I'm a 45-70 hunter, usually running a 305 gr bullet. I live and hunt the eastern woodlands, 95 percent of my kills was less than 100 yards. Not saying it's a God tier round, but I love this round and it's great. I grew up with a 3030 but found the 45-70 and it changed alot for me. It's an amazing round to reload.
I do not think the 45-70 is over rated at all. With modern powders and bullets it has very good performance. Even with black powderand lead cast bullets it is very effective. In my own experience, a 405 grain lead bullet usually blows straight thru a white tail deer. Loaded light it works well on small deer and prong horn. Loaded heavy, it works well on elk, moose and bear. All that tells me the 45-70 is not over rated. People that think that just dont have any real experience or developed knowledge of the 45-70.
The same can be said of the 30-06 as far as useage on game. I've owned multiple 45-70's, still own two. Have hunted with them and have a good idea of what they can do. Far too many people talk like it is some sort of cannon. It is not, but it is a good cartridge with a lot of capability, lets just keep it realistic.
Lol let’s step that back. A cartridge with 40-50 gr of powder cap(45-70), AT BEST equals the 300 WM in energy . Sounds like an ultra efficient cartridge to me. I totally agree that goes out the window when shooting over 100 yards or so but inside of 100 that 45-70 is very deadly. I normally just load a 405 speer at ~1800 ft/sec but again considering it’s a little 18” barrel carbine it’s very deadly.
I don't own one, 45-70. But it's part of history just like the 30-06 . The fact that there still around makes them great. In the 100 yard woods ,I'm sure it still gets it done.
You're right, there's a lot of mystique around the 45-70 that simply isn't true. Where I hunt I seldom shoot over about 60 or 70 yards and I like the idea of only needing to buy primers and powder in this current market. Plus, there's something cool about shooting game with a bullet that you make at home. I never shot a deer with a cast bullet from a 300 win mag, but I'll bet it doesn't work as good as a 45-70 with a cast bullet. To each his own I guess.
As a 45-70 fanatic everything you said is true. But there is just something cool about a lever gun shooting .45 caliber bullets that can weigh from 300 to 540 gr. I think of it as like the 45 ACP of the rifle world. I think it shines the best as a close range rifle. Yes I do agree it is overrated. People constantly treat 45-70 as like death ray.
well, first off with practice you can drastically improve the speed at which you work a bolt action to the point where its almost as fast a a double rifle in 2 shots. second, garret isnt taking new customers atm so for the majority your point is moot but even if he was, i would take a 250 grain .338 partition at 1100 ft/lb more muzzle energy over anything garret makes for the situation you propose. and id rather have a .35 whelen than either.
@@hotramen5952lever guns are better balanced and usually with a shorter barrel and more natural point of aim. Also pointed bullets no matter the cartridge have a higher chance of deflected off thick brush. Not everyone has the time or the money to become as proficient with pointing shooting and reloading their bolt gun as they are their lever gun.
In an episode of "Alaska State Troopers", they went out to a trailer park for a domestic violence call. The lady who called said, "He's in there with his 45 70. Its a gun that will BLOW A BEAR'S FACE CLEAN OFF." Lol.
I understand that the aficionado crowd of any cult cartridge needs a reality check now and again but I do disagree with DDO on a couple points. First, I think it is a waste to shoot light bullets from a .45-70. The very poor velocity retention of these light bullets, even over the short ranges they are intended for, make other cartridges a better choice. I feel the .45-70 is at it's best when fired from a modern firearm that is intended for SAAMI pressure levels. Cast or jacketed bullets should not be lighter than 400 grains, and be aware that most jacketed bullets are not intended for full power loads (I find Hawk bullets to be the best, and 450's will function in most modern repeaters). Otherwise I would generally agree with DDO. Here in the northeast of the lower 48 shots over 150 yards are uncommon and the big bullet and light rifle combination is appealing for bears and moose.
Has a trajectory like a rainbow but it’s still my favorite gun. My 1895 is my go to in bear country…which is where I live. Also, its fun to drop elk with. Yeah there are better options but isn’t there always?
I am a .45-70 fan. I agree with your listed limitations, and I hunt within those limitations. Thank you for mentioning the nostalgia and connection to history - this is one of my primary reasons for using this caliber. Another reason, as you mentioned, is the handiness of the Marlin 1895 platform. I think your review was fair, and I like that you also smile when shooting this cartridge :)
I have both a .30-06 and a 1895 .45-70. If I am out hiking and camping in bear country I will probably be packing the .45-70 with Buffalo Bore heavy loads, but if I am going hunting I will take my .30-06 every time.
I don't care if it's over or under rated cartridge. I reload and cast bullets for it and I love my 1895 45-70. Very versatile round and it will do anything I want it to do, Besides I love its rich history. It is a survivor.
Now how fast can you shoot 2-3 shots of 300 WM in your bolt hunting rifle at a bear charging compared to a lever rifle 45-70? Not saying it’s a world of difference but the gun world is synonymous with saying “seconds count”
@@JAC8504 you can get lever guns in hard hitting .30 cal cartridges. My Dad's Remington pump action in .30-06 is fast as hell especially if you are used to running a pump shotgun. Straight pull bolt actions are popular for fast shooting on running boar in Europe. Some provincial wildlife offices in Canada have selected the AR-10 in .308 for bear defense purposes. I'd rather any of them over a .45-70 levergun for moose and charging bear. My opinion only, it"s worth what you paid for it.😜
A modern 45-70 lever gun with a 400 grain bullet loaded to 1,900+ fps has about the same trajectory as a 30-30 carbine loaded with 170 grain bullets, so the rainbow trajectory mantra is bogus. When the 45-70 is loaded with smokeless powder to the same pressure level as the 30-30, it becomes a completely different cartridge. The 30-30 owes its popularity entirely due to its relatively flat trajectory (enabled by smokeless powder) compared to black powder cartridges of the era, one of which was the 45-70. If a 30-30 is adequate for close range (
I am no "one cartridge is best" type but 45-70 is one hell of a round. It's about the most popular caliber in Alaska, mainly due to almost every bush pilot having one in their planes. I have/had .458 Lott, .416 Mag, 30-06, etc, etc but always took my Wild West Guns Marlin Guide Gun 18.5" 45-70 loaded w/BB 430gr HC loaded to 1925fps when I took my family camping in the Alaska woods. The gun is quick to reload, the round crushes through bone/gristle, and the recoil is far less than a .458 Lott or .416 RM. It's about the right cartridge for the job and there are some jobs the 45-70 is perfect for IMHO.
Another myth is that's its "the most popular cartridge in Alaska". I spend a great deal of time in Alaska every year and have family in the guide business there. Very few people carry a 45-70 these days.
I plan to go elk hunting next fall in Idaho with some friends. If I have a tag in my pocket I’ll have my 30-06 but for the pack out or if I’m only there to be a pack mule I’ll be toting the 45-70. DD can say what he likes, but if a bear is trying to put its tonsils on me I’d rather have ~400 gr at 1800 over 200 gr at 2700. I have zero doubt that 45-70 is up to task and it’s a nice handy rifle at that. Also I believe you about pilots opting for 45-70’s. I have a 416 Rem and I love it and it’s more powerful but it’s a big ol honkin gun. I’d much rather get in and out of a bush plane with a nice trim lever gun
45-70 is great for a black powder target cartridge. 500gr bullet going about 1200 fps out of a reproduction sharps, Ballard, high wall or rolling block rifle. A lot of guys shoot said rifles at crazy ranges with the 45-70. I agree it's more of a fun cartridge. It's good at the role of a hunting cartridge in states where you can't use bottle neck cartridge. In the 1870's at the hight of Buffalo hunting hunters actually preferred cartridges like 50-90, 45-100 and 45-110. The reason why 45-70 lingered on was because it was a military cartridge, 45-70 was also relatively popular during the Alaskan gold rush. Also folks like myself who shoot reproduction single shot black powder rifles for competition kept the cartridge alive. As a BP shooter I recognize it's limitations. It's not the best thing to hunt with, especially large game. For hunting purposes 45-70 is best served as a quick handling close range compact utility rifle. Going back to black powder cartridge shooting, the reason why 45-70 is popular is because it's easy to load for, it's very accurate and has lower recoil. The true Buffalo cartridges like 45-110 or 50-90, tend to be more difficult to load for, recoil a lot more are not as accurate and can be very finicky. True Buffalo rifles made in the 1870's weighed a little over 20lbs. Had bull barrels. That's a little anecdote for y'all. 45-70 has it's place in competition but in the hunting world it's mediocre. I'll admit I'm a fan boy and I have a soft spot for 45-70 as far as historical and recreational purposes. On hunts my 1874 Shilho Sharps 45-70 stays in the safe. On the range I shoot the bejesus out of her.
The .45-70 remained relevant in large part because of repeating rifles and a smooth transition to smokeless powder. Until powders like 5744 came along it was dicey reloading the older black powder rounds with smokeless. I have been tempted to try the single shot BP route but have not bothered because the best years of my hunting adventures are behind me now.
Yeah it's a bit dated and there are better options but I think 45 70 for the most part is a nostalgia trip or cool factor, its why I reload and have my Henry. Is my Henry gonna be used for deer, not really that's why I have my 6.5 creedmoor. Is it gonna be used for home defense, no I have my ar for that. Am I ever gonna be put in a position where I'd need a quick rifle in bear country, nope. It's pushing a massive chunk of lead and hearing it smack the shit out of steel makes me feel warm. Everything said was valid though.
I like the fact that the 45-70 wont travel as far if your shot is deflected while hunting weather you hit a limb or a rock etc. A 7mm or 308 or 30-06 can go a long way before they stop. I am not hunting anything bigger than deer in southern Tennessee. Most of my shot are 80 yrds. I hunt with a 45-70 ,30-30, and 50 caliber flintlock. Nothing against anything you said at all and I do agree that 45-70 isn't the finger of God but I love mine for what I do with it. I have never thought of it as a steel ringer but more like a tool to provide food for my family. I actually want a 30-06 and have 6.5 creedmore and .243 also. All have served me well.
I can safely load a Speer, 120 grain, cast, 458" round ball w/ 3.0 grains of Red Dot. Runs about 700 fps out of my Marlin. Same round ball w/ 10.0 grains of Unique powder is a little overkill for grouse. Head / neck shots only ...
I would suggest a big, heavy, flatness bullet does not need high velocity to do it's job on prey. Yes I know we live in the age hyper-velocity hunting cartridges also have to meet a cape buffalo or rhino here in the USA, LOL.
Thank you for a great explanation about this. I have listened to these fantasy stories since I was a kid, but the numbers never added up. I’ll stick with my 30-06 for most of my hunting.
I have to disagree with your opinion on single shot hunting rifles. My first deer rifle was a NEF superlight in 243 which I purposely got because it was pretty much perfect (or so I thought) for stalking whitetails in the northeast woods and taking shots well inside of 100 yards. More recently, I've killed 5 pronghorns over the past 12 years, all with 1 shot at ranges from 240-400 years. Sure I was using a different rifle, but in all cases 1 shot was sufficient. I feel that using a single shot rifle taught me to first be proficient with my rifle, and also made me a better hunter by getting or waiting for a good, clean, ethical shot since that first one better be a good one.
But you can be proficient with a bolt-action rifle as well and have the ability for a follow up shot when everything doesn't workout perfectly. A lot of variables involved with hunting as I'm sure you know. "One shot one kill" sounds cool in theory and it works out that way more times than not but I'd rather have the ability for a follow up than not.
growing up with an open sighted 22 single shot rifle, which as I write these words is standing by the front door, I learned to take very careful shots. definitely made me a better hunter
45-70 is a novelty. If you are daydreaming about North America big game hunting with a 45-70, switch over to the 35 Whelan or 338 Win mag. I have loaded 45-70 ammo and shot a few lever and single shot rifles in 45-70. Recoil was too much . I know the Hornady 350 gr. Soft point flat nose loaded a top of a max charge of IMR 3031 in lever action Marlin was good killer of hogs.
G'day from Australia. my mate's 45/70 has been dubbed " The artillery " because he tends to lob those big old rounds in close to fleeing ferals at distance but rarely connects. The impact on the ground near them is impressive though.
I'm a big fan of .308 and 30-06, but I still want a Marlin Trapper in 45/70. There is just something about a short handy thumper to carry as a Grizzly attack communication device.
I'm a bow hunter at heart and have been for 50 years now. I hunt with a rifle or muzzle loader the same way I bow hunt, 30-yard shot spots, and hunting in the dang thick stuff. The 45/70 at 40 yards or less will do the job intended.
Agree with every point made here. With that being said I just bought my first 45-70 Henry all-weather. For me it’s the perfect solution to some problems I ran into where I hunt. I needed a short, compact rifle to hunt super thick brush with enough power and fast reloads to stop a bear. Also lever actions are plain awesome and I like to buy made in USA whenever I can 😎 Thanks for the video!
Been thinking about a lever gun in 45-70 I’m in a straight wall state ( lucky me) and it seems like a solid round for the distances we would be hunting at. My oldest son( 14 ) also wants one when he turns 18 and starts to go on fishing trips in some of the northern and western states for bear and pissed off moose defense. Still trying to learn as much as possible about the cartridge.
I just bought the new Ruger made Marlin SBL 45-70 and it has been a blast. Probably my favorite gun (and i have more than a few lol) pricey since they just came out a little over a year ago but has been well worth it. Ammo is very expensive though (around $60-$90 per box of 20) anyway, id say go for it if you can whip up the cash
I have a Henry all weather 45-70 I absolutely love it. But it’s my whitetail and black bear rifle, it works very well for me I’ve never shot a deer that’s went more than 10-15 yards … I do hunt at archery ranges 50 yards would be my max distance I shoot…. If I was going out west or hunting a diffrent area I would change set ups but it works for me and I love shooting it 😊
I’m happy with my 45-70 , for my needs, it was never intended to shoot beyond 100 yards. I do feel very safe, carrying it around on my shoulder though. 👊
Camera angle makes it look like the Zebra mare in your painting is feeding from your powder funnel. Gotta ask, was that intentional? Good for a grin either way.
Why did you make this video? Your content is obvious, and should be well known, for moderately experienced and intelligent shooters and hunters, and we certainly do not select it for dangerous or big game hunting. But you make us all so sad, since we still love 45-70. Stop it!
This calibre has the ballistic coefficiency of a gumby van flying through the air.Its an antiquated round that has been surpassed by many other calibres. No thanks,i will stay with my 300PRC and 300WM.
I own a 45/70 Springfield 1873 because I wanted its history to hold on to for a while. I haven't shot my 7MM 08 in a few years now. My 45/70 is set up for a great 100-yard deer or black bear rifle. I shoot 45/70-500 black powder loads. I have 7 vintage original boxes full but cannot bring myself to shoot the Oldtimers. Reloading ammo with an old Lee Loader works fine.
I like my 1895 Marlin 45-70 with light black powder equivalent smokeless loads. It’s a great range toy. My hunting rifles are 30-06, 308 and 270. I also have a 358 Win that satisfies my desire for a big bore bolt gun. Good video!!!
For a saddle rifle or short range, quick response, from Grizzly, it is a +, I think they should remake a heavier lever gun to handle a more modern load. I had one save our lives, Grizzly came up behind and to the side, we never heard him, much less saw him, by luck the P.H. looked behind us, turned and dropped to a knee, shot it in the head and broke its neck, or it would have been bloody. Great Show. If you looking for content, go threw the family of cartridges, you have a good start on the "06" family. and the "308" family, Mauser family perhaps. You would be surprised. There are people out there who were never raised around fire arms. So whatever is on youtube is their only teacher. And now they own a gun. Great Show.
In Clyde Williamson’s Book , he showed loads for the 33 Winchester 1886 lever gun , at 2400 fps using a .338 cal, bullet I think it was a 180 gr, that would be a stout round for someone looking for a good lever gun in bear 🐻 county.
45-70 still has its place. I agree on most of it. But it has a really cool history. It can be a great round out of a modern single shot for the Midwest white tail guys. It can be loaded up or loaded to trap door specs. It’s versatile and will probably be around for awhile yet.
Great video DD. I had always believed the myths you discussed today. Probably because I've read so many comments by people using the 45-70 in Guide Guns for bear protection.
For close up 12 gauge with slugs. 338 wm or 375 h&h for over all hunting is better choice. I had a 45-70 make a good black bear brush gun. I would opt for grizzly in camp close 12 gauge with slugs further than in camp 338 wm or 375 h&h better options than 45-70
Look at 44 mag. I use one in Pennsylvania. Steep rocky thick hardwood forest,with mix of spruce hemlock pine. And so far the 44 has either put the deer down or very short blood trail. And complete pass throughs. Mine is brass Henry big boy. I'm using 240 grn hard cast .430 gas checked. From Montana bullet works. Also very accurate.
Interesting discussion. I noted your reference to “a hunting cartridge”. That’s an interesting point. When I’m up in the Yukon, I pack an 1895 SBL with stiff 460 hard cast flat point bullets and thought I had the best / handiest set up. I still think that but as you stated I’m not hunting and when I am I pack a 300, 338 or 375. I’ll have to ponder your point further.
My pet peeve are the folks that puff up their chests and rave about the fierce recoil from the standard 45-70 commercial loads. Oh man are those guys tough! In their minds anyway. It's equal to 70 grains of black powder. A LIGHT muzzleloading hunting load. Adequate but nothing special. It was designed for people sized targets, not buffalo.
As an eastern woods cartridge it's been great for me. Where most shots are measured in feet and not yards it's really been my darling. I do not handload for this cartridge, it's my only rifle I do not own dies for. Anyways. If Im hunting in thicker woods (85%+ of the hunting here in VT) my JM stamped Marlin 1895G running buffalo bore 300gr JHP's is my go too... I don't hunt with the 45-70 because I think it has dangerous game stopping power, I use it because it's super effective on Whitetail and black bear within its range limitations. It's a short, fast handling and fairly light package that offers me reasonable velocity, (~2200fps) with maximum frontal diameter for a lever gun. A 300gr JHP will expand quickly and dump nearly all of its energy within a deer. The 300gr JHP from Buffalo Bore expands to about 1" and will penetrate deer and black bear adequately from broadside to quartering to full on frontal shots. I wouldn't want to shoot it much past 100-125 yards. I'm curious how the 350gr & 405gr JFN's perform, but the 300gr'ers have worked and I'm not trying to fix what's not broken. My Marlin 1895G shoots a 3 shot group @ 100yd between 1.5"-1.75" if I do my part. About 2 moa is completely acceptable (to me) as long as you don't try to stretch it's limits. In the woods, where shots rarely come much past 100yds, the 45-70 is awesome imo. * I lose about 140 fps due to the short barrel of the 1895 guide gun. However Ive never had a bear or deer notice. For most other hunting, I'm taking a bolt gun. The last couple years I've favored the model 70 Featherweight in 30-06.
Every tool has its uses. The 45-70 is a good nostalgic round. Hell, the made the 450 Bushmaster which is basically the same only being able to shoot out of an AR platform. If you expect an elephant to fly you are going to be sadly dissapointed.
I think you made great points. I was researching as you were talking and you were spot on. My gripe is that it’s mostly from a hunting perspective. Although , I do think this point is minimized as both have been proven as African “big-five” capable cartridges. As a guide gun, I would much rather have a shorter lever 45-70 than a .30-06. One thing you forgot to mention too, which is relevant with the new(er) ruger/marlin 1895, is suppressability. For an overall self defense weapon, inside 100yds, I think the 45-70 is a much better choice. I believe the 45-70 performance was targeted with the .458 socom and .50 Beowulf cartridges for the AR platform, which to me strengthens the self defense argument.
Have multiple 30-06 and 45-70s. The 30-06 is more practical, the 45-70 is just fun. Since I’m not a subsistence hunter I have no problem limiting shot opportunities because it’s fun sometimes. I have a couple single shots in 45-70, no thanks on the hotter than marlin loads. 400ish grains at 1300 fps is what I mostly shoot (although not what I’d hunt with of course here in CA). I also prefer loading straight wall cartridges, not that I can’t load bottlenecks.
I agree with what your saying. The one caveat I would add though, is that a large bullet transfers energy faster. Obviously depending on bullet construction but if the round doesn’t pass through the animal that can be ok. But your right on for large game animals I really wouldn’t choose a 45-70.
Agree. The 45-70 is no heavy hide dangerous game cartridge for Africa. It is however excellent at everything else at close ranges. Modern bullet offerings in 458 are awesome. Lots of myths about its power that should be called out but it is darn effective at killing big game and leaving blood trails. I think that like 8mm 9mm and 38 special, there should be different factory pressure specs made and stamped on the barrel, head, and box. +P or +P+. Too much unsafe confusion around max chamber pressure and what rifles can take the pressure and thrust.
Where 45-70 is really fun is out of a long barrel Sharp or rolling block with black powder and a 500gr or heavier bullet. Is the 45-70 magic? No, even in it's black powder hey day there were a ton of cartridges that out performed it like the 45-90, 45-100, 44-77 etc. etc. but it was decent and military acceptance then like now can really make a cartridge when it comes to commercial sales. She is an old gal with a rainbow trajectory and a time of flight at longer ranges that almost gives you time to sip your sweet tea before it get's to the target, but when those slow fat bullets hit steel at 500+ yards it sure puts a smile on your face. Think I will take my rolling block to the range this weekend and let the old girl make some noise 😊
This whole discussion proves one major statement that's been around longer than the 45/70. That's why people bet on horse races. One a newer reference it's why we have chocolate & vanilla. It's called opinion! If you have that caliber, of which I have two, or if you want one, then get it. They are fun to shoot & even hunt with but as with drinking, be responsible. Know your ability & shooting skills, the firearm's limits & don't take long unethical shots you wouldn't normally take for your equipment. A lot of game has hit the ground in it's career. I feel certain of that. I wouldn't call a 600 yard shot with a 30-30 ethical either even though some may have done this. Shoot what you want & stay within you & your equipment's capabilities. Don't take a knife to a gunfight. Good video though.
I enjoyed your video personally I see the 45-70 like a multi tool it's a good gun to fill multiple roles but not particularly good any one job. There only two things in your video that had me rise an eyebrow at that's your brush shooting comment I haven't really seen enough evidence to through my vote one way or the other. Then the next about the date of the cartridge but I could be mis remembering that be fun to dive back into that study. Thanks for the video and stay safe till next time.
@@Peter-od7op I recall a magazine article on the topic decades ago that used the same method, dowel rods driven through a backer board and used as "brush". As I recall the bullets that did best were both large in bore/weight and driven very fast.
Great video DD. But I still love my 45-70 yeah it's not the best at range and drops off fast but the history keeps me coming back with the right ammo it does a good job for dropping deer and black bear. But if someone wants go for big game with a lever gun go with a 45-90 or a .405 win. Yeah I don't reach for my 45-70 when rifle opens I normal reach for my .338 RCM.. Keep it up bud even if people "don't" like it.
I do like the 45-70 and respect it for what it’s accomplished. It drives me crazy though when people say it’s a great dangerous game cartridge. It’s nowhere near as impressive on dangerous game. I’ve watched several deer killed with 45/70 and helped skin many of them, and their is no comparison between it and my 416 rem and 416 Taylor improved effect on deer. I can only imagine how much more the 416’s outclass it against a Cape buffalo. Much less how it fairs against the true big bore dangerous game cartridges. I’m not hating on the cartridge at all, I just get tired of hearing the internet myth around this cartridge and it’s insane ability to power slam the biggest game on earth 🤣
I have a reproduction Sharps that I bought about 30 years ago, it has a 30-inch barrel and I have ran 405 grain bullets backed with 70 grains of FFG black powder and it's fun to shoot, I also have rounds that I have loaded up with 515 grain lead cast bullets from wheel weights, but all in all, I can use it for primitive firearm hunts as well as just to go out and shoot it.
It's kinda like a Harley Davidson. It's not the best handling, fastest or reliable bike but it's damn cool and I wouldn't give up my "govt." For anything and it's killed it's share of animals.
Uh oh, I feel the force in the air. I think .35 Whelen is far superior anyway. I'm not in a straight wall State, so that doesn't factor in to my decisions. Even then, I would probably go with a .350 Legend or .450 Bushmaster.
All of your points are solid. I love casting, reloading 45-70. I guess the mystic grabs me more than data. But I'm not a hunter so I don't need the capabilities my hunting brothers need. I just love it for what it is.
Everything you said is bang on. If you're concerned about shortages, not sure there's a better option overall for casters. Also, the modern 45-70 rifles are just undeniably cool! Finally, overrated doesn't mean "bad.". There were a few years there when the hype was just over the top. My fav. rifle by far is my 1895 with a few RPP upgrades. Great video, thanks!
My friend convinced me a while back to try 500auto Max because I was often killing 400-500lb wild hogs from 10ft or less. I bought one, great fun,works, but I don't use it anymore because slugs at that distance work fine and are 50cents each. Makes no sense to spend more to use a cool gun, my SX3 slugger works fine.
It may not meet the same criteria as far as energy and foot pounds in feet per second but with large heavy bullets loaded to the Max 4 deep penetration would be my choice for Bear protection for close range
This is all true. People do have a false impression of the 45-70. I like 45-70 because of the fact that it DOES move slow. I don’t like to hunt over 150 yards, so I don’t need the power to get way on out there. A really heavy bullet moving slower hits different than a smaller fast moving bullet. You can’t doubt the devastation done to the animal when you shoot one with a 45-70. Yes there are definitely better rounds to use for hunting different regions. But for those who like it for what it is that’s okay. I love it, it’s my favorite round. But I don’t go around saying it’s the best. I like it for the fun, for the historical aspect of it speaking how it’s one of the oldest rounds out there, and I like it because I love Henry lever guns. Great video sir it needed to be said lol
I love a 45-70. 405 grain cast lead bullets will drop in the same spot , and I know how to find that spot out to 200 yards. It is my favorite feral hog cartridge.
Actually, Quigley says YOU are wrong! He didn't shoot (or like) the 45-70. He shot the 45-120 long-range cartridge. But even then; a 300 Win has more energy at 200-yards than Quigley's loads had at the muzzle.
The 45-70 is a great round and historic. But, if I was headed into grizzly country, I would bring my 458 win mag and load up a couple boxes with 450 grain Barnes TSX bullets. But thats me. A bolt action can be worked as quickly as a lever action.
Good video. I guess there are some uses for 45-70 as mentioned but I would never pick it over the 30-06 for hunting big game. I’ve never had one but I’ve long thought it was overrated.
Offering to the algorithm gods.
Yep. Gotta throw one out there once in a while. Not my favorite vids, but forcing offended people to watch and comment keeps the channel relevant.
Clickbaaaaaaiiiiiittt!!!! Lol. Good video as always
the 45-70 was new in 1873 and we still talk about it i think that says something
I'm a 45-70 hunter, usually running a 305 gr bullet. I live and hunt the eastern woodlands, 95 percent of my kills was less than 100 yards. Not saying it's a God tier round, but I love this round and it's great. I grew up with a 3030 but found the 45-70 and it changed alot for me. It's an amazing round to reload.
I do not think the 45-70 is over rated at all. With modern powders and bullets it has very good performance. Even with black powderand lead cast bullets it is very effective. In my own experience, a 405 grain lead bullet usually blows straight thru a white tail deer. Loaded light it works well on small deer and prong horn. Loaded heavy, it works well on elk, moose and bear. All that tells me the 45-70 is not over rated. People that think that just dont have any real experience or developed knowledge of the 45-70.
The same can be said of the 30-06 as far as useage on game. I've owned multiple 45-70's, still own two. Have hunted with them and have a good idea of what they can do. Far too many people talk like it is some sort of cannon. It is not, but it is a good cartridge with a lot of capability, lets just keep it realistic.
I feel a disturbance in the force. Like 100,000 cowboys cried out at once and we're silenced by desert dog
Rofl!
Darth Dog!
@@paulsimmons5726 LMAO
There isn’t even 100,000 people that know who this guy is. Your number is greatly overrated.
@@SIRJ1895 joke went right over your head didn't it? Bless your heart
Lol let’s step that back. A cartridge with 40-50 gr of powder cap(45-70), AT BEST equals the 300 WM in energy . Sounds like an ultra efficient cartridge to me. I totally agree that goes out the window when shooting over 100 yards or so but inside of 100 that 45-70 is very deadly. I normally just load a 405 speer at ~1800 ft/sec but again considering it’s a little 18” barrel carbine it’s very deadly.
I don't own one, 45-70.
But it's part of history just like the 30-06 . The fact that there still around makes them great.
In the 100 yard woods ,I'm sure it still gets it done.
You're right, there's a lot of mystique around the 45-70 that simply isn't true. Where I hunt I seldom shoot over about 60 or 70 yards and I like the idea of only needing to buy primers and powder in this current market. Plus, there's something cool about shooting game with a bullet that you make at home. I never shot a deer with a cast bullet from a 300 win mag, but I'll bet it doesn't work as good as a 45-70 with a cast bullet. To each his own I guess.
What alloy are you using for your cast lead bullets in your 45-70?
As a 45-70 fanatic everything you said is true. But there is just something cool about a lever gun shooting .45 caliber bullets that can weigh from 300 to 540 gr. I think of it as like the 45 ACP of the rifle world. I think it shines the best as a close range rifle. Yes I do agree it is overrated. People constantly treat 45-70 as like death ray.
well, first off with practice you can drastically improve the speed at which you work a bolt action to the point where its almost as fast a a double rifle in 2 shots.
second, garret isnt taking new customers atm so for the majority your point is moot but even if he was, i would take a 250 grain .338 partition at 1100 ft/lb more muzzle energy over anything garret makes for the situation you propose. and id rather have a .35 whelen than either.
@@hotramen5952lever guns are better balanced and usually with a shorter barrel and more natural point of aim. Also pointed bullets no matter the cartridge have a higher chance of deflected off thick brush. Not everyone has the time or the money to become as proficient with pointing shooting and reloading their bolt gun as they are their lever gun.
A large dose of common sense. Thank you, Desert Dog. Still, I like 45-70.
In an episode of "Alaska State Troopers", they went out to a trailer park for a domestic violence call. The lady who called said, "He's in there with his 45 70. Its a gun that will BLOW A BEAR'S FACE CLEAN OFF." Lol.
That's funny!
I understand that the aficionado crowd of any cult cartridge needs a reality check now and again but I do disagree with DDO on a couple points. First, I think it is a waste to shoot light bullets from a .45-70. The very poor velocity retention of these light bullets, even over the short ranges they are intended for, make other cartridges a better choice. I feel the .45-70 is at it's best when fired from a modern firearm that is intended for SAAMI pressure levels. Cast or jacketed bullets should not be lighter than 400 grains, and be aware that most jacketed bullets are not intended for full power loads (I find Hawk bullets to be the best, and 450's will function in most modern repeaters). Otherwise I would generally agree with DDO. Here in the northeast of the lower 48 shots over 150 yards are uncommon and the big bullet and light rifle combination is appealing for bears and moose.
Believe what you want but I’ve heard many tales of the 45/70 stopping panzer and tiger tanks at over 800 yards in ww2.
Has a trajectory like a rainbow but it’s still my favorite gun. My 1895 is my go to in bear country…which is where I live. Also, its fun to drop elk with. Yeah there are better options but isn’t there always?
I am a .45-70 fan.
I agree with your listed limitations, and I hunt within those limitations.
Thank you for mentioning the nostalgia and connection to history - this is one of my primary reasons for using this caliber.
Another reason, as you mentioned, is the handiness of the Marlin 1895 platform.
I think your review was fair, and I like that you also smile when shooting this cartridge :)
I have both a .30-06 and a 1895 .45-70. If I am out hiking and camping in bear country I will probably be packing the .45-70 with Buffalo Bore heavy loads, but if I am going hunting I will take my .30-06 every time.
The 45-70 is not over rated, it is just well liked within it's limitations....
Exactly. This is why people like to bowhunt, muzzle load and fly fish....limited applications, but very fun.
I don't care if it's over or under rated cartridge. I reload and cast bullets for it and I love my 1895 45-70. Very versatile round and it will do anything I want it to do, Besides I love its rich history. It is a survivor.
Have to disagree! Loaded with 400 gr+ hard cast bullets 45-70 becomes an effective moose and bear cartridges.
no better than most 30cal cartridges.
Now how fast can you shoot 2-3 shots of 300 WM in your bolt hunting rifle at a bear charging compared to a lever rifle 45-70?
Not saying it’s a world of difference but the gun world is synonymous with saying “seconds count”
@@JAC8504 you can get lever guns in hard hitting .30 cal cartridges. My Dad's Remington pump action in .30-06 is fast as hell especially if you are used to running a pump shotgun. Straight pull bolt actions are popular for fast shooting on running boar in Europe. Some provincial wildlife offices in Canada have selected the AR-10 in .308 for bear defense purposes. I'd rather any of them over a .45-70 levergun for moose and charging bear. My opinion only, it"s worth what you paid for it.😜
👍 In my memory .45-70 seems to have about a 30 year cycle in popularity. 1980 - 1985 were peak years in my youth. Mike
A modern 45-70 lever gun with a 400 grain bullet loaded to 1,900+ fps has about the same trajectory as a 30-30 carbine loaded with 170 grain bullets, so the rainbow trajectory mantra is bogus. When the 45-70 is loaded with smokeless powder to the same pressure level as the 30-30, it becomes a completely different cartridge. The 30-30 owes its popularity entirely due to its relatively flat trajectory (enabled by smokeless powder) compared to black powder cartridges of the era, one of which was the 45-70. If a 30-30 is adequate for close range (
I am going to have to rethink my entire gun collection now....
I am no "one cartridge is best" type but 45-70 is one hell of a round. It's about the most popular caliber in Alaska, mainly due to almost every bush pilot having one in their planes. I have/had .458 Lott, .416 Mag, 30-06, etc, etc but always took my Wild West Guns Marlin Guide Gun 18.5" 45-70 loaded w/BB 430gr HC loaded to 1925fps when I took my family camping in the Alaska woods. The gun is quick to reload, the round crushes through bone/gristle, and the recoil is far less than a .458 Lott or .416 RM. It's about the right cartridge for the job and there are some jobs the 45-70 is perfect for IMHO.
Another myth is that's its "the most popular cartridge in Alaska". I spend a great deal of time in Alaska every year and have family in the guide business there. Very few people carry a 45-70 these days.
I plan to go elk hunting next fall in Idaho with some friends. If I have a tag in my pocket I’ll have my 30-06 but for the pack out or if I’m only there to be a pack mule I’ll be toting the 45-70. DD can say what he likes, but if a bear is trying to put its tonsils on me I’d rather have ~400 gr at 1800 over 200 gr at 2700. I have zero doubt that 45-70 is up to task and it’s a nice handy rifle at that.
Also I believe you about pilots opting for 45-70’s. I have a 416 Rem and I love it and it’s more powerful but it’s a big ol honkin gun. I’d much rather get in and out of a bush plane with a nice trim lever gun
45-70 is great for a black powder target cartridge. 500gr bullet going about 1200 fps out of a reproduction sharps, Ballard, high wall or rolling block rifle. A lot of guys shoot said rifles at crazy ranges with the 45-70. I agree it's more of a fun cartridge. It's good at the role of a hunting cartridge in states where you can't use bottle neck cartridge. In the 1870's at the hight of Buffalo hunting hunters actually preferred cartridges like 50-90, 45-100 and 45-110. The reason why 45-70 lingered on was because it was a military cartridge, 45-70 was also relatively popular during the Alaskan gold rush. Also folks like myself who shoot reproduction single shot black powder rifles for competition kept the cartridge alive. As a BP shooter I recognize it's limitations. It's not the best thing to hunt with, especially large game. For hunting purposes 45-70 is best served as a quick handling close range compact utility rifle. Going back to black powder cartridge shooting, the reason why 45-70 is popular is because it's easy to load for, it's very accurate and has lower recoil. The true Buffalo cartridges like 45-110 or 50-90, tend to be more difficult to load for, recoil a lot more are not as accurate and can be very finicky. True Buffalo rifles made in the 1870's weighed a little over 20lbs. Had bull barrels. That's a little anecdote for y'all. 45-70 has it's place in competition but in the hunting world it's mediocre. I'll admit I'm a fan boy and I have a soft spot for 45-70 as far as historical and recreational purposes. On hunts my 1874 Shilho Sharps 45-70 stays in the safe. On the range I shoot the bejesus out of her.
The .45-70 remained relevant in large part because of repeating rifles and a smooth transition to smokeless powder. Until powders like 5744 came along it was dicey reloading the older black powder rounds with smokeless. I have been tempted to try the single shot BP route but have not bothered because the best years of my hunting adventures are behind me now.
Yeah it's a bit dated and there are better options but I think 45 70 for the most part is a nostalgia trip or cool factor, its why I reload and have my Henry. Is my Henry gonna be used for deer, not really that's why I have my 6.5 creedmoor. Is it gonna be used for home defense, no I have my ar for that. Am I ever gonna be put in a position where I'd need a quick rifle in bear country, nope. It's pushing a massive chunk of lead and hearing it smack the shit out of steel makes me feel warm. Everything said was valid though.
I like the fact that the 45-70 wont travel as far if your shot is deflected while hunting weather you hit a limb or a rock etc. A 7mm or 308 or 30-06 can go a long way before they stop. I am not hunting anything bigger than deer in southern Tennessee. Most of my shot are 80 yrds. I hunt with a 45-70 ,30-30, and 50 caliber flintlock. Nothing against anything you said at all and I do agree that 45-70 isn't the finger of God but I love mine for what I do with it. I have never thought of it as a steel ringer but more like a tool to provide food for my family. I actually want a 30-06 and have 6.5 creedmore and .243 also. All have served me well.
I can safely load 405 hard cast bullets up to around 2000 fps in my marlin 1895. Generating over 3500+ foot pounds of energy.
So 300wm power at the muzzle (which fades fast), but with a crappy trajectory. That was the theme of the video.
I can safely load a Speer, 120 grain, cast, 458" round ball w/ 3.0 grains of Red Dot. Runs about 700 fps out of my Marlin.
Same round ball w/ 10.0 grains of Unique powder is a little overkill for grouse. Head / neck shots only ...
I was loading near max with 350 grain flat nose and it was only 1900 fps in marlin guide gun.
I would suggest a big, heavy, flatness bullet does not need high velocity to do it's job on prey. Yes I know we live in the age hyper-velocity hunting cartridges also have to meet a cape buffalo or rhino here in the USA, LOL.
Thank you for a great explanation about this. I have listened to these fantasy stories since I was a kid, but the numbers never added up. I’ll stick with my 30-06 for most of my hunting.
overrated ? I do not agree.
I have to disagree with your opinion on single shot hunting rifles. My first deer rifle was a NEF superlight in 243 which I purposely got because it was pretty much perfect (or so I thought) for stalking whitetails in the northeast woods and taking shots well inside of 100 yards.
More recently, I've killed 5 pronghorns over the past 12 years, all with 1 shot at ranges from 240-400 years. Sure I was using a different rifle, but in all cases 1 shot was sufficient.
I feel that using a single shot rifle taught me to first be proficient with my rifle, and also made me a better hunter by getting or waiting for a good, clean, ethical shot since that first one better be a good one.
But you can be proficient with a bolt-action rifle as well and have the ability for a follow up shot when everything doesn't workout perfectly. A lot of variables involved with hunting as I'm sure you know.
"One shot one kill" sounds cool in theory and it works out that way more times than not but I'd rather have the ability for a follow up than not.
Many Muzzleloader HUNTERS will agree if you're any kind of shooter you only need one shot to put down a deer. Out to 200 yds.if its brown its down 😁
growing up with an open sighted 22 single shot rifle, which as I write these words is standing by the front door, I learned to take very careful shots. definitely made me a better hunter
45-70 is a novelty. If you are daydreaming about North America big game hunting with a 45-70, switch over to the 35 Whelan or 338 Win mag. I have loaded 45-70 ammo and shot a few lever and single shot rifles in 45-70. Recoil was too much . I know the Hornady 350 gr. Soft point flat nose loaded a top of a max charge of IMR 3031 in lever action Marlin was good killer of hogs.
Nice video. Even so, I love using .45-70 for hog hunting.
G'day from Australia.
my mate's 45/70 has been dubbed " The artillery " because he tends to lob those big old rounds in close to fleeing ferals at distance but rarely connects. The impact on the ground near them is impressive though.
I don't have a dog in this fight, but I definitely enjoyed your take and presentation. Thanks.
I'm a big fan of .308 and 30-06, but I still want a Marlin Trapper in 45/70. There is just something about a short handy thumper to carry as a Grizzly attack communication device.
I'm a bow hunter at heart and have been for 50 years now. I hunt with a rifle or muzzle loader the same way I bow hunt, 30-yard shot spots, and hunting in the dang thick stuff. The 45/70 at 40 yards or less will do the job intended.
Completely agree. And I love shooting the 45/70. What are your thoughts on the 375 ruger??
Agree with every point made here. With that being said I just bought my first 45-70 Henry all-weather. For me it’s the perfect solution to some problems I ran into where I hunt. I needed a short, compact rifle to hunt super thick brush with enough power and fast reloads to stop a bear.
Also lever actions are plain awesome and I like to buy made in USA whenever I can 😎
Thanks for the video!
Been thinking about a lever gun in 45-70
I’m in a straight wall state ( lucky me) and it seems like a solid round for the distances we would be hunting at.
My oldest son( 14 ) also wants one when he turns 18 and starts to go on fishing trips in some of the northern and western states for bear and pissed off moose defense.
Still trying to learn as much as possible about the cartridge.
As a straight wall stater, just go get one.
I just bought the new Ruger made Marlin SBL 45-70 and it has been a blast. Probably my favorite gun (and i have more than a few lol) pricey since they just came out a little over a year ago but has been well worth it. Ammo is very expensive though
(around $60-$90 per box of 20) anyway, id say go for it if you can whip up the cash
I have a Henry all weather 45-70 I absolutely love it. But it’s my whitetail and black bear rifle, it works very well for me I’ve never shot a deer that’s went more than 10-15 yards … I do hunt at archery ranges 50 yards would be my max distance I shoot…. If I was going out west or hunting a diffrent area I would change set ups but it works for me and I love shooting it 😊
I’m happy with my 45-70 , for my needs, it was never intended to shoot beyond 100 yards. I do feel very safe, carrying it around on my shoulder though. 👊
Camera angle makes it look like the Zebra mare in your painting is feeding from your powder funnel. Gotta ask, was that intentional? Good for a grin either way.
It was not intentional. I rewatched the video, and you are right!
Great video. What do you think about the marlin .450 or .444?
Why did you make this video? Your content is obvious, and should be well known, for moderately experienced and intelligent shooters and hunters, and we certainly do not select it for dangerous or big game hunting. But you make us all so sad, since we still love 45-70. Stop it!
This calibre has the ballistic coefficiency of a gumby van flying through the air.Its an antiquated round that has been surpassed by many other calibres. No thanks,i will stay with my 300PRC and 300WM.
I own a 45/70 Springfield 1873 because I wanted its history to hold on to for a while. I haven't shot my 7MM 08 in a few years now. My 45/70 is set up for a great 100-yard deer or black bear rifle. I shoot 45/70-500 black powder loads. I have 7 vintage original boxes full but cannot bring myself to shoot the Oldtimers. Reloading ammo with an old Lee Loader works fine.
I like my 1895 Marlin 45-70 with light black powder equivalent smokeless loads. It’s a great range toy. My hunting rifles are 30-06, 308 and 270. I also have a 358 Win that satisfies my desire for a big bore bolt gun. Good video!!!
For a saddle rifle or short range, quick response, from Grizzly, it is a +, I think they should remake a heavier lever gun to handle a more modern load. I had one save our lives, Grizzly came up behind and to the side, we never heard him, much less saw him, by luck the P.H. looked behind us, turned and dropped to a knee, shot it in the head and broke its neck, or it would have been bloody. Great Show. If you looking for content, go threw the family of cartridges, you have a good start on the "06" family. and the "308" family, Mauser family perhaps. You would be surprised. There are people out there who were never raised around fire arms. So whatever is on youtube is their only teacher. And now they own a gun. Great Show.
In Clyde Williamson’s Book , he showed loads for the 33 Winchester 1886 lever gun , at 2400 fps using a .338 cal, bullet I think it was a 180 gr, that would be a stout round for someone looking for a good lever gun in bear 🐻 county.
45-70 still has its place. I agree on most of it. But it has a really cool history. It can be a great round out of a modern single shot for the Midwest white tail guys. It can be loaded up or loaded to trap door specs. It’s versatile and will probably be around for awhile yet.
I feel like you threw a little more dirt on this cartridges grave. It’s Truly a sad day.
When hunting in a state to where you can only shoot a straight wall cartridge, I like it better than a shotgun slug.
Great video DD. I had always believed the myths you discussed today. Probably because I've read so many comments by people using the 45-70 in Guide Guns for bear protection.
For close up 12 gauge with slugs. 338 wm or 375 h&h for over all hunting is better choice. I had a 45-70 make a good black bear brush gun. I would opt for grizzly in camp close 12 gauge with slugs further than in camp 338 wm or 375 h&h better options than 45-70
Leaving out the 30-30, what would be your top pick cartridge in lever gun for hunting whitetails in thick woods where shots will be under 100yds?
Look at 44 mag. I use one in Pennsylvania. Steep rocky thick hardwood forest,with mix of spruce hemlock pine. And so far the 44 has either put the deer down or very short blood trail. And complete pass throughs. Mine is brass Henry big boy. I'm using 240 grn hard cast .430 gas checked. From Montana bullet works. Also very accurate.
Interesting discussion. I noted your reference to “a hunting cartridge”. That’s an interesting point. When I’m up in the Yukon, I pack an 1895 SBL with stiff 460 hard cast flat point bullets and thought I had the best / handiest set up. I still think that but as you stated I’m not hunting and when I am I pack a 300, 338 or 375. I’ll have to ponder your point further.
The SBL is also one of the coolest looking hunting rifles you could have so that’s also worth something.
Hey Dog.. Great vid as the usual and when will my 35 Whelen be ready for delivery.?👍👍
What's your opinion on the 348 Winchester?
My pet peeve are the folks that puff up their chests and rave about the fierce recoil from the standard 45-70 commercial loads. Oh man are those guys tough! In their minds anyway. It's equal to 70 grains of black powder. A LIGHT muzzleloading hunting load. Adequate but nothing special. It was designed for people sized targets, not buffalo.
As an eastern woods cartridge it's been great for me. Where most shots are measured in feet and not yards it's really been my darling.
I do not handload for this cartridge, it's my only rifle I do not own dies for. Anyways.
If Im hunting in thicker woods (85%+ of the hunting here in VT) my JM stamped Marlin 1895G running buffalo bore 300gr JHP's is my go too...
I don't hunt with the 45-70 because I think it has dangerous game stopping power, I use it because it's super effective on Whitetail and black bear within its range limitations.
It's a short, fast handling and fairly light package that offers me reasonable velocity, (~2200fps) with maximum frontal diameter for a lever gun. A 300gr JHP will expand quickly and dump nearly all of its energy within a deer. The 300gr JHP from Buffalo Bore expands to about 1" and will penetrate deer and black bear adequately from broadside to quartering to full on frontal shots.
I wouldn't want to shoot it much past 100-125 yards.
I'm curious how the 350gr & 405gr JFN's perform, but the 300gr'ers have worked and I'm not trying to fix what's not broken.
My Marlin 1895G shoots a 3 shot group @ 100yd between 1.5"-1.75" if I do my part. About 2 moa is completely acceptable (to me) as long as you don't try to stretch it's limits.
In the woods, where shots rarely come much past 100yds, the 45-70 is awesome imo.
* I lose about 140 fps due to the short barrel of the 1895 guide gun. However Ive never had a bear or deer notice.
For most other hunting, I'm taking a bolt gun. The last couple years I've favored the model 70 Featherweight in 30-06.
I love the 45-70. It is dang fun. Fun is fun ,and science is science. And thats that.
Great video as usual the 45-70 is great for what it was designed for and even better with the new bullets
Every tool has its uses. The 45-70 is a good nostalgic round. Hell, the made the 450 Bushmaster which is basically the same only being able to shoot out of an AR platform. If you expect an elephant to fly you are going to be sadly dissapointed.
I think you made great points. I was researching as you were talking and you were spot on.
My gripe is that it’s mostly from a hunting perspective. Although , I do think this point is minimized as both have been proven as African “big-five” capable cartridges.
As a guide gun, I would much rather have a shorter lever 45-70 than a .30-06. One thing you forgot to mention too, which is relevant with the new(er) ruger/marlin 1895, is suppressability.
For an overall self defense weapon, inside 100yds, I think the 45-70 is a much better choice. I believe the 45-70 performance was targeted with the .458 socom and .50 Beowulf cartridges for the AR platform, which to me strengthens the self defense argument.
Have multiple 30-06 and 45-70s. The 30-06 is more practical, the 45-70 is just fun. Since I’m not a subsistence hunter I have no problem limiting shot opportunities because it’s fun sometimes. I have a couple single shots in 45-70, no thanks on the hotter than marlin loads. 400ish grains at 1300 fps is what I mostly shoot (although not what I’d hunt with of course here in CA). I also prefer loading straight wall cartridges, not that I can’t load bottlenecks.
Hahaha
Ya know he aint wrong.
But I still
Love it!! 🤘🏼💪🏼🤟🏽👍🏼😜
The 45-70 is one of my favorites, but not for hunting. Ringing steel with light, cast bullets, along with the .22 and .357, are my guests favorites.
I agree with what your saying. The one caveat I would add though, is that a large bullet transfers energy faster. Obviously depending on bullet construction but if the round doesn’t pass through the animal that can be ok. But your right on for large game animals I really wouldn’t choose a 45-70.
"Never hunt with a cartridge younger than yourself". 🤣
Agree. The 45-70 is no heavy hide dangerous game cartridge for Africa. It is however excellent at everything else at close ranges. Modern bullet offerings in 458 are awesome. Lots of myths about its power that should be called out but it is darn effective at killing big game and leaving blood trails. I think that like 8mm 9mm and 38 special, there should be different factory pressure specs made and stamped on the barrel, head, and box. +P or +P+. Too much unsafe confusion around max chamber pressure and what rifles can take the pressure and thrust.
I dont prescribe any mythic powers to it, I just love shooting it.
-well - that says it all - but 4570 is still a fun round to shoot so long as you dont ask it to do something it was never designed for
Where 45-70 is really fun is out of a long barrel Sharp or rolling block with black powder and a 500gr or heavier bullet. Is the 45-70 magic? No, even in it's black powder hey day there were a ton of cartridges that out performed it like the 45-90, 45-100, 44-77 etc. etc. but it was decent and military acceptance then like now can really make a cartridge when it comes to commercial sales. She is an old gal with a rainbow trajectory and a time of flight at longer ranges that almost gives you time to sip your sweet tea before it get's to the target, but when those slow fat bullets hit steel at 500+ yards it sure puts a smile on your face. Think I will take my rolling block to the range this weekend and let the old girl make some noise 😊
Lucky you. I agree. I have an original sharps 1873. Love her to death. They sure made things with pride back then.
Good comments. Thank you.
I'm sticking to my 30-30 Win. rounds for 'do all' deer hunting & home guard.
Is it true that the 45-70 is equivalent to a muzzleloader loaded with 80gr powder with the same bullet?
This whole discussion proves one major statement that's been around longer than the 45/70. That's why people bet on horse races. One a newer reference it's why we have chocolate & vanilla. It's called opinion! If you have that caliber, of which I have two, or if you want one, then get it. They are fun to shoot & even hunt with but as with drinking, be responsible. Know your ability & shooting skills, the firearm's limits & don't take long unethical shots you wouldn't normally take for your equipment. A lot of game has hit the ground in it's career. I feel certain of that. I wouldn't call a 600 yard shot with a 30-30 ethical either even though some may have done this. Shoot what you want & stay within you & your equipment's capabilities. Don't take a knife to a gunfight. Good video though.
45-70 is under gunned in it range. Hits hard and slow.
I enjoyed your video personally I see the 45-70 like a multi tool it's a good gun to fill multiple roles but not particularly good any one job. There only two things in your video that had me rise an eyebrow at that's your brush shooting comment I haven't really seen enough evidence to through my vote one way or the other. Then the next about the date of the cartridge but I could be mis remembering that be fun to dive back into that study. Thanks for the video and stay safe till next time.
Iraqveteran8888 has a good video, what is a brush gun where he shows the effects of different calibers through the brush into a steel target.
@@Peter-od7op I recall a magazine article on the topic decades ago that used the same method, dowel rods driven through a backer board and used as "brush". As I recall the bullets that did best were both large in bore/weight and driven very fast.
The number 1 thing I agree whith more than anything is never trust Gov or give Gov more power lol
Great video DD. But I still love my 45-70 yeah it's not the best at range and drops off fast but the history keeps me coming back with the right ammo it does a good job for dropping deer and black bear. But if someone wants go for big game with a lever gun go with a 45-90 or a .405 win. Yeah I don't reach for my 45-70 when rifle opens I normal reach for my .338 RCM.. Keep it up bud even if people "don't" like it.
And the film Wind River contributes to make this roud to look like a cannon ball
Personally, the 45-70 really shines when shooting subsonic and suppressed. 😊
I use a T/C Contender Super 16, it is not as powerful as my 460 Smiths, but it is handier. It is a great handgun round.
I do like the 45-70 and respect it for what it’s accomplished. It drives me crazy though when people say it’s a great dangerous game cartridge. It’s nowhere near as impressive on dangerous game. I’ve watched several deer killed with 45/70 and helped skin many of them, and their is no comparison between it and my 416 rem and 416 Taylor improved effect on deer. I can only imagine how much more the 416’s outclass it against a Cape buffalo. Much less how it fairs against the true big bore dangerous game cartridges. I’m not hating on the cartridge at all, I just get tired of hearing the internet myth around this cartridge and it’s insane ability to power slam the biggest game on earth 🤣
Have a 270 win a 1911 45 and a 45/70. I'm good.
The 45-70 is nostalgic, but if one wants a "power house" in a large bore, one must step up to at least a .458 Win Mag.
I have a reproduction Sharps that I bought about 30 years ago, it has a 30-inch barrel and I have ran 405 grain bullets backed with 70 grains of FFG black powder and it's fun to shoot, I also have rounds that I have loaded up with 515 grain lead cast bullets from wheel weights, but all in all, I can use it for primitive firearm hunts as well as just to go out and shoot it.
It's kinda like a Harley Davidson. It's not the best handling, fastest or reliable bike but it's damn cool and I wouldn't give up my "govt." For anything and it's killed it's share of animals.
Great analogy
Uh oh, I feel the force in the air. I think .35 Whelen is far superior anyway. I'm not in a straight wall State, so that doesn't factor in to my decisions. Even then, I would probably go with a .350 Legend or .450 Bushmaster.
All of your points are solid. I love casting, reloading 45-70. I guess the mystic grabs me more than data. But I'm not a hunter so I don't need the capabilities my hunting brothers need. I just love it for what it is.
Everything you said is bang on. If you're concerned about shortages, not sure there's a better option overall for casters. Also, the modern 45-70 rifles are just undeniably cool! Finally, overrated doesn't mean "bad.". There were a few years there when the hype was just over the top. My fav. rifle by far is my 1895 with a few RPP upgrades. Great video, thanks!
My friend convinced me a while back to try 500auto Max because I was often killing 400-500lb wild hogs from 10ft or less. I bought one, great fun,works, but I don't use it anymore because slugs at that distance work fine and are 50cents each. Makes no sense to spend more to use a cool gun, my SX3 slugger works fine.
It may not meet the same criteria as far as energy and foot pounds in feet per second but with large heavy bullets loaded to the Max 4 deep penetration would be my choice for Bear protection for close range
This is all true. People do have a false impression of the 45-70. I like 45-70 because of the fact that it DOES move slow. I don’t like to hunt over 150 yards, so I don’t need the power to get way on out there. A really heavy bullet moving slower hits different than a smaller fast moving bullet. You can’t doubt the devastation done to the animal when you shoot one with a 45-70. Yes there are definitely better rounds to use for hunting different regions. But for those who like it for what it is that’s okay. I love it, it’s my favorite round. But I don’t go around saying it’s the best. I like it for the fun, for the historical aspect of it speaking how it’s one of the oldest rounds out there, and I like it because I love Henry lever guns. Great video sir it needed to be said lol
I love a 45-70. 405 grain cast lead bullets will drop in the same spot , and I know how to find that spot out to 200 yards. It is my favorite feral hog cartridge.
Quigley says you are Wrong. Sharps is the only Gun you need.
Actually, Quigley says YOU are wrong! He didn't shoot (or like) the 45-70. He shot the 45-120 long-range cartridge. But even then; a 300 Win has more energy at 200-yards than Quigley's loads had at the muzzle.
The 45-70 is a great round and historic. But, if I was headed into grizzly country, I would bring my 458 win mag and load up a couple boxes with 450 grain Barnes TSX bullets. But thats me. A bolt action can be worked as quickly as a lever action.
Good video. I guess there are some uses for 45-70 as mentioned but I would never pick it over the 30-06 for hunting big game. I’ve never had one but I’ve long thought it was overrated.
You should read elmer keiths books. He has real life experience with both the 30-06 and the 45-70. Keith dont share your opinion.
@@blueduck9409 I have real life experience with 30-06. So should his opinion override my experience?
@@blueduck9409 Elmer Keith was wrong about a lot of things, and lied about many others.
I love this guy because he says it like it is
Thanks , DD I Have to live with both 45/70 , 270 WIN and even a couple of 6.5 nuts. Now I just refer to you. God Bless