Om617 knocking/rattling noise, injector nailing before and after nozzle replacement
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 16 ก.ค. 2024
- Replaced the injector nozzles on my 82 W123 Mercedes 300D in hopes of quieting down a strange metallic knock/rattle/ping I was concerned could be rod knock.
This engine was run for an unknown time with low oil pressure due to not having any oil in it thanks to the turbo drain leaking, which started flattening a lobe on the cam, and froze up the bearing on the vacuum pump.
I caught both just in time as there was no real metal fragments or anything seemingly wrong from a visual analysis of the oil. It had a strange little tapping noise, I tried a different set of injectors I pulled from a car in a junkyard, Wasn't smart enough to replace crush washers, seemed to help a little so we drove the car for quite some time, have done a few oil changes and that little pinging knocking sound hasn't ever really gotten worse but it hasn't seemed to go away either.
Decided to dig in and see what I could find.
We nearly immediately after making this video took the car about 100 miles, It seems the injectors are settling in very nicely, the car has quieted down and smoothed out quite a lot from where it was in this video.
Check your injectors, especially if they've never been serviced/rebuilt!
Key things in video:
0:00 Introduction
1:06 Starting engine before, listening to the noise, noticing bubbling from cyl2
2:16 Removing injectors to investigate the bubbling
3:25 Finding cyl2 injector wet and covered in carbon buildup
3:40 Cyl1 has carbon built up on one side of heat shield and around prechamber slightly
4:14 Some footage from pop-testing to show difference between a very bad injector (cyl2) and a decent injector (cyl3)
5:40 Crush washer was barely contacting cyl2 injector.
7:00 Rebuilding injector video coming later, In meantime, New DN0SD314 nozzles (Larger than stock = More power?)
7:30 Cleaning injector threads and crush washer mating surface in head with small brass brush
8:15 Installing new crush washers
9:00 Torquing injectors into head
11:05 All back together, bleeding air out of injector lines
11:25 Running on new injectors
11:50 Before and After comparisons
12:14 Test drive
13:00 Closing thoughts
Links to products used in this video: (These may be affiliate links so that I get a small commission if you choose to purchase any of these items from these links)
ACDelco Torque adapter: amzn.to/2BTcnap
Powerbuilt 27mm Deep socket: amzn.to/2NoPFfG
Firad DN0SD314 Nozzles (One size larger than stock): www.idparts.com/firad-injecto...
Firad DN0SD265 Nozzles (Stock Nozzles): www.idparts.com/firad-sd265-i...
Crush washers: www.idparts.com/injector-heat...
Things you need to use the gigantic primary "prefilter" that I have:
Filter housing: amzn.to/31lon0T
Mesh filter: amzn.to/39VP14r
Fittings: amzn.to/2XqYBHq
3/8 fuel line: amzn.to/3gtDdZy
Clamps for fuel line: amzn.to/31mavUd - ยานยนต์และพาหนะ
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Links to products used in this video: (These may be affiliate links so that I get a small commission if you choose to purchase any of these items from these links)
ACDelco Torque adapter: amzn.to/2BTcnap
Powerbuilt 27mm Deep socket: amzn.to/2NoPFfG
Firad DN0SD314 Nozzles (One size larger than stock): www.idparts.com/firad-injector-nozzle-sd-314-p-3085.html
Firad DN0SD265 Nozzles (Stock Nozzles): www.idparts.com/firad-sd265-injector-nozzle-om616-om617-om601-om602-om603-p-3084.html
Crush washers: www.idparts.com/injector-heat-shield-ring-om616-om606-om617-om602-om603-p-3118.html
Things you need to use the gigantic primary "prefilter" that I have:
Filter housing: amzn.to/31lon0T
Mesh filter: amzn.to/39VP14r
Fittings: amzn.to/2XqYBHq
3/8 fuel line: amzn.to/3gtDdZy
Clamps for fuel line: amzn.to/31mavUd
I found this very helpful. I let my 84 300D run out of oil, now it's nailing and the injectors are leaking. Hopeful I can just pull them, replace the washers, etc. Fingers crossed.
If it is possible, see about getting the nozzles changed out while you're at it, I put firad 314s in here and I couldn't be happier, as we've been driving it after this work it seems to be quieting down and performing better as the miles count up!
Whatever you do don't do what this guy did his motor sounds way worse now and it almost Taps on every cylinder
Cool content dude....Keep uploading!!!
Thanks very much for the kind compliment! I've got more videos in the works, some involving this car, others just the random projects I get myself into!
Thats great!..I am waiting :D
If the system has air in it will sound like that, make sure you bleed all the air out first on the tube that conects to the injector.
Thanks for the video always nice learning something new.
It quieted down a lot as the nozzles broke in, which could also have been a small amount of entrapped air, but after about 100 miles total it quieted right down and runs smooth as butter now!
Just found this video and heard the noise before is what I have exactly. Got to get my mechanic to watch this as I am not confident enough to do it myself.
This is a great video and the best I’ve found for explaining how the fuel injectors work. Thank you so much! Immensely helpful getting my 79 w116 300sd running better
Glad it was helpful for you! I just pulled my injectors and re poptested them, found one was off by a bit, re-shimmed it and it has smoothed out my idle and the whole car seems a bit smoother now.
I've got to edit the video on doing that soon, I got some better footage of actually popping the injectors since I've got the shop now I have better lighting and stuff so hopefully it turned out good.
That is great. Seems like these shims are pretty critical. I took the fuel injectors out on my 300sd to test them and ream/replace the glow plugs and found two of my 5 injectors are om616 ones! Maybe that’s what’s causing my pinging
It is unreal how much smoother my car is after doing that reshim I did a few weeks ago. Having 2 616 injectors would make for some real weird stuff if they were not properly shimmed to the turbo PSI, the bodies and everything are interchangable, just the turbo 617 nozzles got a higher pop pressure, I don't recall the exact specs for each, I know the turbo injectors are supposed to be around 1950psi, get too far away from that lower or higher will cause weird imbalance and likely sounds too as it'll throw off the timing slightly, the atomization of the fuel and the amount of fuel injected to each cylinder.
@@trythistvhat’s great to hear what a difference that made for you! And yes that’s what I read. It’s 1,950psi pop pressure for turbo and around 1,650psi for non turbo. I didn’t know the housings were identical on the insides because the collar is displaced. I tested the pressure they popped at and it was actually around 1,950 so someone in the past must have reshimmed them which is good. The spray pattern in 4 of the 5 was very bad though and 2 of them were actually leaking. I have bought some monarch nozzles and also two new injectors just in case the internals are different and will rebuild them in the next couple days so I will report back with the results! Thanks again these videos are awesome and huge help working on my 79 w116 300sd
@@trythistv I finally got to firing it up after rebuilding the fuel injectors, new glow plugs, new fuel hoses, filters, engine mounts, intake manifold/exhaust manifold, turbo oil return and feed line seals, turbo charge pipe seals etc. and wow it runs way way smoother and noticeably more power as well. Huge difference and totally worth the effort. Also starts much more easily but replacing the glow plugs 2 out of 5 were dead and one was not working well may have played into that. Thanks again! 👍
Great video! I have lots of videos on these old school Benzes. Best cars ever made!
Yes sir! I recognize your channel! I'm trying to do some more videos of the random things I do on my own stuff, and Tinkering on these old diesels is just a blast. I've got another w123 yet to be introduced (its the grey one possibly visible in this video) that I did a 4 speed swap on. My very first car was a 1980 300SD, I bought it when I was 15 and sold it when I was 25 because I was having such a hard time finding parts for the W116 body.
Can't beat an old Benz!
@@trythistv Nice! And looking forward to your future videos.
I love these cars so much and try to save as many as possible. Truly irreplaceable machines! I just drove my W126 300SD accross the country like 6 months ago. It has about 450k miles now.
And that's crazy, I am so obsessed with these cars that I've actually been wanting to get a W116 as well!
I bought my dad a 1990 W126 420SEL last year and shipped it to him to Europe. He loves that car so much. I have a playlist on that car too.
Just ordered a set of these for my 300SD. Just recently I began noticing a similar noise on my engine #3.
I suspect you'll appreciate the extra low end power and getting rid of the nailing!
Cool. I just today did the same for my 1982 blue 617. 200k and i was shocked at how good of shape the injectors were in. Sounds good, but i have not driven it as of yet.
I like it when you leave more information on the items you used in all the videos you make. Extremely helpful. But, can you give or post information on that pump you use to test your injectors?
I've been thinking I need to make a video about injectors, and how to test them, I've been using the tester pump I built for years now, on my W123s injectors, my trucks injectors, my backhoe injectors, generator... etc etc, super useful tool to have and it wasn't that expensive to build, and is VASTLY better than the commercial ones I've seen, I bought one of them and it broke on the first injector I tested.
I'll put together a video sometime soon, perhaps I'll even clean off my workbench so it isn't a giant disaster... probably not though 😂
Gawd it's so easy to work on!
No computers! Nothing too complex! All mechanical, One time My alternator belts broke but I didn't realize it until I was driving along and my radio shut off and dash went dead. That was because the battery went flat. I finished my drive with no electronics, and got a jump start when I headed home.
Nice video thanksgivings
Every 617 seems to have its own unique clatter signature. You can try liquid moly CeraTec next oil change. I’ve seen it quite down several noisy engines in otherwise good shape.
I've noticed they all have a different personality too. It gets real weird when you start comparing the smells of various diesels. The idi Mercedes vs Cat vs Cummins vs Navistar etc, they all have a different odor even with the exact same fuel from the exact same station.
These engine had pre-chambers instead of swirl chambers. The pre- chamber had a round ball in the center of it onto which the injector would spray to disperse the fuel. The flame front would exit the nose of the pre-chamber through the holes in the nose protruding into the cylinder to continue the combustion. This ball inside the pre-chamber has been known to come loose from time to time or just plain and simple get damaged from wear. In any case damage to the ball in any shape or for would create noisy and bad running conditions as well. You will need to remove the injector on then use a special multi-spline socket to spin the threaded locking collar out that holds the pre-chamber in. Next: DO NOT FORGET TO REMOVE THE GLOW PLUG FIRST!!! BEFORE REMOVING THE PRE-CHAMBER!!!!(Since the glow plug extends into the prechamber and will brake off if not removed prior)
Next thread in a slide hammer and remove the pre-chamber from the head so it can be inspected!
Had you experienced this before? I currently am having the same noise with a little engine shake and what feels like a misfire. No smoking or metal in oil.78 300d n/a
Hi, yes I have seen this before. I would have sworn the rod bearing was gone, yet it just turned out to be a nailing injector. Before jumping to any conclusions or spending large sums of money I would first drive iwhile running a good quality cleaner injector cleaner through it. If that does not solve anything then I would remove injectors and do a compression test on all cylinders.
If you find one or more cylinders significantly lower then the rest, you might want to pull the oil pan and inspect the rod bearings on the cylinders that were low first. Also perform a leak down test to determine where you are loosing the bulk of the compression. Also do not forget that after all of this the injection pump could also be faulty on one or more pump plungers and cause less fuel to be injected on those cylinders. You can always hook up test tunes to the pump, crank it over and verify all pump plungers are moving similar amounts of fuel!
Thanks, I had one do the same thing. Hard knock in #1, sounded like a rod bearing. Pulled the sump and bearing was fine. Never did figure it out. Still have the engine.
Cool video ! Thumbs up !
Thank you! We'll be doing more to this car as time goes on, These new nozzles have settled in nicely after about 100 miles of driving, and the difference in low end power is quite dramatic, pulling away from a stop sign its got a lot more grunt based on my Butt Dyno® results :)
Thank you 🙏
Excellent video i will do so for my 603 engine
I suspect the 603 is smoother than my 617 to begin with, but with a fresh set of injector nozzles it'll purr like a kitten!
Nice video my friend. I think the rebuilt injectors made a big difference. I would have set the new injectors at exactly 1950 psi. I would also use Monarch German nozzles. My other observation is that when you take the high pressure fuel lines off the injector pump, you MUST put some caps over the exposed fittings on the pump as the smallest particles can raise hell with your injectors. Those lines are downstream from all filtration. Otherwise, I like your approach to filming and certainly better than most.
You know you're absolutely right. The nozzles and pintles are such fine tolerances, even a miniscule amount of dirt could wreak havoc in an injector. Hadn't thought about that much, good call!
@@trythistv Since my last comment, I replaced the indjectors in my OM617 as well and it made a world of difference. The rebuilt injectors were set to pop at 1950 psi with Monarch Nozzles. My acceleration from a stop is far better and I believe I'm getting much better fuel economy although haven't confirmed yet. It is true that you should always use new crush washers every time you install the injectors.
Thanks
bought a car that had a slight knock which increased over time until the car was finally toast. Good luck but sounds like rod knock to me. I chased every fix hoping it wasn't rod knock. I secure the heat shields around the cat, even went as far as replacing timing chain tensioners and chain. The timing chain tensioners were actually broken but it also had a terminal case of rod knock. I think a good test for rod knock is to manually turn the engine (as in ratchet connected to crankshaft bolt) with the plugs removed so you can stick a long skinny tool(screw driver) in the hole, resting on top of the piston. When the piston of the cyclinder you're testing hits top dead center and then barely begins to go down, you stop turning the engine and press down on the top of the piston to see if there is any play. If the piston moves at all when you press down on it that's trouble. My car had a ton of metal in the oil though so maybe it's not rod knock. This test is what finally made me give up on the car. You can drive into the ground either way though
I just realized it's a diesel, so disregard....
Hehe yeah I was reading your comment and thought oh man if it had spark plugs it would be a terrifying racket it's making!
I had the same hammering sound on my 85 300D. I put brand new Bosch injectors in it and the noise went away. The shop wanted $12 to test them and $100 a piece to rebuild them.
It is astounding how much difference replacing my injectors nozzles has made, the car runs so much better now.
Great video! Though it appears you have alot of buildup on your injectors vs the typically weeping craters seen on most worn injectors.
Have you run a 2 can diesel purge treatment to clear our your injection system?
I have run it on seafoam from a second "tank", I'm definitely getting some of the liqui moly stuff to try, I've heard its really good stuff. We did have an "event" where fuel quality was total trash, plugged filters, a whole mess of nonsense, it didn't seem to make anything change as far as how the car ran, but I still cleaned/changed all the filters and tank strainer, but I had suspected these injectors had issues, and finally got the chance to try new nozzles.
The new nozzles did make a dramatic difference in the sound of the car as well as the smoothness, and as they have settled in, its gotten quite a dramatic low end torque boost. the car feels like a rocket off the line.
I suspect I have a plugged tank strainer once again or a overboost valve giving me issues as it seems to choke out a bit at higher speeds (over 2k rpm so still low in reality) much more than my other 617s have.
I am still going to do the liqui moly purge but keep your eyes peeled for some videos about testing the overboost valve and quite likely tank strainer (Me taking a shower in diesel fuel basically lol)
@@trythistv Ironically, Seafoam doesn't really help our cars much. I know its great- I've used it on all my gasoline vehicles with great results (through the manifold + tank). In Classic diesels, nothing works quite like 2 bottles of Diesel Purge in a closed loop through the fuel pump + 1 in the tank + 3 New filters + new fuel return lines.
Also recommend a 2 bottle Auto RX engine oil treatment to renew internal rubber sealing and remove carbon buildup. Works wonders on a car that basically needs lubrication to live forever!
@@avivscrewvalla well I am certainly excited to give diesel purge a try! I'm getting it all ready to go very soon, I have had success with doing the seafoam in a closed loop the same as they say to do the diesel purge, and it seemed to always help a little, nothing spectacular for sure, but usually smoothed stuff out a bit. I'm blown away with the new nozzles, either I've always had cars with terrible nozzles or going a size larger made a very dramatic difference! The car still doesn't smoke but it feels "zippy" now as my wife would describe it. I had a w116 that started in 2nd gear all the time (earlier trans was set up that way I guess) and you got used to matting the throttle at every stop light so nobody would honk. The w123s start in 1st so they've got more pep to begin with but I have broken the tires loose on wet pavement leaving a stop sign now, it feels totally different, still has a little more noise and vibration than some 617s I've seen so I'm excited to try the diesel purge! I think I've finally found my rainwater leak (windshield seal) which I'm dreading replacing but not having a wet interior will be nice, then I can putter on the other little things the car needs along slowly!
Sounds so good with the new nozzles. The knock seems to be gone and a more even sound on all cylinders.
I've put thousands of miles on with those nozzles and it got smoother and smoother for about the first 500 miles or so. Well worth putting in a new set of nozzles and balancing all the pop pressures.
Heh trythis. Nice video. I had what sounded like the exact sound from my engine (tet to post). It was there for 4 years and never really got worse. It did drive me crazy however. Using a stethoscope I narrowed it down to the vacuum pump. I pulled the vacuum pump and sure enough the tiny wheel on the rocker was pitted and wore a deep groove into the cam. I ground down the cam and polished it and will be getting a new pump and cam also. I replaced the injectors and did the valve timing and seals and I still have knocking but it matches the engine and its not so prominent. .
Ah the vacuum pump. I would say the silent killer but sometimes they get real noisy when they come apart, other times they drop ball bearings into the timing chain and bang it's over.
Before I ever made this video I looked and looked at this engine, I found the camshaft slightly worn and thought "that's it!" And after replacing the cam it was still noisy so I replaced the vacuum pump after finding the bearing intact but not easy to roll, and the sound persisted.
The injectors did help quite a bit, and smoothed the engine out a ton from the shaky mess it was before, it does still have a little rattle but is not getting louder and isn't really noticable unless you're listening for it since the injectors have settled in.
I do have a few more things in mind to see if I can track down if it's a normal noise now that I've done all this work and it is so much quieter or if there is some other issue lurking.
@@trythistv I have the same noise, and I think its time to just ignore it for the sake of my mental. Although it is hard to ignore that hard, timed, clanking.
Did you ever get rid of the noise completely? Also curious if you pulled the pre-chambers and inspected them, especially if you had a leaking injector.
I would say it is gone, the engine runs quite smoothly, and the rythmic knock is gone, the more consistent diesel clatter has quieted down a lot after the new nozzles broke in about 100 miles or so of driving.
I didn't pull any prechambers, I did stick a borescope in each of them when I had the injectors out to ensure all the "balls" were intact, and they were, I also did a compression test, and found all cylinders between 370 and 390psi. Sadly the borescope video/pictures didn't come out super clear so I didn't include them in any of the videos I've done tracking down these issues.
Another viewer mentioned it appears my engine was a factory rebuilt unit, and there is a suspicious tag on the side that leads me to believe the same, so the engine should be fairly healthy, aside from the issues brought on by sitting and a few severely neglected parts I have since remedied but continue hunting down other parts that were damaged.
@@trythistv thanks for your input and that’s great you might have ended up with a factory rebuild engine!
Nice. A compression test and possible culprits is where I would look after doing a quick valve adjustment with a feeler gage. To me it sounds like the piston is tapping against the cylinder wall. You might be able to locate the noise with a long rod against the engine block.
I did a compression test when I got the car (it was making the rattling then) and each cylinder was within 10ish psi of 350 with the engine cold and no oil, fuel or anything in the cylinders to help rings seal, which I think is pretty good for a 210k+ mile motor. The injectors did quiet it down a lot, I'm a little suspicious of the timing chain, I am going to be investigating that soon as I'm curious if it has stretched out and tweaked the timing causing some extra combustion noise as a result, or possibly even is so loose the tensioner has run out of adjustment and it is rattling in the cavity where it rides.
I tried using a mechanics stethoscope and it seemed to be more pronounced toward the front of the engine, but it was hard to get an exact read on where it was from.
There will be more videos of this car, one coming super soon about the lack of top end power involving the tank strainer and other fuel system stuff!
Mine's been doing this for 38 years.
It'll probably continue for 38 more years! I've smoothed mine out slightly but it still has the distinctive 617 sound
Thanks for the Video I'm having the same noise with my 1980 non turbo 300D. I've replaced the vacuum pump, timing chain tensioner and did a valve adjustment. Noise still there. I bled each injector while running but didn't really hear any difference, going to pressure test them next. Noise seems to be stronger once the engine warms up- did you notice this on yours? Car otherwise runs fine starts up strong down to the single digits, has good power(for a non turbo).
Dead on! The hotter the engine was the more pronounced it seemed to be. I'd check the pop pressures, doing the nozzles and balancing them did make a distinct difference in the sound of the car, I should make another recording of how it sounds now that the new nozzles have settled in a bit. I have some other things I'm curious about adding to the noise as well, timing chain stretch being #1, as I too replace vacuum pump and several other random things looking for the noise source, compression tested, valve adjustment, swapped the cam out even when I found peculiar wear on one lobe
Maybe it's the ball bearing in the prechamber that can come loose and make a strange rattle and inconsistent engine idle
@@zoticus1 I checked the prechambers with a borescope but it really didn't make sense to have in the video, it doesn't record very well but they all looked intact, the injectors definetly have helped, I'm a little suspicious of the injection timing now
👍
Awesome video. My truck is making the same noise. I thought it maybe a faulty injector. Diesel mechanic believes there is something more sinister going on 🤥 . Funnily enough I put injector cleaner in and the noise got louder.. another recons it maybe just a lose or bad injector 🤔
What engine is in your truck? You can crack open the injector lines to drop a cylinder and see if the sound is primarily coming from one specific cylinder, that could help narrow it down
@@trythistv sorry for late reply.. it a mazda bounty wl 2.5 turbo engine
I have an OM605 and on a cold start after about 2mins running smoothly in the garage it starts making this rattling noise and whiteish smoke starts coming out of the exhaust. The vibration can be also noticed in the inside of the car and in the low rpms. However, it either goes away after a while or if I start the engine again it works just fine. I suspect a faulty injector but strangely it is not a continuous rattle.
Any (other) suggestions what that might be?
It goes away if you stop the engine and restart it? I'm not super familiar with the 605, I believe that is a mechanically injected engine just the same as mine, so I would tend to think it is an injector or delivery valve sticking, injector nozzles can leak and do weird stuff, especially on a cold start it would be most noticable. I feel like you can't get to the injector lines easily on that engine to crack the lines one at a time to see if it is isolated to one cylinder, but maybe with a stethoscope or something you could narrow down where the noise is coming from. Smoke does tend to indicate a fuelling issue like a nozzle is peeing or spraying wonky
crankschaft bearings cheap to buy but loads of work had same problem
I've been driving the car for years and haven't noticed any metal in the oil or any issues thusfar, I'm prepared to rebuild the engine if needed, but for now it does seem like it is in incredibly good health.
Do you think you can get this similar noise if the line going into the injector is leaking? I've replaced all my injectors but now the line on one injector is bleeding off.
If you're talking about the metal hard line the answer is yes. If that line is leaking some of the fuel won't be getting injected, so you'll have one cylinder not contributing which will make it very rattley and likely shake around a lot more than it should
What is the rhythmic tapping that still exists after the injector rebuild? Is that the lift pump or something? It’s not injector noise. But it’s still a Ruth if tapping, sounds like two wooden handles being hit together. Thanks!
So it has seemed to quiet down some as I drove it after the injector rebuild, has great oil pressure, I went so far to pull the oil pan and check for any play in the connecting rods, everything was tight as a drum. I have wondered if there could be a valve that isn't quite sealing perfectly, the EGR was stuck on when I got the car, and it was run low on oil which damaged the cam and followers, I changed the cam and followers, and made sure the EGR won't stick open ever again, it does have a little bit of a lope now and then, but has great compression across all 5 and is even, not a low cylinder or such. I will have to do an updated video of the sound it makes now with a few thousand miles on the injectors.
did you inspect the prechambers i want to do that to mine
I sighted down in them with a borescope, they all looked identical, clean, ball intact in each one, all seemed a-ok, I didn't include it in the video because it didn't really show anything interesting and wasn't very clear what I was doing on camera. I have an engine I'm going to be tearing down at some point so I will likely be doing a lot of detailed videos on stuff like that if you're interested in seeing it!
It's easier to run the engine then loosen the fuel lines 1 by 1 to pinpoint the faulty injector causing that knocking noise
I tried that, it wasn't very conclusive, I fought and fought with chasing the sound, I think I finally solved it, the injector pump was failing and causing a misfire, it gradually progressed and changing the injector nozzles would mask it slightly for a while.
You look David Wallace with Dwights hair from the office.
Someone mentioned I looked like David Wallace before, I didn't see it at all, but now that you've tossed in Dwight's hair I can't unsee it lol
@@trythistv I think its charming lol.
Hey man great video but would a good old school Italian tune up and lucas fuel injector cleaner fix this?
By the way man hell ya love seeing videos on these old school mercedes diesels
I'd tried a number of things, This engine had been run low on oil, so I swapped out the worn down camshaft, rockers, and fixed the massive oil leak from the turbo drain, nothing I did seemed to quiet that little rattle, the injectors helped immensely, even after trying various injector cleaners and plenty of italian tuneups 😄 I'm still a bit suspicious that the timing chain may be stretched a bit out of spec, one of these days I'm going to check and see just how bad it is
Do you have a good source for an injector shim kit for the OM617 ?
I have not found an exact shim kit, but Mcmaster-carr sells bags of spring steel shims (very hard metal, perfect for this application)
Here are some part numbers and such:
I have used these in conjunction with factory shims that may have been gently lapped to remove material if needed:
0.1mm thick shims (raises pop about 50psi) 98055A105
0.2mm thick shims (raises pop about 100psi) 98055A106
I have not used any of these, but they may be useful, or may not be at all:
0.3mm thick I'm unsure if these are useful 98055A107
0.5mm thick I'm unsure if these are useful 98055A108
1mm thick I'm unsure if these are useful 98055A109
@@trythistv Outstanding. Thank you sir!
so youre saying these injectors inject a bit more fuel? i know a lot of people have to send out the pump for more fuel but these nozzles add a bit?
They change how the fuel spray is, which changes the power curve slightly, I was mistaken to say they provide more fuel, on an IDI the fuel is limited by the pumps output, but the injector nozzle does change how it sprays and thus how it burns, these do give a pretty substantial bump to low end power, but if you want more power everywhere then the pump will have to come off and get adjusted or if you want really big power, new elements fitted into the pump.
The car is now older, and idling lower cause of injection pump rail wear, I would idle up a little higher using a newer gauge, instead of the stock rpm gauge inside the car, , a nicer rail knock diesel noise is an idle around 900+, although the om617 will idle just fine at a low idle of 300 rpm 🤗
Open up the fuel on the fuel adjuster alda a little bit plus wine out the transmission adjustment to get power back on the road...good job on the fuel injector swap, did you test your new injectors? Sometimes there no good sent...new
I did pop test the injectors before and after the new nozzles, balanced them out and later found some bad fuel clogging up the tank strainer and fuel filters to be hindering the power as well, the car drives real nice now, but I do have more plans to squeeze some more power out safely!
Also, good call on the idle speed, I just picked up one of those laser tachometers for tuning carbs on some of the boats I work on as marine tachometers seem to have an absolutely ridiculous amount of inaccuracy. I'll have to check where my car is idling with that!
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My fuel injectors making nosie until I warm up my car
My 1985 300d turbo never change or reset injecters mileage 186000 engine shake little after warm up should I replace injector
I noticed a huge difference with new nozzles and having them all balanced to pop at the right pressure seems to smooth out my engines so much, at 186k miles, I'd say it would be well worth doing.
Have changed all injectors noses. Same knocking noise. What else to do? Valves?
A valve adjustment can help, delivery valves could contribute too.
What else too?
I have a '12 W166 ML350 Bluetec , once the mechanic changed the water pump and 1 of the injectors my car making the same noise, possible injector issue, prior to that single injector changed car was running fine....
I would be a little leery of changing 1 injector, it may not be a huge deal with a newer electronically controlled car like yours, but I know with my older mechanical diesels it is imperative for the injectors to be balanced, which is why I had this noise, one injector was not spraying the same amount of fuel as the others, perhaps there is a need for the computer to be "taught" the new injector has a different flow rate?
@@trythistv thank you for your reply and insight . One month later car still at the shop and mechanic doesn’t seem to be able figure out . Issue started after he changed one injector he noticed leaking diesel fuel and month later making very similar sound as your car , at times goes away after resetting the ecu few hours later it comes back and stays .
That sounds like its not balanced properly, either the new injector is different than the rest, or the ECU isn't programmed to spray the right amount of fuel out of it. I'd see what part number is on that injector vs the other ones, it is possible the new one was for a slightly different engine.
@@trythistv I agree, once the new injector was put in, been acting funny, works for few hours ( I believe after clearing code/ ecu) one car is off and come back hours later makes that sound . will reach out and advise them change all seals or double check part number on the injector . or program it .
3 years later how is the knocking sound?
I feel like it has improved, I do have an odd little misfire that I cannot figure out that I suspect might be related.
I've adjusted valves, checked cam timing, injection timing, replaced injectors, replaced delivery valves, checked compression, inspected prechambers, and it still has a miss that makes it shake ever so slightly and puff a rhythmic puff of smoke when its hot at idle.
I'm not sure if it could be the pump is not balanced or what, but it does run much better, has decent power and has been thousands and thousands of miles every year with no real major issues, so I can't complain.
The more advanced the timing the worse they rattle.
I would set the pump timing back and see if that changes it
It sounds like a 12 valve Cummins
At the moment I believe the pump timing is actually retarded from the stock 24 degrees due to my timing chain being a little old and stretched. Its still acceptable as far as cam timing and everything, but I know I should install an offset key or ideally roll a new chain before long.
trythistv I am new to the 617
Just bought an 1982 300 d turbo.
My did not have marks on the cam gear.
So I learned how to test it
On the #1 cylinder
Intake valve
At 11 degrees after tdc you should have 2mm of intake valve depression on #1 intake valve with the valve clearance set on 0
Mine was 15 degrees to get 2 mm depression. 4 degrees retarded. That is valve timing ,it should be spot on
Anyways mine is in pieces in my shop.
Decided just to go through it.
Thats the exact same year as both of my cars! I've been a member over at peachparts long before they were peachparts, there is a plethora of information on that site, here is a link in case you haven't found it yet: www.peachparts.com/shopforum/
I suspect you're doing the method for checking cam timing / chain stretch explained here: www.peachparts.com/Wikka/OM617TimingChainStretch
I lined up the marks on the cam gear and was off by more than 2 degrees which indicates the need for either a new chain or offset key, I'll be inspecting and determining which sometime soon after my busy season calms down and I can start working on my car again :)
Here is a thread about the injection timing: www.peachparts.com/shopforum/diesel-performance-tuning/378128-om617-pump-timing-24-vs-26-vs-28-a.html
The injection timing device built into the IP gear advances automatically and is driven off the timing chain, a worn chain could cause me some issues, more with shifting power around and lowering efficiency though I'd think.
If you're familiar with Cummins engines, especially the 12 valves, you'll grow to love these engines too, while not as powerful, they are very similar in a lot of ways, I opted to purchase a 2nd gen Cummins as a work truck because I'm comfortable with everything since I've owned one of these Mercedes diesels since I was 15!
trythistv thanks
I can use all the help I can get.
tak tak tak tak tak tak tak .... every old mercedes has that
A big part of the noise was a worn cam lobe, the injectors also helped a ton, it had a weird lopey shake to it as well, hard to tell some of this stuff on the video on the camera, now its a more normal level of that distinctive Mercedes clatter.
Did you ever find that noise?:)
Yes and no, I just responded to another message, it did seem to quiet down as I've driven it a little after the injector rebuild, I really dug into stuff and haven't found anything that seems concerning just yet, and it has gradually improved, which makes me wonder if there is grime in the intake from the EGR being stuck on that was/is making a valve not fully seal or such. I may poke into that one day soon
@@trythistv Thanks for the answer:)
welcome to Somalia
it almost the same, not a lot difference in the sound
The new nozzles were incredibly noisy for about 200 miles or so, it has quieted down a lot since then, but by no means does it sound as quiet as a modern TDI engine or such.
Sounds like a cracked air filter housing bracket.
I'm fairly sure I've replaced the isolators and bracket, The rattling has decreased dramatically as the new injectors have settled in, and having a good spray pattern has smoothed out the engine and added quite a bit of power as well.
Nope ... noise is the same
Pull your sump off and see if a bearing has lifted on conrod big ends
That was one of my first suspicions, I pulled it and checked the bearings when I got the car, everything looked spectacular, I've put probably close to 40k miles on it since then and it has never given us any issues.
I still have an odd noise that I'm thinking may be a misfire, and perhaps the nailing/knocking sound is due to whatever is causing the miss.
I've replaced injector nozzles twice, delivery valves, adjusted the valves twice, checked IP timing, checked timing chain stretch, checked compression, inspected prechambers (with a borescope, didn't pull them), and still have a random miss at idle, especially when its good and hot.
I'm wondering if I've got a barrel/plunger sticking in the IP like some of the 160hp p7100s on cummins trucks were known for.
I should probably do a video just talking about all I've done to the car, its been ruthlessly reliable, makes decent power but misses and puffs smoke at idle after a highway drive. Clears up after its cooled off overnight.
Check your rocker arms
Indeed it was an issue of partly worn cam lobe, damaged rocker, and some really trashed injectors. It has been running very smoothly for a number of years now since I did the cam, rockers and injectors.
Impressive that you picked up on the sound!
My 300D has a similar sound check out this engine sound comparison video :th-cam.com/video/_WFNXviNxw4/w-d-xo.html
I think a lot of the sound was the injectors spraying weird, as these new nozzles have been run a bit it sure seems quieter, I'm also investigating the timing chain stretch soon, as that can throw off the injection timing if its off too far