What a fantastic role model Ella is. Incredibly humble but she is exactly who my daughter should look up to. Great to hear she’s giving back and opening kid’s eyes to engineering. Brilliant. Articles for the app please as I’m sure she has many ideas.
You guys are completely right. 500 kg (1,100 lbs) is an insane amount of weight, even for an 18 kWh battery and 150 odd hp. For instance, there’s an electric dirtbike called the Stark Varg. 7 kwh battery, 80 hp. Total drivetrain weighs about 60 kg. 2 of them would weigh 120 kg and have about the same power and kwh as the new m5 drivetrain. How they quadrupled that weight I am baffled.
Ella was the best guest I’ve heard on a podcast full stop. What an excellent addition. I’m going to rewatch this with my 9 year old daughter later - our young ladies need to see real ladies doing real work.
Yep, that Alpina Touring is a lot more practical, it's power delivery is smoother , ride better and it goobles up miles like nothing it's a cruise machine not a track machine like the M5 supposedly is . I think it has a greater top speed as well than the M5 but I couldn't be wrong there .
Great bit from Ella at the end. I am engineer and I don't think schools promote apprenticeships as much as they should, a great way of getting into engineering!
This is the best discussion I have seen thus far about the M5. I actually think these might sell reasonably well, especially the Touring. The kinds of people who can afford them likely have other "fun" cars in their garage that provide a more engaging drive. For others, I think this is just for the modern BMW buyer, and that is who BMW is catering to. These people chase horsepower and torque numbers, the latest tech (your car sprays cologne in your face) and 0-60 times. For these people, the M5 will provide bragging rights. But I think there is another buyer out there who BMW is ignoring at its peril. The real enthusiast, some of whom can afford multiple high end cars, and others who can afford maybe a daily and then a special car. BMW is no longer the most engaging car to drive in its class across its line up. You're going to see people hold on to their older M5s, or maybe ditch them eventually and go to two cars, one a practical daily, and the other a pure weekend car. Neither would need to be a BMW. For me personally, my daily is currently a Giulia QV, and it will transition into a weekend car for longevity purposes shortly. At that point my all-weather commuter will be a 2023 M550i and my family car a Subaru Outback. There is simply no room in my garage for a BMW. They aren't fun. They're too expensive and luxurious for it to be worth it to have my messy toddlers in the back, that's what the Subaru is for. For longer solo commutes a used M550i will be more than enough. And for fun I'll have the Giulia. BMW doesn't make cars for me anymore and that's a shame.
I think the M5 is a good successor to the F90 looks beefy, enormous performance, S68 and all the tech... when it could have easily been i5M🤮, instead. All M5's have been heavy; I think we should collectively be thankful BMW kept it ICE.
Great take guys. Chris Harris recently said for the new M2, that you can't feel the weight driving it and that it drives better than the previous M2 (i personally doubt it drives better than the M2 CS but to each their own, i haven't driven or owned either). But i have a problem with this take - be that as it may, even if it feels light and you can't feel the weight, one cannot cheat physics. Things will wear out faster as a consequence of more mass being anchored - tires, brake pads, brake discs, suspension components like shocks and springs, bushings, anti-roll bars, rods etc. One cannot ignore physics.
The government needs to regulate car weights as heavier cars will damage the roads more. I think they should cap weights according to vehicle type somehow
I guess damaged roads are a big thing in the UK, not so in Germany or Austria… as long as you have thousands of lorries driving, we shouldn’t worry about the cars
Playing with materials is great fun, spent a few years testing CFRP, a good basis for my accidental stress engineer career. Think one of the benefits of graphene will be in smart materials, so allowing the structure to have secondary capabilities
An 18kwh battery pack is small in size and weight compared to some full on BEVs that have a 93kwh pack and they are still lighter than this monstrosity. I've no idea how it's so heavy. It needs at least another 100hp on top to offset that extra weight...
I think the majority of people are happy how this M5 turned out… the numbers will tell us the truth and I think that for several reasons, this will be the best selling M5 ever built…
If u look at the new and old one side by side the new one makes the old one look like a tiny little M Lite. I love the widebody look of the new one. It's a freakn beast
The new M5 is interesting, great engineering but just too damn heavy, it's become proper heavyweight. I actually really love the muscular looks. And definitely great to her from your McLaren automotive guest
I owned 2 M5s including the M5 CS and M8 coupe. I now have a cayenne turbo gt as my daily and I am very disappointed with the new M5 given the stats. Porsche is doing hybrid with much less weight.
Thank You gents for interesting talk. Regarding M5 its very surprising when You drive it. Increased weight you feel during breaking ( it breaks well but still you feel those kgs ) besides this, you feel that it is grown in size, and this is a bigger issue. But as a whole package it's really, really interesting and price is an banger. If I'm not mistaken, it's cheaper than c63 and c63 is total crap compared to m5.
I reckon it's going to take at least 2 to 3 generations of model evolutions before they return vehicle weights to pre electricification levels. And even then, ICE cars were already trending upwards with ever increasing safety legislation.
Gentlemen, I am sold. However, there is something I'm even more committed to: spending less time on my devices and the internet. I'd pay for a traditional magazine - are there plans along these lines or is evo my only option?
Because you don't just add a battery. You have to add the engineering to ensure the hybrid system doesn't become a problem during an accident. I'm still shocked why everyone is up in arms about the weight.
I think, having a D3S as a fun daily commuter car, it’s still not an ideal country road or car you take on a road trip (get something more focused for that job). You want it to smash the daily and most peoples commutes are stuck in traffic most of the time anyway. Every so often though, you’ll get to open it up and stretch its legs and that’s when those HP figures come in to play. The range and comfort is the appeal to me, and when you want to head long distance you’ve got decent donkey there and not held back by an electric range. It weights the same as an electric car but without the draw backs and does the commute without bashing the engine or coating a fortune like an M3 Touring would. My two cents but I think there’s more appeal in this than an F10 type car (which depreciated like mad if you’ve forgotten already). It’s unfortunately the times we live in…
I just find it funny how Mercedes produces the new C63S E-Performance and the AMG GT63S E-Performance which have way smaller batteries that only give 8-10 miles of range and no one bats an eye on the weight but as soon as the M5’s figures comes out everyone is up in rage…. Granted Mercedes can’t sell both because one is a 4 cylinder and one is overpriced (I would know because I work at a Mercedes dealer) but I think we should keep the same energy with the other brands.
3:35 I think you missed the point. It has re-written the rulebook. It’s just didn’t re-write the piece you wanted: This is an M5 you can daily without a gigantic fuel bill. That’s a major improvement.
The thing is with the heavy weight comes excessive wear on tyres brakes etc which isnt great for the environment, give me light weight and reasonably good powered car any day of the week
When the new M3 and M4 came out, all the “car journalist” complained and carried on about the weight of the car before they even drove it. Now those same people can’t stop raving how good the car is. Cars are getting heavier, it’s just the way things are. Give it a rest already
@ it’s weight that’s the big issue here rather than just size, and that’s been driven by govt legislation. Having forced everyone in to massive machines it’s a bit of an arms race now, and yes quite hard to stick your kids in something small and light in that context. Awful nanny state nonsense generating loads of unforeseen consequences. Again.
You can buy two of those in my eyes great M5s for the price of one M5 CS in some parts of Europe… I guess that’s why this new M5 will be the best selling M5 ever built
@harryspeakup8452 The hybrid part on the M5 is the only thing adding performance and the Alpina will not be allowed to compete with it on power. So I think its reasonable to assume the Alpina B5 will have a non-hybrid V8 or the Straight Six powertrain from the M3.
Spending first 3 minutes of the video trying to sell us something is just crazy. My friend cant stand it and stopped subscribing. If we are already consuming your product for 44 minutes, why you need to force feed us more? At the front of every video. Makes no sense.
Think your rant regaerding weight is completely out of touch, when you have not driven it and then you.say the car was wonderful but not fun, when you say you wont be putting it into rear wheel and doing skids, last time.i checked thats illegal on public roads, so your comments are just infuriating and wrong. Max.is a dirty driver and so glad he good his cumuppance.of 20s penalties!
What a fantastic role model Ella is. Incredibly humble but she is exactly who my daughter should look up to. Great to hear she’s giving back and opening kid’s eyes to engineering. Brilliant. Articles for the app please as I’m sure she has many ideas.
What a lovely, bubbly person Ella is. With people like her, our auto industry looks to be in good hands for the foreseeable.
What does bubbly mean? She seems like a chav
Andrew’s intake of breath about the weight gain around 4 minutes is brilliant!
A super interview with Ella, thank you
Not a fan of the British subtlety and beating around the bush. They should simply tear BMW a new one for this. It's ridiculous.
@@sysakPL the carmudgeon podcast is there for that lol
You guys are completely right. 500 kg (1,100 lbs) is an insane amount of weight, even for an 18 kWh battery and 150 odd hp.
For instance, there’s an electric dirtbike called the Stark Varg. 7 kwh battery, 80 hp. Total drivetrain weighs about 60 kg. 2 of them would weigh 120 kg and have about the same power and kwh as the new m5 drivetrain. How they quadrupled that weight I am baffled.
I am sure the engineers of BMW are complete idiots 😂
It’s a bigger car too and that means bigger brakes.. more tire.
@ heavier suspension, heavier axles, more wear, more pollution.
Ella was the best guest I’ve heard on a podcast full stop. What an excellent addition.
I’m going to rewatch this with my 9 year old daughter later - our young ladies need to see real ladies doing real work.
For me, I’d rather a 2 year old Alpina B5 touring than a new M5. But that’s just me.
That’s why I recently bought an m5 cs
Yep, that Alpina Touring is a lot more practical, it's power delivery is smoother , ride better and it goobles up
miles like nothing it's a cruise machine not a track machine like the M5 supposedly is .
I think it has a greater top speed as well than the M5 but I couldn't be wrong there .
Great bit from Ella at the end. I am engineer and I don't think schools promote apprenticeships as much as they should, a great way of getting into engineering!
Bet the real world MPG of this thing is terrible as well.
Great interwview and discussion, 100% right about BMW M5 and not only this BMW, I think at least the M2 is far too heavy as well.
This is the best discussion I have seen thus far about the M5. I actually think these might sell reasonably well, especially the Touring. The kinds of people who can afford them likely have other "fun" cars in their garage that provide a more engaging drive. For others, I think this is just for the modern BMW buyer, and that is who BMW is catering to. These people chase horsepower and torque numbers, the latest tech (your car sprays cologne in your face) and 0-60 times. For these people, the M5 will provide bragging rights.
But I think there is another buyer out there who BMW is ignoring at its peril. The real enthusiast, some of whom can afford multiple high end cars, and others who can afford maybe a daily and then a special car. BMW is no longer the most engaging car to drive in its class across its line up. You're going to see people hold on to their older M5s, or maybe ditch them eventually and go to two cars, one a practical daily, and the other a pure weekend car. Neither would need to be a BMW. For me personally, my daily is currently a Giulia QV, and it will transition into a weekend car for longevity purposes shortly. At that point my all-weather commuter will be a 2023 M550i and my family car a Subaru Outback. There is simply no room in my garage for a BMW. They aren't fun. They're too expensive and luxurious for it to be worth it to have my messy toddlers in the back, that's what the Subaru is for. For longer solo commutes a used M550i will be more than enough. And for fun I'll have the Giulia. BMW doesn't make cars for me anymore and that's a shame.
I think the M5 is a good successor to the F90 looks beefy, enormous performance, S68 and all the tech... when it could have easily been i5M🤮, instead. All M5's have been heavy; I think we should collectively be thankful BMW kept it ICE.
Great take guys.
Chris Harris recently said for the new M2, that you can't feel the weight driving it and that it drives better than the previous M2 (i personally doubt it drives better than the M2 CS but to each their own, i haven't driven or owned either).
But i have a problem with this take - be that as it may, even if it feels light and you can't feel the weight, one cannot cheat physics.
Things will wear out faster as a consequence of more mass being anchored - tires, brake pads, brake discs, suspension components like shocks and springs, bushings, anti-roll bars, rods etc.
One cannot ignore physics.
Love This Show, Great format Gents keep up the Great Work.
The government needs to regulate car weights as heavier cars will damage the roads more. I think they should cap weights according to vehicle type somehow
I guess damaged roads are a big thing in the UK, not so in Germany or Austria… as long as you have thousands of lorries driving, we shouldn’t worry about the cars
Playing with materials is great fun, spent a few years testing CFRP, a good basis for my accidental stress engineer career. Think one of the benefits of graphene will be in smart materials, so allowing the structure to have secondary capabilities
Head to Head BMW M5 G90 Vs Its key competitors review ❤😊😊
Congrats to Ella on her MBE🎉. I wish I'd stayed in Metallurgy , but unfortunately it was a dying trade in the early 90s in this country. 😢😢
An 18kwh battery pack is small in size and weight compared to some full on BEVs that have a 93kwh pack and they are still lighter than this monstrosity. I've no idea how it's so heavy. It needs at least another 100hp on top to offset that extra weight...
I think the majority of people are happy how this M5 turned out… the numbers will tell us the truth and I think that for several reasons, this will be the best selling M5 ever built…
So Is nobody going to mention the looks of the new M5? 👀
It's ugly like most new bmws oh well
@@TwoDollarGararge No it's not ugly , the front isn't too good to look at but the back is nice .
@@gregorygant4242I find it the best front they have ever had on a 5 series 😅🤷🏽♂️
That’s how different we all are I guess
If u look at the new and old one side by side the new one makes the old one look like a tiny little M Lite. I love the widebody look of the new one. It's a freakn beast
@ same for me yes, I love it
Recent subscriber here and would thoroughly recommend. Keep up the great work folks!
The new M5 is interesting, great engineering but just too damn heavy, it's become proper heavyweight.
I actually really love the muscular looks.
And definitely great to her from your McLaren automotive guest
BMW is rehashing unused (and ugly) XM hardware on the M5, hence the big battery and the EV range.
Yes the m5 is a heavy barge that's the era we live in we live in a era where a light weight sports car weighs more than a sedan 20 years ago.
Not true sports cars like Lotus. Porkers are ..... well porkers now.
They are also twice as big nowadays, which I personally like
@Planeandcars1980 I don't "sports cars" are now just fat GT's if I want a gt I'll get a GT.
@@TwoDollarGararge there are still plenty of good sports cars, for me the M5 was never a sports car, it always was a daddies sedan or touring
Very interesting interview with Ella.
I owned 2 M5s including the M5 CS and M8 coupe. I now have a cayenne turbo gt as my daily and I am very disappointed with the new M5 given the stats. Porsche is doing hybrid with much less weight.
Yes Porsche seem on it, bringing back the V8 in the Cayenne S and sensible hybrid. New t-hybrid GTS only gaining a small amount in weight
Thank You gents for interesting talk. Regarding M5 its very surprising when You drive it. Increased weight you feel during breaking ( it breaks well but still you feel those kgs ) besides this, you feel that it is grown in size, and this is a bigger issue. But as a whole package it's really, really interesting and price is an banger. If I'm not mistaken, it's cheaper than c63 and c63 is total crap compared to m5.
I reckon it's going to take at least 2 to 3 generations of model evolutions before they return vehicle weights to pre electricification levels. And even then, ICE cars were already trending upwards with ever increasing safety legislation.
Gentlemen, I am sold. However, there is something I'm even more committed to: spending less time on my devices and the internet. I'd pay for a traditional magazine - are there plans along these lines or is evo my only option?
More Pod from Podmore 😊
T.50 it´s almost 3 times less weight... Who wants to have this new M5 for a future classic? Nobody
Because you don't just add a battery. You have to add the engineering to ensure the hybrid system doesn't become a problem during an accident. I'm still shocked why everyone is up in arms about the weight.
I think, having a D3S as a fun daily commuter car, it’s still not an ideal country road or car you take on a road trip (get something more focused for that job). You want it to smash the daily and most peoples commutes are stuck in traffic most of the time anyway. Every so often though, you’ll get to open it up and stretch its legs and that’s when those HP figures come in to play. The range and comfort is the appeal to me, and when you want to head long distance you’ve got decent donkey there and not held back by an electric range. It weights the same as an electric car but without the draw backs and does the commute without bashing the engine or coating a fortune like an M3 Touring would. My two cents but I think there’s more appeal in this than an F10 type car (which depreciated like mad if you’ve forgotten already). It’s unfortunately the times we live in…
I just find it funny how Mercedes produces the new C63S E-Performance and the AMG GT63S E-Performance which have way smaller batteries that only give 8-10 miles of range and no one bats an eye on the weight but as soon as the M5’s figures comes out everyone is up in rage…. Granted Mercedes can’t sell both because one is a 4 cylinder and one is overpriced (I would know because I work at a Mercedes dealer) but I think we should keep the same energy with the other brands.
I can tell you that this will be the best selling M5 so far
The weight inefficiency indicates BMW do not have best in class electrification technology. It's a new car with old electrification technology
3:35 I think you missed the point. It has re-written the rulebook. It’s just didn’t re-write the piece you wanted:
This is an M5 you can daily without a gigantic fuel bill.
That’s a major improvement.
When the M5 weighs within a couple dozen pounds of a Model X Plaid, and more than a Chevy Suburban, the weight doesn't make any sense.
The thing is with the heavy weight comes excessive wear on tyres brakes etc which isnt great for the environment, give me light weight and reasonably good powered car any day of the week
When the new M3 and M4 came out, all the “car journalist” complained and carried on about the weight of the car before they even drove it. Now those same people can’t stop raving how good the car is. Cars are getting heavier, it’s just the way things are. Give it a rest already
9:38 Lucid Air Sapphire
Why for Christ sakes don’t the manufacturers start building smaller lighter cars with fuel efficient petrol engines, this is what people want!
Because of governments.
Because no one wants smaller cars, every wants luxury nowadays, that comes with the price that cars are getting bigger and heavier.
@@Cars-k8e it’s fundamentally been driven by legislation more than customer demand.
@ who wants to have a small car like they have been in the 80s, 90’s and in the beginning of the 2000’s?
@ it’s weight that’s the big issue here rather than just size, and that’s been driven by govt legislation. Having forced everyone in to massive machines it’s a bit of an arms race now, and yes quite hard to stick your kids in something small and light in that context. Awful nanny state nonsense generating loads of unforeseen consequences. Again.
I like TH-cam, I like this channel but I already pay for TH-cam premium and the price has gone up.
The pod/vodcast is free.
listen to it free on any podcast platform
Give me a late M5C over this gigantic overweight parody of an M5
You can buy two of those in my eyes great M5s for the price of one M5 CS in some parts of Europe… I guess that’s why this new M5 will be the best selling M5 ever built
Every review i saw was definetely possitive...suprising.
Ella was great
I wonder if the next Alpina B5 will have the V8 without the hybrid gubbins.
Absolutely no chance, given that Alpina no longer has independence from BMW
@harryspeakup8452 The hybrid part on the M5 is the only thing adding performance and the Alpina will not be allowed to compete with it on power. So I think its reasonable to assume the Alpina B5 will have a non-hybrid V8 or the Straight Six powertrain from the M3.
New M5 officially an M8 does NOT deserve M5 badge
Not only is it heavy it's the size of a bus. Somewhat disappointing this New World we're heading into.
Lando story got old quick....
Can McLaren make a car wing that doesn't rust maybe, like my VW Golf?
The M5 made by politics...
Woke! No thanks.
Spending first 3 minutes of the video trying to sell us something is just crazy. My friend cant stand it and stopped subscribing. If we are already consuming your product for 44 minutes, why you need to force feed us more? At the front of every video. Makes no sense.
Just skip ahead like everyone else
@ ofcourse I do, but maybe they need to know that everyone else is skipping too. Or if they are not skipping they oeft the channel for good.
How entitled of you to expect people do make free long form content for you without also doing a quick upsell to those interested ! 😮
@ content? They are filming talking. Get subs, get wealthy.
Think your rant regaerding weight is completely out of touch, when you have not driven it and then you.say the car was wonderful but not fun, when you say you wont be putting it into rear wheel and doing skids, last time.i checked thats illegal on public roads, so your comments are just infuriating and wrong. Max.is a dirty driver and so glad he good his cumuppance.of 20s penalties!
Dan has driven it though......
All this in the name of nut zero 🤡