Payday 3 isn't what it's suppose to be i know but you can't be mad about payday 2 just because of the bugs that it got with trying to get the steam, disc and epic players to play together
@@Jacksnowyy5008yeah I’m guess it wasn’t supposed to be a failure despite them designing the game in everything but the gameplay incredibly fucking terribly to set it up to fail But not even 6 months and 500 players average on steam lmao. GG starbreeze.
Problem is they are doing a good job at killing pd3 so like are they just trying to kill the series in general or did they forget how to make good games
In comparison this is somehow even worse; most Skyrim mods only break because SKSE has to be fixed every update, as offsets, etc in code are changed. New updates are just Todd peddling more paid mods. Ech. But vanilla Skyrim.... still works as it always has. This is overkill making changes to VANILLA GAMEPLAY for literally zero reason- and sprinkling in epic games crossplay with its own huge issues AND completely breaking Linux when it worked JUST FINE before is fucking absurd.
@@bluedogz1624 Both should have been left alone, at least bethesda didn't come and change fundamental things for no reason 10years after release (thou they did chane some fundamental things in one of the AE versions wich messed up with most of the mods with scripts)
I am with you on Bethesda part to be honest i am bit happy people are finally seeing Bethesda what they truly are. Bunch of hacks who cant let go of the past giving how much starfield was a failure and well lookie what happened to skyrim after that game failed? Its not a coincidence they just want to spite people for playing older games that they made that was built for fun and not corpo greed influenced
Another small thing: Overkill messing with DoT inflicted on enemies has somehow made them unable to get shocked in the flooded lab in Hostile Takeover, making the System Shocked achievement impossible. I was 3 achievements away from 100% completion when I learned this!
If its truly impossible, either get a modder to fix it, wait for a potential fix (and report the issue yourself), or just use Steam Achievement Manager.
funny knowing this just made me hate starbreeze even more and not want to touch the franchise ever again. if anything I feel like they're doing this cause it's the only thing making them money and they want to "improve" it, which backfires horribly.
Well, most likely, but it still won't make ppl play pd3. It seems like pd2 will be killed and nobody will care about pd3 anyway. Ovk is literally shooting themselves in a knee... With comando 101.
So on the hacker pECM. I've been playing hacker lately, and almost always I die during the pECM, because it doesn't stun properly. EVEN in places like undercover's hallways.
I feel like this video is misleading and just far too negative for the sake of being negative. I'll just go in order of some of the things you've mentioned: - Yes, updates can break mods. It can be annoying, but this has happened with almost every other patch we've gotten over the past decade. Starbreeze is under no obligation to ensure that mods still work after a patch, and the modders themselves aren't obligated to update the mods either. - The -steamMM launch option still works, they didn't remove it. - The Counterfeit cops you show are multiple scripted spawns not assigned to group AI, not a proper spawn group. That's why they're all doing their own thing. - Just because LIES had fixes for issues that were later addressed in vanilla does not mean that code from LIES was integrated. You can even see that the first fix on that mod page is intended to make cops less aggressive, not "more rushy and fast" as you claim. - I helped work on the custom map that you used to test the LIES AI, albeit to a limited degree. While I didn't create the "Arena" portion of that map, I can't guarantee that it was set up in the best way for AI behavior or pathing. We don't have access to the official editor or documentation that Starbreeze used to create maps, after all. The particular spot you were standing in past the stairs is considered to be a separate "room" for the purposes of AI pathing. Ahead of you was yet another room, and past the doorway was a third room where the enemies were. I can't speak for the changes LIES makes to the AI, but if all of those sections were considered the same room, they likely would've rushed you instead of "running away" (it actually seems like they were taking cover before preparing to push to the next room). - The cops getting stuck under the stairs and shooting you from under the bridge has been an issue since Green Bridge released. - Spawn delays are scripted on a per-map basis. While it is possible to hijack the spawn group elements via code to override their spawn group delays, vanilla code does not do this. The spawns you showed on Birth of Sky are scripted to be available every 4-6 seconds (depending on the exact spawn location), which is why cops are constantly spawning from it. - It's hard to tell what happened in that clip on The Diamond, but it's possible it was from one of the ground Sniper spawns that's scripted to path over to the hallway in the direction you got shot from. - Green Bridge is another case of spawn delays scripted on a per map basis. Those ones are set up to be on a 2 second delay. - Hell's Island: 5 second spawn delays in that area. - I suspect some of those Molotov changes are a side effect of changing them to use the FragGrenade class as a base instead of the GrenadeBase class. All of the other grenades were changed to use the same base class as well, so it was likely for internal organization/cleanup rather than an intentional nerf. - Zeal SWATs originally used the tweak data for standard blue SWAT units, which was a headache to deal with internally and made 0 sense. Giving them separate tweak data is actually pretty handy for modders. - The _female tweak data is so they use the correct voicelines instead of the male voicelines. The health is almost certainly a mistake due to the misleading name though; they inherit stats from "fbi" units instead of the intended "cop" units. - Flash grenades should still have the proper detonation timer on lower difficulties, but it doesn't get decreased on higher difficulties due to a bug (the timer falls back to the default value instead of checking if it exists in tweakdata first) - The Shock and Awe behavior was actually changed (unintentionally) back in Update 237, when they optimized how shotgun pellet damage gets dealt to objects. Shock and Awe had a high proc rate with shotguns because every pellet used to cause a separate instance of damage, but now it procs as often as any other gun because it only deals one instance of damage (with the damage dependent on how many pellets landed). - They did not remove the ability to re-apply fire DOT damage, they actually fixed it. Trying to spam fire the flamethrower would cause the fire damage grace period to constantly refresh, resulting in DOT doing 0 damage until a second after you stopped burning them. You seem to be mixing up the stun animation (which can be triggered by DOT) with the actual DOT damage. Also, according to The Long Guide, there has always been a 1 second cooldown before you can stun an enemy with fire again. It's okay not to like a mod. It's not okay to imply that its creator is somehow responsible for the issues you have with the update, when the most they had in common was implementing some fixes for vanilla AI bugs. And it's especially not okay to spread misinformation about issues that have been in the game for years prior to this update.
Alrighty, let's share. = How is this video misleading when there's several examples and proof, ontop of frustrated players I talked to on Streams, my Discord, or hell these YT comments below? Yes the tone is harder but the game has balance and stability issues right now. = I get mods break with every update. On average, this update took the longest to get things 'stable' after discovering so many issues. Back to my point, why was the changes needed. = I was told they broke -steamMM after fixing u237 mess. Did they re-add it? Or is this the fixes mod doing? = I agree with your point, but also disagree. I know the CF spawn there after the first assault ALWAYS ran behind to the alleyway next to the SWAT vans (before U240.3). However, doesn't derail my point where I have several examples in this video whereas groups are not all the same. I could put 8minutes more of examples to make this video boring than ever. - Just because LIES had fixes for issues that were later addressed in vanilla does not mean that code from LIES was integrated. You can even see that the first fix on that mod page is intended to make cops less aggressive, not "more rushy and fast" as you claim. = Pretty conspicuous how an AI change to cops seems to fall in line to the same mod/creator. I'm willing to bet on that parts of LIES are integrated. OVK is pretty known for taking whatever mods and putting it into Payday2. = True, I didn't do """ Full testing of the LIES mod """ on proving grounds cause 1 lobby had it whilist the game was seriously boring (I can get full vod). But I can't waste time either testing a mod when the main concern is the 20k+ playerbase on vanilla. The cops taking cover sounds like an excuse when it was a full assault banner. Not run away from heister ===== = The green bridge spawn I've known for years too. Usually I get tickled by 1 or 2 shots and that's while cops are moving up the stairs. How in the hell are 5 cops stuck and shoot me 4 times, and killed my teammate. That's the re-occurring issue with the update, inconsistency = That's great to learn about spawn delays about per-map basis. Now is it all balanced correctly to do objectives in a teamplay effort? Birth of sky spawns in my example there is Cafe, only 2 spawn points will occur. It's definitely faster than my previous BoS videos whilst I took the math to find out team KPM is higher after this update. = What the hell is a ground sniper..? That sniper who killed me is to guard the lockpick door in the diamond vault. But that's the issue again, inconsistent enemies = Back to your BoS point with Green bridge being 2 seconds, this is makes sense but now we're enforcing sweaty/DPS builds whereas other weapon classes are going to suffer. Was Green bridge changed? = So more map basis spawn delays? hells island had to be changed cause previous videos/documentation/solos had less spawns. Was it 20 seconds (I'm guessing) by chance? Back to the balance part, does the team/players have adequate pressure to do objectives while not be boring? Was fine before, so these spawn delay changes are going to need thorough map testing. Otherwise they could have posted "We made more objectives engaging for players to keep busy with cops" or something in the patch notes. ===== = The molotov changes woulda have been quickly figured out. Surprised again why this wasn't documented. It's too bad cause this changes procedures on "Zerking" or other tricks. Builds have always suffered buffs and nerfs so it wasn't a huge deal (lol dlc weapons). = Curious to know what benefits giving Zeal Swats separate tweak data will bring. Cosmetic, animation, damage values? = Another interesting note about the female tweak data. But if we're cleaning up these 2 categories, sounds like the game needs a complete overhaul. We still have Russian Units in BP doing DW damage... = Flashes lmao. Again 2 months? I dunno if the benefit of these tweak data tables or whatever are helping here. = Surprised to see Shock/Awe nerfed at 237. Probably busy dealing with EGS issues. Eitherway, balance wise the skill sucks. Nerfing shotguns and inherently nerfing this is awful. = Okay, the one mistake I said wrong during the fire DOT. Doesn't help how the main purpose of flamethrower is to stun as their damage is pathetic to begin with. And same with the DB rounds, has the db-grimm finally been removed? All other fire round shotguns suffer while it stays ontop. = I never said the mod creator was responsible for this mess. I said parts were integrated to make them feel rushy and fast. Back to the coincidence above, I'm willing to bet on it. But why wasn't this mentioned? At least saying we're making the game less boring with more to shoot seems more responsible. Undocumented changes brings issues, even this accusation you think I'm doing. And please, stop putting words in my mouth that I'm spreading mis-information. If the examples in this video (and I can easily get more if need) aren't clear enough, and the playerbase not having a good time? Then I wouldn't have posted this at all. If the changes are not documented, how is it mis-information in the first place? From your points, I can correct 1 maybe 2 things for sure.
@@KevKild "How is this video misleading when there's several examples and proof, ontop of frustrated players I talked to on Streams, my Discord, or hell these YT comments below?" Some of the issues you are pointing out have been in the game prior to this update and were not caused by this update. Your entire video makes all of the issues out to be this patch's fault, which is misleading. You also make false claims about LIES code being integrated into vanilla despite not providing any evidence of this whatsoever. You are also running multiple mods which could be interacting (or overwriting) vanilla code in ways you might not expect. I'm not saying that they are the cause (some of the issues you've pointed out are indeed current vanilla behavior), but there's always the possibility. That is, of course, unless you've actually looked into the code for every mod you've installed, which you can because they don't have compiled code. "I get mods break with every update. On average, this update took the longest to get things 'stable' after discovering so many issues." Are you referring to the time it took for mods to be "stable" after an update? There's been way worse than some BLT mods breaking over the course of the 10 years I've modded this game. "Back to my point, why was the changes needed." You could say that for a lot of patches we've gotten. Some of the internal clean up and bug fixes made to the game over the past few patches were actually good, but mostly unnoticed if you don't regularly dive into the game's code. And they're always overshadowed by the new bugs or balance changes (intentional or not) that slip in. "I was told they broke -steamMM after fixing u237 mess. Did they re-add it? Or is this the fixes mod doing?" As I said, they never removed it. There might have been an oversight that caused the game to crash with it enabled at one point (my memory is a bit fuzzy), but it's certainly not a thing now. "I know the CF spawn there after the first assault ALWAYS ran behind to the alleyway next to the SWAT vans (before U240.3). However, doesn't derail my point where I have several examples in this video whereas groups are not all the same. I could put 8minutes more of examples to make this video boring than ever." I didn't really comment on AI behavior because parsing the decompiled AI code would take me hours and interpreting it is out of my area of expertise anyways. Plus, personal anecdotes as to how things should (or shouldn't) act are moot when it's possible to read the code to see how it functions. That is exactly what I did for most of the points in my previous comment; I skimmed through the decompiled lua files and looked at the mission scripting. "Pretty conspicuous how an AI change to cops seems to fall in line to the same mod/creator. I'm willing to bet on that parts of LIES are integrated. OVK is pretty known for taking whatever mods and putting it into Payday2." The decompiled lua source for PAYDAY 2 is out there. I invite you to go compare the code to LIES if you're going to make such accusations. I only know of one instance of Starbreeze actually taking code from a mod, and that was for the FOV relative mouse sensitivity which was stolen from Frankelstner. Every other accusation I've seen of this has been outright false. "True, I didn't do """ Full testing of the LIES mod """ on proving grounds cause 1 lobby had it whilist the game was seriously boring (I can get full vod). But I can't waste time either testing a mod when the main concern is the 20k+ playerbase on vanilla." If you didn't want to "waste time" testing the mod, then why make such serious accusations about it? You've shown one snippet of its AI appearing to be stupid (or perhaps acting smart), and then insinuate throughout the video that this is the AI that Starbreeze apparently used as a basis for this update. "Now is it all balanced correctly to do objectives in a teamplay effort?" I don't know if they're balanced, that's just how it works. The mappers set up SpawnEnemyGroup elements and give them intervals. "What the hell is a ground sniper..?" I meant that the Sniper spawns on the ground and then paths towards that gate. "Was Green bridge changed?" If it was changed, it wouldn't have been in this patch. They would actually have to use their map editor to manually edit the delays for each of the points, and I don't believe they have any mappers working on the game at the moment. "The molotov changes woulda have been quickly figured out. Surprised again why this wasn't documented." I can only assume that it wasn't documented because there wasn't supposed to be a visible change in-game. It was intended to clean up the code internally. "Curious to know what benefits giving Zeal Swats separate tweak data will bring. Cosmetic, animation, damage values?" It's cleaner and easier to parse internally than having to deal with tweak data going from swat > fbi_swat > city_swat > swat in terms of difficulty progression. Not every change is done with the intent of being noticeable in-game. "Surprised to see Shock/Awe nerfed at 237. Probably busy dealing with EGS issues. Eitherway, balance wise the skill sucks. Nerfing shotguns and inherently nerfing this is awful." Again, it was a side-effect of their optimization pass for Shotguns. They didn't consider how the old behavior interacted with Shock and Awe and didn't change the skill to compensate for it. "I never said the mod creator was responsible for this mess." Why did you say that this update shouldn't have been "put in the hands of modders" in the description then? That sounds like you're blaming the author.
@@Lolnoobwut1 Okay I'll accept that as mis information on my part. So I'll agree that's my mistake. I don't have 1:1 proof via code to code, but a change is a change - especially the countless hours I've done playing this messed up game. Just very bothersome how myself and folks addressed "LIES has fixes within U240.3" and the "" proof "" has himself on the mod page with edited comments saying so. So did someone else fix those portions and he was told? Hard to say when there's no documentation from OVERKILL. But I'm not going to back out and say U240.3 is fine, where you may think I'm mis-leading. There are definitely issues this patch and lots people are unhappy about it. The modders comment. Not all mods are good and not all are bad. While some fix things desperately needed, while others create OP unnecessary weapons or dumb overhauls that don't make the game any more fun. If I wanted to blame the author, I'd say its his fault, but I never did. When there's very close similarities between the vanilla gameplay, LIES changes, ontop of undocumented stuff for 2 months, what do you do. Maybe my wording was bad
@@KevKild "Just very bothersome how myself and folks addressed "LIES has fixes within U240.3" and the "" proof "" has himself on the mod page with edited comments saying so. So did someone else fix those portions and he was told? Hard to say when there's no documentation from OVERKILL. " Anyone is capable of checking the decompiled code for PAYDAY 2. The creator of LIES has certainly worked with it to make their mod. They could have easily checked the decompiled code for 240.3 and verified that it fixed the issues they described on the mod page. That does not mean Starbreeze fixed it the exact same way they fixed it. Please refrain from making comments about stolen code, or the code in general, if you do not have an understanding of how it works.
And because I forgot to reply to it: "The modders comment. Not all mods are good and not all are bad. While some fix things desperately needed, while others create OP unnecessary weapons or dumb overhauls that don't make the game any more fun." I'm not seeing how this is relevant. What does this have to do with the update being "put in the hands of modders"? "If I wanted to blame the author, I'd say its his fault, but I never did. When there's very close similarities between the vanilla gameplay, LIES changes, ontop of undocumented stuff for 2 months, what do you do." You're saying you're not blaming the author, and then immediately follow it with a comment about the "very close similarities" between vanilla and LIES (which again, is false). What am I supposed to take away from this? That you blame the mod? The mod was created by someone, which would mean you are blaming the author.
Everything you'll ever love will eventually become a tarnished shell of its former self. Such is the fate of 99.9% of online multiplayer games that get updates.
They didn't add the mod lies into the game, dont put that shit on the mod author. OVK did their own version of the fixes lies makes to cop ai but did it in a half assed broken way. Ive used lies for over a year since its release and none of these issues are present in it.
@@KevKild it doesn't make the game easier? it sounds like you really just have no idea what the mod even does, or what your talking about. The mod makes the cop ai smarter, which makes the game _harder_ not easier. Now the cops will use tactics and maneuver as a squad which they haven't been able to do in vanilla pd2 for years, since ovk broke the ai system. if you use the dumbed down "vanilla" settings included in the mod instead of the recommended, then yes the cop ai will act dumber, as its not taking advantage of any of the improvements the author made to cop ai logic, and is only using the handful of ai bug fixes they made. This will expose the flaws in the vanilla cop logic, which is exactly the issues you were experiencing in the game update. OVK fixed the bugs, but did not implement any of the actual cop ai improvements from the mod. So again, stop trying to conflate overkill releasing a half assed broken update with the work of a modder who actually fixed the games ai.
@@KevKild Your literally shit talking a mod author and their work when it has nothing whatsoever to do with the update. They dont work for overkill, they have never worked _with_ overkill, and overkill did not in any way shape or form copy the code from lies to put in the game. Issue a correction and retraction and stop being an ass to people who dont deserve it.
@@SPITSPHIRE Odd how I never shit talked them. Where you getting this accusation? And no I don't need to "issue a correction" and I'm not being an ass. Listen to yourself
@@KevKild you made an entire video where your trying to blame a mod author for the issues with the update and then reiterate it in the video description: _"this update is horrible and probably shouldn't have been rushed or put in the hands of modders."_
I play on and off. Me and my friend started playing again not too long ago and we always played on Overkill. My friend said "did they make overkill harder" and while doing bank heist I went to move a civ into the teller room and the AI walked a little bit, then stopped. I knew something was up.
@@CavinLee I woulda got mods but they caused my game to be literally unplayable (I couldn't do anything) and I had to reinstall. The fixes mod did that btw.
That's great, thank you for posting. But how else would things get fixed from your code while you confirmed it? I'm guessing some OVK person snagged it
What do you mean? I didn't confirm anything? No OVERKILL person snagged it. Nothing in the decompiled code indicates that something (if anything) was taken from LIES.
If you're not gonna even go through the decompiled code and compare. Don't bother making accusations like that. If you want be miserable that's fine, but don't pull people that had nothing to do with it into it.
There's multiple ways to fix an issue, just because OVERKILL fixed the issue in their own way doesn't mean they used my code or my way of fixing things. My fixes are hacky because I work within the limitations of SuperBLT and making sure that players who do not have the mod have proper networking with people who do, OVERKILL's fixes were much more direct and proper. Either way, it means that you either have no idea what you're talking about in the video (and therefore shouldn't be talking about it), or you're making stuff up.
I had to delete half of my mods (mostly music) to be able to join lobbies. Otherwise, i will be stuck in loading screen forever. I still have this problem, but now i can join game with 50% chance.
speaking of, I am fairly certain Kev would hate resmod based on how ZEAL Heavies aren’t mentally inhibited laser beams but I’m curious to see him play it, idk why
I knew there was *something* super messed up about cop spawns after the update. It felt like there was just double what they normally were across the board. I understand doing some final clean up before fully moving to Payday 3, but so far it has pretty much just been extensive balance changes for no conceiveable reason.
@@KevKild I mean yeah obviously modders would, it's the fate of any popular game that is no longer updated but why are overkill still putting resources into PD2? Wasn't the game in an already smooth state before this patch?
@@JustSippingTea Kinda? Ignoring some shit updates and feature creep, they at the very least put in enough to fix a chunk of EGS matchmaking integration. Not really where it was pre-EGS but hey at least it was in a state where they could've left it without anybody up in arms.
Here's some 240.3 changes I've encountered: -Due to the faction changes, federales lights do proper light damage now (67.5). -Getting tazed from zapper grenades or zapper ammo for GL's won't auto-reload your weapon anymore (lmao). -Cant shout 'stop' at other players anymore, only bots. -Melee knockback value for every melee (base or charged) has been increased by x10. It doesn't show it in the melee selection, it still shows the pre-240.3 values. Not actually sure if 240.3 is the reason for this change, didn't play enough between 240.0 and 240.3 to have noticed this before. For those curious: melee knockback has a chance to proc if the knockback value is the same or lower as the remaining enemy health. Fists for example has a knockback of 90 (110 fully charged) and won't try to proc knockback until the remaining enemy health is 90 (or 110 when fully charged) or below. With new knockback values the health has to be 900 (1100 when fully charged) or below for knockback to proc. Also, martial arts aced increases the knockback value by an additional 50%; bloodthirst, berserker basic and crits don't affect knockback. It's a cool change and now there is a reason to take a melee that focuses on knockback over a buzzer on DW and DS and maybe take martial arts aced, however, 100% chance to stun with a buzzer is still way better than whatever chance knockback has.
I was tempted to get back into payday 2 after a few years of not playing it, but with these new changes screwing over my previous knowledge I'm tempted not to get back into it if I can't find any fixes for stuff like fire not working, db rounds not proc'ing ovk so I guess my fun pistol ovk aced build is screwed unless I wanna use AP slugs. I really hope some modders fix overkill's mistakes. At this point it feels like the game would be better if we just rolled it back to a certain point.
I only noticed how shields now turn, while standing, in smooth inclements so sprinting around is less reliable. And crashes, all the crashes all the time.
at least it reenabled the NPC Commando 553 and gave sounds to the NPC Mosconi, for my spawngroup and enemy tweaking headass. 14:48 tbf the regular male fbi agents (i.e. fbi_1, fbi_2, and the Hoxout/Undercover FBI Agents) also have the same 480 HP as a light unit, but still, those guys shouldn’t have scaling health or at least have 80 like with mobsters. Also, fun fact, as much as people gas up bronco cops (and by extension bronco fbi agents) they do less damage than a heavy swat, 200 with falloff vs 225 with no falloff.
6:54 *That* was really stupid. I cant even understand what programming error can lead to that; a wall its a wall! Fire not procing ovk is also stupid and now that I head you say that fire and poison can stun cops on crime spree I lost even more the motivation to actually try it.
Pd2 have so many undocumented update that really pissed me even more to not touch the game ever again after update 237. (Even modding won't save it because game even broke it wow) I'm even get to the point to told my gf to remove 80GB broken game for something else instead. And pretty sure that pd2 updates are not gonna reach good quality anytime soon even starbreeze are struggling to get pd3 as good quality game. Oh well at least I have other games to play.
I was wondering why No Mercy with two players was nigh impossible with me and a friend, the KPM required is insane. And we used to duo it without bots casually
Well at least they did something right. They should’ve buffed the reloads or hell even the armor to balance the change. Ammo cap on snipers needs to double now that cops are rolling deep. 30 bullets ain’t gonna cut it.
@@EckSecutive dude, snipers are fine as is, even the 500 damage rifles do fine. I just think shotguns, particularly, the pump actions need a buff in their overall damage. Especially the fucking Reinfeld 880. It's a fucking useless piece of shit outclassed by the Locomotive and turned irrelevant by later shotguns as its fucking awful at anything. Trust me, I've tried Frenzerk or just berserker builds and it really is underwhelming. Even the SPAS-12 has more use as I can juuuuust barely maintain the absolute flood of enemies pouring through it because akimbo goliaths is too goofy for me. What else needs a buff is the fucking AK.762, it's attempting to be a lower damage DMR, which makes it sucky as hell, especially with an ammo pickup that is straight garbage. Only good thing about it is if you want a pseudo DMR without zerking and instead let frenzy do that job so you equal roughly 140 damage or 2 shots to heavies.
Im that guy who has problem with mayhem (im trying my best i swear) so im just gonna trust this guys judgement since he seems to understand more of this game then i ever will
Imma start using "dood" rather then "dude" lol. Plus i dont really play payday 2 these days since one of the most fun i had was playing with randoms and meeting new people, and when things went down hill i just thought "Great, another mindless company, i had high hopes but i guess fuck that" and went on with my life. I play the game once a month, and what payday youtubers, but still i rather do anything else, other then be a part of a another sinking ship.
I played a little bit yesterday for the first time in 6 months after doing some 145+ on PDTH. This game feels AWFUL. I'm convinced that SBZ is trying to destroy this game so we go play this POS of PD3 :)
If that is really what they're doing then they honestly deserve to go bust once this inevitably backfires, because making this game worse won't magically make PD3 worth playing
Much of this seems to be about how a mod (LIES) interacts with the new update. I don't think that should be mentioned in the same breath as vanilla issues. Most people don't play with LIES. The crashes in vanilla are absolutely ridiculous though.
Hence I tried it in that person's lobby. Cops were acting pretty similar to vanilla so it got mentioned around. I wouldn't play it either, seems boring and easy to play
For me the zapper against cops using a rope has always worked like shit, have to hit then multiple times, my brain is wired to expect the game to bug out
Apparantly 240.5 stated that they possibly fixed crashes for older CPUs. But i found that it crashes more often now. even on fucking menus it crashes. Also loud heists are unstable and have a high possibility of crashing, like the game is running super well, then suddenly it freezes and crashes. AHHHH so annoying!
I had to stop playing pd2 on my laptop cause of this a few months ago and get a new PC. Never crashed once before on it and then suddenly I can't even finish a 1 day heist.
More like Update 237 2: Electric Boogaloo (and worse because "-steammm" doesn't work anymore) Edit: oh wow, it's even worse than I thought. GJ, Starbreeze, you could just ask us to stop playing.
Pd2 is also broken on xbox. My friends and i repeatedly had crime sprees ended by the game either crashing or outright not having an objective work and forcing us to return to menu. That isnt even the worst of it. After a while i got a horrible texture big that made all the enemies qhite and untextured along with other strange graphical errors. No matter what i did this would not go away, i looked it up and apparently this has been an issue for a while.
If you're on Next Gen Payday 2 is not optimized for it, had multiple of friends telling me that when they play the game they see that textures are missing, some enemies are just completely white and fire effects are literally big pixels.
@@lazy1518 overkill lost a lot of my respect for that but I was like oh well at least we'll have payday 3 soon but we all know how that turned out. They've fallen from grace imo
I was noticing something was wrong i didnt get any crashes but ai was wrong... hostages cant move more than 1 straight path and i cant tell cops to surrender for some reason...
man i quit payday after u237 in june and seeing whatever is going on with current payday situation is just so sad and pathetic man what did they do to the game and it's sequel
came back to payday after like 4 months and the game is in terrible shape. i have to rejoin the payday 2 community every time on launch so i can have my guns unlocked, i cant join games for some reason because "Failed to join game.", the whole thing just stops working mid heist for no reason... i knew payday was buggy, always has been, but christ this is bad
Surely if the developers took some of the code from Lies they did it wrong. Lies is the only interesting mod that tries to improve the ia, it adds more enemy groups, fixes the tactics of some of these, adds shotgunners to DS among other good changes and you can play with any other player that doesn't have it.
God, they really should have just added the final heist and added nothing else to the game with 237. Payday 2 seriously didn’t need all this forced Epic Games matchmaking baggage along with this new update being the absolute final nail to the coffin.
Gosh, I always forget to read patch notes, but I did notice things being pretty off. Crit flamethrower was my favoritest baby ever, I noticed people getting out of the stun before dying far more often now but I just assumed I was rolling unluckily. This is such a bummer
Im just getting back into payday & wow! I have no idea where to even start! Im so dR behind i didnt even know i didnt have Wick anymore untill a couple months ago!? Really hope they get their shit together ASAP. I keep seeing these low ass player counts on Payday 3 & I can't help but think, is it to late to earn players back?!
overkill small brain plan -no one plays pd3 because its ass -kill payday 2 so people play pd3 -plan doesnt work -nobody plays pd2 and pd3 -overkill is bankrupt
I started after this update, I'm one of the people who has only known being zerged and pinned. I've adapted by taking things with lots of ammo , long reloads, and just using my time pinned and waiting to reload. When everybody moved faster and the foes were more predictable, I'd have been hated. For now though, I can take down 5, 10, 15 waves over the wall, and then finally reload. Swapping from my main to a spray and pray secondary, and sometimes even getting copycat to reload me so I can swap back. It goes against everything I've heard about the old days, but apparently this is evolution?
It's a wonder how Starbreeze is still around given how poorly they treat their only relevant IP and major source of income I genuinely wouldn't be surprised if they close their doors in the coming years
@@KevKild ho ok, might explain why my game is crashing this much recently, thought it was my new computer not supporting the game. Hope they'll fix this mess asap as i can no longer play buluc mansion, game keeps crashing when i hit the start button on this heist
I recently came back to the game after over a years break and my game kept crashing all the time with me and my friend. Had no idea it was because of a recent update
21:25 itll probably be fixed once the table breaks from the weight of all the ideas that theyre "going to add". But like honestly how the fuck is pdth the best payday game. It literally hasnt been updated in over a decade and is more functional and fun then both its successors. How the fuck do you go backwords in game devving
Overkill realised they can't get people to play Payday 3 so out of spite they want to kill payday 2
take your meds
Payday 3 isn't what it's suppose to be i know but you can't be mad about payday 2 just because of the bugs that it got with trying to get the steam, disc and epic players to play together
Least crackpot theory in payday comments
I would play pd3 if it wasn't so overpriced for a demo
@@Jacksnowyy5008yeah I’m guess it wasn’t supposed to be a failure despite them designing the game in everything but the gameplay incredibly fucking terribly to set it up to fail
But not even 6 months and 500 players average on steam lmao. GG starbreeze.
I’m convinced Overkill is doing everything in their power to kill off payday 2 to move everyone onto payday 3.
Yup.
not working very well, pd2 has 20-40k players consistently while pd3 has less than 500
Problem is they are doing a good job at killing pd3 so like are they just trying to kill the series in general or did they forget how to make good games
They were better at making dlc for pd2 this new dlc looks stupid
@@ProjectFrazit's the back 4 blood situation, except this time they have control over the original game.
No more Press F to pay respects
Now is Press F to crash your/others game
Same difference, you just killing the game.
@@artyom2801 i don't considerer it the same, this update is just another show of the disrespect that starbreeze has to their community
(or maybe i just missunderstood your words)
It was a joke cus game dead but now you are actually killing it by pressing F. Crashing being killing. It was supposed to be a joke.
@@artyom2801 ohhhhh lmao sorry brain is stupid
This update really was just "Change for the sake of change" That no one asked for.
@@SiestaYonJyuGo A pre-nerfed version of them that you can't shoot through the shields tho.
change the change
*I guess the console edition no longer receiving any more updates was a blessing in disguise.*
Has been since 237.
console bros stay winning
as a former console player i agree
@@HalTheBotrare flawless console victory???
[Payday 2 needs a update of 10 gb]
Overkill destroying payday 2 each update feels like Bethesda fucking with Skyrim for no reason
In comparison this is somehow even worse; most
Skyrim mods only break because SKSE has to be fixed every update, as offsets, etc in code are changed. New updates are just Todd peddling more paid mods. Ech. But vanilla Skyrim.... still works as it always has. This is overkill making changes to VANILLA GAMEPLAY for literally zero reason- and sprinkling in epic games crossplay with its own huge issues AND completely breaking Linux when it worked JUST FINE before is fucking absurd.
@@bluedogz1624 Both should have been left alone, at least bethesda didn't come and change fundamental things for no reason 10years after release (thou they did chane some fundamental things in one of the AE versions wich messed up with most of the mods with scripts)
I am with you on Bethesda part to be honest i am bit happy people are finally seeing Bethesda what they truly are. Bunch of hacks who cant let go of the past giving how much starfield was a failure and well lookie what happened to skyrim after that game failed? Its not a coincidence they just want to spite people for playing older games that they made that was built for fun and not corpo greed influenced
I hope Overkill realizes that killing off Payday 2 won't bring more players to Payday 3. It will just kill the entire franchise
I knew I wasn't crazy when I started crashing way more often after this update. To think converts were behind it blows my mind.
I somewhat picked up on this after trying to Dominate cops.
A meta shakeup, clearly. Jokers are op. /s
Another small thing: Overkill messing with DoT inflicted on enemies has somehow made them unable to get shocked in the flooded lab in Hostile Takeover, making the System Shocked achievement impossible. I was 3 achievements away from 100% completion when I learned this!
If its truly impossible, either get a modder to fix it, wait for a potential fix (and report the issue yourself), or just use Steam Achievement Manager.
From one achievement hunter to another, you have my full permission to use Steam Achievement Manager once you've replicated it in game.
There is a way. You can download version of the game from 18th July 2023, where this achievment is obtainable
@@heras2320I shouldn't have to download a whole aśs version of the game just to get an achievement that overkill themselves fùckēd over
Man being a fan of this series feels like a chore
i have a conspiracy they are fucking up pd2 to make more people play pd3
Could be true...
funny knowing this just made me hate starbreeze even more and not want to touch the franchise ever again. if anything I feel like they're doing this cause it's the only thing making them money and they want to "improve" it, which backfires horribly.
Well, most likely, but it still won't make ppl play pd3. It seems like pd2 will be killed and nobody will care about pd3 anyway. Ovk is literally shooting themselves in a knee... With comando 101.
Put that crackpot away man
They fr alr took down notoriety tf do they wanna do now
Hmm… kinda happy I pulled out before this update dropped lmao
sad for me cos now i can only flex that ex pd2 youtubers aee oj my friends list😔😔😔
same but i never finished the game so sad
Made such a goated kingpin contractor build aswell right before upd 237😔
I just came back from 2018. I am a time traveler I guess, but it’s so different. Why the medics and medic dozers?!
Damn sucks how much Starbreeze hates their players. I think I'll just keep playing PDTH from now on
W
Until that too gets sabotaged
@@sheshin Highly doubt
The more I play it, the more problems I find.
Send help
Stop playing the game simple
Sad1k
Jump ship to another game
Play something else
Deinstall mods dude especially that animu stuff
i love how every time any game ends up in the hands of people who didnt originally develop it it goes to shit lmfao
OVERKILL trying not to be a horrible company difficulty impossible
(Death Sentence One Down Pro-Job No AI No Converts No Deployables No Tables)
@@tangerinepaint3643 no tables 🤣
So on the hacker pECM. I've been playing hacker lately, and almost always I die during the pECM, because it doesn't stun properly.
EVEN in places like undercover's hallways.
Along with that it takes like a second or 2 FOR IT TO EVEN STUN
I feel like this video is misleading and just far too negative for the sake of being negative. I'll just go in order of some of the things you've mentioned:
- Yes, updates can break mods. It can be annoying, but this has happened with almost every other patch we've gotten over the past decade. Starbreeze is under no obligation to ensure that mods still work after a patch, and the modders themselves aren't obligated to update the mods either.
- The -steamMM launch option still works, they didn't remove it.
- The Counterfeit cops you show are multiple scripted spawns not assigned to group AI, not a proper spawn group. That's why they're all doing their own thing.
- Just because LIES had fixes for issues that were later addressed in vanilla does not mean that code from LIES was integrated. You can even see that the first fix on that mod page is intended to make cops less aggressive, not "more rushy and fast" as you claim.
- I helped work on the custom map that you used to test the LIES AI, albeit to a limited degree. While I didn't create the "Arena" portion of that map, I can't guarantee that it was set up in the best way for AI behavior or pathing. We don't have access to the official editor or documentation that Starbreeze used to create maps, after all.
The particular spot you were standing in past the stairs is considered to be a separate "room" for the purposes of AI pathing. Ahead of you was yet another room, and past the doorway was a third room where the enemies were. I can't speak for the changes LIES makes to the AI, but if all of those sections were considered the same room, they likely would've rushed you instead of "running away" (it actually seems like they were taking cover before preparing to push to the next room).
- The cops getting stuck under the stairs and shooting you from under the bridge has been an issue since Green Bridge released.
- Spawn delays are scripted on a per-map basis. While it is possible to hijack the spawn group elements via code to override their spawn group delays, vanilla code does not do this. The spawns you showed on Birth of Sky are scripted to be available every 4-6 seconds (depending on the exact spawn location), which is why cops are constantly spawning from it.
- It's hard to tell what happened in that clip on The Diamond, but it's possible it was from one of the ground Sniper spawns that's scripted to path over to the hallway in the direction you got shot from.
- Green Bridge is another case of spawn delays scripted on a per map basis. Those ones are set up to be on a 2 second delay.
- Hell's Island: 5 second spawn delays in that area.
- I suspect some of those Molotov changes are a side effect of changing them to use the FragGrenade class as a base instead of the GrenadeBase class. All of the other grenades were changed to use the same base class as well, so it was likely for internal organization/cleanup rather than an intentional nerf.
- Zeal SWATs originally used the tweak data for standard blue SWAT units, which was a headache to deal with internally and made 0 sense. Giving them separate tweak data is actually pretty handy for modders.
- The _female tweak data is so they use the correct voicelines instead of the male voicelines. The health is almost certainly a mistake due to the misleading name though; they inherit stats from "fbi" units instead of the intended "cop" units.
- Flash grenades should still have the proper detonation timer on lower difficulties, but it doesn't get decreased on higher difficulties due to a bug (the timer falls back to the default value instead of checking if it exists in tweakdata first)
- The Shock and Awe behavior was actually changed (unintentionally) back in Update 237, when they optimized how shotgun pellet damage gets dealt to objects. Shock and Awe had a high proc rate with shotguns because every pellet used to cause a separate instance of damage, but now it procs as often as any other gun because it only deals one instance of damage (with the damage dependent on how many pellets landed).
- They did not remove the ability to re-apply fire DOT damage, they actually fixed it. Trying to spam fire the flamethrower would cause the fire damage grace period to constantly refresh, resulting in DOT doing 0 damage until a second after you stopped burning them. You seem to be mixing up the stun animation (which can be triggered by DOT) with the actual DOT damage.
Also, according to The Long Guide, there has always been a 1 second cooldown before you can stun an enemy with fire again.
It's okay not to like a mod. It's not okay to imply that its creator is somehow responsible for the issues you have with the update, when the most they had in common was implementing some fixes for vanilla AI bugs. And it's especially not okay to spread misinformation about issues that have been in the game for years prior to this update.
Alrighty, let's share.
= How is this video misleading when there's several examples and proof, ontop of frustrated players I talked to on Streams, my Discord, or hell these YT comments below? Yes the tone is harder but the game has balance and stability issues right now.
= I get mods break with every update. On average, this update took the longest to get things 'stable' after discovering so many issues. Back to my point, why was the changes needed.
= I was told they broke -steamMM after fixing u237 mess. Did they re-add it? Or is this the fixes mod doing?
= I agree with your point, but also disagree. I know the CF spawn there after the first assault ALWAYS ran behind to the alleyway next to the SWAT vans (before U240.3). However, doesn't derail my point where I have several examples in this video whereas groups are not all the same. I could put 8minutes more of examples to make this video boring than ever.
- Just because LIES had fixes for issues that were later addressed in vanilla does not mean that code from LIES was integrated. You can even see that the first fix on that mod page is intended to make cops less aggressive, not "more rushy and fast" as you claim.
= Pretty conspicuous how an AI change to cops seems to fall in line to the same mod/creator. I'm willing to bet on that parts of LIES are integrated. OVK is pretty known for taking whatever mods and putting it into Payday2.
= True, I didn't do """ Full testing of the LIES mod """ on proving grounds cause 1 lobby had it whilist the game was seriously boring (I can get full vod). But I can't waste time either testing a mod when the main concern is the 20k+ playerbase on vanilla.
The cops taking cover sounds like an excuse when it was a full assault banner. Not run away from heister
=====
= The green bridge spawn I've known for years too. Usually I get tickled by 1 or 2 shots and that's while cops are moving up the stairs. How in the hell are 5 cops stuck and shoot me 4 times, and killed my teammate. That's the re-occurring issue with the update, inconsistency
= That's great to learn about spawn delays about per-map basis. Now is it all balanced correctly to do objectives in a teamplay effort? Birth of sky spawns in my example there is Cafe, only 2 spawn points will occur. It's definitely faster than my previous BoS videos whilst I took the math to find out team KPM is higher after this update.
= What the hell is a ground sniper..? That sniper who killed me is to guard the lockpick door in the diamond vault. But that's the issue again, inconsistent enemies
= Back to your BoS point with Green bridge being 2 seconds, this is makes sense but now we're enforcing sweaty/DPS builds whereas other weapon classes are going to suffer. Was Green bridge changed?
= So more map basis spawn delays? hells island had to be changed cause previous videos/documentation/solos had less spawns. Was it 20 seconds (I'm guessing) by chance? Back to the balance part, does the team/players have adequate pressure to do objectives while not be boring? Was fine before, so these spawn delay changes are going to need thorough map testing. Otherwise they could have posted "We made more objectives engaging for players to keep busy with cops" or something in the patch notes.
=====
= The molotov changes woulda have been quickly figured out. Surprised again why this wasn't documented. It's too bad cause this changes procedures on "Zerking" or other tricks. Builds have always suffered buffs and nerfs so it wasn't a huge deal (lol dlc weapons).
= Curious to know what benefits giving Zeal Swats separate tweak data will bring. Cosmetic, animation, damage values?
= Another interesting note about the female tweak data. But if we're cleaning up these 2 categories, sounds like the game needs a complete overhaul. We still have Russian Units in BP doing DW damage...
= Flashes lmao. Again 2 months? I dunno if the benefit of these tweak data tables or whatever are helping here.
= Surprised to see Shock/Awe nerfed at 237. Probably busy dealing with EGS issues. Eitherway, balance wise the skill sucks. Nerfing shotguns and inherently nerfing this is awful.
= Okay, the one mistake I said wrong during the fire DOT. Doesn't help how the main purpose of flamethrower is to stun as their damage is pathetic to begin with. And same with the DB rounds, has the db-grimm finally been removed? All other fire round shotguns suffer while it stays ontop.
= I never said the mod creator was responsible for this mess. I said parts were integrated to make them feel rushy and fast. Back to the coincidence above, I'm willing to bet on it. But why wasn't this mentioned? At least saying we're making the game less boring with more to shoot seems more responsible. Undocumented changes brings issues, even this accusation you think I'm doing.
And please, stop putting words in my mouth that I'm spreading mis-information. If the examples in this video (and I can easily get more if need) aren't clear enough, and the playerbase not having a good time? Then I wouldn't have posted this at all. If the changes are not documented, how is it mis-information in the first place? From your points, I can correct 1 maybe 2 things for sure.
@@KevKild
"How is this video misleading when there's several examples and proof, ontop of frustrated players I talked to on Streams, my Discord, or hell these YT comments below?"
Some of the issues you are pointing out have been in the game prior to this update and were not caused by this update. Your entire video makes all of the issues out to be this patch's fault, which is misleading.
You also make false claims about LIES code being integrated into vanilla despite not providing any evidence of this whatsoever.
You are also running multiple mods which could be interacting (or overwriting) vanilla code in ways you might not expect. I'm not saying that they are the cause (some of the issues you've pointed out are indeed current vanilla behavior), but there's always the possibility. That is, of course, unless you've actually looked into the code for every mod you've installed, which you can because they don't have compiled code.
"I get mods break with every update. On average, this update took the longest to get things 'stable' after discovering so many issues."
Are you referring to the time it took for mods to be "stable" after an update? There's been way worse than some BLT mods breaking over the course of the 10 years I've modded this game.
"Back to my point, why was the changes needed."
You could say that for a lot of patches we've gotten. Some of the internal clean up and bug fixes made to the game over the past few patches were actually good, but mostly unnoticed if you don't regularly dive into the game's code. And they're always overshadowed by the new bugs or balance changes (intentional or not) that slip in.
"I was told they broke -steamMM after fixing u237 mess. Did they re-add it? Or is this the fixes mod doing?"
As I said, they never removed it. There might have been an oversight that caused the game to crash with it enabled at one point (my memory is a bit fuzzy), but it's certainly not a thing now.
"I know the CF spawn there after the first assault ALWAYS ran behind to the alleyway next to the SWAT vans (before U240.3). However, doesn't derail my point where I have several examples in this video whereas groups are not all the same. I could put 8minutes more of examples to make this video boring than ever."
I didn't really comment on AI behavior because parsing the decompiled AI code would take me hours and interpreting it is out of my area of expertise anyways. Plus, personal anecdotes as to how things should (or shouldn't) act are moot when it's possible to read the code to see how it functions. That is exactly what I did for most of the points in my previous comment; I skimmed through the decompiled lua files and looked at the mission scripting.
"Pretty conspicuous how an AI change to cops seems to fall in line to the same mod/creator. I'm willing to bet on that parts of LIES are integrated. OVK is pretty known for taking whatever mods and putting it into Payday2."
The decompiled lua source for PAYDAY 2 is out there. I invite you to go compare the code to LIES if you're going to make such accusations.
I only know of one instance of Starbreeze actually taking code from a mod, and that was for the FOV relative mouse sensitivity which was stolen from Frankelstner. Every other accusation I've seen of this has been outright false.
"True, I didn't do """ Full testing of the LIES mod """ on proving grounds cause 1 lobby had it whilist the game was seriously boring (I can get full vod). But I can't waste time either testing a mod when the main concern is the 20k+ playerbase on vanilla."
If you didn't want to "waste time" testing the mod, then why make such serious accusations about it? You've shown one snippet of its AI appearing to be stupid (or perhaps acting smart), and then insinuate throughout the video that this is the AI that Starbreeze apparently used as a basis for this update.
"Now is it all balanced correctly to do objectives in a teamplay effort?"
I don't know if they're balanced, that's just how it works. The mappers set up SpawnEnemyGroup elements and give them intervals.
"What the hell is a ground sniper..?"
I meant that the Sniper spawns on the ground and then paths towards that gate.
"Was Green bridge changed?"
If it was changed, it wouldn't have been in this patch. They would actually have to use their map editor to manually edit the delays for each of the points, and I don't believe they have any mappers working on the game at the moment.
"The molotov changes woulda have been quickly figured out. Surprised again why this wasn't documented."
I can only assume that it wasn't documented because there wasn't supposed to be a visible change in-game. It was intended to clean up the code internally.
"Curious to know what benefits giving Zeal Swats separate tweak data will bring. Cosmetic, animation, damage values?"
It's cleaner and easier to parse internally than having to deal with tweak data going from swat > fbi_swat > city_swat > swat in terms of difficulty progression. Not every change is done with the intent of being noticeable in-game.
"Surprised to see Shock/Awe nerfed at 237. Probably busy dealing with EGS issues. Eitherway, balance wise the skill sucks. Nerfing shotguns and inherently nerfing this is awful."
Again, it was a side-effect of their optimization pass for Shotguns. They didn't consider how the old behavior interacted with Shock and Awe and didn't change the skill to compensate for it.
"I never said the mod creator was responsible for this mess."
Why did you say that this update shouldn't have been "put in the hands of modders" in the description then? That sounds like you're blaming the author.
@@Lolnoobwut1 Okay I'll accept that as mis information on my part. So I'll agree that's my mistake. I don't have 1:1 proof via code to code, but a change is a change - especially the countless hours I've done playing this messed up game.
Just very bothersome how myself and folks addressed "LIES has fixes within U240.3" and the "" proof "" has himself on the mod page with edited comments saying so. So did someone else fix those portions and he was told? Hard to say when there's no documentation from OVERKILL.
But I'm not going to back out and say U240.3 is fine, where you may think I'm mis-leading. There are definitely issues this patch and lots people are unhappy about it.
The modders comment. Not all mods are good and not all are bad. While some fix things desperately needed, while others create OP unnecessary weapons or dumb overhauls that don't make the game any more fun. If I wanted to blame the author, I'd say its his fault, but I never did. When there's very close similarities between the vanilla gameplay, LIES changes, ontop of undocumented stuff for 2 months, what do you do. Maybe my wording was bad
@@KevKild
"Just very bothersome how myself and folks addressed "LIES has fixes within U240.3" and the "" proof "" has himself on the mod page with edited comments saying so. So did someone else fix those portions and he was told? Hard to say when there's no documentation from OVERKILL. "
Anyone is capable of checking the decompiled code for PAYDAY 2. The creator of LIES has certainly worked with it to make their mod. They could have easily checked the decompiled code for 240.3 and verified that it fixed the issues they described on the mod page. That does not mean Starbreeze fixed it the exact same way they fixed it.
Please refrain from making comments about stolen code, or the code in general, if you do not have an understanding of how it works.
And because I forgot to reply to it:
"The modders comment. Not all mods are good and not all are bad. While some fix things desperately needed, while others create OP unnecessary weapons or dumb overhauls that don't make the game any more fun."
I'm not seeing how this is relevant. What does this have to do with the update being "put in the hands of modders"?
"If I wanted to blame the author, I'd say its his fault, but I never did. When there's very close similarities between the vanilla gameplay, LIES changes, ontop of undocumented stuff for 2 months, what do you do."
You're saying you're not blaming the author, and then immediately follow it with a comment about the "very close similarities" between vanilla and LIES (which again, is false).
What am I supposed to take away from this? That you blame the mod? The mod was created by someone, which would mean you are blaming the author.
Welp looks like pdth is back on the menu
Everything you'll ever love will eventually become a tarnished shell of its former self. Such is the fate of 99.9% of online multiplayer games that get updates.
Can you imagine getting updates that are so BAD that console is more consistent?
Screams development sabotage. Lmao
They didn't add the mod lies into the game, dont put that shit on the mod author.
OVK did their own version of the fixes lies makes to cop ai but did it in a half assed broken way.
Ive used lies for over a year since its release and none of these issues are present in it.
Playing LIES with one guy was enough for me to say it's a mod not meant for me.
I don't need the game easier, thanks
@@KevKild it doesn't make the game easier?
it sounds like you really just have no idea what the mod even does, or what your talking about.
The mod makes the cop ai smarter, which makes the game _harder_ not easier.
Now the cops will use tactics and maneuver as a squad which they haven't been able to do in vanilla pd2 for years, since ovk broke the ai system.
if you use the dumbed down "vanilla" settings included in the mod instead of the recommended, then yes the cop ai will act dumber, as its not taking advantage of any of the improvements the author made to cop ai logic, and is only using the handful of ai bug fixes they made.
This will expose the flaws in the vanilla cop logic, which is exactly the issues you were experiencing in the game update.
OVK fixed the bugs, but did not implement any of the actual cop ai improvements from the mod.
So again, stop trying to conflate overkill releasing a half assed broken update with the work of a modder who actually fixed the games ai.
@@KevKild Your literally shit talking a mod author and their work when it has nothing whatsoever to do with the update.
They dont work for overkill, they have never worked _with_ overkill, and overkill did not in any way shape or form copy the code from lies to put in the game.
Issue a correction and retraction and stop being an ass to people who dont deserve it.
@@SPITSPHIRE Odd how I never shit talked them. Where you getting this accusation?
And no I don't need to "issue a correction" and I'm not being an ass.
Listen to yourself
@@KevKild you made an entire video where your trying to blame a mod author for the issues with the update and then reiterate it in the video description:
_"this update is horrible and probably shouldn't have been rushed or put in the hands of modders."_
i def should have noticed the rushy ai after being swamped on henrys rock even with 20+ kpm
myself, my friends, folks on my discord and stream all saying the same thing. Don't think this change is healthy
I play on and off. Me and my friend started playing again not too long ago and we always played on Overkill. My friend said "did they make overkill harder" and while doing bank heist I went to move a civ into the teller room and the AI walked a little bit, then stopped.
I knew something was up.
Right? This isn't a DSOD difficulty issue, not everyone can play highest difficulty. hang in there
@@KevKildhave you heard of the “fixes” mod?
Oh my god this always happens to me.
@@CavinLee I woulda got mods but they caused my game to be literally unplayable (I couldn't do anything) and I had to reinstall. The fixes mod did that btw.
@@The-S-H3lf-Eater check the crash report and make sure you get the ++ shit that they tell you about
trying to go 30 mins without freezing is nearly impossible
Its just me or this happened more often ? My ssd goes 100 disk on this game recently
I can't play 3 heists in a row without expecting a crash
No wonder why I get very long to infinite loading screens most of the time now... with NO MODS
Please don't say my mod's code got added to the official game.
I work on LIES for fun, stop making stuff up.
That's great, thank you for posting.
But how else would things get fixed from your code while you confirmed it?
I'm guessing some OVK person snagged it
What do you mean? I didn't confirm anything?
No OVERKILL person snagged it. Nothing in the decompiled code indicates that something (if anything) was taken from LIES.
If you're not gonna even go through the decompiled code and compare. Don't bother making accusations like that.
If you want be miserable that's fine, but don't pull people that had nothing to do with it into it.
@@fugsystem9720 Your own mod page, edited by you, confirmed several sections were fixed in U240.3
How else did you find out?
There's multiple ways to fix an issue, just because OVERKILL fixed the issue in their own way doesn't mean they used my code or my way of fixing things.
My fixes are hacky because I work within the limitations of SuperBLT and making sure that players who do not have the mod have proper networking with people who do, OVERKILL's fixes were much more direct and proper.
Either way, it means that you either have no idea what you're talking about in the video (and therefore shouldn't be talking about it), or you're making stuff up.
I had to delete half of my mods (mostly music) to be able to join lobbies. Otherwise, i will be stuck in loading screen forever. I still have this problem, but now i can join game with 50% chance.
At this point I'm convinced they just don't want you to play Restoration Mod with how little time between updates there is.
speaking of, I am fairly certain Kev would hate resmod based on how ZEAL Heavies aren’t mentally inhibited laser beams but I’m curious to see him play it, idk why
I knew there was *something* super messed up about cop spawns after the update. It felt like there was just double what they normally were across the board.
I understand doing some final clean up before fully moving to Payday 3, but so far it has pretty much just been extensive balance changes for no conceiveable reason.
this requires map and balancing all over the place. With nearly 100 heists, is this a good change?
They're still updating this game after payday 3s launch? I thought they were done with PD2
crazy to think that. Hence I feel the modders are going to take over PD2.
@@KevKild I mean yeah obviously modders would, it's the fate of any popular game that is no longer updated but why are overkill still putting resources into PD2? Wasn't the game in an already smooth state before this patch?
just think a little do you think the updates for payday 2 is for the good of the game or the players or to make the game worst so we go to payday 3 ?
@@JustSippingTea Kinda? Ignoring some shit updates and feature creep, they at the very least put in enough to fix a chunk of EGS matchmaking integration. Not really where it was pre-EGS but hey at least it was in a state where they could've left it without anybody up in arms.
Here's some 240.3 changes I've encountered:
-Due to the faction changes, federales lights do proper light damage now (67.5).
-Getting tazed from zapper grenades or zapper ammo for GL's won't auto-reload your weapon anymore (lmao).
-Cant shout 'stop' at other players anymore, only bots.
-Melee knockback value for every melee (base or charged) has been increased by x10. It doesn't show it in the melee selection, it still shows the pre-240.3 values.
Not actually sure if 240.3 is the reason for this change, didn't play enough between 240.0 and 240.3 to have noticed this before.
For those curious: melee knockback has a chance to proc if the knockback value is the same or lower as the remaining enemy health.
Fists for example has a knockback of 90 (110 fully charged) and won't try to proc knockback until the remaining enemy health is 90 (or 110 when fully charged) or below.
With new knockback values the health has to be 900 (1100 when fully charged) or below for knockback to proc.
Also, martial arts aced increases the knockback value by an additional 50%; bloodthirst, berserker basic and crits don't affect knockback.
It's a cool change and now there is a reason to take a melee that focuses on knockback over a buzzer on DW and DS and maybe take martial arts aced, however, 100% chance to stun with a buzzer is still way better than whatever chance knockback has.
I was tempted to get back into payday 2 after a few years of not playing it, but with these new changes screwing over my previous knowledge I'm tempted not to get back into it if I can't find any fixes for stuff like fire not working, db rounds not proc'ing ovk so I guess my fun pistol ovk aced build is screwed unless I wanna use AP slugs.
I really hope some modders fix overkill's mistakes. At this point it feels like the game would be better if we just rolled it back to a certain point.
The flamethrower is now officially worthless because it can't crit.
Maybe this is to force people to play Payday 3. Lol
Oh, isn't that beautiful.
Two birds one stone, huh?
So my flamethrower shotgun build is unusable now
I only noticed how shields now turn, while standing, in smooth inclements so sprinting around is less reliable. And crashes, all the crashes all the time.
The "shield smooth turn" glitch is much, much older than this update
at least it reenabled the NPC Commando 553 and gave sounds to the NPC Mosconi, for my spawngroup and enemy tweaking headass.
14:48 tbf the regular male fbi agents (i.e. fbi_1, fbi_2, and the Hoxout/Undercover FBI Agents) also have the same 480 HP as a light unit, but still, those guys shouldn’t have scaling health or at least have 80 like with mobsters.
Also, fun fact, as much as people gas up bronco cops (and by extension bronco fbi agents) they do less damage than a heavy swat, 200 with falloff vs 225 with no falloff.
6:54 *That* was really stupid. I cant even understand what programming error can lead to that; a wall its a wall!
Fire not procing ovk is also stupid and now that I head you say that fire and poison can stun cops on crime spree I lost even more the motivation to actually try it.
It's been a thing for years but more prominent now than ever. Yaaaay..
I dont want to edit the comment so I dont lose the heart, but I meant "... and now that I *heard* you say that fire and poison *cant* stun cops ..."
@@EnderMega that's for crime spree
@@KevKild Oh, sorry, it wasnt directed towards you, its just that I saw some errors in my gramar thats all kk.
welp, time to never return to payday and look for an alternative, unless they revert the changes
Pd2 have so many undocumented update that really pissed me even more to not touch the game ever again after update 237. (Even modding won't save it because game even broke it wow)
I'm even get to the point to told my gf to remove 80GB broken game for something else instead.
And pretty sure that pd2 updates are not gonna reach good quality anytime soon even starbreeze are struggling to get pd3 as good quality game.
Oh well at least I have other games to play.
I feel you there, and yeah there's tons other games I play on stream and hope others enjoy too
This stupid update corrupted my save file and i lost my 1400 hours of progress
Use the backup in the cloud
Then backup your save on the PC
@@kawaka4432 cloud save doesn't work
@@kawaka4432 too late my friend
@@Licht_Umbra cloud save works, you need to disable prior to not work
Spawn frequency is definitely up, try playing Undercover. It is an absolute SWARM.
I was wondering why playing undercover and hotline miami felt so hectic. At least it makes lower difficulties more fun ig.
I was wondering why No Mercy with two players was nigh impossible with me and a friend, the KPM required is insane. And we used to duo it without bots casually
Well at least they did something right. They should’ve buffed the reloads or hell even the armor to balance the change. Ammo cap on snipers needs to double now that cops are rolling deep. 30 bullets ain’t gonna cut it.
@@EckSecutive dude, snipers are fine as is, even the 500 damage rifles do fine. I just think shotguns, particularly, the pump actions need a buff in their overall damage. Especially the fucking Reinfeld 880. It's a fucking useless piece of shit outclassed by the Locomotive and turned irrelevant by later shotguns as its fucking awful at anything. Trust me, I've tried Frenzerk or just berserker builds and it really is underwhelming. Even the SPAS-12 has more use as I can juuuuust barely maintain the absolute flood of enemies pouring through it because akimbo goliaths is too goofy for me. What else needs a buff is the fucking AK.762, it's attempting to be a lower damage DMR, which makes it sucky as hell, especially with an ammo pickup that is straight garbage. Only good thing about it is if you want a pseudo DMR without zerking and instead let frenzy do that job so you equal roughly 140 damage or 2 shots to heavies.
5:14 hey that's me!
i actually realised you were right and had removed lies when you saw me again on crimenet and said i couldn't beat it _with_ lies
hey there, while it may be fun to try for others. it's definitely not my thing. Nearly fell asleep xd
Overkill has a hard on for balance all the sudden. Gotta try make payday 2 boring because ‘Mug competitive balance!’
Im that guy who has problem with mayhem (im trying my best i swear) so im just gonna trust this guys judgement since he seems to understand more of this game then i ever will
damn I feel for you, hang in there dood
Imma start using "dood" rather then "dude" lol.
Plus i dont really play payday 2 these days since one of the most fun i had was playing with randoms and meeting new people, and when things went down hill i just thought "Great, another mindless company, i had high hopes but i guess fuck that" and went on with my life. I play the game once a month, and what payday youtubers, but still i rather do anything else, other then be a part of a another sinking ship.
I played a little bit yesterday for the first time in 6 months after doing some 145+ on PDTH. This game feels AWFUL. I'm convinced that SBZ is trying to destroy this game so we go play this POS of PD3 :)
If that is really what they're doing then they honestly deserve to go bust once this inevitably backfires, because making this game worse won't magically make PD3 worth playing
@@Helios2737 yeah well, it's overkill. or sbz, same thing. they're just scummy like that
Ohey hope all is good.
Yeah things right now are pretty awful but hopefully something great comes out
Much of this seems to be about how a mod (LIES) interacts with the new update. I don't think that should be mentioned in the same breath as vanilla issues. Most people don't play with LIES.
The crashes in vanilla are absolutely ridiculous though.
Hence I tried it in that person's lobby. Cops were acting pretty similar to vanilla so it got mentioned around.
I wouldn't play it either, seems boring and easy to play
For me the zapper against cops using a rope has always worked like shit, have to hit then multiple times, my brain is wired to expect the game to bug out
man overkill seems to be doing an awful lot of updating for a "dead game"
Apparantly 240.5 stated that they possibly fixed crashes for older CPUs. But i found that it crashes more often now. even on fucking menus it crashes. Also loud heists are unstable and have a high possibility of crashing, like the game is running super well, then suddenly it freezes and crashes. AHHHH so annoying!
I had to stop playing pd2 on my laptop cause of this a few months ago and get a new PC. Never crashed once before on it and then suddenly I can't even finish a 1 day heist.
Only game where its harder to get into a game then playing it
I started playing Fortnite after 5 years or something.
I think I have been wasting my time with console payday 2 and payday 3 now.
now im happy console doesn't get updates, ill gladly play outdated payday 2 over this
More like Update 237 2: Electric Boogaloo (and worse because "-steammm" doesn't work anymore)
Edit: oh wow, it's even worse than I thought. GJ, Starbreeze, you could just ask us to stop playing.
Have you tried the -steamedhams command?
@@artyom2801 At this time of year, at this time of day, in this part of the country, localized entirely within your Steam launcher?
@@siperog yes!
@@artyom2801may I use it?
Interesting Video.
I have been playing restoration mod for a while and havent really noticed those issues you brought up. Highly recommended :)
Pd2 is also broken on xbox. My friends and i repeatedly had crime sprees ended by the game either crashing or outright not having an objective work and forcing us to return to menu. That isnt even the worst of it. After a while i got a horrible texture big that made all the enemies qhite and untextured along with other strange graphical errors. No matter what i did this would not go away, i looked it up and apparently this has been an issue for a while.
If you're on Next Gen Payday 2 is not optimized for it, had multiple of friends telling me that when they play the game they see that textures are missing, some enemies are just completely white and fire effects are literally big pixels.
@@lazy1518last gen w
@@lazy1518 yes! That's exactly what I have
@@lazy1518 overkill lost a lot of my respect for that but I was like oh well at least we'll have payday 3 soon but we all know how that turned out. They've fallen from grace imo
Payday 2 is still fine on Last gen, just a bit slow and still buggy
0:43 Ohhhh. So thats why my game keeps crashing at the end of an heist.
Dont worry guys, PD3 will be fix, they called the veteran team, avengers, league of justice, swat, elon musk, Rambo, and Northstar from titanfall
I was noticing something was wrong i didnt get any crashes but ai was wrong... hostages cant move more than 1 straight path and i cant tell cops to surrender for some reason...
There should be a rule on steam that doesn't allow updates, unless the community tests it first.
The last 3 updates broke dragon's breath for me, i want them to revert way more than this
"Man, that's too bad that Payday 2 is broken. Hey did you hear about the sequel we just made that has a struggling player count?"
When you think it just about can't get any worse...
This is why I'm thankful they aren't returning to Payday: The Heist.
whenever i see a redflame screenshot as evidence I take it with a grain of salt after being in mws for so long
Hi Mel
hi tang
The anime really adds to the experience
man i quit payday after u237 in june and seeing whatever is going on with current payday situation is just so sad and pathetic man what did they do to the game and it's sequel
Back 4 blood all over again but even worse
5:52 the way they’re smart is by avoiding you /j
came back to payday after like 4 months and the game is in terrible shape. i have to rejoin the payday 2 community every time on launch so i can have my guns unlocked, i cant join games for some reason because "Failed to join game.", the whole thing just stops working mid heist for no reason... i knew payday was buggy, always has been, but christ this is bad
Surely if the developers took some of the code from Lies they did it wrong. Lies is the only interesting mod that tries to improve the ia, it adds more enemy groups, fixes the tactics of some of these, adds shotgunners to DS among other good changes and you can play with any other player that doesn't have it.
yeah I don't know how else you can confirm fixes when an update is implemented.
God, they really should have just added the final heist and added nothing else to the game with 237. Payday 2 seriously didn’t need all this forced Epic Games matchmaking baggage along with this new update being the absolute final nail to the coffin.
I thought the same but here we are
Gosh, I always forget to read patch notes, but I did notice things being pretty off. Crit flamethrower was my favoritest baby ever, I noticed people getting out of the stun before dying far more often now but I just assumed I was rolling unluckily. This is such a bummer
Im just getting back into payday & wow! I have no idea where to even start! Im so dR behind i didnt even know i didnt have Wick anymore untill a couple months ago!? Really hope they get their shit together ASAP. I keep seeing these low ass player counts on Payday 3 & I can't help but think, is it to late to earn players back?!
Thank God that I didn't update to 237 or anything after.
Overkill should just migrate PayDay 3 to Godot so we can have more enemies and shit
no wonder why I keep getting crashes and failed to initialize wren
For me this is actually the game version of the saying "i leave home for a few days and look what happens"
9:00 hey what build you using in there I’m new so don’t know the weapons and so on sry if this annoying
Sniper was a build request from stream so I can't remember. Was the R93 sniper with Sociopath first aid kits
overkill small brain plan
-no one plays pd3 because its ass
-kill payday 2 so people play pd3
-plan doesnt work
-nobody plays pd2 and pd3
-overkill is bankrupt
Karma. PD2 saved made them after the first saved them from bankruptcy.
I never used converts…
You'd probably shit your pants after seeing how strong they are
@@KevKild I know how good they are, I have them on my builds I just keep forgetting 😭
@@KevKild can confirm though, pants shit in…
I started after this update, I'm one of the people who has only known being zerged and pinned. I've adapted by taking things with lots of ammo , long reloads, and just using my time pinned and waiting to reload. When everybody moved faster and the foes were more predictable, I'd have been hated. For now though, I can take down 5, 10, 15 waves over the wall, and then finally reload. Swapping from my main to a spray and pray secondary, and sometimes even getting copycat to reload me so I can swap back. It goes against everything I've heard about the old days, but apparently this is evolution?
Oddly enough, most of my crashes have been by pressing T...in an offline lobby.
Then I just crashed deep into a stealth run pressing F. Send help.
It's a wonder how Starbreeze is still around given how poorly they treat their only relevant IP and major source of income
I genuinely wouldn't be surprised if they close their doors in the coming years
I dont know if its just me but some stairs seem to have issues with their collision recently
noticed it in dragon heist as well as in scarface mansion
i noticed with my hud mod (vanillahud) the jokers health doesnt move and doesnt track their kills.
When did this update release? I'm not having any updates on steam
This was exactly 2 months ago
@@KevKild ho ok, might explain why my game is crashing this much recently, thought it was my new computer not supporting the game. Hope they'll fix this mess asap as i can no longer play buluc mansion, game keeps crashing when i hit the start button on this heist
Killed steam matchmaking?
Did they disable it, or just make every player move into epic?
the -steamMM workaround back then, that's what they killed
@@KevKild -steamMM still works, do note it is case sensitive
I mostly play solo, and haven’t updated yet. Should i update or no?
I recently came back to the game after over a years break and my game kept crashing all the time with me and my friend. Had no idea it was because of a recent update
21:25 itll probably be fixed once the table breaks from the weight of all the ideas that theyre "going to add". But like honestly how the fuck is pdth the best payday game. It literally hasnt been updated in over a decade and is more functional and fun then both its successors. How the fuck do you go backwords in game devving
Overkill really said I wanna destroy my IP and company as fast as possible, I hate money, and having a loving community too.
my game crashed too but different reasons: too quicly changed profiles; opened chat; load preplanning too early and shooting for too long
WHY CANT THEY JUST LET THIS GAME BE? WHYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY
Is there mods that can fix this problems? Like i want to play back, but i hate when crashes or its broken
Man I remember I crashed my game once by opening chat on black cat
If PD2 is any indication PD3 will be playable in 2027.
Absolute bs, so many issues. Anyone got a clue on what the latest working version is and how to revert to it?
I literally one day decided to play and it just refuses to start a game even in offline I still have no clue what causes it I sorta just gave up
Update 236 is last good update.
Oh hey, hope you're doing good