40 is the best civilian SD cartridge all day everyday. It's hard to screw up 40. Nearly 20 years of watching all the ammo testing from everyone and 40 never disappoints.
The 165gr .40 only got 1140 fps out of a 4.5 inch barrel. That would put it at 1110 fps out of a 4 inch barrel, no thanks. The 357 Sig is the real deal with 357 Mag velocities!
It's hilarious when people say that 40 isn't much better or even any better than 9mm now and then say 40 is harder on the gun. Or that 40 has too much kick by comparison. But then they'll go to +p or +p+. I mean, do y'all have any critical thinking skills or what? 😂
I never heard that a 40S&W USP broke but the Geman army for a while shot a steady diet of very hot 9mm out of their USP. The ammo was designed for machine pistols and were at +p+ levels. After they had problems with slide cracks HK told them that the USP is not designed for that. 9mm +p and +p+ has more pressure than 40 S&W.
if you used your critical thinking skills youd understand in real world shootings its really not noticeably better. The .40 is harder on the gun. Its a proven fact but that doesnt also prove its more effective than 9mm.
Well , good performance, And great price . If my local suppliers had Gold Dot for the same 50 rd prices , and the HST was $30/ 20 rds , I would be carrying Gold Dot , and feel just as confident.
Great test, Tools. I carry 357 Sig in a G33, but I have a .40 S&W barrel for it, too. I hope 357 Sig makes a comeback. There are lots of folks out there who love it. 👊👍🇺🇲
Yea, a Glock 33 is kind of a short barrel for 357 SIG. It's not terrible but it's not giving you its best. I get right at 1,400 with my Glock 32. What 357 SIG delivers that 9mm doesn't is a huge amount of energy in a concealable gun, about 600 efp and deep penetration. Also, 357 SIG barrier penetration is in another league compared to 9mm. The issue with +p and +p+ 9mm is that the projectiles expand too quickly and under penetrate. Even 124 +p HST only averages 14-15 inches. I consider that bare minimum of exceptable. @@sleepymornings
I recently got a 40S&W pistol, the Beretta 96A1. After shooting it i realized all the smack talk about 40 S&W is because most people don't know how to shoot.
I found the 96A1 to recoil terribly. Even worse than a smaller .40 Glock. The best pistols I've fired to handle .40 well are the S&W M&P 2.0, Beretta PX4, and Sig 226.
I own a used Glock 22 gen 4. I have added Glock Store .357sig, LWA 9mm & .40S&W Alpha barrels. My 22 is fine. The magazines are ✔️ . I clean it often with Clenzoil CLP or Slip 2000 EWL.
The 357 Sig is a beast, and the 40 S&W is highly underrated. Great test of 2 of my favorite calibers. Away from home, it’s one of these 2. At home it’s the 1911 and 45 ACP. Love your channel. Keep up the good stuff.
I think because it came out during the same period as a slew of other niche rounds. 45 GAP was one of them. Haven't heard anything about that round for a while...
It suffered from a few problems. Sig's naming made a lot of other manufacturers not want to adopt it (9mm Super would have marketed better), it is a necked cartridge which is harder to load and reload, and Sig gave up on it way too fast, amongst other things. I think they should have given it a decade or more to breathe. Serious professionals very much appreciate the round, and some outdoorsmen do as well.
Tools your content played a big part in changing my mind on the .40 you just can't argue with results. It is one of the more modern rounds developed. I love my .45 and 9mm But nether can do what the .40 can.
I carry the 165 hst , I also have a barrel for .357 in my G27... Its a handful. The .40 as always did a great job. Thanks for the test! Have a great weekend
Excellent test; that .357 Sig was cookin'. I wish it was more popular and not so dang expensive to shoot nowadays. I have an all-stainless German-made P226ST I bought in 2004. The extra weight makes it very comfortable and pleasant to shoot. It feels more like you're popping off mil-spec Winchester 9mm NATO rounds than .357 Sig. I would run Corbon 115gr jacketed hollow points back in the day for defensive use. Those suckers would hit around 1550 fps out of that gun. Shooting melons and water jugs with them was always entertaining. I also have a .40 S&W barrel for it, so I mostly shoot 155gr American Eagle FMJs these days to avoid paying 5.56 prices for the .357 Sig equivalent. It's interesting how everything has gone from 9mm to .40 and .357 and back to 9mm over the years, but it also makes me feel old, haha.
I really appreciate this testing. They are both really good cartridges. The 357 Sig unfortunately is dead, currently Sig Sauer doesn't even chamber a pistol in their cartridge. 40 S&W is great, I agree with you that 165 grain is the sweet spot. 180's are too slow for 100% expansion. Both Federal rounds performed great. Thanks for testing off the beaten path.
Totally agree with you Tools .40 S&W is the do all caliber, simply the best. .357 Sig is excellent bust costs too much. Not as soft shooting as my new 5.25" Canik in 9mm (nothing is) but .40 is manageable on my hands all day long and I'm 68 years old.
Old guy here. Shot both calibers extensively in the younger days…just don’t appreciate the abuse anymore, especially with 357 sig. Good comparison however.👍
When 40S&W HST is going for $24 50ct box, I'm currently rockin a 40. For everything I have in a carry 40, there's a matching one in 357 Sig. For about the last 8 years it's been a G23 or a P239 in 40 or 357. There's just something about the G23 that right now is the perfect storm.
I believe if you’re comparing calibers you should go either light for caliber on both, heavy for caliber on both or midway on both. It would be pretty silly to compare .357 mag to .44 mag and try to find a 158gr load for both because that’s heavy for .357 mag and lighttt for .44 mag. I almost always use middle of the road, 124gr in 9mm for example and if I was considering .40 I would want to know how that 9mm would stack up against the ammo I would be using in .40 which would be 165gr.
Agreed! While 357 sig is a g great rd it's limited to two great rds, 65/68gr UW ED and 125gr JHP both perfectly suited for urban carry. 40SW is a great general purpose round, rural or urban defense. My EDC is 10mm.
Carried the sig p229r in .357 sig for 23 years as a LEO...speer GDHP in 125 grain ...not a better round for self defense. It works. Take it over the 9mm or .40cal or any other rounds ion similar caliber .
23yr? Wow? What agency? From what I recall Delaware State Troopers were the first to carry P229s in .357sig caliber. VA-Virginia troopers used .357sig & later Richmond VA cops too.
As far as new loads for .357 Sig, it's pretty much already there as far as being at the top of its game, so to speak with the defensive loads available right now. Almost any JHP loading on gun store shelves will work and work very well.
The lack of any new guns now or in the future is the biggest killer of it. Not everyone is in the " I already got my one gun" crowd. Matter of fact, most aren't. That alone is enough reason to know this caliber is destined to ride off into the sunset for anyone except the most dedicated fans. P.S. I typed that as I was telling my 10mm Glock what an alpha it is, and that it will always have new friends to hang out with.🤭
👍🏻😎 Back in the mid 90's and up to 2007 I carried a .40 cal loaded up with CorBon 135gr JHP +P ammo. 1325fps and 526ftlbs. That was right on par with the .357 Sig IMO. I'd like to see a comparison of those rounds in the jelly just for shits and giggles.
My Glock 33 is my All The Time weapon. Loaded with HST's. Reliable and accurate gun. I don't do gel test but after seeing your video today, I know I've chosen wisely. Thank you sir.
I am switching up from 9mm to 40 in a Beretta PX4 Storm compact carry. I use the Underwood ehp rounds. If I am not using the Underwood, I try to run something as light as possible, 135-grain-ish.
I remember my first pistol at 21 back in 2012 .. was a gen 2 G22 . That peice never failed me at the range ... still rotate between 9mm, 40 for my edc ..all my guns get rotated for edc even my Derringers when I am working on my car in the driveway all my guns need time outside the safe
I have to admit, your tests are swaying me to the 165 HST. It gives great performance, without abusing the pistol or it' operator. Plus, finding a good 165 practice round to match the HST is pretty easy. Thanks for the presentation!
Thanks in part to you, my carry load in my .40 S&W is now the 165 grain HST. I've got a bit of the 165 grain Gold Dot, but it's old now. I carried a 9mm for many years, but as the "world" zigged wholesale to that caliber, I decided to zag back to the .40. It's just a solid choice. I've got scattered lighter and heavier weights, too, but my primary go to round is that HST in 165 grains.
357 sig is Hot! Have an M&P in 40 with the Sig barrel. Great tool. Good test! Nice to see anything that's not a frekking 9mm. Sick of that round!😅 Thanks again
I'd bet the farm that you won't see any new gun in .357 Sig, other than maybe some unknown oddball of a company maybe if the owner carries it or something.😂
Outstanding! And the win goes to ...BOTH! Yes Sir, great results. Good choice for a head to head. I picked up both of these this summer on trade at a couple gun shows. A few hundred of each. I am set for the year in my 40s. Whether I run stock 40 or 357 Sig barrel I am good to go. Thank you.
@@ToolsandTargets I actually expected the Sig to have a more pronounced or great impact damage. From here it didn't seem to be the case. And you didn't declare it to be much different.
@@guardianminifarm8005 Yeah, there really wasn't a lot of difference in the gel. I guess in the grand scheme of things, even this "significant" energy difference isn't that big of a difference.
Tool's you are the absolute king of personal protection device and ammo testin. I am definitely going to stock up on both of these protection components. I have the G31 with the same 40 barrel. Please keep up the good work you will always be remembered as a ammo testin legend. 🇺🇲🇺🇲🇺🇲
Hikock45 commented that the Sig was unpleasant to shoot because the blast was so loud. And then the 40 expanded to a noticeable larger diameter as well. Most likely the 357 Sig ammo is more expensive as well. For these reasons the 40 is the winner. And the 9mm wins over the 40 because of world wide acceptance, cost, ease of shooting, & ammo capacity.
I carry both those calibers in a Sig and a Glock, either one of those calibers will serve you well. Thank you for sharing my friend, God bless America and long live the Confederacy. Hopefully in a few weeks we're still going to have America?.
Regarding the locked open after firing, I’ve heard some Glock G22 mags don’t work as well with the 357 Sig. I have a bunch of 40 S&W mags for my G22’s and have never had a problem with 357 Sig ammo. But, I’ve read that some have.
Thanks for another great one! My solution to this problem is owning both. Both loads are my choice as well. You can clearly see how much more lively the 357 rocks the block.Yet these loads are superb performing service caliber offerings and either does its part if the shooter does his. Three-fifty-seven clearly takes the win for the name as well. There's a reason they didn't call it 9mm Mag or 355 Super. While a 1360FPS rating with a 125gr pill is dubious it brings me joy to see them handily busting 1400 as they should. Great job Federal! Please show some of this love to your 10mm loadings.
The reason the slide of locking back is because your thumb is pushing the slide stop up during recoil. It happens a lot with extended slide stops or Glocks with a lot of muzzle flip like the .357 sig!
Everyday it’s a headbanger for me. I can’t decide if I want to carry a .40 or .357Sig as my EDC. It’s like if asked “who’s your favorite child? “. There’s no individual favorite, when all of your kids are equally your favorite! So I flip a coin and today the .357 Sig in the Glock 32 wins out. Tomorrow it might be a Glock 33 or 31 or one of my .40 variants. I ❤️ choices! I don’t have any HSTs in .357Sig at the moment, but I do carry the 125gr Speer Gold Dots. For my .40’s, I currently have them loaded up with 180gr Winchester Rangers that I source from a local supplier.
My carry pistol is a S&W Shield 40 with a .357 sig barrel. I still have 10 boxes of Underwood Gold Dot .357 sig. Holding onto it like Gollum and the ring.
Great test Brian. I have been an hst snob for years, so this was perfect...lol. Full disclosure I carry 9mm 99% of the time but do have my G22 as one of my home defenders, with that exact ammo. I have been contemplating getting a G23. I do like .40, a lot. I am with you on numbers. Energy is often overlooked, and that is one of the most important aspects in stopping a threat. The caliber arguments make me chuckle. I don't discount anyones argument. Carry what you like and what you shoot well and with which you can effectively defend yourself and your family. I do enjoy the passion people have for their preferences. Now everyone go grab your 9, 40, 45,22,38... whatever, hit the range and have fun...lol. I'll see you out there.
Great test! The .40 165 gr HST is what I've been carrying this year. I'd like to see a couple more inches of penetration but pretty good performance. My guns have standard rifling and 4 to 4.4 in barrels. The 4 in tested to @1070 fps from my chronograph. That's two different 4" guns. I haven't chronographed the 4.4 yet.
A lot of folks have buried a many a cartridge and yet they are still kicking up dust on shooting ranges. Not too long ago the experts said .40 short & weak was dead because Police department dropped the round from their duty weapons. And yet, still kicking. If the .357 Sig used an odd ball projectile I might agree, however it is nothing more than a 9mm put into a hotrod cartridge. I think it will be here for many years to come. Great presentation. Cheers!
I have a Glock 23 and 27 and have .357 SiG barrels for both. I carry Underwood 125 gr. .357 SiG in the 27 with a #22 Wolff recoil spring. HST 165 and 180 grain for the 23.
40S&W is still a great caliber. And with the 135gr loads its even head on head energy wise with 357 Sig if you want. But its also versatile . You can go up to 200gr hand loads even 220gr.
By the time I go for 9mm in 147 grain, it’s treading into 40 territory but with not much cartridge space as the 40 for powder. I believe 40 is a much better caliber due to the extra room for powder - thanks to ultralight micro nines, 9mm can be seen as the new 380, and thanks to new tiny 380 pistols, they make 380 is the new 22/25/32. 40 is therefore the new compact and subcompact ammo of choice - it sings in Glock 23 and even 27, and if you really need a micro 40, there’s still the Shield single stack.
Your channel is amazing, l subscribed. Oh speaking from experience it doesn't matter the size of the bullet is all about bullet placement. Cant wait for more videos.
Check out the .40 and .357Sig in all Copper. I have some bullets in .40 all copper, truncated hollow points. Have some 38/357 bullets in similar design to those you presented. Nice Job amigo. I been dodgin' Hurricanes. This report eases my mind as I don't have time to go test my loads, and the indoor ranges prohibit reloads. But they are in my catalog.
Both are excellent cartridges. I shoot both in several different pistols. I am former law enforcement and an avid outdoorsman. The 357 SIG is the best law enforcement round available. The 40 SW is the best EDC for the armed citizen. If you know, you know.
Taking ammo cost and recoil into consideration the 40 S&W would be the winner for me. I use Buffalo Bore 155 grain +p and it performs pretty much identical to the HST 125 grain .357 sig.
Several years ago at a ballistic seminar put on by our local FBI office, we were shooting organic ballistic gel and I got to do a side-by-side comparison of the 165 gr HST fired from my 3.1" barrel Kahr PM40 and an HST (either 165 or 180, I don't remember) fired from a Glock 22 with a custom 6" barrel (a darling of a not-quite-local PD's SWAT lads). Shooting through light clothing (two layer of cotton t-shirt) both rounds stopped at 16" and looked identical. I was impresses as I figured from my little pocket gun we would see very little expansion but the fact the same bullet (possibly 40 gr heavier) from twice the barrel length did identically (and I mean had near identical wound paths, both very impressive) really sold me on the .40 S&W. I really like the idea of the .357 SIG but cost and availability are a huge negative, plus I hear it is hard on the guns too.
Love that you don't forget about the .40 and .357 sig!
All Calibers Matter! 😎👊
Absolutely 👍🏾
A shirt idea!
@@BillHimmel he's an equal opportunity shooter
40 is the best civilian SD cartridge all day everyday. It's hard to screw up 40. Nearly 20 years of watching all the ammo testing from everyone and 40 never disappoints.
Tried and true.😎👊
Never?
I'm a 40 fan also, but every test I've seen of Remington HTP sailed through 32" of gel. Obviously the 40 can be done well or poorly.
@@craigbenz4835I've seen 88 gr .380 HTTP go through 32" of gel, too. It's a poor bullet in that caliber also
357Sig is better statistically and in real world. …not by much, but it is.
Don’t know why people hate on the 40. It’s a great caliber.
Because some people are recoil sensitive pussys!
Because it took the spotlight from 10 mm for far too long.
It’s because they have soft wrists!
Merica!
I dont hate the .40, its just not that much better than the 9mm. 40 is harder on the shooter and on the gun.
Carried 40 HST during my law enforcement career and still carry same after.
Does the job well.😎👊
165 grain?
I remember little bit when i dug in to the 40sw was 155gr to 165gr wad the go to rds for Leo
@@thor992000 respect 🫡
The 165gr .40 only got 1140 fps out of a 4.5 inch barrel. That would put it at 1110 fps out of a 4 inch barrel, no thanks. The 357 Sig is the real deal with 357 Mag velocities!
It's hilarious when people say that 40 isn't much better or even any better than 9mm now and then say 40 is harder on the gun. Or that 40 has too much kick by comparison. But then they'll go to +p or +p+. I mean, do y'all have any critical thinking skills or what? 😂
Very true 😅
🤷♂️
I never heard that a 40S&W USP broke but the Geman army for a while shot a steady diet of very hot 9mm out of their USP. The ammo was designed for machine pistols and were at +p+ levels. After they had problems with slide cracks HK told them that the USP is not designed for that. 9mm +p and +p+ has more pressure than 40 S&W.
if you used your critical thinking skills youd understand in real world shootings its really not noticeably better. The .40 is harder on the gun. Its a proven fact but that doesnt also prove its more effective than 9mm.
@livewithnick old data. +p and +p+ are harder on the gun than standard 40
Always love seeing 357 sig content! One of the best overall rounds!
😎👊
I still don’t understand why they don’t put the 357 sig in a pcc.
@@eriklambert3809 ik that the Kriss vector, aero survival rifle, spr pro, and the moriarti arms ar can all be had in 357 sig.
HST continues to impress. Don’t have any experience with the 357 Sig, but am a big 40 fan. Thanks for the jelly test Tools!
You're right! 165 gr is exactly what we should run in our 40s
💥😎👊💥
165gr was common for PDs, state LE 🚔 units 1990s early 2000s. They had few problems or complaints. Winter or summer.
This type of performance is why HST is what I have the most of.
Safe bet.😎👊
Well , good performance, And great price .
If my local suppliers had Gold Dot for the same 50 rd prices , and the HST was $30/ 20 rds , I would be carrying Gold Dot , and feel just as confident.
I just picked up my first .40 time to study tools& targets.
Not too many bad .40 S&W rounds.😎👊
What a smart choice
165g HSTs are cheap on Targetsportssusa site. Membership is worth it for me..
My pistols have never had a hiccup with the stuff.
@@Redsaber98 You'll always get a good education with this young man.
Great test, Tools. I carry 357 Sig in a G33, but I have a .40 S&W barrel for it, too. I hope 357 Sig makes a comeback. There are lots of folks out there who love it. 👊👍🇺🇲
Performance is no question. Kinda strange that gun companies have basically abandoned it and still make new guns for other very odd rounds.
I clocked some of those 125 gr hst's at 1310 fps from a G33. I think of 357 sig as a 9mm magnum.
Yea, a Glock 33 is kind of a short barrel for 357 SIG. It's not terrible but it's not giving you its best. I get right at 1,400 with my Glock 32. What 357 SIG delivers that 9mm doesn't is a huge amount of energy in a concealable gun, about 600 efp and deep penetration. Also, 357 SIG barrier penetration is in another league compared to 9mm. The issue with +p and +p+ 9mm is that the projectiles expand too quickly and under penetrate. Even 124 +p HST only averages 14-15 inches. I consider that bare minimum of exceptable. @@sleepymornings
@@sleepymornings357 is very much 9mm magnum for sure!
Man, I don’t think you can go wrong with either of these rounds. Gotta love that HST
Facts
Absolutely love the 357 Sig! That’s why I had to make my Frankenstein GEN 5 Glock. G45 lower, G23 Gen 5 upper and a KKM barrel.
I recently got a 40S&W pistol, the Beretta 96A1. After shooting it i realized all the smack talk about 40 S&W is because most people don't know how to shoot.
I found the 96A1 to recoil terribly. Even worse than a smaller .40 Glock.
The best pistols I've fired to handle .40 well are the S&W M&P 2.0, Beretta PX4, and Sig 226.
I own a used Glock 22 gen 4. I have added Glock Store .357sig, LWA 9mm & .40S&W Alpha barrels. My 22 is fine. The magazines are ✔️ . I clean it often with Clenzoil CLP or Slip 2000 EWL.
Amen!
Beretta's basically point themselves 😎
Thanks Tools,.....40 is my go to Ammo.
😎👊
The 357 Sig is a beast, and the 40 S&W is highly underrated. Great test of 2 of my favorite calibers. Away from home, it’s one of these 2. At home it’s the 1911 and 45 ACP. Love your channel. Keep up the good stuff.
Honestly 40 s&w dosen't do much of anything bad. I'm surprised though that the 357 sig didn't gain more popularity for a woods gun like the 10mm.
Yeah, Gun manufacturers just straight up ditched it.
I think because it came out during the same period as a slew of other niche rounds. 45 GAP was one of them. Haven't heard anything about that round for a while...
@@curt2742 I forgot about the gap
It suffered from a few problems. Sig's naming made a lot of other manufacturers not want to adopt it (9mm Super would have marketed better), it is a necked cartridge which is harder to load and reload, and Sig gave up on it way too fast, amongst other things. I think they should have given it a decade or more to breathe.
Serious professionals very much appreciate the round, and some outdoorsmen do as well.
Good test!
40 is the correct answer vs human sized questions
💥🧟♂️🧟♀️💥
357sig is the correct answer when the targets are a little bigger and tougher than human sized questions 😂😂😂 💪 🏆
HST is my go to, in all calibers. Good comparison test 👍🏼
Thank you sir.😎👊
I converted one of my G22s to 357 SIG as well. Two great calibers.
Loved this Tools! I'm still a .40 fan boy.
Same here 😏
Tools your content played a big part in changing my mind on the .40 you just can't argue with results. It is one of the more modern rounds developed. I love my .45 and 9mm
But nether can do what the .40 can.
I carry the 165 hst , I also have a barrel for .357 in my G27... Its a handful. The .40 as always did a great job. Thanks for the test! Have a great weekend
Thank you sir. You too!😎👊
That's my jam. I carry the 357 SIG HST in my Glock 32.
I'm averaging 1402 fps out of my Glock 32
😎👊
Are you meaning that it locks back after every shot or are you saying it works well in your pistol?
@@cgsimons1187 hahahahaha!
I might have went with, "oh so you put it on your toast?"
Yep. It literally did jam. Every freaking round...
I have always been a huge fan of .357 Sig! Great comparison.
😎👊
40 in my Beretta PX4 is my go to SHTF handgun. Those 165s look great to me.
😎👊
Same exact gun for me. Shoots so smooth and accurate with a lot of power!!
Me three.
Excellent test; that .357 Sig was cookin'. I wish it was more popular and not so dang expensive to shoot nowadays. I have an all-stainless German-made P226ST I bought in 2004. The extra weight makes it very comfortable and pleasant to shoot. It feels more like you're popping off mil-spec Winchester 9mm NATO rounds than .357 Sig. I would run Corbon 115gr jacketed hollow points back in the day for defensive use. Those suckers would hit around 1550 fps out of that gun. Shooting melons and water jugs with them was always entertaining. I also have a .40 S&W barrel for it, so I mostly shoot 155gr American Eagle FMJs these days to avoid paying 5.56 prices for the .357 Sig equivalent. It's interesting how everything has gone from 9mm to .40 and .357 and back to 9mm over the years, but it also makes me feel old, haha.
I really appreciate this testing. They are both really good cartridges. The 357 Sig unfortunately is dead, currently Sig Sauer doesn't even chamber a pistol in their cartridge. 40 S&W is great, I agree with you that 165 grain is the sweet spot. 180's are too slow for 100% expansion. Both Federal rounds performed great. Thanks for testing off the beaten path.
357sig is probably my most favorite handgun caliber
And Sig abandoned it
@@FoulPet M&P did too, 2016. You can still find a few .357sig Shield, M&P barrels. KKM is a ✅️ shop.
Totally agree with you Tools .40 S&W is the do all caliber, simply the best. .357 Sig is excellent bust costs too much. Not as soft shooting as my new 5.25" Canik in 9mm (nothing is) but .40 is manageable on my hands all day long and I'm 68 years old.
I know of two Texas DPS troopers who carry .357 Sig.
😎👊
Know a Deputy Sheriff who carries .357 Sig as well...
I'll take the .65" with 17.5" inches penetration over .55" with 19" penetration . Factor in price and availability, to me it's no contest.
😎👊
Not to mention, during the time when all the retards were panic buying ammo, most places still had .40 S&W in stock.
Old guy here. Shot both calibers extensively in the younger days…just don’t appreciate the abuse anymore, especially with 357 sig. Good comparison however.👍
When 40S&W HST is going for $24 50ct box, I'm currently rockin a 40. For everything I have in a carry 40, there's a matching one in 357 Sig. For about the last 8 years it's been a G23 or a P239 in 40 or 357. There's just something about the G23 that right now is the perfect storm.
I believe if you’re comparing calibers you should go either light for caliber on both, heavy for caliber on both or midway on both. It would be pretty silly to compare .357 mag to .44 mag and try to find a 158gr load for both because that’s heavy for .357 mag and lighttt for .44 mag. I almost always use middle of the road, 124gr in 9mm for example and if I was considering .40 I would want to know how that 9mm would stack up against the ammo I would be using in .40 which would be 165gr.
I love this test because I edc both of the rounds in P-229's.
Nice 😎👊
Both did a good job
Yep
Agreed! While 357 sig is a g great rd it's limited to two great rds, 65/68gr UW ED and 125gr JHP both perfectly suited for urban carry.
40SW is a great general purpose round, rural or urban defense.
My EDC is 10mm.
10mm gang.😎👊
Great video! The .357 sig is my guilty pleasure
Thank you sir. It's probably the best round that has been dropped as far as continued support from gun makers.
Carried the sig p229r in .357 sig for 23 years as a LEO...speer GDHP in 125 grain ...not a better round for self defense. It works. Take it over the 9mm or .40cal or any other rounds ion similar caliber .
23yr? Wow? What agency? From what I recall Delaware State Troopers were the first to carry P229s in .357sig caliber. VA-Virginia troopers used .357sig & later Richmond VA cops too.
No surprise here. Love those HST tests. Reassures me with the 40 and 357 Sig. Thanks!
😎👊
As far as new loads for .357 Sig, it's pretty much already there as far as being at the top of its game, so to speak with the defensive loads available right now. Almost any JHP loading on gun store shelves will work and work very well.
The lack of any new guns now or in the future is the biggest killer of it. Not everyone is in the " I already got my one gun" crowd. Matter of fact, most aren't. That alone is enough reason to know this caliber is destined to ride off into the sunset for anyone except the most dedicated fans. P.S. I typed that as I was telling my 10mm Glock what an alpha it is, and that it will always have new friends to hang out with.🤭
Awesome 40 s&w round I use them in my Glock 23 Gen5 and Taurus G3C and perform super good out of both! Great test Tools 💪💪
👍🏻😎 Back in the mid 90's and up to 2007 I carried a .40 cal loaded up with CorBon 135gr JHP +P ammo. 1325fps and 526ftlbs. That was right on par with the .357 Sig IMO. I'd like to see a comparison of those rounds in the jelly just for shits and giggles.
🔥😎👊🔥
My Glock 33 is my All The Time weapon. Loaded with HST's. Reliable and accurate gun. I don't do gel test but after seeing your video today, I know I've chosen wisely. Thank you sir.
Both did impressive work. These calibers deserve more love.
Great comparison!
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Plan on reloading .40 over the winter. Shooting for $0.20 a round for practice ammo. Thanks for the testing.
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I am switching up from 9mm to 40 in a Beretta PX4 Storm compact carry. I use the Underwood ehp rounds. If I am not using the Underwood, I try to run something as light as possible, 135-grain-ish.
Hornady and Underwood make 357Sig in 147gr. I carry that hiking. Carry lighter, faster stuff for self defense.
I remember my first pistol at 21 back in 2012 .. was a gen 2 G22 . That peice never failed me at the range ... still rotate between 9mm, 40 for my edc ..all my guns get rotated for edc even my Derringers when I am working on my car in the driveway all my guns need time outside the safe
I got some that haven't seen sunlight in a while.😆
I have to admit, your tests are swaying me to the 165 HST. It gives great performance, without abusing the pistol or it' operator. Plus, finding a good 165 practice round to match the HST is pretty easy. Thanks for the presentation!
Great round.😎👊
Thanks in part to you, my carry load in my .40 S&W is now the 165 grain HST. I've got a bit of the 165 grain Gold Dot, but it's old now. I carried a 9mm for many years, but as the "world" zigged wholesale to that caliber, I decided to zag back to the .40. It's just a solid choice. I've got scattered lighter and heavier weights, too, but my primary go to round is that HST in 165 grains.
It just works.😎👊
Have both, like both, and reload for both. I lean more toward .357 sig since 10mm reloading competes for 40 projectiles to reload.
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357 sig is Hot! Have an M&P in 40 with the Sig barrel. Great tool. Good test! Nice to see anything that's not a frekking 9mm. Sick of that round!😅 Thanks again
Thank you sir. 😎👊
I guess I'll be pulling my model 23 out of the safe and looking to buy some of that HST today!
Good Luck!
Springfield needs to make a commander size emissary in 357 Sig
I'd bet the farm that you won't see any new gun in .357 Sig, other than maybe some unknown oddball of a company maybe if the owner carries it or something.😂
Another great review. I really appreciate your ballistic tests. They are very helpful when looking for the right carry rounds.
Outstanding! And the win goes to ...BOTH! Yes Sir, great results. Good choice for a head to head. I picked up both of these this summer on trade at a couple gun shows. A few hundred of each. I am set for the year in my 40s. Whether I run stock 40 or 357 Sig barrel I am good to go. Thank you.
Thank you sir. Can't go wrong with these if you tried.😎👊
@@ToolsandTargets I actually expected the Sig to have a more pronounced or great impact damage. From here it didn't seem to be the case. And you didn't declare it to be much different.
@@guardianminifarm8005 Yeah, there really wasn't a lot of difference in the gel. I guess in the grand scheme of things, even this "significant" energy difference isn't that big of a difference.
@@ToolsandTargets 96% efficiency rate. It's the difference that makes a difference!😳🤣
Having a 357 Sig Glock, allows you to swap out barrels and shoot 40 as well. Big advantage if you are concerned about ammunition availability.
Tool's you are the absolute king of personal protection device and ammo testin. I am definitely going to stock up on both of these protection components. I have the G31 with the same 40 barrel. Please keep up the good work you will always be remembered as a ammo testin legend. 🇺🇲🇺🇲🇺🇲
Appreciate that!😎👊
155 grain is the optimal weight for maximum case capacity, Sec Density, and BC for .40SW. Underwood loads it to 600 ft/lb all day
Hikock45 commented that the Sig was unpleasant to shoot because the blast was so loud. And then the 40 expanded to a noticeable larger diameter as well. Most likely the 357 Sig ammo is more expensive as well. For these reasons the 40 is the winner. And the 9mm wins over the 40 because of world wide acceptance, cost, ease of shooting, & ammo capacity.
I carry both those calibers in a Sig and a Glock, either one of those calibers will serve you well. Thank you for sharing my friend, God bless America and long live the Confederacy. Hopefully in a few weeks we're still going to have America?.
Let's hope so.😎👊
357sig is my favorite choice. and 357magnum of course.
357 Sig would be my choice. If I had to pick.
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Regarding the locked open after firing, I’ve heard some Glock G22 mags don’t work as well with the 357 Sig. I have a bunch of 40 S&W mags for my G22’s and have never had a problem with 357 Sig ammo. But, I’ve read that some have.
That sig is slower than it should be, but still good performance. Two very underrated calibers. Thanks for the test.
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Thanks for another great one! My solution to this problem is owning both. Both loads are my choice as well. You can clearly see how much more lively the 357 rocks the block.Yet these loads are superb performing service caliber offerings and either does its part if the shooter does his. Three-fifty-seven clearly takes the win for the name as well. There's a reason they didn't call it 9mm Mag or 355 Super. While a 1360FPS rating with a 125gr pill is dubious it brings me joy to see them handily busting 1400 as they should. Great job Federal! Please show some of this love to your 10mm loadings.
Great test. Always like seeing 40 content.
Thank you sir.😎👊
The reason the slide of locking back is because your thumb is pushing the slide stop up during recoil. It happens a lot with extended slide stops or Glocks with a lot of muzzle flip like the .357 sig!
Wrong. There is not an extended slide stop on here. It was just gritty and sticking inside the frame like I said.
Another very good test, both did a great job
Thank you sir.😎👊
Amazing performance. HST is simply awesome.
No doubt.😎👊
When I see .40 in the title, I cant get here fast enough. Love the .40 content, Tools
I picked up a couple more rounds at the local shop.😎👊
Everyday it’s a headbanger for me. I can’t decide if I want to carry a .40 or .357Sig as my EDC. It’s like if asked “who’s your favorite child? “. There’s no individual favorite, when all of your kids are equally your favorite!
So I flip a coin and today the .357 Sig in the Glock 32 wins out. Tomorrow it might be a Glock 33 or 31 or one of my .40 variants. I ❤️ choices!
I don’t have any HSTs in .357Sig at the moment, but I do carry the 125gr Speer Gold Dots. For my .40’s, I currently have them loaded up with 180gr Winchester Rangers that I source from a local supplier.
Excellent test!!!! I like both calibers. Thanks!!!!
Thank you sir.😎👊
My carry pistol is a S&W Shield 40 with a .357 sig barrel. I still have 10 boxes of Underwood Gold Dot .357 sig. Holding onto it like Gollum and the ring.
Precious! 😆
Great test Brian. I have been an hst snob for years, so this was perfect...lol. Full disclosure I carry 9mm 99% of the time but do have my G22 as one of my home defenders, with that exact ammo. I have been contemplating getting a G23. I do like .40, a lot. I am with you on numbers. Energy is often overlooked, and that is one of the most important aspects in stopping a threat. The caliber arguments make me chuckle. I don't discount anyones argument. Carry what you like and what you shoot well and with which you can effectively defend yourself and your family. I do enjoy the passion people have for their preferences. Now everyone go grab your 9, 40, 45,22,38... whatever, hit the range and have fun...lol. I'll see you out there.
Thank you sir. You definitively cleared the weeds. 👍
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Great test! The .40 165 gr HST is what I've been carrying this year. I'd like to see a couple more inches of penetration but pretty good performance. My guns have standard rifling and 4 to 4.4 in barrels. The 4 in tested to @1070 fps from my chronograph. That's two different 4" guns. I haven't chronographed the 4.4 yet.
Both are excellent choices and both performed fantastic
I like that you can use one gun and magazine for both of those excellent calibers with just a barrel swap.
It is pretty convenient.
A lot of folks have buried a many a cartridge and yet they are still kicking up dust on shooting ranges. Not too long ago the experts said .40 short & weak was dead because Police department dropped the round from their duty weapons. And yet, still kicking. If the .357 Sig used an odd ball projectile I might agree, however it is nothing more than a 9mm put into a hotrod cartridge. I think it will be here for many years to come. Great presentation. Cheers!
Have both. Love both. Carry both. Thanks T&T!!
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I have a Glock 23 and 27 and have .357 SiG barrels for both. I carry Underwood 125 gr. .357 SiG in the 27 with a #22 Wolff recoil spring. HST 165 and 180 grain for the 23.
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40S&W is still a great caliber. And with the 135gr loads its even head on head energy wise with 357 Sig if you want. But its also versatile . You can go up to 200gr hand loads even 220gr.
By the time I go for 9mm in 147 grain, it’s treading into 40 territory but with not much cartridge space as the 40 for powder. I believe 40 is a much better caliber due to the extra room for powder - thanks to ultralight micro nines, 9mm can be seen as the new 380, and thanks to new tiny 380 pistols, they make 380 is the new 22/25/32. 40 is therefore the new compact and subcompact ammo of choice - it sings in Glock 23 and even 27, and if you really need a micro 40, there’s still the Shield single stack.
Your channel is amazing, l subscribed. Oh speaking from experience it doesn't matter the size of the bullet is all about bullet placement. Cant wait for more videos.
Thank you sir!😎👊
Check out the .40 and .357Sig in all Copper. I have some bullets in .40 all copper, truncated hollow points.
Have some 38/357 bullets in similar design to those you presented. Nice Job amigo. I been dodgin' Hurricanes.
This report eases my mind as I don't have time to go test my loads, and the indoor ranges prohibit reloads. But they are in my catalog.
So, depending on the barrel, the G22 can fire S&W .40, Sig .357, and 9x19mm. That would make this pistol the best post-apocapoliptic carry.
Can't wait for this one. I have both barrels for my P226.
Tough to call a winner in this one.
The 10mm came back to life, no reason the 357 Sig can't.
I sure wouldn't put my money on it.🤷♂️
I'm guessing "not enough difference to make a difference", to quote the late great Paul Harrell.. 40s&w out of my recently purchased Sig P229.
Both are excellent cartridges. I shoot both in several different pistols. I am former law enforcement and an avid outdoorsman. The 357 SIG is the best law enforcement round available. The 40 SW is the best EDC for the armed citizen. If you know, you know.
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Both good stuff. I found 180 40HST at 50¢ and 175 Critical Duty at 40¢ today
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I had tons of issues with my Lone wolf barrel. So much so that I removed it and thru it in a box.
Cool video 2.of my favorite caliber. Sometimes 40S&W marked mags has issues with 357sig in glock. Sig mags are marked for both
Thank you sir.😎👊
Sig & Wesson jelly time! 😂 Dude nice!
Taking ammo cost and recoil into consideration the 40 S&W would be the winner for me. I use Buffalo Bore 155 grain +p and it performs pretty much identical to the HST 125 grain .357 sig.
Yeah, BB doesn't mess around.
I have an assortment of 40 but no hst...yet , one of these days as its awesome stuff !
Great test 👍🏻, and I agree, 40S&W for me (between these two).
Several years ago at a ballistic seminar put on by our local FBI office, we were shooting organic ballistic gel and I got to do a side-by-side comparison of the 165 gr HST fired from my 3.1" barrel Kahr PM40 and an HST (either 165 or 180, I don't remember) fired from a Glock 22 with a custom 6" barrel (a darling of a not-quite-local PD's SWAT lads). Shooting through light clothing (two layer of cotton t-shirt) both rounds stopped at 16" and looked identical. I was impresses as I figured from my little pocket gun we would see very little expansion but the fact the same bullet (possibly 40 gr heavier) from twice the barrel length did identically (and I mean had near identical wound paths, both very impressive) really sold me on the .40 S&W. I really like the idea of the .357 SIG but cost and availability are a huge negative, plus I hear it is hard on the guns too.
HST is nearly fail proof.