I was a 90 hour pioneer grinding away in the door to door work month after month. If someone would’ve told me that the day would come when I could count my time by standing mute beside a cart, I would’ve told them that they were nuts.
i agree with you, we were really pioneering:)) but at least we had many bible studies and we were so happy to watch the progression to baptism of our students
I think they do it to catch up on their cell phone video game skills! That's why it was never done before; (other than street witnessing in cities, where you yourself were the cart!
I never thought about this but, you’re right. I once invited my cousin to a Sunday meeting when the circuit overseer was there, and after the meeting I asked her what she thought about the talk and she said that our teaching of the Bible was so simplistic like the preacher was talking to kindergartners. I was a little offended, and asked her how it could be bad to make Bible learning simple and understandable…? I did not get it back then, but after being awake for a year now, I totally get it!
@kathyowens PATRONISING is the word to be used for when "teachers" teach. This practice is to dumb down the listener who is seen to not have the intelligence to be able to discern meanings or be able to interpret rather scriptures.
YES! I had a similar experience with someone visiting the KH. They came away feeling like it was preschool Christianity..... embarrassing and patronizing.
When I watch any governing body talks I always think why are they talking to their members as if they are little children. The tone of their voice, slow speech and mannerisms are how you would talk to a child. This is a technique of dumbing down, talking to them as if they are stupid and can't understand anything so they need to explain things over and over again. Soul destroying and brain damaging torture. I love listening to your great voice. Thanks for all the insightful vids. ❤
YES! They speak to people as if they're children, uneducated....with leading comments and questions. Check out Gerritt Losch asking everyone 'who they trust' in the recent video. Embarrassing....most JW's have tuned out
We were hoodwinked, bamboozled, played the fool, manipulated,exploited, stolen from and even practically made accomplices to their criminal activity. We are hopefully clearing ourselves from this and we wonder how the “criminal body” will try to throw some of their elders and minions under the bus, to take the fall for THEM!😅
Another thought came to mind....the carts. When I was a pioneer in the mid to late 1990's there were no such thing as the carts. And I remember the talks and mentioning the false religion preachers standing in one place preaching and how very wrong it all was as the bible commands us to preach from door to door......
Look over the list of what WT has condemned as "false religious" practices in the past and you'll soon realize that WT is now doing precisely those very same things. It wasn't that long ago WT was highly critical of JWs who used electronic pads instead of their Bible at meetings. Now you rarely see JWs using a Bible and WT promotes electronic devices as a "progressive" earmark of the true religion.
Here are the instructions Jesus gave His followers when He sent them out... "Remain in the same house, eating and drinking such things as they give, for the laborer is worthy of his wages. Do not go from house to house." Lk.10:19 Watchtower kills two birds with one stone in this one verse... "...the laborer is worthy of his wages." "Do not go from house to house." Might add this one... "...eating such things as they give."
The cart I usually see doesn’t seem to be at its usual place on its usual day- no need to stand aimlessly around wasting time anymore, no more counting hours!!!
Your valuable life experience as JW was not a waste of time. You are helping countless ExJWs, active JWs and all who need to know the truth about the “truth “.
Me too I worked so hard as a mother studying with my boys as a regular pioneer for 7 years always have a in-depth comment and as I look back all my research was out of the big green books I started my journey out around 2010 it took my family over 5 years to leave I’m thankful we made it out it has only been this year that Ì even started listening to TH-cam channels I just couldn’t hear any triggering words because all those fear thoughts would come up now I am really sickened how the cult trains you to turn on your self and all the critical thinking
I'm so glad you're out Kathy! All that hard work you did, all those tears. I'm so sorry, but I'm glad you're out! I'm still working on my mother, the rest of us are out. I'm always happy to see families have gotten out!!
It started with little things not making sense, like using a scripture for something that didn’t add up if you went back and read the whole thing. I remember saying out loud to other witnesses, we have been talking about the exact same thing for weeks- (brainwashing) - the witnesses didn’t say anything back just that dead stare. The constant use of “Jehovah’s” name, more brainwashing! But the constant “new light” was eye opening. But what really was shocking was how the witnesses do not follow the government- but when Covid hit the governing body was all about everyone getting the shot! $$$$$ kick back from government! A lot of the congregation didn’t want the shot but the Elders said it was what Jehovah wants them to do! Unreal!!! There is that name “Jehovah “ they use name as a threat to scare to entice to get what they need! It’s constant fear for someone who disagrees with the so called truth. It’s really quite simple if we would just read the Bible ourselves and see - John 14:6 “ Jesus said to him, I am the way, the truth, and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me.”
Wow I’m fully awake after 18 months free, it’s amazing it looks completely different from where I am now 18 months out. Although I came in as an adult I had experienced trauma so I was an easy target for them with their “good news”!!!! Still can’t believe I was hood winked by them and become indoctrinated for 30 years. Thank you Stacy another great show. I was already dumbed down by this cult prior to waking up.
My husband gave a talk. After the talk, a JW sister came up to me and complimented it. I went up to my husband and asked, "What happened to the talk? It didn't make any sense." My husband answered, "I know, I just winged it." I was dumbfounded! At any rate, Stacey as usual, this is another great podcast. BTW, I was the sister who served the soft serve ice cream at assemblies. Yes, I remember collecting the food tickets.
That’s the most I have laughed for so long. Hilarious, and I was part of it for forty years. Thankyou so much for the giggles. Thankyou covid staying on zoom for three years then disassociated. The very reason I left. It was all a kindergarten and would you believe I grew up and didn’t need any of it anymore. Freedom.
I came in through the door to door ministry in around 1994. I thought I was the most fortunate person in the world; the education from my study delighted me. I had no idea that none of the historical dates were untrue😱.
@@Ava2969ny, long story short, I had no resources. I was just winging it 🤪! I left due to a lack of love in the congregation-our was known as the most loving in the area🤷♀️. An old evil pioneer sister consistently went out of her way to pinch an mistreat my children. The elders said it was out of their hands. I was publicly reproved for “forinication’ but nothing was ever done to this nasty woman. My children were extremely well behaved, but singled out.
I'm so sorry. It's a painful truth! It hits so hard when you realize it was all based on lying to begin with. That's why they have moved away from the 607/1914 diatribe....it's still there....but fading fast!
" I work in a special education with children with profound disabilities and if I even spoke to them the way Stephen Lett speaks to his audience my superiors would immediately remove me from being way too condescending. "
You must be about my age, I'm 65 and remember working in food service at both the circuit and district conventions! I miss those days too; though it took so many away from the program. But your theme is right on point and I've commented on it in other channels about the JW organization. I was UNSCRIPTURALLY EXPELLED 2 years ago by a couple of stooges who didn't know their Bible from a nursery rhyme. So I've now got to look at the organization from the outside, in. And as I occasionally go to a local meeting; I am appalled at the spiritual "baby food" being served by the Society! I haven't seen a Watchtower study discuss Bible prophecies in Revelation or Daniel in many years! Nor the "book study", hypocritically called now, "the congregation Bible study",;; as if the meeting no longer uses a book as a theme medium! And the topics discussed are merely application of Bible principles that any Church of Christendom would teach at their meetings!!! REALLY? We used to study deeply the Revelation book, the "Life: How did it get here? By Evolution or Creation?" the prophecies of Daniel book, and the "Is the Bible Really the Word of God?" book. These went into the scriptures deeply and used secular and scientific sources to reason on hard hitting evidence. To develop "your powers of reason" as exhorted at Romans 12: 1. Eph. 5: 10, "keep on making sure of what is acceptable to the Lord", Acts 17: 11, ...."examining the scriptures daily, so as to see whether these things were so,"......"make sure of all things, hold fast to what is fine."--1 Thess. 5: 21 It's like what's more important to this current governing body of Pharisees is that you pledge allegiance to THEM, AND JUST TRUST THAT WHAT THEY INTERPRET IS BASED ON PROPER SCRIPTURAL APPLICATION AND UNDERSTANDING! JUST BLINDLY TRUST THAT THEY SOMEHOW ARE GETTING REVELATIONS FROM ANGELS ON WHAT IS IMPORTANT TO STUDY AND WHAT IS TRUTH! "Just blindly have faith in US, NOT THE BIBLE, EVEN IF WHAT WE SAY DOESN'T MAKE SENSE! Yet according to the 2/17 Watchtower pg. 26 and other references; "the faithful and discreet slave is not inspired nor are infallible. They can err in doctrinal matters or organizational direction."!!!!!!!! SO THEY'RE NOT INSPIRED OF GOD, BUT WE'RE TO STAKE OUR LIVES ON THEIR NARROW MINDED STUPIDITY AND SCRIPTURAL IGNORANCE IN MATTERS OF DOCTRINE AND ORGANIZATIONAL PROCEDURES! Good job, man, and I say these things as a former Bethelite, former ministerial servant, former elder/Watchtower study conductor, Theocratic Ministry School instructor and Regional Building Committee Engineering department technician; covering a span of 55 years with pioneering frequently. We need good ole' Freddie Franz and Ray Franz back on the GB, giving us "solid food which will train our perceptive powers" !! (Hebrew 5: 14)
WOW!! thank you so much for sharing this! Incredible,.....some of the most educated, hardworking men have been removed because they were flat out more informed than leadership. It's incredible.....you have VAST experience and I'm sure you have some incredible stories to tell! They're most certainly the modern day Pharisees (see a past episode of this crazy show)......and the terrifying part is watching good people sit there asleep...obeying!
How about those memories??!! You couldn't wait for your friends to show up and then one week out of the month we had dessert night!!! You were 'privileged' to host us in your home right? LOL
I remember since I worked in the accounting office of every assembly I attended, I would miss the all the talks and we were advised to attend the next assembly so that we would not miss the talks. Truthfully I never did, it was great.
i was also in charge of accounting, we were the ones who reckoned the figures to thank for the donations! and of course we could walk around with our suits and the administration badge:))
One of your best yet, Stacey. You had me on the edge of my seat. I remember the "Jonadab class" lol. If they can't dazzle 'em with brilliance anymore, they gotta baffle 'em with BS.
When I was only 11 years old I learned 3-scripture sermons to try to get through at the doors! We learnt these at the Thursday ministry school. If I got through all 3 scriptures at a door, I was eleated! This was in the 1960s. Saturday was magazine work, and Sunday morning was book placements, preceeded by a sermon, usually about living in paradise. Btw in the late 60s and during the 70s if your bible study didn't get baptised within 6 months of studying, you were told to give up on them - the time was too short. This was the 'Truth book' days! I know, Im old! 😂😮😊
I remember those days! My mother came into 'the org' via the Truth Book.....JWs then were educated and worked SO HARD for this cult.....we have to keep those facts alive
I do remember these times too. When I started to be a publisher at age 11, my parents told me: but be aware, that after reaching in your first report, you are not allowed to become irregular! you must preach every month, and 12 hours are required. Unfortunately, I did it during 25 years:( And the express studies with the blue bomb the Truth book! which in its first version quoted an unknown journalist who said that in 1975 the world would be too dangerous to live in ! as a regular pioneer, i lead many students to baptism by this means, first step Truth book, after a few weeks, meeting assistance with love bombing, second step, Peace book, so they could learn about politics blood transfusions and limits of even marital sex, then baptism at the next assembly! I remember the day I gave the baptism speech at a circuit assembly, so proud to ask the candidates the 2 questions…! such a waste of time! now some of this « children » in the « truth » are already dead, and fortunately for them, there is no resurrection:))))
Oh the memories!!! I was there for all of it too....including giving the baptism talk. It's insane and surreal to look back on, but it was all we knew!@@disassociated1731
Yup, even when the GBs counsel defies logic. In other words, to believe the GB one is expected to discard common sense. It's no surprise why JWs have become an organization of dummies.
Good point. Experience differ even per country. I went to the kingdom Hall in Nigeria and America. The experiences were vastly different. In Nigeria, people were more warm, no strict dress code and more. America, people were more stand-off, had a strict dress code and other differences.
Stacy, that was excellent work. All those years of preparing public talks has translated well into your podcast. I grew up in the 80s and 90s and everything you said hit home! I lived very close to bethel in bklyn, it was just a train ride away. I wanted to add this tidbit of info; they used to have a simplified english version, and a standard english. I believe in the early 2000s. I knew this very well because i served in a foreign language cong, and the simplified english was popular among the immigrants. But the language became so easy and dumbed down, that they literally made the anouncement that they would just stick to the simple english! I remember giving my first talk and being handed the outline. I was told not to deviate from it or else. There is an elder assigned to follow your talk to closely monitor any deviations. Its a real gestapo like mentality! No pressure... lol. I remember being counseled for having a striped shirt for a talk, solid neutral colors were the mandate. Its refreshing to share experiences with cult survivors, its quite a unique experience. Fyi, for some reason I was obssessed with the hoagie sandwiches served during the conventions. The bathrooms were quite a disaster after lunch from eating those processed foods. 😅 Its a real dumbing down, they are slowly trying to walk back all their doctrines. I remember watching when the publication servant was dumping all their books during the great purge around 2015, it was surreal. I recently spoke to a young JW in their 20s and they had no idea why 1914 was so important!!! Thank you sir!
Thank you so much! I appreciate your feedback and LOVE that you shared these experiences! Oh yes, the dress shirts.....we had white shirts off stage at the circuit assembly for a brother to change into if he showed up with a striped shirt! LOL, they've ever so slyly been burying 1914 as a central doctrine. It's still there....but barely
I absolutely appreciate this type content. I’ve lost loved ones to JW, Scientology, etc. helps to bring light and also brings an empathy and understanding to those I love. ❤️
@@survivingparadisepodcast please don’t apologize for something you are in no way responsible for. If anything let me thank you. It is this exposure that reminds me that it may look like a choice. It actually a master manipulation that feeds on our natural instincts. Create a dependency in countless, well thought out tactics. If something scratches you , no big deal. It’s when your entire arm comes up missing and still don’t object. Why because we are actually good. No resentment or revenge but exposure works. A little passionate since that’s a good way to focus my energy. ❤️
So true. Very good strategy, you're clearly healing. I just feel terrible for all the good people that have suffered at the hands of this cult. I'm SO glad to read how well you're doing, big hugs!@@gigicoogler
Excellent podcast as usual! The last 5 minutes of the podcast sums up why the organization is the way it is today. Fred Franz had the org in a doctrinal choke hold and no one dared to challenge him (see Crisis of Conciensce). Even while he was alive a lot of teachings were known to be untenable. He was so diefied by most in the organization that it has taken decades to dismantle some of the teachings and this current crop of leaders don't have a clue and are just making it up as they go along.
Very well said. SO true. He was 'godlike' with JWs....like Yoda dispensing 'knowledge'....it was absurd. I had one Bethelite I know tell me how bizarre he was. He used to catch him talking to his SHOES!!
Great commentary. Sounds like you're about my age, I'm 53. I walked away in 2012. The Watchtower Society has morphed into something that bears no resemblance to the religion I remember. Dumbed down, indeed!
I listened in,from another room,while my JW mom watched her meeting from her "tablet". In less than 10 mins the speaker said "Jehovah" 20 times! Over kill! The rest of the time they were telling unpaid volinteers what to wear and what tools to bring to help on construction of a new Kingdom Hall. And, supply food! And be very careful you dont get injured! I couldnt believe what I was hearing! And,they feel privledged!
@@survivingparadisepodcast Yeah, it didn't take long to go from, "It was the woman you gave me", to "Where are the women?", did it? Or, as one Circuit Overseer said, as a way to chastise brothers looking for a mate, "are you cruising the hallways for Corridor Cuties?" Of course, he also chastised the "Corridor Cuties" for looking for "Hallway Hunks". Oy. Total cringe.
Yes Stacy , those were the days. I used to remember the food tickets. I used to love cinnamon Danish. In the UK there wasn't that much of a selection. In Italy there was a full little lunch bag.
Bacon rolls in Scotland or bacon butties in England. Sausage sandwiches or fried egg rolls. I also remember the food tickets and getting a divided tray with different foods in each bit, sitting at table and benches under canvas.
@@survivingparadisepodcast there are many great memories. The abuser doesn't abuse 100% of the time, the husband who beats up his wife doesn't usually do it all the time. Although providing information from above and saying it's inspired comes close. There were many occasions that were brilliant, mostly to do with friends, volunteering at assemblies meant as a young person you met more people and made more friends. Could do some talent spotting. You also have so much energy that you don't appreciate until your older. So it's not all bad. Pity that you lose those friends that you made, sometimes not fully, but everyone gets busy with their own life. I often wonder years later what happened to them. The good thing is you make new friends.
Vern keep the info coming bc you helped me wake up. Everything I suspected you helped confirm for me. Thank you. Your constant updates certainly are helping to waking people up that curiously surfing the internet for answers of the inner workings of this scam/cult.
It's incredible how stupid that guy was...and how millions followed. He has done great damage to them now. They thought he had it all figured out.... and now they're trying to back track
This podcast hits home; and yes, there was a little bit of nostalgia that set in at the outset of this podcast. I was a tike during these times, but was old enough to remember those dang good cheese danishes running out expeditiously. Lol. Fortunately, I was a lil bit of a charmer and had older sisters hold some out for ur boy. Lol Several things that came to mind: 1. You had Russell who believed he was the Faithful & Wise Servant in love w/ his own writings, then JF Rutherford who not only hijacked the organization, but was both in law and in love w/ his own voice, then the combo of Knorr & Fred Franz who championed themselves as bible scholars running the show. After Franz, (which u mentioned) slowly but surely the Charlatan Act began to erode. 2. It became apparent once the 8 guys declared themselves as the only Faithful & Discreet Slave, & not a class composite of the 144,000, the attention was going to be strictly how all bible prophecies, stories became about them. 3. Once they rewrote the Bible to remove words, phrases, & made it the ultimate JW theology friendly book, the articles had to coincide moving fwd 4. It became abundantly clear they, themselves, couldn’t explain the deeper things any longer w/ too much info becoming publicly available, therefore they had to switch gears 5. The congregants, as discussed on previous podcast, vastly are not bible readers nor are they article readers, so sitting back looking at music videos, “experience” videos, and cartoons are just fine for them 6. Many Elders were fine w/ the title in itself b/c it gave them power & prestige w/in the organization, so I personally know a lot who were just fine w/ the 30 minute reduction, + once the org provided all illustrations & visuals, it made their jobs 10x easier, while also becoming dumbed down as puppets. 7. It’s been a clever way to not only condition its members, but also strip them completely away of any individuality they had left.
Outstanding list of thoughts, thank you for posting them! It's all so true and provides a roadmap for how they've dumbed down millions. But most of the younger generations don't know any better and don't care. Cartoons are more fun.....even if they're conditioning them to worship guys in NY!
@@survivingparadisepodcastNail meets hammer. Exactly. Also, it appears the JW organization is slowly taking notes and the playbook from similar sectarian religions like The Church of Latter Day Saints, & also the Church of Scientology. The JW religion is rebranding themselves just like The Church of Scientology after all of the stories, secrets, & allegations came fwd. They’ve commercialized this religion, trying to make it appear more welcoming, children friendly, w/ leaders out in front. Like The Church of Latter Day Saints, The JW religion have turned to teaching cartoons, have now been encouraged to give teenage boys, and young men who are “exemplary” opportunities to become MS & Elders. It was unheard of back in the day for a kid who was 15 to become a MS, or a young man who’s 23-4 to become an Elder. The LDS Church have been doing this for yrs, & it keeps the new generation engaged.
I agree 100% with you. Im nearly a decade ahead of you & I noticed the dumbing down in the 80's. Also, the 80's brought a heightening of "skinning & throwing the sheep about." I think that was brought on by the turmoil that was going on in Bethel. Hind sight. They had to tighten control. Its fascinating that I told my family that the org was going to a 5th grade level...& I hear the exact grade level echoed in comments now. Looking back the level of seriousness & GRANDIOSITY is frightening. Seeing the mental illness that was created by those elements along with lifelong fear, hate & lack of a real life is tragic! The mental illness is now coming out in truly mind blowingly destructive ways that we would never have believed that JW's were capable of. Once you are on dry land, looking back at the ones going down in the quick sand of the muddy waters is heart breaking. So many red flags. My brain does a wierd thing where it breaks everything down to its simpliest form. I think of it as finding the common denominator of fractions. I think my simplistic way of seeing things, the cruelty & my dads pointing out of red flags are what made me finally "see". Being subjected to hours of crazy Freddy talks at conventions has made me be so triggered by the sound of his voice that I wonder how on earth my mom thought that was ok. Really?
As I mentioned elsewhere in this video, Freddie Franz had the organization in a doctrinal choke hold. Freddy's mental decline began in the mid to late 80s until he died in 1992 so that's when the other governing body members started to take control but they had to thread carefully because of the legacy of teachings that Fred left behind. It has taken many decades for these bumbling fools to try to dismantle some of his teachings but they themselves are so incompetent that they don't know how to go about doing it.
@heatherwillson4862 -- when you say "the mental illness is now coming out," are you referring to the bombing in Kerala and the shooting in Germany? Or something else?
@@Ava2969ny Oh, yes, those incidents & much, much more. There have always been a few people who clearly had issues & all you could do was be kind. Then it has been very painful over my life time to watch while friends & even family have struggled with mental illness. I even have been subjected to serious violent threats to the public & myself & others stemming from the damage of mental illness caused by this org. As I get older & learn more, it starts to become clear about where its coming from. It is coming to a real head now when combined with the virus, loss of income & jobs. Its a huge wide spread problem.
@@heatherwillson4862 - every time I think about the red flags I saw as I was studying, I could kick myself for not realizing that something wasn't right. Behavior by certain people I met that seemed off, yet I didn't pay enough attention. After I read about the Keego Harbor deaths, and how her own family members behaved toward her, was when I seriously started to see the extent of mental illness.
SO true Heather!!! It began then and my brain is very similar! Those moments something was said at a meeting, my brain clicking....and then looking around at everyone's faces......asleep, daydreaming, dazed......it was chilling. I'm so glad you had your father.....but those Freddy talks were something else, weren't they???
Ah, the good old days... When there were fewer red flags and alarm bells... And it was harder to wake up (especially during the 90s, because we all KNEW the new system would arrive before the end of the 20th century; we had it in writing). The dumbing down has evidently been quite gradual (like putting a frog in cold water and boiling it slowly). I hadn't seen any JW Broadcasting until a couple of years ago - and the Infantilisation hit me straight away. it was such a weird feeling; seeing and hearing them all speak at half-speed. P.S. Sorry if you covered this aspect. I'm commenting 25 minutes into the video.
OUTSTANDING illustration of the frog in boiling water!!! They've been doing it so slowly, but it's all finally here. Soon 1914 will disappear, along with many other doctrines. We didn't believe we needed to look deeper, like you said, the end was coming any second
Great episode. Unless I missed it, you forgot the “simplified” version of the Watchtower. They had that for a few years and then decided to not make the regular Watchtower anymore, just the simplified.
Oh this brings back memories. I remember the food and drink areas. My mum use to volunteer as she was in catering. I was often allowed to help as a kid. It was often better than the bore of some of the talks.... when they stopped the serving of food my mum and I volunteered in the mum and baby room or section if at a place where there wasn't a dedicated room. It was often very busy and very noisy but hey, at least it wasn't boring and I had reasons to be walking about during the talks as a volunteer or attendant. I also was an attendant for the toilets. Brothers did the male loos and sisters the female loo especially at soccer stadiums. One time there was a shortage of loo roll and I remember having to hand out a few rolls to each sister going into the loos. But it beats falling asleep during those boring talks....also great way to meet the opposite sex.....lol
@disassociated1731 yes, but where we use to have the big district the men's loos were next to the ladies loos and one time me and this young man stood the entire time especially during the boring talks chatting.....lol. Great Times those.....
@@sharonwoodward7741 great art of theocratic romantic seduction:))) some rays of happiness in our strict and controlled little world! smiles and restrained sensuality, and after that reading the song of songs about love, apples, honey and charming virgins:))
YES!!! Younger generations will never understand this.....we took all of those jobs so we could get up and move during the boredom. Cleaning, the sound department, food....anything to be active. Conventions in those days would last a week too!
Part of a poem I wrote a few years ago: "The food is now milk of the word A formulaic starter It feeds the masses, fills their tums They're waiting for a main course Which sadly never comes. They're blinded by the brand new light That keeps their thoughts at bay The first and second generations have died or are now dying And the third and fourth are showing signs of grey."
August 15th 1968 Watchowever Study Article "Why Are You Looking Forward To 1975?" 37 paragraphs. Sitting through that one was brutal! Then soon after the Defense Department called me in before the draft board! And they sent me to a big Hall where about 50 of us had to strip naked and do our physical to make sure we were healthy enough to be executed in battle in Vietnam! Oh but what was I thinking about? I was looking forward to 1975!!! That's all that was on my mind as the medic told me to turn my head and cough! 🙏 Oh Jehovah please start the tribulation early before a motor blows me to pieces! Or I end up in Federal Prison as a coward! 😮
This is BIGGER than people realize! Many guys in our congregation were affected and several spent time in jail! It may have saved their lives. Even I had to enlist on my 18th birthday in 1980's......big thing to do and scary
I completely missed the separate WT editions. When I finally heard about them, I knew that they had to hide some "truths" from the public. And it was a legality. It adds to the grandiosity for members to think they know "secrets"! When were the Bound Volumes discontinued? That was another legal move.
Wow - this was memory lane. I enjoyed the Tuesday night book study and I owe my reading skills to those meetings. We went through the Revelation Book twice in those days and I studied that book seriously. I came back after going to college and starting my career in my early 30's, (early 1990's) and the doctrine was still pretty deep and at it's peak imo. I married a pioneer and what I saw in her and her family was shocking, that was the most misery I lived through except in my childhood. I remember being lifted up by my hair in front of the class in grade school for not saluting the flag (and much worse). I curse the day Ms K brought that truth book to our door. She died and I didn't get the catch to tell her she only brought misery to our lives. My last day in a Kingdom Hall (now a church with a cross on top) was when I gave my first public talk. They didn't like me much (you get soft shunned if you have an education) and when I finished they didn't clap, they just sat there with that dim hillbilly look on their faces and time just stopped for me and I will never forget it. I've been hurt more by JW's than the big bad world. I was still POMI until I watched G Jackson's ARC testimony, that was such a gut punch. That was the day I realized I'm going into the grave like everyone else. It's a cold lonely realization but at least I'm not living a lie anymore. An elder I knew as a kid died recently and I would have loved to talk to him and hear what he thought, since he told me when I was 16 that in 5 years the end will be here (that was 45 years ago). He sold his business to preach full time. Like Voltaire said "more people are fooled by hope than by deceit".
It sounds we are from that same generation. It will soon just be stories. Most JW kids have no idea what we went through during that time with the flag salute, birthdays, or anything else. I conducted the Revelation Book twice as a BS conductor.....one of the worst books they've written in modern times. I'm so glad you're out!
Too bad you can't really leave it behind, it stays with you your entire life. I'm lucky I went to college and don't have to retire in poverty. Since I married an older sister that couldn't have kids (part of the reason I married her) I have a carefree life now. There are times now I wished I could have had a family but not in this world. She of course used every avenue of Satan's System to get whatever she could get her hands on. I was lucky to be in a state that didn't require alimony. So many people wasted their entire lives worshiping the Governing Body of faithful and discreet Frauds. @@survivingparadisepodcast
Remember reading from the evolution book at the book study- my future wife and her mother were there, for some reason I kept reading orgasm instead of organism- several times!!
My most unforgettable memory was when going to a circuit convention in Fresno Ca, 1974 was working in the kitchen with a friend! We went from one job to another helping out. It was the funniest job and moment I ever experienced as a JW!! I got baptized at the age of 17 and got disfellowshipped by the age of 18. Given no real reason why… I was dressing up like a Vato and was accused of sinful living.. I’ve never been back since. I’ve been able to learn and live my life on my own. I am now a devoted Christian following the real truth!! Amen 🙏🏼!!
we were so fond of new explanations and new light! at this time, the english version was printed months or years before there translation, I remember that this was my biggest motivation for English learning. So proud to tell my family or fellow brothers some new detail about types and antitypes, analysing Elijah’s or Elisha’s lives and miracles as a type for modern history of jws… I liked this nonsense:) thinking now about it, it was for me a kind of cerebral biblical game, just as others like crosswords or sudokus. We thought FW Franz was a scholar chosen by Jesus! we had no internet or youtube to hear real scholars knowing so much more about the origin of the Bible and the biblical god…
YES!!! You weren't alone, I'm very similar in personality! Loved the Elijah/Elisha stuff.....Fred Franz was such a nutjob, but more importantly, he got people killed. Evil....and they new corporate version is trying to move a new direction
And I thought that abolishing the Theocratic Ministry School was as far as the "dumbing down" would go. As a former pioneer, I can't believe what you shared in this podcast. Thanks, Stacy, for doing so. I do have one question: Where can I watch the video of Geoffrey Jackson's talk? I'd like to see it. Would you please provide a link to it? I was baptized in 1976, and disfellowshipped in 2005. So I remember many of the past features you discussed that Jehovah's Witnesses made an integral part of their worship. From what you have shared, it's clear I wouldn't recognize this organization today. I'm glad to be free and clear. Anyone who may think about returning to the organization to revive old relationships should remember this, "Just like a dog returning to its vomit, the stupid one is repeating his foolishness." --Proverbs 26:11
Thank you!! Wow, I'm sure you have some fantastic stories and comparisons! I love that scripture on vomit, used to make me laugh as a kid. I'm happy to point you toward any talks. On Jackson: were you referring to the Australian Royal Commission trial? It's easy to find here on TH-cam and it will shock you; he lies on the stand....to everyone. You can find some of his awful talks still posted on their website as well.
@@survivingparadisepodcast Thank you, Stacy. I'll hunt down the Geoffrey Jackson video information online. I certainly saw a lot during my thirty years laboring in the WTBTS vineyard. From the heady, frenzied days leading up to the great 1975 disappointment to the governing body's transformation into the "collective papacy" it is today and the slow, steady stifling of debate and dissent within the ranks of Jehovah's Witnesses, I've seen enough to fill the pages of several books.
I can only imagine! Yes, please do search for the Australian Royal Commission trial. Prepare to fall out of your chair. Elders admitting they don't know what they're doing and Jackson LYING on the stand, claiming it would be presumptuous for him to say they alone are god's mouthpiece.....it's a shocker@@tellusorbit
You did it again, Stacey! Another great video that hit home. I remember when all the elders could embellish and prepare their talks. As a young, good JW girl in your generation, I never would have thought that's what you were thinking about us 😂 I was so naive.
Wherever you may be- Bill Schonley. I think part of the dumbing down is a reflection of society as a whole. Tik Tok generation and all. Back in the 80s and 90s in field service I enjoyed running into Buddhists, Muslims, atheists, bahai, etc , at the door , interesting conversations. I've been out since, but sounds like they deflect from any deep discussions now. Enjoy your channel!
WOW, so many memories just flooded back with this post. Remember preparing to talk to educated people from other religions. there were even publications. NOT anymore! Bill Schonley....whoa, Blazer announcer??
When my wife asks if i've studied for the meeting i tell her, "it's the same info i've studied for 40 years, i could give their parts without even looking at the material", and if it's their ever changing "new light" i say " what's the point? Their understanding will just change again". Obviously she isn't thrilled but what can she say?🤣 Like the 4/22/1970 Awake says of the churches regarding changing doctrines ...."How can you have confidence in anything? How can you believe in the bible, god or have faith? Now the pope and our priests are telling us this is not the way to believe any more, but we are to believe the 'new things'. How do we know the 'new things' will be truth in five years." Enter JW's 'New Light' and the ever changing doctrines they condemned the Catholic church for. How do you know in 5 years 'the truth' will still be 'the truth'? You can be guaranteed it won't be and you could easily be DF'd if you followed the Old, 'New Light'. Not to mention the many that were DF'd in the past that were actually in line with what is now "New Light' approved. Absolutely ridiculous.
I completely agree with this reasoning. It's made everything pointless, with the cherry on top being that new from the Annual Meeting a few weeks ago: everyone can decided to be a JW during the Great Tribulation....when there is physical proof that the Governing Body ARE Jesus guys.........so I think I'll wait LOL
👋🏼Excellent information, as usual. I no longer try to comment at the meetings, just may offer to read a Bible text once in a blue moon. It’s too dumbed down and extremely repetitive now. Thanks, Stacey.❤👍🏼
@@survivingparadisepodcast It's tough... I do not want to lose my Husband, Parents, Siblings, and whole lifetime friends by leaving the WTBTS... Just can't at this time...😔
I remember all of that , the Danish, the tickets 😅... They are dumbing down, they used to speak faster, without all those prepared cards to read, we only had our bibles and we were flying through as fast as we could to keep up, taking notes at the same time ..
You make some excellent points! Great radio voice too 😊 I find that JW don’t want to talk to me about the Bible and they certainly are not able to defend their faith. I’ve spoken to elders (and recorded it!) and they were unable.
as a kid, circuit or district assemblies were our only theocratic distractions, I found it pleasant, we were told that they were our feasts, joyful as in ancient Israel:) we went there one day before, because dad was in charge of volunteer service, and my uncle supervised cafeteria and cooking. And we stayed at least one day after. We met with other children of the jw nomenklatura:)) At this time, songs were played by a small circuit orchestra, on Friday morning we used to meet our musician friends and trained together. We would try other instruments, it was a big fun. Later, we would experience our first theocratic romance to see and guess the smiles of the young sisters who distributed the meals:))) it was our nice and innocent world, a time when we thought we were blessed to live in the truth! On the other hand, we needed much more time to wake up than other jws who perhaps had bad experiences in their early jw life…
Yes, yes, yes!! Incredible memories!!! I loved being in Dodger Stadium and listening to the orchestra. All the jobs we did.....all the friendships formed. Incredible times.....and that entire dynamic is LONG gone in JWs
I remember the Swiss miss puddings, vanilla and chocolate. And the little individual bags of fruit. Even though the conventions were so boring and my parents wouldn’t even let me draw as kid, I was always excited to go to the cow palace in SF and loves the dramas! Oh man but the songs were horrible , maybe only 3 or 4 were tolerable. So glad that Jesus himself drew me out of this watchtower deception. 🙏
This mass dumb down was definitely already in motion when I left! You could see it even in little things like revising the song book to “simplify” it because supposedly the songs were too long, had too many big words, and were too hard to sing. They started re-writing books or eliminating books like the commentary of Revelation or YPA. It seems like I may have come through the organization a bit after you based on some of your memories, but I do absolutely remember that the WT used to be invested in at least pretending that you were supposed to be researching and reasoning on this stuff even if they insisted on you coming to their predetermined conclusions. No matter how convoluted the teaching, you were supposed to be able to explain it, cite historical connections, do the math on the “time, times, and half a time,” quote at least a few key passages for every major doctrine, etc. We were being made to believe that were first and foremost “Bible students.” Now, that is gone. The whole thing now is not about understanding anything, just being blindly obedient no matter how ridiculous or contradictory the direction coming out of the GB happens to be. This organization was always difficult for people with any education or common sense to be a part of, but I imagine now it’s completely intolerable. I seriously think that much of the crisis of mental health in the JWs boils down to folks collapsing under the weight of soul-crushing imposed ignorance and being forced to tamp down all the cognitive dissonance. Women, especially, seem to be hit hard because it’s very common that the smartest people in the room at the KH are female and they’re asked to be silent or even co-sign the nonsense. I’m deeply grateful that I got out and hope that everyone else still trapped gets out too.
YES!!! We may have been through the org at different times, but everything you said here is true. There is no pretense of being scholarly or intelligent anymore. The song books are something else. They don't even need to understand the Bible, they just need to stand next to a book cart like a mannequin.
@survivingparadisepodcast It's beyond sad. Many of my extended family are still in, but many of my generation have quietly left over the years. They only make the most half-hearted occasionak attempts to talk to us about the religion because I think they know it's a scam, but they've already invested so much that they just keep trudging on. Thank you for speaking out. I didn't even start examining all that was wrong with the organization until I had already left. It was like a bell just went off for me one day, and I was done. Channels like yours are after-the-fact confirmation that I made the right choice and keep me from ever considering going back!
What do PIMO, POMI PIMI and POMO mean? The terms PIMO, POMI, PIMI, and POMO, are abbreviations commonly used within certain communities to describe different states of mind and belief. Here's a breakdown of their meanings: PIMO: Physically In and Mentally Out. This term is often used by individuals who are physically present within a particular group or organization (such as a religious or ideological group) but mentally have disassociated themselves or no longer believe in the teachings or principles of that group. It can be associated with a state of "waking up" to the inconsistencies or flaws within the group's beliefs. POMO: Physically Out and Mentally Out. This term refers to individuals who have both physically left the group or organization and mentally disassociated themselves from its beliefs and practices. It signifies a state of freedom, liberty, and happiness from the constraints or control of the group. PIMI: Physically In and Mentally In. This term is used to describe individuals who are both physically and mentally committed to a particular group or organization. They adhere to its beliefs, practices, and principles, often without questioning or critically evaluating them. It can be associated with a sense of being "enslaved" to the group's ideology or dogma. POMI: Physically Out but Mentally In. This term refers to individuals who have physically left the group or organization but still hold on to its beliefs or mindset. They may have left due to various reasons but haven't fully let go of the group's teachings or ideology. It can be associated with a state of fanatical adherence or being mentally trapped in the group's influence. These terms are primarily used within the context of religious or ideological communities and represent different stages of belief and disengagement. They serve as a way for individuals to express and identify their current mindset and relationship with a specific group or organization. What do PIMO, POMI PIMI and POMO mean? #PIMO = Physically In and Mentally Out = Wake-up #POMO = Physically Out and Mentally Out = Freedom / Liberty / Happiness #PIMI = Physically In and Mentally In = Slavery / Zombification #POMI = Physically Out but Mentally In= Fanaticism / Slavery To get your freedom you must change from PIMO to POMO if you do not want to be a POMI. #Oudjahramalegba #Zanmounda
When I look back everything the org condemned they eventually embrace the end of going door to door meant the beginning of the great tribulation the tv ministry was worldly now they have their own broadcast cart witnessing just standing there would have been condemned you had to have knowledge which during the 70s and 80s older ones men and women displayed like scholars terrible what they have become
Another great video! I wish I was around for the cheese danish fiasco haha I got into philosophy after leaving the organization as well, Nietzsche is also one of my favourites! I believe his name is pronounced “Knee-Cha” but I could be wrong! Looking forward to next week episode
Thank you on the pronunciation correction, you're right! I love that you went into philosophy! Oh, those cheeses danish's...... we couldn't wait for those and to meet girls.....that was it!
I found the entrance into philosophy very easy after leaving the organization. I think you phrased it perfectly in an older video that “your sky is a little less blue” and I feel the same way. So going into philosophy and seeing how other people look and view the world was so helpful
Sooo many great points in this! It truly is not the same religion I grew up in (1980’s to 2000). And the assembly memories about the food 🤣🤣 Keep up the good work.
Had a Lifetime membership 51 yrs Left in JW in 2021 no body has time for deep anti type foreshadowing headaches haha today I have become your father . Just videos and everyone is happy for it elders and publishers
@@survivingparadisepodcast as a society of people we’re all dumb because of the digital age JW’s made it easy to spoon feed agreed. Pressure is high for everyone can’t imagine doing this nonsense today
You lost me after cheese Danish and pretty sisters 😍 But seriously, another dumb statement from "the slave" was "if you've kept up with all your reading and studying of provided spiritual food that you have the equivalent of a college degree". Try adding that to your resume on your next job application. 😏
In 2016 when my now wife were considering a relationship she asked me this question; Who is Gog Of Magog? I guess I answered correctly as were approaching our 7 years Anniversary!😊 She had a fetish on studying the Revelation Book! 😮 Types and Antitypes clarified in the True Worship Book!
LOL, now THAT is a story! But some of us loved studying that crap. The Revelation Book was something that made me begin to 'look deeper'.....utterly absurd publication....and they mothballed it and have never written another one
Young people today, are not deep thinkers. They are taught what to think, not how to think. Not just JW's, but most in general. I can remember 30 years ago, elders that literally had the new world translation memorized in their head. They could find any passage in a matter of seconds. Kids today, don't have the discipline. Some can't read or write. And don't get me started on proper pronunciation. I cringe when I hear young people read aloud. Not just JW's, an entire generation are becoming functional illiterate. I was 40 years old when I sat in front of a computer for the first time. Up till then, I read books, thousands of them. Young people today can count on one hand the number of books they actually read. Including JW's.
Oh well, it won't matter soon. Everything on a Kindle will be electronically edited or completely deleted! And only people who have actual BOOKS will have any knowledge of anything. Everything else will be spoon-fed electronically through a screen. SAD!!!
@@cultytalk The PC Police will control thought processes through electronic apparatus. Books in the form of hard print / copy will then be banned and confiscated.
*Jw2 When I (ray franz) pointed out that the Society’s New World Translation rendering of Acts, chapter fourteen, verse 23, evidently inserted the words “to office” in connection with the appointment of elders and that this somewhat altered the sense, he (Fred Franz) said, “Why don’t you check it in some other translations that may not be as biased.”26 I walked out of his office wondering if I had actually heard what I had heard. In future days I was to remind him of these statements on more than one occasion during Governing Body sessions. ** Crisis Of Conscience 4th ed raymond franz former member of the GB of JW**
When you mentioned how you would get ready for a watchtower reading like your life depended on it I remembered how I would get ready every Saturday evening with that real thick brown bible it was that big one I hope you know the one I mean, well anyway I also had that same attitude like my life depended on it,,, great podcast Stacey.
You should read "The slow cancelation of the future" from the book Ghosts of my Life by Mark Fisher. It will help to further explain the "great dumbing down" of the watchtower.
the blood fractions came about due to my gandmother . she suffers from chronic ulcers on her ankles that never healed . the doctors said they have a new method that involves using parts of ones own blood to makle the medicine . it took months to run it up the ranks and they posted it in the back of an awake about 25 years ago.
Thanks for sharing. There is a BIG history behind the blood fractions, all of which was taught to create options for JWs once the transfusions had been taught as sin
Well, I think it is almost impossible for an educated person to read any of the literature; it is sooo patronizing, simple -- uses silly examples and simple words and so on. I guess that appeals to some but is boring -- at least it doesn't put paragraphs in ALL CAPS and use a lot of exclamation points, as we see in a lot of propaganda. I might say, though, that, as an old man, that it seems to me it has always been simplistic. Pity anyone who diverges in a public talk from the provided outline.
So true Frank. Dumbed down. If you went off script on the public talk, the elders had you as you came off the stage. There was an elder in the audience following along on the outline.......you might remember, the apostles did this to each other too.......right? LOL insane
I've never been a JW and have been constantly surprised at how simplistic their media output is, the literature is more in-depth, but not by much. The talks from the GB seem especially patronising and i sometimes wondered if there was actually a deliberation behind this, ie speaking slowly and simply is actually quite hypnotic and works even better if someone is already conditioned to slip into that frame of mind when being addressed that way. I sometimes wonder if, at some point in the past, they realised that their content aimed at children was as effective, if not more so, than that intended for adults, so they decided it was cheaper and easier to do do the former format, with a bit of light tweaking sometimes..
YES! You've discerned correctly.....it's by design. They've all been trained that way; they've changed the Theocratic School and they're openly teaching these methods. It's chilling and embarrassing to watch them speak
I was a 90 hour pioneer grinding away in the door to door work month after month. If someone would’ve told me that the day would come when I could count my time by standing mute beside a cart, I would’ve told them that they were nuts.
i agree with you, we were really pioneering:)) but at least we had many bible studies and we were so happy to watch the progression to baptism of our students
Right??? It's got to be SO BORING now! Imagine getting up to stand around for hours....it's unreal!
Wow, it was so different.......@@disassociated1731
I think they do it to catch up on their cell phone video game skills! That's why it was never done before; (other than street witnessing in cities, where you yourself were the cart!
I never thought about this but, you’re right. I once invited my cousin to a Sunday meeting when the circuit overseer was there, and after the meeting I asked her what she thought about the talk and she said that our teaching of the Bible was so simplistic like the preacher was talking to kindergartners. I was a little offended, and asked her how it could be bad to make Bible learning simple and understandable…? I did not get it back then, but after being awake for a year now, I totally get it!
@kathyowens
PATRONISING is the word to be used for when "teachers" teach.
This practice is to dumb down the listener who is seen to not have the intelligence to be able to discern meanings or be able to interpret rather scriptures.
@kathyowens890 -- what finally woke you up? How long were you in before waking up?
YES! I had a similar experience with someone visiting the KH. They came away feeling like it was preschool Christianity..... embarrassing and patronizing.
yes!@@robertgrey6101
They talk like that because they're tenderizing you! 😊
When I watch any governing body talks I always think why are they talking to their members as if they are little children. The tone of their voice, slow speech and mannerisms are how you would talk to a child. This is a technique of dumbing down, talking to them as if they are stupid and can't understand anything so they need to explain things over and over again. Soul destroying and brain damaging torture. I love listening to your great voice. Thanks for all the insightful vids. ❤
YES! They speak to people as if they're children, uneducated....with leading comments and questions. Check out Gerritt Losch asking everyone 'who they trust' in the recent video. Embarrassing....most JW's have tuned out
We were hoodwinked, bamboozled, played the fool, manipulated,exploited, stolen from and even practically made accomplices to their criminal activity. We are hopefully clearing ourselves from this and we wonder how the “criminal body” will try to throw some of their elders and minions under the bus, to take the fall for THEM!😅
Well said....and it continues!
Another thought came to mind....the carts. When I was a pioneer in the mid to late 1990's there were no such thing as the carts. And I remember the talks and mentioning the false religion preachers standing in one place preaching and how very wrong it all was as the bible commands us to preach from door to door......
My how things have changed😵💫🙄👀!
Look over the list of what WT has condemned as "false religious" practices in the past and you'll soon realize that WT is now doing precisely those very same things.
It wasn't that long ago WT was highly critical of JWs who used electronic pads instead of their Bible at meetings. Now you rarely see JWs using a Bible and WT promotes electronic devices as a "progressive" earmark of the true religion.
Here are the instructions Jesus gave His followers when He sent them out...
"Remain in the same house, eating and drinking such things as they give, for the laborer is worthy of his wages. Do not go from house to house."
Lk.10:19
Watchtower kills two birds with one stone in this one verse...
"...the laborer is worthy of his wages."
"Do not go from house to house."
Might add this one...
"...eating such things as they give."
The cart I usually see doesn’t seem to be at its usual place on its usual day- no need to stand aimlessly around wasting time anymore, no more counting hours!!!
@@Alanhock75 , I've notied the same thing by my daughter's place of employment.
Your valuable life experience as JW was not a waste of time.
You are helping countless ExJWs, active JWs and all who need to know the truth about the “truth “.
Thank you so much Judy!
Nowadays there's chatgpt and it works. There's absolutely no reason to study as a JW anymore
Silver lining in the cloud…
Me too I worked so hard as a mother studying with my boys as a regular pioneer for 7 years always have a in-depth comment and as I look back all my research was out of the big green books I started my journey out around 2010 it took my family over 5 years to leave I’m thankful we made it out it has only been this year that Ì even started listening to TH-cam channels I just couldn’t hear any triggering words because all those fear thoughts would come up now I am really sickened how the cult trains you to turn on your self and all the critical thinking
I'm so glad you're out Kathy! All that hard work you did, all those tears. I'm so sorry, but I'm glad you're out! I'm still working on my mother, the rest of us are out. I'm always happy to see families have gotten out!!
It started with little things not making sense, like using a scripture for something that didn’t add up if you went back and read the whole thing. I remember saying out loud to other witnesses, we have been talking about the exact same thing for weeks- (brainwashing) - the witnesses didn’t say anything back just that dead stare. The constant use of “Jehovah’s” name, more brainwashing! But the constant “new light” was eye opening. But what really was shocking was how the witnesses do not follow the government- but when Covid hit the governing body was all about everyone getting the shot! $$$$$ kick back from government! A lot of the congregation didn’t want the shot but the Elders said it was what Jehovah wants them to do! Unreal!!! There is that name “Jehovah “ they use name as a threat to scare to entice to get what they need! It’s constant fear for someone who disagrees with the so called truth. It’s really quite simple if we would just read the Bible ourselves and see -
John 14:6
“ Jesus said to him, I am the way, the truth, and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me.”
Wow I’m fully awake after 18 months free, it’s amazing it looks completely different from where I am now 18 months out. Although I came in as an adult I had experienced trauma so I was an easy target for them with their “good news”!!!! Still can’t believe I was hood winked by them and become indoctrinated for 30 years. Thank you Stacy another great show. I was already dumbed down by this cult prior to waking up.
My husband gave a talk. After the talk, a JW sister came up to me and complimented it. I went up to my husband and asked, "What happened to the talk? It didn't make any sense." My husband answered, "I know, I just winged it." I was dumbfounded! At any rate, Stacey as usual, this is another great podcast. BTW, I was the sister who served the soft serve ice cream at assemblies. Yes, I remember collecting the food tickets.
"Winging it" was SO common, if only people knew! Oh how we loved that ice cream, I'm glad I'm not alone! Thank you Estee!
Wow !!!! THANK YOU !! That was my ONLY fave part of going to assemblies. I looked forward to that !!! 🤣😻
Me too!!! :) @@nildarodriguez717
Tell us your age, without telling us your age. 😊
That’s the most I have laughed for so long. Hilarious, and I was part of it for forty years. Thankyou so much for the giggles. Thankyou covid staying on zoom for three years then disassociated. The very reason I left. It was all a kindergarten and would you believe I grew up and didn’t need any of it anymore. Freedom.
Thank you so much!! Laughing keeps me sane, glad you enjoyed!! Even more glad you're OUT!
I came in through the door to door ministry in around 1994. I thought I was the most fortunate person in the world; the education from my study delighted me. I had no idea that none of the historical dates were untrue😱.
@ghiajohnson1547 -- how did you find out that they were not true? Which resources did you use?
@@Ava2969ny, long story short, I had no resources. I was just winging it 🤪! I left due to a lack of love in the congregation-our was known as the most loving in the area🤷♀️. An old evil pioneer sister consistently went out of her way to pinch an mistreat my children. The elders said it was out of their hands. I was publicly reproved for “forinication’ but nothing was ever done to this nasty woman. My children were extremely well behaved, but singled out.
I'm so sorry. It's a painful truth! It hits so hard when you realize it was all based on lying to begin with. That's why they have moved away from the 607/1914 diatribe....it's still there....but fading fast!
This the #1 reason people leave!!!!!!!!!!!!!! @@ghiajohnson1547
" I work in a special education with children with profound disabilities and if I even spoke to them the way Stephen Lett speaks to his audience my superiors would immediately remove me from being way too condescending. "
Wow, agree! And thank you for helping our little people!
You must be about my age, I'm 65 and remember working in food service at both the circuit and district conventions! I miss those days too; though it took so many away from the program. But your theme is right on point and I've commented on it in other channels about the JW organization. I was UNSCRIPTURALLY EXPELLED 2 years ago by a couple of stooges who didn't know their Bible from a nursery rhyme. So I've now got to look at the organization from the outside, in.
And as I occasionally go to a local meeting; I am appalled at the spiritual "baby food" being served by the Society! I haven't seen a Watchtower study discuss Bible prophecies in Revelation or Daniel in many years! Nor the "book study", hypocritically called now, "the congregation Bible study",;; as if the meeting no longer uses a book as a theme medium! And the topics discussed are merely application of Bible principles that any Church of Christendom would teach at their meetings!!! REALLY?
We used to study deeply the Revelation book, the "Life: How did it get here? By Evolution or Creation?" the prophecies of Daniel book, and the "Is the Bible Really the Word of God?" book. These went into the scriptures deeply and used secular and scientific sources to reason on hard hitting evidence. To develop "your powers of reason" as exhorted at Romans 12: 1. Eph. 5: 10, "keep on making sure of what is acceptable to the Lord", Acts 17: 11, ...."examining the scriptures daily, so as to see whether these things were so,"......"make sure of all things, hold fast to what is fine."--1 Thess. 5: 21
It's like what's more important to this current governing body of Pharisees is that you pledge allegiance to THEM, AND JUST TRUST THAT WHAT THEY INTERPRET IS BASED ON PROPER SCRIPTURAL APPLICATION AND UNDERSTANDING! JUST BLINDLY TRUST THAT THEY SOMEHOW ARE GETTING REVELATIONS FROM ANGELS ON WHAT IS IMPORTANT TO STUDY AND WHAT IS TRUTH! "Just blindly have faith in US, NOT THE BIBLE, EVEN IF WHAT WE SAY DOESN'T MAKE SENSE!
Yet according to the 2/17 Watchtower pg. 26 and other references; "the faithful and discreet slave is not inspired nor are infallible. They can err in doctrinal matters or organizational direction."!!!!!!!! SO THEY'RE NOT INSPIRED OF GOD, BUT WE'RE TO STAKE OUR LIVES ON THEIR NARROW MINDED STUPIDITY AND SCRIPTURAL IGNORANCE IN MATTERS OF DOCTRINE AND ORGANIZATIONAL PROCEDURES!
Good job, man, and I say these things as a former Bethelite, former ministerial servant, former elder/Watchtower study conductor, Theocratic Ministry School instructor and Regional Building Committee Engineering department technician; covering a span of 55 years with pioneering frequently. We need good ole' Freddie Franz and Ray Franz back on the GB, giving us "solid food which will train our perceptive powers" !! (Hebrew 5: 14)
WOW!! thank you so much for sharing this! Incredible,.....some of the most educated, hardworking men have been removed because they were flat out more informed than leadership. It's incredible.....you have VAST experience and I'm sure you have some incredible stories to tell! They're most certainly the modern day Pharisees (see a past episode of this crazy show)......and the terrifying part is watching good people sit there asleep...obeying!
We used to have the book study at our house. 70's kid here 👋
We too at our home, in Germany!!
Me too 😂 in our home in U.K. had to get chairs from bedrooms and everywhere to fit everyone in the living room too!
How about those memories??!! You couldn't wait for your friends to show up and then one week out of the month we had dessert night!!! You were 'privileged' to host us in your home right? LOL
I remember since I worked in the accounting office of every assembly I attended, I would miss the all the talks and we were advised to attend the next assembly so that we would not miss the talks. Truthfully I never did, it was great.
i was also in charge of accounting, we were the ones who reckoned the figures to thank for the donations! and of course we could walk around with our suits and the administration badge:))
LOL!!!! I forgot about this!! Yes, they would tell us to go next week just to listen. NO ONE ever did it.....we would simply go to meet sisters LOL!
Oh boy, I bet YOU have some great insights!!! ;) @@disassociated1731
One of your best yet, Stacey. You had me on the edge of my seat. I remember the "Jonadab class" lol. If they can't dazzle 'em with brilliance anymore, they gotta baffle 'em with BS.
YES!!! WOW, you hit me with that one! The endless dissecting of the Jonadab Class.....well done my friend, fantastic example LOL!!!
Another excellent video.
I think the older ones would find the shame of ‘leaving the truth’ too humiliating.
I agree Paula, I'm covering that subject very soon!
When I was only 11 years old I learned 3-scripture sermons to try to get through at the doors! We learnt these at the Thursday ministry school. If I got through all 3 scriptures at a door, I was eleated! This was in the 1960s. Saturday was magazine work, and Sunday morning was book placements, preceeded by a sermon, usually about living in paradise. Btw in the late 60s and during the 70s if your bible study didn't get baptised within 6 months of studying, you were told to give up on them - the time was too short. This was the 'Truth book' days! I know, Im old! 😂😮😊
You're only as old as you feel. That's why I'm 73. 🤪
I remember those days! My mother came into 'the org' via the Truth Book.....JWs then were educated and worked SO HARD for this cult.....we have to keep those facts alive
I do remember these times too. When I started to be a publisher at age 11, my parents told me: but be aware, that after reaching in your first report, you are not allowed to become irregular! you must preach every month, and 12 hours are required. Unfortunately, I did it during 25 years:( And the express studies with the blue bomb the Truth book! which in its first version quoted an unknown journalist who said that in 1975 the world would be too dangerous to live in ! as a regular pioneer, i lead many students to baptism by this means, first step Truth book, after a few weeks, meeting assistance with love bombing, second step, Peace book, so they could learn about politics blood transfusions and limits of even marital sex, then baptism at the next assembly! I remember the day I gave the baptism speech at a circuit assembly, so proud to ask the candidates the 2 questions…! such a waste of time! now some of this « children » in the « truth » are already dead, and fortunately for them, there is no resurrection:))))
Oh the memories!!! I was there for all of it too....including giving the baptism talk. It's insane and surreal to look back on, but it was all we knew!@@disassociated1731
Hello alll!!!
I just realized, am actually eating popcorn (smartfood) while listening to this!!
Love it!
This was sooo great! So true! 50 yr old here newly out.
Thank you!!! SO GLAD you're OUT!!!! Same generation ;)
I think we can see all this 'Dumbing Down" on the insistence by the governing body that one should not question but only obey what they say.
Yup, even when the GBs counsel defies logic. In other words, to believe the GB one is expected to discard common sense. It's no surprise why JWs have become an organization of dummies.
Exactly. See my comment above, my friend!
Consume and obey...... sheep
Good point. Experience differ even per country. I went to the kingdom Hall in Nigeria and America. The experiences were vastly different. In Nigeria, people were more warm, no strict dress code and more. America, people were more stand-off, had a strict dress code and other differences.
That's because the cult was born and bred in America.
I used to love spending time with foreign brothers....so much kinder, warmer, helpful....America's JWs were subject to the corporation: cold
Stacy, that was excellent work. All those years of preparing public talks has translated well into your podcast. I grew up in the 80s and 90s and everything you said hit home! I lived very close to bethel in bklyn, it was just a train ride away.
I wanted to add this tidbit of info; they used to have a simplified english version, and a standard english. I believe in the early 2000s. I knew this very well because i served in a foreign language cong, and the simplified english was popular among the immigrants. But the language became so easy and dumbed down, that they literally made the anouncement that they would just stick to the simple english!
I remember giving my first talk and being handed the outline. I was told not to deviate from it or else. There is an elder assigned to follow your talk to closely monitor any deviations. Its a real gestapo like mentality! No pressure... lol. I remember being counseled for having a striped shirt for a talk, solid neutral colors were the mandate. Its refreshing to share experiences with cult survivors, its quite a unique experience.
Fyi, for some reason I was obssessed with the hoagie sandwiches served during the conventions. The bathrooms were quite a disaster after lunch from eating those processed foods. 😅
Its a real dumbing down, they are slowly trying to walk back all their doctrines.
I remember watching when the publication servant was dumping all their books during the great purge around 2015, it was surreal.
I recently spoke to a young JW in their 20s and they had no idea why 1914 was so important!!!
Thank you sir!
Cults always have to reinvent themselves to keep members in the cult.
Thank you so much! I appreciate your feedback and LOVE that you shared these experiences! Oh yes, the dress shirts.....we had white shirts off stage at the circuit assembly for a brother to change into if he showed up with a striped shirt! LOL, they've ever so slyly been burying 1914 as a central doctrine. It's still there....but barely
I absolutely appreciate this type content. I’ve lost loved ones to JW, Scientology, etc. helps to bring light and also brings an empathy and understanding to those I love. ❤️
Thank you gigi, I'm so sorry for how this has impacted your family
@@survivingparadisepodcast please don’t apologize for something you are in no way responsible for. If anything let me thank you. It is this exposure that reminds me that it may look like a choice. It actually a master manipulation that feeds on our natural instincts. Create a dependency in countless, well thought out tactics. If something scratches you , no big deal. It’s when your entire arm comes up missing and still don’t object. Why because we are actually good. No resentment or revenge but exposure works. A little passionate since that’s a good way to focus my energy. ❤️
So true. Very good strategy, you're clearly healing. I just feel terrible for all the good people that have suffered at the hands of this cult. I'm SO glad to read how well you're doing, big hugs!@@gigicoogler
@@survivingparadisepodcast the healing really does come from content like this. If you ever feel it doesn’t. It does and thank you
Excellent podcast as usual! The last 5 minutes of the podcast sums up why the organization is the way it is today.
Fred Franz had the org in a doctrinal choke hold and no one dared to challenge him (see Crisis of Conciensce). Even while he was alive a lot of teachings were known to be untenable. He was so diefied by most in the organization that it has taken decades to dismantle some of the teachings and this current crop of leaders don't have a clue and are just making it up as they go along.
Very well said. SO true. He was 'godlike' with JWs....like Yoda dispensing 'knowledge'....it was absurd. I had one Bethelite I know tell me how bizarre he was. He used to catch him talking to his SHOES!!
"potent mushrooms". The fuel that drives every Governing Body meeting.
LOL, that's my thought!
Spot On! Very Good! Thanks!
thank you so much for listening!
Looking forward to this my favourite apostate channel
Awwww, thank you!! ;)
Great commentary. Sounds like you're about my age, I'm 53. I walked away in 2012. The Watchtower Society has morphed into something that bears no resemblance to the religion I remember. Dumbed down, indeed!
I listened in,from another room,while my JW mom watched her meeting from her "tablet". In less than 10 mins the speaker said "Jehovah" 20 times! Over kill! The rest of the time they were telling unpaid volinteers what to wear and what tools to bring to help on construction of a new Kingdom Hall. And, supply food! And be very careful you dont get injured! I couldnt believe what I was hearing! And,they feel privledged!
Question: If Jehovah knows the number of hairs on your head, why could he never make sure there was enough cheese danish at a convention?
🤣🤣🤣
LOL LOL LOL..... or more girls????
@@survivingparadisepodcast
Yeah, it didn't take long to go from, "It was the woman you gave me", to "Where are the women?", did it?
Or, as one Circuit Overseer said, as a way to chastise brothers looking for a mate, "are you cruising the hallways for Corridor Cuties?" Of course, he also chastised the "Corridor Cuties" for looking for "Hallway Hunks". Oy. Total cringe.
I shared your video on the annual meeting everywhere I could I loved the way you presented it
WOW, thank you so much Kathy, that is so appreciated.....I'm not adept at sharing or knowing where to place all the content, but hope it helps!
Yes Stacy , those were the days. I used to remember the food tickets. I used to love cinnamon Danish. In the UK there wasn't that much of a selection. In Italy there was a full little lunch bag.
So much fun to remember.....wow, we didn't get cinnamon and I love those!!!
Bacon rolls in Scotland or bacon butties in England. Sausage sandwiches or fried egg rolls. I also remember the food tickets and getting a divided tray with different foods in each bit, sitting at table and benches under canvas.
GREAT memories!@@yvonne3903
@@survivingparadisepodcast arriving at 6am to peel veg.
@@survivingparadisepodcast there are many great memories. The abuser doesn't abuse 100% of the time, the husband who beats up his wife doesn't usually do it all the time. Although providing information from above and saying it's inspired comes close.
There were many occasions that were brilliant, mostly to do with friends, volunteering at assemblies meant as a young person you met more people and made more friends. Could do some talent spotting. You also have so much energy that you don't appreciate until your older. So it's not all bad. Pity that you lose those friends that you made, sometimes not fully, but everyone gets busy with their own life. I often wonder years later what happened to them. The good thing is you make new friends.
Vern keep the info coming bc you helped me wake up. Everything I suspected you helped confirm for me. Thank you. Your constant updates certainly are helping to waking people up that curiously surfing the internet for answers of the inner workings of this scam/cult.
So glad you're finding your way out! Thank you for being here and be patient, it's a journey!
Hear! Hear! That’s why I fell for dubs back in the 1970s!
Many did! 1975 was a 'thing!'
"Fixing Freddie's stupidly" thats what this is all about. that is the quote of the century. 👏🏿
It's incredible how stupid that guy was...and how millions followed. He has done great damage to them now. They thought he had it all figured out.... and now they're trying to back track
@@survivingparadisepodcast so sad. 😔
I LOVE IT! 🥰✌️👍
Thank you!! ;)
This podcast hits home; and yes, there was a little bit of nostalgia that set in at the outset of this podcast. I was a tike during these times, but was old enough to remember those dang good cheese danishes running out expeditiously. Lol. Fortunately, I was a lil bit of a charmer and had older sisters hold some out for ur boy. Lol
Several things that came to mind:
1. You had Russell who believed he was the Faithful & Wise Servant in love w/ his own writings, then JF Rutherford who not only hijacked the organization, but was both in law and in love w/ his own voice, then the combo of Knorr & Fred Franz who championed themselves as bible scholars running the show. After Franz, (which u mentioned) slowly but surely the Charlatan Act began to erode.
2. It became apparent once the 8 guys declared themselves as the only Faithful & Discreet Slave, & not a class composite of the 144,000, the attention was going to be strictly how all bible prophecies, stories became about them.
3. Once they rewrote the Bible to remove words, phrases, & made it the ultimate JW theology friendly book, the articles had to coincide moving fwd
4. It became abundantly clear they, themselves, couldn’t explain the deeper things any longer w/ too much info becoming publicly available, therefore they had to switch gears
5. The congregants, as discussed on previous podcast, vastly are not bible readers nor are they article readers, so sitting back looking at music videos, “experience” videos, and cartoons are just fine for them
6. Many Elders were fine w/ the title in itself b/c it gave them power & prestige w/in the organization, so I personally know a lot who were just fine w/ the 30 minute reduction, + once the org provided all illustrations & visuals, it made their jobs 10x easier, while also becoming dumbed down as puppets.
7. It’s been a clever way to not only condition its members, but also strip them completely away of any individuality they had left.
Outstanding list of thoughts, thank you for posting them! It's all so true and provides a roadmap for how they've dumbed down millions. But most of the younger generations don't know any better and don't care. Cartoons are more fun.....even if they're conditioning them to worship guys in NY!
@@survivingparadisepodcastNail meets hammer. Exactly. Also, it appears the JW organization is slowly taking notes and the playbook from similar sectarian religions like The Church of Latter Day Saints, & also the Church of Scientology.
The JW religion is rebranding themselves just like The Church of Scientology after all of the stories, secrets, & allegations came fwd. They’ve commercialized this religion, trying to make it appear more welcoming, children friendly, w/ leaders out in front.
Like The Church of Latter Day Saints, The JW religion have turned to teaching cartoons, have now been encouraged to give teenage boys, and young men who are “exemplary” opportunities to become MS & Elders. It was unheard of back in the day for a kid who was 15 to become a MS, or a young man who’s 23-4 to become an Elder. The LDS Church have been doing this for yrs, & it keeps the new generation engaged.
I agree 100% with you. Im nearly a decade ahead of you & I noticed the dumbing down in the 80's. Also, the 80's brought a heightening of "skinning & throwing the sheep about." I think that was brought on by the turmoil that was going on in Bethel. Hind sight. They had to tighten control. Its fascinating that I told my family that the org was going to a 5th grade level...& I hear the exact grade level echoed in comments now. Looking back the level of seriousness & GRANDIOSITY is frightening. Seeing the mental illness that was created by those elements along with lifelong fear, hate & lack of a real life is tragic! The mental illness is now coming out in truly mind blowingly destructive ways that we would never have believed that JW's were capable of. Once you are on dry land, looking back at the ones going down in the quick sand of the muddy waters is heart breaking. So many red flags. My brain does a wierd thing where it breaks everything down to its simpliest form. I think of it as finding the common denominator of fractions. I think my simplistic way of seeing things, the cruelty & my dads pointing out of red flags are what made me finally "see". Being subjected to hours of crazy Freddy talks at conventions has made me be so triggered by the sound of his voice that I wonder how on earth my mom thought that was ok. Really?
As I mentioned elsewhere in this video, Freddie Franz had the organization in a doctrinal choke hold. Freddy's mental decline began in the mid to late 80s until he died in 1992 so that's when the other governing body members started to take control but they had to thread carefully because of the legacy of teachings that Fred left behind.
It has taken many decades for these bumbling fools to try to dismantle some of his teachings but they themselves are so incompetent that they don't know how to go about doing it.
@heatherwillson4862 -- when you say "the mental illness is now coming out," are you referring to the bombing in Kerala and the shooting in Germany? Or something else?
@@Ava2969ny
Oh, yes, those incidents & much, much more. There have always been a few people who clearly had issues & all you could do was be kind. Then it has been very painful over my life time to watch while friends & even family have struggled with mental illness. I even have been subjected to serious violent threats to the public & myself & others stemming from the damage of mental illness caused by this org. As I get older & learn more, it starts to become clear about where its coming from. It is coming to a real head now when combined with the virus, loss of income & jobs. Its a huge wide spread problem.
@@heatherwillson4862 - every time I think about the red flags I saw as I was studying, I could kick myself for not realizing that something wasn't right. Behavior by certain people I met that seemed off, yet I didn't pay enough attention. After I read about the Keego Harbor deaths, and how her own family members behaved toward her, was when I seriously started to see the extent of mental illness.
SO true Heather!!! It began then and my brain is very similar! Those moments something was said at a meeting, my brain clicking....and then looking around at everyone's faces......asleep, daydreaming, dazed......it was chilling. I'm so glad you had your father.....but those Freddy talks were something else, weren't they???
Ah, the good old days... When there were fewer red flags and alarm bells... And it was harder to wake up (especially during the 90s, because we all KNEW the new system would arrive before the end of the 20th century; we had it in writing).
The dumbing down has evidently been quite gradual (like putting a frog in cold water and boiling it slowly). I hadn't seen any JW Broadcasting until a couple of years ago - and the Infantilisation hit me straight away. it was such a weird feeling; seeing and hearing them all speak at half-speed.
P.S. Sorry if you covered this aspect. I'm commenting 25 minutes into the video.
OUTSTANDING illustration of the frog in boiling water!!! They've been doing it so slowly, but it's all finally here. Soon 1914 will disappear, along with many other doctrines. We didn't believe we needed to look deeper, like you said, the end was coming any second
Great episode. Unless I missed it, you forgot the “simplified” version of the Watchtower. They had that for a few years and then decided to not make the regular Watchtower anymore, just the simplified.
GREAT catch! Yes, outstanding point....'simplified'.....because Jehovah likes to complicate things, then simplify them later LOL
Oh this brings back memories. I remember the food and drink areas. My mum use to volunteer as she was in catering. I was often allowed to help as a kid. It was often better than the bore of some of the talks.... when they stopped the serving of food my mum and I volunteered in the mum and baby room or section if at a place where there wasn't a dedicated room. It was often very busy and very noisy but hey, at least it wasn't boring and I had reasons to be walking about during the talks as a volunteer or attendant. I also was an attendant for the toilets. Brothers did the male loos and sisters the female loo especially at soccer stadiums. One time there was a shortage of loo roll and I remember having to hand out a few rolls to each sister going into the loos. But it beats falling asleep during those boring talks....also great way to meet the opposite sex.....lol
so definitively serving food was a better place to meet new brothers than serving at loos:)))
@disassociated1731 yes, but where we use to have the big district the men's loos were next to the ladies loos and one time me and this young man stood the entire time especially during the boring talks chatting.....lol. Great Times those.....
@@sharonwoodward7741 great art of theocratic romantic seduction:))) some rays of happiness in our strict and controlled little world! smiles and restrained sensuality, and after that reading the song of songs about love, apples, honey and charming virgins:))
YES!!! Younger generations will never understand this.....we took all of those jobs so we could get up and move during the boredom. Cleaning, the sound department, food....anything to be active. Conventions in those days would last a week too!
....... and sisters!!! ;) @@disassociated1731
Part of a poem I wrote a few years ago:
"The food is now milk of the word
A formulaic starter
It feeds the masses, fills their tums
They're waiting for a main course
Which sadly never comes.
They're blinded by the brand new light
That keeps their thoughts at bay
The first and second generations have died or are now dying
And the third and fourth are showing signs of grey."
Well done!!! Powerful!!
Anytime cheese danishes are mentioned I'm hooked. You got me! 😂
Cheese Danish + Cawfee!! ☕️ = Heaven 🌤
@@cultytalk😂👌🏻
WT missed the chance to control thousands with the power of the cheese danish.
That's all it took for me back in the day LOL!
Right??? if they only knew!!!@@yenbbc8840
August 15th 1968 Watchowever Study Article
"Why Are You Looking Forward To 1975?"
37 paragraphs. Sitting through that one was brutal! Then soon after the Defense Department called me in before the draft board! And they sent me to a big Hall where about 50 of us had to strip naked and do our physical to make sure we were healthy enough to be executed in battle in Vietnam! Oh but what was I thinking about? I was looking forward to 1975!!! That's all that was on my mind as the medic told me to turn my head and cough! 🙏 Oh Jehovah please start the tribulation early before a motor blows me to pieces! Or I end up in Federal Prison as a coward! 😮
This is BIGGER than people realize! Many guys in our congregation were affected and several spent time in jail! It may have saved their lives. Even I had to enlist on my 18th birthday in 1980's......big thing to do and scary
Right on, you nailed it👍
I completely missed the separate WT editions. When I finally heard about them, I knew that they had to hide some "truths" from the public. And it was a legality. It adds to the grandiosity for members to think they know "secrets"! When were the Bound Volumes discontinued? That was another legal move.
I very much agree Heather....that was a MASSIVE turning point for me
Wow - this was memory lane. I enjoyed the Tuesday night book study and I owe my reading skills to those meetings. We went through the Revelation Book twice in those days and I studied that book seriously. I came back after going to college and starting my career in my early 30's, (early 1990's) and the doctrine was still pretty deep and at it's peak imo. I married a pioneer and what I saw in her and her family was shocking, that was the most misery I lived through except in my childhood. I remember being lifted up by my hair in front of the class in grade school for not saluting the flag (and much worse). I curse the day Ms K brought that truth book to our door. She died and I didn't get the catch to tell her she only brought misery to our lives. My last day in a Kingdom Hall (now a church with a cross on top) was when I gave my first public talk. They didn't like me much (you get soft shunned if you have an education) and when I finished they didn't clap, they just sat there with that dim hillbilly look on their faces and time just stopped for me and I will never forget it. I've been hurt more by JW's than the big bad world. I was still POMI until I watched G Jackson's ARC testimony, that was such a gut punch. That was the day I realized I'm going into the grave like everyone else. It's a cold lonely realization but at least I'm not living a lie anymore. An elder I knew as a kid died recently and I would have loved to talk to him and hear what he thought, since he told me when I was 16 that in 5 years the end will be here (that was 45 years ago). He sold his business to preach full time. Like Voltaire said "more people are fooled by hope than by deceit".
It sounds we are from that same generation. It will soon just be stories. Most JW kids have no idea what we went through during that time with the flag salute, birthdays, or anything else. I conducted the Revelation Book twice as a BS conductor.....one of the worst books they've written in modern times. I'm so glad you're out!
Too bad you can't really leave it behind, it stays with you your entire life. I'm lucky I went to college and don't have to retire in poverty. Since I married an older sister that couldn't have kids (part of the reason I married her) I have a carefree life now. There are times now I wished I could have had a family but not in this world. She of course used every avenue of Satan's System to get whatever she could get her hands on. I was lucky to be in a state that didn't require alimony. So many people wasted their entire lives worshiping the Governing Body of faithful and discreet Frauds. @@survivingparadisepodcast
Remember reading from the evolution book at the book study- my future wife and her mother were there, for some reason I kept reading orgasm instead of organism- several times!!
.....and I was much more interested in the orgasm! LOL! That book was pathetic
Food tickets....that brings back memories! Poor man egg mcmuffin....washed it down with a Shasta cola
I totally remember the food tickets. Always thought that was kinda fun. My favorite food from those days was the burritos. Loved those.
I freaking loved the burritos!!! Unwrapping those babies from the tinfoil.....what a memory!
Ohhhh I definitely remember the food service at assemblies. Those hoagies that were nothing but Ice Berg lettuce🤢
There was no meat in the spiritual program, why should there be meat in the sandwiches?
LOL LOL....oh man, that just triggered so many memories.....just one lettuce hoagie and you opted for the burrito in tinfoil!
@@survivingparadisepodcast Although the Roast Beef Was pretty good from what I remember and the little chocolate puddings 😂
those warm chocolate puddings!! LOL! And the roast beef or the burrito.....big choices!@@jackthomas6952
Another great one❤
Thank you for listening!
My most unforgettable memory was when going to a circuit convention in Fresno Ca, 1974 was working in the kitchen with a friend! We went from one job to another helping out. It was the funniest job and moment I ever experienced as a JW!!
I got baptized at the age of 17 and got disfellowshipped by the age of 18. Given no real reason why… I was dressing up like a Vato and was accused of sinful living.. I’ve never been back since. I’ve been able to learn and live my life on my own. I am now a devoted Christian following the real truth!!
Amen 🙏🏼!!
Thank you for another great video! Lots of specific examples. Funny AND powerful - I love your videos! 😀⭐⭐⭐
Thank you so much Suzie!!
we were so fond of new explanations and new light! at this time, the english version was printed months or years before there translation, I remember that this was my biggest motivation for English learning. So proud to tell my family or fellow brothers some new detail about types and antitypes, analysing Elijah’s or Elisha’s lives and miracles as a type for modern history of jws… I liked this nonsense:) thinking now about it, it was for me a kind of cerebral biblical game, just as others like crosswords or sudokus. We thought FW Franz was a scholar chosen by Jesus! we had no internet or youtube to hear real scholars knowing so much more about the origin of the Bible and the biblical god…
YES!!! You weren't alone, I'm very similar in personality! Loved the Elijah/Elisha stuff.....Fred Franz was such a nutjob, but more importantly, he got people killed. Evil....and they new corporate version is trying to move a new direction
And I thought that abolishing the Theocratic Ministry School was as far as the "dumbing down" would go. As a former pioneer, I can't believe what you shared in this podcast. Thanks, Stacy, for doing so. I do have one question: Where can I watch the video of Geoffrey Jackson's talk? I'd like to see it. Would you please provide a link to it?
I was baptized in 1976, and disfellowshipped in 2005. So I remember many of the past features you discussed that Jehovah's Witnesses made an integral part of their worship. From what you have shared, it's clear I wouldn't recognize this organization today. I'm glad to be free and clear. Anyone who may think about returning to the organization to revive old relationships should remember this, "Just like a dog returning to its vomit, the stupid one is repeating his foolishness." --Proverbs 26:11
Thank you!! Wow, I'm sure you have some fantastic stories and comparisons! I love that scripture on vomit, used to make me laugh as a kid. I'm happy to point you toward any talks. On Jackson: were you referring to the Australian Royal Commission trial? It's easy to find here on TH-cam and it will shock you; he lies on the stand....to everyone. You can find some of his awful talks still posted on their website as well.
@@survivingparadisepodcast Thank you, Stacy. I'll hunt down the Geoffrey Jackson video information online. I certainly saw a lot during my thirty years laboring in the WTBTS vineyard. From the heady, frenzied days leading up to the great 1975 disappointment to the governing body's transformation into the "collective papacy" it is today and the slow, steady stifling of debate and dissent within the ranks of Jehovah's Witnesses, I've seen enough to fill the pages of several books.
I can only imagine! Yes, please do search for the Australian Royal Commission trial. Prepare to fall out of your chair. Elders admitting they don't know what they're doing and Jackson LYING on the stand, claiming it would be presumptuous for him to say they alone are god's mouthpiece.....it's a shocker@@tellusorbit
You did it again, Stacey! Another great video that hit home. I remember when all the elders could embellish and prepare their talks.
As a young, good JW girl in your generation, I never would have thought that's what you were thinking about us 😂 I was so naive.
LOL, thank you Alora!! Oh yeah, I throw myself under the bus constantly.... our public talks truly helped make a 'name' for an elder
Wherever you may be- Bill Schonley.
I think part of the dumbing down is a reflection of society as a whole. Tik Tok generation and all. Back in the 80s and 90s in field service I enjoyed running into Buddhists, Muslims, atheists, bahai, etc , at the door , interesting conversations. I've been out since, but sounds like they deflect from any deep discussions now. Enjoy your channel!
WOW, so many memories just flooded back with this post. Remember preparing to talk to educated people from other religions. there were even publications. NOT anymore! Bill Schonley....whoa, Blazer announcer??
When you say “sarcasms ahead” I know it’s going to be funny!! No disappointment in this video!😀😄
LOL, I have to warn everyone.....it keeps me sane
I remember the food tickets at the District Convention
Great memories!
When my wife asks if i've studied for the meeting i tell her, "it's the same info i've studied for 40 years, i could give their parts without even looking at the material", and if it's their ever changing "new light" i say " what's the point? Their understanding will just change again". Obviously she isn't thrilled but what can she say?🤣
Like the 4/22/1970 Awake says of the churches regarding changing doctrines ...."How can you have confidence in anything? How can you believe in the bible, god or have faith? Now the pope and our priests are telling us this is not the way to believe any more, but we are to believe the 'new things'. How do we know the 'new things' will be truth in five years." Enter JW's 'New Light' and the ever changing doctrines they condemned the Catholic church for. How do you know in 5 years 'the truth' will still be 'the truth'? You can be guaranteed it won't be and you could easily be DF'd if you followed the Old, 'New Light'. Not to mention the many that were DF'd in the past that were actually in line with what is now "New Light' approved. Absolutely ridiculous.
I completely agree with this reasoning. It's made everything pointless, with the cherry on top being that new from the Annual Meeting a few weeks ago: everyone can decided to be a JW during the Great Tribulation....when there is physical proof that the Governing Body ARE Jesus guys.........so I think I'll wait LOL
Someone posted some of the newer magazines on the exjw subreddit. I suggested they read it in Elmo's voice in their head lol.
LOL LOL LOL....this made my day
👋🏼Excellent information, as usual. I no longer try to comment at the meetings, just may offer to read a Bible text once in a blue moon. It’s too dumbed down and extremely repetitive now. Thanks, Stacey.❤👍🏼
Hang in there my friend, I'm covering a similar subject next week: why people can't/won't leave. It's difficult....we are all with you!
@@survivingparadisepodcast It's tough... I do not want to lose my Husband, Parents, Siblings, and whole lifetime friends by leaving the WTBTS... Just can't at this time...😔
Please don't! I encourage people to stay put all the time....even if they know it's nonsense, don't lose your family or your mind!@@DY2784
Those were the "Days" My Brother !
I think we have the makings of a song :)
I remember all of that , the Danish, the tickets 😅... They are dumbing down, they used to speak faster, without all those prepared cards to read, we only had our bibles and we were flying through as fast as we could to keep up, taking notes at the same time ..
LOL, YES! flying around the Bible trying to keep up......now they show a video.......it's incredible in so many ways
You make some excellent points! Great radio voice too 😊 I find that JW don’t want to talk to me about the Bible and they certainly are not able to defend their faith. I’ve spoken to elders (and recorded it!) and they were unable.
thank you, too kind,,,, radio face too! Most elders are completely uneducated and don't study.....it's embarrassing
Geoffrey Jackson, aka the Clown from Down Under…
He's really something....
front man for the band Spin At Work
makes me ashamed to be from the same country of Jackson comes from @@survivingparadisepodcast
Samson is The bible's Evil superhero.
LOL, and a real guy......you just won't catch him at a Great Clips
Ohhh yeahhhhh.
Here we go 🤜🏻🤛🏻💪🏼💪🏼.
HELLL YEAHH!!!!
I remember an Awake had the balls to say that if you read the JW literature its like a having a college degree. WOW
I remember that too!!! I need to find that reference!!!
I think one of the reasons for dumbing down is to make JWs feel even more like children.
Yes.....control. It's always about control. They're destroying children in that org
Wow the little white tickets with the red ten cents !!!! I remember those. And those nurdy guys lol
Yes! So many memories
as a kid, circuit or district assemblies were our only theocratic distractions, I found it pleasant, we were told that they were our feasts, joyful as in ancient Israel:) we went there one day before, because dad was in charge of volunteer service, and my uncle supervised cafeteria and cooking. And we stayed at least one day after. We met with other children of the jw nomenklatura:)) At this time, songs were played by a small circuit orchestra, on Friday morning we used to meet our musician friends and trained together. We would try other instruments, it was a big fun. Later, we would experience our first theocratic romance to see and guess the smiles of the young sisters who distributed the meals:))) it was our nice and innocent world, a time when we thought we were blessed to live in the truth! On the other hand, we needed much more time to wake up than other jws who perhaps had bad experiences in their early jw life…
Yes, yes, yes!! Incredible memories!!! I loved being in Dodger Stadium and listening to the orchestra. All the jobs we did.....all the friendships formed. Incredible times.....and that entire dynamic is LONG gone in JWs
I remember the Swiss miss puddings, vanilla and chocolate. And the little individual bags of fruit. Even though the conventions were so boring and my parents wouldn’t even let me draw as kid, I was always excited to go to the cow palace in SF and loves the dramas! Oh man but the songs were horrible , maybe only 3 or 4 were tolerable. So glad that Jesus himself drew me out of this watchtower deception. 🙏
So glad you were able to escape! Those puddings kept us alive!
This mass dumb down was definitely already in motion when I left! You could see it even in little things like revising the song book to “simplify” it because supposedly the songs were too long, had too many big words, and were too hard to sing. They started re-writing books or eliminating books like the commentary of Revelation or YPA.
It seems like I may have come through the organization a bit after you based on some of your memories, but I do absolutely remember that the WT used to be invested in at least pretending that you were supposed to be researching and reasoning on this stuff even if they insisted on you coming to their predetermined conclusions. No matter how convoluted the teaching, you were supposed to be able to explain it, cite historical connections, do the math on the “time, times, and half a time,” quote at least a few key passages for every major doctrine, etc. We were being made to believe that were first and foremost “Bible students.” Now, that is gone. The whole thing now is not about understanding anything, just being blindly obedient no matter how ridiculous or contradictory the direction coming out of the GB happens to be.
This organization was always difficult for people with any education or common sense to be a part of, but I imagine now it’s completely intolerable. I seriously think that much of the crisis of mental health in the JWs boils down to folks collapsing under the weight of soul-crushing imposed ignorance and being forced to tamp down all the cognitive dissonance. Women, especially, seem to be hit hard because it’s very common that the smartest people in the room at the KH are female and they’re asked to be silent or even co-sign the nonsense. I’m deeply grateful that I got out and hope that everyone else still trapped gets out too.
YES!!! We may have been through the org at different times, but everything you said here is true. There is no pretense of being scholarly or intelligent anymore. The song books are something else. They don't even need to understand the Bible, they just need to stand next to a book cart like a mannequin.
@survivingparadisepodcast It's beyond sad. Many of my extended family are still in, but many of my generation have quietly left over the years. They only make the most half-hearted occasionak attempts to talk to us about the religion because I think they know it's a scam, but they've already invested so much that they just keep trudging on.
Thank you for speaking out. I didn't even start examining all that was wrong with the organization until I had already left. It was like a bell just went off for me one day, and I was done. Channels like yours are after-the-fact confirmation that I made the right choice and keep me from ever considering going back!
What do PIMO, POMI PIMI and POMO mean?
The terms PIMO, POMI, PIMI, and POMO, are abbreviations commonly used within certain communities to describe different states of mind and belief. Here's a breakdown of their meanings:
PIMO: Physically In and Mentally Out. This term is often used by individuals who are physically present within a particular group or organization (such as a religious or ideological group) but mentally have disassociated themselves or no longer believe in the teachings or principles of that group. It can be associated with a state of "waking up" to the inconsistencies or flaws within the group's beliefs.
POMO: Physically Out and Mentally Out. This term refers to individuals who have both physically left the group or organization and mentally disassociated themselves from its beliefs and practices. It signifies a state of freedom, liberty, and happiness from the constraints or control of the group.
PIMI: Physically In and Mentally In. This term is used to describe individuals who are both physically and mentally committed to a particular group or organization. They adhere to its beliefs, practices, and principles, often without questioning or critically evaluating them. It can be associated with a sense of being "enslaved" to the group's ideology or dogma.
POMI: Physically Out but Mentally In. This term refers to individuals who have physically left the group or organization but still hold on to its beliefs or mindset. They may have left due to various reasons but haven't fully let go of the group's teachings or ideology. It can be associated with a state of fanatical adherence or being mentally trapped in the group's influence.
These terms are primarily used within the context of religious or ideological communities and represent different stages of belief and disengagement. They serve as a way for individuals to express and identify their current mindset and relationship with a specific group or organization.
What do PIMO, POMI PIMI and POMO mean?
#PIMO = Physically In and Mentally Out = Wake-up
#POMO = Physically Out and Mentally Out = Freedom / Liberty / Happiness
#PIMI = Physically In and Mentally In = Slavery / Zombification
#POMI = Physically Out but Mentally In= Fanaticism / Slavery
To get your freedom you must change from PIMO to POMO if you do not want to be a POMI.
#Oudjahramalegba #Zanmounda
Thank you for posting this.....this helps ME! I constantly get these messed up!
When I look back everything the org condemned they eventually embrace the end of going door to door meant the beginning of the great tribulation the tv ministry was worldly now they have their own broadcast cart witnessing just standing there would have been condemned you had to have knowledge which during the 70s and 80s older ones men and women displayed like scholars terrible what they have become
Yep! And it's all still there in their library. They used to BLAST televangelism .....now they have a TV studio.....because Jesus wanted one ....LOL
👏 👏 👏 SO good!
Thank you so much!
5:00 you naughty naughty filthy elder yoou....! 🤣😂
Filthy ... :)
@@survivingparadisepodcast you know i'm kidding, i knew that would get yoOU!
Giving them baby food now. It’s all infantilizing their members.
It's so painful to watch. So insulting
Hey, I liked those apple danishes! Combined with the vanilla pudding, the assembly became slightly less painful.
I also liked the apple cinnamon better than the cheese danishes
And we have our first person LOL....congrats, there were so many left for you! I've never been an apple fan, but what a choice back in the day!
Wow, we never had those! @@fitcwebb
Another great video! I wish I was around for the cheese danish fiasco haha
I got into philosophy after leaving the organization as well, Nietzsche is also one of my favourites! I believe his name is pronounced “Knee-Cha” but I could be wrong! Looking forward to next week episode
Thank you on the pronunciation correction, you're right! I love that you went into philosophy! Oh, those cheeses danish's...... we couldn't wait for those and to meet girls.....that was it!
I found the entrance into philosophy very easy after leaving the organization. I think you phrased it perfectly in an older video that “your sky is a little less blue” and I feel the same way. So going into philosophy and seeing how other people look and view the world was so helpful
That is the best way I can describe it, I love that you pursued that!@@Yappy2099
Sooo many great points in this! It truly is not the same religion I grew up in (1980’s to 2000). And the assembly memories about the food 🤣🤣 Keep up the good work.
Had a Lifetime membership 51 yrs Left in JW in 2021 no body has time for deep anti type foreshadowing headaches haha today I have become your father . Just videos and everyone is happy for it elders and publishers
Easier to indoctrinate millions with the mass media tools. They simply don't teach anything anymore....drones. It's sad :(
@@survivingparadisepodcast as a society of people we’re all dumb because of the digital age JW’s made it easy to spoon feed agreed. Pressure is high for everyone can’t imagine doing this nonsense today
yep plays into their plan@@grimlokg
You lost me after cheese Danish and pretty sisters 😍
But seriously, another dumb statement from "the slave" was "if you've kept up with all your reading and studying of provided spiritual food that you have the equivalent of a college degree". Try adding that to your resume on your next job application. 😏
LOL, truth! My god, I remember them saying that too!! LOL......absurd and we bought it ugh!
In 2016 when my now wife were considering a relationship she asked me this question; Who is Gog Of Magog? I guess I answered correctly as were approaching our 7 years Anniversary!😊 She had a fetish on studying the Revelation Book! 😮
Types and Antitypes clarified in the True Worship Book!
*"Who is Gog Of Magog?"*
Really, can any relationship ever succeed without being able to answer this pivotal question? I think not. Too funny.
No...she missed the pivotal question..
"When will Armageddon come?" 😮
LOL, now THAT is a story! But some of us loved studying that crap. The Revelation Book was something that made me begin to 'look deeper'.....utterly absurd publication....and they mothballed it and have never written another one
LOL LOL @@adamantiumbullet9215
She knew neither the day or the hour.... ;) @@mattmurdock2868
Young people today, are not deep thinkers. They are taught what to think, not how to think. Not just JW's, but most in general. I can remember 30 years ago, elders that literally had the new world translation memorized in their head. They could find any passage in a matter of seconds. Kids today, don't have the discipline. Some can't read or write. And don't get me started on proper pronunciation. I cringe when I hear young people read aloud. Not just JW's, an entire generation are becoming functional illiterate. I was 40 years old when I sat in front of a computer for the first time. Up till then, I read books, thousands of them. Young people today can count on one hand the number of books they actually read. Including JW's.
Oh well, it won't matter soon. Everything on a Kindle will be electronically edited or completely deleted! And only people who have actual BOOKS will have any knowledge of anything. Everything else will be spoon-fed electronically through a screen. SAD!!!
@@cultytalk
The PC Police will control thought processes through electronic apparatus.
Books in the form of hard print / copy will then be banned and confiscated.
Have you guys ever seen the film Idiocracy- if you haven't, you really must! 🤪
@@julieellis2076 I think so... I'll have to look for it again tnx
@@cultytalk Fahrenheit 451. bring your own marshmallows.
*Jw2 When I (ray franz) pointed out that the Society’s New World Translation rendering of Acts, chapter fourteen, verse 23, evidently inserted the words “to office” in connection with the appointment of elders and that this somewhat altered the sense, he (Fred Franz) said, “Why don’t you check it in some other translations that may not be as biased.”26 I walked out of his office wondering if I had actually heard what I had heard. In future days I was to remind him of these statements on more than one occasion during Governing Body sessions.
** Crisis Of Conscience 4th ed raymond franz former member of the GB of JW**
A MUST read for all JWs.....great post!
You'll all have to watch the film 'Idiocracy' - if you haven't already. It's on cue to this. 🤪
I just wrote this down, I'm not familiar!
Spiritual food coma😅
LOL ;)
Feet of clay, Nebuchadnezzar eating grass for 7 years. Medes and Persians and swimming under water with sheep stomach air bags
Ohhhhh the WT studies on these!
When you mentioned how you would get ready for a watchtower reading like your life depended on it I remembered how I would get ready every Saturday evening with that real thick brown bible it was that big one I hope you know the one I mean, well anyway I also had that same attitude like my life depended on it,,, great podcast Stacey.
Wow. I really thought we were the smartest ppl on earth!!!! Especially when we showed ppl psalms 83:18.
Who can forget how important that verse was! LOL
It was the pseudo scholarly veneer in the early 1970s that suckered me in with all those books! Decades later I woke up 😂
You should read "The slow cancelation of the future" from the book Ghosts of my Life by Mark Fisher. It will help to further explain the "great dumbing down" of the watchtower.
the blood fractions came about due to my gandmother . she suffers from chronic ulcers on her ankles that never healed . the doctors said they have a new method that involves using parts of ones own blood to makle the medicine . it took months to run it up the ranks and they posted it in the back of an awake about 25 years ago.
Thanks for sharing. There is a BIG history behind the blood fractions, all of which was taught to create options for JWs once the transfusions had been taught as sin
I will admit at the convention many years ago that’s when I fell in love with the cheese danish.😂😂😂
No shame! We all did!! LOL
Well, I think it is almost impossible for an educated person to read any of the literature; it is sooo patronizing, simple -- uses silly examples and simple words and so on. I guess that appeals to some but is boring -- at least it doesn't put paragraphs in ALL CAPS and use a lot of exclamation points, as we see in a lot of propaganda. I might say, though, that, as an old man, that it seems to me it has always been simplistic. Pity anyone who diverges in a public talk from the provided outline.
Which is why my mother has three lonely, elderly people she studies with.. Very sad!
So true Frank. Dumbed down. If you went off script on the public talk, the elders had you as you came off the stage. There was an elder in the audience following along on the outline.......you might remember, the apostles did this to each other too.......right? LOL insane
Are you in 60 club, good old days
50's club, don't rush me!! ;)
I've never been a JW and have been constantly surprised at how simplistic their media output is, the literature is more in-depth, but not by much. The talks from the GB seem especially patronising and i sometimes wondered if there was actually a deliberation behind this, ie speaking slowly and simply is actually quite hypnotic and works even better if someone is already conditioned to slip into that frame of mind when being addressed that way.
I sometimes wonder if, at some point in the past, they realised that their content aimed at children was as effective, if not more so, than that intended for adults, so they decided it was cheaper and easier to do do the former format, with a bit of light tweaking sometimes..
YES! You've discerned correctly.....it's by design. They've all been trained that way; they've changed the Theocratic School and they're openly teaching these methods. It's chilling and embarrassing to watch them speak
@@survivingparadisepodcast I might try to emulate it when speaking to JW's at carts and see if they slip into suggestible mode..