Back in the 80's during the Turbo era of Formula 1 before the start of the race the would put dry ice in the inlets of the side pods in front of the intercooler to cool the charge. Not sure exactly how effective it was but if helped them gain a couple of positions at the start it was a benefit.
a water sprayer costs about 50-80 bucks if you wire it properly and use a washer tank. Id go with 5 seconds on the relay and the fine mist greenhouse sprayers. Also, chemical intercooling via water injection/methanol injection. Ive seen them just mist it upstream of the throttle body on the cold side of the intercooler.
Need to continue this. Subaru used liquid sprayers with good results. Also, I wanna see a water to air setup followed by a killer chiller setup using the cars A/C setup.
@ricepony33 Just being pedantic, but the original Ford Lightning didn't have a blower, but used a mildly spiced-up 351. The supercharged 5.4 truck Brian drove in F&F 1 was the 2nd-gen.
This little trick has been around for years. A cool story from down under. Year: 1989 Location: Bathurst Car: Ford Cosworth Sierra (Turbo 2L inline 4 engine) Peter Brock qualified on pole position after having ridiculous speeds recorded on the two longest straights of the track (mountain and conrod straights). During post qualifying inspection it was found that the onboard fire extinguisher (CO2) was plummed so it pointed at the intercooler, and Brock let it off going down the long straights, giving the engine more power resulting in a quick lap time. The result stood because their was no rule against it.
@ShaunHensley Yes, it was the 80s and things were much more relaxed back then. Playing devil's advocate, I guess you can't make it against the rules to "activate" the fire suppression system.
@noname-sd5dt Really?!!! That's so cool! I didn't know about that. I do recall reading an article somewhere about the qualifying engine, stating it was only in the car for qualification and the top ten shoot-out and that was it. After that, it got replaced with the race engine for the race the next day and pretty much needed a full rebuild after only running a few laps because it was put under so much load from running extremely high boost and being reved so hard.
slight fire hazard spraying that stuff in an already hot engine compartment with the potential of over spray hitting the exhaust but could be ducted away to ground or vertically out the hood
It should be something that arrives as a liquid and phase changes to gas. Liquid Nitrogen would be really good, and alcohol of course, but water absorbs a lot of energy even without changing phase to gas and is not explosive.
Ive seen people use solid chunks of C02 stuffed into the intercooler ducting pre send down the 1/4mile. As the C02 changes from solid to gas it can take alot of heat with it. Which is great for an intercooler.
Great information, i was just considering this on my supercharged miata. The intercooler made a massive difference. It goes without saying that plumbing diameter, length, and size of the intercooler can directly result in a measured pressure drop.
The big drop in boost pressure between the run without and then with that you're seeing is the resistance of the intercooler as well as any difference in density. Also likely the spray may have worked better without airflow as many of these systems are designed to quickly help rid heatsoak vs actually decreasing temps significantly. Heat exchange is always delta temp and delta time in very basic terms. So actually giving the CO2 time to spray and "sit on" the cooler may have helped. But again mostly for getting getting rid of heatsoak after sitting.
You’re right on the pressure drop but not the CO2. The CO2 tank they have isn’t a siphon tank so they’re just spraying gas and not liquid. They’d have needed to invert the tank to go it right.
If you want to make consistent boost pressure, why not put the boost line to the waste gate closer to the intake plenum so the turbo hits higher pressures before aftercooling? Also, if you want to see better results on using cryogenic cooling, try wrapping the coil around the discharge line on the intercooler with smaller diameter lines. You'll increase your surface area to volume ratio and increase the cooling capacity of the CO2 while also decreasing the amount of gas required per degree of cooling.
Sudden end to that video. Did you upload the right version? Would have been nice to see the difference in temp compared to the earlier runs for the last pull as well. Any rule of thumb for how much lower octane that can be run per degree lower of temperature regarding detonation? A knock sensor and pump gas doing it all over again, pushing it right to the edge of detonation, would be really interesting to see.
Windshield washer fluid is cheaper and easier my Evo came stock with it and it works really good after I’ve been driving and have saturated my intercooler with heat
@@KSwapTheWorld69 in the vid they said chilling the cooler doesn’t do much but they started with a cold intercooler when you’ve been driving for a few hours or it’s the middle of the summer and you’re on the highway doing a roll that thing warms up quick windshield washer fluid cools it right out but I think one benefit to the CO2 is you’re not risking getting water or methanol somewhere you don’t want it. You’re right I’ve seen a lot of guys just do that you got a mess with the sprayer on the end of it to get a good misting effect but it works very well and it’s basically free that CO2 set up or using nitrous is absolutely not the cost of nitrous is why I put a blower on my car I was burning through a bottle a day just out having fun. Compared to nitrous that blower paid for itself in a couple of months. And no more nitrous backfires turning the butterfly in my throttlebody into a clam which is also very expensive
My SRT4 came with the same set up with the turbo toys option and it works well....I also use wiper fluid in my SNOW brand water/meth kit because it's chemically the same as the 30 bucks a gallon boost juice they sell...all works great and a must have if you want to run a good amount boost without killing you daily...👍
@@KSwapTheWorld69 true that...the car can't tell the difference between industrial glass cleaner and SNOWs boost juice and the graph isn't any different between the two when doing dyno pulls..👍 easier on my wallet is the only difference I can see so far...
Correct. Turbulent flow inside the intercooler is necessary for as many air molecules to come into contact with the aluminium as possible. If the flow is laminar pressure drop will be reduced but most of the air will not touch the aluminium. As air is a poor heat conductor the molecules contacting the aluminium will insulate those that do not, therefore most molecules will not lose heat. Intercooler design is about finding a balance between restriction and heat transfer.
Love you guys, great info..yet I've got one for you...co2 with water injection..both on fuel and intercooler. Can even over tube the intake tube...way denser air...
I wish you guys would just post screenshots of the dyno results. The camera on a tv thing doesn't show enough definition, and I can't tell the colors apart.
I’ve thought for years about a closed loop low pressure (R-12) refrigerant “tilt coil”as a charge cooler. Only moving part would be a mechanical pivot at the bottom of the coil. As refrigerant liquid flashes to gas in the tilted side of the coil the superheated (cold) gas would migrate to the coil high side condense to liquid, the coil would tilt and start the process over. The only requirement is warm airflow passing through the coil.
The lower boost pressure with the intercooler can also be attributed to pressure drop across the intercooler if it's restrictive. You would need to measure boost before and after the Intercooler to know for sure.
Maybe, but remember, not always boost means something, air density really means something. Some time ago an engine builder explained that, pressure doesnt mean boost, if you increase air temp you create pressure but also reduce density. Lower temp reduces pressure but increase density (More density More Oxigen, more fuel can be injected more power).
Also, yes there are air to air intercoolers for roots blowers. The ford t bird super coupe had one as well as there being aftermarket options to install them on GM 3800 engines.
Just curious of what company sells aftermarket air to air intercooler specifically for gm 3800s? I pretty much only do 3800s and was only aware of zzps water to air and a couple other smaller companies with similar water to air. I know of a few TH-camrs who had air to air setups, just thought they were custom though. Very much appreciate any info. Thanks.
@@pd2340 yella terra or mace? I’ll check. It’s only for the rwd Australian guys. Probably why you haven’t seen much about it in North America. I saw one inbred hick from Nebraska who flipped his m90 upside down and went to an air to air, which is easily the dumbest thing anybody could do lmfao.
Depends on if it's a street car, street race car or straight race car...if it's driven more than raced than A to A is the way if it's main purpose is to be a race car then W to A is the way...W to A gets you the coolest charge but not practical in a street car..
guys use the spray nozzles that you would use on your garden vegy patch the small ones that you put in triclon hose and use a soda stream bottle upside down that is what you would use in a drag car small and light and activate the solinoid when the car goes into boost cheers from down under
I recommend to put the line set going thrue the intercooler. An coming out again.that way it will cool the air sufficiently....it will work then....Joe Hawkins says that Alabama, Blount co. 😊an or add line set off the ac unit in the car to drag race an see...😊
Put the inter-cooler on an NA engine with the C02 chiller. Artificial cooler air / DA modifier. Would be interesting to see if cooler air would out weigh the intake restriction.
The gains are pretty minimal without boost. If you live somewhere where it gets cold your car doesn't just become an animal in the winter despite sometimes below freezing intake temps. Side note: most modern vehicles run heated coolant through their throttle bodies to prevent them from icing up in the winter
The only reason you had a drop of pressure is because you added a restriction to the airflow. High quality mfg will note the pressure drop you should expect out of a particular intercooler model.
You would need to confirm with an actual Chemical Engineer, it requires a lot more energy to change phase from a liquid to gas than it does to raise it from its melting temp to its boiling. For example, water requires 7x more energy to get from 100c to 101c than it does to go from 0c to 100c. The phase change of the fuel is doing a huge amount of cooling of the combustion chamber already. You would be way better off changing to something like E85 so you can add more cooling through fuel evaporation rather than installing a fuel cooler
The CO2 benefits in extended runs, not short bursts or in areas of high heat like Arizona. If youre hot lapping your car, even with the best A2A intercooler youd run into heat soak issues, C02 can help extend those laps or rounds and can be set to activate when a certain IAT goes over a threshold, to keep it in check.
just because i like to stir the pot what about runing a intersooler on the intake of a NA car to get colder air temps ( i think it would not make very much diffrence in temp or power but you never know ) also wouuld just having a air compresser and a tank inset of co2 or nos in the sprayer be any better or worse
A few years ago the wife had a Mazdaspeed 3. We live in Minnesota. Took her car out on a nice crisp -26 degree morning, down the on-ramp and nail the throttle to "merge." Yike... like turning on the nitrous.
I'd revisit again but run until the intercooler is heat soaked. I think where these kits shine is bringing the intercooler temps back down after being soaked with heat. I know after a run my intercooler is quite hot I would think a lot like this would return you intercooler temps to a more reasonable temp mlquicker now obviously a fan going to radiate that heat out just as well but if your in the staging lanes this could bring your temps down a bit before your run
In a real under hood environment it makes a much larger difference because of heat soak, liquid sprayers will bring the temperature down to where your testing was but from a much higher starting temperature
Well, a plenum mounted belt/chain driven supercharger can be cooled, but I believe based on where it is based on the throttle body/carb and the boost component it's called "Intracooling" which is what an LSA is using. The difference being it is water (or some kind of coolant) to air.
Thank you for this. I was thinking of getting a co2 intercooler kit, but its not worth it. Plus you have to somehow carry a co2 bottle in the car. I'm gonna try windshield washer fluid and a garden sprinkler nozzle to spray my intercooler.
I found it interesting the fuel-to-air had to be changed for the differing test conditions.. I was thinking of replacing my factor inter-cooler (my car has a known rod knock fault) but now I'm reconsidering.
God bless all you guys huge names for me. And what you guys have done for me aside from entertain but the knowledge. Thank for your time and knowledge over thee many years. You guys are already Legends📓⛽️
Adding piping and intercooler dropped the pressure at the manifold. Also, bleed valve controlling is a small boost leak and isnt consistent between setups. Digital boost controllers shine in this department and keep the leak sealed off until the last minute which equals faster spool ups.
The ecu should be adjusting the mixture based on the air density which is temperature dependent. I dont understand why they should have to adjust their tuneup unless it was an incomplete tune to begin with.
It would be cool to be able to heat up a chamber around the block and water pump to underhood temps with meal holding that heat there. What about water/ethanol mist? I think an extra washer bottle misting on the intercooler with a fan blowing gets the fins cooler than the CO2. With that kind of setup, it only cools on the surface of the metal and disappates quickly whereas an alcohol mist would make more contact with the fins and evaporate, causing it to cool. That is why its more common to see water sprayers than these co2 things, and the same applies when moving over to a air to water. A metal water tank will just soak up the heat, where as a plastic tank or yeti cooler is made of a heat insulator.
I dont understand why there are no split turbos like they do in f1. I dont feel lit it would be hard. Where the 2 snails are separated and connected by a spinning shaft. Boost side up front by the intercooler and hot side back by the headers. Have you tried that? I would think the separation would make a big difference in heat soak.
I used to have the Evo6 it used to have the intercooler spray and it used to make a difference specially when you’re driving a bit.. I change the water bottle into icebox that was much better made much more horsepower IN lower boost numbers in hot climate
I have an electric A/C compressor from down under. What if you put an evaporator coil in the intercooler and ran the A/C compressor? It seem like it would be more efficient and a closed loop system. Could I put one under my 6-71 with carbs?
I would love to see what we could get in my Kia stinger 3.3 v6 TT I’m at 473/505 on a stage 2 tune with intake exhaust and downpipes. I know with a bigger turbo they got 707
I think the co2 cooler would work more efficiently on the fuel rail. Fogging the a2a with water or methanol seems to drop iat much better so you might try that also.
The water is really the key there. The latent heat of vaporization of water is roughly four times larger than CO2 by weight. Water absorbs a metric buttload of heat energy which is why it's used for engine coolant in the first place. When you mix in evaporative cooling with that also you get even more
The guys missed the fact that this in fact does apply to roots superchargers; yes you cant apply this directly to the intercooler itself but you CAN apply it to an auxiliary heat exchanger it could be connected to
I know the front mount is for the test but can't you put a lil charge cooler in that intake I know there's tops for super chargers and carbs but I think a charge cooler could go in that holley Intake
The cooling effect of the intercooler alone was already enough… had they run higher boost or a smaller intercooler I feel that it would of had a greater effect
Was very interesting, and I'm glad they got to all the resolutions we wanted to see. But man I was worried for a second there; this video almost ended as abruptly as an HBO series.
Between runs if the intercooler heatsoaks we just crack a nitrous bottle on the intercooler to freeze it. It works just as well, is cheaper, and weighs less.
I would have tought you'd gain way more power. Specially if you're always keeping the same boost pressure. Another point about vortech superchargers, the colder the air, the less boost pressure, less pressure means less resistance meaning the supercharger is easier to drive.
it's crazy see just from simple airflow over the intercooler does the grunt of the work on cooling the charged air and adding in the CO2 didn't help much. i'm wondering how cool does the air have to be to reach that plato?
For sure. Something wasn't right if they had to keep adjusting the tune - and nobody even questioned it? Imagine if you had to retune your car just because it was cold outside that day!
It would be worth it on a 100 degree track or on the street in GA. lol. Your temp differential in the dyno room is sweet, no so much against 130 degree pavement.
I posed the question in my head years ago but never attempted it. Could you use an a/c compressor with the system circulated through the jacket of a intercooler??? Any thoughts?
Im actually curious what the results would be like for a car with a top mount intercooler getting plenty of hot air but also has a small amount of fresh air flowing through it
Maybe at a drag night you could have that snake thing attached to your intercooler, hose it down with a big welding bottle like you had for a couple minutes, then do a run on the strip? But certainly otherwise this system does seem kinda superfluous compare to just a good A2A intercooler.
lower air temp makes more power at lower boost but doesn't lower air temps actually increase the boost potential?? I register more boost in the winter than I do in the summer. In PA.
Air density is everything. You can have 100psi of boost but if your intake air temp is high, it's useless. Cold air and lower boost can easily give you more power because your air density is higher, which also means it takes less effort to generate that power output.
How much of the CO2 went into the combustion air displacing burnable air? That's a lot of cubic feet you made in the Dyno room. I probably would have added an outside air vent blowing right in front of the intake tube extension.
Wouldn't using a nitrous injector directly into the start of the inter-cooler, cool the charge and provide more oxygen at the same time rather than spraying CO2 on the inter-cooler itself?
Beer CO2 going in is only hitting it in certain spots and there's a lot of places that it isn't hitting it moved to CO2 to believe from the intercooler about 4 in in blast it with the fan sitting for in away from the two and then it'll go through there better In my mind it might make it cooler😅
You can substitute the big Spacer for an after cooler, some are using under their Roots, and turbos can use both inter and after cooler, you guys need to get out more...
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What lengths would you go to keep your intercooler extra cool?
Doesent one of the hellcats use the air con system to freeze the intake?
Water-methanol injection, how has this channel not done this yet?
Back in the 80's during the Turbo era of Formula 1 before the start of the race the would put dry ice in the inlets of the side pods in front of the intercooler to cool the charge. Not sure exactly how effective it was but if helped them gain a couple of positions at the start it was a benefit.
The lengths of admitting I should not have left youtube.
a water sprayer costs about 50-80 bucks if you wire it properly and use a washer tank. Id go with 5 seconds on the relay and the fine mist greenhouse sprayers. Also, chemical intercooling via water injection/methanol injection. Ive seen them just mist it upstream of the throttle body on the cold side of the intercooler.
Need to continue this. Subaru used liquid sprayers with good results. Also, I wanna see a water to air setup followed by a killer chiller setup using the cars A/C setup.
The original ford lightning used its AC to cool the blower charge.
@ricepony33 Just being pedantic, but the original Ford Lightning didn't have a blower, but used a mildly spiced-up 351. The supercharged 5.4 truck Brian drove in F&F 1 was the 2nd-gen.
@@JETZcorpdid it ticklike my 5.4? 😂
My memory is like a trap, nothing enters and nothing leaves ;) @@JETZcorp
Mighty car mods made a video about this a few years ago
This little trick has been around for years. A cool story from down under.
Year: 1989
Location: Bathurst
Car: Ford Cosworth Sierra (Turbo 2L inline 4 engine)
Peter Brock qualified on pole position after having ridiculous speeds recorded on the two longest straights of the track (mountain and conrod straights).
During post qualifying inspection it was found that the onboard fire extinguisher (CO2) was plummed so it pointed at the intercooler, and Brock let it off going down the long straights, giving the engine more power resulting in a quick lap time. The result stood because their was no rule against it.
You’d think it would fail for no longer having fire suppression
@ShaunHensley Yes, it was the 80s and things were much more relaxed back then. Playing devil's advocate, I guess you can't make it against the rules to "activate" the fire suppression system.
The z18 bluebird piloted by George Fury tested a similar system in 1984.
@noname-sd5dt Really?!!! That's so cool! I didn't know about that. I do recall reading an article somewhere about the qualifying engine, stating it was only in the car for qualification and the top ten shoot-out and that was it. After that, it got replaced with the race engine for the race the next day and pretty much needed a full rebuild after only running a few laps because it was put under so much load from running extremely high boost and being reved so hard.
Definitely revisit this using liquid sprayers. It’s not uncommon for folk to run water/washer fluid/vodka/methanol on A2A intercooler sprayers 🤘🏼
T the vodka half to intercooler half to me.
slight fire hazard spraying that stuff in an already hot engine compartment with the potential of over spray hitting the exhaust but could be ducted away to ground or vertically out the hood
@@snapon666 Water provides no fire hazard
It should be something that arrives as a liquid and phase changes to gas. Liquid Nitrogen would be really good, and alcohol of course, but water absorbs a lot of energy even without changing phase to gas and is not explosive.
OG says water washer fluid (alcohol) vodka /methanol @@RAPXZibit
I didn't know what to expect but I am surprised at the same time. These results are fascinating. As always another great episode.
Ive seen people use solid chunks of C02 stuffed into the intercooler ducting pre send down the 1/4mile. As the C02 changes from solid to gas it can take alot of heat with it. Which is great for an intercooler.
Great information, i was just considering this on my supercharged miata. The intercooler made a massive difference.
It goes without saying that plumbing diameter, length, and size of the intercooler can directly result in a measured pressure drop.
The big drop in boost pressure between the run without and then with that you're seeing is the resistance of the intercooler as well as any difference in density.
Also likely the spray may have worked better without airflow as many of these systems are designed to quickly help rid heatsoak vs actually decreasing temps significantly.
Heat exchange is always delta temp and delta time in very basic terms. So actually giving the CO2 time to spray and "sit on" the cooler may have helped. But again mostly for getting getting rid of heatsoak after sitting.
You’re right on the pressure drop but not the CO2. The CO2 tank they have isn’t a siphon tank so they’re just spraying gas and not liquid. They’d have needed to invert the tank to go it right.
If you want to make consistent boost pressure, why not put the boost line to the waste gate closer to the intake plenum so the turbo hits higher pressures before aftercooling?
Also, if you want to see better results on using cryogenic cooling, try wrapping the coil around the discharge line on the intercooler with smaller diameter lines. You'll increase your surface area to volume ratio and increase the cooling capacity of the CO2 while also decreasing the amount of gas required per degree of cooling.
you 100% can air to air intercool a roots style supercharger. In fact the Thunderbird Supercoupe had that exact configuration.
Exactly. These guys are goofs sometimes.
Comment I was looking for.
Sudden end to that video.
Did you upload the right version?
Would have been nice to see the difference in temp compared to the earlier runs for the last pull as well.
Any rule of thumb for how much lower octane that can be run per degree lower of temperature regarding detonation?
A knock sensor and pump gas doing it all over again, pushing it right to the edge of detonation, would be really interesting to see.
Windshield washer fluid is cheaper and easier my Evo came stock with it and it works really good after I’ve been driving and have saturated my intercooler with heat
I was gonna say the same thing all you have to do is re route the windshield washer pumps to the intercooler
@@KSwapTheWorld69 in the vid they said chilling the cooler doesn’t do much but they started with a cold intercooler when you’ve been driving for a few hours or it’s the middle of the summer and you’re on the highway doing a roll that thing warms up quick windshield washer fluid cools it right out but I think one benefit to the CO2 is you’re not risking getting water or methanol somewhere you don’t want it. You’re right I’ve seen a lot of guys just do that you got a mess with the sprayer on the end of it to get a good misting effect but it works very well and it’s basically free that CO2 set up or using nitrous is absolutely not the cost of nitrous is why I put a blower on my car I was burning through a bottle a day just out having fun. Compared to nitrous that blower paid for itself in a couple of months. And no more nitrous backfires turning the butterfly in my throttlebody into a clam which is also very expensive
My SRT4 came with the same set up with the turbo toys option and it works well....I also use wiper fluid in my SNOW brand water/meth kit because it's chemically the same as the 30 bucks a gallon boost juice they sell...all works great and a must have if you want to run a good amount boost without killing you daily...👍
@@CraigBrosRacing look at the ingredients to windshield washer fluid it's got some Methanol in it, it's not much but it's there
@@KSwapTheWorld69 true that...the car can't tell the difference between industrial glass cleaner and SNOWs boost juice and the graph isn't any different between the two when doing dyno pulls..👍 easier on my wallet is the only difference I can see so far...
The pressure drop you experienced was likely due to adding the intercooler vs not having it. Intercoolers are known for dropping pressures…
Correct. Turbulent flow inside the intercooler is necessary for as many air molecules to come into contact with the aluminium as possible. If the flow is laminar pressure drop will be reduced but most of the air will not touch the aluminium. As air is a poor heat conductor the molecules contacting the aluminium will insulate those that do not, therefore most molecules will not lose heat. Intercooler design is about finding a balance between restriction and heat transfer.
Love you guys, great info..yet I've got one for you...co2 with water injection..both on fuel and intercooler. Can even over tube the intake tube...way denser air...
I wish you guys would just post screenshots of the dyno results. The camera on a tv thing doesn't show enough definition, and I can't tell the colors apart.
THIS
I’ve thought for years about a closed loop low pressure (R-12) refrigerant “tilt coil”as a charge cooler. Only moving part would be a mechanical pivot at the bottom of the coil. As refrigerant liquid flashes to gas in the tilted side of the coil the superheated (cold) gas would migrate to the coil high side condense to liquid, the coil would tilt and start the process over. The only requirement is warm airflow passing through the coil.
I want to run co2 instead of water in the intercooler in my car under a roots blower using a nos solenoid. Thanks for the tip on using the solenoid.
I don’t think the colder air effects the pressure drop as much as adding volume to the system does (by adding the intercooler in the first place)
The lower boost pressure with the intercooler can also be attributed to pressure drop across the intercooler if it's restrictive. You would need to measure boost before and after the Intercooler to know for sure.
Maybe, but remember, not always boost means something, air density really means something. Some time ago an engine builder explained that, pressure doesnt mean boost, if you increase air temp you create pressure but also reduce density. Lower temp reduces pressure but increase density (More density More Oxigen, more fuel can be injected more power).
This set-up looks like something I could use to help cool my Corvair engine's cylinders down.
Also, yes there are air to air intercoolers for roots blowers. The ford t bird super coupe had one as well as there being aftermarket options to install them on GM 3800 engines.
Just curious of what company sells aftermarket air to air intercooler specifically for gm 3800s?
I pretty much only do 3800s and was only aware of zzps water to air and a couple other smaller companies with similar water to air.
I know of a few TH-camrs who had air to air setups, just thought they were custom though.
Very much appreciate any info. Thanks.
@@pd2340 yella terra or mace? I’ll check. It’s only for the rwd Australian guys. Probably why you haven’t seen much about it in North America. I saw one inbred hick from Nebraska who flipped his m90 upside down and went to an air to air, which is easily the dumbest thing anybody could do lmfao.
Would like to see a air to air vs a water to air intercooler test. Trying to decide if the added weight and hassle of the ice is worth the power gains
Depends on if it's a street car, street race car or straight race car...if it's driven more than raced than A to A is the way if it's main purpose is to be a race car then W to A is the way...W to A gets you the coolest charge but not practical in a street car..
Most super expensive hyper cars (example - BUGATTI CHIRON) has A to A intercoolers..most drag cars have W to A..
Drag and drive/no trailer cash days style build.
@@davidjames766 Just go Air to Air for street/strip setup. And if you want get a 50hp shot of nitrous or a methanol injector for when you go racing.
depends on the apparatus making the boost too. I have a water cooled brick under my roots style blower!
guys use the spray nozzles that you would use on your garden vegy patch the small ones that you put in triclon hose and use a soda stream bottle upside down that is what you would use in a drag car small and light and activate the solinoid when the car goes into boost cheers from down under
I recommend to put the line set going thrue the intercooler. An coming out again.that way it will cool the air sufficiently....it will work then....Joe Hawkins says that Alabama, Blount co. 😊an or add line set off the ac unit in the car to drag race an see...😊
what if you add a fan to the spray? should help really getting those temps down
Put the inter-cooler on an NA engine with the C02 chiller. Artificial cooler air / DA modifier. Would be interesting to see if cooler air would out weigh the intake restriction.
The gains are pretty minimal without boost. If you live somewhere where it gets cold your car doesn't just become an animal in the winter despite sometimes below freezing intake temps. Side note: most modern vehicles run heated coolant through their throttle bodies to prevent them from icing up in the winter
The only reason you had a drop of pressure is because you added a restriction to the airflow. High quality mfg will note the pressure drop you should expect out of a particular intercooler model.
The change in boost is most likely pressure drop across the intercooler
Gale Banks would agree that density is better than PSI.
Most sprayers are designed to help temps after several runs when everything is heat soaked. Not necessarily helping your peak numbers at fresh.
dudes im in the uk,we need more roadkill garage,motortrend please,dirt everyday too,the best 4x4 show in the world,
I bet if you mod a roots sc water intercooler to have c02 cycled through it might chill it more, through r32 from the ac compressor might do it to
You guys should have added cold can fuel cooler to the mix. Nearly frozen gasoline helps a lot
You would need to confirm with an actual Chemical Engineer, it requires a lot more energy to change phase from a liquid to gas than it does to raise it from its melting temp to its boiling. For example, water requires 7x more energy to get from 100c to 101c than it does to go from 0c to 100c. The phase change of the fuel is doing a huge amount of cooling of the combustion chamber already. You would be way better off changing to something like E85 so you can add more cooling through fuel evaporation rather than installing a fuel cooler
The CO2 benefits in extended runs, not short bursts or in areas of high heat like Arizona. If youre hot lapping your car, even with the best A2A intercooler youd run into heat soak issues, C02 can help extend those laps or rounds and can be set to activate when a certain IAT goes over a threshold, to keep it in check.
just because i like to stir the pot what about runing a intersooler on the intake of a NA car to get colder air temps ( i think it would not make very much diffrence in temp or power but you never know )
also wouuld just having a air compresser and a tank inset of co2 or nos in the sprayer be any better or worse
I live in Arizona. I bet it would make a big difference here in summer.
A few years ago the wife had a Mazdaspeed 3. We live in Minnesota. Took her car out on a nice crisp -26 degree morning, down the on-ramp and nail the throttle to "merge." Yike... like turning on the nitrous.
I'd revisit again but run until the intercooler is heat soaked. I think where these kits shine is bringing the intercooler temps back down after being soaked with heat. I know after a run my intercooler is quite hot I would think a lot like this would return you intercooler temps to a more reasonable temp mlquicker now obviously a fan going to radiate that heat out just as well but if your in the staging lanes this could bring your temps down a bit before your run
In a real under hood environment it makes a much larger difference because of heat soak, liquid sprayers will bring the temperature down to where your testing was but from a much higher starting temperature
Well, a plenum mounted belt/chain driven supercharger can be cooled, but I believe based on where it is based on the throttle body/carb and the boost component it's called "Intracooling" which is what an LSA is using. The difference being it is water (or some kind of coolant) to air.
Thank you for this. I was thinking of getting a co2 intercooler kit, but its not worth it. Plus you have to somehow carry a co2 bottle in the car. I'm gonna try windshield washer fluid and a garden sprinkler nozzle to spray my intercooler.
just disconnect your windshield washers and run a hose with a nozzle to your intercooler. Thats what a couple of my friends did.
windsreen washer jet's get some newer ones are an eco spray type
I found it interesting the fuel-to-air had to be changed for the differing test conditions.. I was thinking of replacing my factor inter-cooler (my car has a known rod knock fault) but now I'm reconsidering.
Absolutely love to see a cooler with plenums on the long sides. Down with pressure lag!
Might have missed mention of it, but it's also important to avoid the CO₂ being drawn into the engine.
God bless all you guys huge names for me. And what you guys have done for me aside from entertain but the knowledge. Thank for your time and knowledge over thee many years. You guys are already Legends📓⛽️
Adding piping and intercooler dropped the pressure at the manifold.
Also, bleed valve controlling is a small boost leak and isnt consistent between setups. Digital boost controllers shine in this department and keep the leak sealed off until the last minute which equals faster spool ups.
The ecu should be adjusting the mixture based on the air density which is temperature dependent. I dont understand why they should have to adjust their tuneup unless it was an incomplete tune to begin with.
Would love to see a custom inner cooled NA run vs N.A. cool air intake comparison
Been around since pre WWII. Water injection was used on a number of the faster fighter aircraft for all the positives including air density increase.
It would be cool to be able to heat up a chamber around the block and water pump to underhood temps with meal holding that heat there. What about water/ethanol mist? I think an extra washer bottle misting on the intercooler with a fan blowing gets the fins cooler than the CO2. With that kind of setup, it only cools on the surface of the metal and disappates quickly whereas an alcohol mist would make more contact with the fins and evaporate, causing it to cool. That is why its more common to see water sprayers than these co2 things, and the same applies when moving over to a air to water. A metal water tank will just soak up the heat, where as a plastic tank or yeti cooler is made of a heat insulator.
I dont understand why there are no split turbos like they do in f1. I dont feel lit it would be hard. Where the 2 snails are separated and connected by a spinning shaft. Boost side up front by the intercooler and hot side back by the headers. Have you tried that? I would think the separation would make a big difference in heat soak.
Very good episode! Back to the drawing board for more ideas and research 🤔. Thanks for another great video!!
i would have liked to see the intercooler dipped or bathed into liquid nitrogen for fun to see if there is gains/diminished gains at extreme low temps
Did the trigger spray 807 not also have the fan tho? Like you still need moving air to force the co2 through the core and help cool the charge air...
> Can't use air to air with a roots
*Ford Supercoupe enters the chat*
Side mount Rootes blower on an inline engine can run an air to air intercooler, Dave.
I used to have the Evo6 it used to have the intercooler spray and it used to make a difference specially when you’re driving a bit.. I change the water bottle into icebox that was much better made much more horsepower IN lower boost numbers in hot climate
Great video, would this work for a supercharged vehicle with a heat exchanger?
I have an electric A/C compressor from down under. What if you put an evaporator coil in the intercooler and ran the A/C compressor? It seem like it would be more efficient and a closed loop system. Could I put one under my 6-71 with carbs?
Was about to say the same. lol. Been wondering about this for a while also.
I'm running a 6-71 on a Chevy inline 6 292 with a Ryan Falconer V-12 head. I thought about freezing the whole intake.@@SPEEDOFDOG
Get junkyard Nissan leaf air conditioner or some other electric vehicles
Yes
The fuel evaporation pulls heat from the intake charge, I think they tested that on a previous Engine Masters episode.
I would love to see what we could get in my Kia stinger 3.3 v6 TT I’m at 473/505 on a stage 2 tune with intake exhaust and downpipes. I know with a bigger turbo they got 707
You can use an air to air in a roots supercharger. They are just rare. Thunderbird super coupes have air to air root superchargers.
I think the co2 cooler would work more efficiently on the fuel rail. Fogging the a2a with water or methanol seems to drop iat much better so you might try that also.
The water is really the key there. The latent heat of vaporization of water is roughly four times larger than CO2 by weight. Water absorbs a metric buttload of heat energy which is why it's used for engine coolant in the first place. When you mix in evaporative cooling with that also you get even more
The guys missed the fact that this in fact does apply to roots superchargers; yes you cant apply this directly to the intercooler itself but you CAN apply it to an auxiliary heat exchanger it could be connected to
I know the front mount is for the test but can't you put a lil charge cooler in that intake I know there's tops for super chargers and carbs but I think a charge cooler could go in that holley Intake
The cooling effect of the intercooler alone was already enough… had they run higher boost or a smaller intercooler I feel that it would of had a greater effect
Was very interesting, and I'm glad they got to all the resolutions we wanted to see. But man I was worried for a second there; this video almost ended as abruptly as an HBO series.
There was a build trend for a long time to have the v-mount intercooler with the air filter inlet above the intercooler. It always really bugged me.
I wanna see this on an air to water intercooler that is generally SUPER hot (like most factory supercharged vehicles)
Between runs if the intercooler heatsoaks we just crack a nitrous bottle on the intercooler to freeze it. It works just as well, is cheaper, and weighs less.
I would have tought you'd gain way more power. Specially if you're always keeping the same boost pressure.
Another point about vortech superchargers, the colder the air, the less boost pressure, less pressure means less resistance meaning the supercharger is easier to drive.
it's crazy see just from simple airflow over the intercooler does the grunt of the work on cooling the charged air and adding in the CO2 didn't help much. i'm wondering how cool does the air have to be to reach that plato?
Do a test with the inner cooler with dry ice in the top of it.Make a hole in a cap and fill up the top and dry ice
So what is wrong with the air temp compensation table? That’s why that table exists in a efi system , to add fuel in colder more dense air
For sure. Something wasn't right if they had to keep adjusting the tune - and nobody even questioned it? Imagine if you had to retune your car just because it was cold outside that day!
Can I use the CO2 foggers on my engine radiator to cool down my engine more
It would be worth it on a 100 degree track or on the street in GA. lol. Your temp differential in the dyno room is sweet, no so much against 130 degree pavement.
I posed the question in my head years ago but never attempted it. Could you use an a/c compressor with the system circulated through the jacket of a intercooler??? Any thoughts?
Do different size spark plug wires make more power?
They can solve spark problems at big boost levels, enabling more power from more boost
Im actually curious what the results would be like for a car with a top mount intercooler getting plenty of hot air but also has a small amount of fresh air flowing through it
I know it’s mainly a gas engine channel. Could you do something like this for diesel. 5.9 24 valve
Why can't we get the motortrend app in the uk anymore?????
I don't understand half of what's being said, but I enjoy it all.
Maybe at a drag night you could have that snake thing attached to your intercooler, hose it down with a big welding bottle like you had for a couple minutes, then do a run on the strip? But certainly otherwise this system does seem kinda superfluous compare to just a good A2A intercooler.
lower air temp makes more power at lower boost but doesn't lower air temps actually increase the boost potential?? I register more boost in the winter than I do in the summer. In PA.
Air density is everything. You can have 100psi of boost but if your intake air temp is high, it's useless. Cold air and lower boost can easily give you more power because your air density is higher, which also means it takes less effort to generate that power output.
Did Brulee put any more timing in it in lieu of the lower intake temps?
id think a air flow comparison would help makes me think the inter cooler frosted up and restricted flow when it was saturated
How much of the CO2 went into the combustion air displacing burnable air? That's a lot of cubic feet you made in the Dyno room. I probably would have added an outside air vent blowing right in front of the intake tube extension.
Won't the addition of the intercooler cause a restriction in the system? That would explain some of the drop in pressure on the second test.
they showed that. watch again.
For safety why not e85?
Snow performance for the win.
Well you could remote mount roots supercharger and run a front mount
water sprayers work good on an air to air... with air flow... can you guys test it
Wouldn't using a nitrous injector directly into the start of the inter-cooler, cool the charge and provide more oxygen at the same time rather than spraying CO2 on the inter-cooler itself?
The spray should help cool the radiator as well.
Beer CO2 going in is only hitting it in certain spots and there's a lot of places that it isn't hitting it moved to CO2 to believe from the intercooler about 4 in in blast it with the fan sitting for in away from the two and then it'll go through there better
In my mind it might make it cooler😅
Did this several years ago with CO2 to water intercooler increase 80 100 HP increase per 1000 HP with just a Buick v6
Thought about this very thing for years and now I know. 👍
Under a hot hood and with out that super fan I bet this would get good numbers
I am surprised you didnt do " back to back" runs to see how it did with heat soak 😮
You can substitute the big Spacer for an after cooler, some are using under their Roots, and turbos can use both inter and after cooler, you guys need to get out more...