Hey thanks for the video. The early days info was interesting but I felt you stop talking history and started reading patch notes by the end of the video. More interesting than change notes IMHO were the roll over in music and tile set people. You didnt mention the various sound pack people at all nor the recent breakup drama of Somedeadguy with the dev team and efforts to replace his tileset with Utica. Early on you hinted at the community divide between sci fi horror simulator vs survival realism and with E/F I think its important to note the survival realism wins with item changes like forks in every cupboard, the removal of carrion bug spawns and the stupid nested pocket system. The developers have reworked the "end game" routes of Bionics, Mutations, and Death mobiles in version F+ changing these pillars of CDDA game play fairly dramatically toward realism or at least complexity. The evolution of labs as CDDA's "dungeons" I also feel deserved more mention along with the Z level of underground tunnels, sewers and subways systems. There is also the big change in the NPC system that started out spawning randomly using the sharing zombie spawn system and now are entirely being found in special locations or quest centers. Finally I'm not sure you gave enough attention to the power of CDDA infinity generating random world. THe really effective random world generator in this game is a masterpiece in replay-ability and the addition to the map like underground tunnels networking cities, rivers, lakes and islands, and even the rework of the forest generator really doesnt get enough mention. The power of the world generator has got to be the #1 difference between this game and other zombie sims. That def comes from its roots as a dwarf fortress/rogue game.
Really good points you bring up. Pinning this because it's a good writeup on the technical advancements. Running into issues with compiling the older versions defintely hindered directly looking into the differences from the earlier versions, and the patch notes definitely have a tendency to just lump additions together. I'm actually curious. How big was the Somedeadguy drama? I saw it while checking out if the game had any major community drama like SS13, but the reaction I seemed to see was people going "Oh look. Somedeadguy is starting drama over something stupid again. What else is new?"
@@archbishopwex8601 Losing the artist for the tileset most favored by the community in a scorched earth very public drama fest isnt good for anyone. ASCII heritage aside this is a visual game and more players know the name somedeadguy because of the tileset than know the names of the lead contributors to the actual code. There was also underlying suggestion of asset appropriation that tend to go with these things. Visual rebranding is always going to hemorrhage supporters. At the time it really appeared that CDDA was going to have to make major visual change away from a look most player associated with CDDA but "the art department" has landed on it feet and carried on with the assets somedeadguy had built on.
@@archbishopwex8601 I'll try to give you a write up on the SomeDeadGuy drama: UndeadPeople Tileset was by far the most favored by the community at the time, had much greater quality than anything available at the time. Meanwhile, Somedeadguy was a somewhat dislike person by the devs, mostly due to his personal beliefs and opinions. The drama started because it was found that a single image tile was taken from a minecraft mod, and instead of allowing the tileset maker to replace that single image, they decided to say "nah, the whole pack might have images that don't belong to him, lets cut it all off." Then, "coincidentaly" shortly after, UltiCata tileset was introduced, a tileset made by one of the main devs and was being forced onto the comunity as a replacement, despite being, at that time, of lower quality. So the community, that was already beginning to be split by the "muh realism" direction that the devs were taken, was divided yet again. As it stands right now Somedeadguy no longer develops a tileset, but Theawesomeboophis picked up on the project and still maintains it, he also deleted the tileset repo shortly after the drama and disapeared after some very "rude" words were exchanged between him and the developers. CDDA still treats the UndeadPeople Tileset as a outcast, despite Somedeadguy being gone and the "stolen" image being removed, you gotta download it from another gitrub repo and install it from outside the launcher, but also, a lot of the community that was displeased with the recent push for poorly implemented realism on CDDA just moved to Cataclysm: Bright Nights fork, and that fork includes the UndeadPeople Tileset as a option by default.
Its a shame how much community drama fractures and splinters what would otherwise be a great game. the fact of the matter is what CDDA is viewed as by its players and in general public perception vs how the developers see it as, is very different. and this ends up impacting end users down stream. even if your a pocket lover (like me) or a pocket hater, a stomach volume appreciator or stomach volume despiser, theres always something about CDDA that makes people interested, but then so much else that drives them away. maybe it will get better in the future, but i kinda doubt it; itd probably require a new community growing around a seperate fork with a passionate dev team, and those are rare.
@@Chambs_15 Since this is a history video I'll clarify some points: - UDP was removed in a large batch with several other well-loved tilesets including the granddaddy Chesthole because they all shared a source. A minecraft tile was the first clue but once people started digging, there were a huge number of problematic tiles, some from people known to get litigious around that stuff. Kevin requested SDG look into removal but he wasn't interested, so the set had to be taken from mainline along with most of the other popular tilesets of the era until someone had the time to go through them carefully (which eventually did happen). - Later, and afaik unrelated, there was drama with the maintainer of the UDP tileset, who demanded he be banned from the community. Literally, he came into the discord forum drunk-posting and asked to be banned, as I'm sure he'd tell you if asked. While I wouldn't say any of the active devs at the time were his friends, he also doesn't operate in any of the same communities as we do, and most of us barely knew him and were mostly just bemused. - UltiCa was under slow development for a long time prior to this, but was put in as an alternative because at the time, there really wasn't anything else. Most of the existing tilesets had to be taken down. RetroDays, the only other functional tileset, remained the default until UltICa had left beta. - Eventually, the problematic tile history was removed and the original tileset that spawned UDP, the MSXotto+ set, was added back to mainline and remains a very popular option, as does the MSX/ultica fusion "chibi ultica". - I have no idea what you're talking about with theawesomeboophis. I've never seen any dev speak ill of him or really speak about him at all; he seems fine, and his repo is up here: github.com/Theawesomeboophis/UndeadPeopleTileset - I encourage fans of UDP who don't care about art sourcing issues to check it out, as well as the MSX+ branch in mainline that maintains a similar style. There's plenty of drama in the community, and even in this specific story, without having to make up new stuff... and especially no need to claim animosity around people who are getting along just fine. Cheers, Erk
So happy CDDA is getting some of the love it deserves. I always wanted a customizable "realistic" zombie apocalypse game where I could do literally anything I could think possible. The first time I tore the curtains off the wall, tossed it at a group of zombies, and then lit it on fire with a disposable lighter I knew I had found my game.
@@kunknown2340 Haha nah, I wielded the curtain offa the wall and threw it on a zombie. I started a fire with the lighter through the % action menu and circled around it till the zombie caught on fire. Though this was on an earlier version, you might need to use tinder to pull this trick off now, not totally sure.
Catasclysm ( and Dark Days Ahead) is one of my favorite zombie games ive ever played, ever since july 2011( its been that long, im old ) thats when PlumpHelmetPunk uploaded his first video on it in the "roguelike megamix" playlist! seeing all those names in the discription like JefMajor (aka One F jef) brings me a bunch of fond nostalgia im glad that C:DDA is still being updated and a whole "new" bunch of contentcreators/LPers still make videos on it ( Rycon & Vormitax spring to mind) Sincerely thank you for this history retrospective Archbishop Wex, keep up the good work
it brings a smile to my face to see Vorm still grinds DDA on a daily basis. also greatly appreciated to see creators like TheMurderUnicorn making guides/tip videos over the last year. Vorm's university videos were the best, but it doesn't take long for a tutorial to become outdated with a game like Cata
@@Pvtpob Jef is "retired" & Plump has recently made a rimworld series around when Dwarffortess got its steam release, theres a chance he will make DF content but is waiting for some features on that release
Sseth introduced me to CDDA and I've been playing on and off for years now, and I've only just gotten into vehicle modding. I hope the development continues for years to come.
your channel is severly underrated. deep dives into some of the best games ever with cdda, ss13 and dwarf fortress? that alone makes you a top tier channel
Fantastic summary. One thing I would have brought up is more of the media around the game. While you mentioned the popular mechanics article, I think that Sseth's review and aavak's let's play brought a lot more people into the community, though I don't have any hard data for that at all.
As someone that played the game before Seth's video, it was insane the amount people that came flooding in. It was a bit worrisome at first but most people were chill and even less stayed after a few months
I started playing cataclysm dark days ahead for 6 years now all thanks to Sseth tzeentach and im currently trying to figure how to code so i could make a mod for the game plus i fucking love this game so much
Both were great,i personally prefer C:DDA though but still there is also quite an fun in C:BN and there is no way you can't skip the fun of becoming an Cyborg Assassin of C:BN.
@@guidedexplosiveprojectileg9943 Nah, expedition truck is no van, it's a truck, and mine is 10m long. You can see the video P20m3Jvc56k for the drawing
Thank you for updating me on CDDA. It's one of my favourite games. Question: can you link to the live action videos you put in the beginning? I found them very fun back then but later I could not find them.
CDDA is a game that I've been obsessing over lately, the blob lore with the other entities in the game are really fun, one of the best games out there, (once you get past the interface if you havent played these type of games before lol)
Really refrigerators were available since 0.A? I thought it was something developed later (C?) with minifridges. Btw, I may have misunderstood since english is not my first language.
I'd love to see the game get the dwarf fortress steam release treatment, but given its kind of chaotic development i can see why that might be problematic.
Nothing about Cataclysm Bright Nights split and the infighting after .G, Nothing about Kevin co-opting the entire project. Nothing about everyone and their mother hating the inventory system that was shoved down our throats.
@@NikoSarfo You also want to ignore Kevin threatening Bright Nights with legal action when threatened with the same for failing to properly attribute all contributors?
The analysis/commentary part was good but the skit at the beginning made me feel like I stepped out of a time machine into 2004 era Spoony One video and not in a good way
Hey thanks for the video. The early days info was interesting but I felt you stop talking history and started reading patch notes by the end of the video. More interesting than change notes IMHO were the roll over in music and tile set people. You didnt mention the various sound pack people at all nor the recent breakup drama of Somedeadguy with the dev team and efforts to replace his tileset with Utica. Early on you hinted at the community divide between sci fi horror simulator vs survival realism and with E/F I think its important to note the survival realism wins with item changes like forks in every cupboard, the removal of carrion bug spawns and the stupid nested pocket system. The developers have reworked the "end game" routes of Bionics, Mutations, and Death mobiles in version F+ changing these pillars of CDDA game play fairly dramatically toward realism or at least complexity. The evolution of labs as CDDA's "dungeons" I also feel deserved more mention along with the Z level of underground tunnels, sewers and subways systems. There is also the big change in the NPC system that started out spawning randomly using the sharing zombie spawn system and now are entirely being found in special locations or quest centers. Finally I'm not sure you gave enough attention to the power of CDDA infinity generating random world. THe really effective random world generator in this game is a masterpiece in replay-ability and the addition to the map like underground tunnels networking cities, rivers, lakes and islands, and even the rework of the forest generator really doesnt get enough mention. The power of the world generator has got to be the #1 difference between this game and other zombie sims. That def comes from its roots as a dwarf fortress/rogue game.
Really good points you bring up. Pinning this because it's a good writeup on the technical advancements. Running into issues with compiling the older versions defintely hindered directly looking into the differences from the earlier versions, and the patch notes definitely have a tendency to just lump additions together.
I'm actually curious. How big was the Somedeadguy drama? I saw it while checking out if the game had any major community drama like SS13, but the reaction I seemed to see was people going "Oh look. Somedeadguy is starting drama over something stupid again. What else is new?"
@@archbishopwex8601 Losing the artist for the tileset most favored by the community in a scorched earth very public drama fest isnt good for anyone. ASCII heritage aside this is a visual game and more players know the name somedeadguy because of the tileset than know the names of the lead contributors to the actual code. There was also underlying suggestion of asset appropriation that tend to go with these things. Visual rebranding is always going to hemorrhage supporters. At the time it really appeared that CDDA was going to have to make major visual change away from a look most player associated with CDDA but "the art department" has landed on it feet and carried on with the assets somedeadguy had built on.
@@archbishopwex8601 I'll try to give you a write up on the SomeDeadGuy drama:
UndeadPeople Tileset was by far the most favored by the community at the time, had much greater quality than anything available at the time.
Meanwhile, Somedeadguy was a somewhat dislike person by the devs, mostly due to his personal beliefs and opinions.
The drama started because it was found that a single image tile was taken from a minecraft mod, and instead of allowing the tileset maker to replace that single image, they decided to say "nah, the whole pack might have images that don't belong to him, lets cut it all off."
Then, "coincidentaly" shortly after, UltiCata tileset was introduced, a tileset made by one of the main devs and was being forced onto the comunity as a replacement, despite being, at that time, of lower quality.
So the community, that was already beginning to be split by the "muh realism" direction that the devs were taken, was divided yet again.
As it stands right now Somedeadguy no longer develops a tileset, but Theawesomeboophis picked up on the project and still maintains it, he also deleted the tileset repo shortly after the drama and disapeared after some very "rude" words were exchanged between him and the developers.
CDDA still treats the UndeadPeople Tileset as a outcast, despite Somedeadguy being gone and the "stolen" image being removed, you gotta download it from another gitrub repo and install it from outside the launcher, but also, a lot of the community that was displeased with the recent push for poorly implemented realism on CDDA just moved to Cataclysm: Bright Nights fork, and that fork includes the UndeadPeople Tileset as a option by default.
Its a shame how much community drama fractures and splinters what would otherwise be a great game. the fact of the matter is what CDDA is viewed as by its players and in general public perception vs how the developers see it as, is very different. and this ends up impacting end users down stream. even if your a pocket lover (like me) or a pocket hater, a stomach volume appreciator or stomach volume despiser, theres always something about CDDA that makes people interested, but then so much else that drives them away. maybe it will get better in the future, but i kinda doubt it; itd probably require a new community growing around a seperate fork with a passionate dev team, and those are rare.
@@Chambs_15 Since this is a history video I'll clarify some points:
- UDP was removed in a large batch with several other well-loved tilesets including the granddaddy Chesthole because they all shared a source. A minecraft tile was the first clue but once people started digging, there were a huge number of problematic tiles, some from people known to get litigious around that stuff. Kevin requested SDG look into removal but he wasn't interested, so the set had to be taken from mainline along with most of the other popular tilesets of the era until someone had the time to go through them carefully (which eventually did happen).
- Later, and afaik unrelated, there was drama with the maintainer of the UDP tileset, who demanded he be banned from the community. Literally, he came into the discord forum drunk-posting and asked to be banned, as I'm sure he'd tell you if asked. While I wouldn't say any of the active devs at the time were his friends, he also doesn't operate in any of the same communities as we do, and most of us barely knew him and were mostly just bemused.
- UltiCa was under slow development for a long time prior to this, but was put in as an alternative because at the time, there really wasn't anything else. Most of the existing tilesets had to be taken down. RetroDays, the only other functional tileset, remained the default until UltICa had left beta.
- Eventually, the problematic tile history was removed and the original tileset that spawned UDP, the MSXotto+ set, was added back to mainline and remains a very popular option, as does the MSX/ultica fusion "chibi ultica".
- I have no idea what you're talking about with theawesomeboophis. I've never seen any dev speak ill of him or really speak about him at all; he seems fine, and his repo is up here: github.com/Theawesomeboophis/UndeadPeopleTileset - I encourage fans of UDP who don't care about art sourcing issues to check it out, as well as the MSX+ branch in mainline that maintains a similar style.
There's plenty of drama in the community, and even in this specific story, without having to make up new stuff... and especially no need to claim animosity around people who are getting along just fine.
Cheers,
Erk
So happy CDDA is getting some of the love it deserves. I always wanted a customizable "realistic" zombie apocalypse game where I could do literally anything I could think possible. The first time I tore the curtains off the wall, tossed it at a group of zombies, and then lit it on fire with a disposable lighter I knew I had found my game.
When I see curtains .I see homewrecker weapon in my head😊
How did you do that? Did you throw the lighter at them after you lit it up?
@@kunknown2340 Haha nah, I wielded the curtain offa the wall and threw it on a zombie. I started a fire with the lighter through the % action menu and circled around it till the zombie caught on fire. Though this was on an earlier version, you might need to use tinder to pull this trick off now, not totally sure.
Nice to see this in my recommendations 5 minutes after the upload.
i asked for this after Archbishop Wex uploaded his first essay on Dwarf Fortress, happy its finally here
Catasclysm ( and Dark Days Ahead) is one of my favorite zombie games ive ever played, ever since july 2011( its been that long, im old ) thats when PlumpHelmetPunk uploaded his first video on it in the "roguelike megamix" playlist!
seeing all those names in the discription like JefMajor (aka One F jef) brings me a bunch of fond nostalgia
im glad that C:DDA is still being updated and a whole "new" bunch of contentcreators/LPers still make videos on it ( Rycon & Vormitax spring to mind)
Sincerely thank you for this history retrospective Archbishop Wex, keep up the good work
it brings a smile to my face to see Vorm still grinds DDA on a daily basis. also greatly appreciated to see creators like TheMurderUnicorn making guides/tip videos over the last year. Vorm's university videos were the best, but it doesn't take long for a tutorial to become outdated with a game like Cata
Used to watch one f jef and plumphelmetpunk play dwarf fortress. Never thought I’d hear them be mentioned again
@@Pvtpob Jef is "retired" & Plump has recently made a rimworld series around when Dwarffortess got its steam release, theres a chance he will make DF content but is waiting for some features on that release
Jef and Plump got me into so many games I might not of otherwise.. SS13, CDDA, Mount and Blade, DF, Il2 etc etc. Good times back then.
Sseth introduced me to CDDA and I've been playing on and off for years now, and I've only just gotten into vehicle modding.
I hope the development continues for years to come.
Very good summary! It's nice to see all the work we've done presented in such a concise manner.
your channel is severly underrated. deep dives into some of the best games ever with cdda, ss13 and dwarf fortress? that alone makes you a top tier channel
Fantastic summary.
One thing I would have brought up is more of the media around the game. While you mentioned the popular mechanics article, I think that Sseth's review and aavak's let's play brought a lot more people into the community, though I don't have any hard data for that at all.
As someone that played the game before Seth's video, it was insane the amount people that came flooding in. It was a bit worrisome at first but most people were chill and even less stayed after a few months
I started playing cataclysm dark days ahead for 6 years now all thanks to Sseth tzeentach and im currently trying to figure how to code so i could make a mod for the game plus i fucking love this game so much
Bright nights is the best version.
Also i appreciate this history! Especially a lack of focus on the constant bickering between the community
Both were great,i personally prefer C:DDA though but still there is also quite an fun in C:BN and there is no way you can't skip the fun of becoming an Cyborg Assassin of C:BN.
Joined this game in the last moments of 0.C, I’m glad that I am a part of this community.
I am glad to be a part of DDA; just so good
Really liking your work so far dude.
I bet you'll find quite an audience.
CDDA changed my life - i started building self-sufficient expedition truck after playing it
Bro became a van lifer?
@@guidedexplosiveprojectileg9943 Nah, expedition truck is no van, it's a truck, and mine is 10m long. You can see the video P20m3Jvc56k for the drawing
I can’t believe this games free. So much effort put in and so much content.
Super fun, and a bunch of stuff I didn’t know. Love the silly old videos
Thank you for updating me on CDDA. It's one of my favourite games. Question: can you link to the live action videos you put in the beginning? I found them very fun back then but later I could not find them.
You have way too few subs for how good this video is...
This
i started playing when the sseth video came out. and have been going on and off ever since
CDDA is a game that I've been obsessing over lately, the blob lore with the other entities in the game are really fun, one of the best games out there, (once you get past the interface if you havent played these type of games before lol)
Long live CDDA! Proud player since 2014.
Great video, very informative!
Best second game in my book
and the first best game?
i had no idea fast travel was a thing and ive played since 0.C
That intro makes me laugh when I need a chuckle
Really refrigerators were available since 0.A? I thought it was something developed later (C?) with minifridges.
Btw, I may have misunderstood since english is not my first language.
I'd love to see the game get the dwarf fortress steam release treatment, but given its kind of chaotic development i can see why that might be problematic.
Does not CDDA have a Steam version?
YESSS Mobile Cdda got in the video
What is the source of the video in the beginning? I remember seeing it when I first started play cdda, but I can't find it anywhere anymore.
been playing this game since 2013 :D
Quite amazing, you must have a Cataclysm PhD.
Another banger man!
Nice video bro :)
Idk that developer disappearance sounds kinda spooky, hope nothing bad happened to them.
Didn't know there was a Community for Cdda...
you dont want to know
yeah better stay away from it
Neckbeards.
@@FabienLebreton-rd8vbwhy though
@@guidedexplosiveprojectileg9943It's prolly cause devs are fighting over changes.
Game is kinda cool, the community and devs not so much. In an effort to be inclusive they kick anyone out they don't like.
Nothing about Cataclysm Bright Nights split and the infighting after .G, Nothing about Kevin co-opting the entire project. Nothing about everyone and their mother hating the inventory system that was shoved down our throats.
I don't understand why the community likes to fight over dumb things like they're a bunch of 13 year olds.
@@NikoSarfo You also want to ignore Kevin threatening Bright Nights with legal action when threatened with the same for failing to properly attribute all contributors?
Kevin Granade is a massive asshole, that is all there is to it.
@@jeremyreese54 I mean what did i expect from someone that looks like the cousin of Gorlock The Destroyer.
@@NikoSarfo I see civil discussion is impossible.
Nice, been a long time playing this game
What a very well informed video
cool stuff, thanks!
great stuff!
Lovely
The single biggest change for this game was the ability to run, you need it
Breitenberg Park
great game even if dda has had some bad updates recently
The analysis/commentary part was good but the skit at the beginning made me feel like I stepped out of a time machine into 2004 era Spoony One video and not in a good way
I refuse to believe it's pronounced 'Grenade.' I mean, sure, it can be, but i've always read it as "Gra-nah-day"
what about a similar video telling us the lore?
Murazik Glens
Does anyone else play with real time switched on?
do you? i dont
Nope.
@@FabienLebreton-rd8vb should
@@xexzersy yeah it makes it like a real time battle system like FF7
You HAVE to make a comparaison with the second greatest game of all times. Grrrr.
funny game!! (Playin' since 2017!)
Love this game
I can almost play no other game
niiiice
Based
This looks like a cool game, not for me tho