Camira Vs Sigma
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 25 ก.ย. 2015
- The program was filmed as a 'pilot' - I shot this way back in 1982 :) A combined effort of the then Wheels Magazine writers and Seven's Evan Green and Artransa.
Originaly shot on Super 8 and 16mm (opening and closing segments).
It was certainly an example of Evan Green's versatility as a motoring writer and historian - he later went on to write mystery novels, one based on the Birdsville Track. During the trip he used to recall stories of 'Gelignite Jack' and the Redex trials. Amazingly, this was shot over seven days! I had the luxury of traveling with the mechanic in a Mercedes wagon - it came off much the worse for wear than both the Sigma and Camira!
NOTE: The original 4:3 ratio version can be viewed here • Sigma Vs Camira Origin... - บันเทิง
My first car was a 1982 JB Camira SLE. Certainly learnt a lot about cars (and how to apply fish oil).
Rebuilt the engine on the road outside my parents house. Left the block in the car, whilst pulling the pistons and rods through the bottom of block. One year I got 11 tows home. What a classic. So many bad memories.
That sums up my experience too. I should have bought a Commodore of that era. Rebuilt the engine and repaired so much rust, and got sick of fixing the damn crap bucket.
Even the seat was misaligned to the steering wheel by design.
I had the JD Camira as a first car..... It was a 12 yo hand me down from my mums bf who bought it new and drove it like a granny lol. After a year with me the CV joints went clicky and i had to replace the fuel injector computer 3 times. But, hey, great memories in that piece of crap lol
Mine too, except SLX, it felt like I replaced the fuel pump every second week.
In 29 years of driving my Mitsubishi GB Galant (1973), it never got towed home. It always got me to where I was going.
Fixing both of these rot-boxes is what built my first house.
After all these years nobody remembers Camira's...
Sigma's are Retros these days
Allahu akbar.
What a find this program is! Wonderful upload! As hard to believe as it is, I still have my 79 GE Sigma SE. Tremendous car and still a joy to drive - not as a daily any more of course. Rare as hens teeth these days, considering they formed 30% of all cars purchased in the late 70s/early 80s.
My mates had them and we'd rally drive them and fang them around everywhere in the late 90's. There were plenty around for spare parts then but rust claimed them all eventually.
Sigma's were fkn everywhere... if you knew the blokes who made em at Tonsley it's a miracle they even ran!
Rare for a reason - but you're now 'custodian', to keep her alive & fit for the road lol.
I'm custodian of a bloody FnF Daihatsu Copen I can't bring myself to pass on.
I took my 3 month old 1982 GJ Sigma from Adelaide threw Sydney, Brisbane to Mt Isa onto Darwin. It never missed a beat. The drive back to Adelaide was an entirely different trip as the roads most of the way were flooded. With nothing more than a blanket over the bonnet that sigma took to the water like a boat. Two days of flooded roads finally got us to Alice Springs. The Todd in flood and no way out but the Ghan. That's was one hell of a car. I still drive Mitsubishi cars today. As John Laws use to say on his TV advertising back then, "when your on a good thing, stick to it" and I have. Some of my Mitsi's travelled over 400,000ks including a Sigma, Starwagon, Lancer and a Colt. They are just dam good cars.
I'd take the sigma anyday over the camira. I remember when th camira was launched in august 82 and before the end of that year just about every second one was broken down on the side of the road,they were plagued with problems and trouble, theu were a lemon for that matter.
My Camira actually broke down on the way home from picking it up at the dealer.
I have driven both wagon versions a 1984 GK Sigma that belonged to my Granddad and a 1985 JD Camira I bought second hand. Both were comfortable and reliable cars. Camira had huge cargo capacity due to the low boot floor enabled by no rear diff which the Sigma had to accommodate. Holden had fixed the reliability by 1985 and I took the Camira up to 314,000km before retiring it due to rust.
Our family grew up with Holdens and I owned a number of them in my 20s. 3 years of repping in a dog of a VN Commodore led me to try the Magna in the early 90s, and there was no going back. Mitsubishis served me well for many years after that and apart from fuel average consumption they were just great, dependable, well built vehicles. Far from fashionable but refined and reliable, it’s a shame they didn’t enjoy more success.
My 380 has been faultless, best car to ever close s factory.
Should have stayed with holden
I bet you were glad you didn't own that VN - if I had paid $20,000 in 1988 for one of those things I would have been livid! (A decent used car could be had for $1000...I know what I would prefer.)
@@saxongreen78 It cured me (and our company) of owning Holdens from then on! I also inherited a VSII Calais in a subsequent job and it was also an extremely average car, despite the luxury appointments- just so poorly put together. It was duly replaced by another Mitsubishi (and a few more after that!)
Unfortunately you missed the VS commodore,and had you been fortunate to buy one new 27 years ago itd still be a daily driver today in 2023.
I personally would pick a Sigma over a Camira any day, only issue with the Sigma is the fuel consumption, otherwise they were a strong little car, especially the 2.6ltr turbo version, I worked for Mitsubishi in the Service Department and also Sales, in the mid to late 80's, it was a great company to be a part of, my personal favourites were the Mitsubishi Scorpion and the Mitsubishi Starion.
As a kid, I wanted a Mitsubishi Scorpion so bad. I nearly convinced my mum to get one, but a shady car-dealer spooked her off.
Legend has it that Camera is Aboriginal for Lemon.
What a great piece of aussie motoring nostalgia. I bought every Wheels, Motor, and Car Australia mag from about '85 onwards. Here we have Robinson, Scott, Green, and even a Tuckey!! Legends. (Robinson always reminded me of the dad off Family ties, Michael Gross). Thanks to you, Mal Hamilton. Nice one. Mum had a 2.0 JE SLE Camira wagon for a few years. It had a few things go wrong but I loved driving that car, and I was driving an Alfa 33 Monte Carlo myself. Cost a bomb to service but never let me down - ever. Unbelievable.
I remember Jack Absolom doing a trek coast to coast in a GJ Auto Wagon. Even Jack was surprised he got through!
This was brilliant. Great to see Evan and Robbo. There was much hype around the Camira when released and won 1982 Car of the year. We had a Sigma 2.6L manual wagon. Good power, lovely gear change and plush seating. Pretty faultless actually.
No surprise it won Wheels car of the year...it was fairly much OWNED by Ford and Holden...wich ever spent the most advertising money with them could just about NAME wich Car in their model line up would get "Car Of The Year"...Those Camira's were an absolute unreliable Dog that fell apart and the proof is in that you didn't even see a Camira on the road any older than 10yo...if you were lucky...I saw a Sigma still on the road about 2 weeks ago at my local shopping centre... but haven't seen a Camira for near 25+ years
@@23yearsand76 Wheels and their cars of the year have absolutely no credibility most of them ended up being unreliable pieces of junk and soon were gone from our roads while others wheels bagged ended up being far better cars.
This was way before its time. Absolutely magnificent on every level from production to presentation. Well done.
Absolutely loved this.
They dont test'em like this anymore...
what do you mean. car reviewers spend minutes - if not 2 hours, driving a fully paid for vehicle, direct from the manufactuer - the same manufacturer that effectively pays their wages, to say completely unbiased and unfiltered opinions on how the cars spec sheet can be read to the public! ;)
I collected Wheels (and Modern Motor) Magazines for many years from the 80's. I really enjoyed the story about these 2 cars. Watching the video and all the work that goes on behind the scenes is truly amazing. Thank you.
I had a GJ GSR I loved that car and flogged it mercilessly it was light blue with dark blue pinstripes and matching blue interior.
My favourite memory of Evan Green's automotive journalism was his comments on a US motoring magazine's (which one I can't recall) comparison of a Mach III Mustang and an E-type Jaguar, in which the yank declared the Mustang to handle as well as the Jag.
Green's comment was that the average American motorist wouldn't know handling if he found it in bed with him. Too true, given the total lack of handling of US cars of the time.
Vividly remember our old Camira groaning up the Pentlands with the ridiculously heavy pop top caravan on the back..at about 40 kph. On one of it's last trips from country Vic to Anglesea the cam sheared in two coming down Sturt St Ballarat and that is where we changed it over with 2 dollar shop tools, having just enough in the bank to get a cam from a local wrecker. Got it all back together and it continued running for another few years before we traded it to a distraught car salesman.
Memories from back in the day when wheels was a true motoring magazine and not just a mouthpiece for advertises. They would never, ever do a comparison like this in 2022, as the outcome would undoubtedly offend one of its advertisers.
i'm not sure about that. i suspect there has always been pressure from car brands to say nice things if you want their advertising dollars. even the camira here seemed favoured from the get go. perhaps it was self-inflicted bias (the new car and tech always seems fancy "grass is greener" syndrome), or perhaps holden asked for them to be polite...
@@simonr23 The difference is that first Wheels - May 1953, was an immediate success with 30,000 copies printed sold out in a couple of days. A few months later Wheels was selling 60,000 copies a month. They continued to grow and grow and their primary money came from sales, not advertisers. Over the years though sales of physical copies (not only this magazine , but all magazines) dwindled as more and more people view them online, and the inky way to make money now is through advertising. They could say what they wanted, what they truly believed, and the dollars would roll in through sales. They didn’t care what the manufacturers thought. In fact, they needed to tell the truth because if they were not honest the readers would know, and thru round stop buying the magazine. They could not afford to bite the hand that feeds them - the readers. Today’s market is different and they now cannot afford to bite the new hand that feeds them - the advertisers.
The Sigma was definitely the better car than the Camira.
I would take one of them to Birdsville today, but not a Camira.
The story reminded me of a family trip in 1979 from Adelaide to Bedouri and back via the birdsville track in our 1973 HQ wagon.
The Holden made it without any issues, but we did dent the fuel tank in so much that it never held more than about 3/4 after that.
We had it so loaded up with gear that the back end was running very low.
In hindsight some suspension work might have been in order.
When we got to the cattle station we were staying at outside Bedouri (Kamaran downs) my dad and I were checking the damage to the hq, and realized there were no u bolts left on the exhaust.
It was just hanging there.
A pretty good result in the end as we had passed another HQ on the way there which had no exhaust past the gearbox.
Fun times.
I was looking for a good cheap car in the late 90's. A mechanic mate of mine recommended the JE Camira. The earlier models were plagued with problems which were fixed in later models however their resale value was terrible. I paid $3000 for a 1998 wagon, 5 speed, fuel injected, wind up windows (remember them?) and an air conditioner that blew air straight from Antarctica
It drove well, had plenty of power yet when driven gently would only sip fuel. 40mpg on the highway was easily achievable.
It was like the Tardis inside. It easily hauled the family, all the band gear and I could sleep in the back, albeit diagonally.
I did huge miles in that car. I only ever did basic servicing to the vehicle. It never broke down. When I say "never broke down", the odometer did actually fail at 300,000 Kms. I'm guessing that it had over 400,000 Kms. on it when we finally retired it.
We've owned nicer cars but never one that was as cost effective to own and operate as that one. We remember it fondly.
Mate you owned the only good one. Awful in my experience. My bother and brother inlaw had them and they were terrible cars.
JE or JD Camiras? The first ones, the JD, were absolute dogs. My dad's mate had a brand new JD and it was plagued with problems. He ended up trading it for a 15 year old VW, it was that bad. The later ones were a different story, though. And because of the reputation of the JD, nobody wanted them. As a consequence, they were cheap as chips.
Mine was an absolute ripper.
@@davidbrayshaw3529 The JB released in 1982 was the first Camira, and the one reknowned for issues. The JD was from late 1984 and included the 1.8ltr EFI engine in all, except the base model which still ran the 1.6ltr carby engine from the JB until the JD was "upgraded" in 85/86 to unleaded (but had substantial drop in power). At this point, all JD's had the 1.8ltr.
Now you've jogged my memory. Ours was and '88 JE. It was a 2 litre. Plenty of power and an absolute sipper. It finally went to god with well over 300k on the clock, @@aus80srockradio94
The switch from 89-96 to cloned Camrys known as the Apollo and then from 97 onwards till 2006 the opel sourced vectra couldn’t come soon enough.a modern day Camira was either an epica or Malibu.
Within 12 months of the Camira being released it was regarded as such a dog that you could not give them away, whilst the Sigma's just kept on rolling .They kept Chrysler Australia alive for years and were simply re-badged when Lee Iaccoca sold Chrysler Australia to Mitsubishi.
Edit: You would take anything Evan Greene said with a grain of salt, he has the legacy of being remembered as the most despised motoring journalist in Australia.
Noel Tuckey, being a mechanic, had a better idea of which of these two cars would last the longest.
Not bloody his 😉
No relation to bill Tuckey?
@@BlairSauer Bill’s brother. Recall Noel wrote for Wheels both under his own name, and a pen name, George Ambrose.
@@joh2 Ah ok righto. Yeah that's interesting.
And now 38 years later, which is the winner? There's three Sigmas for sale on carsales and only 2 Camiras. The Sigmas all look roadworthy and totally drivable. The two Camiras look like they should be in the junk yard.
Superspeed what do you look like after 38 years ?
My first job was working as a detailer in 1981 at a Mitsubishi dealership, and I was struck by how comfortable and quiet the sigma (se) was; though it's cabin was small for a medium sized car. You're more likely to see this model sigma still on the roads than the Camira. I owned a new JB Camira SLR sedan for a couple of years, and it was good around town, but it was crap up hill and the factory SLR tyres became warped after 12 months - which would make the car/steering shake when driving over 80 kph. My parents owned a JD SLR model for a couple of years, which served them well, but apparantly it had issues after they sold it.
My brother-in-law blew up the 202 motor in his HQ panel van (on a trip north), got it towed to Taree Holden to try and get it repaired. They pronounced it buggered but gave him a really good trade in offer on a Camira. So he bought it. He had a few problems with it over the next couple of years, but nothing major. He wanted to get back into a panel van but Holden dealers did not want to take the Camira as a trade in. He had to sell it privately for a tiny fraction of the new price even though it had very low miles on the clock and full service history. He had to practically give it away. Camiras were the subject of a large number of jokes and were generally poorly regarded.
Great memories and thanks for uploading! Dad was a Holden mechanic and when I left home my first car was a Camira 1986, which performed flawlessly over 20,000 kms in 18 mths. I loved that car and even sold it for more than I bought it for! My next car was a Holden Astra before going European.
I owned a red Sigma like in this this video. I also drove the Camira when it first came out. The Camira had a 1.6 litre engine that needed to rev.
I don't know why youtube suggested this to me after 7 years but it was a good film. My first car was a Camira. It never gave me any trouble but it's reputation hurt me at trade in time.
Now the real winner. Every now and then you still see an old Sigma getting around but I haven't seen a Camira in at least twenty years. I wonder where they went?
Every one of them blew their head gasket or got rusted out I’d say.
They would have gradually moved westward and became paddock bashers. The rest of them that stayed near the coast would have turned into iron oxide
The steering wheel turns into a soft sponge after 10 years, that might help answer your question.
In real life the Sigma was much better car than the Camira .
The last model Camira ,the JE was a really good car.
The JB and JD were rubbish.
Find a Camira on the road today? They were a disposable car. Not even worth keeping as a "classic" Holden.
I can’t believe camira won Australian car of the year🤦🏻 edit; wheels magazine of the year
I had this exact 82 model Sigma but with the 2.6L engine even the same body colour for 24years. I bought it brand new and had over 400k on the clock when I finally sold it. Very reliable and great to drive. It carried our family everywhere and never once left me stranded. What more can you ask of any car.
@@jj-snax7808 .....and they replaced it with the wide body Fwd shitbox Magna
Thank you for the upload, we thoroughly enjoyed it. Good old fashioned adventures by real journos ... nothing like the paid shills we have today that think a car test is five laps around a shopping centre car park.
I think they call them "influencers" these days.
So true. It would be great if car tests were all like this.
If a journo called a Camira anything but a shit box.... he was a paid shill, even back in the day!
I had a camira, efi 2.0 5speed manual. It went bloody good! Even though the engine was buggered and fouled plugs regularly, it went well!
Had a JE Camira for 8 years... 2 Lt five speed fuel injected, serviced regularly, never missed a beat. Alot of my friends laughed at me, cold.air in take.mod, 15 inch wheels. Easy to work on and plenty of European upgrade bits. The first models sadly gave it a bad reputation. I was very happy with mine. Oh, friends didn't laugh after taking it for a drive ...
This is the top gear that should have been!
Thanks for sharing!!!
Thanks for uploading- very entertaining, some 35 years later!
Sigmas whilst not the most soundly made car, were certainly good fun. Good torque for a 4 cyl, decent looking and had some some solid variants like the GSR, Turbo or Peter Wherrett special. Camira's had nothing going for them and even worse reliability.
Bs they wher a epic car and very comfortable
@@jezzdogg6857 The Camira? They were a piece of shit.
Company I worked for back then bought a bunch of the Sigmas' for their area managers, they were terrible!
Motors were short lived, was cheap to buy a complete new motor and have it swapped.
Who would dare to take a front wheel drive sedan 7,500kms over roads like that today? Not me!! Amazing video. I grew up reading Peter Robinson's work. He was a massive influence in my life.
What an incredible time capsule!
What a fantastic record, not only of those cars in punishing conditions, but of Australia at that time. Roos and road trains and dust for days. Thank you for sharing this. It's also interesting to see in the comments how these vehicles fared in later years.
I took my GH 2.6 5 speed Sigma round Oz in 2008. Never went over 80kph. Great trip, no issues.
Took my 81 Sigma round Australia in 2008, she made it at 80kph. Its no race.
This doesn’t seem right, these days you could only do this in a $70,000 4x4 with $20,000 worth of ARB accessories 😅
Haha So true!
My impression was that the Camiras faded from the scene pretty quickly, whereas the Sigma lasted and morphed into the Magna, although I don&t know why really.
The Camira was based on a european car and like most euro cars was a major oil burner. One model had pistons like a compressor with no skirt to support them and the cyl heads had buckets that the valve springs sat in which filled up with oil and ended up being sucked down the valve guides and puffed out the exhaust in great clouds on takeoff or deceleration.
@grantreid8583 we used to call Camiras 'smokers' & joked the more smoke the more 'packs' per day. Don't forget the terrible build quality. My wife's brother bought a low km one in late 80s, -5k. It was old lady owned, immaculate nic, like new. Within 6 months of constant daily driving, things were falling apart inside, through rust began appearing, we lived beachside & it was constantly breaking down on him. I told him when he got it he should garage it & never drive it as it could be worth something one day. He was doubtful... looked like he was right lol
Actually purchased a camira wagon SLX in 1988 brand new for 13k
Apart from heater hoses and 4 batteries it clocked 450,000 Km and eventually retired in 2001 but still started with a shot head gasket and I piston gone
Still up till then aircon and steer worked perfect
An interesting perspective. My grandmother bought a JB SL/E Automatic. It was a great car, never gave any issues, and as a kid, I hammered it.
Omg the aircon was great in them. I had one was epic
One can’t help think what if we got the next J car from opel come 89 when it was time to move on ftpm the Camira at Holden instead of what was basically a 2 year old Camry clone.
WOW! This takes me back.
Had both years ago, bought a Datsun and never looked back.
4 years after this was filmed the we followed a similar route in a Morris Minor along with a few others from the Morris Minor Club of Vic. We completed the trip without any issues, not even a flat tyre.
The last of the Camiras the JE was a pretty good car. Very little going for it in the way of styling, but mine was very reliable. The 1.8 litre engine was a bit under-powered particularly the auto. The Sigma had better styling and the 2.6 litre variant was more drivable. Rear wheel drives were easier to work on if you like doing your own mechanicals.
Thanks from an icy June Canberra for posting this. =)
And real road testers. Not the fanboys of today. Warwick Kent was a brilliant photographer of cars.
I drove both but bought the Sigma... much better engine and vehicle overall as the Camiras suffered from issues with valve stem seal problems.
Hard to comprehend being asked "mate wana have a sit behind the wheel of my Camira" especially without the term shitbox being snuck in there somewhere
Owned both and worked on others regularly as a motor mechanic. Camira's were far more unreliable.
I disagree. The camira was a legend and ver comfortable
@@jezzdogg6857 Are you a qualified mechanic?
Quite frankly I’d be more interested in the Mercedes diesel powered station wagon
I drove a camira for 8 years. It had its challenges but also its charms.
I've been waiting too see this since 2023
Very cool. I took a JE Camira wagon lots of these types of places. Never let me down.
I did enjoy this film thanks for showing it. I remembered reading a book by Even Green called Journeys with Gelignite Jack where he Jack Murray and two others drove a Mini and an Austin 1800 on a similar trip testing oil for Castrol. And also "A boot full of right arms" his account of the London to Paris race in a Leyland P76. All so interesting full of technical information and adventure with man and machine
I spotted a Camira the other day, on a farm scrap heap. Have not seen one for years.
A Bootfull of Right Arms has got to be one of the greatest car stories of all time. Brilliant book.
Good bit of history a bonus well done guys
Pity there are no more locally-made cars so people will have to rely on the big utes like the Triton.
The Camiras had problems early on in terms of oil burning and engine mounts but when the last JE Camira was released the problems were gone and the 2 litre MPI engine coupled with the car's low mass meant it was a bit of a pocket-rocket compare to the ponderous 6 cylinder cars of the time. I owned one from new. Worked well and it had no problems.
Same, I owned an '88 Camira SL/X (JE) 5 speed and it was a rocket ship (for it's day). Only 85kw, but felt like a lot more. It handled very well too, and was a good "traffic light grand prix" car. (I was only 19 then)! My Dad had a crack at me for buying a Camira, due to the reputation of the JB mainly, but I proved him and other critics wrong! Owned from May 1992 (with 80,000 klms) & sold in Dec 1993 (with 108000 klms). Lot's of dash rattles due to the hard plastic and multi-piece dash & a tendancy to run hot if you left the engine idling on a hot day for too long - but apart from that, a good car!
The Mitsubishi Sigma is without a doubt the winner here, back in the day I drove both vehicles, the Sigma was more enjoyable and responsive and the Camira was agricultural and unreliable in my experience.
Well...Still see a few Sigma's around...Haven't seen a Camira for absolute Decades
People bag the Camira but the problems it had were down to the bloody LAZY workforce at Dandenong where the critters were built. The attention to detail was shoddy and the workers didn't give a stuff about them. In contrast the workers at Tonsley Park in Adelaide were treated better by their parent company and, as a consequence, the cars were screwed together a lot better. If you managed to get a good JB Camira it was a solid and reliable vehicle if a little underpowered. The Sigma was great, especially the later ones with the big balance-shaft 2.6 motor. So the conclusions of the test team here are unremarkable.
The later JE Camira with its 2 litre EFT motor was a little skyrocket as the body was light (around 960kg) and the injection system ramped the power up to 85kw. The power to weight ratio was just great. I owned an "Excutive" sedan from 1988 to 2001 and apart from the ECU getting fried because of me using an unshielded set of jumper leads, it ran like a Swiss watch.
Note what Evan Green says about locally-made cars in the video. He says that imported cars just won't cut it in the bush. Prophetic words indeed. The farmers will now have to rely on utes, not the shiny but anaemic imported sedans.
you're a fucking idiot. blaming a whole workforce because holden bought a fkn lemon
Holden didn't buy a lemon, they built them.
Things like bad engine mounts should have been fixed.
JB mira (1982) handled better and was more efficiant than than the 4s of the day ( bit like a Mk1 Passat was better in 73?
& the JBs 1.6 was good for its size.
Only the early ( leaded) JD are any good, the powerful 1.8 was destroyed by the cheap/nasty unleaded mods, (Holden doing a Leyland ?)
JE? (I've owned one early 2010s) a good car for 1987 did countless Melb - Adel trips in it ( wagon & loaded, thanks to my fucking unreliable vans) used less fuel & didn't hold up the trucks.
A 25 yo, hated car did not let me down
But in its day, the bigger, wider Magna stole the show & with a bad rep + aging design, the show was over for Camira by 89
YOU are the idiot. In other countries where the "J" cars were built...the US, Canada, Germany, Japan and the UK the cars were quite okay. Only in Australia were they buckets of shit until the début of the first non-pollution JDs and then the JEs. The JB could have been a good car if the workers had screwed the bloody things together properly. They didn't and GM didn't modernise its plant to accommodate necessary changes in order to build the J car platform cars properly.
Brings back memories of my brand new Sigma which looked exactly like this one with the Astron 2600 engine
After the warranty period(or maybe before) I got a lumpy camshaft and side-draft Weber carby
Made it rev a lot harder
I've got a Scorpion narrow block 2.6 in my LA Lancer with an excellent camshaft and twin Weber 45mm DCOE carbs that revs to 8 grand. The Lancer is a real weapon.
Great Vid, nice to see stuff like this from the past! Funny how time has told a different story about the Camira's..... Gee...... Juicy lemon comes to mind!!!
The amount of people doing insurance jobs on Camiras back in their day says it all really.
I can't account for the Camira but I had a GE Signa SE with the 2.0 L Astron 5 speed manual while my sister owned the GH, again with the 2.0 L Astron. They weren't new but still well on the short side of 100,000km. Both engines developed cracked in the block radiating from the head bolt holes to the water jacket, three cracks each hole. These cracks were discovered in both cars when the heads were removed to investgate coolant loss. It turned out both cars had cracks between the inlet and exhaust valves. I have not touched a Mitsubishi since however my som bought an Evo8 more than ten years ago and my sister bout an Outback ladt year, they both love them. I guess sometimes manufacturers do learn lessons.
You never see either of these around Melbourne anymore, whereas you still see many other cars from that era
You don’t see much cars from 1982 driving around
You won't see any Aussies in Melbourne anymore either 😳
Exactly and thats why there are no icons left on the road either. They all want their imported plastic while they destroy what was left of a once great country @@ACDZ123
@@ACDZ123 Oh no! scary different looking people! Be careful dmfk you might have to talk to one and make eye contact, will you run home to your mummy?
That W123 240d was a tank. Virtually indestructible. The cars were lowered for improved road handling. If they raised the springs a bit, it would have been rock solid. Plus the comfortable leather seats, air-conditioning & powersteering made the trip a joy.
As for the best car in the outback 😂😂 The flat 4 Beetle could go anyway. Cheap, simple & robust.
Wheels magazine, proudly published by Holden😂😂😂
That'd be a JB Camera, the 2.0 JE's were a much different vehicle. Resale these days, the Sigma (especially the 2.6) is quickly snapped up, and the Camira's recycled.
The Benz as backup, adventurous choice, should have gone with a South Australia Armored Car - aka Valiant Wagon :)
On a quiet, still night. If you got up close to either of these cars, and had good hearing; you would have been able to hear them slowly rusting.
I was one of the poor sods who bought a Camira when they came out in 1982 and this was based largely on reviews from Wheels and the like. What a mistake that was...it was the biggest heap of junk and I couldn't get rid of it quick enough, though I did persever for 12 months after which I bought a Mazda and I can tell you...what a difference,......everything went wrong in the Camira and when taken to have the problems rectified, the Holden clowns would break something else....It spend more time getting repaired than I had it on the road (it seemed like that anyway). The final straw was when it broke down crossing a railway crossing (ON THE CROSSING). The 323 was flawless, reliable and well built.
I can tell you I was not alone in my problems with the Holden. A number (4 I think) workmates also bought them and had similar problems.
I vowed never to buy another Holden and to date I have not. I have had other Mazdas and they have been great reliable cars that served us well.
Holden (and Ford) have taken us for mugs for decades thinking we will just take what they serve up....and they certainly do have rusted on devotees that can't see beyond their loyalty and look at the rubbish rationally.
Great reminder and great documentary...though I now, with more wisdom, take car reveiws with a grain of salt as they are often written (done) by people who have no clue and don't care other than to keep their job (IMHO)
Broke down on the crossing. Gee, I bet you were wishing for side airbags?
Would have even better if a train had hit it after i got out. that way, no body else would have had to suffer it and I would have got the insurance, but alas that was not to be
Mal S Tell us about your 1983 323 and your other Mazdas.
I worked at Rocca Bros in Adelaide and I remember the Camira being a nightmare with its NINE moulded water hoses. It doesn't really have an internal engine water jacket, all of the water is routed around by hoses with some sharp bends so that you really can't substitute straight hose, you either have to find the correct part number or find another hose with the same bend in it that can be cut down to fit. On the other hand we seemed to sell a lot of timing chain components for all Mitsubishi models, including Sigmas.
I can remember stopping in at Rocca's on Bridge Rd regularly to pick up parts for friends and family's cars. Was the best place to get any part you needed. I'd bet you served me at some point.
Great motor journalist crunching gear change at 5:36
Probably just the camira throwing a syncro
My Dad purchased a Camira, was good for the first 6 months, then things started going wrong with it, and then breaking down often as time went on.
It was a classic lemon of a car
Used to work on the GN Sigma under warranty back in the day 😏
Wouldn't drive Dave 40 k's back to his vehicle? City Folk!
Mitsubishi were the first of the manufacturers to leave Australia too bad because they made some vehicles that had near bulletproof engines .
I had a Chrysler Sigma and then a Mitsubishi Sigma and the engines outlasted the rest of the car
Jack Absalom preferred the Mitsubishi Sigma.
"Should have brought the worst car in the class."
Turns out you did. The Camira was an absolute POS.
Unfortunately Peter Robinson was madly in love with Peter Hanenberger, Holden's boss, and so basically anything Holden churned out at the time was automatically awarded Wheels Car of The Year.
I had a coulpe of old Holdens - HT and HG and a VB Commodore plus a JD Camira and apart from the HT, every car gave me either gearbox, engine or build quality hassles. The trimatic in the HG and VB played up and used massive amounts of oil. The interior bits in the VB just fell apart around me, plus the heater /demister/aircon was completely below par for local conditions. With the Camira.....well it was just the whole car. Where do i start?
I now drive a 2012 Corolla sedan, and other than regular servicing, I've never had it off the road.
Toyota now sits at No.1 and whats left of full importer Holden in No. 10 or 11 in the sales ladder.....i wonder why? They just never got their quality and design issues sorted. The Toyota just does its job, and gives me no bs. I will be owning many more.
Wow who’d leave someone stranded in the desert these days?
The Camira was a mistake Holden never recovered from. They were good for nothing but ballast. The Sigma was a rust bucket.
My neighbour had a Sigma back in 1994, never left the sealed roads of Melbourne, comfy car but it suffered numerous oil leaks and was an EPA Alert due to blowing smoke, maybe he didn't get it serviced. The Japanese and South Koreans gradually chipped away and one by one the Australian car makers sank. My daughter bought a 2007 Corolla brand new in 2007 and it's still with us today, 350,000kms and never misses a beat. While it's primarily a "city" car, driven with care it does the outback no problems at all, we have been to Menindee, Cobar, Nyngan, Bourke and done Broken Hill and back three times from Condobolin with no problems at all. Interesting to comapre the fuel consumption between the Holden and Mitsubishi, fairly close. I wonder what Peter Wherret would have said?😉
great upload
A shame camira's turned out so bad in the end post wheels car of the year award. Sigma did better in the areas of quality of build and durability. Sigma was underrated compared to the camira in the end based on what the camira had turned out in the end with its poor build quality and poor durability. If I was around in 1982 and was asked which car i'd pick, I would definitely have gone with the Sigma even though it didn't have as much space as the camira. It would've probably towed a trailer better due to the fact it was rear wheel drive. Also the Sigma had more power and even more so in 2.6 litre form.
Yer... when Wheels gave that shitbox car of the year that year, that was the end of any respect I had for that publication. Not that I had much in the first place, I was a Street Machine magazine fan att so most cars in Wheels were pretty pedestrian to me!
@@originalsusser also the fact that Holden had the ambition to do it and perhaps it would've turned out ok if not for the build quality issues and engineering flaws. Basically one had said that Holden "bit off more than they could chew". There was some great engineering aspects about the Camira and the intention was good but ultimately didn't spend enough time getting the production men up to speed with the camira's different quality standard compared to that of the Commodore. Also holden had stuffed up in another way with the Camira which led to the camira being too similar in dimensions to the Commodore and it ultimately led to the Camira "cannibalizing" Commodore sales and that was a bad omen as far as all that was concerned.
@BlairSauer Hey there Blair firstly I had to Google after reading your post to see what I had missed. OK w/the exception of fuel injection, which was widely coming soon, there was nothing. Your pic puts you maybe 30s 40s, too young to have experienced Camira as a new car. 1st & foremost I'm a Holden fan, Fords r ok too, so take what I'm about to say without insult pls. The Camira replaced the Gemini a similar international platformed car that was clearly better built & engineered as well as popular. They were a small car, a different class to Commodore & no direct competition. Camiras were a cheap shitty plasticy ugly abomination that took Holden down a notch & led to them never trying to repeat that mistake again. After Camira all small Holden's were completely badge engineered. It was the 1st Holden I hated & caused me to take plenty of flak from my Ford supporter friends for it's endless list of issues. In the late 80s, when my car fan days were behind me, my wife's brother bought a mint 83 one. Old lady owned low kms, garaged, like new. I told him to never drive it & it may be worth something one day, of course he couldn't afford to do that & used it as a daily driver. Within 6mths it was rusting, falling apart, internally & mechanically & forever breaking down. Quit your romance over this car it's not worth it. Look at Calibra if you want to fawn over a Holden that's not Commodore at least it looked good even if it was another rust bucket shitbox
@@originalsusser yes I am too young. I'm 28. The reason why I've told you what I told is that I read up on a lot of this. I read up about cars daily and I've read old reviews from around the time a particular car was released. That is the case with the Holden Camira and other Australian cars I've read up on. My profile picture is pretty old now. It has been my profile picture since I set up my Gmail account way back in 2014. I sure don't look as handsome now I have to admit. I have a passion for cars and have had that most of my 28 years bar a period there where I was obsessed with washing machines. There's a hint. A lot of these articles I've read about a lot of the cars can be found in digital form as well as old magazines that may still be out there. Most of these cars occurred well before my time.
@BlairSauer you did seem genuine & hence why I kept my criticism to the car & not you. As is the case today, don't believe all you read! Many journalists in those days, as maybe today, do 'paid' articles. Believe me as someone who was there, there was nothing special or innovative about Camira. It was a cheaply made replacement for the Gemini that had no better tech, except fuel injection models, which were far from the norm. The majority were carburettor as my bro in laws one was! The fact it was Wheels car of the year was widely considered a joke att. Get yourself a paper copy of Wheels & examine the ads & compare the stories, you'll see a correlation
Digging the music to classical soul beats
Has a mechanic on board and still drives away leaving women stranded on the side of the road 😂😂
Great vid! Reminds me of the Leyland bros
I'm totally bewildered as to how these two cars function without a computer, eighteen odd sensors, fuel injection, electric windows, central locking , ABS, and cruise control.
My current daily driver doesn't have any of these except for fuel injection and central locking.
To think that people now think they need a 4wd to do the same trip...😂
With the obligatory rooftop tent, $3000 bullbar and $5000 wheels and tyres.
They probably do. City cars are not made for these conditions and the roads have become badly rutted.
Learned to drive in a GK Sigma. It had power windows and air conditioning...
Just no power steering.
Imagine the bogan knuckle dragging workers who slapped all of Australias cars together back in the 70's n 80's. None of them gave a shit
flavour1970 lift your arms drongo, you'll wear your knuckles out
That was a great review and I have owned both of them back in the day
I had a 2.0 5 speed camira and thought it was great until it dropped a valve and half destroyed the engine
My sigmas were Japanese imports so not quite the same but I preferred driving the sigmas
The camira was a good idea and would have been a good car if Gm Australia been counters had not been involved with it👍👍
Sigma is a classic these days...
My grandparents had a Sigma grandpa was a mechanic he loved the Sigma. I’m in my 50’s so I’m going back 35 plus years now.
Well history shows how wrong they got this - the Camira ended up being one of the most unreliable and despised vehicles in the country and was soon withdrawn from the market.
I remember reading the Wheels mag article on this road test. So good to see the Sigma and Camira on film. Shame about the Camira. GM-H just couldn't get a handle on the build quality, unlike MMA. The world's worst Camiras were assembled by GMNZ in Trentham. After about 1984, local assembly switched to badged engineered Isuzu Aska 1.8 and 2 litre with 5 speed manuals, because they were easier to assemble. Apparently. You never see them now. The humid island climate rotted them all.
I never understood why Holden released the JB Camira with such a relatively feeble engine. It should have been the 2.0L from the outset.
The Camira wagon/estate was a wonder of Australian engineering. It had more load space than the Commodore wagon.
It seems odd to think now, but in 1982, Holden expected the Camira to be outselling the Commodore and be its main model by 1985. It didn't happen... but what a strange world it would have been, if it had!