I find it really funny is that it is canon that Nightwing is richer than Bruce, but in the comics hes ALWAYS forgetting he's rich and just being shocked when he realizes 'oh shit I can buy more than 1 slice of pizza!!' Im also so glad you talked about Raven having Desi origins because no one ever mentions it😭
People who will cry about “being faithful to the original” when we have more black/fem/queer characters will totally ignore it when actual OGs were diverse
It’s sad, but true, haters are always gonna hate. I just think it’s really interesting when a white guy like Nathan Fillion gets cast as Guy Gardner, and all the people who complained about Halle Bailey not being a natural redhead were very silent that day.
@@nathanlongsI don't think most of them are haters. Some of them just don't about this stuff. Not even I knew about this before the video. But people are going to hate!
@@juliemesser2053 The thing is, that excuse would work....if they didn't speak on things like they actually knew what they were talking about. They always act like they know exactly what they are talking about and it emboldens them to be childish.
I never knew that Raven had Desi origins, but she’s definitely never read as white to me until being portrayed by a white actress in the live action show. Maybe because I’m a multiracial person of color, so I just saw what I wanted to see, but I loved Teen Titans specifically because of I saw them as being diverse. Watching different iterations of them, Robin was the only one that I thought was white. To me, Beast Boy read as Latino, Starfire read as Biracial, and Raven read as racially ambiguous but more leaning towards POC. I also enjoyed Raven’s goth aesthetic being portrayed via a POC lense because the aesthetic is not tied to race, anyone can be goth. I enjoyed feeling like many cultures were represented in Teen Titans because so often in media when attempts are made to show inclusivity/diversity, there are still more white characters over POC characters and representation matters. I’m not saying that each friend group has to have a representative from every race 😂 but that’s just how I saw the Teen Titans and it worked well in my head cannon. That all being said, I love your portrayal of them here. The live action show let me down a bit. I enjoyed the grit of it, but I would have liked if the show portrayed them more like you did here, bring the teens into modern day but keep them as teens not young adults.
All of my friends that I’ve talked to about this have a similar experience! I think Raven being so white in the live-action show just had her feeling off the whole time. Especially with beast boy and raven being very racially ambiguous in the cartoon. A LOT of people interpret them both as people of color, and I think it adds to their characters when we have that interpretation; I would like to see more of it! I’m so glad you liked my redesigns🤍🤍🤍 Reading your comment was so nice because it was so thoughtful, I loved hearing about your experience watching/interpreting the show. Maybe we’ll get a more diverse run on the characters soon!🤞🤞
Oh yeah, Beast Boy definitely reads as Latino, while Koriand'r... I flip between her reading as Irish or Caribbean depending on the artist, so biracial gels there too.
The big thing I think with Dick being Romani is that it's great that he is Romani, the writer who made that choice did it to "exoticize" and further sexualize him. It would be great to see an actual Romani writer get a chance to fix that aspect and make it better.
couldn't have said it better myself. the author who chose to make him romani was a _nightmare_ who used it exclusively to objectify and degrade him. she didn't just make him a person of color, she made him a person of color who was "controlled by touch" and who lost all of his decades of history around being an intelligent and compassionate leader, for the sake of horny nonsense. and she used it to batman say slurs. i didn't like it! i do hope someone comes along and does romani dick justice but it always feels like its used to degrade him or not brought up at all. (similar things could be said about damian.)
Interesting, I alway saw Raven as indian, in the TV show she isn’t caucasian “white”, she’s literally white (or more of a gray imo), so I thought that was a goth thing or an alien/magic thing and not a reflection of her race.
Hey Hi Hello I'm South Asian, specifically Sri Lankan, and I just wanted to express that the Raven design made me so so so happy!!! I love the way the saree was draped and the pattern you used, and I love her hair texture and how deep her skin color is!!!
THANK YOU!! This comment made me grin ear to ear🤍🤍🤍, I’m so happy you liked the design. She really was the inspiration for the entire video✨ thank you for watching !
This video made me think of a scenario where someone points at Robin and says "nepo baby!" and Robin's like "I'm not a nepo baby" and all the teen titans are like "yes you are" and that's just so funny to me
The beastboy segment was a real mood. I really liked the redesigns and how you talked about diversity without making the video too heavy. Its inspirational, informative and inspiring. Really great to learn all this stuff and everyone rocked their outfits. :D
Yes! I love the idea of Cyborg as a JL member, but DC had NO idea what to do with him after they did it! Drove me nuts! I personally came up with a potential story line about him being taken back to new genesis (Because of the mother box in his new origin) and becoming one of the new gods... I wish I had the patience to write/draw it
Oh my gosh, that sounds so cool! If you ever write or draw it as fanfiction definitely comment down below with the link! Cyborg hanging out with big Barda and Orion and Mr. miracle is really funny/cool to me.
This was actually really touching ;; I'm half Indian and when I first saw those original designs of Raven I went down the same rabbit hole! But when i tried to look for fanart I couldn't find anything which was sad, but now youve done it! I feel weird about putting my emotions out but this was very heartwarming and means a lot to me 😊
I adore your representations of these characters. I think Starfire is also my fave from the Teen Titans show. I love how she is so sweet but also so incredibly powerful.
SHE IS SO POWERFUL. She’s like the Superman of the group! She’s the mitochondria of the cell! I love that the heaviest hitter of the group can also be so kind and gentle. It’s such a great dichotomy.
He’s just so COOL, and as former very uncool teenager I would have loved to have a friend like Cy! He had some of my favorite moments in the show (him infiltrating the Hive, the "Troq" episode, titans east, ext) so I always want to read more of him.
Love these redesigns, Beast Boy was always my favorite cause I liked his powers the most. At least until the end when Raven gets the scary cool red tattoos. I think I like your version of BB the most, but they all are so good!
These were some pretty solid redesigns, I liked how you harkened back to the original designs while seeing what they'd look like if made today. I will say, I never knew that about Raven and her design origins, I suppose I shouldn't be surprised though. My favorite era of the Titans on TV has to be the original show from 2003, it certainly made Cyborg my favorite member of the team. I just love how Cyborg, despite all the terrible things that have happened to him, is always trying to keep upbeat, to live his life and to be more than just a machine. Now I kinda really want to see what you'd do with DC's Global Guardians, though, as crazy as that sounds
@@nathanlongs Yeah, they are a really deep cut of some of DC's most mistreated heroes. I do gotta say that they do still have one of the most amazing concepts for a team. However, their appearance in the Super-Friends book is pretty fun. The potential is there, just waiting to be seized upon, at least to me
14:23 "hes a football player so i just made him really hot and really muscular and hes a jock what do you want from me?" thats a karina core answer If Ive ever hear of one
The Beast Boy slander TToTT I always loved BB and his plant-based, transmasc, unmedicated ADHD vibes. I thought you gave Robin the keys because he's the Friend with a Car (because daddy is rich), but the motorcycle is so Correct, excellent job.
ohhh my good they look so amazing! i love your ideas of them as gen z teens, and the modern issues theyd have to deal with. i would read that in a heartbeat omg
this video is an absolute gem?? i had no clue that raven was originally indian, even though she was always my favourite. seriously though, you're so well-spoken and the art is brilliant, this is so underrated!!!
I think the sort of background conversation about Raven's origins makes logical sense but it probably best to get a sense from Indian comic-reading populations regarding how they feel about the issue. But beyond that, I absolutely love these reinterpretations
I wrote a longer comment but as a half Indian person I loved this, unlike romani Dick there's not as much fanart or fanfics so I was overjoyed that Nathan did this 😊
Thank you LuckParadox!!!!!! I don’t know if anyone else finds this stuff interesting but I get a kick out of it, thank you for watching and supporting🤍🤍🤍
good to hear you mention Florian!! he was the first channel i went to when i found out about my Romani heritage, so he means alot. uh like grayson i'm romani on my mum's side (unlike him it's like one 5th). ALSO ALSO these designs rock, as always!
This was amazing! I always love seeing the Titans I grew up with! Personally my favorite depiction (outside of the comics) is definitely the 2003 series. I would love to see what your redesign of the Young Justice Core Four would look like (Tim Drake, Bart Allen, Cassie Sandsmark and Kon-El)! I also think a redesign of the original Titans would be amazing! Love your art!
Thanks! Cassie would be fun to redesign just because I love her Wonder Woman lore. I don’t know if I could do better than 90s Superboy if I’m being honest! Thanks for the lovely comment🤍
I mean ultimately maybe the best thing is making her mixed. Given the fact original she was modeled after two women. After all despite rejecting being Indian but Arzthaian. A good way is mixed
Great redesigns! My fav is Beast Boy; my favorite era of TT is the late 90s and early 2000s runs where the original Titans were growing up and moving on, and the core four Young Justice kids came in as the next generation. Really loved Gar during that period. Also, my soul shriveled up and wept a little when you were trying to figure out what generation the Wolfman + Perez team was. They're early Gen X, truly the most forgotten generation T_T (love, a an elder millenial who prefers identifying as part of the Gen Y micro-generation for reasons)
i love these redesigns so much and the final illustration turned out beautiful!! im always amazed by your colors and composition work, plus you nailed that perspective 💖
Seeing as being a vegetarian is already canon for BB, it’s not hard to imagine he would go vegan. I love these designs so much! You did an amazing job! I’m definitely a 2003 girly, I had the biggest crush on BB at the time lol.
When I was younger I never thought most of the teen titans were white. Here where my headcanons though they aren't actually what I think now. I don't know what made me assume these types of things i was 3 to 6 when it aired so i legit didn’t even know all these words and more so had a vauge image/idea in my head Raven: Turkish/Romani/Armenian Starfire: Latina Dick Grayson: White Cyborg: Black Beast Boy: Indigenous
Love this video! My first exposure to the titans was probably Teen Titans Go and even though it’s not liked by everyone I was always drawn to the characters as a group. Their designs and personalities are all so distinct but really appealing I think. I was interested to hear about the diversity in their backstories too. I hope future iterations take that all into account.
It was easy to punch down on teen titans go when it first came out, but it’s such a fun show! It’s so indulgent in the lore of DC and it’s so hilarious!! And their designs are v cute. Thank you for sharing🤍✨
@@nathanlongs Daddy dearest... I like all of your designs for them! I giggled and went "Karina-core" when you said "I made him hot, what do you want from me?!".
I love Raven's design here! Raven and Beastboy were probably my favorites when I watched the 2003 cartoon series, but I have mixed feelings about Raven now. Not that she's done anything wrong. I just enjoy drawing ravens and other corvids, and Raven (character) is hard to filter out when I'm looking for images or information about raven (birb). But that's not the character's fault 😅
I love Teen Titans 2003, I loved how Raven looked as well as Blackfire , I loved their designs, and I loved the way you redesigned the characters how you drew Raven and Starfire as their proper depictions from in the comics , which that is doing those characters a lot of justice , and your avatar looks cute
Disclaimer: I am white. But I like the idea of Jinx being POC and albino. I feel like part of being inclusive is letting everyone have weird origin stories that do things like change their skin color or give them animal limbs. "They're this race so their skin is this color" is just putting them in another box. That's why I'm partial to Raven's grey skin from the 2003 Titans.
Thanks for sharing! I often ponder about using natural vs using stylized colors for poc. Anime characters can have any number of unnatural eye/hair colors, yet they’re race/ethnicity doesn’t depend on it. But we do lack adequate representation for people of color in media overall. I think the answer is to have both! The most important thing is to get the numbers up. If all the poc characters are stylized that’s an issue with colorism, but we also shouldn’t limit poc creators into having to always use prescriptive naturalistic colors, they deserve the same amount of creative freedom that white creators have had for generations! I think it’s important to have artistic expression, while being mindful of anti-racism/anti-colorism when making art. That was so long-winded, that’s just my opinion. Thank you for sparking such an interesting conversation! I love 2003 Raven too. I’m happy she’s sort of getting a second chance of life with teen titans go and also the Raven graphic novel by Gabriel piccolo.
@@nathanlongsThanks for replying! I feel the same way. Moderation in all things is the best. I'm just so trope averse I wind up also noticing & hating anti-tropes, if that makes sense. 😅 Thanks for your great work! If it weren't for this video I never would have known Dick Greyson is Romani.
Honestly people of colour used to be under represented in goth culture and I love seeing them on insta all the time! I love I’ve seen some more goth poc in mainstream media, It is their time to shine ✨ my mom as an OG goth of the 80s used to tell my friends of color that it’s music movement and didn’t fucking matter what people told them because some goths used to say it “just didn’t look right on darker skin” which is stupid. Having a “cool” elder in your subculture defend you sometimes helps and those friends are actually still goths to this day even though I don’t keep up with it. I hope these people don’t exist as much as they did back then but I would think they would be seen as pretty lame. A desi goth is even cooler! I feel like I never see southern Asian women as person of mixed viet descent. The college town I’m from has a few Muslim girls from south east Asia who rock a lot of goth punky hijab fashions which I think looks really cute and fab if a little hot for Florida 😅. As a person whose worn a lotta black long clothing in Florida I can confirm you feel cool af but very warm and good for us protection tho! The layers make for a lotta fun textile and pattern play, they definitely focus on the silhouette which is cool ❤
I LOVE THIS SO MUCH!!!!! Beast Boy is 100% one of my favourite DC Heroes and the way you drew him is so CUTE!!!!!!!!! If suggestions are okay to give, I would LOVE to see you redesign the characters from The Owl House, it's like my favourite show ever and seeing you make your own interpretations of the main crew would mean so much to me! Keep up the amazing work Nathan! I love your content so much!!
The OG teen titans show is still my favorite show to this day. This video gave me all sorts of nostalgia, and all I want to do is rewatch. A new one with your ideas would be incredible. Like, I need DC to hit you up immediately.
These are incredible! My only thought would be that we almost always see like, linebacker Cyborg, and I would’ve loved a larger lineman style cyborg that doesn’t look like a bodybuilder. Guess I’ll have to draw it myself now that I’m attached to it 😂
I love the 2003 Teen Titans, the Young Justice animation (which has Robin, Cyborg, and Beastboy, but only Robin has a big role), and the Titans live action. I like Titans enough, but it's based on New52, so there's no Cyborg, and Dick and Kori are the group parents. And they added characters who were never TT while putting characters like Beastboy/Gar in the backseat. So I still want a modern version of the 2003 cast. So I'll always enjoy fan reboots. I love your interpretations, and I've definitely seen people argue for South Asian Raven in 2010's tumblr. Also, based on the final lineup, did you make Kori the tallest? That's rad! Also, will you be designing hero costumes for them?
I also love young justice! I talked about them in one edit of this video, but I ended up cutting it for time. I never finished watching the Titans live action show I couldn’t really get into the Hawk and Dove characters just because they weren’t in the 2003 cartoon which I know is my bias. I did make Kori the tallest! She was so tall in George/Mary’s comics I wanted to reflect that. I’m also glad that conversations about depicting Raven South Asian have been happening since 2010’s Tumblr! One of my hopes is that this video will just further put that idea in the zeitgeist that way we can hopefully see it in the future. I may draw their costumes in the future;)
@@nathanlongs yeah, I've seen people complain about Hawk and Dove providing unneeded drama/plotlines (love triangle) in Titans. Also, thanks for tall Starfire! I also liked Ray Fisher as Cyborg in the JL movie, coz he just embodied him for me. But they did him dirty. I just don't get why he has to be JL, when he could be focused on better in TT. Btw have you read the Gabriel Picolo and Kami Garcia comics and would you recommend them? From the perspective of a 2003 TT fan.
I think one reason they also changed Jinx wasn't only to just fit with the shows aesthetic but the race issue. After all this was a few years after 2001. I get it why not make another character. so yea I think Live action titans had a good idea mix both They could have just made a new character but also I think they wanted to give more characters we didn't see a chance in the light. How do you all feel
Starfire is soooooo pretty which is perfect, because I've always been into her 😂❤ I've seen some of the 2003 series, but I'm actually a Teen Titans Go Girlie 😅 When you were like "So I imagine Beast Boy as being vegan--" I was like "...That isn't canon?" 😂 I think in Teen Titans Go he's vegetarian? Or maybe vegan? I haven't seen it in a few years Ever since I saw this awesome art of Starfire as being very obviously Black-coded, I've hc'd that for her, and I LOVE the idea of Raven being half-Indian (or maybe fully? how does it work with her Dad being an Alien and her mom NOT being an Alien???)
I think that beast boy is canonically vegetarian, but I think making him vegan is a logical next step. As for Raven being half alien, I think she would match her mom. This idea comes from the Percy Jackson series where the Olympian part of your DNA doesn’t really count; because, gods don’t have DNA. So in my headcanon trigon doesn’t factor into her race. So if her mom is half Indian, then she’ll be half Indian, and if her mom is full Indian and she would be full Indian✌️
Wait Nathan drop ur rant about batman 👀👀👀 anyway, the way I’m obsessed with all of these redesigns. Totally discovered I’m a fake fan because I (a whole desi woman) had no idea raven was originally implied to be desi??? Despite my tendency to go off the deep end clutching at straws for desi representation lololol. So thank you for spreading that knowledge!!! ETA: fully forgot to answer the actual question u asked. I’m a fan of the OG 2003 series. I was heartbroken when they got brought back as teen titans go instead of an actual sequel because it was so miles away from what I wanted to see for them. And my fave is Cyborg, because I love a responsible older sibling type character, so your entire speech abt him was just me enthusiastically yelling “yeah!! YEAH!!!” In the background lolol
Don’t temp me!! Lmao Batman fans will come after me🤣🤣 I’m glad you found my video! The 2003 cliffhanger still gets to me, and YES love to see a cyborg fan✌️✨🤍
I grew up with the 2003 teen titans, so I prefer that one over GO. Though I haven't seen the newer iteration but it certainly looks appealing. BB is probably my favorite redesign, but probably only because he's been my favorite of the teen titans since I was a kid
My first TT media was the OG 2000s show. Since then though I’ve made it my mission to absorb every TT media that releases since then. My favorite Titan is actually Jericho, but in the iconic 5 it’s definitely Beast Boy.
The number of comic characters of that were modeled after and inspired by POC, but that they made white or gave white skin is surprising me. Edit: Wrote this at the beginning of the video and didn't realize there would be another one in this video. Comics really had their whitewashing gaslighting era
Gonna be honest and say i had doubts on this until you went into the history and frankly the fact that the bindi had been stareing us in the face all these years makes me feel really dumb for not realizing this.
Lmaooooo I actually love kingdom hearts! but I was more inspired by Digimon’s art when making this piece! Sometimes I wish I was courageous enough to over exaggerate the feet more, but it does ultimately depend on what art style I’m going for. There’s some thing about how in the original Digimon the characters are on a cartoon adventure, but then they talk about the real world and things get so serious like tackling issues like parents divorcing. It’s very Teen Titans vibe-y!
How do you spell the author of the book you had Raven holding? I'm Intrigued, lol Also, I LOVE redesigning classic characters (to include more minorities especially)
i ALSO redesigned the teen titans!! OMG love these. I redesigned Cyborg to have a wheelchair and other mobility aids omg i love re-imagining them more modern
Love your take on these, and damn, where's your DC podcast? This did leave me, an old and irrelevant millennial, curious... malls are dead right? Where do cool Zoomers hang out?
I've been thinking about the new Ninja Turtles Mutant Mayham. I loved the redesign if them being modern teens and not 90s teens. Teen titans being reinmagined as today's teens would be great.
To start, I love Marvel and DC equally, because I was all about the superhero cartoons in the 90's - I mean, the X-men theme always makes me giddy, and the dynamic of Mark Hammil and Kevin Conroy in the Batman cartoons can never be beat - but I'm pretty sure that, while Harley and Ivy may have hinted toward my bisexuality, Raven and Starfire confirmed it.
It is interesting that the Teen Titan, via OG show, are very diverse even though with the only one that has a normal skin tone and non-white is Cyborg, but I bet some complained about that the only black character is a cyborg with barely shown melanin mainly around his face. I think saying Raven was “whitewashed” is a bit of an overreaction since her first appearance she was depicted as white and that she was only inspired by an Indian actor not based on also given most her storyline often involve her demon half more than her human half. In fact some incarnations have her skin color be either grey (TEEN TITAN show) or really pale albino white (TEEN TITAN VS JUSTICE LEAGUE). Though out of everyone in the TT with bizarre skin like Starfire (orange) and Beast Boy (green), Raven would possible be the best one to have a darker skin tone than the other. Similarly with Dick Greyson (First Robin and Nigthwing) being Romani doesn’t really add much with his first appearance (1940), his reveal of being part Romani (1997), and the last time it was mention (2001) is too far apart to matter. I feel the perfect opportunity to reintroduce Dick’ mom Romani heritage into main continuity was the NIGHTWING (Rebirth) VOLUME 1: BETTER THAN BATMAN since the main villain for that volume was Raptor who has major ties to his mom since she was a kid, yet there was no acknowledgement what so ever. Weirdly enough Dick feel more like a Romani even before the reveal for example being much more of a free-spirit since he integrate acrobat skills into his crime fighting and that being in a member of a traveling circus gives the nomad life. Starfire, Beast Boy, and Cyborg are fine as you drew them since not much have change between them. Thank for keeping Starfire’s skin color orange then changing her black and the Barbiecore clothes is very similar to her ‘50 futuristic alien TEEN TITAN (TT) clothes better than her overly sexy look from her early comic book run and especially the RED HOOD AND THE OUTLAW run too. Keeping Cyborg’s design close to his TT version with his multicolor armor versus his all silver armor because it match well with Starfire’s ‘50 inspire cloth, and you are right about his contribution on the Justice League is very limited compare to the TT which SARCASTIC CHORUS did a small like-warm take about it. Beast Boy is basically fine since nothing much change from his comic book and adaptions variants.
I didn’t know anything about Ravens origins, I’m not shocked that teen titans whitewashed Raven considering they do that with Starfire all the time 🙄 Love these designs 💕💕💕
But no! No! Cyborg could also have like a little angst on is he human because of AI and are his memories even real or is he just a machine but he is more than a machine and ahhhh it could be so cool!!
Ty for shining light on this Ravens treatment by white writers and artists has been triggering me for years That and dick Grayson's romani heritage being whitewashed and every other racist things in comics that's hypernormalised
Amazing artwork! Honestly, in terms of ethnicity- I never considered Raven or Starfire to be really anything specific. I mean, Starfire isn't even human so its kinda pointless. Beatboy was obviously white to me, Cborg was African-American but Robin was a bit more fluid {the comics have had many interesting and different avenues on this} could be white or mixed with Romani and/or South/East Asian- though for the for the 2003 animated version he was just white to me. Raven is interesting example. First off, she's only half human. Yes, she was based aesthesically off an Indian actress but I don't think characters based off certain individuals of a different culture or ethncity are nessicarily are the same ethnicity of that inspiration. This is especially true for non-human characters or characters in alternate fantasy worlds. I think it's intriguing that many different people have different interpretations of these characters. At theh end of the day, it doesn't matter what race they or were meant to be, I think it's far more itneresting is how we interpret them and identify with them IRL. I tend to view ficitonal characters as tools for introspective examination of ourselves and others.
i think while there's definitely *passages* of Raven being depicted with very much indian features, and Perez claiming he had used the likeness of Indian actress Persis Khambatta, there is, overall, no comic that depicts Raven as an indian woman, not *really*. It might be faulty coloration with these old comics (and it's definitely pretty white-washed in the reprints you get to buy nowadays), but she just doesn't come across as that indian, to me. Like, i think Wolfman and Perez wanted their cake (in getting to design some sort of "eXoTiC" character) and eat it too (in not having to tackle any racial or cultural implications). Hence, throw some saris and a bindi on otherwise not that PoC features. That being said, i *love* reading her as non-white, Raven's interpretation in TT: Year One as a native-american woman is beautiful, and putting her into old asian tradition is pretty fitting if you accept how multi-religious India is: You can definitely read the struggle of pure good Azar against pure evil Trigon in a Zoroastrian sense, no New Age nonsense needed. Anyways, i like your interpretation a lot, there are not a lot of PoC goth girls in media (even though a lot of hardcore New Teen Titans fans will fight us on the goth thing lol), we *need* her. Thanks for drawing big hair Kori, she just isn't the same in the 2003 cartoon. Ah damn it i just love these girls so much! Good work on the boys as well, hell yeah it's so cool to see these folks with their diverse backgrounds in mind!
I ADORE Teen Titans Year One! I completely love the Native American depiction of Raven, it also had a lot of Jericho in it too! (I long for more heroic and less villainous Jericho, but I’ll take what I can get lol) I loved this comment!! this is very long but it’s mostly me being a nerd, sorry if this is totally boring😅 Indian people have a variety of skin tones! Hence why I say "light-skinned Indian woman" in the beginning of the video. I also said something like "at least that’s what my eyes see," to acknowledge that was my subjective experience when I read to comic. Your reading experience is also valid! There’s the concept of queer-coded characters, Who aren’t directly stated as queer, but have traits and subtext that can be read as queer. I’ve seen a similar case made for POC coded characters in fantasy series. There is no such thing as "Native American" in a high fantasy world like Critical Role’s Exandria, yet the case can be made that Veth’s dark skin, style of hair, and dress are Native-American-Coded, even as a halfling. In the case of Raven, she’s in a world that’s basically our world (with superheroes, Yes, but our world none the less) at an American college. So it’s hard to tell what’s code and what’s visual canon confirmation. George and Marv also have stated that they originally intended for Jericho to be gay, but then second-guessed that decision as well. Only to have him eventually come out using sign language in DC’s Convergence event in June of 2015. My read (and this is only my opinion I could 100% be very wrong) is that they wanted the group to be more diverse than the era (and possibly editorial) would allow. Raven is such an enigma because she becomes more white as her story progresses. Her real name is Raven, she canonically had no last name being from Azarath, but as the 2003 show grew in popularity she goes to high school and adopts the fake name Rachel Roth, which is explicitly a fake name. Later in the comics and in the Titans live-action show, suddenly she was BORN Rachel Roth and then adopted the name Raven. I guess my closing thought is that I hate how Raven goes from at-most depicted explicitly as a light-skinned Indian Woman and at-least depicted as a racially ambiguous character who is Indian coded, To then being depicted unambiguous as white and catholic. Thank you for the lovely comment! It’s fun having people to talk to about stuff like this. I also love big hair Starfire. The girls dynamic is my fav in the show and I desperately need more of it all the time!!
@@nathanlongs Thanks for the deliberation on Raven's development, absolutely agree. Personally, i also always read Raven as a queer character, with like, her hidden side she is afraid of and she has to deal with, her not necessarily passing as human... and i really dislike how Raven is very much canonically heterosexual now (with Beast Boy, of course, which is not the *worst* but... come on, this is the future, we don't need more of *this*). i feel like, in general, we kinda need to steal these poor characters away from their copyright holders and make them *ours*, haha. Definitely an unfortunate development. One of my favorite episodes of the 2003 cartoon remains "Switched", to this day. These very different girls playing off each other, rescuing the boys... they're both so strong in such different ways and baby me absorbed it like a sponge.
@@nartebear Hi! This is incorrect, Raven was drawn racially ambiguous but coded as South Asian. As stated in the video she was modeled off Persis Khambatta, an Indian actress she was later redesigned off Fran Macgregor, a white dancer. Overtime the character has been distanced from her original design. I will agree the term "white-washing" is being used liberally here. Most of the time, when we talk about whitewashing, it’s in the context of an already established person-of-color being portrayed as white. In this case, Raven was racially ambiguous, but coded as Indian and the progression of her becoming a white Catholic-raised character represents the transition from an ambiguous racial "other" to deliberatlely white. The character had the potential to go from being ambiguously Indian to deliberately Indian however she was taken in a different direction. If this comment is in regard to her skin tone, I stated in the video that she was represented as a light skinned Indian woman, as there are a variety of skin tones in South Asia. Also, The character still wears a bindi to this day! Also, as I said in the video, it’s OK to like the white version of Raven! One of my favorite depictions of Raven was in an elseworld story where she was native American and there was no canon justification for this, the story was just really cool! I also ADORE the animated Teen Titan’s version. The great thing about these characters is that they’ve been depicted in many different ways by different artists and authors and I think that’s wonderful. The history of Raven is interesting, and although I think it would be cool to see the character portrayed as Desi, that’s just my opinion! I don’t want to take away anyone else’s version. Just add another🤍✨ Hope you have a great day!
@@nathanlongs I have no problem with the depiction of her as indian, but the title of your video was quite misleading as while she may have originally been designed with indian features in mind, she appeared indiscernible from all of the other caucasian characters in DC. I think your redesign does look great tho!
I don't know why you removed raven's purple palette, it's iconic + symbolic. beast boy already has green, together the team is purple, green, orange, blue, and red. also why do so few people acknowledge beast boy's character arc? he's not just the comic relief, he has a whole arc about wanting to be taken seriously. he literally never fits in, being green forces him to stand out and look different. his personality is comedic because he'd rather be a joke than a freak. it's pretty tragic, i recommend giving the cartoon a rewatch. I'm not trying to be mean or anything, i'm just being critical (and i'm bad at sounding polite :v) and my favorites are starfire and cyborg. i relate to cyborg, being a "freak" for reasons outside of his control (the scene with the kid with the prosthetic made me tear up recently), and i just love starfire's positive personality and colorful design. i'm a sucker for mod-style clothing. it sucks the show was cancelled before her season arc.
I zoned out a bit, so when the whole talk about cyborg came up about "time out in the space station, and arc revolving around Father", I thought Nathan was talking about the Umbrella Academy, which - thinking back on it - is kinda similar to Teen Titans
intrestingly there is a teen titans comic titled "teen titan earth one" depicts raven as navajo! i do not know if it is a respectful depiction (it was written by a white man so take it with a grain of salt), but it was interesting take on raven either way!
While not a Titan (outside the last few episodes of of series), one character I found when going threw the comics that they completely white washed is Jinx. Though maybe that was completely on purpose to not depict an Indian woman as a villain in the cartoon.
I always liked Raven because of the goth aesthetic and how edgy she was 😅 Still love her, but I think I grew to enjoy the rest of the crew more over the years ❤
Raven is white. At least on her mother’s side. In the og comic Trigon assumed a human form at first to trick Raven’s mom into doing the nasty. The form he took very well could have been that of an Indian man, which carried over to raven. As for the Indian style garb, I know Raven grew up in a place called Azeroth, the clothing there may have been Indian inspired for their made up culture. Still it would make sense for raven to keep dressing that way after she left Azeroth, since that style and aesthetic was what she grew up with. TLDR: Interdimensional woman vibes w/Indian/desi culture, because it’s super similar to where she grew up maybe.
I find it really funny is that it is canon that Nightwing is richer than Bruce, but in the comics hes ALWAYS forgetting he's rich and just being shocked when he realizes 'oh shit I can buy more than 1 slice of pizza!!'
Im also so glad you talked about Raven having Desi origins because no one ever mentions it😭
Thank you! Omg that’s such a funny depiction of Dick, I love it!
People who will cry about “being faithful to the original” when we have more black/fem/queer characters will totally ignore it when actual OGs were diverse
It was on the path to diversity but of course they couldn't fully commit and make her not look white still.
It’s sad, but true, haters are always gonna hate. I just think it’s really interesting when a white guy like Nathan Fillion gets cast as Guy Gardner, and all the people who complained about Halle Bailey not being a natural redhead were very silent that day.
@@nathanlongsI don't think most of them are haters. Some of them just don't about this stuff. Not even I knew about this before the video. But people are going to hate!
@@juliemesser2053 that’s a good point Julie! It is easy to be cynical, but I’m sure some people are just ignorant to the fact
@@juliemesser2053 The thing is, that excuse would work....if they didn't speak on things like they actually knew what they were talking about. They always act like they know exactly what they are talking about and it emboldens them to be childish.
THANK YOU for making Cyborg's robot bits being blue, im so tired of the boring flat grey look, the cartoon design was just superior
I COMPLETELY AGREE, the flat grey isn’t as visually interesting imo
I never knew that Raven had Desi origins, but she’s definitely never read as white to me until being portrayed by a white actress in the live action show. Maybe because I’m a multiracial person of color, so I just saw what I wanted to see, but I loved Teen Titans specifically because of I saw them as being diverse. Watching different iterations of them, Robin was the only one that I thought was white. To me, Beast Boy read as Latino, Starfire read as Biracial, and Raven read as racially ambiguous but more leaning towards POC. I also enjoyed Raven’s goth aesthetic being portrayed via a POC lense because the aesthetic is not tied to race, anyone can be goth.
I enjoyed feeling like many cultures were represented in Teen Titans because so often in media when attempts are made to show inclusivity/diversity, there are still more white characters over POC characters and representation matters. I’m not saying that each friend group has to have a representative from every race 😂 but that’s just how I saw the Teen Titans and it worked well in my head cannon.
That all being said, I love your portrayal of them here. The live action show let me down a bit. I enjoyed the grit of it, but I would have liked if the show portrayed them more like you did here, bring the teens into modern day but keep them as teens not young adults.
All of my friends that I’ve talked to about this have a similar experience! I think Raven being so white in the live-action show just had her feeling off the whole time. Especially with beast boy and raven being very racially ambiguous in the cartoon. A LOT of people interpret them both as people of color, and I think it adds to their characters when we have that interpretation; I would like to see more of it! I’m so glad you liked my redesigns🤍🤍🤍 Reading your comment was so nice because it was so thoughtful, I loved hearing about your experience watching/interpreting the show. Maybe we’ll get a more diverse run on the characters soon!🤞🤞
@@nathanlongs Thanks Nathan. I love that your art is always diverse and you have such a beautiful viewpoint as an artist!
I ALSO read Beast Boy as Latino!! ❤
Oh yeah, Beast Boy definitely reads as Latino, while Koriand'r... I flip between her reading as Irish or Caribbean depending on the artist, so biracial gels there too.
@@washipuppy Kori actually mostly based off Red Sonja expect the hair
The big thing I think with Dick being Romani is that it's great that he is Romani, the writer who made that choice did it to "exoticize" and further sexualize him.
It would be great to see an actual Romani writer get a chance to fix that aspect and make it better.
If anyone has DC on speed dial tell them to hit up Florian✌️🤞🤞
couldn't have said it better myself. the author who chose to make him romani was a _nightmare_ who used it exclusively to objectify and degrade him. she didn't just make him a person of color, she made him a person of color who was "controlled by touch" and who lost all of his decades of history around being an intelligent and compassionate leader, for the sake of horny nonsense. and she used it to batman say slurs. i didn't like it!
i do hope someone comes along and does romani dick justice but it always feels like its used to degrade him or not brought up at all. (similar things could be said about damian.)
Interesting, I alway saw Raven as indian, in the TV show she isn’t caucasian “white”, she’s literally white (or more of a gray imo), so I thought that was a goth thing or an alien/magic thing and not a reflection of her race.
I think a lot of people had this experience! Thanks for sharing🤍
@@nathanlongs made that comment before I finished the video. Great designs as always, and really good commentary.
@@JaretOnTH-cam no worries! Thanks for watching🤍✨
Hey Hi Hello I'm South Asian, specifically Sri Lankan, and I just wanted to express that the Raven design made me so so so happy!!! I love the way the saree was draped and the pattern you used, and I love her hair texture and how deep her skin color is!!!
THANK YOU!! This comment made me grin ear to ear🤍🤍🤍, I’m so happy you liked the design. She really was the inspiration for the entire video✨ thank you for watching !
This video made me think of a scenario where someone points at Robin and says "nepo baby!" and Robin's like "I'm not a nepo baby" and all the teen titans are like "yes you are" and that's just so funny to me
Yeeeeessssss! Love this
The beastboy segment was a real mood. I really liked the redesigns and how you talked about diversity without making the video too heavy. Its inspirational, informative and inspiring. Really great to learn all this stuff and everyone rocked their outfits. :D
Yes! I love the idea of Cyborg as a JL member, but DC had NO idea what to do with him after they did it! Drove me nuts!
I personally came up with a potential story line about him being taken back to new genesis (Because of the mother box in his new origin) and becoming one of the new gods...
I wish I had the patience to write/draw it
Oh my gosh, that sounds so cool! If you ever write or draw it as fanfiction definitely comment down below with the link! Cyborg hanging out with big Barda and Orion and Mr. miracle is really funny/cool to me.
You bringing up Kori in Barbiecore REALLY made me imagine Chrissy Chlapecka as Starfire in a show and I need it.
You’re welcome lmao!
This was actually really touching ;; I'm half Indian and when I first saw those original designs of Raven I went down the same rabbit hole! But when i tried to look for fanart I couldn't find anything which was sad, but now youve done it! I feel weird about putting my emotions out but this was very heartwarming and means a lot to me 😊
And hopefully this will inspire more desi Raven art 😁
I’m so glad the video was validating! Thanks for sharing🤍✨
I adore your representations of these characters. I think Starfire is also my fave from the Teen Titans show. I love how she is so sweet but also so incredibly powerful.
SHE IS SO POWERFUL. She’s like the Superman of the group! She’s the mitochondria of the cell! I love that the heaviest hitter of the group can also be so kind and gentle. It’s such a great dichotomy.
Love these designs!! I also love how much you love Cyborg, it's genuinely very sweet to see how passionate you are haha 😊
He’s just so COOL, and as former very uncool teenager I would have loved to have a friend like Cy! He had some of my favorite moments in the show (him infiltrating the Hive, the "Troq" episode, titans east, ext) so I always want to read more of him.
Love these redesigns, Beast Boy was always my favorite cause I liked his powers the most. At least until the end when Raven gets the scary cool red tattoos. I think I like your version of BB the most, but they all are so good!
Thank you, I love beast boy too! It was really fun giving him big-wild hair when redesigning him!
These were some pretty solid redesigns, I liked how you harkened back to the original designs while seeing what they'd look like if made today. I will say, I never knew that about Raven and her design origins, I suppose I shouldn't be surprised though. My favorite era of the Titans on TV has to be the original show from 2003, it certainly made Cyborg my favorite member of the team. I just love how Cyborg, despite all the terrible things that have happened to him, is always trying to keep upbeat, to live his life and to be more than just a machine. Now I kinda really want to see what you'd do with DC's Global Guardians, though, as crazy as that sounds
Omg global guardians is such a deep cut! I do love obscure dc lore/teams I’ll have to give them a read, thanks for the rec!
@@nathanlongs Yeah, they are a really deep cut of some of DC's most mistreated heroes. I do gotta say that they do still have one of the most amazing concepts for a team. However, their appearance in the Super-Friends book is pretty fun. The potential is there, just waiting to be seized upon, at least to me
Nathan!!! These designs are all so fun!! That final piece is *chef's kiss* I love the perspective
Thank you! It was SO HARD but very rewarding🤍✨
14:23 "hes a football player so i just made him really hot and really muscular and hes a jock what do you want from me?" thats a karina core answer If Ive ever hear of one
The Beast Boy slander TToTT I always loved BB and his plant-based, transmasc, unmedicated ADHD vibes.
I thought you gave Robin the keys because he's the Friend with a Car (because daddy is rich), but the motorcycle is so Correct, excellent job.
OMG Dick would also have a car lmaoooo. I love everything you’ve said on Beast Boy! So funny, such a riot, deserves all the love.
ohhh my good they look so amazing! i love your ideas of them as gen z teens, and the modern issues theyd have to deal with. i would read that in a heartbeat omg
this video is an absolute gem?? i had no clue that raven was originally indian, even though she was always my favourite. seriously though, you're so well-spoken and the art is brilliant, this is so underrated!!!
Thank you so much! I try my best!!
Starfire was always my favorite too!! And I love your design of Desi Raven, you absolutely killed it with this one Nathan ❤
I think the sort of background conversation about Raven's origins makes logical sense but it probably best to get a sense from Indian comic-reading populations regarding how they feel about the issue. But beyond that, I absolutely love these reinterpretations
Agreed! Thanks for the perspective🤍✨
I wrote a longer comment but as a half Indian person I loved this, unlike romani Dick there's not as much fanart or fanfics so I was overjoyed that Nathan did this 😊
@@pomegranateghost you’re welcome! Hopefully more South Asian Raven Fan art/fics come from this video🤍✨
Nathan I love your diversity of redesigns! So inspiring!!! Please keep making amazing videos and art!!!
Thank you LuckParadox!!!!!! I don’t know if anyone else finds this stuff interesting but I get a kick out of it, thank you for watching and supporting🤍🤍🤍
good to hear you mention Florian!! he was the first channel i went to when i found out about my Romani heritage, so he means alot. uh like grayson i'm romani on my mum's side (unlike him it's like one 5th). ALSO ALSO these designs rock, as always!
That’s so cool to hear!! Florian’s vids are so nice, I love a good fun/educational post!
This was amazing! I always love seeing the Titans I grew up with! Personally my favorite depiction (outside of the comics) is definitely the 2003 series. I would love to see what your redesign of the Young Justice Core Four would look like (Tim Drake, Bart Allen, Cassie Sandsmark and Kon-El)! I also think a redesign of the original Titans would be amazing! Love your art!
Thanks! Cassie would be fun to redesign just because I love her Wonder Woman lore. I don’t know if I could do better than 90s Superboy if I’m being honest! Thanks for the lovely comment🤍
I mean ultimately maybe the best thing is making her mixed.
Given the fact original she was modeled after two women. After all despite rejecting being Indian but Arzthaian. A good way is mixed
Absolutely incredible artwork!! 🤩! I love the commentary voice-over, you're so hilarious
Thank you! This comment was so nice, thanks for the smile🤍✨
Great redesigns! My fav is Beast Boy; my favorite era of TT is the late 90s and early 2000s runs where the original Titans were growing up and moving on, and the core four Young Justice kids came in as the next generation. Really loved Gar during that period.
Also, my soul shriveled up and wept a little when you were trying to figure out what generation the Wolfman + Perez team was. They're early Gen X, truly the most forgotten generation T_T (love, a an elder millenial who prefers identifying as part of the Gen Y micro-generation for reasons)
These redesigns are gorgeous. Also im so here for that cyborg rant ! We need more Cyborg Appreciation!!!!!! Let him do things lol
YES! He doesn’t get enough flowers, thank you for appreciating him with me😭😭
i love these redesigns so much and the final illustration turned out beautiful!! im always amazed by your colors and composition work, plus you nailed that perspective 💖
Thank you! It was really wonky but I figured it out eventually haha!
Seeing as being a vegetarian is already canon for BB, it’s not hard to imagine he would go vegan. I love these designs so much! You did an amazing job! I’m definitely a 2003 girly, I had the biggest crush on BB at the time lol.
It’s hard not to have a crush on beast boy, I loved his arc with Tara. It brings me such joy.
When I was younger I never thought most of the teen titans were white. Here where my headcanons though they aren't actually what I think now. I don't know what made me assume these types of things i was 3 to 6 when it aired so i legit didn’t even know all these words and more so had a vauge image/idea in my head
Raven: Turkish/Romani/Armenian
Starfire: Latina
Dick Grayson: White
Cyborg: Black
Beast Boy: Indigenous
Omg love a headcanon, thanks for sharing your childhood thoughts!
Love this video! My first exposure to the titans was probably Teen Titans Go and even though it’s not liked by everyone I was always drawn to the characters as a group. Their designs and personalities are all so distinct but really appealing I think. I was interested to hear about the diversity in their backstories too. I hope future iterations take that all into account.
It was easy to punch down on teen titans go when it first came out, but it’s such a fun show! It’s so indulgent in the lore of DC and it’s so hilarious!! And their designs are v cute. Thank you for sharing🤍✨
@@nathanlongsOf course! You’ve sort of inspired me to redesign them myself :)
@@Jayjee762 go for it!
This video gives me LIFE, there absolutely needs to be much more poc rep.
Hard agree!
Raven was my favourite Teen Titan when I was a kid and a teen, and she still is. x)
I also love Raven! The trigon arc is so iconic
@@nathanlongs Daddy dearest...
I like all of your designs for them! I giggled and went "Karina-core" when you said "I made him hot, what do you want from me?!".
I love Raven's design here!
Raven and Beastboy were probably my favorites when I watched the 2003 cartoon series, but I have mixed feelings about Raven now.
Not that she's done anything wrong. I just enjoy drawing ravens and other corvids, and Raven (character) is hard to filter out when I'm looking for images or information about raven (birb). But that's not the character's fault 😅
I completely understand this, it’s always so frustrating when you’re trying to search one thing and something else with the same name comes up!
I love Teen Titans 2003, I loved how Raven looked as well as Blackfire , I loved their designs, and I loved the way you redesigned the characters how you drew Raven and Starfire as their proper depictions from in the comics , which that is doing those characters a lot of justice , and your avatar looks cute
Disclaimer: I am white. But I like the idea of Jinx being POC and albino. I feel like part of being inclusive is letting everyone have weird origin stories that do things like change their skin color or give them animal limbs. "They're this race so their skin is this color" is just putting them in another box. That's why I'm partial to Raven's grey skin from the 2003 Titans.
Thanks for sharing! I often ponder about using natural vs using stylized colors for poc. Anime characters can have any number of unnatural eye/hair colors, yet they’re race/ethnicity doesn’t depend on it. But we do lack adequate representation for people of color in media overall. I think the answer is to have both! The most important thing is to get the numbers up. If all the poc characters are stylized that’s an issue with colorism, but we also shouldn’t limit poc creators into having to always use prescriptive naturalistic colors, they deserve the same amount of creative freedom that white creators have had for generations! I think it’s important to have artistic expression, while being mindful of anti-racism/anti-colorism when making art.
That was so long-winded, that’s just my opinion. Thank you for sparking such an interesting conversation! I love 2003 Raven too. I’m happy she’s sort of getting a second chance of life with teen titans go and also the Raven graphic novel by Gabriel piccolo.
@@nathanlongsThanks for replying! I feel the same way. Moderation in all things is the best. I'm just so trope averse I wind up also noticing & hating anti-tropes, if that makes sense. 😅
Thanks for your great work! If it weren't for this video I never would have known Dick Greyson is Romani.
wow this video was so well thought out and i loved all the effort and time that went into it, thank you again for another great video
U r welcome🤍✨
Kami Garcia's Teen Titans books are set today and they're phenomenal
100% agree Gabriel Picolo’s art is so great too!
You are freaking amazing. Much respect to you.
Thanks Steve!
Beast boy has been vegan since forever, so you nailed it!
Thank you! I thought he was the only vegetarian it’s nice to know✨✌️
Honestly people of colour used to be under represented in goth culture and I love seeing them on insta all the time! I love I’ve seen some more goth poc in mainstream media, It is their time to shine ✨ my mom as an OG goth of the 80s used to tell my friends of color that it’s music movement and didn’t fucking matter what people told them because some goths used to say it “just didn’t look right on darker skin” which is stupid. Having a “cool” elder in your subculture defend you sometimes helps and those friends are actually still goths to this day even though I don’t keep up with it. I hope these people don’t exist as much as they did back then but I would think they would be seen as pretty lame. A desi goth is even cooler! I feel like I never see southern Asian women as person of mixed viet descent. The college town I’m from has a few Muslim girls from south east Asia who rock a lot of goth punky hijab fashions which I think looks really cute and fab if a little hot for Florida 😅. As a person whose worn a lotta black long clothing in Florida I can confirm you feel cool af but very warm and good for us protection tho! The layers make for a lotta fun textile and pattern play, they definitely focus on the silhouette which is cool ❤
I LOVE THIS SO MUCH!!!!! Beast Boy is 100% one of my favourite DC Heroes and the way you drew him is so CUTE!!!!!!!!! If suggestions are okay to give, I would LOVE to see you redesign the characters from The Owl House, it's like my favourite show ever and seeing you make your own interpretations of the main crew would mean so much to me!
Keep up the amazing work Nathan! I love your content so much!!
Oh my gosh, redesigning the owl House would be so fun, I love witches so much aaaaaaaa! Thank you for the sweet comment🤍
The OG teen titans show is still my favorite show to this day. This video gave me all sorts of nostalgia, and all I want to do is rewatch. A new one with your ideas would be incredible. Like, I need DC to hit you up immediately.
I would literally swoon and faint to ever get the chance at doing anything with these characters in a canon capacity
Because of the thumbnail my expectations were going somewhere else but I am pleasantly surprised isn't wasn't what I expected
I love all your designs!
These are incredible! My only thought would be that we almost always see like, linebacker Cyborg, and I would’ve loved a larger lineman style cyborg that doesn’t look like a bodybuilder. Guess I’ll have to draw it myself now that I’m attached to it 😂
Do it!! I’d love to see it!
I love the 2003 Teen Titans, the Young Justice animation (which has Robin, Cyborg, and Beastboy, but only Robin has a big role), and the Titans live action. I like Titans enough, but it's based on New52, so there's no Cyborg, and Dick and Kori are the group parents. And they added characters who were never TT while putting characters like Beastboy/Gar in the backseat.
So I still want a modern version of the 2003 cast. So I'll always enjoy fan reboots. I love your interpretations, and I've definitely seen people argue for South Asian Raven in 2010's tumblr. Also, based on the final lineup, did you make Kori the tallest? That's rad! Also, will you be designing hero costumes for them?
I also love young justice! I talked about them in one edit of this video, but I ended up cutting it for time. I never finished watching the Titans live action show I couldn’t really get into the Hawk and Dove characters just because they weren’t in the 2003 cartoon which I know is my bias. I did make Kori the tallest! She was so tall in George/Mary’s comics I wanted to reflect that. I’m also glad that conversations about depicting Raven South Asian have been happening since 2010’s Tumblr! One of my hopes is that this video will just further put that idea in the zeitgeist that way we can hopefully see it in the future.
I may draw their costumes in the future;)
@@nathanlongs yeah, I've seen people complain about Hawk and Dove providing unneeded drama/plotlines (love triangle) in Titans. Also, thanks for tall Starfire!
I also liked Ray Fisher as Cyborg in the JL movie, coz he just embodied him for me. But they did him dirty. I just don't get why he has to be JL, when he could be focused on better in TT.
Btw have you read the Gabriel Picolo and Kami Garcia comics and would you recommend them? From the perspective of a 2003 TT fan.
I only watched Teen Titans (2003) I rewatched in a year or so ago and it was so amazing. Raven or Starfire was always my favorites.
I also love the girlies! The episode when they switch bodies is one of my favorites🤍✨
@@nathanlongs Yes that was a really fun episode!
I think one reason they also changed Jinx wasn't only to just fit with the shows aesthetic but the race issue. After all this was a few years after 2001. I get it why not make another character. so yea I think Live action titans had a good idea mix both
They could have just made a new character but also I think they wanted to give more characters we didn't see a chance in the light. How do you all feel
Starfire is soooooo pretty which is perfect, because I've always been into her 😂❤
I've seen some of the 2003 series, but I'm actually a Teen Titans Go Girlie 😅 When you were like "So I imagine Beast Boy as being vegan--" I was like "...That isn't canon?" 😂
I think in Teen Titans Go he's vegetarian? Or maybe vegan? I haven't seen it in a few years
Ever since I saw this awesome art of Starfire as being very obviously Black-coded, I've hc'd that for her, and I LOVE the idea of Raven being half-Indian (or maybe fully? how does it work with her Dad being an Alien and her mom NOT being an Alien???)
I think that beast boy is canonically vegetarian, but I think making him vegan is a logical next step. As for Raven being half alien, I think she would match her mom. This idea comes from the Percy Jackson series where the Olympian part of your DNA doesn’t really count; because, gods don’t have DNA. So in my headcanon trigon doesn’t factor into her race. So if her mom is half Indian, then she’ll be half Indian, and if her mom is full Indian and she would be full Indian✌️
Wait Nathan drop ur rant about batman 👀👀👀 anyway, the way I’m obsessed with all of these redesigns. Totally discovered I’m a fake fan because I (a whole desi woman) had no idea raven was originally implied to be desi??? Despite my tendency to go off the deep end clutching at straws for desi representation lololol. So thank you for spreading that knowledge!!!
ETA: fully forgot to answer the actual question u asked. I’m a fan of the OG 2003 series. I was heartbroken when they got brought back as teen titans go instead of an actual sequel because it was so miles away from what I wanted to see for them. And my fave is Cyborg, because I love a responsible older sibling type character, so your entire speech abt him was just me enthusiastically yelling “yeah!! YEAH!!!” In the background lolol
Don’t temp me!! Lmao Batman fans will come after me🤣🤣 I’m glad you found my video!
The 2003 cliffhanger still gets to me, and YES love to see a cyborg fan✌️✨🤍
I grew up with the 2003 teen titans, so I prefer that one over GO. Though I haven't seen the newer iteration but it certainly looks appealing.
BB is probably my favorite redesign, but probably only because he's been my favorite of the teen titans since I was a kid
Good choice! I love beast boy, he’s such a funny lil guy
Oh my god, can you do a CyberChase redesign! does that already exist! I NEED IT
My first TT media was the OG 2000s show. Since then though I’ve made it my mission to absorb every TT media that releases since then. My favorite Titan is actually Jericho, but in the iconic 5 it’s definitely Beast Boy.
The number of comic characters of that were modeled after and inspired by POC, but that they made white or gave white skin is surprising me.
Edit: Wrote this at the beginning of the video and didn't realize there would be another one in this video. Comics really had their whitewashing gaslighting era
So true!
This video deserves so much more love, it's amazing
Thanks Dicegoblin!
This entire video is such a perfect confluence of my special interests!!!!
Happy to oblige!
Gonna be honest and say i had doubts on this until you went into the history and frankly the fact that the bindi had been stareing us in the face all these years makes me feel really dumb for not realizing this.
YES! and she STILL wears a bindi to this day! This is an excellent point I should have stressed more in the video. Thank you!
you got a case of the Kingdom heart 16+ shoe size.
Lmaooooo I actually love kingdom hearts! but I was more inspired by Digimon’s art when making this piece! Sometimes I wish I was courageous enough to over exaggerate the feet more, but it does ultimately depend on what art style I’m going for. There’s some thing about how in the original Digimon the characters are on a cartoon adventure, but then they talk about the real world and things get so serious like tackling issues like parents divorcing. It’s very Teen Titans vibe-y!
16:40 I love how you turn into lumpy space princess when you get passionate
It’s my true form.
How do you spell the author of the book you had Raven holding? I'm Intrigued, lol
Also, I LOVE redesigning classic characters (to include more minorities especially)
George Perez and Marv Wolfman!
@@nathanlongsthank you!!!
I loved all the redesigns!!! I also I didn't watch or read Teen Titans 😅I think my favorite redesign was Starfire, she's so adorable!
WHO LET THEM COOK, 0 STARS NEVER ORDERING AGAIN
Lmaooooo, they cooked but made her whiter over time, like the opposite of seasoning the food😂
@@nathanlongs they made her grey???
i ALSO redesigned the teen titans!! OMG love these. I redesigned Cyborg to have a wheelchair and other mobility aids omg i love re-imagining them more modern
That’s so cool! I love reimaginings, wheelchair Cy is a really interesting idea!
Love your take on these, and damn, where's your DC podcast? This did leave me, an old and irrelevant millennial, curious... malls are dead right? Where do cool Zoomers hang out?
Omg a dc podcast would be fun! Gen Z mostly just hang out online. I’m sure some still go to malls but the culture has shifted away from it.
I've only watched the live action and some of the animated movies, but I definitely want more so might go watch the animated shows!
Your Starfire kind of has some Bayonetta like proportions.
She is extremely tall yes
I've been thinking about the new Ninja Turtles Mutant Mayham. I loved the redesign if them being modern teens and not 90s teens. Teen titans being reinmagined as today's teens would be great.
To start, I love Marvel and DC equally, because I was all about the superhero cartoons in the 90's - I mean, the X-men theme always makes me giddy, and the dynamic of Mark Hammil and Kevin Conroy in the Batman cartoons can never be beat - but I'm pretty sure that, while Harley and Ivy may have hinted toward my bisexuality, Raven and Starfire confirmed it.
“I just really like Cyborg” came out VERY Karina 😂
Oh no I have been perceived!!😉😂😂
It is interesting that the Teen Titan, via OG show, are very diverse even though with the only one that has a normal skin tone and non-white is Cyborg, but I bet some complained about that the only black character is a cyborg with barely shown melanin mainly around his face.
I think saying Raven was “whitewashed” is a bit of an overreaction since her first appearance she was depicted as white and that she was only inspired by an Indian actor not based on also given most her storyline often involve her demon half more than her human half. In fact some incarnations have her skin color be either grey (TEEN TITAN show) or really pale albino white (TEEN TITAN VS JUSTICE LEAGUE). Though out of everyone in the TT with bizarre skin like Starfire (orange) and Beast Boy (green), Raven would possible be the best one to have a darker skin tone than the other.
Similarly with Dick Greyson (First Robin and Nigthwing) being Romani doesn’t really add much with his first appearance (1940), his reveal of being part Romani (1997), and the last time it was mention (2001) is too far apart to matter. I feel the perfect opportunity to reintroduce Dick’ mom Romani heritage into main continuity was the NIGHTWING (Rebirth) VOLUME 1: BETTER THAN BATMAN since the main villain for that volume was Raptor who has major ties to his mom since she was a kid, yet there was no acknowledgement what so ever. Weirdly enough Dick feel more like a Romani even before the reveal for example being much more of a free-spirit since he integrate acrobat skills into his crime fighting and that being in a member of a traveling circus gives the nomad life.
Starfire, Beast Boy, and Cyborg are fine as you drew them since not much have change between them. Thank for keeping Starfire’s skin color orange then changing her black and the Barbiecore clothes is very similar to her ‘50 futuristic alien TEEN TITAN (TT) clothes better than her overly sexy look from her early comic book run and especially the RED HOOD AND THE OUTLAW run too. Keeping Cyborg’s design close to his TT version with his multicolor armor versus his all silver armor because it match well with Starfire’s ‘50 inspire cloth, and you are right about his contribution on the Justice League is very limited compare to the TT which SARCASTIC CHORUS did a small like-warm take about it. Beast Boy is basically fine since nothing much change from his comic book and adaptions variants.
I didn’t know anything about Ravens origins, I’m not shocked that teen titans whitewashed Raven considering they do that with Starfire all the time 🙄 Love these designs 💕💕💕
This Beast Boy is sending me good lort
You’re welcome! Enjoy✨🤍
But no! No! Cyborg could also have like a little angst on is he human because of AI and are his memories even real or is he just a machine but he is more than a machine and ahhhh it could be so cool!!
Ok maybe a lil angst… for fun;)
@@nathanlongs Just a little angst...as a treat. It has to be surrounded by him having fun and doing cool stuff though otherwise it's just upsetting
I love Teen Titans 2003, my favourite character is Starfire and I headcannon Beastboy is Latino.
Ty for shining light on this
Ravens treatment by white writers and artists has been triggering me for years
That and dick Grayson's romani heritage being whitewashed
and every other racist things in comics that's hypernormalised
I think in some ways there's a discussion worth having about how certain comic characters become "white washed" over time.
Amazing artwork!
Honestly, in terms of ethnicity- I never considered Raven or Starfire to be really anything specific. I mean, Starfire isn't even human so its kinda pointless. Beatboy was obviously white to me, Cborg was African-American but Robin was a bit more fluid {the comics have had many interesting and different avenues on this} could be white or mixed with Romani and/or South/East Asian- though for the for the 2003 animated version he was just white to me.
Raven is interesting example. First off, she's only half human. Yes, she was based aesthesically off an Indian actress but I don't think characters based off certain individuals of a different culture or ethncity are nessicarily are the same ethnicity of that inspiration. This is especially true for non-human characters or characters in alternate fantasy worlds.
I think it's intriguing that many different people have different interpretations of these characters. At theh end of the day, it doesn't matter what race they or were meant to be, I think it's far more itneresting is how we interpret them and identify with them IRL. I tend to view ficitonal characters as tools for introspective examination of ourselves and others.
TT 2003 here.
i think while there's definitely *passages* of Raven being depicted with very much indian features, and Perez claiming he had used the likeness of Indian actress Persis Khambatta, there is, overall, no comic that depicts Raven as an indian woman, not *really*.
It might be faulty coloration with these old comics (and it's definitely pretty white-washed in the reprints you get to buy nowadays), but she just doesn't come across as that indian, to me.
Like, i think Wolfman and Perez wanted their cake (in getting to design some sort of "eXoTiC" character) and eat it too (in not having to tackle any racial or cultural implications). Hence, throw some saris and a bindi on otherwise not that PoC features.
That being said, i *love* reading her as non-white, Raven's interpretation in TT: Year One as a native-american woman is beautiful, and putting her into old asian tradition is pretty fitting if you accept how multi-religious India is: You can definitely read the struggle of pure good Azar against pure evil Trigon in a Zoroastrian sense, no New Age nonsense needed.
Anyways, i like your interpretation a lot, there are not a lot of PoC goth girls in media (even though a lot of hardcore New Teen Titans fans will fight us on the goth thing lol), we *need* her.
Thanks for drawing big hair Kori, she just isn't the same in the 2003 cartoon.
Ah damn it i just love these girls so much!
Good work on the boys as well, hell yeah it's so cool to see these folks with their diverse backgrounds in mind!
I ADORE Teen Titans Year One! I completely love the Native American depiction of Raven, it also had a lot of Jericho in it too! (I long for more heroic and less villainous Jericho, but I’ll take what I can get lol)
I loved this comment!! this is very long but it’s mostly me being a nerd, sorry if this is totally boring😅
Indian people have a variety of skin tones! Hence why I say "light-skinned Indian woman" in the beginning of the video. I also said something like "at least that’s what my eyes see," to acknowledge that was my subjective experience when I read to comic. Your reading experience is also valid!
There’s the concept of queer-coded characters, Who aren’t directly stated as queer, but have traits and subtext that can be read as queer. I’ve seen a similar case made for POC coded characters in fantasy series. There is no such thing as "Native American" in a high fantasy world like Critical Role’s Exandria, yet the case can be made that Veth’s dark skin, style of hair, and dress are Native-American-Coded, even as a halfling. In the case of Raven, she’s in a world that’s basically our world (with superheroes, Yes, but our world none the less) at an American college. So it’s hard to tell what’s code and what’s visual canon confirmation.
George and Marv also have stated that they originally intended for Jericho to be gay, but then second-guessed that decision as well. Only to have him eventually come out using sign language in DC’s Convergence event in June of 2015.
My read (and this is only my opinion I could 100% be very wrong) is that they wanted the group to be more diverse than the era (and possibly editorial) would allow. Raven is such an enigma because she becomes more white as her story progresses. Her real name is Raven, she canonically had no last name being from Azarath, but as the 2003 show grew in popularity she goes to high school and adopts the fake name Rachel Roth, which is explicitly a fake name. Later in the comics and in the Titans live-action show, suddenly she was BORN Rachel Roth and then adopted the name Raven.
I guess my closing thought is that I hate how Raven goes from at-most depicted explicitly as a light-skinned Indian Woman and at-least depicted as a racially ambiguous character who is Indian coded, To then being depicted unambiguous as white and catholic.
Thank you for the lovely comment! It’s fun having people to talk to about stuff like this. I also love big hair Starfire. The girls dynamic is my fav in the show and I desperately need more of it all the time!!
@@nathanlongs Thanks for the deliberation on Raven's development, absolutely agree. Personally, i also always read Raven as a queer character, with like, her hidden side she is afraid of and she has to deal with, her not necessarily passing as human... and i really dislike how Raven is very much canonically heterosexual now (with Beast Boy, of course, which is not the *worst* but... come on, this is the future, we don't need more of *this*).
i feel like, in general, we kinda need to steal these poor characters away from their copyright holders and make them *ours*, haha.
Definitely an unfortunate development.
One of my favorite episodes of the 2003 cartoon remains "Switched", to this day. These very different girls playing off each other, rescuing the boys... they're both so strong in such different ways and baby me absorbed it like a sponge.
While I LIVE for ms Olsen as Wanda i would've loved a romani actress
Raven was originally drawn as white so it’s really not possible to whitewash her
@@nartebear Hi! This is incorrect, Raven was drawn racially ambiguous but coded as South Asian. As stated in the video she was modeled off Persis Khambatta, an Indian actress she was later redesigned off Fran Macgregor, a white dancer. Overtime the character has been distanced from her original design. I will agree the term "white-washing" is being used liberally here. Most of the time, when we talk about whitewashing, it’s in the context of an already established person-of-color being portrayed as white. In this case, Raven was racially ambiguous, but coded as Indian and the progression of her becoming a white Catholic-raised character represents the transition from an ambiguous racial "other" to deliberatlely white. The character had the potential to go from being ambiguously Indian to deliberately Indian however she was taken in a different direction. If this comment is in regard to her skin tone, I stated in the video that she was represented as a light skinned Indian woman, as there are a variety of skin tones in South Asia. Also, The character still wears a bindi to this day!
Also, as I said in the video, it’s OK to like the white version of Raven! One of my favorite depictions of Raven was in an elseworld story where she was native American and there was no canon justification for this, the story was just really cool! I also ADORE the animated Teen Titan’s version. The great thing about these characters is that they’ve been depicted in many different ways by different artists and authors and I think that’s wonderful. The history of Raven is interesting, and although I think it would be cool to see the character portrayed as Desi, that’s just my opinion! I don’t want to take away anyone else’s version. Just add another🤍✨
Hope you have a great day!
@@nathanlongs I have no problem with the depiction of her as indian, but the title of your video was quite misleading as while she may have originally been designed with indian features in mind, she appeared indiscernible from all of the other caucasian characters in DC. I think your redesign does look great tho!
I don't know why you removed raven's purple palette, it's iconic + symbolic. beast boy already has green, together the team is purple, green, orange, blue, and red.
also why do so few people acknowledge beast boy's character arc? he's not just the comic relief, he has a whole arc about wanting to be taken seriously. he literally never fits in, being green forces him to stand out and look different. his personality is comedic because he'd rather be a joke than a freak. it's pretty tragic, i recommend giving the cartoon a rewatch.
I'm not trying to be mean or anything, i'm just being critical (and i'm bad at sounding polite :v)
and my favorites are starfire and cyborg. i relate to cyborg, being a "freak" for reasons outside of his control (the scene with the kid with the prosthetic made me tear up recently), and i just love starfire's positive personality and colorful design. i'm a sucker for mod-style clothing. it sucks the show was cancelled before her season arc.
Dick Grayson looks so Steve Harrington core /pos
I zoned out a bit, so when the whole talk about cyborg came up about "time out in the space station, and arc revolving around Father", I thought Nathan was talking about the Umbrella Academy, which - thinking back on it - is kinda similar to Teen Titans
Lol they are similar in a lot of ways!
LOOOOOOOOOOVE THIS!
intrestingly there is a teen titans comic titled "teen titan earth one" depicts raven as navajo! i do not know if it is a respectful depiction (it was written by a white man so take it with a grain of salt), but it was interesting take on raven either way!
Beautiful 😍 😊
Teen Titans
While not a Titan (outside the last few episodes of of series), one character I found when going threw the comics that they completely white washed is Jinx. Though maybe that was completely on purpose to not depict an Indian woman as a villain in the cartoon.
I always liked Raven because of the goth aesthetic and how edgy she was 😅 Still love her, but I think I grew to enjoy the rest of the crew more over the years ❤
It’s hard to not love the witchy friend of the group!
Raven is white. At least on her mother’s side. In the og comic Trigon assumed a human form at first to trick Raven’s mom into doing the nasty. The form he took very well could have been that of an Indian man, which carried over to raven.
As for the Indian style garb, I know Raven grew up in a place called Azeroth, the clothing there may have been Indian inspired for their made up culture. Still it would make sense for raven to keep dressing that way after she left Azeroth, since that style and aesthetic was what she grew up with.
TLDR: Interdimensional woman vibes w/Indian/desi culture, because it’s super similar to where she grew up maybe.
have you ever watched young justice?
all of them are good
Nathan has to move on to beast boy but he just wants to talk about cyborg 😢
Isn't Beast Boy latino now?
I’m not sure, the actor to play him in the live action show was half-Japanese half-Jewish. Not sure about current comics.
I thought Raven was from Azarath
beast boy is vegan in teen titans go!