worst skills, bottom tier perk decks, the worst weapons in each class (Amcar, Gruber Kurtz etc.) and playing as the worst characters. While pretty painful on the surface, it would at a minimum have a variety of tools to deal with challenges like Panic Room snipers. Some unique lifelines could be swapping perk decks for a heist, or changing skill build for a heist. Could be interesting to see you suffer through that kappa.
Damage absorb isn't completely a loss. I have used that hostage perk stacked with infiltrator and maxed frenzy or whatever it is called for another 25% res and you can get the damage reduction from using a doctor's bag. It all adds up to something like 80% dmg reduction and the additional flat 4 at that point is good for it's cost. You can convert infantry to hostages as long as you don't joker them on maps without civs.
The secert behind the movement speed skill on armor break. Is to use hitman with duel explose judges. In a ECM rush stealth build.
For me Bullseye is one of the weirdest skills in terms of usefulness from a DSOD perspective. The base skill of getting armour on a headshot is amazing and borderline necessary, however aced it's functionality useless since it just gives you more armour per headshot, which similar to other skills in the video practically isn't a factor on higher difficulties.
When you're taking hundreds of damage per shot, armour-gating is armour-gating regardless of the amount of armour you have, making Bullseye simultaneously one of the best and worst skills for high difficulties.
It's saving grace imo is that on lower difficulties the amount of armour gained is actually a useful thing.
Bullseye aced useful on anarchist. It help you rebuild armor to max since anarchist dont fully recover all at once. Other perk deck not much but on anarchist its Goated
@@c3lest1na45 oh yeah true, I run Anarchist myself and usually ace it since it is useful, but on DS one shot can take out your armour from max anyways, so building it up quicker isn't much use.
This is obviously a DS specific thing and doesn't affect most players, but I find it interesting how the aced version of the skill goes from useful to useless in a DS context.
Its useful on sociopath where the gained armor + socios armorgate ability can make you take another light/shield hit
@@connorfoxton6167 not really, if you go hybrid it really shines. In DS with a archist and suit. Snipers oneshot you without counterplay, but running ana with some armor, allows you to do maps that you cant really reliably do in OD, sience at the end of the day, most of the surv on ana is the invul, and the headshots, suit clutch is really good but gives you bad habits that you feel in OD.
That Shrek bodypillow mod triggered my fight or flight instincts.
Thanks Kknowley.
I fucking hate it.
tbh I find second wind aced on sicario actually pretty good (I run sicario as a support build using drill skills+saw primary so being able to press 3 and give your teammates effectively second wind for the entire length your smoke is up for is fairly good especially when moving bags especially in a public lobby where someone would find a way to go down to a cloaker 50 meters away from him while using anarchist)
Heavy impact is great for Solos w/o crew AI vs shields- it allows you to knock them over and kill them before they get up
Ironically, Dire Need is a really good perk on hybrid armor builds (which, I know don't really prop up often, but it's abusable as high hell alongside second wind, often aced for my allies)
I have a build dedicated to melee and I didn't pick counterstrike, as well as a build dedicated to saws, drills etc. that I either didn't use hardware expert aced on, or at the very least, when rebuilding it after going Infamous (something I won't even have to do any more thanks to the new update) was the last thing I bothered regaining for the build. I didn't use saw massacre for the saw build, either.
That's how useless those three in particular are.
Dire need aced is actually perfectly fine as it is right now in power, it just gets overshadowed by damage since almost all weapons really really want at least one damage skill, the stagger will save you from so many shots even if you use it even with higher damage weapons you can get plenty of value from it with BE so long as its not 1 shot anyways. It is also probably the best way to build up to sneaky bastard which granted usually isn't worth the points without really high conceal but it has its place.
Also sentries do fine on DS, they have a use outside of holdout, they just tend to be expensive. They still do rather well at what they do, they are kind of like extra jokers in a way, they tank quite a few shots thanks to how powerful third law aced is (taking literally 0 damage from the front) and kill rather well.
I really enjoyed this video, Kknowley! I agree on the skill selection completely and wish they would get buffed, as for how I would buff them...
1. Honestly Combat Medic Aced and Up You Go Aced should have the percentages based on max HP but be disabled on Berserker Users.
2. For Trigger-Happy, I would make it so that Base is 120% damage for 3 seconds and Aced is 240% for 1 seconds. If you have the fire-rate to maintain that damage boost you can eat bulldozers even faster with auto-pistols.
3. For Sneaky Bastard I would just make it so that acing it gives a 20% dodge-boost but remove the "1% for every 1 DR beneath 35" shtick.
4. Forced Friendship should just be translated into damage reduction or heavily increase the damage absorption to 10 points. It's very rare you'll be able to find 8 hostages to get the _4 damage absorption_.
5. Counter-Strike Base should deal double of the melee damage on parry while Aced should insta-kill Cloakers, like you suggested.
6. Finally for Saw Massacre the skill would be even better with one change: remove the "Can't pick up ammo" trait from all the weapons that have it (save crossbows and bows). This trait is completely useless and ruins weapons that don't deserve it; besides, OVERKILL can easily make the ammo pick-up atrocious, which would still be better than what we have now.
Thanks for the video again! Stay frosty and keep those helmets flying!
the stagger skills are good against tasers since as the stun interrupts the tase, but even then, most of the time you can just try for a lucky headshot which will usually achieve a better affect.
I use sneaky bastard because I just recently started the game and I don’t have the rogue skill tree maxed out yet, and even then I unequip it when I use a high detection rate, I’d say it’s mainly good for that point in the game where you begin to have sill points, but you’re still working on your perk deck, unless you just play highest difficulty and max out your perk deck relatively early.
It is more so strong on 9/9 Hacker since it has the highest consistent dodge when you kill with the p ecm and it can perform extremely well.
But the issue is the cost. Better of getting other skills that can benefit you like jokers or damage than skills that do nothing or harm you to get Sneaky Bastard.
i hope overkill makes absorption as a stat as good as leech was when it launched. I'd love to run maniac more
You might be the first person I have heard say sneaky bastard isn't worth. While I agree that if you need to ace it, your just better off without it, you can VERY easily make effective weapons while still remaining beneath 5 concealment. Also, the point about its tree being bad just doesn't make much sense to me: You have Duck & cover, a skill I literally never play the game without, and when aced makes running objectives that much easier. Then, parkour, an all around nice boost to mobility, inner pockets, which is 2 free concealment to help get that legendary 3 detection risk, and then shockproof, one of the most powerful perks IMO, due to it hard countering tazers when aced, effectively turning them into SWATs with a bit more health. Combine sneaky bastard with duck and cover, you get 20% dodge when sprinting, which, when playing dodge, is effectively always when you need it. Combined with rogue's 50 dodge, or the 55 you can get when playing hacker, as well as the 5 from the bot bonus (assuming your playing with at least one bot) and the five from suit, you can boost your dodge up to 80 with rogue or 85 with hacker. That makes it 1 in 5 shots as opposed to 1 in 2. WAY better odds for 7 skill points.
The issue is that Sneaky Bastard is often prioritised when you could instead invest in actual useful skills like damage, jokers and deployables.
Even on builds that never need dodge in the first place, which is pretty bad.
The tree has quite a few bad skills.
Duck n cover basic is the best skill.
Aced only benefits dodge builds. 10% is nice for the builds, but most decks do not need to use it at all.
Your point about objectives can only really apply to dodge decks and nothing else. Even then, if you wanted to do objectives easier. Jokers exist. Damage exists. They can let you do objectives so much easier. Being able to let a bot tank the hits for you or kill a lot easier.
Parkour basic, it is only really useful for Flak Jacket and heavier armours. Other than that, the speed is not noticeable and it saves points taking it off.
Aced is even worse. You cannot sprint cancel out of reloads. This is terrible as if you are reloading and a guy is in front of you. You are dead. Even if you argue that melee and deployable cancelling exist, they are both too slow and situational to use all the time.
Even on lower difficulties, you can just save the points and reload patiently in cover instead. Congrats on saving 6 points.
Inner pockets is pretty nice for a lot of builds. Not every build needs it, but it does benefit the majority. 3 detection isn't necessarily needed, 4 does the job so you can add a bit more stats to your guns.
Shockproof is just useless. Thing is, as annoying as they seem. You can just kill them or just have a teammate bail you out.
It's similar to swan song where, it is basically a crutch for inexperienced players when the reality of it is, you are better off not taking it and instead just investing in other things to deal with your problems a lot easier.
Dire need can be a nice skill. Basically its a panic option where once your armour breaks you can just sporadically shoot the swats and just run. As nice as it is, quite expensive and you can often use bullseye basic fine as well.
Forgot to mention. 4 detection heavily limits weapon choices. You can still do well with the weapons, but often you miss out of things like grenade launchers, powerful akimbo smgs/shotguns, etc.
About counterstrike
It is predictable when enemies will melee you. They have a 1.5s cooldown (if im not mistaken on that) and it can only be performed by any cop IF they are targetting you between their shots.
Dozers have bursts of shots except green. Black shoots in like a series of 2-4 (not fully sure on the number), Skull i cant even tell but you can clearly hear and see when he stops, and same goes with minigun dozers. You can rush them, keep attacking, but the moment you see them turn towards you, hold the melee. It can help you kill multiple dozers clumped up at once or in a tough situation, by basically disabling at least one completely.
And Heavy impact ace, only truly shines if you use Vulcan, Microgun or Buzzsaw, since these guns are mostly about bodyshots (which is why you bring body expertise) and they provide the highest Rate of fire in the game simultaneously.
And if you have dire need ace, you can stunlock an entire room, especially if you use anarchist where you can activate it over and over in combat.
What balance I offer to a few of those skills:
-Counterstrike ace: Instakill cloakers instead of knocking them down, without wasting your bloodthirst stacks.
-Forced friendship ace: give at least 30 dmg absorption for one hostage/convert, but only have it work on you and not your team, and the effect is gone after you get hit once. The effect would come back every 3 seconds (just a proposition. could be changed much more drastically, but overkill cant go crazy with dmg absorp or else maniac and 2/9 stoic would just become the new meta and be invincible)
-Combat medic ace: REMOVE the additional health, give us 20% faster interaction speed for getting up teammates only (and reduce inspire base's effect to 30%, so together it becomes 50% if you choose both skills) OR give dmg reduction to only you the less health you have at the start of the interaction. Effect would completely disappear once the interaction is done .
-Far away base and ace: decrease bullet dmg dropoff by 30%, and on ace make it 80%. (what i mean is, increase the distance at which the shotgun keeps its effectiveness based off of what drop off stat it has, and after that distance, have it behave normally)
-Transporter ace: Remove its current effect, give it a speed bonus for each deployable you wield (meaning: if you have 14 first aid kits, its equal to any max amount of the deployables), would give an even bigger boost if you brought the jack of all trades (this basically can give armor builds even more mobility when paired with convert skills)
-Saw massacre base and ace:
Base, gives all the effects of current one as base and ace, except panic.
Ace, gives you the ability to get infinite saw ammo IF you get a kill. Effect stays for 5 seconds and can be chained to be kept on loop resetting its cooldown. (Panic should remain exclusive to sociopath and muscle, and maybe given to other deck or decks)
Bonus to ace: Every X amount of kills, you get one whole saw blade.
-Martial arts base and ace:
Base, you get damage resistance/reduction when wielding a melee weapon equal to 30% (value could be changed)
Ace, gives ability to hold your melee weapon at its max charge (for damage) at any time
(if any of you think thats kinda broken, consider how close you must get to kissing your enemy to reach them with your melee weapon, spend time charging in a corner instead of shooting, or the fact melee is incredibly clunky to use, especially at higher difficulties. I play melee daily but i just want it to shine in some way. It could be changed entirely if Overkill just decided to do so, but if not, they can just up some values, change how chainsaw works and add a second f2p one or smth since you cant get it anymore even)
And you can't forget about how the increase in bag throw was necessary for counterfeit stealth before it was patched out
transporter aced is made for loud and high armor builds
like if there was a perk deck that worked like stoic exept health was converted into armor (exept 1 hp fo obvious reason) transporter would be the best perk for loud heists with lot's of bags (gold beeing a time killer in bank heists)
i like using a silenced mp5. It has pretty poor dmg, but looks cool and the staggering can help with specials like tasers.
It's actually alright at the moment, given the multiple buffs it has been through.
I recall using the stagger-enemies-as-you-shoot-them to deal with shields
Martial Arts Basic atleast is a skill i use on almost all of my builds, it only costs 1 point and the 50% less melee damage taken is surprisingly really great for surviving melee attacks with my playstyle.
Yea, me too
The fact that cloakers turn you before downing you is the reason counterstrike aced is useful. If you start turning, hold melee and you will counter it
heavy impact was pretty fun to use on release, I used to make bulldozers and captain winters go breakdancing with my MGs, sadly the patch inevitably came
I don't know if you know this. But with normal buckshot or 000 buckshot shotguns start getting damage falloff after 20m up to 50m where they stop doing any damage at all. The far away skill increases this to 30m - 75m. Giving you a significant increase in damage over distance. Sure, it isn't the most usefull skill in all situations, but I quite like it. It also makes sniping snipers with shotguns more reliable.
The thing about dodge is that it gets better the more of it you have. 10% dodge chance isn't going to do much by itself, but going from 50% dodge to 60% dodge is a lot more impactful; it's effectively an extra 20% damage mitigation instead of just 10%.
for heavy impact it can be used with some weapon like the ksp for sheilds and you become a turret with nothing stopping it, I used to run it for that reason alone
Second Wind Aced is great for Leech stealth setups. Make your entire team move bags faster by using the ampule. Make your Yakuza player into Sanik the Heghog
Heavy impact is a good skill as it's place within the same tree as body expertise means you're most likely running a build that won't land headshots in order to get that stun chance you'd normally get, that and on higher difficulty's with their tanky enemies that do high damage it's often possible to get one of your precious chips of armor or hp taken away while focusing on one zeal unit.
Just get Shock n awe aced then XD
That one person: CaN YoU BeaT PaYDAy WiTH OnlY thEse SkILLs
Counter-Strike aced is actually not as bad as you'd think. The faster charging/swinging melees are pretty decent with it.
Aced variants of sneaky bastard and low blow are definitely operated imo
Because it only changes the concealment requirements and you can get a plethora of 4 concealment builds with some ridiculously powerful weapons for high difficulty
Nah, the thing is Low Blow is essential to get for basically 75% of builds to kill quickly. That and 23 Detection is huge for both build variety and practicality. Like instead of playing with a worse assault rifle, you can use a really really good assault rifle and afford to have a Grenade Launcher on top.
And on top of all that, it is much much more cheaper to get Low blow aced.
Issue is that Sneaky Bastard is so expensive to get, needing Mediocre, useless or harmful skills to even get to basic. And even the limited perks that can use it well can just skip it. Like the only perks that can play much better with it are Hacker, Rouge and Burglar, but even skipping the 10% dodge which isn't that much won't harm the builds much anyway
I remember i and my friend i played with my friend.
He was a tank that barely moves but does tons of dps and i was support.
I always got into fights to take damage and turn on second wind aced for him and make him go rly fast.(i think it was with king pin but i don't remember)(also we played until deathwish and even some dsod)
It was a fun co-op build.
trigger happy was greatly useful with 3 revolvers, the 120% damage increase lets you kill dozers with a fucking peacekeeper
trigger happy *is* good, he said that. but ACING it is useless.
Cloaker knockdown is rather useful. Say you're in a chaotic gunfight and hear a cloaker charging. Hold E, and you'll be fine. It's good for when you know a cloaker is there, but not exactly where. I use it as a last second counter
heavy impact is useful against shields as itll cause them to stagger. which is really helpful on some heists. with an lmg itll break through to them eventually. mostly with stoic as a tank build
Just use Shock n awe aced XD
My personal fav revolves around dodge and three stryk 18s. It sounds dumb, yet it is really effective, even on heists, that take a long time of shooting and running around. In this case I do find use of those 10% of dodge and of the pistol damage boost. I’m not sure if the boost applies to akimbo pistols as well, but a single stryk 18 seems to slaughter the entire police department just fine on overkill
It also works like a dream on Death Sentence
I do think damage absorbtion needs a difficulty multiplier, something like 0.8x for normal n hard, 1x for overkill n mayhem and then 1.5x for DW n DS... Or just replaced by % dmg reduction so it scales on its own.
As it currently is i don't want to bring maniac above DW, as on DS crew chief alterates the breakpoints to a similar amount more consistently and with less effort.
Sentries are by far the most underrated. Ive been using them for a long time now. They always kick ass!
I find that when using a pure shotgun build, it is much easier to take out snipers with the Far Away perk.
I just actually started using Overkill skill on my judge/AR build coupled with low blow, body expertise, and holy crap the damage I'm landing on Dozers. Useful if you wanna suffer with AMCAR again
I never realized the sneaky bastard skill only gave 10 dodge. I honestly wish you could get more dodge as it seems like an interesting playstyle but pretty much outclassed by the consistency of stuff like anarchist and stoic
There is one thing good about aced Martial Arts, using leather sap makes you a knockout machine
Here's my ideas for perk replacements... if I didn't mention them, I think they're okay.
Combat Medic Aced - additional damage reduction when reviving
Forced Friendship Aced - Multiple hostages can follow you at once
Far Away Aced - Shotgun damage scales up with range while using slugs
Transporter Aced - Carry multiple bags
Saw Massacre Aced - Present benefits + no ammo consumption on unarmored enemies
Hardware Expert Aced - 20% instead of 10%
Heavy Hitter Aced - Bulldozers can be staggered
Dire Need Aced - 30% crit chance when armor is broken
Sneaky Bastard - 20% additional dodge maximum
Trigger Happy Aced - Bonus applies to primary weapon
Up You Go Aced - Revive with full health
Martial Arts Aced - Knockdown applies to all specials except shield
Counter Strike Aced - Enemies about to melee you visibly flash, Cloakers knocked down die instantly
ur transporter aced idea should be 2 bags max, if it were to be ingame. not many places to put full duffel bags on ur body while also having ur guns out lol. or maybe u can put ur guns away to be able to carry 2 (maaaybe 3) bags or smth so it's more a specialist thing instead, cuz i think ur current idea would be so busted it'd trivalise big bank & shadow raid with a full crew
i like the rest tho ur far away aced wouldnt be necessary had OVK just never done fuckin damage range multipliers lol
I don't entirely blame them for the damage multipliers as it helps to specialize the weapons a bit. I'd argue ballistics would be good to help balance weapons-although, really, it'd need to be really exaggerated for it to make a real difference.
Unless they do some kinda street escapes like the movie Heat, we'd rarely engage beyond 50 meters, which anything worth being called a "gun" would be lethal, and likely be zeroed for quite easily... so it's a null point.
Trigger happy ace is really good when you want to shit on minigun dozers
Far away ace is a skill that allows ypu to handle snipers, most maps that have snipers have them at the range where shotgun shots dissapear, and the 50% increased effective range it provides and the conditional acc allows shotguns to actually handle snipers on most if not all maps.
Try shotgun in the map where you have to chase and burn that guy (green bridgw pr somethig like that, its a classic contract) and you will see its value.
I'd imagine counterstrike aced could be usable in a secret ending-specific build.
nah just use a stable LMG.
You talking about an instant kill on cloakers with counterstrike made me think. For payday 3, what if you didn't have to answer pagers, but you had to stealth takedown enemies? And the takedowns took about as much time as the pagers? What if you could ace a high level skill that let you takedown enemies even when you're not in stealth? Maybe different characters have different methods? I for one want to see wolf stab somebody with a drill, wait impatiently for a few seconds then remove it and watch the body fall.
I'm actually a big Far Away fan, if I don't want the lower spread (and I often don't) I'll just hip fire. I'll only ADS if I need to hit a sniper or something further away.