I think that's an inevitable part of any game, if there isn't any bad skill then there isn't any good skill either. The better option imo is having more niche skills that specialized in a specific play style, or only actually good when combined with others.
i mean you can run basically anything on death wish and below and can make it work somehow, a lot of this variation i think is fun and needed, and death sentence is bs anyways that can seldom be played with anything but meta
4:15 I feel that I should add here that saws are even worse than that for bulldozers, IIRC saws should do 500 damage to bulldozers but due to how the code hasn't been updated for this in years medic/minigun dozers do not count for this damage boost. I got this info from RedFlame's Fixed Saw Damage Scaling mod.
Some gripes with a couple choices. Saw massacre aced is surprisingly good because it's one of those misleading skill descriptions. The panic actually works on any kill while you have a saw out, meaning melee, throwables, and DOT will proc this panic. This panic isn't weak either, it's a pretty high chance for a high radius. If you want to see that go to work, try socio with knives and just have a saw out. You'll end up causing quite a ruckus among the enemies. Dire need is a great lifesaving skill too, especially aced. I don't think I can count how many times I've lived just because I shot every enemy of a crowd instead of focusing on killing each one. Dire need is super helpful on more fragile builds.
Dire need is great for grinder builds. Almost all of your time will be spent either with your armor down or in the 6 second window. It's ideal for bullet hoses like miniguns and smgs and the best part about it is you no longer have to fear cloakers or tasers. Obviously, they can be staggered before they attack, but it can also interrupt charges and tases.
Must confess, I wasn't aware of the additional panic effect. This is exactly why I like to make videos like these to learn those little techs and share them community-wide. I almost feel like my overuse of snipers has clouded my opinion on Dire Need, I can definitely see some value in it with other weapons. Thanks as ever Carrot!
@@stevie8271 that wasn't intended to be me suggesting how you should build for sentries. You're absolutely right in pointing out the power of the shield!
You missed what I see as Second Wind's best use. For any stealth heist that turns into a rush, having that constant stream of +30% speed is incredible, paired with some teammates with Yakuza. I generally use an HE Judge to proc the skill, and use it on Diamond Store rushes, but wouldn't be surprised to see it used on Shadow Raid either.
Dire Need is actually pretty powerful, especially when used with automatic weapon, as your shots wont instantly kill enemies, and DN allows you to survive encounters when your amor is down
10:40 I do want to point out that I once ran an almost "Melee Exclusive" build that revolved around going fucking apeshit and because I didnt have time to constantly keep watch, having it constantly charged for the next enemy only for it to be used on a Cloaker who decided to be sneaky is a ton of help.
Even in other builds, you can save yourself by holding melee as soon as you hear the WULULULULULU. Even if you start a milisecond earlier, it still works
My suggestion for combat medic aced is: *"reviving a teammate heals them up to max hp, 60 seconds cooldown. (Does not apply to players with berserk skill unlocked)"* This might be very powerful for lower difficulties but anything good is powerful for them anyways. But it will be really decent for DSOD gameplay if the max health pool is enough to tank at least a single bullet. It's not that expensive as well, would synergize great with inspire.
@@Mi_tala The game is kinda old for skill overhauls like this so i hope payday 3 has a skill tree with at least situationally useful skills at the worst. Some of the current skills in pd2 are both bad in functionality and also values with low percentages. Also the skills are WAY different depending on difficulty, maybe some skills can scale up with difficulty to stay somewhat useful, just an idea.
Combat Medic and Up You Go should give 30% and 40% of your total healthbar when revived. This will be very handy on health-based builds as reviving with 10% health is currently their biggest weakness on higher difficulties. On the other hand, a Muscle player can spring back into action with 80% health without having to waste an extra medkit.
counterpoint imo, most, if not all health tanking perkdeck, has jokers skills that make their lives easier, sure bringing hostage taker aced for Kingpin isnt necessary, but it sure as hell helps. Combat medic, again, ruins berzerker breakpoints, meaning its pretty much exclusively only viable if the entire team runs kingpin muscle crewchief ect
Ehh not really. First Aid Kits are plentiful. Even if you don't bring them, Health decks have ways to quickly regen their health. Only thing you need to do is be more patient for the small time being.
If the health revive skills scaled off your max hp, I could actually see them being fairly useful on DW or mayhem, since they could Massively increase your survivability after getting picked up, depending on the numbers.
Dire need actually not that bad. The aced version actually mean when your armor break all shot will make enemy stagger and effect will last for 6 second more when armor recovered. It help me a few times from cloaker or rushing enemies assuming you cant kill all of them in time and i find it to be abit useful on 168 sniper build that cant hit 255 breakpoint with Overkill aced or Berserker so you can literally stop a group of enemies rushing with graze shot or smg volley. But it still isnt that good because as you said "just make them dead quickly" but for me i do not think it deserve spot on this video since it still have redeeming quality. Overall still a great video keep it up!
Dire need is a really good skill to combine with dodge as it will allow you to stagger enemies while your armor regens, since with dodge your armor is 1 shot
I personally believe it's a bit unfair to lump Sneaky Bastard in the same category as some of these other skills. Sneaky Bastard at the very least has its place in a build were the other skills shouldn't be ran at all, plus Sneaky Bastard can actually bring a Hacker (one kill with Pocket ECM) with Duck And Cover Aced up to 75 dodge which is mental. Though yes, Sneaky Bastard isn't really needed, it's still nice to have to make sure that you aren't going to get hit.
For Counterstrike Aced, personally, I've gotten a lot of use out of it. Sure, when a Cloaker is *right in front of you* and you're staring at him, sure, it's like 'Just kill him, he's right there.' But for those moments when I'm focused on the 300 other cops trying to kill me, and I just suddenly hear their noise out of nowhere, well, just quickly hold the melee button and boom. Vulnerable. And personally, I never know when the Cloakers are actually going to jump and kick, so I prefer to have it as a back up.
*look around* *shoot cloaker* problem solved! either way, i understand using Counterstrike, quite fun when you beat the shit out of the cloaker that tried to dropkick you
Second Wind Aced is especially useful when a Sicario is running it. Since Sicario is build around taking damage, you can activate Second Wind a lot of the time. I'd say it's most useful on Mayhem, where you don't get punished as hard for playing clumsily and not focussing on your armour. Plus I very much appreciate others running it on dodge builds as if they're playing badly I still get something out of it :)
As a more casual player, I honestly think Biker is a somewhat slept-on perk deck. Though its not DW viable to my knowledge and it encourages a more selfish playstyle, it rewards a more aggressive playstyle, similar to Leech, Stoic, Grinder, or other active regenerator perk decks. Its also possible to armor gate with Biker since kills reward both health and armor. Even then, Biker allows you to play more objective based when you have three other teammates running around on a mass murder spree.
biker is the kind of perk deck that could be buffed with mods to make it DW viable, maybe some youtuber should make a mod pack of perk decks buffed to dw
I definitely get what you mean. I think an argument can be made that as long as you have a perk deck, skills are entirely optional for Overkill and down so I prefer to focus the discussion at the higher difficulty levels. It's also worth mentioning that my goal isn't to tell people to not use any of these skills, more so to discuss, find uses and potentially point Overkill towards the skills that need slight adjustments.
Honestly the tier 2 revenant skills could really use some reworking, being revived with a little more health is nice, until you consider that most perk decks have some form of health regeneration already. Maybe making one of the skills increase the amount of health you're revived with based on how many enemies you killed while downed would be something neat to play around with
I think you're underestimating some health-centered builds like stoic or supportive builds like crew chief when it comes to more health. If you have stoic and more health on revive it'll be much difficult to get instadowned immediately. As for crew chief, idk if a good dsod crew chief build exists but if it does then it can be very good because it pretty much multiplies all crew skills, especially if you are in loud with many hostages and arrested cops. For the dodge skill, I typically use it to try to get the most amount of dodge (and often crit) with the highest damaging weapons. On unaced I can get to probably 6 detection and still have +10 dodge, but acing the skill allows me to get more like 10-15 detection and pretty much still have a dodge loadout. What about the skill that automatically turns in a hostage when you get arrested? I think that skill isn't very viable because ideally you wouldn't want to go downed, and when hostages exchange it's at a point in the heist that combat has died down anyways so usually it's not difficult for a teammate to grab them.
HP-based deck usually uses FAKs and/or Hostage taker so a little extra HP on revive didn't do that much (it'll probably work for OVK difficulty but on DS? you *probably* still got 1 shotted by Heavy with or without the extra HP on revive) the dodge skill is a bit hard to justify... cuz on one hand you get 10% extra dodge, but on the other hand it's ONLY 10% with hacker you can get 55% without any dodge skills and without concerning your detection I do agree on Stockholm Syndrome being bad tho, 9 total point for a skill that didn't do much the basic version is good for stealth tho
crew chief is actually unironically amazing, beats out a good chunk of perk decks, it helps everyone on the team, gives free 2 shot ictv breakpoint, more health, more tankiness, its great, sucks for zerk users but its fine imo. as for dodge, its a bit of a mess to explain but essentially 10% doesnt matter as much as to decks with already high dodge (hacker gives 55 with no skills) *and additionally* relying on dodge is considered bad anyway, bad in a way where the game becomes a lot more unpredictable compared to decks that give 100% risk return
7:47 sneaky bastard aced is more for builds that use guns that don’t reach perfect 3 detection as the threshold to reach max dodge such as using a weapon with a higher mag size than spend points on skills, which makes sneaky bastard aced more situational, base is there if you are going for 3 detection anyways to top of rouge or sicario
To give heavy impact some credit, microgun + heavy impact is a great way to crowd control and makes shields a joke without needing a special weapon to deal with them
heavy impact actually sounds like it would have synergy with the grimm 12g + dragonbreath combo. The initial damage is super low, it's playstyle is all about spray & pray and dragonbreath also has an innate stun chance.
You might be the first person I have heard say sneaky bastard isn't worth. While I agree that if you need to ace it, your just better off without it, you can VERY easily make effective weapons while still remaining beneath 5 concealment. Also, the point about its tree being bad just doesn't make much sense to me: You have Duck & cover, a skill I literally never play the game without, and when aced makes running objectives that much easier. Then, parkour, an all around nice boost to mobility, inner pockets, which is 2 free concealment to help get that legendary 3 detection risk, and then shockproof, one of the most powerful perks IMO, due to it hard countering tazers when aced, effectively turning them into SWATs with a bit more health. Combine sneaky bastard with duck and cover, you get 20% dodge when sprinting, which, when playing dodge, is effectively always when you need it. Combined with rogue's 50 dodge, or the 55 you can get when playing hacker, as well as the 5 from the bot bonus (assuming your playing with at least one bot) and the five from suit, you can boost your dodge up to 80 with rogue or 85 with hacker. That makes it 1 in 5 shots as opposed to 1 in 2. WAY better odds for 7 skill points.
The issue is that Sneaky Bastard is often prioritised when you could instead invest in actual useful skills like damage, jokers and deployables. Even on builds that never need dodge in the first place, which is pretty bad. The tree has quite a few bad skills. Duck n cover basic is the best skill. Aced only benefits dodge builds. 10% is nice for the builds, but most decks do not need to use it at all. Your point about objectives can only really apply to dodge decks and nothing else. Even then, if you wanted to do objectives easier. Jokers exist. Damage exists. They can let you do objectives so much easier. Being able to let a bot tank the hits for you or kill a lot easier. Parkour basic, it is only really useful for Flak Jacket and heavier armours. Other than that, the speed is not noticeable and it saves points taking it off. Aced is even worse. You cannot sprint cancel out of reloads. This is terrible as if you are reloading and a guy is in front of you. You are dead. Even if you argue that melee and deployable cancelling exist, they are both too slow and situational to use all the time. Even on lower difficulties, you can just save the points and reload patiently in cover instead. Congrats on saving 6 points. Inner pockets is pretty nice for a lot of builds. Not every build needs it, but it does benefit the majority. 3 detection isn't necessarily needed, 4 does the job so you can add a bit more stats to your guns. Shockproof is just useless. Thing is, as annoying as they seem. You can just kill them or just have a teammate bail you out. It's similar to swan song where, it is basically a crutch for inexperienced players when the reality of it is, you are better off not taking it and instead just investing in other things to deal with your problems a lot easier. Dire need can be a nice skill. Basically its a panic option where once your armour breaks you can just sporadically shoot the swats and just run. As nice as it is, quite expensive and you can often use bullseye basic fine as well. Forgot to mention. 4 detection heavily limits weapon choices. You can still do well with the weapons, but often you miss out of things like grenade launchers, powerful akimbo smgs/shotguns, etc.
sneaky bastard aced is actually kinda useful, if you get the basic version you can only have a max of 3 DR (Detection rating) BUT if you get the aced version you can go all the way up to 23 DR! same goes with the crit skill also SB aced is useful when you're doing grinder, those extra few points of dodge help quite a bit imo
Yeah its weird to call it a noob trap since he gives passes to things like turrets or the skills in the shotgunner tree for enabling playstyles. SB Aced enables some very strong weapon choices for dodge builds even on higher levels, like the stupid fun DMR dodge builds you can get away with. And for PD2 ive always felt you kinda have to use DW as the one difficulty to check if the build/playstyle is actually good, since ever since it came out, DS has always had between 1-3 builds that are viable for that difficulty
I think the Counterstrike knockdown effect should deal damage, both basic and aced, to give it something for melee builds. As for Trigger Happy, maybe the damage boost could stack on the Aced version, to really pack a bigger punch, or work like Overkill Aced.
I honestly really like heavy impact: i use an LMG with the world renowned tactic of "spray and pray until everything's dead", and with the particular weapon i use, headshots are difficult at best once you've been firing for more than like 4 rounds, when i often go for over 100 consecutively, so the stagger does actually come in very useful. Having the enemies dead IS better than having them on the floor but alive, but by that same logic, having a lot of enemies incapacitated (whether it's from being knocked to the ground, supressed from the sheer volume of high-threat fire, or, yes, dead) is better than them all being on their feet and firing at you. Although, i'm an infamy 1 scrub who never plays above mayhem, so obviously my opinion doesn't matter /lh
i will add, i am currently working my way back up to a high enough level to use Body Expertise, so it's kinda just a stopgap, but it's likely going to be a part of my build until level 80 at least, just because of how effective its been i know that nobody cares but this has been in the back of my mind since i posted it
For me Bullseye is one of the weirdest skills in terms of usefulness from a DSOD perspective. The base skill of getting armour on a headshot is amazing and borderline necessary, however aced it's functionality useless since it just gives you more armour per headshot, which similar to other skills in the video practically isn't a factor on higher difficulties. When you're taking hundreds of damage per shot, armour-gating is armour-gating regardless of the amount of armour you have, making Bullseye simultaneously one of the best and worst skills for high difficulties. It's saving grace imo is that on lower difficulties the amount of armour gained is actually a useful thing.
Bullseye aced useful on anarchist. It help you rebuild armor to max since anarchist dont fully recover all at once. Other perk deck not much but on anarchist its Goated
@@c3lest1na45 oh yeah true, I run Anarchist myself and usually ace it since it is useful, but on DS one shot can take out your armour from max anyways, so building it up quicker isn't much use. This is obviously a DS specific thing and doesn't affect most players, but I find it interesting how the aced version of the skill goes from useful to useless in a DS context.
@@connorfoxton6167 not really, if you go hybrid it really shines. In DS with a archist and suit. Snipers oneshot you without counterplay, but running ana with some armor, allows you to do maps that you cant really reliably do in OD, sience at the end of the day, most of the surv on ana is the invul, and the headshots, suit clutch is really good but gives you bad habits that you feel in OD.
Far Away isn't there to "enable a playstyle", it's there to allow shotguns to handle snipers. Without it you get picked apart by them, with it you have at least a reasonable chance at being able to pick them off. Ditto for the SWATs fucking your ally at medium to long range from you. You're completely off-base on this one. Hardware Expert Aced is supposed to be paired with Kickstarter Aced for your crew's designated technician or "drill guy". It's not really "situational" just because it's not something everyone should take. But it's absolutely a useful skill to have if you're investing in drill skills. Once again, you're completely off-base. Your Heavy Impact take is...whoof, where to even start. "Have you ever even fired four bullets into an enemy in Payday 2", yes it's called Assault Rifles and LMGs, two entire classes of weapon that you seem to be deliberately ignoring which are massively buffed by this skill. Being able to spray down a room and stunlock a bunch of enemies makes LMGs with this skill second only to flamethrowers for sheer crowd control. Being able to regularly interrupt Cloakers, knock back shields to make them easier to flank...the list goes on. Heavy Impact is far from useless, it's almost a necessity if you're running ARs or LMGs and it gives you great crowd control options. "Just shoot to kill" is honestly a pretty mediocre take. Sounds fine on paper, but I'd rather be able to lock down a room and then start working my way down the priority list than try to focus on clean kills when I'm taking fire from three different directions. Just because a skill doesn't fit in *your* playstyle doesn't mean it does not have a use. You talk about Sneaky Bastard being bad...and then point out the one and only time you're really supposed to use it (high-concealment dodge builds). Also, your appraisal of Dodge in general is pretty trash. It's fun and it's viable, so what if it isn't perfect. For Martial Arts Aced you once again take a skill that is meant to be paired with another...and complain that it sucks because it isn't viable on its own. Yeah, no shit Sherlock. Overall, 5/10, better luck next time.
With far away. Usually you'd have something else in tandem with a shotgun like an automatic weapon in either your primary or secondary. Usually you'd just use them for Snipers/Bulldozers, even with the likes of an lmg or (akimbo) smg, they can deal with snipers quite well. And even excluding them, you'd have something like a HE/AP Judge, you have a shotgun with the Flechette rounds, etc. Snipers really aren't that bad at all to deal with if you know what you are doing. For hardware expert aced. It is situational. Not everyone should take it. While it can feel nice, Kickstarter aced exists. Drill Sawgeant aced is really nice as is. As nice as the extra stat is, it's preferable to use those points for something else. Even under those circumstances. Dire need exists. The stagger is quite useful, but it really outclasses Heavy impact since it can trigger a lot more consistently. Also cloakers really aren't a threat. The skill while I agree can be really useful, you can understandably run without it. What's more necessary would be damage skill. If you are taking damage from all sides, you are doing something wrong. You should be using cover to minimise the damage taken or be killing quick enough to do the same. Dodge is pretty overrated. The 10%+ extra dodge can be nice, but you can also just take other better skills for survival like Jokers and Hostage Taker aced. You get shot much much less often and can make your health a lot more consistent to use. That is a lot better than more dodge is and is often what people skip over. For Martial arts aced. Even in a vacuum, it just isn't really useful. Mainly in that, unlike Automatic weapons where you probably won't kill them in one hit. With melees you should, or if not at least use them for bulldozers/taze them. I can agree with some things, but some of the useful things often can be countered gameplay wise or another skill exists that can outperform the skill.
@@emberz3778 "With far away. Usually you'd have something else in tandem with a shotgun like an automatic weapon in either your primary or secondary." Be as that may, Far Away gives you far more flexibility in being able to deal with threats at multiple ranges. The notion that it is "useless" is absurd and counterfactual. "For hardware expert aced. It is situational. Not everyone should take it. While it can feel nice, Kickstarter aced exists. Drill Sawgeant aced is really nice as is. As nice as the extra stat is, it's preferable to use those points for something else." Hard disagree from substantial personal experience. But it's your build, it doesn't have to be optimal. "If you are taking damage from all sides, you are doing something wrong. You should be using cover to minimise the damage taken or be killing quick enough to do the same." Yeah, not always possible with Payday's map design. And again, being able to stunlock most of a room full of enemies is a big benefit, regardless of what you or the OP says.
@@halfpasteight For your first point, that's why an smg is more preferred. It deals with threats from snipers to bulldozers better and cheaper than far away. It can be nice, but pretty expensive for situations you can easily do regardless of the skill. For the second point. Again, if you like it then ok. But generally still not that great considering you can just use those points to invest in other better skills. No, you definitely can prevent taking multiple hits. It's why dsod solo's are possible, it's why Death Sentence in general is easier than a lot of people give credit for. Even for some of the more open maps like Goat Simulator. They do give you multiple areas to use cover in like the sides of the town offer flowerbeds, cars, pillars, etc. Just have to learn the cover spots and strategies. I agree that stunlocking swats in general can be quite useful, issue is that it isn't Heavy Impact and more so Dire need is the good skill.
*I find Heavy Impact aced to be pretty useful* I use it on my lmg builds to take care of shields without having to switch weapons, I just shoot at them a couple of times and execute them when they hit the floor
Then just take Shock n awe aced. Not only can it be more effective, but it actually won't hinder your build as much. It is awkward trying to fit Heavy Impact when you are going for Body expertise, when you can just get surefire and lock n load instead. At least Shock n awe is a lot easier to fit in and also helps with armour regen.
If knockdown was buffed so it affect all enemies that your target falls into get knocked over by them it could be interesting and turn Payday 3 into a bowling sim
You have no idea the amount sneaky bastard helps in my smg dodge build, that extra 10% dodge let's me have the confidence to drop dozers and do objectives like moving bags
Here's my ideas for perk replacements... if I didn't mention them, I think they're okay. Combat Medic Aced - additional damage reduction when reviving Forced Friendship Aced - Multiple hostages can follow you at once Far Away Aced - Shotgun damage scales up with range while using slugs Transporter Aced - Carry multiple bags Saw Massacre Aced - Present benefits + no ammo consumption on unarmored enemies Hardware Expert Aced - 20% instead of 10% Heavy Hitter Aced - Bulldozers can be staggered Dire Need Aced - 30% crit chance when armor is broken Sneaky Bastard - 20% additional dodge maximum Trigger Happy Aced - Bonus applies to primary weapon Up You Go Aced - Revive with full health Martial Arts Aced - Knockdown applies to all specials except shield Counter Strike Aced - Enemies about to melee you visibly flash, Cloakers knocked down die instantly
ur transporter aced idea should be 2 bags max, if it were to be ingame. not many places to put full duffel bags on ur body while also having ur guns out lol. or maybe u can put ur guns away to be able to carry 2 (maaaybe 3) bags or smth so it's more a specialist thing instead, cuz i think ur current idea would be so busted it'd trivalise big bank & shadow raid with a full crew i like the rest tho ur far away aced wouldnt be necessary had OVK just never done fuckin damage range multipliers lol
I don't entirely blame them for the damage multipliers as it helps to specialize the weapons a bit. I'd argue ballistics would be good to help balance weapons-although, really, it'd need to be really exaggerated for it to make a real difference. Unless they do some kinda street escapes like the movie Heat, we'd rarely engage beyond 50 meters, which anything worth being called a "gun" would be lethal, and likely be zeroed for quite easily... so it's a null point.
Personally, I like the stagger effect with Vulcan Minigun. For when you just can't kill that one enemy fast enough, you can just stagger. Because if they aren't shooting, they're not killing you. [also i 100% wish 'nade launchers could crit]
I actually really love Far Away it is. To save points, a decent amount of my shotgun builds only have shotguns unless I take Overkill aced. But without some semi iss accurate weapons, shotguns are extremely bad against Snipers. But with 3 to 9 nine skill points and some modding, most shotguns can now actually hit snipers from very long distance away which makes life infinitely easier imo.
I'm late, but I feel like I should expand on Combat Medic Aced being arse here: The way you presented it, it seems as if you might be under the impression it's +30% *maximum* health. I mean, the skill reads like that right? But oh no, it's not +30% maximum health. It's not even +30% extra health when revived. It's +30% *of the health you would otherwise receive when being revived.* Which means you get +30% of 10% of your Max Health on Mayhem and above, which works out to a whole 3% of your max health. For your average 230 health heister, that's a whopping *_6.9_* (nice) health. Even for the best case scenario, that being a Muscle user (Not Stoic in ICTV, it's 45-odd vs. 460) they gain only 13.8 extra health. The only people who care about that much health on Deathwish, never mind Death Sentence, is the berserker you just accidentally pushed to a lower breakpoint when you revived them. It's complete pants.
You should do a video on the worst original 2013 skills, like the one that slightly reduced the cost of crafting masks and the one that slightly increased the chance of getting an infamous mask.
Cloaker knockdown is rather useful. Say you're in a chaotic gunfight and hear a cloaker charging. Hold E, and you'll be fine. It's good for when you know a cloaker is there, but not exactly where. I use it as a last second counter
The fact that cloakers turn you before downing you is the reason counterstrike aced is useful. If you start turning, hold melee and you will counter it
I don't know if you know this. But with normal buckshot or 000 buckshot shotguns start getting damage falloff after 20m up to 50m where they stop doing any damage at all. The far away skill increases this to 30m - 75m. Giving you a significant increase in damage over distance. Sure, it isn't the most usefull skill in all situations, but I quite like it. It also makes sniping snipers with shotguns more reliable.
The thing about dodge is that it gets better the more of it you have. 10% dodge chance isn't going to do much by itself, but going from 50% dodge to 60% dodge is a lot more impactful; it's effectively an extra 20% damage mitigation instead of just 10%.
Far Away tends to be best if you need to deal with snipers. Though it still is situational, it can be good on heists like Big Bank and Transport: Crossroads if you're running a Shotgun/Saw build. Even then, having that ability to get some extra range out of your shotgun if needed is nice to have as a "just in case" sort of thing.
underdog aced in higher difficulties can actually be a detriment - if it expires while you're being shot at by a heavy swat, you'll take 202.5 damage from one shot and then get immediately graced by the same cop dealing 225 damage. in some cases this is just a death sentence and you will die from it, eg zerk anarchists
I’ve found that sneaky bastard works pretty well with a hacker dodge setup. Having passive dodge is nice to fall back on while you wait for your mini ecm to recharge
About heavy impact though, it's not a case of shoot an enemy 4 times and they will stagger, but 1 in 4 bullets will cause a stagger, i.e if you hit 4 enemies with 4 bullets 1 (or more or less) will be staggered. It's really useful for spraying into crowds with smgs and lmgs, and useful for turning any automatic weapon into anti shield
I haven’t seen anyone else mentioning it, but Counterstrike Aced has a very niche use that I consider valuable. It makes doing White House True Ending solo very easy. If you bring AI, you just gotta be patient, but otherwise you’re pretty much invincible. Incredibly niche, but if you mainly play solo like me, it can make that section far less frustrating (if still just as tedious)
Heavy impact does have good impact on LMG builds, since with how many bullets that are fired acing it is never a neccesity, more just for excess points. Problem is when you factor in BE in the same tree, effectively turning every bullet into a headshot... yeah....
I find that the stagger mechanic is actually detrimental. Like you said, a dead enemy can't fight at all while a staggered enemy recovers. Yet it throws off your aim by making enemy movement less predictable.
tbf, on builds with a very slow firing primary weapon, like the 500 damage tier of snipers, i think counterstrike aced makes more sense because of how slow those weapons can cycle, shooting a cloaker in the face is less reliable when you have over a second between shots and you get surprised
Damage absorb isn't completely a loss. I have used that hostage perk stacked with infiltrator and maxed frenzy or whatever it is called for another 25% res and you can get the damage reduction from using a doctor's bag. It all adds up to something like 80% dmg reduction and the additional flat 4 at that point is good for it's cost. You can convert infantry to hostages as long as you don't joker them on maps without civs.
I have an interesting idea for a challenge run. Whatever skills and perk deck you choose, you are stuck with, and every heist, your guns, your melee and your throwable are all randomized. You have to make a build that can work with anything
Counterstrike aced actually does have a legit (Albeit somewhat niche) use for one of my builds, which uses a flamethrower as their primary weapons. This usually can't kill the Cloaker in time (I use Bloodthirst with a Fire Axe to handle Dozers), nor can I swap to my secondary in time, meaning Cloakers are kind of the build's only weakness. As a result, Counterstrike is good to have as a "just in case" option, especially since the build is often far away from teammates.
I’ve always loved second wind for my grinder build. When you don’t have much armor and are still pretty spongy getting a huge boost in speed after getting clapped by a sniper or punched by a dozer can get you out of a lot of bad spots.
Personally, I run kickstarter aced with the golden spoon because fuck stealth, I didn’t cue up “I will give you my all” to play quiet. Restarting the drill with a spoon is hilarious
i mean the anarchist transporter trick works in loud too if you have a heist with lots of gold (eg brooklyn bank/big bank). when you have a joker and lbv or hbv, you move faster than walking speed when carrying gold. which is...suprisingly helpful.
as a sociopath main that very often has a katana out, it’s surprising how much value i’ve gotten from counterstrike aced it’s saved me on dozens of occasions from being downed by that one cloaker that you’re too distracted to actually notice is charging you and not someone else still a meme but i don’t regret the 9 points i spent
How 5:44 applies to Shock and Awe aswell but sadly missing, ammo efficiency is important. And Body Expertise is missing for almost every gun in the game doesn't need it, and guns that do are overall overshadowed or it's just outright better to still aim for the head and take damage/crit instead.
Body Expertise is a controversial skill for years, but it boils down to this. Even if you do aim well, it is still better to have Body Expertise since it makes aiming so much more easier and killing faster. It is a lot easier aiming for the body than for the head. And with Crit builds, you would preferably take both. It still makes killing swats a whole lot easier.
@@emberz3778 If you had the points, it is 28 points for not aiming for the head, just aim for the head you'll either do it out of instinct or you'll never be able to play another shooter or playstyle again. Microgun and Micro Uzi are the only that need it, every other getting damage is just better. If it would work on dozers... And god 28 points for slight to good ammo efficiency increase and thrown out muscle memory of to head flicks.
@@inybisinsulate Well for one, you yourself could still just aim for the head. No one is stopping you. Just that, there is a reason why everyone is taking Body Expertise on Automatics. Second, people take the skill on automatics in general. Assault rifles, Lmgs, Akimbo smgs. I am quite surprised not to see any of the lmgs mentioned. But yeah same thing of, it makes things a lot more convenient. Even with good aim, you can aim for an easier target and kill faster. In a game that has a difficulty where you can die in less than a second, it does come in handy to just spray at their body. For bulldozers. Not denying it doesn't work on them. Though you will be mainly fighting swats and other special units and even when you do meet them, you should have a damage up by now. Even with an lmg, unseen strike exists and even without taking it, it is still powerful enough that it is understandable to just tank their damage and still go for Body Expertise. You are overreacting XD You are acting as if the skill makes you a worse player. Thing is it only helps great players and makes the lives of players that don't have god like aim have an easier life. You can understandable not take it, but I just want to explain why it is so popular.
I have no issue with the sentries needing commitment to play, I just wish you could repair sentries that die or buff their dmg to make them worth playing outside of stacking 4 in one spot
@@fiyahquacker2835 on mayhem+ a base enemy has 480 health, meaning that it takes 7 shots to kill, this means that if you want to actually do anything you need 3+ sentries per spot, this is not even counting specialist units that have higher hp and as such they can tear down your nest without effort
You can easily tank with armour on Death Sentence, Armourer is one of the best perks in the game. Heck even Stoic is a health tank deck and that perks is the 1/2nd best perk in the game.
I really enjoyed this video, Kknowley! I agree on the skill selection completely and wish they would get buffed, as for how I would buff them... 1. Honestly Combat Medic Aced and Up You Go Aced should have the percentages based on max HP but be disabled on Berserker Users. 2. For Trigger-Happy, I would make it so that Base is 120% damage for 3 seconds and Aced is 240% for 1 seconds. If you have the fire-rate to maintain that damage boost you can eat bulldozers even faster with auto-pistols. 3. For Sneaky Bastard I would just make it so that acing it gives a 20% dodge-boost but remove the "1% for every 1 DR beneath 35" shtick. 4. Forced Friendship should just be translated into damage reduction or heavily increase the damage absorption to 10 points. It's very rare you'll be able to find 8 hostages to get the _4 damage absorption_. 5. Counter-Strike Base should deal double of the melee damage on parry while Aced should insta-kill Cloakers, like you suggested. 6. Finally for Saw Massacre the skill would be even better with one change: remove the "Can't pick up ammo" trait from all the weapons that have it (save crossbows and bows). This trait is completely useless and ruins weapons that don't deserve it; besides, OVERKILL can easily make the ammo pick-up atrocious, which would still be better than what we have now. Thanks for the video again! Stay frosty and keep those helmets flying!
Something for you to test: Does "Dire Need" work with "Graze"? If you shoot someone when your armour breaks, could you stagger a whole corridor's worth of enemies in one go, or does the bullet actually need to hit them to count?
a few things to counter 1: hardware expert aced stacks with kickstarter 2: if you have a hyper-fast firing weapon like the 18C pistol then it can stunlock enemies for heavy impact 3: if you get snuck up upon by a cloaker and just now hear the sound, you can evade death by just pulling out your melee at random thats it rn I guess, revenant goes hand in hand with ex-president ig idk I'm shit at the game lol
Ironically, Dire Need is a really good perk on hybrid armor builds (which, I know don't really prop up often, but it's abusable as high hell alongside second wind, often aced for my allies)
You talking about an instant kill on cloakers with counterstrike made me think. For payday 3, what if you didn't have to answer pagers, but you had to stealth takedown enemies? And the takedowns took about as much time as the pagers? What if you could ace a high level skill that let you takedown enemies even when you're not in stealth? Maybe different characters have different methods? I for one want to see wolf stab somebody with a drill, wait impatiently for a few seconds then remove it and watch the body fall.
out of all these skills, counterstrike is the only one i really used on DS. When ur running a melee build with no intention of buffing or really using the guns you bring you end up holding the melee out pretty much all of the time so it blocks a ton of damage
Honestly, I've thought bout sneaky btard being too strange as for right now. The thing is - 10% on 0-5 base evade is prety much nothing. BUT 10% when you're already have like 50+ is like hell of much. I'd build w/ 80% evade (while sprint obv). So SB actualy gave me like solid 1/3 of my resists (70 + 10 from SB). I just do not understand why it is capped at 10 and why do perc decs give so much of flat/active evasion.
Martial Arts Basic atleast is a skill i use on almost all of my builds, it only costs 1 point and the 50% less melee damage taken is surprisingly really great for surviving melee attacks with my playstyle.
Am I missing something about sneaky bastard? Yeah ten dodge isn't a lot but when running dodge decks like hacker it's possible to get up to 75 dodge while sprinting. I'd never get it if I wasnt running a dodge build however. Edit: I'm a convert sb feels very underwhelming even on high dodge setups. Especially for hacker where I can spend those points on extra crits or utility skills
SB is also a skill that works best on high dodge setups. The math has been done, but in summary SB is better the higher your dodge is. If you take SB on Crook, don't expect to be dodging a lot more. If you take SB on Hacker with PCM bonus dodge active, the difference can be very noticeable. It is also, as mentioned, horribly point expensive. In the majority of cases you are better off investing into other skills for DPS or deployables to support your team and kill cops better, since the (usually very slight) extra survivability is generally not worth the points. It can be very powerful on Hacker though.
@@convergentseries3508 yeah I understand that it's not worth unless I'm running a dodge build like hacker (75 dodge while sprinting is so awesome) but I'd never get it with something like anarchist especially since I rarely go beyond duck and cover basic and parkour basic when not running a dodge build.
I thought "Kickstarter" skill didn't work by itself , without aced "Hardware Expert" skill . It also writes on Kickstarter - gives an ADDITIONAL 20% restart effect . Key word "additional" here , meaning , adding to the already equiped Hardware expert - which you must have . Am i wrong ? I tested it a few times in the past and Kickstarter didn't came in effect in without Hardware Expert Aced ... did they change the mechanics or was i just out of luck ?
I never realized the sneaky bastard skill only gave 10 dodge. I honestly wish you could get more dodge as it seems like an interesting playstyle but pretty much outclassed by the consistency of stuff like anarchist and stoic
EDIT: After typing this i realised that he was talking about the Basic and not the Aced version of Kickstarter and yeah i fully agree there. However for those that thinks Kickstarted Aced is still good i will leave my take on it below. 5:30 i would argue that Kickstarter aced is even worse then Hardware Expert aced considering how many points u need to get to it and in what situations its actually useful. In stealth its almost useless becouse if u are drilling open a vault odds are that u have already cleared the area so u dont really have a good reson from a gameplay pespective to run around anymore with some very heist specific exceptions. Also while using the bot ability (Quick) u get a massive interaction speed boost that multiply with each bot u have to the point that it is faster to just restart the drill and not risk a 50% chans that it wont restart from hitting it. Its best usage in stealth is opening several cages at once but even there u tend to be able to get a keychain as map loot or asset in pre planning and its effect goes down the more players are in your lobby. Its best usage are instead in loud heists like Green Bridge and the Transport heists when u need to open several trucks at once placed in the open and its for the most part impossable to cover them all. Unlike the stealth portion here its value goes up the more ppl u play with becouse ppl may not use the AI (Quick) ability or if your in a full team of 4 there are no bots. Here is a quick example how powerful that AI ability really is. I tend to run stealth solo only becouse public stealth is a meme for a reson and those that have tried it know what i´m talking about. However i did a Big Bank 4 ppl Stealth and was gonna get the keycard in the safe behind the painting inside the managers office. Solo with the AI quick boost it takes around 10-12 sec to open. With no AI it takes 45 sec to open. So spending a minimum of 12 points to get to an ability that in theory only works 50% of the times is not a good ide when most loud builds already have to give up 1 or 2 abilitys becouse of how strict they are with there points distributions.
I'd like to see a similar video like this one but instead talking about the absolutely huge arsenal of practically useless weapons the game has on offer
I really, really hope Payday 3 has a new, more refined skill system that doesn't feature so many underwhealming skills that nobody really uses.
I think that's an inevitable part of any game, if there isn't any bad skill then there isn't any good skill either. The better option imo is having more niche skills that specialized in a specific play style, or only actually good when combined with others.
I want specialized killing back 😭
i mean you can run basically anything on death wish and below and can make it work somehow, a lot of this variation i think is fun and needed, and death sentence is bs anyways that can seldom be played with anything but meta
what i hope is there are many different op builds, rather than 3 op builds
+5 to melee damage when?
4:15 I feel that I should add here that saws are even worse than that for bulldozers, IIRC saws should do 500 damage to bulldozers but due to how the code hasn't been updated for this in years medic/minigun dozers do not count for this damage boost.
I got this info from RedFlame's Fixed Saw Damage Scaling mod.
Some gripes with a couple choices. Saw massacre aced is surprisingly good because it's one of those misleading skill descriptions. The panic actually works on any kill while you have a saw out, meaning melee, throwables, and DOT will proc this panic. This panic isn't weak either, it's a pretty high chance for a high radius. If you want to see that go to work, try socio with knives and just have a saw out. You'll end up causing quite a ruckus among the enemies.
Dire need is a great lifesaving skill too, especially aced. I don't think I can count how many times I've lived just because I shot every enemy of a crowd instead of focusing on killing each one. Dire need is super helpful on more fragile builds.
Dire need is great for grinder builds. Almost all of your time will be spent either with your armor down or in the 6 second window. It's ideal for bullet hoses like miniguns and smgs and the best part about it is you no longer have to fear cloakers or tasers. Obviously, they can be staggered before they attack, but it can also interrupt charges and tases.
@@jimass13 It's also great for sicario and anarchist since your armor is always going up and down
also he didnt take the sentry T1 aced (protective shield) when showing his sentry tree to get to t4
Must confess, I wasn't aware of the additional panic effect. This is exactly why I like to make videos like these to learn those little techs and share them community-wide. I almost feel like my overuse of snipers has clouded my opinion on Dire Need, I can definitely see some value in it with other weapons. Thanks as ever Carrot!
@@stevie8271 that wasn't intended to be me suggesting how you should build for sentries. You're absolutely right in pointing out the power of the shield!
You missed what I see as Second Wind's best use. For any stealth heist that turns into a rush, having that constant stream of +30% speed is incredible, paired with some teammates with Yakuza. I generally use an HE Judge to proc the skill, and use it on Diamond Store rushes, but wouldn't be surprised to see it used on Shadow Raid either.
Yeah, second wind aced is top tier for ECM rushing from what I've seen.
search for marcmb
@@thy422 but ecm rushing is Just stupid
@@A-BYTE94 diamond store emc rush: am i a joke to you?
@@A-BYTE94 nah ecm rushes is the fastest way if you want to level up and infamy grind, so its not stupid as you may seem.
Dire Need is actually pretty powerful, especially when used with automatic weapon, as your shots wont instantly kill enemies, and DN allows you to survive encounters when your amor is down
10:40 I do want to point out that I once ran an almost "Melee Exclusive" build that revolved around going fucking apeshit and because I didnt have time to constantly keep watch, having it constantly charged for the next enemy only for it to be used on a Cloaker who decided to be sneaky is a ton of help.
Cloaker: SNEAK ATTACK BITCH
Meme melee build user: *countered* i dont hear ya laughing now
Even in other builds, you can save yourself by holding melee as soon as you hear the WULULULULULU.
Even if you start a milisecond earlier, it still works
I genuinely enjoy melee builds, running as Jiro and screaming as i slash my enemies
There will be bloodshed
Melee is fun just unviable for harder heists
@@Brent-jj6qi I have my Hells Island DSOD done thanks to infiltrator flamethrower melee build, so it isn't completely unviable on harder heist
@@Kyee124 Smart! Close quarters is definitely good for Infiltrator.
@@yeatard Memories broken, the truth goes unspoken
My suggestion for combat medic aced is:
*"reviving a teammate heals them up to max hp, 60 seconds cooldown. (Does not apply to players with berserk skill unlocked)"*
This might be very powerful for lower difficulties but anything good is powerful for them anyways. But it will be really decent for DSOD gameplay if the max health pool is enough to tank at least a single bullet. It's not that expensive as well, would synergize great with inspire.
Actually that pretty cool idea
@@Mi_tala The game is kinda old for skill overhauls like this so i hope payday 3 has a skill tree with at least situationally useful skills at the worst. Some of the current skills in pd2 are both bad in functionality and also values with low percentages. Also the skills are WAY different depending on difficulty, maybe some skills can scale up with difficulty to stay somewhat useful, just an idea.
@@celestialcolosseum and also i want to make in pd3 skill hard to get,so it can make more rewarding like the old pd2 skill but in unique way
@@celestialcolosseum Game had a skill tree overhaul not that long ago... 3-4 years ago or so
@@migueeeelet 3 to 4 years ago is a long time mate especially for a videos game
Combat Medic and Up You Go should give 30% and 40% of your total healthbar when revived. This will be very handy on health-based builds as reviving with 10% health is currently their biggest weakness on higher difficulties. On the other hand, a Muscle player can spring back into action with 80% health without having to waste an extra medkit.
Yeah
counterpoint imo, most, if not all health tanking perkdeck, has jokers skills that make their lives easier, sure bringing hostage taker aced for Kingpin isnt necessary, but it sure as hell helps. Combat medic, again, ruins berzerker breakpoints, meaning its pretty much exclusively only viable if the entire team runs kingpin muscle crewchief ect
Ehh not really. First Aid Kits are plentiful. Even if you don't bring them, Health decks have ways to quickly regen their health. Only thing you need to do is be more patient for the small time being.
@@emberz3778 muscle has a innate regen that heals them over the course of 3 business days, hostages take it down to 2 but sure
@@SakuyalzayoiTheMaid Alright, well I see you ignored the last sentence of needing patience XD
If the health revive skills scaled off your max hp, I could actually see them being fairly useful on DW or mayhem, since they could Massively increase your survivability after getting picked up, depending on the numbers.
Dire need actually not that bad. The aced version actually mean when your armor break all shot will make enemy stagger and effect will last for 6 second more when armor recovered. It help me a few times from cloaker or rushing enemies assuming you cant kill all of them in time and i find it to be abit useful on 168 sniper build that cant hit 255 breakpoint with Overkill aced or Berserker so you can literally stop a group of enemies rushing with graze shot or smg volley. But it still isnt that good because as you said "just make them dead quickly" but for me i do not think it deserve spot on this video since it still have redeeming quality.
Overall still a great video keep it up!
Dire need is a really good skill to combine with dodge as it will allow you to stagger enemies while your armor regens, since with dodge your armor is 1 shot
I have no experience with really high crime sprees but i feel like the staggering might also be useful there
@@MadWatcher that's not just thinking. that's the fact. Overkill always write the most obsecure description possible
Can you beat Payday 2 with the worst skills and only using the AMCAR?
No
Still, having the worst skills is still better than no skills.
I'm pretty sure he already did that but just the amcar and chimano
@@BadModder he had good skills and still struggled. it would definitely fail without revenant tree alone.
@@sydssolanumsamsys yup
I personally believe it's a bit unfair to lump Sneaky Bastard in the same category as some of these other skills. Sneaky Bastard at the very least has its place in a build were the other skills shouldn't be ran at all, plus Sneaky Bastard can actually bring a Hacker (one kill with Pocket ECM) with Duck And Cover Aced up to 75 dodge which is mental. Though yes, Sneaky Bastard isn't really needed, it's still nice to have to make sure that you aren't going to get hit.
For Counterstrike Aced, personally, I've gotten a lot of use out of it. Sure, when a Cloaker is *right in front of you* and you're staring at him, sure, it's like 'Just kill him, he's right there.' But for those moments when I'm focused on the 300 other cops trying to kill me, and I just suddenly hear their noise out of nowhere, well, just quickly hold the melee button and boom. Vulnerable. And personally, I never know when the Cloakers are actually going to jump and kick, so I prefer to have it as a back up.
*look around*
*shoot cloaker*
problem solved!
either way, i understand using Counterstrike, quite fun when you beat the shit out of the cloaker that tried to dropkick you
@@perhapsYoYo Yeah, I just dont always even see the cloaker, specially since they like to hide in places I dont notice before running at me.
@@perhapsYoYo look around
See a taser
**WolooOLOLOOOLOO**
THAT WASN'T A TAS-
@@EpicWinNoob don't know about y'all, but for my last few games Tasers really came in clutch with them tasing me while Cloaker is trying to kick me
@perhapsYoYo someone cant read
Second Wind Aced is especially useful when a Sicario is running it. Since Sicario is build around taking damage, you can activate Second Wind a lot of the time. I'd say it's most useful on Mayhem, where you don't get punished as hard for playing clumsily and not focussing on your armour. Plus I very much appreciate others running it on dodge builds as if they're playing badly I still get something out of it :)
It is only really good for speedrunning. That is about it.
@@Bay1k Still, going fast is fun.
@@NorthEevee depends. But I get it.
@@Bay1k its saved my dodge ass before when a sniper dinks me
@@thefirstjim Couldn't you have just killed the sniper first? XD
As a more casual player, I honestly think Biker is a somewhat slept-on perk deck. Though its not DW viable to my knowledge and it encourages a more selfish playstyle, it rewards a more aggressive playstyle, similar to Leech, Stoic, Grinder, or other active regenerator perk decks. Its also possible to armor gate with Biker since kills reward both health and armor. Even then, Biker allows you to play more objective based when you have three other teammates running around on a mass murder spree.
biker is the kind of perk deck that could be buffed with mods to make it DW viable, maybe some youtuber should make a mod pack of perk decks buffed to dw
Do you think videos like these would benefit from more discussion around different difficulty levels, say Overkill in additional to DSOD?
I definitely get what you mean. I think an argument can be made that as long as you have a perk deck, skills are entirely optional for Overkill and down so I prefer to focus the discussion at the higher difficulty levels. It's also worth mentioning that my goal isn't to tell people to not use any of these skills, more so to discuss, find uses and potentially point Overkill towards the skills that need slight adjustments.
Second Wind aced is fun on a Grinder buildup up to DW. Pretty consistent speed boost with armor gating abuse.
Honestly the tier 2 revenant skills could really use some reworking, being revived with a little more health is nice, until you consider that most perk decks have some form of health regeneration already. Maybe making one of the skills increase the amount of health you're revived with based on how many enemies you killed while downed would be something neat to play around with
I think you're underestimating some health-centered builds like stoic or supportive builds like crew chief when it comes to more health. If you have stoic and more health on revive it'll be much difficult to get instadowned immediately. As for crew chief, idk if a good dsod crew chief build exists but if it does then it can be very good because it pretty much multiplies all crew skills, especially if you are in loud with many hostages and arrested cops. For the dodge skill, I typically use it to try to get the most amount of dodge (and often crit) with the highest damaging weapons. On unaced I can get to probably 6 detection and still have +10 dodge, but acing the skill allows me to get more like 10-15 detection and pretty much still have a dodge loadout.
What about the skill that automatically turns in a hostage when you get arrested? I think that skill isn't very viable because ideally you wouldn't want to go downed, and when hostages exchange it's at a point in the heist that combat has died down anyways so usually it's not difficult for a teammate to grab them.
HP-based deck usually uses FAKs and/or Hostage taker so a little extra HP on revive didn't do that much (it'll probably work for OVK difficulty but on DS? you *probably* still got 1 shotted by Heavy with or without the extra HP on revive)
the dodge skill is a bit hard to justify... cuz on one hand you get 10% extra dodge, but on the other hand it's ONLY 10%
with hacker you can get 55% without any dodge skills and without concerning your detection
I do agree on Stockholm Syndrome being bad tho, 9 total point for a skill that didn't do much
the basic version is good for stealth tho
crew chief is actually unironically amazing, beats out a good chunk of perk decks, it helps everyone on the team, gives free 2 shot ictv breakpoint, more health, more tankiness, its great, sucks for zerk users but its fine imo. as for dodge, its a bit of a mess to explain but essentially 10% doesnt matter as much as to decks with already high dodge (hacker gives 55 with no skills) *and additionally* relying on dodge is considered bad anyway, bad in a way where the game becomes a lot more unpredictable compared to decks that give 100% risk return
It's old but remember that skill that reduced gangster damage? Lmmfao like wtf?
old skill tree was crazy
7:47 sneaky bastard aced is more for builds that use guns that don’t reach perfect 3 detection as the threshold to reach max dodge such as using a weapon with a higher mag size than spend points on skills, which makes sneaky bastard aced more situational, base is there if you are going for 3 detection anyways to top of rouge or sicario
To add onto heavy impact, when you shoot at an enemy in the head they usually end up flailing around anyway
To give heavy impact some credit, microgun + heavy impact is a great way to crowd control and makes shields a joke without needing a special weapon to deal with them
Keep shittalking dodge and you may not dodge these hands, Knowley
- Sincerely,
Gray-screen 5 mins into the loud heist
heavy impact actually sounds like it would have synergy with the grimm 12g + dragonbreath combo. The initial damage is super low, it's playstyle is all about spray & pray and dragonbreath also has an innate stun chance.
I mean you can
But it's a waste of points since Grimm can already stun pretty well
You might be the first person I have heard say sneaky bastard isn't worth. While I agree that if you need to ace it, your just better off without it, you can VERY easily make effective weapons while still remaining beneath 5 concealment. Also, the point about its tree being bad just doesn't make much sense to me: You have Duck & cover, a skill I literally never play the game without, and when aced makes running objectives that much easier. Then, parkour, an all around nice boost to mobility, inner pockets, which is 2 free concealment to help get that legendary 3 detection risk, and then shockproof, one of the most powerful perks IMO, due to it hard countering tazers when aced, effectively turning them into SWATs with a bit more health. Combine sneaky bastard with duck and cover, you get 20% dodge when sprinting, which, when playing dodge, is effectively always when you need it. Combined with rogue's 50 dodge, or the 55 you can get when playing hacker, as well as the 5 from the bot bonus (assuming your playing with at least one bot) and the five from suit, you can boost your dodge up to 80 with rogue or 85 with hacker. That makes it 1 in 5 shots as opposed to 1 in 2. WAY better odds for 7 skill points.
The issue is that Sneaky Bastard is often prioritised when you could instead invest in actual useful skills like damage, jokers and deployables.
Even on builds that never need dodge in the first place, which is pretty bad.
The tree has quite a few bad skills.
Duck n cover basic is the best skill.
Aced only benefits dodge builds. 10% is nice for the builds, but most decks do not need to use it at all.
Your point about objectives can only really apply to dodge decks and nothing else. Even then, if you wanted to do objectives easier. Jokers exist. Damage exists. They can let you do objectives so much easier. Being able to let a bot tank the hits for you or kill a lot easier.
Parkour basic, it is only really useful for Flak Jacket and heavier armours. Other than that, the speed is not noticeable and it saves points taking it off.
Aced is even worse. You cannot sprint cancel out of reloads. This is terrible as if you are reloading and a guy is in front of you. You are dead. Even if you argue that melee and deployable cancelling exist, they are both too slow and situational to use all the time.
Even on lower difficulties, you can just save the points and reload patiently in cover instead. Congrats on saving 6 points.
Inner pockets is pretty nice for a lot of builds. Not every build needs it, but it does benefit the majority. 3 detection isn't necessarily needed, 4 does the job so you can add a bit more stats to your guns.
Shockproof is just useless. Thing is, as annoying as they seem. You can just kill them or just have a teammate bail you out.
It's similar to swan song where, it is basically a crutch for inexperienced players when the reality of it is, you are better off not taking it and instead just investing in other things to deal with your problems a lot easier.
Dire need can be a nice skill. Basically its a panic option where once your armour breaks you can just sporadically shoot the swats and just run. As nice as it is, quite expensive and you can often use bullseye basic fine as well.
Forgot to mention. 4 detection heavily limits weapon choices. You can still do well with the weapons, but often you miss out of things like grenade launchers, powerful akimbo smgs/shotguns, etc.
1:48 ah yes combat medic
sneaky bastard aced is actually kinda useful, if you get the basic version you can only have a max of 3 DR (Detection rating) BUT if you get the aced version you can go all the way up to 23 DR! same goes with the crit skill
also SB aced is useful when you're doing grinder, those extra few points of dodge help quite a bit imo
Yeah its weird to call it a noob trap since he gives passes to things like turrets or the skills in the shotgunner tree for enabling playstyles.
SB Aced enables some very strong weapon choices for dodge builds even on higher levels, like the stupid fun DMR dodge builds you can get away with.
And for PD2 ive always felt you kinda have to use DW as the one difficulty to check if the build/playstyle is actually good, since ever since it came out, DS has always had between 1-3 builds that are viable for that difficulty
I think the Counterstrike knockdown effect should deal damage, both basic and aced, to give it something for melee builds.
As for Trigger Happy, maybe the damage boost could stack on the Aced version, to really pack a bigger punch, or work like Overkill Aced.
I honestly really like heavy impact: i use an LMG with the world renowned tactic of "spray and pray until everything's dead", and with the particular weapon i use, headshots are difficult at best once you've been firing for more than like 4 rounds, when i often go for over 100 consecutively, so the stagger does actually come in very useful. Having the enemies dead IS better than having them on the floor but alive, but by that same logic, having a lot of enemies incapacitated (whether it's from being knocked to the ground, supressed from the sheer volume of high-threat fire, or, yes, dead) is better than them all being on their feet and firing at you.
Although, i'm an infamy 1 scrub who never plays above mayhem, so obviously my opinion doesn't matter /lh
i will add, i am currently working my way back up to a high enough level to use Body Expertise, so it's kinda just a stopgap, but it's likely going to be a part of my build until level 80 at least, just because of how effective its been
i know that nobody cares but this has been in the back of my mind since i posted it
Dire Need with shotgun leech is pretty good. You break your armor on command and anything in the general direction you’re facing gets staggered
For me Bullseye is one of the weirdest skills in terms of usefulness from a DSOD perspective. The base skill of getting armour on a headshot is amazing and borderline necessary, however aced it's functionality useless since it just gives you more armour per headshot, which similar to other skills in the video practically isn't a factor on higher difficulties.
When you're taking hundreds of damage per shot, armour-gating is armour-gating regardless of the amount of armour you have, making Bullseye simultaneously one of the best and worst skills for high difficulties.
It's saving grace imo is that on lower difficulties the amount of armour gained is actually a useful thing.
Bullseye aced useful on anarchist. It help you rebuild armor to max since anarchist dont fully recover all at once. Other perk deck not much but on anarchist its Goated
@@c3lest1na45 oh yeah true, I run Anarchist myself and usually ace it since it is useful, but on DS one shot can take out your armour from max anyways, so building it up quicker isn't much use.
This is obviously a DS specific thing and doesn't affect most players, but I find it interesting how the aced version of the skill goes from useful to useless in a DS context.
Its useful on sociopath where the gained armor + socios armorgate ability can make you take another light/shield hit
@@connorfoxton6167 not really, if you go hybrid it really shines. In DS with a archist and suit. Snipers oneshot you without counterplay, but running ana with some armor, allows you to do maps that you cant really reliably do in OD, sience at the end of the day, most of the surv on ana is the invul, and the headshots, suit clutch is really good but gives you bad habits that you feel in OD.
Far Away isn't there to "enable a playstyle", it's there to allow shotguns to handle snipers. Without it you get picked apart by them, with it you have at least a reasonable chance at being able to pick them off. Ditto for the SWATs fucking your ally at medium to long range from you. You're completely off-base on this one.
Hardware Expert Aced is supposed to be paired with Kickstarter Aced for your crew's designated technician or "drill guy". It's not really "situational" just because it's not something everyone should take. But it's absolutely a useful skill to have if you're investing in drill skills. Once again, you're completely off-base.
Your Heavy Impact take is...whoof, where to even start. "Have you ever even fired four bullets into an enemy in Payday 2", yes it's called Assault Rifles and LMGs, two entire classes of weapon that you seem to be deliberately ignoring which are massively buffed by this skill. Being able to spray down a room and stunlock a bunch of enemies makes LMGs with this skill second only to flamethrowers for sheer crowd control. Being able to regularly interrupt Cloakers, knock back shields to make them easier to flank...the list goes on. Heavy Impact is far from useless, it's almost a necessity if you're running ARs or LMGs and it gives you great crowd control options.
"Just shoot to kill" is honestly a pretty mediocre take. Sounds fine on paper, but I'd rather be able to lock down a room and then start working my way down the priority list than try to focus on clean kills when I'm taking fire from three different directions. Just because a skill doesn't fit in *your* playstyle doesn't mean it does not have a use.
You talk about Sneaky Bastard being bad...and then point out the one and only time you're really supposed to use it (high-concealment dodge builds). Also, your appraisal of Dodge in general is pretty trash. It's fun and it's viable, so what if it isn't perfect.
For Martial Arts Aced you once again take a skill that is meant to be paired with another...and complain that it sucks because it isn't viable on its own. Yeah, no shit Sherlock.
Overall, 5/10, better luck next time.
With far away. Usually you'd have something else in tandem with a shotgun like an automatic weapon in either your primary or secondary. Usually you'd just use them for Snipers/Bulldozers, even with the likes of an lmg or (akimbo) smg, they can deal with snipers quite well. And even excluding them, you'd have something like a HE/AP Judge, you have a shotgun with the Flechette rounds, etc. Snipers really aren't that bad at all to deal with if you know what you are doing.
For hardware expert aced. It is situational. Not everyone should take it. While it can feel nice, Kickstarter aced exists. Drill Sawgeant aced is really nice as is. As nice as the extra stat is, it's preferable to use those points for something else.
Even under those circumstances. Dire need exists. The stagger is quite useful, but it really outclasses Heavy impact since it can trigger a lot more consistently. Also cloakers really aren't a threat. The skill while I agree can be really useful, you can understandably run without it. What's more necessary would be damage skill.
If you are taking damage from all sides, you are doing something wrong. You should be using cover to minimise the damage taken or be killing quick enough to do the same.
Dodge is pretty overrated. The 10%+ extra dodge can be nice, but you can also just take other better skills for survival like Jokers and Hostage Taker aced. You get shot much much less often and can make your health a lot more consistent to use. That is a lot better than more dodge is and is often what people skip over.
For Martial arts aced. Even in a vacuum, it just isn't really useful. Mainly in that, unlike Automatic weapons where you probably won't kill them in one hit. With melees you should, or if not at least use them for bulldozers/taze them.
I can agree with some things, but some of the useful things often can be countered gameplay wise or another skill exists that can outperform the skill.
@@emberz3778
"With far away. Usually you'd have something else in tandem with a shotgun like an automatic weapon in either your primary or secondary."
Be as that may, Far Away gives you far more flexibility in being able to deal with threats at multiple ranges. The notion that it is "useless" is absurd and counterfactual.
"For hardware expert aced. It is situational. Not everyone should take it. While it can feel nice, Kickstarter aced exists. Drill Sawgeant aced is really nice as is. As nice as the extra stat is, it's preferable to use those points for something else."
Hard disagree from substantial personal experience. But it's your build, it doesn't have to be optimal.
"If you are taking damage from all sides, you are doing something wrong. You should be using cover to minimise the damage taken or be killing quick enough to do the same."
Yeah, not always possible with Payday's map design. And again, being able to stunlock most of a room full of enemies is a big benefit, regardless of what you or the OP says.
@@halfpasteight For your first point, that's why an smg is more preferred. It deals with threats from snipers to bulldozers better and cheaper than far away. It can be nice, but pretty expensive for situations you can easily do regardless of the skill.
For the second point. Again, if you like it then ok. But generally still not that great considering you can just use those points to invest in other better skills.
No, you definitely can prevent taking multiple hits. It's why dsod solo's are possible, it's why Death Sentence in general is easier than a lot of people give credit for. Even for some of the more open maps like Goat Simulator. They do give you multiple areas to use cover in like the sides of the town offer flowerbeds, cars, pillars, etc. Just have to learn the cover spots and strategies.
I agree that stunlocking swats in general can be quite useful, issue is that it isn't Heavy Impact and more so Dire need is the good skill.
@@halfpasteight so can I get a response?
Counter-Strike aced is actually not as bad as you'd think. The faster charging/swinging melees are pretty decent with it.
I actually run Second Wind aced with grinder and the team speed boost can be really appreciated at times
*I find Heavy Impact aced to be pretty useful*
I use it on my lmg builds to take care of shields without having to switch weapons, I just shoot at them a couple of times and execute them when they hit the floor
Then just take Shock n awe aced. Not only can it be more effective, but it actually won't hinder your build as much. It is awkward trying to fit Heavy Impact when you are going for Body expertise, when you can just get surefire and lock n load instead.
At least Shock n awe is a lot easier to fit in and also helps with armour regen.
If knockdown was buffed so it affect all enemies that your target falls into get knocked over by them it could be interesting and turn Payday 3 into a bowling sim
You have no idea the amount sneaky bastard helps in my smg dodge build, that extra 10% dodge let's me have the confidence to drop dozers and do objectives like moving bags
Here's my ideas for perk replacements... if I didn't mention them, I think they're okay.
Combat Medic Aced - additional damage reduction when reviving
Forced Friendship Aced - Multiple hostages can follow you at once
Far Away Aced - Shotgun damage scales up with range while using slugs
Transporter Aced - Carry multiple bags
Saw Massacre Aced - Present benefits + no ammo consumption on unarmored enemies
Hardware Expert Aced - 20% instead of 10%
Heavy Hitter Aced - Bulldozers can be staggered
Dire Need Aced - 30% crit chance when armor is broken
Sneaky Bastard - 20% additional dodge maximum
Trigger Happy Aced - Bonus applies to primary weapon
Up You Go Aced - Revive with full health
Martial Arts Aced - Knockdown applies to all specials except shield
Counter Strike Aced - Enemies about to melee you visibly flash, Cloakers knocked down die instantly
ur transporter aced idea should be 2 bags max, if it were to be ingame. not many places to put full duffel bags on ur body while also having ur guns out lol. or maybe u can put ur guns away to be able to carry 2 (maaaybe 3) bags or smth so it's more a specialist thing instead, cuz i think ur current idea would be so busted it'd trivalise big bank & shadow raid with a full crew
i like the rest tho ur far away aced wouldnt be necessary had OVK just never done fuckin damage range multipliers lol
I don't entirely blame them for the damage multipliers as it helps to specialize the weapons a bit. I'd argue ballistics would be good to help balance weapons-although, really, it'd need to be really exaggerated for it to make a real difference.
Unless they do some kinda street escapes like the movie Heat, we'd rarely engage beyond 50 meters, which anything worth being called a "gun" would be lethal, and likely be zeroed for quite easily... so it's a null point.
Personally, I like the stagger effect with Vulcan Minigun. For when you just can't kill that one enemy fast enough, you can just stagger. Because if they aren't shooting, they're not killing you.
[also i 100% wish 'nade launchers could crit]
I actually really love Far Away it is. To save points, a decent amount of my shotgun builds only have shotguns unless I take Overkill aced. But without some semi iss accurate weapons, shotguns are extremely bad against Snipers. But with 3 to 9 nine skill points and some modding, most shotguns can now actually hit snipers from very long distance away which makes life infinitely easier imo.
I'm late, but I feel like I should expand on Combat Medic Aced being arse here: The way you presented it, it seems as if you might be under the impression it's +30% *maximum* health. I mean, the skill reads like that right? But oh no, it's not +30% maximum health. It's not even +30% extra health when revived. It's +30% *of the health you would otherwise receive when being revived.*
Which means you get +30% of 10% of your Max Health on Mayhem and above, which works out to a whole 3% of your max health. For your average 230 health heister, that's a whopping *_6.9_* (nice) health. Even for the best case scenario, that being a Muscle user (Not Stoic in ICTV, it's 45-odd vs. 460) they gain only 13.8 extra health. The only people who care about that much health on Deathwish, never mind Death Sentence, is the berserker you just accidentally pushed to a lower breakpoint when you revived them. It's complete pants.
You should do a video on the worst original 2013 skills, like the one that slightly reduced the cost of crafting masks and the one that slightly increased the chance of getting an infamous mask.
Cloaker knockdown is rather useful. Say you're in a chaotic gunfight and hear a cloaker charging. Hold E, and you'll be fine. It's good for when you know a cloaker is there, but not exactly where. I use it as a last second counter
The fact that cloakers turn you before downing you is the reason counterstrike aced is useful. If you start turning, hold melee and you will counter it
I don't know if you know this. But with normal buckshot or 000 buckshot shotguns start getting damage falloff after 20m up to 50m where they stop doing any damage at all. The far away skill increases this to 30m - 75m. Giving you a significant increase in damage over distance. Sure, it isn't the most usefull skill in all situations, but I quite like it. It also makes sniping snipers with shotguns more reliable.
The thing about dodge is that it gets better the more of it you have. 10% dodge chance isn't going to do much by itself, but going from 50% dodge to 60% dodge is a lot more impactful; it's effectively an extra 20% damage mitigation instead of just 10%.
Far Away tends to be best if you need to deal with snipers. Though it still is situational, it can be good on heists like Big Bank and Transport: Crossroads if you're running a Shotgun/Saw build. Even then, having that ability to get some extra range out of your shotgun if needed is nice to have as a "just in case" sort of thing.
I feel like underdog aced is a little underrated at times, I really like combining it with die hard basic for those really clutch objective confirms
underdog aced in higher difficulties can actually be a detriment - if it expires while you're being shot at by a heavy swat, you'll take 202.5 damage from one shot and then get immediately graced by the same cop dealing 225 damage. in some cases this is just a death sentence and you will die from it, eg zerk anarchists
I’ve found that sneaky bastard works pretty well with a hacker dodge setup. Having passive dodge is nice to fall back on while you wait for your mini ecm to recharge
Far away is nice for dealing with snipers when your friends are all in custody because they haven't dedicated their lives to PAYDAY 2
About heavy impact though, it's not a case of shoot an enemy 4 times and they will stagger, but 1 in 4 bullets will cause a stagger, i.e if you hit 4 enemies with 4 bullets 1 (or more or less) will be staggered. It's really useful for spraying into crowds with smgs and lmgs, and useful for turning any automatic weapon into anti shield
If you do a challenge run with all these skills, I think overkill difficulty for all heists would be fair game
Mayhem imo
i'm not the best player but i could do any heist in overkill with no skills
I haven’t seen anyone else mentioning it, but Counterstrike Aced has a very niche use that I consider valuable. It makes doing White House True Ending solo very easy. If you bring AI, you just gotta be patient, but otherwise you’re pretty much invincible. Incredibly niche, but if you mainly play solo like me, it can make that section far less frustrating (if still just as tedious)
I don't agree with Martial Arts being in this list. Because of training.
That Shrek bodypillow mod triggered my fight or flight instincts.
Thanks Kknowley.
I fucking hate it.
Heavy impact does have good impact on LMG builds, since with how many bullets that are fired acing it is never a neccesity, more just for excess points. Problem is when you factor in BE in the same tree, effectively turning every bullet into a headshot... yeah....
I find that the stagger mechanic is actually detrimental. Like you said, a dead enemy can't fight at all while a staggered enemy recovers. Yet it throws off your aim by making enemy movement less predictable.
tbf, on builds with a very slow firing primary weapon, like the 500 damage tier of snipers, i think counterstrike aced makes more sense because of how slow those weapons can cycle, shooting a cloaker in the face is less reliable when you have over a second between shots and you get surprised
Damage absorb isn't completely a loss. I have used that hostage perk stacked with infiltrator and maxed frenzy or whatever it is called for another 25% res and you can get the damage reduction from using a doctor's bag. It all adds up to something like 80% dmg reduction and the additional flat 4 at that point is good for it's cost. You can convert infantry to hostages as long as you don't joker them on maps without civs.
That one person: CaN YoU BeaT PaYDAy WiTH OnlY thEse SkILLs
there is one thing i'll super praise the shit out of with the skill system in payday 2: you can respec your skills as much as you want with no penalty
And you can't forget about how the increase in bag throw was necessary for counterfeit stealth before it was patched out
I have an interesting idea for a challenge run. Whatever skills and perk deck you choose, you are stuck with, and every heist, your guns, your melee and your throwable are all randomized. You have to make a build that can work with anything
i like using a silenced mp5. It has pretty poor dmg, but looks cool and the staggering can help with specials like tasers.
It's actually alright at the moment, given the multiple buffs it has been through.
Counterstrike aced actually does have a legit (Albeit somewhat niche) use for one of my builds, which uses a flamethrower as their primary weapons. This usually can't kill the Cloaker in time (I use Bloodthirst with a Fire Axe to handle Dozers), nor can I swap to my secondary in time, meaning Cloakers are kind of the build's only weakness. As a result, Counterstrike is good to have as a "just in case" option, especially since the build is often far away from teammates.
I’ve always loved second wind for my grinder build. When you don’t have much armor and are still pretty spongy getting a huge boost in speed after getting clapped by a sniper or punched by a dozer can get you out of a lot of bad spots.
Personally, I run kickstarter aced with the golden spoon because fuck stealth, I didn’t cue up “I will give you my all” to play quiet. Restarting the drill with a spoon is hilarious
There is one thing good about aced Martial Arts, using leather sap makes you a knockout machine
The shotgun
Heavy impact aced
Profit
I don't know why but I love sentry's it's just nice to have one to watch your back or hold an area or entire building
i mean the anarchist transporter trick works in loud too if you have a heist with lots of gold (eg brooklyn bank/big bank). when you have a joker and lbv or hbv, you move faster than walking speed when carrying gold. which is...suprisingly helpful.
as a sociopath main that very often has a katana out, it’s surprising how much value i’ve gotten from counterstrike aced
it’s saved me on dozens of occasions from being downed by that one cloaker that you’re too distracted to actually notice is charging you and not someone else
still a meme but i don’t regret the 9 points i spent
How 5:44 applies to Shock and Awe aswell but sadly missing, ammo efficiency is important. And Body Expertise is missing for almost every gun in the game doesn't need it, and guns that do are overall overshadowed or it's just outright better to still aim for the head and take damage/crit instead.
Body Expertise is a controversial skill for years, but it boils down to this.
Even if you do aim well, it is still better to have Body Expertise since it makes aiming so much more easier and killing faster. It is a lot easier aiming for the body than for the head.
And with Crit builds, you would preferably take both. It still makes killing swats a whole lot easier.
@@emberz3778 If you had the points, it is 28 points for not aiming for the head, just aim for the head you'll either do it out of instinct or you'll never be able to play another shooter or playstyle again. Microgun and Micro Uzi are the only that need it, every other getting damage is just better.
If it would work on dozers...
And god 28 points for slight to good ammo efficiency increase and thrown out muscle memory of to head flicks.
@@inybisinsulate Well for one, you yourself could still just aim for the head. No one is stopping you. Just that, there is a reason why everyone is taking Body Expertise on Automatics.
Second, people take the skill on automatics in general. Assault rifles, Lmgs, Akimbo smgs. I am quite surprised not to see any of the lmgs mentioned. But yeah same thing of, it makes things a lot more convenient. Even with good aim, you can aim for an easier target and kill faster.
In a game that has a difficulty where you can die in less than a second, it does come in handy to just spray at their body.
For bulldozers. Not denying it doesn't work on them. Though you will be mainly fighting swats and other special units and even when you do meet them, you should have a damage up by now. Even with an lmg, unseen strike exists and even without taking it, it is still powerful enough that it is understandable to just tank their damage and still go for Body Expertise.
You are overreacting XD
You are acting as if the skill makes you a worse player. Thing is it only helps great players and makes the lives of players that don't have god like aim have an easier life.
You can understandable not take it, but I just want to explain why it is so popular.
I have no issue with the sentries needing commitment to play, I just wish you could repair sentries that die or buff their dmg to make them worth playing outside of stacking 4 in one spot
Last I checked sentries do 30dmg in auto fire and 75 in "single fire" mode.
@@fiyahquacker2835 on mayhem+ a base enemy has 480 health, meaning that it takes 7 shots to kill, this means that if you want to actually do anything you need 3+ sentries per spot, this is not even counting specialist units that have higher hp and as such they can tear down your nest without effort
i hope payday 3 is less focus on dodge and more focus on tanking
You can easily tank with armour on Death Sentence, Armourer is one of the best perks in the game. Heck even Stoic is a health tank deck and that perks is the 1/2nd best perk in the game.
plenty of things are usable on dsod that arent dodge tho. anarchist, armourer, stoic, leech, etc.
I really enjoyed this video, Kknowley! I agree on the skill selection completely and wish they would get buffed, as for how I would buff them...
1. Honestly Combat Medic Aced and Up You Go Aced should have the percentages based on max HP but be disabled on Berserker Users.
2. For Trigger-Happy, I would make it so that Base is 120% damage for 3 seconds and Aced is 240% for 1 seconds. If you have the fire-rate to maintain that damage boost you can eat bulldozers even faster with auto-pistols.
3. For Sneaky Bastard I would just make it so that acing it gives a 20% dodge-boost but remove the "1% for every 1 DR beneath 35" shtick.
4. Forced Friendship should just be translated into damage reduction or heavily increase the damage absorption to 10 points. It's very rare you'll be able to find 8 hostages to get the _4 damage absorption_.
5. Counter-Strike Base should deal double of the melee damage on parry while Aced should insta-kill Cloakers, like you suggested.
6. Finally for Saw Massacre the skill would be even better with one change: remove the "Can't pick up ammo" trait from all the weapons that have it (save crossbows and bows). This trait is completely useless and ruins weapons that don't deserve it; besides, OVERKILL can easily make the ammo pick-up atrocious, which would still be better than what we have now.
Thanks for the video again! Stay frosty and keep those helmets flying!
I tend to use Max Turret skills with Grinder perk deck, considering that the shots made by your turrets counts towards your HP regen activation.
Something for you to test: Does "Dire Need" work with "Graze"? If you shoot someone when your armour breaks, could you stagger a whole corridor's worth of enemies in one go, or does the bullet actually need to hit them to count?
good question, my gut says the latter. my question is does graze work with shock & awe aced, as the desc says it's a function of the weapon damage?
I didn't know that Trigger Happy aced didn't apply the buff when switching to a primary so thanks for saving me 8 points in my build! Great video
a few things to counter
1: hardware expert aced stacks with kickstarter
2: if you have a hyper-fast firing weapon like the 18C pistol then it can stunlock enemies for heavy impact
3: if you get snuck up upon by a cloaker and just now hear the sound, you can evade death by just pulling out your melee at random
thats it rn I guess, revenant goes hand in hand with ex-president ig idk I'm shit at the game lol
i hope overkill makes absorption as a stat as good as leech was when it launched. I'd love to run maniac more
Ironically, Dire Need is a really good perk on hybrid armor builds (which, I know don't really prop up often, but it's abusable as high hell alongside second wind, often aced for my allies)
You talking about an instant kill on cloakers with counterstrike made me think. For payday 3, what if you didn't have to answer pagers, but you had to stealth takedown enemies? And the takedowns took about as much time as the pagers? What if you could ace a high level skill that let you takedown enemies even when you're not in stealth? Maybe different characters have different methods? I for one want to see wolf stab somebody with a drill, wait impatiently for a few seconds then remove it and watch the body fall.
out of all these skills, counterstrike is the only one i really used on DS. When ur running a melee build with no intention of buffing or really using the guns you bring you end up holding the melee out pretty much all of the time so it blocks a ton of damage
Honestly, I've thought bout sneaky btard being too strange as for right now. The thing is - 10% on 0-5 base evade is prety much nothing. BUT 10% when you're already have like 50+ is like hell of much. I'd build w/ 80% evade (while sprint obv). So SB actualy gave me like solid 1/3 of my resists (70 + 10 from SB). I just do not understand why it is capped at 10 and why do perc decs give so much of flat/active evasion.
Martial Arts Basic atleast is a skill i use on almost all of my builds, it only costs 1 point and the 50% less melee damage taken is surprisingly really great for surviving melee attacks with my playstyle.
Yea, me too
Heavy impact is great for Solos w/o crew AI vs shields- it allows you to knock them over and kill them before they get up
Am I missing something about sneaky bastard? Yeah ten dodge isn't a lot but when running dodge decks like hacker it's possible to get up to 75 dodge while sprinting. I'd never get it if I wasnt running a dodge build however.
Edit: I'm a convert sb feels very underwhelming even on high dodge setups. Especially for hacker where I can spend those points on extra crits or utility skills
The problem with Sneaky Bastard is the point cost. You have to spent 20 points just to get 10 dodge, but at that point, just ace duck n cover.
SB is also a skill that works best on high dodge setups. The math has been done, but in summary SB is better the higher your dodge is. If you take SB on Crook, don't expect to be dodging a lot more. If you take SB on Hacker with PCM bonus dodge active, the difference can be very noticeable. It is also, as mentioned, horribly point expensive. In the majority of cases you are better off investing into other skills for DPS or deployables to support your team and kill cops better, since the (usually very slight) extra survivability is generally not worth the points. It can be very powerful on Hacker though.
@@convergentseries3508 yeah I understand that it's not worth unless I'm running a dodge build like hacker (75 dodge while sprinting is so awesome) but I'd never get it with something like anarchist especially since I rarely go beyond duck and cover basic and parkour basic when not running a dodge build.
The secert behind the movement speed skill on armor break. Is to use hitman with duel explose judges. In a ECM rush stealth build.
I thought "Kickstarter" skill didn't work by itself , without aced "Hardware Expert" skill .
It also writes on Kickstarter - gives an ADDITIONAL 20% restart effect .
Key word "additional" here , meaning , adding to the already equiped Hardware expert - which you must have .
Am i wrong ?
I tested it a few times in the past and Kickstarter didn't came in effect in without Hardware Expert Aced ... did they change the mechanics or was i just out of luck ?
Shinobu wasn't even mentioned. That's because the Shinobu skill tree is without flaw
...
Except Extra body bags, we don't really need those
I'd imagine counterstrike aced could be usable in a secret ending-specific build.
nah just use a stable LMG.
I never realized the sneaky bastard skill only gave 10 dodge. I honestly wish you could get more dodge as it seems like an interesting playstyle but pretty much outclassed by the consistency of stuff like anarchist and stoic
I do also remember that april fool's BAD build Connor Shaw made way back
yeah that dude doesent even make payday stuff anymore
I find that when using a pure shotgun build, it is much easier to take out snipers with the Far Away perk.
EDIT: After typing this i realised that he was talking about the Basic and not the Aced version of Kickstarter and yeah i fully agree there. However for those that thinks Kickstarted Aced is still good i will leave my take on it below.
5:30 i would argue that Kickstarter aced is even worse then Hardware Expert aced considering how many points u need to get to it and in what situations its actually useful. In stealth its almost useless becouse if u are drilling open a vault odds are that u have already cleared the area so u dont really have a good reson from a gameplay pespective to run around anymore with some very heist specific exceptions. Also while using the bot ability (Quick) u get a massive interaction speed boost that multiply with each bot u have to the point that it is faster to just restart the drill and not risk a 50% chans that it wont restart from hitting it. Its best usage in stealth is opening several cages at once but even there u tend to be able to get a keychain as map loot or asset in pre planning and its effect goes down the more players are in your lobby.
Its best usage are instead in loud heists like Green Bridge and the Transport heists when u need to open several trucks at once placed in the open and its for the most part impossable to cover them all. Unlike the stealth portion here its value goes up the more ppl u play with becouse ppl may not use the AI (Quick) ability or if your in a full team of 4 there are no bots. Here is a quick example how powerful that AI ability really is. I tend to run stealth solo only becouse public stealth is a meme for a reson and those that have tried it know what i´m talking about. However i did a Big Bank 4 ppl Stealth and was gonna get the keycard in the safe behind the painting inside the managers office. Solo with the AI quick boost it takes around 10-12 sec to open. With no AI it takes 45 sec to open.
So spending a minimum of 12 points to get to an ability that in theory only works 50% of the times is not a good ide when most loud builds already have to give up 1 or 2 abilitys becouse of how strict they are with there points distributions.
Sentries are by far the most underrated. Ive been using them for a long time now. They always kick ass!
I'd like to see a similar video like this one but instead talking about the absolutely huge arsenal of practically useless weapons the game has on offer
game : forced friendship
kknowley : combat medic
ddumbley