Dump off triggers when you are declared as the target of a block, so if your runner is the target of a blitz with no other players marking it, it can dump off pass at 3+
I honestly always liked Juggernaut on Witch Elves (it works really well with Frenzy for crowd-surfing, especially once people start taking Stand Firm and Fend), it also works really well with Strip Ball by turning those Both Downs into Pushes
The easy access to strengh skills is a major change for Dark Elves, since that was their only real weakness. In my own experience, having one or two players with Mighty Blow and one or two with Guard, are always a big improvement for any DE team.
Yeah! I'm really excited for that to be an option! I think DE have a speed bump now when it comes to Passing, but the access to doubles is going to mean a really potent combat element!
I would rather switch it around, two Blodge Guard Site Step Blitzers at least and MB on a Witch. Take Juggernaut, Strip Ball on the other Witch. You can even pair that with Wrestle to make sure that ball comes out. Little update needed for Runners as they may throw the Dump-off, as soon as they are nominated as the target of a Blitz. Which is a cool way to keep the ball. Now having easy access to MB and Guard is going to make this team feel different. With this much access to guard, Defensive does become an interesting skill. Blodge Guard, Defensive Blitzer, just to tag onto a guarded corner and reverse the guard locally. This is were elves shine: create a point of superiority and punch a hole to get to do Elf stuff.
Surprised to not see any mention of Dirty Player and Sneaky Git for Dark Elf linemen. Sneaky Git allowing you to Foul with a much lower chance of being sent off (only doubles on Injury) AND allowing you to keep moving after fouling is a great ability to have. With access to both Ag and Gen skills, you can easily pick up this useful combo.
In fairness it’s an expensive fouler. So it wouldn’t be worth while to step on anyone that wasn’t a good positional otherwise you’re running the risk of losing an elf that otherwise could have been doing elf things.
I think there was an issue with how dump off was portrayed. The entry indicates that you make a pass when a blitz is DECLARED, not when it is already happening, so you can have a 3+ pass as it is made at the moment the opponent declares the blitz action, this is really good because A) you can get the pass on another positional 2 or 3 squares in front of the runner and B) your opponent wasted his blitz action and if the pass is successful there's very little an enemy coach can do to stop it. However, there's a C) getting a pass action without the risk of a turnover is kinda of a troll move that can't be interrupted by on the ball, and in case of failing the roll it won't be a turnover (since it itself requires the enemy to be having their turn). Page 49 says that you have to indicate the target of a blitz action BEFORE moving to it: When a player Blitzes, they may move as normal. In addition, they may perform a Block action (or a Special action granted by a Skill or Trait that can be performed instead of a Block action), the target of which must be nominated when the player is activated, before they have moved.
Hi Ben, I would like to know your considerations regarding the runners now that in the first FAQ the blitz action has been clarified (target has to be declared at the beginning of the action, before any dice roll). Dump off is to be used as soon as the handler gets nominated as the target. Viable again than, even if NOS is a PA skill and not a priority for receivers such Blitzers/Witches. Not only a Leader caddy so. Running rush game still very much effective
One dirty thing you can do with DE Runner is give him Wrestle. Dump-off to the player blitzing you (yes, pass on to the enemy) if close enough and if they catch the ball and get a both down result you can wrestle them down to cause a turnover. If they don't roll a both down but managed to catch the ball they're now potentially left with a player holding the ball in the middle of your guys and no way to pass the ball to someone else and probably without much if any movement left after the blitz.
Just throwing it out there, Fumblerooski is almost broken on dark elfs with universal 2+ pick ups, it’s essentially a second hand off in a single turn allowing to move the ball 23ish squares without risking a pass
On the topic of Frenzy and Stab, I think you can Block, compulsory follow-up and then Stab, but not the other way around (Stab-follow-Block). The Frenzy rules specify that you have to be able to follow-up to be able to do the second Block action (not just be adjacent to the target as I thought it was - maybe the rule changed from BB2016?). The Stab rules also specify that if performed as part of a Blitz, then you can't continue moving afterwards, which to me reads that you can't follow-up after a Stab in any case. Does that sound about right?
To be honest nothing has changed with dark elves. I might consider not bothering with the witches and just go with blitzes but they are useful to be the predatory ball chaser with strip ball and dauntless.
I'm a big fan of starting with 4 Blitzers - they're the most reliable for sure! But Witches are just straight up powerful positionals! Always tempting!
And also, Witches bring more character fluff into your team and gives it a real Dark Elf identity - while Blitzers barely make it look like... dark-coloured elves? (like Assassins do, but Assassins... well, harder to convince I guess...)
I like taking a runner, simply because it frees up the blitzers and witch elves to do the hitting stuff. And one skill I would definitely take, maybe as the second or third skill, would be Defensive. Why? Because with Defensive the opponents can NEVER get that Guard-assist in! It negates Guard in the opponents turn only, which to me means that you want it on a player that your opponent will want to hit. And who more than a ball carrier? LIke you said, Dump-off is very situational and often a trap. The main strength of the runner is that it is another MA7 piece, with Passing access. If I had two runners I would be tempted to get Dodge and then save up for a stat-roll. After all, they can use every stat up! Although I would think twice of actually taking a ST up, on any player, simply because it is so prohibitively expensive!
btw off topic does anyone know why there were no team cards available for the Black Orc and Imperial Nobility teams featured in the Blood Bowl 2020 boxed set ? are we expected to just use the BB2016 Orc Team Card for the orcs ? the BB2016 Old World Alliance Team card pack doesn't even match the BB2016 Imperial Nobility BB2020 team in terms of unit types and art work, right ???
The cards were always optional and so far have not made a return for 2020. Seeing that many people like having reference cards they might, but I wouldn't count on it.
I have a question ive been looking at the dark elf assassin and wondering if he now earns SSP from a stab if he makes a cas in previous editions he couldnt earn SPP by stabbing but Im now not sure if anyone knows for the 2020 edition
Don't know why {{Witch Elves}} but when i first played Blood Bowl 2, Dark Elves instantly won me over. And in Fantasy settings, I'm usually an FYH, Human Paladin style player. But yeah. Dark Elves 'til I die.
assassin needs jump up if they go down they can get up and stab again id go jump up and block and then dodge so they are hard to get over and when you do they are stabbing again next turn and stab every turn you can do it first action ,even if you fail its not a turn over so id go jump up block dodge tackle the rest id go for stat boost ive not got my new rules but i presume you can still get jump up and both stab and jump up work like before
I think the dark elf runner is the biggest loser of blood Bowl 2020. I really don't see why he did not get pass 2+. To me the (relatively) slow dark elfs need a pass game more than say wood elves. Passing with dump off was never great but now it is simply no option at all. To be clear I certainly don't think dark elves got bad. They just got a little more boring because the option of a runner based game got nerved so hard.
Leader, Nerves of Steel, Dodge, Block, Pass. I think he's still a great player, even if he becomes just a 5th Blitzer. Starting team: 4x blitzers, 6x linemen, 1x runner, 2 re-rolls. Then just save up for an apothecary and both witch elves.
Honestly not a big change overall. It was always a bad decision to include a runner (and Assassin), to any DE roster, as it adds more AV7 (now AV 8+). Now beeing nerfed even further, there is no point in including him. Only exception are NAF-style tournament rosters as "Leader-reroll"-slave. Just go 4 Blitzer and slowly add WE (and protect them). As standard DE play was never throw-based, it shouldnt change much, overall just tiny bit less interesting to play, less variants rosters and not as good for desperate plays.
It is still possible to develop an effective short passing game with DE, but replacing Dump-off with the new skill "Safe pair of hands" (equivalent to "Side step" for the ball) would be a much better design choice imo.
![[Live สด] การออกรางวัลสลากกินแบ่งรัฐบาล งวดวันที่ 16 ธันวาคม 2567](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/dNTiBBthKgQ/mqdefault.jpg)
Dump off triggers when you are declared as the target of a block, so if your runner is the target of a blitz with no other players marking it, it can dump off pass at 3+
I came to the comments to say this aswell
That scenario is only likely for high ST blockers blitzing you. Anyone else will likely try to get an assist in place before blitzing...
I honestly always liked Juggernaut on Witch Elves (it works really well with Frenzy for crowd-surfing, especially once people start taking Stand Firm and Fend), it also works really well with Strip Ball by turning those Both Downs into Pushes
Ooh! Never considered the Juggernaut Strip Ball synergy before, neat!
Yes! Juodas! I love that!!
No mention of a juggernaut witch? Also combos well with strip ball.
I can't be the only one that chuckled at "Ball Sacker" xD
Hahaha, I'm glad someone picked up on that!!
The easy access to strengh skills is a major change for Dark Elves, since that was their only real weakness. In my own experience, having one or two players with Mighty Blow and one or two with Guard, are always a big improvement for any DE team.
Yeah! I'm really excited for that to be an option! I think DE have a speed bump now when it comes to Passing, but the access to doubles is going to mean a really potent combat element!
I would rather switch it around, two Blodge Guard Site Step Blitzers at least and MB on a Witch.
Take Juggernaut, Strip Ball on the other Witch. You can even pair that with Wrestle to make sure that ball comes out.
Little update needed for Runners as they may throw the Dump-off, as soon as they are nominated as the target of a Blitz. Which is a cool way to keep the ball.
Now having easy access to MB and Guard is going to make this team feel different.
With this much access to guard, Defensive does become an interesting skill.
Blodge Guard, Defensive Blitzer, just to tag onto a guarded corner and reverse the guard locally.
This is were elves shine: create a point of superiority and punch a hole to get to do Elf stuff.
Surprised to not see any mention of Dirty Player and Sneaky Git for Dark Elf linemen. Sneaky Git allowing you to Foul with a much lower chance of being sent off (only doubles on Injury) AND allowing you to keep moving after fouling is a great ability to have. With access to both Ag and Gen skills, you can easily pick up this useful combo.
In fairness it’s an expensive fouler. So it wouldn’t be worth while to step on anyone that wasn’t a good positional otherwise you’re running the risk of losing an elf that otherwise could have been doing elf things.
Hi all....dodge and guard on your blitzers also helps with rerolls as well
I think there was an issue with how dump off was portrayed. The entry indicates that you make a pass when a blitz is DECLARED, not when it is already happening, so you can have a 3+ pass as it is made at the moment the opponent declares the blitz action, this is really good because A) you can get the pass on another positional 2 or 3 squares in front of the runner and B) your opponent wasted his blitz action and if the pass is successful there's very little an enemy coach can do to stop it. However, there's a C) getting a pass action without the risk of a turnover is kinda of a troll move that can't be interrupted by on the ball, and in case of failing the roll it won't be a turnover (since it itself requires the enemy to be having their turn).
Page 49 says that you have to indicate the target of a blitz action BEFORE moving to it:
When a player Blitzes, they may move as normal. In addition, they may perform a Block action (or a Special action granted by a Skill or Trait that can be performed instead of a Block action), the target of which must be nominated when the player is activated, before they have moved.
Hi Ben, I would like to know your considerations regarding the runners now that in the first FAQ the blitz action has been clarified (target has to be declared at the beginning of the action, before any dice roll). Dump off is to be used as soon as the handler gets nominated as the target. Viable again than, even if NOS is a PA skill and not a priority for receivers such Blitzers/Witches.
Not only a Leader caddy so. Running rush game still very much effective
Hey Ivan! It's a great change for the Runner!
It's still a skill you never want to use, but it'll definitely help every now and again!
One dirty thing you can do with DE Runner is give him Wrestle. Dump-off to the player blitzing you (yes, pass on to the enemy) if close enough and if they catch the ball and get a both down result you can wrestle them down to cause a turnover. If they don't roll a both down but managed to catch the ball they're now potentially left with a player holding the ball in the middle of your guys and no way to pass the ball to someone else and probably without much if any movement left after the blitz.
Enjoyed the vid and love the backdrop. Keep up the good work bud.
Thanks Roll Corruption! Appreciate it :D
Just throwing it out there, Fumblerooski is almost broken on dark elfs with universal 2+ pick ups, it’s essentially a second hand off in a single turn allowing to move the ball 23ish squares without risking a pass
How about Leap for the Assassin? Might be quite a cage breaker, at least until he dies.
On the topic of Frenzy and Stab, I think you can Block, compulsory follow-up and then Stab, but not the other way around (Stab-follow-Block). The Frenzy rules specify that you have to be able to follow-up to be able to do the second Block action (not just be adjacent to the target as I thought it was - maybe the rule changed from BB2016?). The Stab rules also specify that if performed as part of a Blitz, then you can't continue moving afterwards, which to me reads that you can't follow-up after a Stab in any case.
Does that sound about right?
I think you're right! Block, follow, then Stab if the odds are bad!
To be honest nothing has changed with dark elves. I might consider not bothering with the witches and just go with blitzes but they are useful to be the predatory ball chaser with strip ball and dauntless.
I'm a big fan of starting with 4 Blitzers - they're the most reliable for sure! But Witches are just straight up powerful positionals! Always tempting!
And also, Witches bring more character fluff into your team and gives it a real Dark Elf identity - while Blitzers barely make it look like... dark-coloured elves?
(like Assassins do, but Assassins... well, harder to convince I guess...)
Do you have skaven version of this video?
I like taking a runner, simply because it frees up the blitzers and witch elves to do the hitting stuff. And one skill I would definitely take, maybe as the second or third skill, would be Defensive. Why? Because with Defensive the opponents can NEVER get that Guard-assist in! It negates Guard in the opponents turn only, which to me means that you want it on a player that your opponent will want to hit. And who more than a ball carrier?
LIke you said, Dump-off is very situational and often a trap. The main strength of the runner is that it is another MA7 piece, with Passing access. If I had two runners I would be tempted to get Dodge and then save up for a stat-roll. After all, they can use every stat up!
Although I would think twice of actually taking a ST up, on any player, simply because it is so prohibitively expensive!
btw off topic does anyone know why there were no team cards available for the Black Orc and Imperial Nobility teams featured in the Blood Bowl 2020 boxed set ? are we expected to just use the BB2016 Orc Team Card for the orcs ? the BB2016 Old World Alliance Team card pack doesn't even match the BB2016 Imperial Nobility BB2020 team in terms of unit types and art work, right ???
The cards were always optional and so far have not made a return for 2020. Seeing that many people like having reference cards they might, but I wouldn't count on it.
@@tobiasboh3370 so which existing BB2016 cards match the BB2020 Imperial Nobility humans in terms of artwork and name ?? anyone know?
Yeah, I haven't seen even hints at reference cards for the players from the box set!
I have a question
ive been looking at the dark elf assassin
and wondering if he now earns SSP from a stab if he makes a cas
in previous editions he couldnt earn SPP by stabbing
but Im now not sure
if anyone knows for the 2020 edition
dump off activates before you get blocked now, so it's still a 3+ pass
Don't know why {{Witch Elves}} but when i first played Blood Bowl 2, Dark Elves instantly won me over. And in Fantasy settings, I'm usually an FYH, Human Paladin style player. But yeah. Dark Elves 'til I die.
Love it.
Thanks Konrad!
assassin needs jump up if they go down they can get up and stab again
id go jump up and block and then dodge so they are hard to get over and when you do they are stabbing again next turn
and stab every turn you can do it first action ,even if you fail its not a turn over
so id go
jump up
block
dodge
tackle
the rest id go for stat boost
ive not got my new rules but i presume you can still get jump up and both stab and jump up work like before
I love this Dark Zim, you've just got to hope they can get back up again at all haha!
Think bb2020 need defensive on the lineman 😏
Great shout Patryk!
I think the dark elf runner is the biggest loser of blood Bowl 2020. I really don't see why he did not get pass 2+. To me the (relatively) slow dark elfs need a pass game more than say wood elves. Passing with dump off was never great but now it is simply no option at all.
To be clear I certainly don't think dark elves got bad. They just got a little more boring because the option of a runner based game got nerved so hard.
Leader, Nerves of Steel, Dodge, Block, Pass. I think he's still a great player, even if he becomes just a 5th Blitzer.
Starting team: 4x blitzers, 6x linemen, 1x runner, 2 re-rolls. Then just save up for an apothecary and both witch elves.
@@karlff7 yeah sure I am just sad dark elves got a little less varied.
Honestly not a big change overall. It was always a bad decision to include a runner (and Assassin), to any DE roster, as it adds more AV7 (now AV 8+). Now beeing nerfed even further, there is no point in including him. Only exception are NAF-style tournament rosters as "Leader-reroll"-slave. Just go 4 Blitzer and slowly add WE (and protect them). As standard DE play was never throw-based, it shouldnt change much, overall just tiny bit less interesting to play, less variants rosters and not as good for desperate plays.
It is still possible to develop an effective short passing game with DE, but replacing Dump-off with the new skill "Safe pair of hands" (equivalent to "Side step" for the ball) would be a much better design choice imo.
Yeah I think you're right here Tim! Adding NoS on top of Dump-Off would have been interesting though!