Peter Jackson's most egregious sin in this series was killing Saruman prematurely. Who wouldn;t have loved to see Christopher Lee as Sharkey? And the Scouring of the Shire really should have been a 4th film!
Of note, Gandalf and Radagast make a point of constantly interacting with regular folk, Gandalf with people, Radagast with the creatures of the Forrest. Perhaps this helped to keep them grounded, that much power in isolation was only ever going to end one way.
Same reason why politicians live in gated communities and eat at members-only clubs. They don’t want to interact with the commoners. When you lose connection with normal people, you lose empathy for them.
I have always thought that in Tolkien’s mind the seeds of both Saruman’s and Sauron’s falls were rooted in their apprenticeships to Aulë. From him they learned the love of the creations of their own hands and the impatience that drove Aulë to create the dwarves. Their conflict with Gandalf reflects the same disharmony that lay between Aulë and Yavanna, the rivalry between nature and industry that was such a huge theme in Tolkien’s works.
Which is also stupid, without technology and industry the culture, free time and comforts that allowed T to write LotR would never have existed and he would be in "tune" with his belowed 'nature' leading the life of hunter gatherer shaking in fear during storms in a cave...
@@benhinchion9397 That's what I like about Aulë's story. He (as an allegory for innovation and industry) is not inherently evil, just impulsive and in need of oversight.
In the biblical allegory, Sauron represents Cain (and his descendants - cainites). Cain is the child of a fallen hierarchical being ("serpent") and Eve. Tubal-Cain was the one who started shaping the surface of the earth and making tools (and weapons). Genesis 4:22 while Abel sought to teach the ignorant crowd of people ("herd"), Cain "worked the soil" i.e. his own body and was the first Yogi. Genesis 3:1, describes how the serpent was "crafty" ("witchcraft").
Thanks for this commentary. I feel LOTR includes additional clues to this question in how the characters react to Saruman’s imprisonment of Gandalf. Most starkly, Gwaihir simply accepts Gandalf’s account and frees him. However, as far as the eagle actually new, Gandalf had turned evil, and Saruman had imprisoned Gandalf to neutralize that danger. Gwaihir must have already had a firm opinion of the wizards’ relative moral character to forgo even checking in downstairs and hearing Saruman’s side of the story. Later, the members of the Council of Elrond will unanimously accept Gandalf’s account (and do so without even much comment). None even consider the option that a genuine misunderstanding had arisen between their wizard friends. Maybe even more importantly, we see little emotional reaction. Aside from perhaps Gandalf and Theoden, no one mourns the loss of a relationship with Saruman or tries to contact him to seek reconciliation. Even Denethor (who might have still seen himself as at least nominally Saruman’s superior as mayor-general of Isengard) says little on the topic. Everyone seems to act as if Saruman’s treachery, while not expected, was not especially surprising either.
I would guess Galadriel pretty much already suspected, and Elrond wouldn't be that far behind her in his suspicions. What is so surprising then, is that Gandalf walked right into the trap of Orthanc without taking any serious precautions, especially given the fact he knew of the location of the Ring and that the plan was for him to guide Frodo to Rivendell in the immediate future.
I've always felt that both Saruman and Galadriel were both allegories for pride and hubris. Saruman succumbing to and Galadriel overcoming, the test of The Ring, their pride and hubris.
I never thought of them as being connected. Galadriel, to my mind, was Denethor's foil. At all events, there is a good deal more to the novel's heroine.
I always thought it was significant that Saruman and Sauron followed the same Valar before Sauron turned to Morgoth. They were in a way both enamored with 'technology ' and their own brilliance and that left them vulnerable to follow down the path to evil.
Part of what makes Gandalf so wise is that he is aware of his own flaws, he doesn't flinch in recognizing his own potential for great evil should his strength of character falter. Hence his admonishing Frodo not to offer him the ring.
Way to hell is paved with good intentions or something like that. I believe he glanced into the possibilities of the ring being destroyed but Saruman being so knowledgeable about the ring's lore second only to Sauron himself. I think he came into the dark realization that no one can willingly destroy it. I am aware that we as the audience are made fully aware of that being a ring lore master there's a possibility that he came to learn that. The outcome may have frustrated him knowing how the world will fall under Sauron's dominion. Saruman also is a practical man who believes in what he sees, he has little interest in hopeful quests or prophecies, ironically despite being one of the ainur, he knows should the full might of Mordor and it's allies unleashes, there's little that freefolk could do to stop him, in time all shall be subject to the will of the dark lord. The last alliance was the last time the freefolk were as powerful, elves have been sailing ship for Valinor since the death of their high king Gilgalad and were fading. Gondor also didn't fare better as it had no king to lead. Power of men has diminished and it's a decaying world, realistically Saruman, unlike Gandalf, had no reason to place his trust in men. So he forsake his purpose of guiding the free folk altogether for other alternatives to defeat Sauron. Saruman believes in power as well, but being in a body of an old man with his powers being so limited he realized he was no match to oppose Sauron who sided with Morgoth in his full might. His power may have diminished after the sinking of Numenor but he was still potent and powerful enough. The only way Saruman could ever defeat Sauron, is if he had his One Ring. A small object that contains majority of Sauron's power and essence. If only he could claim the mastery over it, he could defeat Sauron. So that's exactly became his plan, he started to look for the one ring to defeat Sauron. He realized that alone he couldn't achieve it so he allied himself with Sauron, in an attempt to fool him and get what informations he could get via Palantir. The outcome of this alliance only furthered his corruption. Simply put, the One Ring is absolute power and absolute power corrupts absolutely. Saruman being prideful only hastened this process. He later also tried convincing Gandalf to join him and we know the rest of the story. Saruman truly is one of my favorite characters from Tolkien's world.
Wow! Thank you so much. I have been looking for the novel's fallen hero for I can't remember how long. No need to continue trying to fit Smeagol into that role.
You make it sound like Saruman had good intentions with all this, though. That he would have totally been some benevolent ruler or something had he succeeded in destroying Sauron. And frankly, if he was so knowledgeable about the ring, he should have known he himself would not have withstood the ring and its corrupting power, and if so practical, would have known the inevitable heavy consequences when it happened. Gandalf certainly knew better.
I don't think so, honestly. The Valar were very careful and deliberate when choosing their agents, and surely knew the hearts of all five Istari. I like to think that Saruman was very much dedicated to his mission for a very long time, perhaps even more so than Gandalf and the others. His fall was long and quiet, I think, so subtle that even he barely noticed what he was becoming.
Saruman was a Maiar who followed Aulë, always a fraught thing in Tolkien's world, the most 'crafty' or most attracted to craft are always the quickest to fall... i.e. Aulë himself, Sauron, Feanor, etc...
Yes, crafting is a moral vulnerability in the Legendarium. Aulë repented when Eru confronted him about the dwarves. Aulë stayed away from direct acts of hubris after that. Unfortunately, he did fail in policy to demand humility from his disciples.
Hard to say when. He may have been frustrated with lack of efficiency of the White Council, which probably had a lot to do with him as the head. Saruman did not have a good track record of working with others largely due to his ego. Treebeard probably put it best - “He was always hasty, it was his ruin.” Love your insightful work!
Ive always thought Radagast had zero intention of returning to Valanor. I like to think Yavanna gave him another mission apart from the other 4. To care for the wild life until the end!
One of my favorite lines in the Legendarium comes from Unfinished Tales concerning Saruman: "And Curunir Lan, Saruman the White, fell from his high errand, and becoming proud and impatient, and enamored of power, sought to have his own will by force, and to oust Sauron; but he was ensnared by that dark spirit, mightier than he." That perfectly encapsulates the arc of Curunir as an Istar. Saruman sleuths his way along tracing the footprints of Sauron right into darkness. They have so much in common. I wonder if Marion and Curunir were friends in Aman and if Curunir might have taken Sauron's betrayal personally, which would explain his eagerness for the mission. Perhaps he was already curious about the 'technology' of the Rings of Power.
@@vidarfe Yes. It is a shame that Aule could never teach his students that the joy of creation is in the making and not in the possession. The Valaquenta says of Aule, "But Aule remained faithful to Eru and submitted all that he did to his will; and he did not envy the works of others, but sought and gave council." Unfortunately collaboration and generosity were two of Aule's best traits that his pupils failed to emulate. And for Saruman and Sauron both spent their spirits in pursuit of domination and exerting their will on Middle Earth and wound up powerless shades invisible and impotent for as long as Arda lasts.
I think you make a really important point that many not familiar with Tolkien's work perceive LOTRS as an existential battle of good & evil when the characters are in fact much more multifaceted. Well said 😊
He may very well have planned to once his pressing work with the Uruk Hai was finished. He didn’t count on Gandalf escaping. Saruman thought he’d have more time to deal with him
I'd completely missed the significance of the wind coming up out of the West and blowing him away; needless to say, it blew ME away when you pointed it out in another vid!
It shows how myopic Saruman actually was in that he styled himself as "Many-Colored." When it comes to light (which is often synonymous with Eru Iluvatar and goodness) white is already every color, but working in harmony. I am uncertain how familiar Tolkien was with the science behind optics and light, but it's fitting nonetheless.
Another legendary In Deep Geek! I love it how your videos hammer home the message of LOTR: There is potential for greatness in EVERYONE, and also potential for evil.
Its been touched on in the comments but perhaps Saruman's fall came from his similarity to Sauron before he fell. Unlike the other wizards Saruman seemed to try preparing for the return of Sauron by seeking to understand Sauron's mind. In doing so he became enamored with Sauron's craftsmanship and desire to bring harmony to a chaotic world. Since (in my opinion) Tolkien often connects the desire to bend the world and its laws to one's will to evil/ruin it makes sense that whatever his intentions Saruman fell to evil.
All of the Istari were likely impatient with the relative stupidity of the people of middle earth. Olorin/Gandalf had a particular background in the lessons of pity and forgiveness.
You said he was given the keys to Orthanc. Who had had possession of it before? Sounds like an interesting story. I'm so happy to see the images without the mud. Thank you.
As I recall, there had just been a famine and a war, and the populations were depleted. Gondor was happy at that point to have a wizard watching their western flank.
Every time i watch one of your video,s i wish you did a full read of lord of the rings, your story telling voice is epic .... much respect to you mr Geek
Love it. I'd also be interested to see a video explaining what the significance of the colors associated with the wizards are, Saruman becoming "of many colors" and Gandalf going from grey to white, etc.
Tolkien’s three villains represent three sorts of evil. Morgoth of elemental rebellion, nihilism, and a desire to see the world burn. Sauron of the iron fist of the tyrant, of the technocratic mind, of vicious imperialism. Saruman of arrogance, little jealousies, and a grasping nature. All though showed a contempt for anything that they couldn’t control.
I think there is no specific moment. Tolkien is showing how those whose egos drive them can start out thinking it's all for the greater good, but the compromises they make drive them ever further into the moral twilight until there is no light left. Even as he was working to destroy Rohan or imprisoning Gandalf Saruman thought he had some plan to end up with the ring where he could rule Middle Earth as it needed. He never saw himself as evil.
Amazons Rings of Power is Saruman's fanfiction he was writing before Gandalf came to him in the fellowship. He was writing it just like Ice King wrote Fiona and Cakes stories in Adventure Time.
Especially when you aren´t particularly wise to begin with. And Saruman certainly wasn´t wise. As far as we know, we have no detailed information about his character before his journey to Middle-Earth, but once he arrived there, he was already pretty salty about Gandalf. It wasn´t even about being competitive, or keeping his leadership and authority, it was just him being salty. So I consider him to be unsuitable for his job to begin with.
The odd thing about both Sauron and Saruman is they both served what most would call good aka Order, they both wanted the world to be orderly just orderly under their control, the problem is life can not survive under total order just like it can’t survive under total chaos, life needs a careful balance between the two. The same can be said for Gandalf the only difference is he understands that there needs to be a balance.
@@Welverinas mentioned in the video, the Istari weren’t exactly a team. They each went about doing their mission in their own way. Gandalf was in touch with Saruman and Radagast because they were all in and around the West. But the Blue Wizards were behind enemy lines in the East and probably were forced to lose all contact with the other wizards. Their “disappearance” doesn’t have to mean that Saruman harmed them. I definitely think there’s no way Saruman could’ve killed them. Two against one - besides, they would’ve just been sent back like Gandalf was, and then, after something as extreme as that, they would’ve exposed Saruman’s treachery.
If Saruman was responsible, the blue wizards would have had to have been unaware of his involvement. Surely when the body of a Maia is destroyed, the spirit persists and can essentially report back to Eru the means of their undoing?
@@Eagle-eye-pie Yes, if he had managed to kill their bodies, their spirits would have returned to Valinor, and warned the Valar. Who would probably have sent them back to warn the other Istari.
The Valar would have never picked Saruman if his fall was 'inevitable', 'likely' or if they thought it was 'possible'. Saruman's fall was a long building product of his choices.
Even as a Maia, he was jealous and prideful and shared a number of personality traits with Mairon. He was the worst of the Maiar to choose for the task he was given.
One of the reasons why I hold the belief that the Blue Wizards stuck to their task is because Saruman was NOT clearly turned after spending hundreds of years in the East. If they were corrupted, then Saruman would have been. That's just me, though.
When I first read LOTR over 40 years ago and for many years afterwards, I always thought that Gandalf being grey, simply meant that he was less powerful than Saruman, whereas Saruman was closer in color to the full magnificence of his true nature as a maiar. But now that Im in my 50’s and have gained a bit of wisdom that life experience frequently offers, and Ive watched good people turn bad, I’ve come to realize that Tolkien’s color metaphor is far more subtle. As the saying goes “life is never black and white”. Wisdom is always infused with shades of grey - which is the color that Gandalf was given for most of his story arc. Which is why Galadriel wanted him to lead the council. Gandalf understood the nuanced complexity of situations including himself. He fully recognized his mortal imperfections, whereas Saruman did not. Saruman may have been the most powerful wizard but he lacked the requisite personal insight that would’ve genuinely immunized him from the corruptibility of Saurons dark machinations. It wasn’t until Gandalf died fighting the Balrog that the Valar took the gloves off and sent him back in his fully radiant maiar glory. I suppose we could see his death as an example of the mythological hero’s journey, where the Balrog represents the sinful darkness of his own soul (found in the stories of both Christ battling satan and Buddha battling maya), which Gandalf successfully overcame and then returned to the world of men as a spiritually transformed being. But thats another conversation. I do think we see examples of Saruman’s descent into darkness all around us every day. Its the classic story of drug addicts who think they’re string enough to resist addiction until they’re completely hooked. And the story of the corrupt politician or business owner who fails to recognize the ethically slippery slope they’re on as they succumb to their own moral treachery. I think the famous biblical passage defines Saruman’s fundamental weakness “It is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for a rich man to enter the kingdom of God”
" Once he was as great as his fame made him. His knowledge was deep, his thought was subtle and his hands marvellously skilled; and he had a power over the minds of others. The wise he could persuade and the smaller folk he could daunt. That power he certainly still keeps. There are not many in Middle Earth that I should say would be safe, if left alone to talk with him, even now when he has suffered a great defeat. Gandalf, Elrond and Galadriel, perhaps, now that his wickedness has been laid bare, but very few others." The words of Aragorn on Saruman, from "The Two Towers".
I just want to say... I'm obsessed with LOTR lore and watch any content I can find. But yours is consistently the best I have ever seen BY FAR. You do such great work. I absolutely love the cadence of your videos, the narration, the art, editing, everything. Fantastic stuff. Thank You.
Another great video, you should do one on Sauron's rise as a Dark Lord in the Second Age, his motivations are more complex than just that he is evil. The reasons are similar to Saruman's reasons and seem to express a Theme from Tolkien's works.
I think we need to make a distinction in the differences of 'evil' between the bad characters in the legenderium. We have the evil incarnate of Morgoth, basically satan - pure evil, driven only to destroy, to ruin and twist because he hated Eru himself his goal was the destruction of all of Ardanand he tainted it with his shadow. Then we have Sauron and Saruman - who acted with very different objectives in their application of evil. Taking Sauron - a mair of Aule whose fall from grace was driven through impatience at not being able to order Middle Earth to his satisfaction quickly enough seeing too much waste he wanted to make things orderly and efficient for the benefit of all. He saw Morgoth as a way to achieve this that was in complete contrast to Morgoths goal of complete destruction- which makes you wonder was he secretly undermining Morgoth. Saurons fall to deeper depths of evil came from the constant rebellion of the free races of Middle Earth against his plans. But ways his goal was dominance and ruler of ME never destruction. Saruman seemingly was cut from the same cloth, he too believed he knew best and knew what was good for everyone. He was basically a snob, prideful and jealous with a belief in authoritarian rule and hierarchy of races - if he was in charge Middle Earth would be made perfect and this would be good for everyone, if only they knew what was good for them. I doubt Saruman saw himself as evil and doing bad - I think he believed he was doing good. Certainly Sauron started with this, but gradually sunk lower and lower - it's questionable if he thought he was helping by doing things like getting Numenor sunk, it seems he had become a tyrannical narcissist who enjoyed the suffering of others- he was a sadist. But I think this came out of thousands of years of constant rebellion against him maybe he forgot his own goals? I think those we have to look to Aule - and his failings of keeping his servants in check and balancing his ambitions for the source of Sarumans turn to evil and Sauron for that matter.
I really wish we had gotten more information on THE BLUE WIZARDS!! That's the one element that Mr Tolkien never really did come through for his readers. Their absence from the overall storyline, and the complete lack of detail as to what those two were actually doing, for all those years, almost makes me feel like it would have made no difference if they were there at all! Hell, we never even got their freaking NAMES!!!
When did Saruman turn evil? There is a clear point: the moment he began searching for the One Ring for himself. Feelings of envy and pride are certainly no good signs, but they are mere thoughts, considerations. Even the best of us may consider the wrong path for a time. The key difference lies in the decision to follow through with a bad idea or staying good.
Another FANTASTIC video Robert I feel exactly how you feel as far as Saurman never really was on Saurons side he was ALWAYS on his OWN SIDE! Love your channel thank you ❤
But isn't that always true of evil? Loyalty is good, not evil. Evil guys are always looking out for number one, that's why they can't trust each other.
Saruman's fall into darkness didn't happen overnight. Gandalf states in LotR that "not all the seeing stones (The Palantiri) are accounted for". Due to the fact that there was a Palantir in Isengard and there must have been one in Barad-dur, Saruman's fall was slow and calculated by Sauron to ensure that it wouldn't have been noticed right away.
I think it’s implied that the reason Saruman gets ensnared by Sauron is when he uses the Palantir and Sauron controls what he sees to ensure he feels that the West is lot. Sauron is too powerful to be defeated. So he only has a choice at that point - find the Ring for himself to conquer the world or join with Sauron. This does beg the tantalising question of what a Saruman ruled Middle Earth would be like. In the end not too different to Saurons i imagine but perhaps for a while more like that of a human emporer.
What I’ve never managed to figure out is why is Saruman deemed less powerful or even powerless after the events of the Two Towers. How does he lose his power? When does that exactly happen? If it’s when Gandalf returns as GTW then surely he would’ve felt his power diminish… if it’s when GTW destroys his staff, then surely he could produce a new one… after these events, it is said that Saruman still possess power with his voice, but why not the rest of his power? Thanks @indeepgeek for your amazing channel, I’ve been following it for years and am always waiting for your next video!
Great video, really explains that he wasn't really "mind controlled" as the movies (and even books) can accidentally represent to some people. I never saw him as under the true influence of Sauron when I read the books. I understand that Sauron may have had some effect on his mind, but it always seemed to me like his 2 major plans always made sense for his character motivations without the need for any mind control. One was to steal the one ring for himself so he could have most of Sauron's power, his own power, plus the enhancing effects of the ring. Second plan was to have the necessary knowledge to make his own rings of power. It always seemed to me like he wanted the ability to craft rings of power that were completely free from Sauron's influence but still fully functioned. To be honest when I went back for some extra reads, it didn't even seem like he was really invested in having a big orc army or conquering anything. If you offered him the one ring and a "making rings of power for dummies" handbook he would probably just bounce and leave everyone alone, his end goal really was just self empowerment, a goal which led him to become the weakest and most pathetic version of himself in the end.
Gandalf is really the only one of them who actually did his job, even taking down a balrog. - Radagast - hanging out with critters and smoking something… - Blue Wizards - gave up in the end and founded some cults. - Saruman - eventually tries to become the next dark lord.
I always think of one of Christopher Lee's last interviews where he believed Saruman was still good during the white council in the hobbit. He really just wanted to explore that character before he was so fallen.
It sounds like these sayings could have served as warnings to Saruman or apply to him: “Beware that, when fighting monsters, you yourself do not become a monster... for when you gaze long into the abyss. The abyss gazes also into you.” and "Be careful who you choose as your enemy because that's what you become most like." ― Friedrich W. Nietzsche
Nietzsche and the intellectuals among the Great War / WW1 veterans who saw the failures of leadership in their civilization, and then childishly abandoned the whole thing, were the real-life enemies JRRT and the Inklings spent their careers fighting.
Throughout the Hobbit and Lord of the Rings Tolkien repeatedly gives examples of how evil corrupts slowly bit by bit over long lengths of time the wills of all. Tolkien also presents that those with wisdom understand this and constantly remind themselves of this fact whenever they are tempted for expediency to use evil methods to quickly achieve a good objective.
As you say, good and evil are far too simple. Gandalf's question is much more pertinent. In a world where you know God exists, to work against Him is total madness
At the point Sauron first detected and manipulated Saruman's use of the Palantir of Orthanc. Immediately Saruman was deceived by Sauron was when he Fell. Imho
I doubt I, because the One is infused with so much of Sauron's power and essence that to try to master and claim the ring is to ultimately be subsumed by Sauron.
We are all so lucky that Christopher Lee was alive to play Saruman ... absolutely perfect casting and performance!
I agree completely
It really was/is perfect
Peter Jackson's most egregious sin in this series was killing Saruman prematurely. Who wouldn;t have loved to see Christopher Lee as Sharkey? And the Scouring of the Shire really should have been a 4th film!
Imagine if he was young enough to play Gandalf like he wanted to
What he said.
Freaking AWESOME that Lee played Saruman.
As if LOTR could have been any more awesome.
Of note, Gandalf and Radagast make a point of constantly interacting with regular folk, Gandalf with people, Radagast with the creatures of the Forrest. Perhaps this helped to keep them grounded, that much power in isolation was only ever going to end one way.
Wait, so you're basically saying that Saruman should've touched grass?
Same reason why politicians live in gated communities and eat at members-only clubs. They don’t want to interact with the commoners. When you lose connection with normal people, you lose empathy for them.
@@TheZetaKai He should've at least touched Treebeard's beard from time to time
@@TheZetaKai Does pipeweed count?
@@t_k_blitz4837It addles the brain.
You missed the opportunity to name the video "When did Saruman the Wise abandon reason for madness?"
Lol
Love you bud
You try keeping white robes clean for a thousand years and see what it does to your mood.
No wonder he just gave up and went with Many Colours.
No wonder Saruman wanted a robe of multi colors.
Heh.
@@t_k_blitz4837throwing in the towel after the ninth mustard stain
🤣🤣🤣 👍
I have always thought that in Tolkien’s mind the seeds of both Saruman’s and Sauron’s falls were rooted in their apprenticeships to Aulë. From him they learned the love of the creations of their own hands and the impatience that drove Aulë to create the dwarves. Their conflict with Gandalf reflects the same disharmony that lay between Aulë and Yavanna, the rivalry between nature and industry that was such a huge theme in Tolkien’s works.
Good point.
Which is also stupid, without technology and industry the culture, free time and comforts that allowed T to write LotR would never have existed and he would be in "tune" with his belowed 'nature' leading the life of hunter gatherer shaking in fear during storms in a cave...
@@KuK137 industry has gone too far though
@@benhinchion9397 That's what I like about Aulë's story. He (as an allegory for innovation and industry) is not inherently evil, just impulsive and in need of oversight.
In the biblical allegory, Sauron represents Cain (and his descendants - cainites).
Cain is the child of a fallen hierarchical being ("serpent") and Eve.
Tubal-Cain was the one who started shaping the surface of the earth and making tools (and weapons).
Genesis 4:22
while Abel sought to teach the ignorant crowd of people ("herd"), Cain "worked the soil" i.e. his own body and was the first Yogi.
Genesis 3:1, describes how the serpent was "crafty" ("witchcraft").
Thanks for this commentary. I feel LOTR includes additional clues to this question in how the characters react to Saruman’s imprisonment of Gandalf. Most starkly, Gwaihir simply accepts Gandalf’s account and frees him. However, as far as the eagle actually new, Gandalf had turned evil, and Saruman had imprisoned Gandalf to neutralize that danger. Gwaihir must have already had a firm opinion of the wizards’ relative moral character to forgo even checking in downstairs and hearing Saruman’s side of the story.
Later, the members of the Council of Elrond will unanimously accept Gandalf’s account (and do so without even much comment). None even consider the option that a genuine misunderstanding had arisen between their wizard friends.
Maybe even more importantly, we see little emotional reaction. Aside from perhaps Gandalf and Theoden, no one mourns the loss of a relationship with Saruman or tries to contact him to seek reconciliation. Even Denethor (who might have still seen himself as at least nominally Saruman’s superior as mayor-general of Isengard) says little on the topic. Everyone seems to act as if Saruman’s treachery, while not expected, was not especially surprising either.
Very good point!
Excellent, never had that in perspective.
Gwaihir may have been in contact with Manwë and could potentially have some special intel from him. But for the others, very good point.
@@vidarfeDid the eagles go “back and forth,” as it were?
I would guess Galadriel pretty much already suspected, and Elrond wouldn't be that far behind her in his suspicions. What is so surprising then, is that Gandalf walked right into the trap of Orthanc without taking any serious precautions, especially given the fact he knew of the location of the Ring and that the plan was for him to guide Frodo to Rivendell in the immediate future.
I've always felt that both Saruman and Galadriel were both allegories for pride and hubris. Saruman succumbing to and Galadriel overcoming, the test of The Ring, their pride and hubris.
I never thought of them as being connected. Galadriel, to my mind, was Denethor's foil. At all events, there is a good deal more to the novel's heroine.
The current series is certainly setting that up.
How is that an allegory? Isn't that just literally what happened? But yes, please explain your use of that word
@traceyedson9652 It's not a good idea to mix fanfic with canon
Allegory is the wrong word
When he smoked a bad batch of longbottom leaf.
That would send any man in to the darkness.
@@Savag3lyGandalf was fine tho, he got bad stuff from the Dwarves dozens of times
The idea of someone as powerful as Saruman becoming a villain after a bad trip is pretty funny
He was not a mellow smoker. He wanted a souped-up hot rod with big bass speakers. Maybe some Nike Shoes
Known among some as the “evil weed”
I always thought it was significant that Saruman and Sauron followed the same Valar before Sauron turned to Morgoth. They were in a way both enamored with 'technology ' and their own brilliance and that left them vulnerable to follow down the path to evil.
Part of what makes Gandalf so wise is that he is aware of his own flaws, he doesn't flinch in recognizing his own potential for great evil should his strength of character falter. Hence his admonishing Frodo not to offer him the ring.
The last time I was this early Morgoth himself had yet to begin his discordant song.
Arda marred yet?
Way to hell is paved with good intentions or something like that.
I believe he glanced into the possibilities of the ring being destroyed but Saruman being so knowledgeable about the ring's lore second only to Sauron himself. I think he came into the dark realization that no one can willingly destroy it. I am aware that we as the audience are made fully aware of that being a ring lore master there's a possibility that he came to learn that. The outcome may have frustrated him knowing how the world will fall under Sauron's dominion.
Saruman also is a practical man who believes in what he sees, he has little interest in hopeful quests or prophecies, ironically despite being one of the ainur, he knows should the full might of Mordor and it's allies unleashes, there's little that freefolk could do to stop him, in time all shall be subject to the will of the dark lord. The last alliance was the last time the freefolk were as powerful, elves have been sailing ship for Valinor since the death of their high king Gilgalad and were fading. Gondor also didn't fare better as it had no king to lead. Power of men has diminished and it's a decaying world, realistically Saruman, unlike Gandalf, had no reason to place his trust in men. So he forsake his purpose of guiding the free folk altogether for other alternatives to defeat Sauron.
Saruman believes in power as well, but being in a body of an old man with his powers being so limited he realized he was no match to oppose Sauron who sided with Morgoth in his full might. His power may have diminished after the sinking of Numenor but he was still potent and powerful enough.
The only way Saruman could ever defeat Sauron, is if he had his One Ring. A small object that contains majority of Sauron's power and essence. If only he could claim the mastery over it, he could defeat Sauron.
So that's exactly became his plan, he started to look for the one ring to defeat Sauron.
He realized that alone he couldn't achieve it so he allied himself with Sauron, in an attempt to fool him and get what informations he could get via Palantir. The outcome of this alliance only furthered his corruption. Simply put, the One Ring is absolute power and absolute power corrupts absolutely. Saruman being prideful only hastened this process.
He later also tried convincing Gandalf to join him and we know the rest of the story.
Saruman truly is one of my favorite characters from Tolkien's world.
Wow! Thank you so much. I have been looking for the novel's fallen hero for I can't remember how long. No need to continue trying to fit Smeagol into that role.
This makes his fall all the more sad.
I've never thought of it like that, but you make a lot of sense.
You make it sound like Saruman had good intentions with all this, though. That he would have totally been some benevolent ruler or something had he succeeded in destroying Sauron. And frankly, if he was so knowledgeable about the ring, he should have known he himself would not have withstood the ring and its corrupting power, and if so practical, would have known the inevitable heavy consequences when it happened. Gandalf certainly knew better.
To my mind, Saruman's fall began even before he left Valinor with his reaction to Gandalf and Radagast being added as Istari.
Yeah it seems like that he was always bound to head down that kind of path from the beginning. The only question was how long it would take.
I don't think so, honestly. The Valar were very careful and deliberate when choosing their agents, and surely knew the hearts of all five Istari. I like to think that Saruman was very much dedicated to his mission for a very long time, perhaps even more so than Gandalf and the others. His fall was long and quiet, I think, so subtle that even he barely noticed what he was becoming.
As soon as he came to Isengard it is clear that he was a traitor since he told nothing about the palantir to the wise.
Saruman was a Maiar who followed Aulë, always a fraught thing in Tolkien's world, the most 'crafty' or most attracted to craft are always the quickest to fall... i.e. Aulë himself, Sauron, Feanor, etc...
Yes, crafting is a moral vulnerability in the Legendarium. Aulë repented when Eru confronted him about the dwarves. Aulë stayed away from direct acts of hubris after that. Unfortunately, he did fail in policy to demand humility from his disciples.
5:30 Saruman begins looking into dark things. Such as armadillos.
Never turn your back on an armadillo...even badly drawn ones.
Hard to say when. He may have been frustrated with lack of efficiency of the White Council, which probably had a lot to do with him as the head. Saruman did not have a good track record of working with others largely due to his ego. Treebeard probably put it best - “He was always hasty, it was his ruin.” Love your insightful work!
I love a good nature being done right. Blessed be Tolkien, the grandfather of fantasy.
Heresy! No bad batch of Longbottom leaf was ever exported. Sealed in a barrel with trademark Hornblower marks means perfection!
They had smokers to burn a few bowls to proof the batch..
@@jima4101 pipe "weed" is just tobacco, not cannabis in tolkeins world . Tolkein loved his pipe so it fit great in the story as well.
Ive always thought Radagast had zero intention of returning to Valanor. I like to think Yavanna gave him another mission apart from the other 4. To care for the wild life until the end!
I love that!
I agree
If you haven't watched it already, this channel has a video about Radagast. Worth watching.
But radagast notably failed his mission so his mission couldn't be care for the wildlife
@@peterruf1462 in what way did he fail and how do we know?
It was when Qui-gon died.... wait wrong Christopher Lee!
Lee must have been wondering why his characters always did heel turns. 😂
@@mitwhitgaming7722 Lee was probably saying, "Guys, I know I play a lot of villains, but I was a war hero for Christ's sakes, doesn't that matter??" 😂
Twice the proud double the fall
there is no wrong Christopher Lee!
I wish Qui Gon was here. He'd never stand for a Sauron in control of the senate!
Whoa, whoa, whoa. What was that armadillo in the Palantir? Tom Barmadillo?
Sauruman appears to be wondering the same thing.
"Freaking palantir. I'll try rebooting."
- Saruman
One of my favorite lines in the Legendarium comes from Unfinished Tales concerning Saruman: "And Curunir Lan, Saruman the White, fell from his high errand, and becoming proud and impatient, and enamored of power, sought to have his own will by force, and to oust Sauron; but he was ensnared by that dark spirit, mightier than he."
That perfectly encapsulates the arc of Curunir as an Istar. Saruman sleuths his way along tracing the footprints of Sauron right into darkness. They have so much in common. I wonder if Marion and Curunir were friends in Aman and if Curunir might have taken Sauron's betrayal personally, which would explain his eagerness for the mission. Perhaps he was already curious about the 'technology' of the Rings of Power.
Didn't both Saruman and Sauron work for Aulë back in the day?
@@vidarfe Yep, both were Maia of Aule.
@@vidarfe Yes. It is a shame that Aule could never teach his students that the joy of creation is in the making and not in the possession. The Valaquenta says of Aule, "But Aule remained faithful to Eru and submitted all that he did to his will; and he did not envy the works of others, but sought and gave council."
Unfortunately collaboration and generosity were two of Aule's best traits that his pupils failed to emulate. And for Saruman and Sauron both spent their spirits in pursuit of domination and exerting their will on Middle Earth and wound up powerless shades invisible and impotent for as long as Arda lasts.
@@beatleblev this and the last quote you drop here are both really awesome
@@180dagger Thanks! Cheers!
I think you make a really important point that many not familiar with Tolkien's work perceive LOTRS as an existential battle of good & evil when the characters are in fact much more multifaceted. Well said 😊
Video idea: Why didn't Saruman take Narya from Gandalf when he imprisoned him in Orthanc (Or Glamdring for that matter)?
I asked this comment and someone said that Gandalf could make it invisible to Saruman if he wanted
@@gptsiteuser I doubt he could make it invisible to a fellow-Maia.
He may very well have planned to once his pressing work with the Uruk Hai was finished. He didn’t count on Gandalf escaping. Saruman thought he’d have more time to deal with him
"A wizard did it."
Because when LotR was written, only the ring-bearers and Cirdan knew who the other were. The part about Saruman knowing it was added in later works
Her : i'm sure he is thinking about another woman.
Me : When did Saruman turn evil?
I laughed out loud😂
So you were, indeed, thinking about another MAN!!!! lol
Me: What powers did Saruman's ring have??
😂😂😂
@@jacob4920 well saruman is not a mortal, and could live in a female body if he wanted to.
Me : are Maiar gender-fluid ?
I'd completely missed the significance of the wind coming up out of the West and blowing him away; needless to say, it blew ME away when you pointed it out in another vid!
Easily my favorite TH-cam channel these days. Such an easy, informative listen! Thank you!
Best Tolkien TH-camr!
It shows how myopic Saruman actually was in that he styled himself as "Many-Colored." When it comes to light (which is often synonymous with Eru Iluvatar and goodness) white is already every color, but working in harmony. I am uncertain how familiar Tolkien was with the science behind optics and light, but it's fitting nonetheless.
Another great video, thanks! Consider doing one on why Galadriel who could read minds didn't suspect Saruman's betrayal.
"Was Saruman fallen by this point?
"Well, it seems that he was certainly at least fall-*ing*"
I love the pronunciation here.
Tolkien wrote in one of his letters "Nothing is evil in the beginning."
The heir of Morgoth would play on any weakness, Saruman’s was pride.
If comments are an indication of how good your video is then this video is absolute gold!
Another legendary In Deep Geek! I love it how your videos hammer home the message of LOTR: There is potential for greatness in EVERYONE, and also potential for evil.
He also did not think Sauron could be beaten. His lack of faithfulness more than jealousy was his downfall.
“You know of what I speak… a Great Eye… WREATHED in flame!” 🔥 😂😂
Its been touched on in the comments but perhaps Saruman's fall came from his similarity to Sauron before he fell.
Unlike the other wizards Saruman seemed to try preparing for the return of Sauron by seeking to understand Sauron's mind. In doing so he became enamored with Sauron's craftsmanship and desire to bring harmony to a chaotic world. Since (in my opinion) Tolkien often connects the desire to bend the world and its laws to one's will to evil/ruin it makes sense that whatever his intentions Saruman fell to evil.
All of the Istari were likely impatient with the relative stupidity of the people of middle earth.
Olorin/Gandalf had a particular background in the lessons of pity and forgiveness.
He didn't like Bakshi calling him Aruman, that's for sure.
You said he was given the keys to Orthanc. Who had had possession of it before? Sounds like an interesting story. I'm so happy to see the images without the mud. Thank you.
It was a fortress of Gondor
As I recall, there had just been a famine and a war, and the populations were depleted. Gondor was happy at that point to have a wizard watching their western flank.
Another great video and essay. Saruman has always been one of the charters I felt I least understood. This was super interesting and helpful.
Probably when he saw the future where he doesn't even make it to the theatrical release of Return of the King.
Happy birthday to Frodo and Bilbo!! 🎉
Every time i watch one of your video,s i wish you did a full read of lord of the rings, your story telling voice is epic .... much respect to you mr Geek
Love it. I'd also be interested to see a video explaining what the significance of the colors associated with the wizards are, Saruman becoming "of many colors" and Gandalf going from grey to white, etc.
"Saruman was a bit put out." Well that has a nice understated ring to it (ring... haha).
Love that they all kind of just F’d off, especially the Blue Wizards. Showed up and decided they’d rather not
The Blue Wizards are like the guys on a big job that were there the first day and then you never see them again. Like mafia "no show" employees. 😂
When he got Twitter he turned evil.
😅😅😅
That’s when he became Saruman of many colors
Tolkien’s three villains represent three sorts of evil.
Morgoth of elemental rebellion, nihilism, and a desire to see the world burn.
Sauron of the iron fist of the tyrant, of the technocratic mind, of vicious imperialism.
Saruman of arrogance, little jealousies, and a grasping nature.
All though showed a contempt for anything that they couldn’t control.
Armadillos aren’t dark things! They are adorable!!!
I think there is no specific moment. Tolkien is showing how those whose egos drive them can start out thinking it's all for the greater good, but the compromises they make drive them ever further into the moral twilight until there is no light left.
Even as he was working to destroy Rohan or imprisoning Gandalf Saruman thought he had some plan to end up with the ring where he could rule Middle Earth as it needed. He never saw himself as evil.
Amazons Rings of Power is Saruman's fanfiction he was writing before Gandalf came to him in the fellowship. He was writing it just like Ice King wrote Fiona and Cakes stories in Adventure Time.
When you stare into the abyss the abyss also stares into you…
Especially when you aren´t particularly wise to begin with. And Saruman certainly wasn´t wise. As far as we know, we have no detailed information about his character before his journey to Middle-Earth, but once he arrived there, he was already pretty salty about Gandalf. It wasn´t even about being competitive, or keeping his leadership and authority, it was just him being salty. So I consider him to be unsuitable for his job to begin with.
The odd thing about both Sauron and Saruman is they both served what most would call good aka Order, they both wanted the world to be orderly just orderly under their control, the problem is life can not survive under total order just like it can’t survive under total chaos, life needs a careful balance between the two.
The same can be said for Gandalf the only difference is he understands that there needs to be a balance.
And that was the difference between them and Morgoth, who ultimately only wanted the destruction of everything.
I’ve long wondered if Saruman was responsible for the disappearance of the blue wizards.
That’s not likely. If he was, then his treachery would’ve been detected much earlier.
@@12classics39 Considering how little interaction there seems to have been with the East, I'm not so sure about that.
@@Welverinas mentioned in the video, the Istari weren’t exactly a team. They each went about doing their mission in their own way. Gandalf was in touch with Saruman and Radagast because they were all in and around the West. But the Blue Wizards were behind enemy lines in the East and probably were forced to lose all contact with the other wizards. Their “disappearance” doesn’t have to mean that Saruman harmed them.
I definitely think there’s no way Saruman could’ve killed them. Two against one - besides, they would’ve just been sent back like Gandalf was, and then, after something as extreme as that, they would’ve exposed Saruman’s treachery.
If Saruman was responsible, the blue wizards would have had to have been unaware of his involvement. Surely when the body of a Maia is destroyed, the spirit persists and can essentially report back to Eru the means of their undoing?
@@Eagle-eye-pie Yes, if he had managed to kill their bodies, their spirits would have returned to Valinor, and warned the Valar. Who would probably have sent them back to warn the other Istari.
The Valar would have never picked Saruman if his fall was 'inevitable', 'likely' or if they thought it was 'possible'. Saruman's fall was a long building product of his choices.
I like how exactly when it’s said that Saruman was exploring “dark things,” that there’s what looks like a baby armadillo in the Palantír. 😂
Even as a Maia, he was jealous and prideful and shared a number of personality traits with Mairon. He was the worst of the Maiar to choose for the task he was given.
The Valar were consistently incompetent
Excellent video and great writing! I always look forward to your videos.
It's a great feeling... getting off work kn a Friday and seeing IDG video
One of the reasons why I hold the belief that the Blue Wizards stuck to their task is because Saruman was NOT clearly turned after spending hundreds of years in the East. If they were corrupted, then Saruman would have been.
That's just me, though.
When I first read LOTR over 40 years ago and for many years afterwards, I always thought that Gandalf being grey, simply meant that he was less powerful than Saruman, whereas Saruman was closer in color to the full magnificence of his true nature as a maiar. But now that Im in my 50’s and have gained a bit of wisdom that life experience frequently offers, and Ive watched good people turn bad, I’ve come to realize that Tolkien’s color metaphor is far more subtle. As the saying goes “life is never black and white”. Wisdom is always infused with shades of grey - which is the color that Gandalf was given for most of his story arc. Which is why Galadriel wanted him to lead the council. Gandalf understood the nuanced complexity of situations including himself. He fully recognized his mortal imperfections, whereas Saruman did not. Saruman may have been the most powerful wizard but he lacked the requisite personal insight that would’ve genuinely immunized him from the corruptibility of Saurons dark machinations. It wasn’t until Gandalf died fighting the Balrog that the Valar took the gloves off and sent him back in his fully radiant maiar glory. I suppose we could see his death as an example of the mythological hero’s journey, where the Balrog represents the sinful darkness of his own soul (found in the stories of both Christ battling satan and Buddha battling maya), which Gandalf successfully overcame and then returned to the world of men as a spiritually transformed being. But thats another conversation.
I do think we see examples of Saruman’s descent into darkness all around us every day. Its the classic story of drug addicts who think they’re string enough to resist addiction until they’re completely hooked. And the story of the corrupt politician or business owner who fails to recognize the ethically slippery slope they’re on as they succumb to their own moral treachery.
I think the famous biblical passage defines Saruman’s fundamental weakness “It is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for a rich man to enter the kingdom of God”
I've been waiting for this one. Thanks Robert!
Can you imagine being the spirit of Curomo reincarnating in Valinor, a bunch of Valar standing around "you've got some explaining to do"!
According to the book he didn't even get that. It says a spirit rose up from his dead body, looked west and was then blown away by the wind.
The only thing Valar did right is helping Saruman avoid being shamed like a kindergartener by denying him return.
" Once he was as great as his fame made him. His knowledge was deep, his thought was subtle and his hands marvellously skilled; and he had a power over the minds of others. The wise he could persuade and the smaller folk he could daunt. That power he certainly still keeps. There are not many in Middle Earth that I should say would be safe, if left alone to talk with him, even now when he has suffered a great defeat. Gandalf, Elrond and Galadriel, perhaps, now that his wickedness has been laid bare, but very few others." The words of Aragorn on Saruman, from "The Two Towers".
A thorough piece; whose conclusion is applicable to the world around us 🔮 Thanks
I just want to say... I'm obsessed with LOTR lore and watch any content I can find. But yours is consistently the best I have ever seen BY FAR. You do such great work. I absolutely love the cadence of your videos, the narration, the art, editing, everything. Fantastic stuff. Thank You.
I literally wondered this about 20 minutes ago and wondered if you had made a video on this. wow haha
He did make a video. This is just an unnecessary reupload
Didn't Tolkien changed his opinion about blue wizards later and said that they were working agains sauron on the east?
Superb quality and a very good voice for telling lore
He was corrupted by Darth Plagueis.
Another great video, you should do one on Sauron's rise as a Dark Lord in the Second Age, his motivations are more complex than just that he is evil. The reasons are similar to Saruman's reasons and seem to express a Theme from Tolkien's works.
The story of good vs evil is maybe not so straightforward as good and evil characters, but also the good and the evil within each one.
I think we need to make a distinction in the differences of 'evil' between the bad characters in the legenderium. We have the evil incarnate of Morgoth, basically satan - pure evil, driven only to destroy, to ruin and twist because he hated Eru himself his goal was the destruction of all of Ardanand he tainted it with his shadow. Then we have Sauron and Saruman - who acted with very different objectives in their application of evil.
Taking Sauron - a mair of Aule whose fall from grace was driven through impatience at not being able to order Middle Earth to his satisfaction quickly enough seeing too much waste he wanted to make things orderly and efficient for the benefit of all. He saw Morgoth as a way to achieve this that was in complete contrast to Morgoths goal of complete destruction- which makes you wonder was he secretly undermining Morgoth. Saurons fall to deeper depths of evil came from the constant rebellion of the free races of Middle Earth against his plans. But ways his goal was dominance and ruler of ME never destruction.
Saruman seemingly was cut from the same cloth, he too believed he knew best and knew what was good for everyone. He was basically a snob, prideful and jealous with a belief in authoritarian rule and hierarchy of races - if he was in charge Middle Earth would be made perfect and this would be good for everyone, if only they knew what was good for them.
I doubt Saruman saw himself as evil and doing bad - I think he believed he was doing good. Certainly Sauron started with this, but gradually sunk lower and lower - it's questionable if he thought he was helping by doing things like getting Numenor sunk, it seems he had become a tyrannical narcissist who enjoyed the suffering of others- he was a sadist. But I think this came out of thousands of years of constant rebellion against him maybe he forgot his own goals?
I think those we have to look to Aule - and his failings of keeping his servants in check and balancing his ambitions for the source of Sarumans turn to evil and Sauron for that matter.
I really wish we had gotten more information on THE BLUE WIZARDS!! That's the one element that Mr Tolkien never really did come through for his readers. Their absence from the overall storyline, and the complete lack of detail as to what those two were actually doing, for all those years, almost makes me feel like it would have made no difference if they were there at all! Hell, we never even got their freaking NAMES!!!
Thank you Robert. Cracking analysis.
When did Saruman turn evil?
There is a clear point: the moment he began searching for the One Ring for himself.
Feelings of envy and pride are certainly no good signs, but they are mere thoughts, considerations. Even the best of us may consider the wrong path for a time. The key difference lies in the decision to follow through with a bad idea or staying good.
Another FANTASTIC video Robert I feel exactly how you feel as far as Saurman never really was on Saurons side he was ALWAYS on his OWN SIDE! Love your channel thank you ❤
But isn't that always true of evil? Loyalty is good, not evil. Evil guys are always looking out for number one, that's why they can't trust each other.
Saruman's fall into darkness didn't happen overnight. Gandalf states in LotR that "not all the seeing stones (The Palantiri) are accounted for". Due to the fact that there was a Palantir in Isengard and there must have been one in Barad-dur, Saruman's fall was slow and calculated by Sauron to ensure that it wouldn't have been noticed right away.
“Hmmm. I’ve named my evil lord, Sauron, but what shall I name his right-hand man?”
*draws on pipe*
“By jove, I think I’ve got it.”
Sauronman!
As a kid when I watched LOTR I kept mixing the two and was super confused why people kept fighting after killing Saruman.
I think it’s implied that the reason Saruman gets ensnared by Sauron is when he uses the Palantir and Sauron controls what he sees to ensure he feels that the West is lot. Sauron is too powerful to be defeated. So he only has a choice at that point - find the Ring for himself to conquer the world or join with Sauron.
This does beg the tantalising question of what a Saruman ruled Middle Earth would be like. In the end not too different to Saurons i imagine but perhaps for a while more like that of a human emporer.
What I’ve never managed to figure out is why is Saruman deemed less powerful or even powerless after the events of the Two Towers. How does he lose his power? When does that exactly happen? If it’s when Gandalf returns as GTW then surely he would’ve felt his power diminish… if it’s when GTW destroys his staff, then surely he could produce a new one… after these events, it is said that Saruman still possess power with his voice, but why not the rest of his power?
Thanks @indeepgeek for your amazing channel, I’ve been following it for years and am always waiting for your next video!
When he choose being alone rathen than being with friends. He was happy being alone.
When Sauron caught him by the Palantiri. And no, that's not a euphemism. I think.
Hello Robert, this is Robert and I'm a geek in deep.
Great video, really explains that he wasn't really "mind controlled" as the movies (and even books) can accidentally represent to some people. I never saw him as under the true influence of Sauron when I read the books. I understand that Sauron may have had some effect on his mind, but it always seemed to me like his 2 major plans always made sense for his character motivations without the need for any mind control.
One was to steal the one ring for himself so he could have most of Sauron's power, his own power, plus the enhancing effects of the ring.
Second plan was to have the necessary knowledge to make his own rings of power. It always seemed to me like he wanted the ability to craft rings of power that were completely free from Sauron's influence but still fully functioned.
To be honest when I went back for some extra reads, it didn't even seem like he was really invested in having a big orc army or conquering anything. If you offered him the one ring and a "making rings of power for dummies" handbook he would probably just bounce and leave everyone alone, his end goal really was just self empowerment, a goal which led him to become the weakest and most pathetic version of himself in the end.
Gandalf is really the only one of them who actually did his job, even taking down a balrog.
- Radagast - hanging out with critters and smoking something…
- Blue Wizards - gave up in the end and founded some cults.
- Saruman - eventually tries to become the next dark lord.
I always think of one of Christopher Lee's last interviews where he believed Saruman was still good during the white council in the hobbit. He really just wanted to explore that character before he was so fallen.
It sounds like these sayings could have served as warnings to Saruman or apply to him:
“Beware that, when fighting monsters, you yourself do not become a monster... for when you gaze long into the abyss. The abyss gazes also into you.”
and
"Be careful who you choose as your enemy because that's what you become most like."
― Friedrich W. Nietzsche
Nietzsche and the intellectuals among the Great War / WW1 veterans who saw the failures of leadership in their civilization, and then childishly abandoned the whole thing, were the real-life enemies JRRT and the Inklings spent their careers fighting.
Throughout the Hobbit and Lord of the Rings Tolkien repeatedly gives examples of how evil corrupts slowly bit by bit over long lengths of time the wills of all. Tolkien also presents that those with wisdom understand this and constantly remind themselves of this fact whenever they are tempted for expediency to use evil methods to quickly achieve a good objective.
Great video as always Robert, thank you.
As you say, good and evil are far too simple. Gandalf's question is much more pertinent. In a world where you know God exists, to work against Him is total madness
Didn't stop Satan...
5:32 dark things looks like cat meme's on a crystal ball
At the point Sauron first detected and manipulated Saruman's use of the Palantir of Orthanc. Immediately Saruman was deceived by Sauron was when he Fell. Imho
this might be one of the best! 2nd to Bill of course...still crying
Bill the pony is so nuanced💕
This was great! Thanks! :) 👍
I think Christopher Lee being told by Tolkien that he should play Gandalf, to then be cast as Saruman is a funny parallel
“Wait, he was always bad?”
“Always has been”
Video idea: Can anyone other than Sauron truly master the One ring?
I doubt I, because the One is infused with so much of Sauron's power and essence that to try to master and claim the ring is to ultimately be subsumed by Sauron.
Great vid!
The dangerous study of armadillos. 😂