Short answer=greater air density because of lower temperature. Density creates pressure. Richard, i think you're like the engine information messiah. No other person in history has documented the amount of research you have, then freely shared it will the public. I'm a BIG fan. Keep it up!👍
I feel like this is on the right track but not completely accurate. Density does not create pressure. If this were true then your tires would gain pressure in the winter time instead of loosing pressure. Instead, density creates a resistance to compression. Denser particals are harder to compress. And since boost is essentially a measure of the resistance of air compressing in the manifold. Boost goes up with the colder air. Just my thoughts.
@@ProfessorCsATVs would be a good idea to meter pressure right after the compressor, before the intercooler, after the intercooler, and just before the throttle to get a more detailed spectrum of data.
Density Ratio increased because colder air has more molecules of air per cubic inch than warmer air. Gale Banks has been preaching this for a while: "the boost gauge is dead" he says! Density Ratio is the key! Imagine what the loss would have been with No charge cooler at all, Yikes! You would have power loss, then found the evil detonation/Pre-Ignition threshold ! Great subject! Thanks Richard
Charge air was more dense, increasing mass flow through the system, allowing the turbine to make more power (due to higher enthalpy in the exhaust) to drive the compressor to higher boost pressure. Then when the engine reached 14.0 psi at 6100 rpm, the wastegate became active because the boost setpoint was reached, then boost pressure bled down to be equal to the ambient water data by 6500 rpm. Increase in charge temperature throughout the power sweep is probably inevitable. Because the boost pressure was rising with increasing speed, the compressor discharge temperature would have been increasing, too. The intercooler effectiveness was probably higher at the higher temperature. If the boost pressure had stabilized at 14.0 psi by 3000 rpm, the charge temperature would have been more stable, but higher.
If the air temperature stayed the same boost wouldn't change. You are half right. The boost increase was do to the temp increase. The ice water had a bigger difference from 50 to what it went up to. Having more dense air then heating it the air expands.
Like Gale Banks said. The boost Guage is dead, MAD or manifold air density, it tells us airflow instead of resistance which is what boost is. Past SC truck. Stock motor was 16/18 psi. Ported and polished from throttle body to even header flange. Psi dropped to 9 to 12 but Horsepower jumped by 72 rwhp
Exactly. Boost means nothing without a map sensor. Best time to run a turbo car is a foggy frosty night here in England 🥶 the air is so thick you can cut it with a knife
Am I the only one amazed by the power and marketability of what's going on here? Richard is taking used engines with tens of thousands of miles and turning them into drag racing motors! Correct me if I'm wrong, 90% of the stuff is used parts! Stuff he has bought at the junkyard at a fraction of the price new. Making HP numbers north of 500 NA and then doubling, sometimes tripling HP numbers boosted! All with 80-90% used parts?
It's also a testament to how reliable these modern GM engines are as well. They are very well designed. More cost affective for guys to use junkyard blocks and build on top of them, than it is to do a complete build. Not just the LS engines, but even the discontinued 3800 90⁰ V6 engines, and the 60⁰ V6's. They all have relatively strong button ends and can handle pretty big HP numbers in stock form
Bro this is what’s going on at the track everyday, not just on Richards YT channel. There are literally more junkyard LS engines powering insanely fast drag cars then there are actual built racing engines these days. Fact is you don’t gain any power going with a built engine over a stock one if specs remain the same. If you have a stock 5.3 at 9:1 and a fully forged 5.3 at 9:1 with the same cam and heads, they will make the same power. The only benefit you get from the fully forged version is reliability. However people have finally realized that it’s cheaper to just swap out readily available junkyard blocks when they pop then it is to build a fully forged race engine. The only way you gain power with a built setup over a stock one is if you change displacement or compression. But a 9:1 325 CID 5.3 at 15# can make what a fully built 325 CID 5.3 at 15# makes just as well.
And this pains me greatly because the high dollar ~10:1 370 CID iron block I have built with all top shelf rotating components that is in my grudge car makes about the same power as the bone stock LS3 rotating assembly in the car I’m building for my cousin. I have a set of PRC fully worked L92 heads on the LS3 and AFR Mongoose heads on my 370, we run similar cam profiles only my 370 has a TSP cam and the LS3 has a BTR piece, but when the same boost pressure is applied through our matching PTE turbos we’re within 40 or so HP of eachother.
As to your question, why the increase in boost pressure with zero changes other than the lower IAT, one thing I have witnessed is heat weakens the spring in the BOV. The spring adds additional pressure on top of manifold pressure. A weaker spring can cause a slight boost leak in some circumstances. We had this problem recently with a pair of BOV’s In our case, the boost leak was so excessive that we were spinning the turbos so hard to make the amount of boost needed, it drove the intake air temps up almost 70 degrees. A new pair of BOV’s cured our problems and lowered the IAT’s and make more power on much less dome pressure.
increased density in the intake means more flow in the exhaust the wastegate is set to bypass a percentage based on flow you now have more flow so some is going through the turbine and drivinh it harder as the wastegate opens to compensate the spring gets stiffer and give more resistance
Boost went up because of the colder more dense air. Back pressure went up because of the colder dense air as well. Hot air molecules vibrate and move around which makes it harder to achieve a set boost pressure over a cold air charge. Cold air molecules aren't vibrating around like hot air molecules so it's easier to cram more into the cylinder. When they exit the exhaust they are vibrating more than that hotter less dense charge from the hotter air from the Dyno water. The cold air created an increase in back pressure and probably a better boost response because more of that hot air was trying to exit through the turbocharger than with using Dyno water. This is the reason they make the blankets for turbochargers it functions like header wrap not to mention it lowers the under hood temps.
Back in the mid 2000's guy I kinda knew had a Schimmel AWIC rig on his VW VR6 turbo car. He talked about how putting ice in the reservoir made a lot more power, but with the tank mounted in the trunk I wondered how cold the water would be after it travelled through 9-10 ft of hose. Car had a heat exchanger under the bumper, but I don't know which side of the system it was on. Also never saw any dyno charts for the car.
Gale Banks has several very good detailed explanations of this, available for years, with and without sales pitches for his products. Maybe try multi-stage cooling with multiple intercoolers set up serially? Add manifold water/methanol injection to the cooled intake charge? Chill the fuel?
Finally Richard U test this intake Manifold "Race Sniper" and we hope you compare it with "Sniper Low-Profile Sheet Metal Fabricated", thanks for you're keep testing 💪💪
Okay, the boost controller maintains a given boost level at the compressor outlet, but this gets further chilled by 150* F or so via the intercooler, so density increases by the time it hits the intake plenum - where you measure I hope. Very cool results, need me a twin turbo ice chilled LS combo...
IC water pump question… Was the water pump for the intercooler in this test a Meziere 55gpm single inlet, dual outlet pump? If that is not enough flow, how many gpm would you actually like to see on this particular intercooler?
Can you test a 6.2 gen V direct injection the same way? Obviously you are going to have to remove the DOD. I've picked one up and am curious to see what you come up with 1st. Again thanks for all the education. Much more educational than the old school magazine info.
Denser air means more fuel in the cylinder. It's not just how much air you can jam in there or how dense it is....its the combination of both fuel and airat the same afr. More burnt fuel means more exhaust gas to spin the turbos or more back pressure
Additionally: Looking at P.V=n.R.T In this case we observe at reduction in temperature from 310K to 293K. a reduction of ~5.5%. Since V is constant, R is constant. we need to increase 'n' to balance the equation. More 'n' = more mass flow = MORE POWER BABAY! (I know this is not exactly the case, and it's more complex than this, but stick with it, the fundamentals and broad strokes are what's important here.) Since turbo's are not 100% efficient, we also observe a rise in boost pressure. In the observed example we see a change in power between 3-8% in line with expectations based off the intake charge temp change throughout the rev range
I agree. To add, the higher density (colder air) reduces pressure drop (if the flow was the same) enabling more flow for the same boost level. This would increase the energy of the exhaust (more flow) hence more turbo power.
I think the root of the change was the rudimentary boost controller. The engine made more power down low before the turbos spooled due to the decrease in intake air temp. This allowed the engine to spoil the fairly large twin turbos faster. The bleed style boost controller just couldn’t keep up and it made a tiny bit more boost.
The turbine side of a turbo reacts to mass flow so with higher mass flow the faster the turbo wants to run, the boost controller needs an difference between setpoint and value measured to react proportionally to that difference, so there will be a difference in boost
The boost went up when you changed the air temp because of air density. Air, even though we can’t see it, does have a quantifiable weight to it and that weight changes with ambient temperature so at xx degrees F the turbo can suck so much air and then when temp changes to xx degrees F the turbo is then moving a different amount of air.
The boost pressure rising is a function of the intercooler itself because you measured boost pressure post intercooler what happened was when you cool down the air you allowed more dense charge to get through the inner cooler there for the speed of the air increased therefore the pressure increased. I think if you had run a larger air to water intercooler you would not have seen this climb in first because the volume of air would’ve easily gone through without having to be that cool. Your air to water intercooler is too much of a physical restriction
I see a lot of comments about cooler air being more dense but another factor is that hot air means you have to pull timing to avoid detonation. You mentioned you didn’t “allow” it to add more timing but it’s still going to not pull as much timing with a cooler charge of air vs a hotter charge.
ideal gas law. PV=nRT. You lowered the right side of the equation, temp, and you basically held the volume the same between runs on the left side of the equation so the pressure needed to increase.
The air gets denser the colder it gets so you were flowing the same volume but the air was denser overall thus more boost, put a variable pump on the air to water intercooler that flows more as your rmp increases and your charge temperatures will be a ton more consistent.
Possibly, the increase mass of air (density) with the same fuel input would create a leaner air:fuel mixture. Meaning it it was slightly rich on the initial tune and closer to optimum with more air.
@@richardholdener1727 ah, misunderstood. I thought that the fuel volume/rate/tune was identical. But it was the A:F ratio that stayed the same. So fuel did increase. More air + more fuel = more Power. 👍
Ooh. Like the interchillers?! I wanna see that too. But, they're application specific, LS, sbf, sbc, hemi, ford coyotes and mods.. he'd have to make a setup work with one engine at a time sadly..
Richard, quick question on a stock bottom end lq4 with stock 243s with springs LSXRT intake Nick Williams 102mm tb a comp 54-469-11 cam 1.75" runner shorty headers (no room for long tubes) to a 2.5" dual exhaust with x pipe with very open borla attak mufflers. what kind of crank HP would you expect to see? Based on your videos and my grade school maths, id thinnk 530/465 is close dont ya think? Thanks!! Love all of the knowledge your putting out there keep it up!
The incoming fuel particles were smaller due to lower temperature. Compression of fuel particles wasn’t as big a factor so there was increased boost. The relatively small change supports that hypothesis. Probably not. Maybe!
Richard where did you take your reference pressure for the Wastegate’s? Before or after the inter cooler as the cooler condenses the charge more with the colder cooling medium it needs to flow more and my guess you will have a higher pressure drop across the core. But i know nothing and that’s my best guess. Keep up the great work 👍
I think the turbos can build more boost with colder denser air. Only weird thing to me is the intercooler is after the turbos which makes me think it shouldn't effect there ability to pump air? Unless it has something to do with the exahust side of things who knows! Tell us Richard!
Without EGT's it's hard to say for sure. But typically the EGT won't change markedly regardless of the intake. Thus with the cooler charge temp, you're going to be processing more air (mass) and thus produce more exhaust (volume and mass.) Since bleed valves are pretty 'how-ya'-going' when it comes to control. When a functional change is made, an adjustment needs to be made to the bleed valve (or duty cycle with an EBC) to maintain the same target boost. Same as when you replace the OEM exhaust with a free flowing straight through exhaust, you often see a rise in boost pressure (at least on vehicles that's don't utilize EBC, and old Celica GT4, RX7, early WRX or Nissan Silvia is a good example of this." Thus in this example. No surprise. More Mass flow into the engine is resulting in more flow out of the engine wanting to spin the turbine harder and the 'dumb' bleed valve doesn't know it's target, so different boost curve is produced. Likely if you ran hot water or non intercooled. you'd probably see a boost reduction as the mass flow into the engine is reduced.
The boost pressure going up doesn't make sense. The turbo had to work to make that pressure. If the air becomes more dense, it becomes heavier and harder for the turbo to push, so the boost might go up. But, the engine still has to consume the air at the same volumetric rate, so I'm inclined to think the boost would go down. The boost going down at the top is probably past the best part of the compressor map for the turbo. I don't really have a solid idea as to how I would test this. For those intercooler couplings, MonkeyFabGarage makes nice v-bands with silicone o-ring grooves in the faces. If we want to go even colder, maybe we can use rubbing alcohol instead of water, and chill it with a bunch of dry ice. I think that's the safest way to do it, because the motor can be rigged to eat the vent gases, but if propylene glycol is used and a leak happens, that'll gum up the motor.
**Explanation** I work with compressors for a living, the best explanation I can give is that hot air is less dense than cold but pressure is relative to density so when the hot compressed air cooled it increases the density, if you where to have 2 sealed containers with 5psi and place 1 in a freezer the 1 in the freezer would lower in pressure because you increased the density of the air and lowered the volume/psi. So when that air was heated in the combustion chamber that extra volume of air expanded causing more gases in the exhaust. You maintain 14psi at x° and this is measured after the intercooler. I can pretty much bet that if you would have a flow meter in front of the turbo you would see a difference between the runs in the consumsion of air also try to take measurements of psi pre and post intercooler. Lol I think I might have confused myself lol. Its kind of hard to explain on a phone
Have you ever tried to put an intercooler in before the turbo? My logic says that if you increase air density before you compress it you would have that much more air entering the engine.
I'd guess that the gains to be had doing that wouldn't be worthwhile. You'd only be cooling the air from around 80 degrees in to the 60's. Like the difference between racing on a warm night to a not-so warm night. Whereas using it on the output, you're dropping it from 200 degrees in to the 60's.
The turbo is a “free air” device, seeks equilibrium in its own space. The denser charge made more power, increasing the energy available in the exhaust flow to the turbine. The compressor got spun a bit higher and, with the denser charge, pushed more air mass into the engine. Air actually has very significant mass and making it over 30° cooler has a significant effect. Absolute zero F is about negative 460° so the density change due to temperature is approximately 560/527, or about 6% more dense. The Holley sees more air density, adds fuel accordingly, and that increases everything. That’s my 2 cents worth on the subject, anyway.
I like the videos, very informative. Any recommendations or videos you have done for a daily driver. I have an H2 with a tired Gen 3 6.0. I'm looking for about 500-600hp dual intercooled turbo setup with minimal lag, good engine longevity and good all around driveability. Is this possible in your opinion? and any recommendations? I've considered a Duramax conversion, but aside from the cost, I would like to preserve the factory full time 4 wheel system as it works really well both on and off road. I know this is a little outside your wheelhouse but any recommendations much appreciated. Thanks in advance.
I suspect theres is an increase in fuel injector duty when running ice water and therefor there will be an increase in airflow through the engine. More airflow throgu the engine will increase the boost if the wastegates valves stay in the same position.
its simple. PV=mRT, less temp and more mass flow = more pressure (at the same volume). I would like to see these tests run with a fuel flow meter and an LFE. You would have probably measured and increase in airflow rate and an increase in fuel flow rate. From the numbers you give, the ice gives about a 7% increase in airflow mass which is proportional to the 70 hp increase in power at 1000 hp.
Cold Air =more density + more fuel per unit = efficiency which makes the engine move more air which makes mo par . Science at it’s finest. If I would have learned this way in school I probably would of graduated lol.
Cooler (denser) air means more fuel is needed to maintain the AF ratio. More fuel means more power. More power means more waste energy in the exhaust to drive the turbos resutling in higher boost.
two things are happening, the more relevant one : the engine is processing more air, and since there is more air in the exaust the turbo reaches higher pressure. the less relevant one and easy to demonstrate in the dyno, is all the hot air coming from the turbo has velocity, because its loosing density very quickly that velocity stays high, so you have a ram effect. To test : you increase the distance of the tube before the intercooler and will have an slightly increase in hp. not something you want for response :D
I expected a pressure drop due to density increase... My guess would be following the same principals through the cycles and having a cooler more dense exhaust flow forced an increase in flow density through the turbos. Did egt lower significantly?
Denser medium = more resistance to flow (definition of pressure). EGT would remain consistent despite the exothermic energy increase up to the point of back pressure increasing faster than boost pressure (exhaust flow limit where it becomes a restriction).
Guessing air is colder so the molecules are smaller and the same amount of air takes up less space, so you can ram more air in the engine increases the pressure and the boost making more power..
Kind of a weird question. Can an intercooler work both ways? Like can the same dual in/single out work as a single in/dual out? That way you could run one turbo to a dual throttle body intake.
I'd at least run twin pumps for two separate cooling circuits. That dyno water gets pretty slimey too, doesn't it? I wonder if your intercooler is a bit clogged. For ultimate flow, I wonder what a big FMIC in a horse trough full of ice water would do? Way more surface area but unless you used a couple trolling motors (LOL!) I don't know how you'd circulate water through it.
OR have the FMIC mounted horizontally, cover the bottom with plastic sheet with holes poked in it, then put the hose on top to fill it with ice water. It'd be a soothing intercooler rainfall. ...bench racing is fun... LOL!
Richard I know off topic but I need your help I'm upgrading my rocker trunnions for my LS2 6.0 roller bearing (BTR) or Bronze bushing? Thank you in advance... Todd
Clearly the ice water made the aluminum on the intercooler tubes shrink as we know that metal will shrink when cooled and made the intake charge cooler and more dense, so the boost went up because the intake was also smaller because of the lower intake and more dense air, more air in a smaller space makes more pressure. If you believe anything someone on the internet thinks you’re crazier than me! 😂
I am curious to see what type of afr changes there may have been, and what how much iat compensation it uses. Definitely a denser charge, that went through the engine making more turbine spinning exhaust power, May also be that its easier to compress the denser air if the turbine speeds were similar but we don’t really know the shaft speed. Backpressure was like you said, more power through the same sized hole/turbine.
I'm trying to come up with budget friendly ways to increase the efficiency of my ATW Vortech intercooler that came on the kit for my 97 LT1 Camaro. I've ditched the small pump for an 09 CTS-V intercooler pump. I think the next step is to replace the heat exchanger with a larger unit from Mishimoto. It runs around 80-90°F when cruising and has been up to 130°F after sitting in a parking lot on a hot day. Did the boost go up because the air density increased the turbo backpressure? I'm reaching here lol.
I've got a interesting suggestion for you if your able or aware of what it is? But how about doing preferably or possibly talking about a controlled atmosphere engine? Like the sbc nitrogen one if your familiar. 😉
the relative change in intake temperature is much greater than the relative change in exhaust temperature; your intake air got significantly more dense (303k (95f) -> 273k, about 10% more dense), but your exhaust air only got a little bit more dense (estimating numbers 1173k -> 1150k, about 2% denser) as a result, for the same pressure ratio, your turbo could move 8% more air mass, this results in a higher exhaust mass flow, causing the turbo to move even air mass, this increase in air mass leads to a slightly higher exhaust mass and this repeats until it reaches an equilibrium due to the WG. this equilibrium will be at a higher intake pressure, as the exhaust pressure has increased, the mass of exhaust that flows through the wg and turbine has increased, but they have increased in the same ratio to their current flows, so the turbine will flow more mass than the wg, this will increase intake pressure, that will drive the wg to open more to limit the turbine mass flow but the thing to note is, the intake pressure needs to be higher than it was previously to limit the turbine mass flow at the new equilibrium point.
Would compressing cold air allow more molecules to condense smaller into the same space than at normal temperatures which in turn increases boost pressures
Can you do a video where you try to match these turbo ls horsepower numbers with nitrous?? We see you can slap a turbo on and make 1200+ but what kind of setup/how much nitrous would it take for that 6.0 to make 1200 on gas?
The ice water temperature rise could be the induction charge doesn't spend enough time in the intercooler to dump all its heat due to its increased velocity. The boost pressure increase might be akin to viscosity. A denser air charge at the same velocity would increase pressure. Apologies for my 9th grade education founded theories.
At least your not over thinking it, with a huge long mathematical equation and explanation, others are doing or saying oh it’s just dense air, lol….I’d say the answer is simple cold air has smaller molecules and takes up less space, leaving room for more air to be rammed into it, unlike hot air which expands, less air per stroke..so if you can ram more air into the same space it should increase the psi, and so during the compression stoke , thus making more power, it’s too simple I say..
Richard - i'm not sure that i've ever seen it done, never mind by someone that does things in the scientific ways that you do, but i would LOVE LOVE LOVE to see you do a test on a basic LS, say a sloppy stage 2 cam or whatever, but use two different sized turbos... say a 78/76 and an 88/103, or a 67 and 78 on each side.. Just to see what happens! and a fair gap between the two (5+mm?) so that way there's definitely a difference in flow... I would be seriously interested to see if that would HELP or HURT the horsepower! Maybe the bigger turbo would "fight" the smaller turbo and actually cause LESS boost.. Maybe even just have a bench racing live session and discuss it?!
@@bill2178 I browsed through recently and couldn’t find anything on odd sized twins. Obviously there’s a ton of single vs single vs single videos but not what I am referring to. I could have missed it though - I’ll look again!
they will fit each other-flow from the small turbo that spools quicker will try to escape out the big turbo at lower speeds, the opposite at higher speeds (unequal flow) is my guess
@@richardholdener1727 that’s basically what I would expect.. small turbo would counteract the large turbo down “low” rpm, but once the exhaust pressure spools the big one it would probably freight-train the hell out of the little one and stop it from making boost. If I was a betting man, I would expect a wavy boost curve and low boost top and bottom rpm ranges… and I mean manifold pressure not turbo outlet..
Colder charge temperatures = more density there for to maintain af ratio injector pulse goes up high density air + more fuel equals power and more exhaust increases boost
Also worth mentioning you accurately said you didn’t set it up to change AFR... that doesn’t mean the Holley system won’t give it more fuel, because it did, to maintain the commanded equivalence ratio in the presence of additional oxygen. 😉
the Holley doesn't change the supplied fuel to the motor unless I command it-it was not run with any modifiers or under closed loop-I changed the AF to equalize them between the two runs
That was sort of a knee jerk answer.... as you pointed out the back pressure increased because of air density so this caused a greater pressure differential across the turbine making it spin faster. Also maybe it got into a more efficient part of the map.
Physics ideal gas law says pv is equal to nrt meaning that pressure and volume are directly effected by temperature. As pressure and volume increase so should temp. In this case 32 degrees is not an ideal temperature for the law. As the boost hits and the temps cool the air density will increase and should be the cause of the increase in boost early on based on the extremely cold intercooler temps. I'm not a physicist so I could be wrong lol
I would have to say that the lower air temp would change the density.. the way i see it - more dense air swirl's around in the intake and makes more magical horse powers.. That's the only way to explain it.
A2W is cool on the dyno but it just never seems worth it in real world swap applications compared to basic A2A. A2W adds the failure points of lines, connections, fittings, etc and the complexity of the tank and pump system, and the maintenance of the water.
Short answer=greater air density because of lower temperature. Density creates pressure. Richard, i think you're like the engine information messiah. No other person in history has documented the amount of research you have, then freely shared it will the public. I'm a BIG fan. Keep it up!👍
I feel like this is on the right track but not completely accurate. Density does not create pressure. If this were true then your tires would gain pressure in the winter time instead of loosing pressure. Instead, density creates a resistance to compression. Denser particals are harder to compress. And since boost is essentially a measure of the resistance of air compressing in the manifold. Boost goes up with the colder air. Just my thoughts.
Yeah for public
@@ProfessorCsATVs would be a good idea to meter pressure right after the compressor, before the intercooler, after the intercooler, and just before the throttle to get a more detailed spectrum of data.
Air density is correct. Essentially more oxygen per volume of air with the iced intercooler thus more boost. More air equals more boost.
I agree with the cooler air and density rising adding minor gains in boost pressure.
Density Ratio increased because colder air has more molecules of air per cubic inch than warmer air. Gale Banks has been preaching this for a while: "the boost gauge is dead" he says! Density Ratio is the key! Imagine what the loss would have been with No charge cooler at all, Yikes! You would have power loss, then found the evil detonation/Pre-Ignition threshold ! Great subject! Thanks Richard
You do such a good job with these videos Rich. Excellent channel!
Charge air was more dense, increasing mass flow through the system, allowing the turbine to make more power (due to higher enthalpy in the exhaust) to drive the compressor to higher boost pressure. Then when the engine reached 14.0 psi at 6100 rpm, the wastegate became active because the boost setpoint was reached, then boost pressure bled down to be equal to the ambient water data by 6500 rpm.
Increase in charge temperature throughout the power sweep is probably inevitable. Because the boost pressure was rising with increasing speed, the compressor discharge temperature would have been increasing, too. The intercooler effectiveness was probably higher at the higher temperature. If the boost pressure had stabilized at 14.0 psi by 3000 rpm, the charge temperature would have been more stable, but higher.
Nailed it!!
^^^ this right here
I don't believe for a second that you didnt know the answer to your question 😄 nice job engaging your viewers though! Enjoyed the video as always.
is it because the air is more dense the colder it becomes
Give this man a cigar
If the air temperature stayed the same boost wouldn't change. You are half right. The boost increase was do to the temp increase. The ice water had a bigger difference from 50 to what it went up to. Having more dense air then heating it the air expands.
Yep. Oxygen volume per cubic measurement of ozone increases when temperature decreases. With the exception of elevation changes..
I'd like to see a air to air intercooler test with methanol injection, that is a realistic street setup
Like Gale Banks said. The boost Guage is dead, MAD or manifold air density, it tells us airflow instead of resistance which is what boost is. Past SC truck. Stock motor was 16/18 psi. Ported and polished from throttle body to even header flange. Psi dropped to 9 to 12 but Horsepower jumped by 72 rwhp
Exactly. Boost means nothing without a map sensor. Best time to run a turbo car is a foggy frosty night here in England 🥶 the air is so thick you can cut it with a knife
Am I the only one amazed by the power and marketability of what's going on here? Richard is taking used engines with tens of thousands of miles and turning them into drag racing motors! Correct me if I'm wrong, 90% of the stuff is used parts! Stuff he has bought at the junkyard at a fraction of the price new. Making HP numbers north of 500 NA and then doubling, sometimes tripling HP numbers boosted! All with 80-90% used parts?
its a testament to how important it is to calibrate the engine properly
#Ring gap and tuning matters
It's also a testament to how reliable these modern GM engines are as well. They are very well designed. More cost affective for guys to use junkyard blocks and build on top of them, than it is to do a complete build. Not just the LS engines, but even the discontinued 3800 90⁰ V6 engines, and the 60⁰ V6's. They all have relatively strong button ends and can handle pretty big HP numbers in stock form
Bro this is what’s going on at the track everyday, not just on Richards YT channel. There are literally more junkyard LS engines powering insanely fast drag cars then there are actual built racing engines these days. Fact is you don’t gain any power going with a built engine over a stock one if specs remain the same. If you have a stock 5.3 at 9:1 and a fully forged 5.3 at 9:1 with the same cam and heads, they will make the same power. The only benefit you get from the fully forged version is reliability. However people have finally realized that it’s cheaper to just swap out readily available junkyard blocks when they pop then it is to build a fully forged race engine. The only way you gain power with a built setup over a stock one is if you change displacement or compression. But a 9:1 325 CID 5.3 at 15# can make what a fully built 325 CID 5.3 at 15# makes just as well.
And this pains me greatly because the high dollar ~10:1 370 CID iron block I have built with all top shelf rotating components that is in my grudge car makes about the same power as the bone stock LS3 rotating assembly in the car I’m building for my cousin. I have a set of PRC fully worked L92 heads on the LS3 and AFR Mongoose heads on my 370, we run similar cam profiles only my 370 has a TSP cam and the LS3 has a BTR piece, but when the same boost pressure is applied through our matching PTE turbos we’re within 40 or so HP of eachother.
This is one of my favorite posts you ve made sir. Keep em comin.,🏁🏁🏁
Boost went up because the density went up - thus more power in the cylinders - thus more exhaust energy to spin the turbos harder.
As to your question, why the increase in boost pressure with zero changes other than the lower IAT, one thing I have witnessed is heat weakens the spring in the BOV. The spring adds additional pressure on top of manifold pressure.
A weaker spring can cause a slight boost leak in some circumstances. We had this problem recently with a pair of BOV’s
In our case, the boost leak was so excessive that we were spinning the turbos so hard to make the amount of boost needed, it drove the intake air temps up almost 70 degrees.
A new pair of BOV’s cured our problems and lowered the IAT’s and make more power on much less dome pressure.
Interesting.
there was no bov leaking
increased density in the intake means more flow in the exhaust the wastegate is set to bypass a percentage based on flow you now have more flow so some is going through the turbine and drivinh it harder as the wastegate opens to compensate the spring gets stiffer and give more resistance
Thank you for all your testing and information my man 👍
Boost went up because of the colder more dense air. Back pressure went up because of the colder dense air as well. Hot air molecules vibrate and move around which makes it harder to achieve a set boost pressure over a cold air charge. Cold air molecules aren't vibrating around like hot air molecules so it's easier to cram more into the cylinder. When they exit the exhaust they are vibrating more than that hotter less dense charge from the hotter air from the Dyno water. The cold air created an increase in back pressure and probably a better boost response because more of that hot air was trying to exit through the turbocharger than with using Dyno water. This is the reason they make the blankets for turbochargers it functions like header wrap not to mention it lowers the under hood temps.
Gosh damn that's a lot of power out of a small block Chevy!!! I need that deal!
dude your f ing awesome, i love your tests, thumbs up
Back in the mid 2000's guy I kinda knew had a Schimmel AWIC rig on his VW VR6 turbo car. He talked about how putting ice in the reservoir made a lot more power, but with the tank mounted in the trunk I wondered how cold the water would be after it travelled through 9-10 ft of hose. Car had a heat exchanger under the bumper, but I don't know which side of the system it was on. Also never saw any dyno charts for the car.
Gale Banks has several very good detailed explanations of this, available for years, with and without sales pitches for his products. Maybe try multi-stage cooling with multiple intercoolers set up serially? Add manifold water/methanol injection to the cooled intake charge? Chill the fuel?
Finally Richard U test this intake Manifold "Race Sniper" and we hope you compare it with "Sniper Low-Profile Sheet Metal Fabricated", thanks for you're keep testing 💪💪
+1500hp on a stock bottom end 🔥👍
The 'air bleed' wastegate control is limiting low rpm torque, thus preserving tbe bottom end.
Okay, the boost controller maintains a given boost level at the compressor outlet, but this gets further chilled by 150* F or so via the intercooler, so density increases by the time it hits the intake plenum - where you measure I hope. Very cool results, need me a twin turbo ice chilled LS combo...
IC water pump question… Was the water pump for the intercooler in this test a Meziere 55gpm single inlet, dual outlet pump? If that is not enough flow, how many gpm would you actually like to see on this particular intercooler?
I would like to see both more pump and flow through the core with bigger fittings and straight through (not looped)
@@richardholdener1727 Right, you mentioned that in the video. However, I don’t believe you mentioned the flow rate of the pump you were using.
Can you test a 6.2 gen V direct injection the same way? Obviously you are going to have to remove the DOD. I've picked one up and am curious to see what you come up with 1st. Again thanks for all the education. Much more educational than the old school magazine info.
Denser air means more fuel in the cylinder. It's not just how much air you can jam in there or how dense it is....its the combination of both fuel and airat the same afr. More burnt fuel means more exhaust gas to spin the turbos or more back pressure
Additionally: Looking at P.V=n.R.T
In this case we observe at reduction in temperature from 310K to 293K. a reduction of ~5.5%.
Since V is constant, R is constant. we need to increase 'n' to balance the equation. More 'n' = more mass flow = MORE POWER BABAY! (I know this is not exactly the case, and it's more complex than this, but stick with it, the fundamentals and broad strokes are what's important here.)
Since turbo's are not 100% efficient, we also observe a rise in boost pressure. In the observed example we see a change in power between 3-8% in line with expectations based off the intake charge temp change throughout the rev range
I agree. To add, the higher density (colder air) reduces pressure drop (if the flow was the same) enabling more flow for the same boost level. This would increase the energy of the exhaust (more flow) hence more turbo power.
I think the root of the change was the rudimentary boost controller. The engine made more power down low before the turbos spooled due to the decrease in intake air temp. This allowed the engine to spoil the fairly large twin turbos faster. The bleed style boost controller just couldn’t keep up and it made a tiny bit more boost.
Bleed boost controllers are rubbish. Just go and buy an electronic boost controller.
The turbine side of a turbo reacts to mass flow so with higher mass flow the faster the turbo wants to run, the boost controller needs an difference between setpoint and value measured to react proportionally to that difference, so there will be a difference in boost
The boost went up when you changed the air temp because of air density. Air, even though we can’t see it, does have a quantifiable weight to it and that weight changes with ambient temperature so at xx degrees F the turbo can suck so much air and then when temp changes to xx degrees F the turbo is then moving a different amount of air.
The boost pressure rising is a function of the intercooler itself because you measured boost pressure post intercooler what happened was when you cool down the air you allowed more dense charge to get through the inner cooler there for the speed of the air increased therefore the pressure increased. I think if you had run a larger air to water intercooler you would not have seen this climb in first because the volume of air would’ve easily gone through without having to be that cool. Your air to water intercooler is too much of a physical restriction
I see a lot of comments about cooler air being more dense but another factor is that hot air means you have to pull timing to avoid detonation. You mentioned you didn’t “allow” it to add more timing but it’s still going to not pull as much timing with a cooler charge of air vs a hotter charge.
timing was identical on this
Pretty sure timing is predetermined at any given rpm
ideal gas law. PV=nRT. You lowered the right side of the equation, temp, and you basically held the volume the same between runs on the left side of the equation so the pressure needed to increase.
The air gets denser the colder it gets so you were flowing the same volume but the air was denser overall thus more boost, put a variable pump on the air to water intercooler that flows more as your rmp increases and your charge temperatures will be a ton more consistent.
as gale banks would say, air density
Richard maybe you could add turbo shaft rpm as another bit of data and see how that relates to back pressure and boost?
I wish I had that too
Possibly, the increase mass of air (density) with the same fuel input would create a leaner air:fuel mixture.
Meaning it it was slightly rich on the initial tune and closer to optimum with more air.
af was identical
@@richardholdener1727 so total fuel increased to maintain the same ratio.
More air + More fuel = More Power. 👍
@@richardholdener1727 ah, misunderstood.
I thought that the fuel volume/rate/tune was identical.
But it was the A:F ratio that stayed the same.
So fuel did increase.
More air + more fuel = more Power. 👍
Would love to see you try out a killer chiller or something similar on a water to air intercooler
Ooh. Like the interchillers?! I wanna see that too. But, they're application specific, LS, sbf, sbc, hemi, ford coyotes and mods.. he'd have to make a setup work with one engine at a time sadly..
@@PureCountryof91 they have a universal setup of the killer chiller.
My biggest question.. if you would have changed the timing would you have gotten more power than you already did running ice water
Richard, quick question on a stock bottom end lq4 with stock 243s with springs LSXRT intake Nick Williams 102mm tb a comp 54-469-11 cam 1.75" runner shorty headers (no room for long tubes) to a 2.5" dual exhaust with x pipe with very open borla attak mufflers.
what kind of crank HP would you expect to see?
Based on your videos and my grade school maths, id thinnk 530/465 is close dont ya think?
Thanks!! Love all of the knowledge your putting out there keep it up!
469 CAM?
@@richardholdener1727 ah yes! sorry about that.
.
air Molecules closer together =density like all comments say.peace
And when they go boom there's more oxygen in the same volume to make a bigger boom like Gale Banks sez.
Agree with Mr Gill below. Colder air is more dense, room for more oxygen molecules.
The incoming fuel particles were smaller due to lower temperature. Compression of fuel particles wasn’t as big a factor so there was increased boost. The relatively small change supports that hypothesis. Probably not. Maybe!
Richard where did you take your reference pressure for the Wastegate’s?
Before or after the inter cooler as the cooler condenses the charge more with the colder cooling medium it needs to flow more and my guess you will have a higher pressure drop across the core.
But i know nothing and that’s my best guess. Keep up the great work 👍
we take it in the manifold
@@richardholdener1727 well that rules out that idea. Thanks Richard keep up the great work and keep us posted when you find the answer
I think the turbos can build more boost with colder denser air. Only weird thing to me is the intercooler is after the turbos which makes me think it shouldn't effect there ability to pump air? Unless it has something to do with the exahust side of things who knows! Tell us Richard!
I saw "6..." when I glanced at the title and my brain thought "Hell yes, he finally found a Ford 6.2L!" but it's another LS.
Without EGT's it's hard to say for sure. But typically the EGT won't change markedly regardless of the intake.
Thus with the cooler charge temp, you're going to be processing more air (mass) and thus produce more exhaust (volume and mass.) Since bleed valves are pretty 'how-ya'-going' when it comes to control.
When a functional change is made, an adjustment needs to be made to the bleed valve (or duty cycle with an EBC) to maintain the same target boost. Same as when you replace the OEM exhaust with a free flowing straight through exhaust, you often see a rise in boost pressure (at least on vehicles that's don't utilize EBC, and old Celica GT4, RX7, early WRX or Nissan Silvia is a good example of this."
Thus in this example. No surprise. More Mass flow into the engine is resulting in more flow out of the engine wanting to spin the turbine harder and the 'dumb' bleed valve doesn't know it's target, so different boost curve is produced. Likely if you ran hot water or non intercooled. you'd probably see a boost reduction as the mass flow into the engine is reduced.
The boost pressure going up doesn't make sense. The turbo had to work to make that pressure. If the air becomes more dense, it becomes heavier and harder for the turbo to push, so the boost might go up. But, the engine still has to consume the air at the same volumetric rate, so I'm inclined to think the boost would go down. The boost going down at the top is probably past the best part of the compressor map for the turbo. I don't really have a solid idea as to how I would test this.
For those intercooler couplings, MonkeyFabGarage makes nice v-bands with silicone o-ring grooves in the faces.
If we want to go even colder, maybe we can use rubbing alcohol instead of water, and chill it with a bunch of dry ice. I think that's the safest way to do it, because the motor can be rigged to eat the vent gases, but if propylene glycol is used and a leak happens, that'll gum up the motor.
**Explanation** I work with compressors for a living, the best explanation I can give is that hot air is less dense than cold but pressure is relative to density so when the hot compressed air cooled it increases the density, if you where to have 2 sealed containers with 5psi and place 1 in a freezer the 1 in the freezer would lower in pressure because you increased the density of the air and lowered the volume/psi. So when that air was heated in the combustion chamber that extra volume of air expanded causing more gases in the exhaust. You maintain 14psi at x° and this is measured after the intercooler. I can pretty much bet that if you would have a flow meter in front of the turbo you would see a difference between the runs in the consumsion of air also try to take measurements of psi pre and post intercooler. Lol I think I might have confused myself lol. Its kind of hard to explain on a phone
Have you ever tried to put an intercooler in before the turbo? My logic says that if you increase air density before you compress it you would have that much more air entering the engine.
I'd guess that the gains to be had doing that wouldn't be worthwhile. You'd only be cooling the air from around 80 degrees in to the 60's. Like the difference between racing on a warm night to a not-so warm night. Whereas using it on the output, you're dropping it from 200 degrees in to the 60's.
The turbo is a “free air” device, seeks equilibrium in its own space. The denser charge made more power, increasing the energy available in the exhaust flow to the turbine. The compressor got spun a bit higher and, with the denser charge, pushed more air mass into the engine. Air actually has very significant mass and making it over 30° cooler has a significant effect. Absolute zero F is about negative 460° so the density change due to temperature is approximately 560/527, or about 6% more dense. The Holley sees more air density, adds fuel accordingly, and that increases everything. That’s my 2 cents worth on the subject, anyway.
the Holley did not see a change in air temp-but I did add fuel to to keep the af consistent between the two runs
Richard! Reverse piston test when?? If you need a running engine, let me know! I'll deliver one for FREE.
what do you have
@@richardholdener1727 1985 carbureted 360
@@richardholdener1727 and a 1978 440
Do it.
I like the videos, very informative. Any recommendations or videos you have done for a daily driver. I have an H2 with a tired Gen 3 6.0. I'm looking for about 500-600hp dual intercooled turbo setup with minimal lag, good engine longevity and good all around driveability. Is this possible in your opinion? and any recommendations? I've considered a Duramax conversion, but aside from the cost, I would like to preserve the factory full time 4 wheel system as it works really well both on and off road. I know this is a little outside your wheelhouse but any recommendations much appreciated. Thanks in advance.
that is all possible with the right tune
I suspect theres is an increase in fuel injector duty when running ice water and therefor there will be an increase in airflow through the engine. More airflow throgu the engine will increase the boost if the wastegates valves stay in the same position.
its simple. PV=mRT, less temp and more mass flow = more pressure (at the same volume). I would like to see these tests run with a fuel flow meter and an LFE. You would have probably measured and increase in airflow rate and an increase in fuel flow rate. From the numbers you give, the ice gives about a 7% increase in airflow mass which is proportional to the 70 hp increase in power at 1000 hp.
Cold Air =more density + more fuel per unit = efficiency which makes the engine move more air which makes mo par . Science at it’s finest. If I would have learned this way in school I probably would of graduated lol.
Cooler (denser) air means more fuel is needed to maintain the AF ratio. More fuel means more power. More power means more waste energy in the exhaust to drive the turbos resutling in higher boost.
two things are happening, the more relevant one : the engine is processing more air, and since there is more air in the exaust the turbo reaches higher pressure.
the less relevant one and easy to demonstrate in the dyno, is all the hot air coming from the turbo has velocity, because its loosing density very quickly that velocity stays high, so you have a ram effect. To test : you increase the distance of the tube before the intercooler and will have an slightly increase in hp.
not something you want for response :D
I expected a pressure drop due to density increase... My guess would be following the same principals through the cycles and having a cooler more dense exhaust flow forced an increase in flow density through the turbos. Did egt lower significantly?
Denser medium = more resistance to flow (definition of pressure). EGT would remain consistent despite the exothermic energy increase up to the point of back pressure increasing faster than boost pressure (exhaust flow limit where it becomes a restriction).
Guessing air is colder so the molecules are smaller and the same amount of air takes up less space, so you can ram more air in the engine increases the pressure and the boost making more power..
Would like to see this test with a roots blower, take the pressure referenced boost control out of the equation.
Roots blower = much lower performance.
@@nordic5490 absolutely, but this would be a good test for a LSA or LS9.
I have done this with a blower too
I use an a/w on a roots.I did a video on the dyno and gained 100hp from the I/c
Kind of a weird question. Can an intercooler work both ways? Like can the same dual in/single out work as a single in/dual out? That way you could run one turbo to a dual throttle body intake.
yes
I'd at least run twin pumps for two separate cooling circuits. That dyno water gets pretty slimey too, doesn't it? I wonder if your intercooler is a bit clogged.
For ultimate flow, I wonder what a big FMIC in a horse trough full of ice water would do? Way more surface area but unless you used a couple trolling motors (LOL!) I don't know how you'd circulate water through it.
OR have the FMIC mounted horizontally, cover the bottom with plastic sheet with holes poked in it, then put the hose on top to fill it with ice water. It'd be a soothing intercooler rainfall. ...bench racing is fun... LOL!
Richard I know off topic but I need your help I'm upgrading my rocker trunnions for my LS2 6.0 roller bearing (BTR) or Bronze bushing? Thank you in advance... Todd
talk to btr-they might have more insight on that
Clearly the ice water made the aluminum on the intercooler tubes shrink as we know that metal will shrink when cooled and made the intake charge cooler and more dense, so the boost went up because the intake was also smaller because of the lower intake and more dense air, more air in a smaller space makes more pressure. If you believe anything someone on the internet thinks you’re crazier than me! 😂
I am curious to see what type of afr changes there may have been, and what how much iat compensation it uses. Definitely a denser charge, that went through the engine making more turbine spinning exhaust power, May also be that its easier to compress the denser air if the turbine speeds were similar but we don’t really know the shaft speed. Backpressure was like you said, more power through the same sized hole/turbine.
Damn everyone on density, maybe the wastegate wasn’t big enough
there is no compensation for IAT-and AFR was the same (because I added fuel to the colder run to keep it the same)
Richard could you run and U run antifreeze and dry ice through an intercooler ? Maybe for a video
anti freeze isn't the best for picking up heat. I run only enough anti freeze through my air-water intercooler to keep it from freezing in winter.
My question is, what rear end gear would a person run with a 1042 hp ?
More great stuff. But I am still waiting to see a 'big bang' that ends in a bang.
I'm trying to come up with budget friendly ways to increase the efficiency of my ATW Vortech intercooler that came on the kit for my 97 LT1 Camaro. I've ditched the small pump for an 09 CTS-V intercooler pump. I think the next step is to replace the heat exchanger with a larger unit from Mishimoto. It runs around 80-90°F when cruising and has been up to 130°F after sitting in a parking lot on a hot day.
Did the boost go up because the air density increased the turbo backpressure? I'm reaching here lol.
I've got a interesting suggestion for you if your able or aware of what it is? But how about doing preferably or possibly talking about a controlled atmosphere engine? Like the sbc nitrogen one if your familiar. 😉
Cooler air is more dense with oxygen molecules. The denser air in the
A/F mixture will make more power during combustion. Bigger bang= bigger power.
Cold air presents more resistant flow than warm air thus requiring more turbo boost to move the mass.
the relative change in intake temperature is much greater than the relative change in exhaust temperature;
your intake air got significantly more dense (303k (95f) -> 273k, about 10% more dense), but your exhaust air only got a little bit more dense (estimating numbers 1173k -> 1150k, about 2% denser)
as a result, for the same pressure ratio, your turbo could move 8% more air mass, this results in a higher exhaust mass flow, causing the turbo to move even air mass, this increase in air mass leads to a slightly higher exhaust mass and this repeats until it reaches an equilibrium due to the WG.
this equilibrium will be at a higher intake pressure, as the exhaust pressure has increased, the mass of exhaust that flows through the wg and turbine has increased, but they have increased in the same ratio to their current flows, so the turbine will flow more mass than the wg, this will increase intake pressure, that will drive the wg to open more to limit the turbine mass flow but the thing to note is, the intake pressure needs to be higher than it was previously to limit the turbine mass flow at the new equilibrium point.
Why more boost? Boost control system isn't working right. Maxed out with too much exhaust going through the WG.
Denser air is harder to push so seems right the pressure would increase.
Would compressing cold air allow more molecules to condense smaller into the same space than at normal temperatures which in turn increases boost pressures
Can you do a video where you try to match these turbo ls horsepower numbers with nitrous?? We see you can slap a turbo on and make 1200+ but what kind of setup/how much nitrous would it take for that 6.0 to make 1200 on gas?
I did that and you can never match turbo hp with nitrous
Condensation. Droplets not compressing?
If you ever do the big bang 6.0 again, can we please see the numbers with different fuels like e85,87,93,& Q16 ?🤷♂️
BIG BANG IS NOT ABOUT FUELS-ITS ABOUT STRENGTH OF THE INTERNAL COMPONENTS
@@richardholdener1727 I definitely know that...but I'm building a replica & would just like to see the maximum hp on certain fuels
Simple thermodynamics. Air molecules are smaller so you can shove more of them in the cylinder. More air plus more fuel equals more power.
The ice water temperature rise could be the induction charge doesn't spend enough time in the intercooler to dump all its heat due to its increased velocity. The boost pressure increase might be akin to viscosity. A denser air charge at the same velocity would increase pressure.
Apologies for my 9th grade education founded theories.
At least your not over thinking it, with a huge long mathematical equation and explanation, others are doing or saying oh it’s just dense air, lol….I’d say the answer is simple cold air has smaller molecules and takes up less space, leaving room for more air to be rammed into it, unlike hot air which expands, less air per stroke..so if you can ram more air into the same space it should increase the psi, and so during the compression stoke , thus making more power, it’s too simple I say..
I need some info help! Do you know how much water flow you had with the intercooler water pump?
we did not measure it
@richardholdener1727 thanks for the reply! I have to wait for Spring to test mine and will try to post some info if ok with you.
Richard - i'm not sure that i've ever seen it done, never mind by someone that does things in the scientific ways that you do, but i would LOVE LOVE LOVE to see you do a test on a basic LS, say a sloppy stage 2 cam or whatever, but use two different sized turbos... say a 78/76 and an 88/103, or a 67 and 78 on each side.. Just to see what happens! and a fair gap between the two (5+mm?) so that way there's definitely a difference in flow... I would be seriously interested to see if that would HELP or HURT the horsepower! Maybe the bigger turbo would "fight" the smaller turbo and actually cause LESS boost..
Maybe even just have a bench racing live session and discuss it?!
all these tests have been done you just have to look back over the channel
@@bill2178 I browsed through recently and couldn’t find anything on odd sized twins. Obviously there’s a ton of single vs single vs single videos but not what I am referring to. I could have missed it though - I’ll look again!
they will fit each other-flow from the small turbo that spools quicker will try to escape out the big turbo at lower speeds, the opposite at higher speeds (unequal flow) is my guess
@@richardholdener1727 that’s basically what I would expect.. small turbo would counteract the large turbo down “low” rpm, but once the exhaust pressure spools the big one it would probably freight-train the hell out of the little one and stop it from making boost. If I was a betting man, I would expect a wavy boost curve and low boost top and bottom rpm ranges… and I mean manifold pressure not turbo outlet..
I'd like to know hot that 6.0 redlined at 7000 with stock internals
Gen 4 rods
we run gen 3 and gen 4 sbe ls motors from the junkyard to 7000 all the time (good springs)
It's all in the Top End, not the Bottom!
@@richardholdener1727 can a 5.3 rev to 7k with cams and springs as well?
Right on
I like to se a minimum of .5gallon/second/1000hp of water flow for good water to air performance.
I am installing a 55gpm meziere pump and hope to get that .5gal sec water flow on my roots setup.
Colder charge temperatures = more density there for to maintain af ratio injector pulse goes up high density air + more fuel equals power and more exhaust increases boost
great video!!
Here is something that I have been bouncing around why not use a ac unit too cool the air
Demons and red eye Mopars use the AC to cool the intercooler system. Forced Inductions and Kincaid Performance sell kits that do the same thing
Also worth mentioning you accurately said you didn’t set it up to change AFR... that doesn’t mean the Holley system won’t give it more fuel, because it did, to maintain the commanded equivalence ratio in the presence of additional oxygen. 😉
the Holley doesn't change the supplied fuel to the motor unless I command it-it was not run with any modifiers or under closed loop-I changed the AF to equalize them between the two runs
The cooler boost was affecting the boost controller?
I'm thinking the denser air caused the turbine to spin faster. Do you have a graph of turbo RPM?
That was sort of a knee jerk answer.... as you pointed out the back pressure increased because of air density so this caused a greater pressure differential across the turbine making it spin faster. Also maybe it got into a more efficient part of the map.
Physics ideal gas law says pv is equal to nrt meaning that pressure and volume are directly effected by temperature. As pressure and volume increase so should temp. In this case 32 degrees is not an ideal temperature for the law. As the boost hits and the temps cool the air density will increase and should be the cause of the increase in boost early on based on the extremely cold intercooler temps. I'm not a physicist so I could be wrong lol
I would have to say that the lower air temp would change the density.. the way i see it - more dense air swirl's around in the intake and makes more magical horse powers.. That's the only way to explain it.
Lower pressure allows more volume of gas or fuel
Good job mate ;)
A little Aqua Net Hairspray will help those couplers stay on! No pun intended lol
we have run that stuff for years-we need real connections though
What about a core that uses some type of refrigerant. Sub zero temps.
A2W is cool on the dyno but it just never seems worth it in real world swap applications compared to basic A2A. A2W adds the failure points of lines, connections, fittings, etc and the complexity of the tank and pump system, and the maintenance of the water.
IVE RUN ATW ON STREET CARS FOR YEARS WITH NO PROBLEMS, BUT THEY BOTH WORK
What exhuast a/r were these s475's??