Read the "New Rules For Negotiating In 2024+" article in my newsletter: www.toptechnewsletter.com/p/the-new-rules-of-negotiating-your Interested in negotiation coaching? Find time for an intro call: feelvalued.co
It is one of the best resources for tech salary negotiations out there. Your grounded and thought-through insights have helped me see things more clearly. Thanks a lot, Colin!
Some would say the intro is bragging, but I do try to just give the best advice I have at the moment and hope it helps without putting anyone in a tough spot. There's a newer article we wrote about how to negotiate in this tough market on my newsletter.
For someone who has had very little exposure with negotiating salaries, this was an eye-opening video for me. This is one of those things they do not teach you in any CS program.
This guy knows how it works. Ive worked at Google, Microsoft and other corps. I've learned this too late but such knowledge helped me to get decent increases between jobs.
@@ColinLate I think adding a context that in eu those comps are lower than in US. People need to be aware of that. I'm based in EU and got to the ceiling.
I'm unintentionally fantastic at interviewing and not so bad at salary negotiations. This video is full of fabulous advice for anyone trying improve their skills.
It's a tough market out there, so I feel you. I hope this comes in handy, though! There's a newer article we wrote about how to negotiate in this tough market on my newsletter.
Some things to consider: 1) Tech job market state is not so great 2) There are performance reviews and mid-reviews, and people with higher level would get worse grades for same work. 3) Some companies will mark a checkbox in your profile like 'inflated_salary_expectations'
Love this comment! 1) True, but we still see successful negotiations all the time with our coaching services. Just not as high. 2) This is a smart thing to consider. You do want to make sure you will succeed no matter the level. I find it’s more admit the culture or role fit than the level fit performance reviews, but you do get more leeway in more junior roles. 3) You only negotiate at the end and you have to gauge all the relationships and signals I discuss.
2) In my expirience "succeding" in big tech is mostly not controlled by you. For example: a) You need to find the great project (tasks), and these are always scarce b) Then implement them with compliance to everchanging company metrics with "business impact" and "technical exellence" c) Then you will be reviewed against your teammates behind the closed doors (and there is usually grade quoutas) 3) Yes. But companies keep and update profiles about employees even after hiring
Man, this video brings up so many strange emotions within me as a 28 yr old who just quit my job, looking to change industries completely starting at the bottom of the IT world, never made more than $60k a year, but also made more than my parents ever have. Just seeing these numbers thrown around feels so weird. It's aspirational/exciting/daunting/demoralizing/interesting all together. It's a great video all around. I hope one day it will be helpful for me
Don’t worry about the huge numbers. Honestly I’d be fine making a small fraction of this after making 40k early in my career. Just make sure you’re in the best boat you can get into to when you start to row. That matters as much as how hard you row
Welp... watching this was the most productive 45 min of my life! Your advice that our stretch goal "may not even be high enough" was spot on. I actually exceeded my stretch early by keeping my mouth shut, and being respectful (but slightly apprehensive) whenever they put out a number. That made my counter easy too because I could ask for a smaller (5-10%) increase and show sincere gratitude to get it. Felt very win-win. I do feel like this advice is more geared toward senior/staff and higher roles, and is sorta predicated on nailing the interview.
A video about how to interpret recruiters words/messages would also be very helpful to tag on to this video. When they say this…..it means or could mean this.
@@ColinLate Example: Talent emails me right after 4 final interviews and wants to schedule a meeting for follow up. They want to “see how I felt they went and chat.” Any insight on this vague message? Overall slides on if they say this…..it could mean 1, 2, or 3. Similar to your slides on prep for negotiation. You are making the best videos on this overall process/subject. Big thanks! 🙏
I’m glad you found it valuable! I’ve got a new article on the topic if you want more: www.toptechnewsletter.com/p/the-new-rules-of-negotiating-your?r=f1aru&
@@Omkar3324no he’s not saying six figures is low. He’s referring low six figures to probably under 250,000 and mid six figures to roughly 500,000. It’s a rough way of approximating how much money tech companies in the US may pay.
Really good talk, surprised the algorithm hasn’t blessed it even more. Some of the content is more geared towards later in a career, but definitely walked away with some nuggets of info applicable at all stages Nice presentation style, too
Thanks for making this Colin. I’ve been a military pilot for 15 years and going into the last round interview for my first civilian job. Whilst there are differences between our industries, you’ve given me some tactics and food for thought. Thanks. (Too bad aviation compensation is nowhere near tech…)
I watched this video out of curiosity more than need. Personally I'm highly confident in my interviewing for my niche field and I did well the last time I moved positions even though I made mistakes. This is an easy video I'll flag and share with others instead of trying to coach them how to succeed in interviews. I liked the way you laid out your approach and the pieces at play. Something a lot of people I've talked to struggle with likeability and helping them understand how to politely guide the conversation in terms of salary expectations or starting a negotiation once an offer is provided.
Lots of raving comments here. And I agree the advice in generally sound. But the most important graphic was the 1st one he showed of how many times he has climbed. It will take many iterations of attempting negotiations to get good at it. Dodging # questions is easier said than done and discovery requires experience and skill. That being said. You should absolutely make an attempt!
Yes. You get better each time. Ask mentors. And we run a negotiation coaching service for this reason. Scripts, mocks, objection handling, etc. It is hard to do it all perfectly the first time
I knew the common advice to give the first number to appear confident is bs! That's some real value here, even though im more interested in working for medium sized companies. Going to shoot for a 50% salary increase by end of year with these techniques.
This is so important. Well presented. I've walked away from a number of offers because I did my own equity analysis, and found that the valuations were extremely stretched, to the point they'd be lucky to grow into it (from being valued during a bubble). Everyone should understand how to value a company, and understand that private equity exits should also add to your risk premium (it's highly illiquid, generally trades below fair value, and comes with high transaction fees)
@@ColinLate oh I really do apologize, i meant. Better than the common regurgitated youtube crap you see from other channels. Thx again. Subbed on YT and to jr newsletter
It's pretty annoying when outside folks trivialize the technical interview and say things like "simply crush the technical interview and then you can negotiate". Dude, Meta is currently asking 3 medium Leetcode questions in 45 minutes. That's 1 medium every 15 minutes and you have to be perfect 3 times in arow. Congrats, my guy.. you can help the top 0.01% engineers negotiate a better salary.
Fair. It’s tough. We help folks negotiate all the time. You can still negotiate if you pass the interviews without being a top performer. It just limits your upside depending how you do on the other factors like unique skillset for the role and external leverage. At TikTok, they tier their negotiation strategy based on interview performance but we just got someone an $85k increase despite not being a top interview performer. It just helps a heck of a lot.
Do you have some hints for someone outside USA to get an interview in for example facebook? I have over 8 years of experience in java, but I think that people inside USA get easier a chance.
The point about skip prep is a good one that a lot of videos on this topic don't cover. In some cases making a small concession on salary can be worth it for a role that can get you where you need to be later.
Wish i saw this video earlier. Uk financial manager and set my salary against the other execs, however i bring so much more value to the table. Employers have a procedural scarcity mindset and focus on percent increase being too high rather than value trade off. Got 55k.
Yeah. It is like that. Different companies and industries…and even managers view things differently. You can do a lot with these strategies, but the company’s compensation philosophy can limit you unless you’re absolutely top talent.
A junior company wanted me. I kept saying no for over half a year. I’m much older, but you could say, an outlier. My job is in part to provide broad technical experience, mentoring. My role is I’m the “dreamer”. To grow the company with new lines of products, mergers and acquisitions. My salary is low, covers my expenses and my chosen title is very modest, mid level tech lead. They want to keep me, motivate me. So the bonus is 4% of gross margin from sales. Not my sales, but all sales from all divisions and subsidiaries. Gross margin is 60%. Products are half a million to several million each. I’m growing the company by multiples (not percentage) each year. BTW, that “bonus” is every year. Do the math…
Great information. But I will say this. It seems the majority of what is described here is predominantly meant for specific Sr. level roles, or Fortune type orgs where a person would actually have such a huge window of salary/ options to negotiate to begin with. Assuming that's not where one is then there is either: NO negotiation via the company, OR a very small window to work in.
Yes, what he is saying I think only applies to Senior roles at high growth start up / scale ups and large tech firms. Not just that but it only applies to technologists and perhaps sales and marketing. Finance, compliance, operations, risk management, audit and any other orgs not perceived as revenue generating or cost reducing have little to no leverage and would like lose the opportunity following this playbook. But seems like fantastic advice to those in which it applies.
It also applies to more junior people at the larger tech companies IF you do really well in the review and have other offers. It also applies to smaller software companies (not all of them) and consultancies. However, the extent to which it applies in those cases is less than a senior startup/tech company role. You don’t have as high limits but you can be sure they will all try to lowball you if they can. They usually get away with it because so many people don’t know they have some power or they aren’t confident enough to apply it. (Speaking only in relation to software industry. I’m not familiar with others but I’m sure they’re similar in a lot of cases.) If you are a junior, don’t feel like you’re missing out. If you have this knowledge already, as your career progresses you’ll be in a much better position to make the most of it. I wish I knew more about this when I was a junior. I got screwed pretty bad a couple of times due to naivety.
@@0xKaine That's a good take. Made me think about the positions/ business units I've been part of previously and whether they would be considered as a heavier lifter under the umbrella of 'revenue generating' departments....
Hey Colin, great video I highly appreciate the clear and concise delivery, no gimmicks just facts, strategy and expertise. My question is, is it a good idea it to make a presentation that justifies why you deserve a raise. Something like a 15 minute slide deck? This could include projects you’ve excelled on, things you did that have high value, the likelihood function you were talking about and so on. Thanks hope to hear back!
Hey - This will really depend on a lot of factors. I don't know your function or workplace culture, but I rarely think a presentation is the right way to go. For both new offer negotiations and raises, I usually recommend a 30/60/90 day draft plan that you go over collaboratively with your Hiring Manager as well as collecting a brag book. Consider promotions and raises a multi-month process where you work together with your manager to set expectations, track progress, get feedback to grow, and then it shouldn't be a surprise whether you're getting a raise or promotion in the end. Presentations are too one-directional.
Thanks for the vid! Lots of good insights. I find it awkward to ask to meet with the HM or even 2nd level to pitch my value/impact just to ask them for more money. Can an email suffice? Better yet, can I just write up those points to the recruiter to take to the HM or are recruiters not trustable?
As everyone else has said, this is liquid gold! This is mostly geared towards those with some work experience. Do you have any wisdom for those who are currently students looking for internships or graduate roles in the future? Do you think it is even possible to negotiate compensation for graduate positions in the current market?
It is but it’s tough. I don’t know your specific situation so it’s very hard to give general advice, but if you do it, don’t take too much risk, do it in person kindly, and make sure you are okay with the consequences of a bad actor on the other side. I have definitely seen even in this market and even in Europe new grads negotiating successfully with big tech. It’s just tougher and your career is long anyway.
These are solid insights. Super actionable. A thought, would you avoid sharing existing/projected levelling in recruiter interviews as it exposes current salary range/caps their budget flexibility early on, or could it be used as a subtle nudge? Most people would know the levelling through insiders and comparable salary via the US market
It’s harder, depends on the company, but I’ve seen it happen! A great return offer where they love you or multiple competing offers can get you an increase occasionally. Don’t be surprised if it doesn’t since especially big tech cos can have stricter policies for new grad negotiations.
This is such a helpful video. I wish I had seen this before getting my job with Amazon or moving on to a different company. Question - Does this work when you get a promotion within the same company? Do you ever negotiate with your annual reviews or just take the compensation that you are offered.
You do a different process. Some of the same principles apply. Start keeping a brag book, work with your manager up to a year before the promotion cycle to keep aligning with them monthly and do 30-60-90 day plan reviews with them when it comes up to a cycle to let them know you’re ready for the promo. One day I’ll do a video on this but check out a life engineered on TH-cam in the meantime
Do you have any recommendations for negotiating after receiving a return offer after an internship? I've talked to fellow interns who also received offers, and we're all getting the same salary, bonus, sign on, etc. , however I will be starting with a master's when I graduate, while a majority of the interns will only have a bachelor's degree. I've already received the paperwork to actually get hired, so curious on your thoughts on if it's still possible to negotiate at this point, and how I might go about that process if so?
Tough to say without more context. Totally the answer is that they won’t budge, but if you have leverage and a good reason, negotiating can work for return. You won’t budge a ton in most cases but it’s possible. Try to get competing opportunities at least started.
Just make sure to do the math about your RSUs of your current position… you might feel good about your total comp increasing, but you gotta start all over with your vesting cycles!
You can. It depends on a lot of factors though. What companies you worked at, how fast it grew, what impact you drive, how well you interview, will you network into FAANG well, are you located in the right region, etc.
I think its important to re-iterate you have to be in a population of people that can take the risk of negotiating. I thought the advice is great for people that dont depend heavily on paying rent off. Of course if youre dedicated to spending your life in CS/tech, you will eventually get a role with negotiations. But some people prefer an initially conservative approach until they can break through initially. For instance, I already worked my first job in tech, but my second job only came recently after a year of job gap. Arguably a salary raise would make sense for the time without a job, but at the same time i cant risk savings over a few grand of salary increase.
Your personal runway both financially and psychologically and the downside risk are important factors in how aggressively you negotiate for sure. Great point
@@ColinLate Thanks. Ive always thought it was quite an interesting topic that tech jobs get paid in such a way. It seems like a lot of companies dont know what to expect so execs just go willie nillie with the company's cash reserves. Not much in the way of expectations and a standardized approach to software, is there. The EU and India pays differently salaries, but I think even they have to compete with the global market, too. I suppose its always just mirrored the signs of a very young and risky industry. People do crazy stuff with not just their software, but money too, and its not always the best thing...
Glad this got recommended to me! I have been working in an engineering firm for about 9 months after graduate school and research, and I received a promotion 2 weeks ago. Typically, this next level takes about 3 years to get. However, the new title and merit increase doesn't take effect until November. We never discussed what the new salary would be. Should I be proactive in this case and bring this up now? I am worried that come November, they will use the excuse that there isn't time for negotiations anymore. I have saved this company multiple times my own salary so far this year so my worth is well known, but they know I don't want to leave as well
Promotion negotiations should start as much as a year or more before the promo. You need to create expectations and a plan that you track regularly with your boss. You can start later, but your best shot is to start with your manager yesterday
No fancy story behind this one. It’s typically just because you only have so many rounds to negotiate. This path tends to get the first back and forth in a bidding war to start from a higher place. It then starts the first of 2-3 rounds of negotiation with your top choice from a higher first number.
Thank you for this gold! In Counter Offer #1, how do you leave it open? What if they say, look we don’t want to keep guessing your expectations and going back and forth - which seems like a reasonable frustration. How do you handle this?
Ideally you can keep anchoring them higher after that to let them get creative, but if you’ve got no other offers, then you start using each of your arguments to ask for a higher number. Then maybe one more counter for final asks based on what you’re giving up and a promise you’ll sign if they hit that number.
Hi Collin, brilliant video. thanks for this. I’d love to hear your opinion on my situation. I’ve signed a contract with a very well-known Big Tech company (they don’t seem to give offer letters, so I signed the contract directly). In the meantime, I received a higher offer from my current company, but I still want to join the new company as they seem very eager to have me. What are your thoughts on asking recruiter / HM about negotiating the compensation after signing the contract? Is it worth to ask for shares or at least a sign-on? Thanks
I never recommend doing this. This is a red flag for most employers. If you sign a contract and then ask to change it, how will you handle agreements with partners inside and outside the firm? Generally you should do all your negotiations before signing. Maybe others would counsel differently, but this is my take based on my experience with candidates and leaders. You could bring it up, but it will be a risk and I wouldn’t do it myself.
Thank you so much for the awesome content! Is there any recommendations for internal hiring? When they all know about my current pay/position and the recruiter specifically said that there's very little room to negotiate.
It’s harder to negotiate internally. You can still do it, but they have more power in the relationship usually. Some companies just won’t negotiate much as a policy for internal transfers
I would work directly with the hiring manager though. Go through a 30:60:90 day plan after you get the offer with them. Work through the impact and scope and ask them if they’ll go to bat for you in a negotiation.
Thank you. I find this video very information dense and helpful. I recently walked away from an offer which, looking in hind sight with your video, was poorly negotiated on my part. I think my key mistake was being way too transparent and divulging too much information too early. Specifically I told the recruiter my bottom line i.e. what's the minimum offer (+X% of my current comp) I'd consider an acceptable offer. And guess what, the offer came back almost exactly that amount. So even after counter offers and negotiating upwards with several back and forths, I ended up in a place where I still felt I was being undervalued and I would lose on opportunity cost and work life balance for an amount that was not convincing, so I ended up walking away. Unfortunately I felt the recruiter and HM had the impression that I was never winnable from how I walked away and they were both unpleasantly surprised I rejected their adjusted offer downright. Looking back, I did not evaluate my actual expectations accurately. I could see a world where we arrive at the final offer via a different route and I would have taken it, but I could also see myself getting a much better offer and be happy with that.
It’s hard to tell of course, but at least there is a different approach you will try next time. Many folks think there is no path forward when there might be if you understand how the other side feels. I don’t know all the context of that situation, but I have seen seemingly completely pulled offers be brought back to life through the right human, empathetic approach.
I try to avoid those awful forms! But seriously your main objective there is to move forward, not negotiate. Depends on the role/company/industry. For US PM roles I would put near the top end of the job posting range on the JD. That’s just the base salary anyway. You can tell the recruiter when they bring it up that you weren’t thinking of compensation at this stage and just entered a number, but are sure you will come to something that works for everyone later in the process. Some recruiters get upset that you surprised them so you can get around this by telling them after your 1st round interviews that you didn’t know what to enter there at the time and will discuss it later once you meet the team and know more about the role. You can also bring up if you’re in process with other companies but don’t mention details at this point.
What do you do if the salary band that they mention is much lower than your walk away or target number? Do you still proceed in the hopes they can make it? How much below your target is okay to still move forward in the hopes that you can negotiate upto your target?
What isn’t negotiable at the start might be at the end. You might get them up after you interview and get the first offer or even a greater scope and level. That is why generally at least you shouldn’t negotiate at the beginning when your value is lowest and the role clarity is not yet set. If it’s a startup and you expect $500k cash but they offer $170k liquid, you can use your judgment.
Ha this is before I knew how to edit so I just did it old fashioned slides style. Glad you found it valuable! Check out my newsletter for more articles on the topic.
Amazing video. I feel that im still away to have a offer from a mang but who knows... i will keep working on this! Thank you for the video. Very informative!
is this a smart thing to do for a first professional job in finance? for example IB or accounting etc. or should I take whatever they give me for the first year or two so that at least I have some experience in my CV for my next position?
I know less about IB. New grad roles are usually less negotiable but it’s worth trying a low aggression version. I’ve seen new grads negotiating in tech with some success. Some companies and offices don’t but I can’t speak to your specific circumstances
29 yo chronically unemployed and furry cement encasement prn addicted me living on 3 figures a month in rural France: ah yes, how are we doing my fellow Californian tech workers?
I watched your other video on top jobs in tech and data scientists were at $166k if I understood your chart correctly. Im in data at low six figures right now. I’m looking online and the jobs appear to be in the 65k-130k range and the higher end is as a senior data scientist. What can I do to get to where you are or close to it? Do you have resources? Recruiters? I feel lost as to what skills/certificates/other forms of validation I should actually spend time on that convert reliably to income. Then, who is even offering these high salaries? Is it just FAANG? How much are people faking it till they make it? My perception is that people in these jobs could run circles around me based on job requirements for even 80k jobs. I feel completely out of the game and it makes me sad and frustrated. It’s like there’s something I totally missed and I don’t know how/where to get it and what reality is vs my self-doubt.
The other aspect is that they are Total Compensation including bonuses and equity. Job postings have basic base salary ranges that don’t include equity as well. Look at levels.fyi
"Recruiter: Sorry we have a no-negotiation policy" Is this ever actually the case? Also, is it possible to boost base-salary, even if it means reducing the equity value? I'd think its probably hard with startups since they are more strapped for immediate cash, but wondering how much leeway there is
Sometimes it is. Small startups will not negotiate sometimes on base salary with lower level candidates. Some big companies will not negotiate much with new grads. In general, it’s usually a white lie. They just mean they can’t negotiate until they get an executive to make an exception for you.
If a company says you only have 2 days to accept, how likely is it that your saying “I need more time to talk to my spouse” will lead to you getting more time, vs them pulling the offer once you’re at 2 days?
You need to get them to formally and in writing approve the extension otherwise they will probably pull. Typically you ask the recruiter first. If they push back, you talk to the hiring manager who can be more empathetic and push for more time. There are many possible arguments for extending time, but simply saying you need to confer or wait until you know all your options (other offers coming) or delay by trying to schedule calls with the hiring manager and skip level leaders to get clarity on the scope, growth potential and specifics of the role and team. These can all buy time but never ignore a deadline if they haven’t approved an extension
@@ColinLateDo REAL offers really come with serious deadlines? Is there really an immediate best 2nd candidate lined up and ready to go? Shouldn’t an offer imply that “YOU are the one we want?”
@ColinLate i am about to negotiate for 2 offers, watching this gave me a whole new perpective, I am going in with totally different level of confidence
I want to let you know that I have landed the job of my dream, with the highest salary I have ever gotten. Thank you big time, your negotiation techniques were the key ❤🙏🤝
Hi there, quick query: if you negotiate too hard and manage to gain a salary at the top of the range band, do you put yourself in a danger zone eventually when layoffs are round the corner? Or are layoffs regardless of salary levels?
There are rare instances where this happens, but most layoffs are based on when you were hired, performance, and the team you’re on. The marginal difference in probability of layoffs off is probably 5-10% vs all the other factors
What's your take on smaller job markets like Poland? It seems like there are much fewer opportunities to negotiate above market due to less venture money or FAANG competing for talent
I’m definitely less familiar, but in Western and Central Europe, I know negotiations are definitely possible. I can imagine you can negotiate, but the level bands are just less broad. There are many more roles there. I recommend following some of the tech creators in that area like Pawel Huryn. (My family is Polish in origin, actually)
Is there a case for settling in a compensation range early in the process *on your end* so that you don't waste your time, if both sides are putting up a poker face (i.e. employer not required to provide bands)? Not as if we're all getting multiple offers these days to warrant "time waste", but still.
I rarely worry about time waste, but it depends heavily on your situation for whether you want to pursue further or not. I’ve definitely seen some major changes. We helped a PM negotiate a senior pm role into a director offer.
There are many. Depends on context but they can all work: Just focusing on interviews now. Deflect and ask their range then say you’re sure you’ll come to something that works for everyone. Hard to say before meeting the team, learning more about the role, and have all the details. Just starting your search. Pick a bunch. Usually they’ll let you go.
A junior company wanted me. I kept saying no for over half a year. I’m much older, but you could say, an outlier. My job is in part to provide broad technical experience, mentoring. My role is I’m the “dreamer”. To grow the company with new lines of products, mergers and acquisitions. You could say they gave me the keys to the kingdom, I chose the direction. My salary is low, covers my expenses and my chosen title is very modest, mid level tech lead (this is a client facing title, so intentionally not intimidating). They want to keep me, motivate me. So the bonus is 4% of gross margin from sales. Not my sales, but all sales from all divisions and subsidiaries. Gross margin is 60%. Products are half a million to several million each. I’m growing the company by multiples (not percentage) each year. This is also “golden handcuffs”, they want me long term. BTW, that “bonus” is every year. Do the math…
Well this is mostly relevant to tech, but principles may still apply. I wouldn’t worry so long as your income helps you live well and meet your goals. People are never satisfied, even high earners in tech.
Does a lot of this still hold true for hardware based jobs at tech companies? Think Amazon, but their Kuiper satellite area. Historically, my hardware based jobs seemingly dont pay anywhere near those levels you shared here, but am curious if Amazon just has levels for the entire company, regardless of hardware/software. I also feel like companies like SpaceX seem to drive down total comp via "cool work environment and cool projects" as part od the comp. Curious if you think Amazon is similar on that front. Great video though, i took lots of notes for myself for my (hopefully) up coming interviews.
I’ve seen it happen for sure. Especially at top companies. Levels are specific to function. Hardware has their own levels and bands. But hardware pays less in general, with some exceptions
Most of the time the salary range is included in the job description and mentioned in the recruiting call. They emphasize that is the budget range. Kinda difficult to wiggle around that. Are they just giving you a BS budget range or will they shut you down if you ask for higher?
This is not the full budget. It is the regular budget without getting exceptions and exceptions happen all the time with our clients. This lets them legally say this is the typical range
The vid seems to have a lot of points in common with Haseeb's "how not to bomb your offer negociation" series of articles, I loved those blog posts. Have you read them?
Yes I have. Definitely recommend the read. I don’t agree with b 100% but it’s very worthwhile. Another great negotiator also posted another article on my newsletter: www.toptechnewsletter.com
@@ColinLate I did get a 5k counter offer. Not what I was looking for but the practice of negotiating is key. One more email sent and like you mentioned, pays off in the end.
There is always a balance between what you want and your output once you’re in the job. If expectations are not met you risk termination all future offers with other companies.
This is sometimes true, but I mostly find that the extra compensation doesn’t affect expectations as much as you would think. It’s situation dependent.
@@ColinLate Sure - Another point which is overlooked and we see this all the time is a candidate negotiates a high salary get the job then at some point has to go out to market only to alarmed that others are paying nowhere as much with little option but to take less. Be cautious and demonstrate merit and value in the job and earn your way up. That’s much more sustainable.
Money isn't everything. I know folks who are very happy without all this. I used to make CAD$39k/year. It was stressful. I thought about work much less, but money a lot more.
Hard to say without much more context about your situation, how serious you are, and the recruiter. My first instinct is that you shouldn’t negotiate that with the recruiter but with the hiring manager if the recruiter is not budging.
Small criticism but I find the belief at the start that executives at fast growing startups or VPs at FAANG might know better than some other experts extremely naïve. You don't know what made them arrive there, or in spite of what they made it here
Yep, that’s why I get as many perspectives as I can. I actually coach executives on negotiations now because many haven’t even needed to negotiate to earn a lot. But many executives have experienced both sides of 100s of negotiations in their careers and they have very useful lessons.
Read the "New Rules For Negotiating In 2024+" article in my newsletter: www.toptechnewsletter.com/p/the-new-rules-of-negotiating-your
Interested in negotiation coaching? Find time for an intro call: feelvalued.co
Are you incognito on LinkedIn? Super interested
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It is one of the best resources for tech salary negotiations out there. Your grounded and thought-through insights have helped me see things more clearly. Thanks a lot, Colin!
So glad to hear it was helpful! Were you searching for a job right now?
I've recently started my search and moved further along in the pipeline with some companies. So, it was great timing to find your content.@@ColinLate
This is so awesome. Have to save this for when I negotiate. Totally wouldn’t know most of this!
Thanks! Glad you found it helpful.
I like your approach. 0 bragging, 0 BS. Genuinely insightful and to the point.
Some would say the intro is bragging, but I do try to just give the best advice I have at the moment and hope it helps without putting anyone in a tough spot.
There's a newer article we wrote about how to negotiate in this tough market on my newsletter.
For someone who has had very little exposure with negotiating salaries, this was an eye-opening video for me. This is one of those things they do not teach you in any CS program.
They don’t! I recommend watching more videos on the topic that discuss new grads. I also have a newsletter with some other negotiation posts.
This guy knows how it works. Ive worked at Google, Microsoft and other corps. I've learned this too late but such knowledge helped me to get decent increases between jobs.
Thank you and I’m glad you started advocating for yourself. I’m hoping folks don’t have to learn the hard way.
@@ColinLate I think adding a context that in eu those comps are lower than in US. People need to be aware of that. I'm based in EU and got to the ceiling.
@@basstradamus1 Whats the EU cieling in tech?
@@desertshadow721-1.2m eur total comp, beyond that amount you need to sit on boards or be VP in big tech which is impossible in Europe pretty much.
But, in today's job market, there are so many people applying that the companies have more leverage and can pay in the lower range of salaries
I'm unintentionally fantastic at interviewing and not so bad at salary negotiations. This video is full of fabulous advice for anyone trying improve their skills.
It's a tough market out there, so I feel you. I hope this comes in handy, though! There's a newer article we wrote about how to negotiate in this tough market on my newsletter.
This is gold dude, probably the best video on TH-cam on this topic, really next level!
Hope it’s valuable!
Some things to consider:
1) Tech job market state is not so great
2) There are performance reviews and mid-reviews, and people with higher level would get worse grades for same work.
3) Some companies will mark a checkbox in your profile like 'inflated_salary_expectations'
Love this comment!
1) True, but we still see successful negotiations all the time with our coaching services. Just not as high.
2) This is a smart thing to consider. You do want to make sure you will succeed no matter the level. I find it’s more admit the culture or role fit than the level fit performance reviews, but you do get more leeway in more junior roles.
3) You only negotiate at the end and you have to gauge all the relationships and signals I discuss.
2) In my expirience "succeding" in big tech is mostly not controlled by you. For example:
a) You need to find the great project (tasks), and these are always scarce
b) Then implement them with compliance to everchanging company metrics with "business impact" and "technical exellence"
c) Then you will be reviewed against your teammates behind the closed doors (and there is usually grade quoutas)
3) Yes. But companies keep and update profiles about employees even after hiring
Man, this video brings up so many strange emotions within me as a 28 yr old who just quit my job, looking to change industries completely starting at the bottom of the IT world, never made more than $60k a year, but also made more than my parents ever have. Just seeing these numbers thrown around feels so weird. It's aspirational/exciting/daunting/demoralizing/interesting all together. It's a great video all around. I hope one day it will be helpful for me
Good luck, it's certainly possible. I started in IT Support and after many years am a Staff Software Engineer. I really love the work and try my best.
Don’t worry about the huge numbers. Honestly I’d be fine making a small fraction of this after making 40k early in my career. Just make sure you’re in the best boat you can get into to when you start to row. That matters as much as how hard you row
Welp... watching this was the most productive 45 min of my life!
Your advice that our stretch goal "may not even be high enough" was spot on. I actually exceeded my stretch early by keeping my mouth shut, and being respectful (but slightly apprehensive) whenever they put out a number. That made my counter easy too because I could ask for a smaller (5-10%) increase and show sincere gratitude to get it. Felt very win-win.
I do feel like this advice is more geared toward senior/staff and higher roles, and is sorta predicated on nailing the interview.
Glad you found it helpful! And nailing your interviews really helps but isn’t the only way to get the role. Just amplifies
This is an incredible video.
Huge thank you!
A video about how to interpret recruiters words/messages would also be very helpful to tag on to this video.
When they say this…..it means or could mean this.
Glad it helped!
Interesting. Do you have some examples?
@@ColinLate Example: Talent emails me right after 4 final interviews and wants to schedule a meeting for follow up.
They want to “see how I felt they went and chat.” Any insight on this vague message?
Overall slides on if they say this…..it could mean 1, 2, or 3. Similar to your slides on prep for negotiation.
You are making the best videos on this overall process/subject. Big thanks! 🙏
Best ever value/time ratio on youtube I found so far. Great job!
I hope it works for you! Check out a more recent article on the topic too: www.toptechnewsletter.com/p/the-new-rules-of-negotiating-your
Best negotiation video Ive seen so far. Thank you so much for sharing your insights. I really appreciate your thoughtful and logical approach.
I’m glad you found it valuable! I’ve got a new article on the topic if you want more: www.toptechnewsletter.com/p/the-new-rules-of-negotiating-your?r=f1aru&
$2M per year? That's more than I've made in my entire life.
No one really deserves it, but if companies will pay it… the typical low-mid six figures is more common in US tech
@@ColinLatewhat do you mean US tech? Are you saying you have experience out of the US?
@@ColinLate low mid six figures? six figures is low?
@@Omkar3324low-mid meaning like 250k-500k
@@Omkar3324no he’s not saying six figures is low. He’s referring low six figures to probably under 250,000 and mid six figures to roughly 500,000. It’s a rough way of approximating how much money tech companies in the US may pay.
Really good talk, surprised the algorithm hasn’t blessed it even more.
Some of the content is more geared towards later in a career, but definitely walked away with some nuggets of info applicable at all stages
Nice presentation style, too
Well I hope it’s useful. Yes, I do work mostly with mid career candidates and senior leaders, but the principles helped me very early in my career.
Thanks for making this Colin. I’ve been a military pilot for 15 years and going into the last round interview for my first civilian job. Whilst there are differences between our industries, you’ve given me some tactics and food for thought. Thanks.
(Too bad aviation compensation is nowhere near tech…)
Sounds like a heck of a fun job though
Cant believe this guy has less than 7K subs. This is absolutely solid! This is worth listening to!
Just need to make more videos, I guess!
I watched this video out of curiosity more than need. Personally I'm highly confident in my interviewing for my niche field and I did well the last time I moved positions even though I made mistakes. This is an easy video I'll flag and share with others instead of trying to coach them how to succeed in interviews. I liked the way you laid out your approach and the pieces at play. Something a lot of people I've talked to struggle with likeability and helping them understand how to politely guide the conversation in terms of salary expectations or starting a negotiation once an offer is provided.
Lots of raving comments here. And I agree the advice in generally sound. But the most important graphic was the 1st one he showed of how many times he has climbed. It will take many iterations of attempting negotiations to get good at it. Dodging # questions is easier said than done and discovery requires experience and skill. That being said. You should absolutely make an attempt!
Yes. You get better each time. Ask mentors. And we run a negotiation coaching service for this reason. Scripts, mocks, objection handling, etc. It is hard to do it all perfectly the first time
This video completely changed how approach interviews. I feel much more confident now
Glad to hear it!
I knew the common advice to give the first number to appear confident is bs! That's some real value here, even though im more interested in working for medium sized companies. Going to shoot for a 50% salary increase by end of year with these techniques.
I wish you well! Let us know how it goes. What role/function/location?
@@ColinLate Thanks! Enterprise Linux Consultant in South Germany, 3 years experience.
This is so important. Well presented. I've walked away from a number of offers because I did my own equity analysis, and found that the valuations were extremely stretched, to the point they'd be lucky to grow into it (from being valued during a bubble). Everyone should understand how to value a company, and understand that private equity exits should also add to your risk premium (it's highly illiquid, generally trades below fair value, and comes with high transaction fees)
Yes! But not everyone took finance or tracks equity markets. I hope this helps a little. I have more content on the topic in my newsletter.
Man this is top notch content . Not ur typical yt channels with bs regurgitated advice!
Appreciated. I hope I have a higher bar than regurgitated crap though!
@@ColinLate oh I really do apologize, i meant. Better than the common regurgitated youtube crap you see from other channels. Thx again. Subbed on YT and to jr newsletter
It's pretty annoying when outside folks trivialize the technical interview and say things like "simply crush the technical interview and then you can negotiate". Dude, Meta is currently asking 3 medium Leetcode questions in 45 minutes. That's 1 medium every 15 minutes and you have to be perfect 3 times in arow. Congrats, my guy.. you can help the top 0.01% engineers negotiate a better salary.
Fair. It’s tough. We help folks negotiate all the time. You can still negotiate if you pass the interviews without being a top performer. It just limits your upside depending how you do on the other factors like unique skillset for the role and external leverage. At TikTok, they tier their negotiation strategy based on interview performance but we just got someone an $85k increase despite not being a top interview performer. It just helps a heck of a lot.
Do you have some hints for someone outside USA to get an interview in for example facebook?
I have over 8 years of experience in java, but I think that people inside USA get easier a chance.
most medium leetcode questions arent that hard tho...
more like top 10 to 5%
@@bartekburmistrz8679yes they are lol.
The point about skip prep is a good one that a lot of videos on this topic don't cover. In some cases making a small concession on salary can be worth it for a role that can get you where you need to be later.
Wish i saw this video earlier. Uk financial manager and set my salary against the other execs, however i bring so much more value to the table.
Employers have a procedural scarcity mindset and focus on percent increase being too high rather than value trade off.
Got 55k.
Yeah. It is like that. Different companies and industries…and even managers view things differently. You can do a lot with these strategies, but the company’s compensation philosophy can limit you unless you’re absolutely top talent.
A junior company wanted me. I kept saying no for over half a year. I’m much older, but you could say, an outlier. My job is in part to provide broad technical experience, mentoring. My role is I’m the “dreamer”. To grow the company with new lines of products, mergers and acquisitions. My salary is low, covers my expenses and my chosen title is very modest, mid level tech lead. They want to keep me, motivate me. So the bonus is 4% of gross margin from sales. Not my sales, but all sales from all divisions and subsidiaries. Gross margin is 60%. Products are half a million to several million each. I’m growing the company by multiples (not percentage) each year. BTW, that “bonus” is every year. Do the math…
Thanks for the reply
Great information. But I will say this. It seems the majority of what is described here is predominantly meant for specific Sr. level roles, or Fortune type orgs where a person would actually have such a huge window of salary/ options to negotiate to begin with. Assuming that's not where one is then there is either: NO negotiation via the company, OR a very small window to work in.
This works for startups and public tech companies primarily, yes. It does work elsewhere, but that’s what I know first hand.
Yes, what he is saying I think only applies to Senior roles at high growth start up / scale ups and large tech firms. Not just that but it only applies to technologists and perhaps sales and marketing. Finance, compliance, operations, risk management, audit and any other orgs not perceived as revenue generating or cost reducing have little to no leverage and would like lose the opportunity following this playbook. But seems like fantastic advice to those in which it applies.
It also applies to more junior people at the larger tech companies IF you do really well in the review and have other offers.
It also applies to smaller software companies (not all of them) and consultancies.
However, the extent to which it applies in those cases is less than a senior startup/tech company role.
You don’t have as high limits but you can be sure they will all try to lowball you if they can.
They usually get away with it because so many people don’t know they have some power or they aren’t confident enough to apply it.
(Speaking only in relation to software industry. I’m not familiar with others but I’m sure they’re similar in a lot of cases.)
If you are a junior, don’t feel like you’re missing out. If you have this knowledge already, as your career progresses you’ll be in a much better position to make the most of it.
I wish I knew more about this when I was a junior. I got screwed pretty bad a couple of times due to naivety.
@@0xKaine That's a good take. Made me think about the positions/ business units I've been part of previously and whether they would be considered as a heavier lifter under the umbrella of 'revenue generating' departments....
Hey Colin, great video I highly appreciate the clear and concise delivery, no gimmicks just facts, strategy and expertise. My question is, is it a good idea it to make a presentation that justifies why you deserve a raise. Something like a 15 minute slide deck? This could include projects you’ve excelled on, things you did that have high value, the likelihood function you were talking about and so on. Thanks hope to hear back!
Hey - This will really depend on a lot of factors. I don't know your function or workplace culture, but I rarely think a presentation is the right way to go. For both new offer negotiations and raises, I usually recommend a 30/60/90 day draft plan that you go over collaboratively with your Hiring Manager as well as collecting a brag book. Consider promotions and raises a multi-month process where you work together with your manager to set expectations, track progress, get feedback to grow, and then it shouldn't be a surprise whether you're getting a raise or promotion in the end. Presentations are too one-directional.
Thanks for the vid! Lots of good insights.
I find it awkward to ask to meet with the HM or even 2nd level to pitch my value/impact just to ask them for more money. Can an email suffice? Better yet, can I just write up those points to the recruiter to take to the HM or are recruiters not trustable?
You're direct but detailed in your explanations as well. Great indicator of communication skills and experience. Appreciate the vid, and subscribed.
Thank you and I hope it’s valuable
Wow! It’s been only 10 minutes through and I’ve already couple of insights I’m grateful for enough to like, comment and subscribe. Thank you!
Thank you! I really hope it helps
I liked for the algo... but mainly because this was a great watch. Thanks a lot for this little gem
Truly appreciate it and I hope it’s helpful!
As everyone else has said, this is liquid gold! This is mostly geared towards those with some work experience. Do you have any wisdom for those who are currently students looking for internships or graduate roles in the future? Do you think it is even possible to negotiate compensation for graduate positions in the current market?
It is but it’s tough. I don’t know your specific situation so it’s very hard to give general advice, but if you do it, don’t take too much risk, do it in person kindly, and make sure you are okay with the consequences of a bad actor on the other side. I have definitely seen even in this market and even in Europe new grads negotiating successfully with big tech. It’s just tougher and your career is long anyway.
These are solid insights. Super actionable. A thought, would you avoid sharing existing/projected levelling in recruiter interviews as it exposes current salary range/caps their budget flexibility early on, or could it be used as a subtle nudge? Most people would know the levelling through insiders and comparable salary via the US market
Very situation dependent but typically you want to avoid divulging information
What a great video. Question - How would you approach this as a new grad when negotiating offers?
It’s harder, depends on the company, but I’ve seen it happen! A great return offer where they love you or multiple competing offers can get you an increase occasionally. Don’t be surprised if it doesn’t since especially big tech cos can have stricter policies for new grad negotiations.
love the content, very well structured and informative. appreciate it.
Thank you! I hope it is useful
This is such a helpful video. I wish I had seen this before getting my job with Amazon or moving on to a different company.
Question - Does this work when you get a promotion within the same company? Do you ever negotiate with your annual reviews or just take the compensation that you are offered.
You do a different process. Some of the same principles apply. Start keeping a brag book, work with your manager up to a year before the promotion cycle to keep aligning with them monthly and do 30-60-90 day plan reviews with them when it comes up to a cycle to let them know you’re ready for the promo. One day I’ll do a video on this but check out a life engineered on TH-cam in the meantime
Do you have any recommendations for negotiating after receiving a return offer after an internship? I've talked to fellow interns who also received offers, and we're all getting the same salary, bonus, sign on, etc. , however I will be starting with a master's when I graduate, while a majority of the interns will only have a bachelor's degree. I've already received the paperwork to actually get hired, so curious on your thoughts on if it's still possible to negotiate at this point, and how I might go about that process if so?
Tough to say without more context. Totally the answer is that they won’t budge, but if you have leverage and a good reason, negotiating can work for return. You won’t budge a ton in most cases but it’s possible. Try to get competing opportunities at least started.
Just make sure to do the math about your RSUs of your current position… you might feel good about your total comp increasing, but you gotta start all over with your vesting cycles!
Yes! I wrote an article on my newsletter recently about Pre-IPO job searches that tackles this a bit
I am 40 with lots of experience. Currently I am a SE Manager with additional Lead Developer tasks. Can I still apply to FAANG?
You can. It depends on a lot of factors though. What companies you worked at, how fast it grew, what impact you drive, how well you interview, will you network into FAANG well, are you located in the right region, etc.
I think its important to re-iterate you have to be in a population of people that can take the risk of negotiating. I thought the advice is great for people that dont depend heavily on paying rent off. Of course if youre dedicated to spending your life in CS/tech, you will eventually get a role with negotiations. But some people prefer an initially conservative approach until they can break through initially. For instance, I already worked my first job in tech, but my second job only came recently after a year of job gap. Arguably a salary raise would make sense for the time without a job, but at the same time i cant risk savings over a few grand of salary increase.
Your personal runway both financially and psychologically and the downside risk are important factors in how aggressively you negotiate for sure. Great point
@@ColinLate Thanks. Ive always thought it was quite an interesting topic that tech jobs get paid in such a way. It seems like a lot of companies dont know what to expect so execs just go willie nillie with the company's cash reserves. Not much in the way of expectations and a standardized approach to software, is there. The EU and India pays differently salaries, but I think even they have to compete with the global market, too.
I suppose its always just mirrored the signs of a very young and risky industry. People do crazy stuff with not just their software, but money too, and its not always the best thing...
Does this work in early career, or when you're not top talent? I often find myself negotiating lower just to increase my chances of landing the job.
I don’t know your situation, but I’ve seen m new grads and folks who barely got an offer negotiate successfully.
Glad this got recommended to me! I have been working in an engineering firm for about 9 months after graduate school and research, and I received a promotion 2 weeks ago. Typically, this next level takes about 3 years to get. However, the new title and merit increase doesn't take effect until November. We never discussed what the new salary would be. Should I be proactive in this case and bring this up now? I am worried that come November, they will use the excuse that there isn't time for negotiations anymore. I have saved this company multiple times my own salary so far this year so my worth is well known, but they know I don't want to leave as well
Promotion negotiations should start as much as a year or more before the promo. You need to create expectations and a plan that you track regularly with your boss. You can start later, but your best shot is to start with your manager yesterday
Interesting point about using other offers as the last lever for the top offer. Is there some more background to that?
No fancy story behind this one. It’s typically just because you only have so many rounds to negotiate. This path tends to get the first back and forth in a bidding war to start from a higher place. It then starts the first of 2-3 rounds of negotiation with your top choice from a higher first number.
Thank you for this gold! In Counter Offer #1, how do you leave it open? What if they say, look we don’t want to keep guessing your expectations and going back and forth - which seems like a reasonable frustration. How do you handle this?
After the first offer they give you, you take your time then come back with numbers. You just want to get them to give the first number.
Ideally you can keep anchoring them higher after that to let them get creative, but if you’ve got no other offers, then you start using each of your arguments to ask for a higher number. Then maybe one more counter for final asks based on what you’re giving up and a promise you’ll sign if they hit that number.
But again this is very situation dependent and there is no one size fits all tactic since there are humans you’re dealing with
Hi Collin, brilliant video. thanks for this. I’d love to hear your opinion on my situation. I’ve signed a contract with a very well-known Big Tech company (they don’t seem to give offer letters, so I signed the contract directly). In the meantime, I received a higher offer from my current company, but I still want to join the new company as they seem very eager to have me.
What are your thoughts on asking recruiter / HM about negotiating the compensation after signing the contract? Is it worth to ask for shares or at least a sign-on? Thanks
I never recommend doing this. This is a red flag for most employers. If you sign a contract and then ask to change it, how will you handle agreements with partners inside and outside the firm? Generally you should do all your negotiations before signing. Maybe others would counsel differently, but this is my take based on my experience with candidates and leaders. You could bring it up, but it will be a risk and I wouldn’t do it myself.
Thank you so much for the awesome content!
Is there any recommendations for internal hiring? When they all know about my current pay/position and the recruiter specifically said that there's very little room to negotiate.
It’s harder to negotiate internally. You can still do it, but they have more power in the relationship usually. Some companies just won’t negotiate much as a policy for internal transfers
I would work directly with the hiring manager though. Go through a 30:60:90 day plan after you get the offer with them. Work through the impact and scope and ask them if they’ll go to bat for you in a negotiation.
Thank you. I find this video very information dense and helpful.
I recently walked away from an offer which, looking in hind sight with your video, was poorly negotiated on my part.
I think my key mistake was being way too transparent and divulging too much information too early. Specifically I told the recruiter my bottom line i.e. what's the minimum offer (+X% of my current comp) I'd consider an acceptable offer. And guess what, the offer came back almost exactly that amount.
So even after counter offers and negotiating upwards with several back and forths, I ended up in a place where I still felt I was being undervalued and I would lose on opportunity cost and work life balance for an amount that was not convincing, so I ended up walking away. Unfortunately I felt the recruiter and HM had the impression that I was never winnable from how I walked away and they were both unpleasantly surprised I rejected their adjusted offer downright.
Looking back, I did not evaluate my actual expectations accurately. I could see a world where we arrive at the final offer via a different route and I would have taken it, but I could also see myself getting a much better offer and be happy with that.
It’s hard to tell of course, but at least there is a different approach you will try next time. Many folks think there is no path forward when there might be if you understand how the other side feels. I don’t know all the context of that situation, but I have seen seemingly completely pulled offers be brought back to life through the right human, empathetic approach.
most workday application systems that you have to fill out before you apply ask your salary expectations, what do you put in there?
I try to avoid those awful forms! But seriously your main objective there is to move forward, not negotiate. Depends on the role/company/industry. For US PM roles I would put near the top end of the job posting range on the JD. That’s just the base salary anyway. You can tell the recruiter when they bring it up that you weren’t thinking of compensation at this stage and just entered a number, but are sure you will come to something that works for everyone later in the process. Some recruiters get upset that you surprised them so you can get around this by telling them after your 1st round interviews that you didn’t know what to enter there at the time and will discuss it later once you meet the team and know more about the role. You can also bring up if you’re in process with other companies but don’t mention details at this point.
Grate vid! for 28:00 what is the right answer is there any way to use it as leverage?
Which specific question?
@@ColinLate Interviewing elsewhere?
This video is amazing, and doesn't get enough views and likes! Thank you so much!
Glad you liked it! Any questions for a follow up I’m making?
What do you do if the salary band that they mention is much lower than your walk away or target number? Do you still proceed in the hopes they can make it? How much below your target is okay to still move forward in the hopes that you can negotiate upto your target?
What isn’t negotiable at the start might be at the end. You might get them up after you interview and get the first offer or even a greater scope and level. That is why generally at least you shouldn’t negotiate at the beginning when your value is lowest and the role clarity is not yet set.
If it’s a startup and you expect $500k cash but they offer $170k liquid, you can use your judgment.
This is so well presented!
Thanks for a lot of validation!
Ha this is before I knew how to edit so I just did it old fashioned slides style. Glad you found it valuable! Check out my newsletter for more articles on the topic.
in this market you're lucky you get an offer, other than that yeah the advice is good
It’s true, but even with one offer we help people negotiate all the time these days. It’s just hard to get one!
Amazing video. I feel that im still away to have a offer from a mang but who knows... i will keep working on this! Thank you for the video. Very informative!
MANG isn’t everything! Hope it’s valuable
is this a smart thing to do for a first professional job in finance? for example IB or accounting etc.
or should I take whatever they give me for the first year or two so that at least I have some experience in my CV for my next position?
I know less about IB. New grad roles are usually less negotiable but it’s worth trying a low aggression version. I’ve seen new grads negotiating in tech with some success. Some companies and offices don’t but I can’t speak to your specific circumstances
Just lower your aggression if you do decide to try it unless you have very good backup alternatives. I speak only from a US tech perspective
Wow this was some amazing information! Thank you
Excellently presented and thoroughly insightful, going through this now, much appreciated Colin!
Thanks! Check out my newsletter for some more on the topic
29 yo chronically unemployed and furry cement encasement prn addicted me living on 3 figures a month in rural France: ah yes, how are we doing my fellow Californian tech workers?
47 yo, living in rural Czechia, employed by California tech. Your location is not that important anymore.
Half our engineers were in Croatia. There are good roles all over
I watched your other video on top jobs in tech and data scientists were at $166k if I understood your chart correctly. Im in data at low six figures right now. I’m looking online and the jobs appear to be in the 65k-130k range and the higher end is as a senior data scientist. What can I do to get to where you are or close to it? Do you have resources? Recruiters? I feel lost as to what skills/certificates/other forms of validation I should actually spend time on that convert reliably to income. Then, who is even offering these high salaries? Is it just FAANG? How much are people faking it till they make it? My perception is that people in these jobs could run circles around me based on job requirements for even 80k jobs. I feel completely out of the game and it makes me sad and frustrated. It’s like there’s something I totally missed and I don’t know how/where to get it and what reality is vs my self-doubt.
Aha. To clarify: That other video had median compensation across individual contributor levels, not entry level.
The other aspect is that they are Total Compensation including bonuses and equity. Job postings have basic base salary ranges that don’t include equity as well. Look at levels.fyi
@@ColinLate Appreciate it man! Do you have a suggestion on where to look for recruiters? Does levels cover that?
Good points. Also the book never split the difference is a pretty good add on to this advise.
I’ve definitely read it. Silence, mirroring, labeling, etc all work very well for our clients
"Recruiter: Sorry we have a no-negotiation policy" Is this ever actually the case?
Also, is it possible to boost base-salary, even if it means reducing the equity value? I'd think its probably hard with startups since they are more strapped for immediate cash, but wondering how much leeway there is
Sometimes it is. Small startups will not negotiate sometimes on base salary with lower level candidates. Some big companies will not negotiate much with new grads. In general, it’s usually a white lie. They just mean they can’t negotiate until they get an executive to make an exception for you.
If a company says you only have 2 days to accept, how likely is it that your saying “I need more time to talk to my spouse” will lead to you getting more time, vs them pulling the offer once you’re at 2 days?
You need to get them to formally and in writing approve the extension otherwise they will probably pull. Typically you ask the recruiter first. If they push back, you talk to the hiring manager who can be more empathetic and push for more time. There are many possible arguments for extending time, but simply saying you need to confer or wait until you know all your options (other offers coming) or delay by trying to schedule calls with the hiring manager and skip level leaders to get clarity on the scope, growth potential and specifics of the role and team. These can all buy time but never ignore a deadline if they haven’t approved an extension
@@ColinLateDo REAL
offers really come with serious deadlines? Is there really an immediate best 2nd candidate lined up and ready to go?
Shouldn’t an offer imply that “YOU are the one we want?”
Wish I found this video 2 months ago, before starting this recent position. But at least I'll have these tools for the future. Thanks for sharing!
I hope it helps! Similar principles for raises. I may post something on that eventually
I came here to make a mental note of entirely too optimistic youtube audience.
Ha. Not too optimistic. Just not as pessimistic.
Incredible content, kudos brother!
Thanks! I hope it’s helpful!
@ColinLate i am about to negotiate for 2 offers, watching this gave me a whole new perpective, I am going in with totally different level of confidence
I want to let you know that I have landed the job of my dream, with the highest salary I have ever gotten. Thank you big time, your negotiation techniques were the key ❤🙏🤝
Hi there, quick query: if you negotiate too hard and manage to gain a salary at the top of the range band, do you put yourself in a danger zone eventually when layoffs are round the corner? Or are layoffs regardless of salary levels?
There are rare instances where this happens, but most layoffs are based on when you were hired, performance, and the team you’re on. The marginal difference in probability of layoffs off is probably 5-10% vs all the other factors
But it depends on the company culture around cost cutting
Alright understood. Means being an outlier in terms of salary among others would play a 5-10% role in defining whether you will be laid off.
HR: What projects have you worked lately?
Colin: I've read books on salary negotiation
You’re not wrong 😑
What's your take on smaller job markets like Poland? It seems like there are much fewer opportunities to negotiate above market due to less venture money or FAANG competing for talent
I’m definitely less familiar, but in Western and Central Europe, I know negotiations are definitely possible. I can imagine you can negotiate, but the level bands are just less broad. There are many more roles there. I recommend following some of the tech creators in that area like Pawel Huryn. (My family is Polish in origin, actually)
This guy is HR worst nightmare
Is there a case for settling in a compensation range early in the process *on your end* so that you don't waste your time, if both sides are putting up a poker face (i.e. employer not required to provide bands)?
Not as if we're all getting multiple offers these days to warrant "time waste", but still.
I rarely worry about time waste, but it depends heavily on your situation for whether you want to pursue further or not. I’ve definitely seen some major changes. We helped a PM negotiate a senior pm role into a director offer.
Very valuable, thanks for making this!
Hope it helps! You can read a new article on this at my newsletter: www.toptechnewsletter.com
what are the best responses to dodge the first compensation question with the recruiter?
There are many. Depends on context but they can all work: Just focusing on interviews now. Deflect and ask their range then say you’re sure you’ll come to something that works for everyone. Hard to say before meeting the team, learning more about the role, and have all the details. Just starting your search. Pick a bunch. Usually they’ll let you go.
Now flip things around, how do I as an employer negotiate with potential employees?
Good question. I’m writing an article on how to hire great product leaders. I might include something on negotiation
That maple neck Strat tho. 🎸
Hendrix Strat 🎸🔥
A junior company wanted me. I kept saying no for over half a year. I’m much older, but you could say, an outlier. My job is in part to provide broad technical experience, mentoring.
My role is I’m the “dreamer”. To grow the company with new lines of products, mergers and acquisitions. You could say they gave me the keys to the kingdom, I chose the direction.
My salary is low, covers my expenses and my chosen title is very modest, mid level tech lead (this is a client facing title, so intentionally not intimidating). They want to keep me, motivate me. So the bonus is 4% of gross margin from sales. Not my sales, but all sales from all divisions and subsidiaries. Gross margin is 60%. Products are half a million to several million each. I’m growing the company by multiples (not percentage) each year. This is also “golden handcuffs”, they want me long term. BTW, that “bonus” is every year. Do the math…
Better golden handcuffs than the alternative types!
Why don't you start your own company with that experience/expertise/talent?
Really interesting video, despite not even being remotely relevant to my (comparatively) miniscule income / career i'm currently in
Well this is mostly relevant to tech, but principles may still apply. I wouldn’t worry so long as your income helps you live well and meet your goals. People are never satisfied, even high earners in tech.
Does a lot of this still hold true for hardware based jobs at tech companies? Think Amazon, but their Kuiper satellite area.
Historically, my hardware based jobs seemingly dont pay anywhere near those levels you shared here, but am curious if Amazon just has levels for the entire company, regardless of hardware/software. I also feel like companies like SpaceX seem to drive down total comp via "cool work environment and cool projects" as part od the comp. Curious if you think Amazon is similar on that front.
Great video though, i took lots of notes for myself for my (hopefully) up coming interviews.
I’ve seen it happen for sure. Especially at top companies. Levels are specific to function. Hardware has their own levels and bands. But hardware pays less in general, with some exceptions
Recommend my newsletter articles on this too!
Great video. Lots of substance!
I hope it helps you!
@@ColinLate it was packed useful Tips and you structured it so clean and easy to follow.
Most of the time the salary range is included in the job description and mentioned in the recruiting call. They emphasize that is the budget range. Kinda difficult to wiggle around that. Are they just giving you a BS budget range or will they shut you down if you ask for higher?
This is not the full budget. It is the regular budget without getting exceptions and exceptions happen all the time with our clients. This lets them legally say this is the typical range
Those numbers are total compensation correct? That would put the base in a more restricted range such as low-mid six figures.
BTW, just finished listening. Great video. Thank You!
Yes. Base has much more narrow a band. It also makes up less as you move up
The vid seems to have a lot of points in common with Haseeb's "how not to bomb your offer negociation" series of articles, I loved those blog posts. Have you read them?
Yes I have. Definitely recommend the read. I don’t agree with b 100% but it’s very worthwhile. Another great negotiator also posted another article on my newsletter: www.toptechnewsletter.com
Fantastic advice, thank you
Hope it helps
Incredible video. I do all of this. And it works
Would love to hear your story
Great video!
Thank you! I hope it helps
Incredible content - thank you so much.
I hope it helps! Thanks
Taking your advice. I will let you know how it goes.
Please do! Also read the latest article on the topic at www.toptechnewsletter.com
@@ColinLate I did get a 5k counter offer. Not what I was looking for but the practice of negotiating is key. One more email sent and like you mentioned, pays off in the end.
There is always a balance between what you want and your output once you’re in the job. If expectations are not met you risk termination all future offers with other companies.
This is sometimes true, but I mostly find that the extra compensation doesn’t affect expectations as much as you would think. It’s situation dependent.
@@ColinLate Sure - Another point which is overlooked and we see this all the time is a candidate negotiates a high salary get the job then at some point has to go out to market only to alarmed that others are paying nowhere as much with little option but to take less. Be cautious and demonstrate merit and value in the job and earn your way up. That’s much more sustainable.
This seems very tailored for rockstars.
Trust me this works for almost anyone who lands a job in a tech company. But again, in a modern US/EU tech company.
Thank you vey much, keep up posting , you saved my tine!
Glad it’s helpful!
Looking at these numbers... I'm working for peanuts. And made to feel I'm lucky to do so.
Money isn't everything. I know folks who are very happy without all this. I used to make CAD$39k/year. It was stressful. I thought about work much less, but money a lot more.
How applicable is this to other industries? For example, engineering in manufacturing
Unfortunately I can’t say since I’ve only used this in software companies.
@@ColinLateThanks for the reply
How to show I am ok to walk away. I am trying to negotiate a dealine but the recruiter is not budging
Hard to say without much more context about your situation, how serious you are, and the recruiter. My first instinct is that you shouldn’t negotiate that with the recruiter but with the hiring manager if the recruiter is not budging.
Or the 4th leverage situation: have multiple offers and also can wait.
Yep
Fantastic content, I subbed!
Thanks! I really hope it helps in your next negotiation
I'ts been a while since I was able to watch a 40+ min youtube video. This is so much value
That means a lot! But makes me feel old for listening to podcasts that are 2+ hrs long on TH-cam while doing chores
@@ColinLate I also go for 5+ hour long ambient sound loops for working but I don't consider it active watching. Here I was paying attention
Small criticism but I find the belief at the start that executives at fast growing startups or VPs at FAANG might know better than some other experts extremely naïve. You don't know what made them arrive there, or in spite of what they made it here
Yep, that’s why I get as many perspectives as I can. I actually coach executives on negotiations now because many haven’t even needed to negotiate to earn a lot. But many executives have experienced both sides of 100s of negotiations in their careers and they have very useful lessons.
Great info...thanks!
Thanks! Let me know if you have questions