The Most BUFFED & NERFED Armies in the 40k June Update
ฝัง
- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 30 มิ.ย. 2024
- #Warhammer40k
More TacticalTortoise: linktr.ee/tacticaltortoise
See the changes for yourself: www.warhammer-community.com/w...
Timestamps:
00:00 Intro
00:33 Dishonorable Mention
02:05 Most Nerfed Armies
14:47 Honorable Mention
15:12 Most Buffed Armies
22:53 Outro - เกม
you forget to mention one of my favourite changes for nids, neurotyrants being able to join zoanthropes. +1 to hit and possibly wound is huge for zoans and they'll make a nice overwatch target, too. plus lethal hits from hive tyrant and sustained 1 in invasion fleet.
On top of that going with a neurotyrant grants the zoanthropes the monster key word, meaning they can fire while in combat. On top of this is their spirit leech ability, where if a unit fails battleshock within 6 inches of the unit, the enemy unit suffers D3 mortal wounds and your unit gains D3 wounds.
Yeah nids are in a great spot going in to this season, shame Crusher Stampede is still horrible but Invasion and Vanguard are extremely strong right now
@@anthonyhumpage7290rip my 120 freshly built termagants though lol - unending swarm just joined them in the competitive dumpster
GW "Please please Knight players, buy the FW knights, we totally, totally are not going to legend them! We promise!"
Not buying ANYTHING forgeworld for 40k
I mean, Cerastus just got Plastic kits. Who is to say if theyll still keep them due to minimal model range
I'll just wait for the plastic version🤭no way to buy a knight with a life maybe with serval months😏
Printed points are so stupid
And when we look at say, what just needed to happen to Tyranids and Admech, or what has changed in the core rulebook... printed rules of any sort are pretty stupid now
Printed *rules* are so stupid, given how much GW needs to update them. Digital-only, preferably free, so they can sell more plastic, is how they ought to go.
That they basically slapped points on anything that appeared somehow in a successfull tournament list for CSM annoys me to no end, especially with maybe 3 weeks of tournament data for the new codex. Warp Talons and Legionaries were warranted, maybe Vindicators, but the rest? Especially Havocs and Venom Crawlers make my head hurt. This seems very heavy handed.
I agree. Truly baffling that they did this. Didn’t touch very tough Necrons right after the book came out and said they needed more data.
As usual, GW over compensated for CsM as they almost always do.
"Minor nerf" to unending swarm.... um i think u mean huge gigantic nerf turning that from the best detachment they had to one which will never be played
Should be once per battle round imo
As a Nid player, I agree with the change. Means we can't just tie up units over and over again without strategies/ skilled play
@@TheBluBrawler
Its.....a 2cp strat....it was already at most one per battle round
Does seem to make the "Unending Swarm" more of a "Very Much Ending" swarm
@@CaptainWwowWOne-n-Done Swarm
Thank you for not downplaying how bad the Death Guard nerfs are like most of the content creators have been. I keep trying to get excited about actually playing them to finish up my army, but these last nerfs were so over the top that I'm going to wait to see if anyone can innovate something new to deal with the kind of egregious nerfs to continue. What was meant to be my first army will at best be the 3rd if not 4th now.
I'll be shelving my DG for a while as well. Going to switch over to ad mec for a bit.
If you needed to rely on indirect fire than consider playing better
@@seanalonzo9244 My DG have been shelved since Day 1 of this PoS edition...
I built mine as infantry heavy with few Rhinos, as the whole DG aspect is the horde of relentlessly advancing infantry. The entire identity of our Legion is the infantryman. Except our infantry have sucked all edition, and now our main support vehicle has been stripped from us too.
A single data sheet being slightly less accurate when it shoots indirect isn’t going to kill the faction in any way. To be honest hiding your toughest units in your deployment zone for most the game was always a trap.
@@gorthal1141 imagine being dumb enough to think that was the only change that hurt them when the video literally breaks it down for you.
I main World Eaters, I promise I'm well acquainted with playing without indirect fire.
Firestorm codex marines got a nasty nerf out of nowhere. Lost a lot of their strengths and got a hefty hike on the redeemer
Right when I was building out my first ever list. Argh!
Codex marines taking the hit because divergent doing stuff they don’t have access to. Dark angels ruined ironstorm and eventually space wolves will ruin storm lance before marines can even make use of it. They could have simply either removed flyer access to said abilities or simply removed access to divergent chapters who don’t have their own codex etc.
If you don’t abide by codex you don’t get the codex. Divergent chapters should have their own points cost to generic units.
playing salamanders in this update sucks because our lists not only got increases to the redeemer but also nerf to the captain stratagem (just in time for the sororitas book to include the same one but cheaper at 1cp).
It's a tough update, and it feels like these types of builds bay for the sins of other armies (flamestorm aggressors for example aren't nearly as dangerous as the gladius combo yet they still got pts nerfs for example instead of nerfing the artefact responsible for the insane damage output)
Well sister and SM are not the same.... that rule is the same yes but the impact are different. Because it's better to reduce by 1 the cost on every thing than 0 on only battle tactic in sister army...
New tyranids tier list please!
What I will say is that the Sisters NEEDED the points increases because if they didn't they were set to be busted, and even at these points, they still have a few noninteractive combos
What I’ve seen for Chaos Knights players is “faction got buffed as knights can walk through walls…..I’m still taking 13 war dogs”
AdMech, the only army to be happy about points increases.
I cheered when I saw red lol
Cries in Ynnari
Yep. One of the most nerfed 'factions' and utterly ignored in the vid.
@@Ezcendant we are being punished because GW doesn’t play test their indexes.
Just run triple raider, triple Ravager, triple kabalite warriors.
The deamon changes were amazing. Making them much stronger and overcoasted Be’lakor points can go else where.
Great summary (with relevant pictures), thank you so much!
Love indirect nerfs. Such an unfun skilless thing to play into
As a drukhari player I second this.
Death guard players have been crying because they cant camp any more
Death Guard player here. Changes happen, just have to adapt
@@gorthal1141 seems like you are the one crying based on your various comments tbh
Yeah I’m a guard player and I’m really happy that artillery has been placed into a support role rather than a primary damage dealer like it was previously. It terrible for the game when artillery can carry the damage output of your army.
Love the vid! Minor comment, u forgot the biovore change
It's amazing how GW managed to make the only Tau detachment that was above 50% winrate and the Tau detachment that was around 40% and flip the win rates. Who would have thought giving Retaliation Cadre lists about 200ish more points would make them insane. And who would have thought that nerfing kroot inadvertently and nerfing hammerheads would kill the kroot detachment. Not me, that's for sure.
Do you think you can you still play the Apothecary Biologis with Space Wolves? Or does that restriction apply to any apothecary?
Rules always interact with the keywords never with the unit name. So you just need to check if he has the keyword.
@@christiank7428 Right - I know that - what I mean is neither Apothecary Biologis, or Primaris Apothecary have the lone "apothecary" keyword - so just wondering if I'm being too literal or if "Apothecary Biologis" is the same keyword as "apothecary"....
IG got a new hype detachment tho
Actually having a faction rule for non-arty units is nice, yeah.
I’m loving it so far!
Nothing about how Space Wolves have a playable detachment now?
What? They've been top of the game for a little while now, the highest win rate and winning fuck loads of tournaments.
@@jacket2848 and now they have their own playable detachment, maybe making them even stronger, with permanent lethal hits or sustained hits, lance, more ap and many other things
Gsc not mentioned!?
First time?
We only get talked a lot when we win 😭
they increased size of impulsor and repulsor capacity so leader + 6 BGV can get in, but didnt give DG LR increased capacity so leader + 6 DST can get in, nor gave 5 man DST option. PBCs shouldve went down in points like guards indirect
Guard also lost their lethals, I’m pretty sure DG kept theirs
Yeah it's kinda made the Lord of Virulence's blight bombardment ability a good deal worse. Don't think it makes a massive difference though. Probably better for the game overall.
Tyranofex getting the damage buff is a big deal..
Absolutely stoked on the Bug changes.
Where are gsc with their codex nerf? Are they absent because nerf`s origin is from codex but not dataslate?
“Hive tyrants being relatively cheap” uh what are you smoking?
I laughed and cryed so hard at this.. I dont know what these youtube people are taking or if they need to crawl into gw butts so much... hive tyrant is so heavily overcosted.. its a joke
Nerfs? Sounds more like closing loopholes on shitty play or rules bending and angle shooting.
I dread the Imperial knight Lancer being setup just behind a terrain-wall only to burst through 2-3 ruins in its movement and then only having to roll 1 D6... o_o
Lancer is vastly less scary now though, its tank shock should do 1 more wound compared to a simple rhino, for example.
@@jacket2848 i Play Tau or Sisters...both of which dont really appreciate him getting all Close and Personal :( (or im Just Bad at Darling with him)
Would love to see a vanguard onslaught list 🙏
I think tau are going to be much better now. The change to bring it down benefits them the most out of any faction. The indirect nerf will help keep things like pathfinders and stealth teams alive longer for their spotting. I think retaliation cadre is going to a be one to look out for; a high skill level detachment that 100% has the legs to win GTs.
The bring it down change doesn't seem like a buff to Retaliation Cadre. It looks like killing a single crisis team gives you 4 vp every time you do it, and 6 if there is a commander in the squad
@@markhohenbrink5230 it’s 2 for a crisis team now. You just bring them with 14 wounds. It’s also a unit now, so if someone kill 2 crisis suits they get nothing instead of 4. It’s a massive change.
@davidjones4772 it still is 4 if you have a Commander in the squad, which you most likely will. Bringing them at 14 will make them less effective against dmg 2, which most factions can sling at them.
@@markhohenbrink5230My list gives away 22 on bring it down rather than the 36 it did before. I have to get tabled for someone to max bring it down now.
TSons got hit way harder than we'd like to admit, but we still have a steady supply of copium. This was one of the nicest nerfs we've had in 10th, and we even got some buffs too!
Pretty sure GW hates me and every other death guard main. We were pretty well balanced even with PBC's already being very overcosted. I guess yay that brigands are still 10 points cheaper than PBC's.
Yea, it’s a huge nerf…
The indirect nerf makes sense but PBC really should have come down to compensate. DG is probably dropping down to a 30-40% win rate again. Hoping the codex actually makes them an interesting faction to play.
@@seanalonzo9244 I wouldn’t mind it nearly as much if they made the entropy cannons good. Why not just make them lass cannons? Or Str 12? Why….? Why is their range 24”??!?
@@seanalonzo9244 I agree our winrate will plummet with indirect nerf combined with the loss of nurgling scoring and the points hikes to our two most important characters but I don't think the indirect nerf makes a lot of sense. At best our indirect was 3d6+9 shots per round at s8 ap 1 d2 hitting on 2's. That's good but not gamebreakingly good and lets not forget that to really pull that off you need 3 PBC's at 180 points each, a LoV at 80 points and Mortarion at 325 points.
This is also invalidating rules that we were paying a premium for with Mortarion and the LoV. There's really not much reason to bring either of those units now as morty is tough but his damage output is very meh for the points and the LoV now only provides ignore cover.
@@seanalonzo9244 You do realise there's still 17!! codices to release and only a likely 18-20 months window left to drop them all? (ie: unless GW suddenly starts moving to 4yr+ edition cycles, 11th will drop June 2026, meaning the 'final' 10th ed codex release window will likely be end of April 2026)
It's unlikely we get the "redacted" codex releasing in July due to the AoS 4.0 launch AND the total lack of any preview hype... maybe we might luck into the pre-order by late July? But guesstimating right now, we'll get the "Redacted" codex in August, maaaaaybe the BA launch box in Sept -> full release in Nov.
So from Jan 2025 through April 2026, that's roughly 16 months to push out 15 codices, with the June/July 2025 window likely being consumed by Horus Heresy 2nd edition.
Odds are, at least 3-4 armies are not getting a codex this edition, unless GW *really* picks up the release pace, while still putting out all the new AoS trash releases, etc...
Just a brief mention of the DA buffs, heresy!
Cult of speed is useless ork buggys are pathetic.
My poor necrons noooooo.
Honestly at this point....why even buy the Codex's? Like really...there is objectively no reason to buy codex's let alone the core rules book. Why would i continue to buy a product that i know for a fact its gonna get made irrelevant after a few months. Its bad enough the minis are overpriced beyond all reason but making your products useless is just downright insane.
GSC doesn't exist anymore
My only issue is that the Screamer Killer didn't get the Vanguard keyword. It most definitely should.
the... giant *screaming* carnifex that isn't remotely stealthy getting a stealth related keyword... hilarious as that is, its not happening lmao. it would be super funny to see though
@@ieatmarmalade1239
fluff =/= rules
Vanguard has nothing to do with stealth as it's rules let's things advance and charge, which if you look at the stats for Screamer Killer it desperately needs that ability to be viable.
@Doomshaper1 Advance and charge is great for stealth because things like to hide and then spring out at the opponent.
Fluff should absolutely match wherever possible. We have a Trygon now to fulfil the SK role.
sorry your comemnt is wrong, it seems like you have no clue about tyranid organisms.
idk what train of thought you think you had with this but you're wrong lmao. SK should not get that keyword. its not a vanguard organism.
Just got into this game, and the deciding factor to pick my faction (Death Guard) was because of plague-burst crawlers / the defensive style of play I was to expect. Now I have a full army that I'm not very excited to field. Hoping a codex might change that, or I just have some expensive plastic for my shelves.
You gotta keep in mind if your army is even fun to play against. Most people hate armies that just wanna sit back and shoot. I don't play certain armies anymore if it's not gonna be a real battle.
I've played since 5e... If you base your army on what's strong today only, you're going to have a rough time. Strength changes multiple times an edition now. Have to adapt
PBC's are mainly going to be hitting on 4's anyway. It's not a big deal. Outside of going with a very niche multiple Lord of Virulence army.
@@gorthal1141 Being a slow army that needs something dangerous at range due to our lack of mobility and lack of tankiness to compensate, is not the same as sitting back and shooting all game.
They shouldn’t print points in the book
They shouldn't print rules in the book either. Lore, art, and painting tips should be the focus there. Rules should be digital, preferably free.
@@LollipopKnight2 I agree. I'd buy the books just for the lore, the art and painting tips.
Add a comment...
I disagree with many things you said...😅
"Minor Nerf to Unending Swarm"? The name giving stratagem got nuked from orbit! 😤
Should be once per battle round imo
@@TheBluBrawler That would be fine! Could even be at a fixed step.
If they want to rework it, there are two better ways to do it in my opinion. 1. Replacement units can’t be targeted w the strat. Or 2. Where the replacement units can be brought in is dictated by objective control. I.e. control your home objective for your deployment zone. Control a majority of no man’s land objectives to open no man’s land and enemy objective for their deployment zone.
@@honey_badger1450 #2 Sounds cool and flavorful so I doubt GW would do something like that but #1 is quite reasonable considering that what they do in AoS 4 as well.
I agree. Kind of like pushing a front. Credit where credit is due, one of the other 40K content creators mentioned #2 in a video. Think it might have been mordian glory who runs an imperial guard focused channel. But GW will likely do #3 which is nothing this edition until they have some other faction that can run a horde list with a fresh new expensive kit they want people to buy.
It's cause of me trevvy using a valiant in my wolf jail list cause I didn't have a 2nd brutalis
The MOST buffed army?
what are you talking about?
Sorry, but this makes me so mad.. how can you even say that, how can you even think that, do you even know what we tyranids have been doing for the last year?
calm and collected answer:
considering all factors, tyranids are only very slight winners.
yes we finally get S10 (at least in melee) on some relevant units and can hand it out to some more relevant units. that is a big buff. we finally somewhat deal with normal tanks and terminators.
but people forget (or dont think about it, because it never happened yet) that we come into this update with one of the single biggest army nerfs in this update, being no longer able to easily and cheaply score turn 1 outside of vanguard invaders. But even with them, and starting from turn two we will still need a much larger point investment now dedicated to scoring, which in turn also makes us weaker on the battlefield yet again. And we know we were VERY weak on the battlefield before. (I love that 0OC scoring is gone, but we needed MASSIVE buffs to compensate)
Yes we are slightly stronger now, but not against every army, and we still cant deal with knights, daemon primarchs, ctan, landraiders or a simple leman russ in melee..
IF we had just gotten the new gamemode and no changes, Tyranids would have been the weakest army by far.
so If we start from a point without the buffs and no advantage in scoring from turn 1 and 2 of a generously 40% winrate, I think the strength buff will barely only get us up to 45% again..
couple these with extra feels bad nerfs to swarm, a defense nerf to invasion and redeploy nerf to invaders, with them only getting some QoL stuff. I dont think they win that much..
and when my army has been at around 45% for a year now, I was hoping for something massive, and while I wished for more strength, getting it with so many negatives added ontop doesn't feel that great honestly. especially when you see other cool army that are doing better already like daemons and tau getting love they deserve in exactly the right places where everything makes sense without any negatives. Heck astra militarum are arguably bigger winners here finally beeing able to play the game.
I wanted sweeping points drops accross the board to so many still heavily overcosted units, or some MAJOR strength increases on alot of monster profiles.. why a tiny ork saw is S12 and a massive Scythe twice their size is starting at S9 is beyond me...
and your comments about how good this is, creates a false narrative showing GW how good of a job they did, when they simply did not with tyranids..
they will simply end up at around 45%-47% again..
SOROITAS NOT REALLY NERFED????????? every one of my armies had an excess of over 400 points at the very least.......the castigators now have the same ability regardless of which gun you put on them and half of the abilities have been changed.........yup not nerfed just like how america isnt democracy
You don't realize how well you played yourself with that last line do you? But yes, Sisters got necessary nerfs. He didn't say they didn't. The points from the Codex were NEVER legal. The whole Codex only became legal WITH these points updates.
Orks got nerfed into the ground. War horde is the only real competitive detachment. Codex might as well get thrown in the trash.
All the ad mech players who spent 2k on their armies only to have a good chunk of them on the shelf now. Good, learn a hard lesson
What’s the lesson exactly? The annoying thing about it is if you only had 2k points of ad mech you then had to buy more units if you wanted to hit the points requirement. And now as you say they’re not needed. So the choice was either play with less units or buy more if you want to play at 2k, or just don’t play as mech until they’re balance is sorted out which I don’t think any of those are good choices really
Having more models gives you more flexibility how is a points hike a nerf? We wanted a points increase personally I dont think it was enough I can field 18 kataphrons 4 squads of vanguard 2 manippies and 2 dunecrawlers fir less than 1800 points thats freaking nuts considering the massive buff to our imperatives
@@stevencarmody1755 I think the points of 1835 aren't that crazy. Some testing would be important to see how things do. I am still a bit leery of dropping 385 per squad of Kataphron when they are somewhat glass cannons. I am hoping to see if some of our other detachments see play with these changes.
@Arkrouyle against orks at least I decimated 2 squads of 22 boys, smashed a battle wagon, and destroyed a 6 man mega nob in 2 turns and I wasn't even taking it seriously