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Sony FX3 X Atomos Ninja | ProRes RAW vs Internal 10-bit Recording | Side By Side Comparison
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 14 ส.ค. 2024
- As promised here's part two of our two-part series as we dive deep into the Sony FX3. In case you missed part-one, here's the link: • Sony FX3 First Impress... .
In part-two, I'm going to talk about the recording format available for the FX3. As I mentioned in the last video we are going to test and compare the XAVCS internal 10-bit 422 against the ProRes Raw 12-bit, enabled using the Atomos Ninja V. I will be sharing what ProRes Raw is and based on first hand experience how to unlock and enable the ProRes Raw format on the FX3, what are the pros and cons of working with this format, some real world comparison footage to compare outputs from both formats and finally, what's the real cost and whether it's worth the investment. Watch till the very end to find out.
___________
Video Index:
0:00 Introduction
1:25 What is ProRes RAW?
2:02 How To Enable ProRes Raw
3:26 Stabilization
4:15 Post Production
4:59 Real World Test
7:24 The Real Cost Of ProRes Raw
8:02 Conclusion
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Keep in mind that when recording externally in RAW, the image does not pass through the camera's noise reduction and this is why the RAW image appears noisier. The benefit is that there is more control over noise reduction in post using RAW. SONY does not provide noise reduction settings for internal recordings on these cameras.
0:50
16Bit LINEAR RAW = 12BIT LOGarithmic RAW.
Some cameras output 12bit Log or 16bit linear. In the case if FX3, it outputs 16bit linear which is converted to 12bit logarithmic.
People really need to understand what these terms mean
This answered a ton of questions. Thanks for posting!
The auto-generated English captions are a hoot!
unfortunately resolve can't read prores RAW entirely because of a stupid corporate battle over who's RAW is better (that's my complete guess but I FEEL its what's happening lol). Why in the WORLD won't resolve open prores raw.... i don't wanna grade in anything else. For that reason... Ive decided to keep shooting the internal 10 bit and its plenty good enough.
The 16-bit that Sony outputs is on a Linear Scale, which corresponds to the 12bit LOG that the ninja V takes. There are currently no cameras existing that go above 12bit LOG.
Came here to say the same thing
you seem knowledgeable on this, I have a question, how do I ensure that I am outputting something in 10-bit or 12-bit? Is that just automatically done? I'm worried that I might shoot in 10 bit and then lose color data upon rendering
@@ZiroWatt RAW output is always 12bit.
@@FabioPansera and this info is kept after any render in something like premier? Or do I have to select a certain codec?
@@FabioPanserano some cameras output 16bit linear which is converted to 12bit log. They're virtually the same thing. Only difference being the way the signal is encoded.
love em bro..just setup my rig for proresraw..really noticed that noise part when it comes to low light for proresraw compared to incamera recording..nway cheers..:3
Great and detailed comparison, thank you for taking the time to share
You are most welcome!
Thanks for the review. I just canceled my atomos order after your video. Too much hassle for little gain. Thank you!
Wow, it's so surprise we have such quality videos produced on Malaysia TH-cam Channel
Keep it up, guys.
you guys are amazing!
Thanks for all the support!!!
Awesome video, waiting on my fx3 and have been debating on this. Thanks for your thoughts!!
You are most welcome !
7:16 you could've gotten a much cleaner image by lowering the shutter speed and keeping the iso at the lowest native ISO/Zero Gain so the signal captured by the sensor could be the highest.
Honest question - aren't comparisons like this a little bit difficult to judge because of the youtube compression?
yes it is but honestly i was able to see the difference between two, specially at 3:20 and 5:03
looks more natural and flat in general imo
Thanks for doing this test. I cant really see a massive difference after the web compression.
Great point!
Prores RAW and working with Sony codecs is pretty good in FCPX.
Hello. Excellent video. One question. I'm still not clear... The Sony fx3 can get a 16 bit signal but the ninga V atoms only records
So the 16-bit signal is mostly marketing. You are correct. Ninja V only records in 12-bit. However, 12-bit log is visually indistinguishable to 16-bit footage, confirmed by the DP journey and Arri themselves. So they kinda fudged numbers (16-bit raw signal which is then encoded in a 12-bit raw file.) for all intensive purposes, this is a powerful raw file. Just not technically 16 bit
I really like your videos. I'm just wondering if it's possible for you to update the closed captions so they are correct because sometimes it's hard to understand some of the things you're saying. Thanks for great content and hope you can do that
Been looking for a video like this, since buying an FX3 my Shinobi no longer works lol, now I have no choice but to get a Ninja V, I need a monitor that can view 4K 60 & 120
Glad I could help!
Excellent production quality and chill music bro🔥🔥
Thank you for the info. One of the best explanation.
Great content Sean. Very informative.
Hi Andre!!!
Thanks ! How are you?😁
Great video! You should have a lot more subscribers.
I kinda wish the comparison was between the intra format and ProRes RAW but helpful video nonetheless. I do think the Ninja is not a worthwhile investment personally for the A7Siii/FX3, and maybe a lower priority for most filmmakers after watching this video.
The color quality improvement is very noticeable with pro res raw vs all the internal codecs outside of TH-cam compression. Also the bigger, sharper screen with waveforms make the ninja worth the 💰.
@@kennethwilliamsinc But you could just buy an Atomos Shinobi. You should not forget that you have to invest in so much more storage in your PC since the Pro Res Raw Files can be 10x bigger than internal files. So a Project that was usually 100 GB could need 1TB of space. An 1 TB Sata SSD costs 100€ here. So sadly Ninja V isnt something for people with not much money
@@Milan-cf1xe if I’m not mistaken, I don’t have my setup in front of me, pro res raw files are neck and neck with All I internal with all the benefits of 12 bit etc. You could always work off the Ninja drive when editing on your PC and archive on a cheaper drive. You don’t need to render the files which will save you a ton in file sizes if you have a good computer.
Smoother prores playback is worth the money and time.
H.265 video editing is a nightmare on post
Is it worth buying the ninja V, hence recording pro res raw for a sony fx30 instead ?
El Atomos Ninja v puede grabar en 16 bits?
One more great video. I like your explanation. Thank you
can you provide raw footage and s-log 3 footage for details checking ?
I have an fx3 camera. Can I record in 16 bit with this device?
The most value of 12-bit ProRes RAW you will get when you need to deliver 10-bit HDR results.
Great video! Respect!
If you want to use the s-cinetone picture profile what exactly would be the steps for that? Not sure if you could help me please
Based on my experience with S-cinetone, you have expose everything right especially the highlight area. My suggestion is to check your exposure meter and try to keep it to 0 or slightly below than 0 👍🏻
@@PlaybyPause and for maximum flexibility highest quality file what codec would you recommend off the ninja ?
Useful comparison, thank you. Can you adjust white balance with ProRes RAW? That would be a nice advantage of ProRes over internal recording.
I believe you can change the white balance if you're FCP user 👍🏻
Does the FX3 always give bad results under in-door light conditions?
Nice review. A couple of questions though, to record 4K Prores Raw, which ssd do you use and when shooting at 12800 ISO Slog when you change it to 10000 ISO in Final Cut do you reintroduce noise to the image because of the dual ISO? Thanks
you're not given raw capabilities like with braw, arri raw or red raw, so you are not capable of adjusting the iso in post per camera iso settings. You will only be able to adjust expsure via the editing softwares standard exposure/correction settings. so in short, no. once you've shot at the base iso of 12800, you're capturing the image at that iso and cannot change it in post
Yes you do have controls and no it doesn’t reintroduce the noise - the second gain still works. That’s why many say to shoot in 12,800 and go down if needed
Great video man, very helpful
hey! wanted to ask what handle you use for the monitor? looking for a simple monitor set up like the one you have. :)
the one that we used is SmallRig 2094 2094C Universal Top Handle with Cold Shoe. You can probably get any top handle that works for you the best👍🏻😊
can I assume the results would be similar on the new A7IV? since the sensor is similar to the FX3...
It’s the same size. Full frame
Does it work with a shinobi
Great video! Very thorough
ISO 640? But native ISO on FX3 is 800. Why do you use 640?
He probably doesn't have the firmware update installed that changes the base ISO from 640 to 800 on the FX3.
@@patrickfalls6819 make sense
Great video! Can you explain your shutter speed choices? You were filming at 30fps, but I noticed your shutter speed was 1/1600, 1/250, etc. and not 1/60. Just curious :)
No ND filter probably and he’s filming outside
Also 180° rule is for rookies
GREAT VIDEO!
When u shoot in RAW u are able to chance the WB right ? This is a big PLUS for me
Yes you are able to change
dang, so i guess its the same, internal 10 bit is cheaper and more easier to use, so stick to 10 bit?
Base on our experience internal 10bit save you some cost and time during filming sbut it consumes extra time in post since you have to convert or create cache for your 422 10bit into something workable ( smooth ) in your editing software. 😬
I guess by end of the day it’s depends on your project and work style ✌🏻
@@PlaybyPause thanks play by play
do you recommend any budget monitors?
@@PlaybyPause or better yet - using the All-I codec and we have all the good stuff at once. Right?
@@CizaEnjoyIt XAVCS-I is amazing and easy to edit in premiere. atomos sucks for such a huge amount of money ...
@@art_means_artificial I think it's a really good investment depending on needs and workflow. It's just not a need for low budget projects. If you can already afford the FX3 or 6, I think it's to be expected to own a render dedicated desktop to drop files for proxy rendering after getting back from shoot. Or a full spec workstation powerful enough to edit it seamlessly.
Thanks for sharing!
What was with that garden hose HDMI cable?
good vid...I think I will stick with SLOG
What is your editing machine?
Premiere pro 🤘🏻
Thank you
But you can *edit* prores in Davinci Resolve, am I missing something?
Unfortunately you couldn’t edit prores raw in Davinci resolve.
Those 2 companies are literally at war with each other. Why would they let you run a competitor's format.
thanks!
thank you
You are most welcome !
why such weird shutter speeds
why are there these missing lines in internal scopes?
Good question but we have no idea .
Feel free to let us know if you have the answer☺️
Anyway we did notice the missing lines seems to be less visible for the prores raw
@@PlaybyPause I too don't know yet, but I noticed that withing my footage, I don't see them in the internal footage, just in the ProresHQ and DNxHR... weird.
Does @AtomosVideo have someting to say?
not really worth it, you lose so gyro data, 120fps 4k, its a bit more noisy in low light situation and a lot more expensive.
I'll stick with 10bit and get a fleeworld f6 cheap screen
atomos sucks for such a huge amount of money ...
The noise is to be expected. Raw mean raw, right off the sensor. Some raw formats are not even debayered yet. Meaning you don't even get a viewable file off the camera. And you have to do all the work yourself. Raw gives flexibility. So if you don't like the internal denoising algorithms, you can use your own plugins. Some studios or production houses may have their own preferred way of denoising. This guy has a full breakdown on raw explanations, far more detailed. th-cam.com/play/PLRSANFg23sxFnYaUxrOMDtqUQ6HU_ehQp.html
XAVCS-I?
Wrong at 4:29 lolz XAV-S is delivery codec which is based on H.265 highly compressed format ...not editing codec.... no any modern CPU can handle H.265/H2.64 even Apple M3 cpu laptop ... editing codec only exist in Gopro CINEform Avid DnxHD and Apple ProRes ....furthermore there's many misleading info in this video.. Apple ProRes is not compressed format
6:00 has a tinner popper?
Tint of purple 😬
Gets a sweet high dynamic range image.....converts it to rec709 lol rip Quality
are u singaporean?
We’re from Malaysia ✌🏻
@@PlaybyPause i wife was right she singaporean
Very hard to understand! Having some problems with prononciation you might speak slower otherwise you're just making a garbage from this amazing video
Thanks for the comment! Will try to improve on that 😬
Sorry for the troll, but as soon as I saw your hdmi cable I stopped watching.
How will he ever recover from this? Smh guy
Slow.... down! Why talk so fast with such a heavy accent? What is the rush? Where is the fire?
You talk way too fast to learn anything from.
raw aint worth it
Hard to understand the bad English . Sorry
It's ok😬
You can try to turn on the subtitle because it translates pretty well
@@PlaybyPause I found you very easy to understand. This was very helpful. Thanks for the detailed comparison.