When a laptop is actually faster than an RTX 3090 GPU... YIKES!
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 21 ก.ย. 2024
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Nobody looks for battery life in a desktop replacement laptop. The battery on these things is essentially just a UPS.
Yep, it doesn't matter at all. You should be using it plugged in because it performs far worse at just about everything without it being plugged in. My trading software lags if I don't plug the laptop in. It turns into a Chromebook if you don't plug it in.
Or bring a portable generator with you.
I only need enough battery life to save all my work and properly shut down my laptop in case of a power outage. I keep a curved ultrawide monitor plugged in, so that has its own power outlet. Some of my guitar gear also requires power outlets. Whether I'm gaming or recording music, I might as well shut it down.
What makes a laptop so perfect for me is if I have to travel. An ice storm took out my power at home, so I brought my laptop to a hotel with me and played games that aren't hardcore simulators like I usually play.
which sucks since there is no standard to cutoff the battery from constant recharging
they will bloat
@@pikkyuukyuun4741 For sure, they will bloat, they all bloat down here.
The naming definitely isn't great, but still really impressive what a portable machine can do this gen vs last gen desktop.
Nice to see the guru of gaming laptop reviews himself here!
If only Nvidia didn't have to make the 4060/4070 so mediocre for laptops this gen while making the 4080/4090 so good but expensive...
Ayyy love your reviews
Jarrod! I'm subscribed to ur channel it's great
Why am I reading this in Jarrods voice.
@@buffcowboy5201 because Jarrod's marketing is on point
I switched our architectural firm's hardware to gaming laptops with docks a little over 8 years ago. Definitely worth the price to give us all flexibility to work away from our desks; home, jobsites, etc. With Framework announcing their swappable GPU module I'm hoping other manufacturers might try to come up with something similar if it sells well.
24 cores that's more cores then an amd ryzen laptop now man that's a beast of a laptop you should buy it now!!!!!
yeh i like how there dooing there upgradeable gpu, makes more sense that way.
😢😮😮
@@raven4k998 Ryzen is in the same league performance wise though depending on the workload. Better performance per watt.
@Raven4K they're fake p cores and e cores tho. That "24 core" cpu is still only 32 thread which is what AMD's 16 core CPUs offer
because Jay forgot to mention the price; the base model is $2754 for i9-13900HX, RTX 4080(M), 1440p@240Hz, 16GB DDR5@4800MHz and 512GB Storage; the model that Jay has is $4078 which is i9-13900HX, RTX 4090, 2160p@144Hz, 64GB DDR5@4800MHz, 1TB boot drive and 2TB main drive
Yes, yes, let's go with that... he forgot 😂
@@jellygoo 4 years ago, I was able to score a different rebadge with a 8750h, 16gb of ram, a 512 NvME WD Black boot drive that came with 1 other NvME slot and a 2.5" bay, a 2070 and a 15" 1080p 144hz screen with G-sync for $1399. Obviously lower specced, and it also didn't have thunderbolt but it did have DP. So different re-badgers will spec differently at different pricepoints. I'm running it with an external 24" 144hz 1080p with zero issues, 32gb ram, 512/1tb/2tb, undervolted and max turbo and it's solid as a rock. I think my upgrades were like $300 or so total. Maybe $400. Plus the monitor but that was less than $200. You don't have to hit the highest pricepoint. And if he used Throttlestop, he would have gotten much higher results in testing, and then throw a good cooling pad under there, and he would have seen probably the same temps but without a throttling CPU.
Yup. To get the specs he mentioned, you get your 40 series for 40 hundreds.
@@eboethrasher uh, ok?
Saw that, great laptop but Holy shit it's expensive as hell
Even 5 years ago a laptop with that kind of power draw capability would have been 2” thick or more.
But I like em *T H I C C*
@@aaz1992 I like the way the AIO idea was implemented by eluktronics.
@@rekareaper yes. Pretty neat
Move the bulk into the cable, ez marketing win
Yeah, I have an asus rog gl742vw with something like a nvidia 970 and some intel i7 something something from like 2016, and it's running strong. It's almost 2" thick. I use it mainly for music and saving documents for work. It still plays games pretty well, too.
Also Jay was running all this, with the laptop FLAT on the table. Pretty impressive. The thermal designs ASUS, MSi, Alienware, and Lenovo have come a long way. Thermal pastes, Vapor Chambers, multiple fans and chassis design to steer the temperatures into manageable territory.
Indeed I remember when laptops would start throttling really hard if you didn't have it sitting on one of those cooling fan stand things
Yeah but what was the run time? I doubt it was more than 1 maybe maximum 2 hours. I understand laptops have their place, but it will easily overheat and start lagging if you play more than 2 hours, so I don't really find this impressive but we've come a long way and maybe laptops won't be that bad in the future
@@miuletzmitzu6641 I can't speak for all laptops and cheaper ones do have this problem but my Alienware (cant think of the model name atm) has never overheated or throttled at least not in any way I can tell and I've ran games on it all day. Though it is worth mentioning that I run it in balanced and do a slight undervolt. I grew up on laptops and I know all too well about how you'd have to buy coolers/fans prop them up on books etc to make it not throttle itself to nothing but I have not had to do any of that on my Alienware laptop
My current workstation is a Xeon Thinkpad from 2019. I bought one of these. Part of what sold me was the existence of the 3rd NVME slot, which I wouldn’t have known about without the video. Thanks for the video, Jay.
How do u like it?
Those rear connectors are definitely a win if you're gonna be using this as a desktop replacement, waiting for a torture test of how long the crew can have the laptop sitting on their laps during a benchmark before we reach crew-jmax, a chart would be nice 👍
Having a old bulky high-end laptop my general advice is always get a cooling stand.
Iv got a good one that can fit over my lap with the adjustable legs supporting it.
I honestly haven’t even bothered to plug in its fans as unlike your lap it doesn’t block the intakes.
@@nathnathn fun fact: the term "laptop" doesn't mean PUT IT ON YOUR LAP... it means it's PORTABLE. the fans need to breathe to cool it. I always have mine on a cooling stand and most times don't use the fans in the stand either.
The rear connectors are indeed awesome. Can testify.
@@XxTWMLxX I've gotten used to have balancing 18 pounds of hot metal on legs. :P
Yeah that’s the design flaw of the MSI Titan GT77HX, everything connects on the side. Better thermals though.
Could you incorporate laptop cooling stands in future laptop reviews, or just do laptop cooling stand reviews occasionally?
I'm curious at how effective they are at cooling down a laptop.
I have an iets gt300s cooling pad and it lowers temps by 10-20 degrees. so, I can confirm that they do work, very well. as long as you buy the right cooling pad that acually works, they do make a very substantial difference
@@mikediezel0923 That's good to hear, but I bet that the same can't be said for all cooling pads out there. Just like how one CPU generation is better than the other, or sometimes the same or even worse, one cooling pad could be better than the next or vice-versa. And I bet that for many laptop users out there, being able to know prior to purchasing cooling pads which ones to buy and which ones to stay away from would be a very welcome thing to know before having spent money on a cooling pad.
@@John_1920 The problem with trying to do reviews for those pads, is it's going to be very dependent on how a given laptop has its vents setup. The pad that Mike above used, for example, might make a 10-20 degree difference on his laptop, while on 5 other common laptop designs it might only give a 5 degree difference.
You've also got to take into account what hardware is in a given laptop. A good cooling pad on the laptop from this video is probably going to give you a much higher difference than on a laptop that has an older 10-series GPU.
There's significantly more subjective difference for a given cooling pad, compared to the normal benchmark tests you can run for various types of other hardware.
@@AeriFyrein I am well aware of all of that, yet you seem to forget that Jay uses an open air test bench, and doesn't to a lot of in-the-case testing, so the same thing you just said about cooling pads could also be applied to testing cpu coolers or fans on the open air test bench, or even if he does it inside a case, because cases are also different, just like you said cooling pads are, and some cases would provide greater air flow and cooling than others.
@@John_1920 That is partially true, except for one thing: even on an open-air bench, the cooler is *directly* attached to the CPU, and thus has direct heat transfer between the CPU and heatsink. Even if that means that various cases would provide different levels of cooling, as long as all tests are done in relatively the same ambient temperature, it'll provide a much more well-defined baseline difference regardless of any other factors.
Laptop cooling pads, on the other hand, are completely external. Not only would they be affected by a given laptops vent design, but also the internal placement of various components.
In addition to that, when Jay or another reviewer do tests on different components, they tend to try and keep a consistent set of other hardware for the tests, at least for as long as is practicable; their test benches don't get part-swapped every other week. Laptops, being significantly less modular, would have much more of a problem for that. Yes, they could keep 4 or 5 specific models around to test cooling pads with, but it would still provide much higher variance on average.
I'm not saying that it would be impossible to do. I'm sure there are reviewers out there that do test laptop cooling pads. Considering some of the hoops the bigger places have to jump through for all the *other* hardware they test, though, it's probably not the best use of their time to add another product type.
You're also probably forgetting that many of these reviewers already tend to get a lot of hate mail when people buy products based on their reviews, and those products don't give them the same results as in the reviews. Reviewing a product type that could give such a huge variance on results could lead to a lot of extra mail of that sort, and they likely don't want to bother with that much extra trouble. It's a ton of extra work, for very little gain.
My son who is currently pursuing a dual major in engineering and computer science has moved to a desktop replacement with a triple monitor setup (2 27" at 1080pand a main 27" at 1440p) and loves the portability mixed with the power to play triple A titles and handle any cad software. The bonus is he can bring it with him to his IT/CAD job that he works full time
The reason MSI Afterburner doesn't show 4090's usage and temperature, I think is that when you ran MSI Afterburner, the 4090 was in sleep mode so if you wake it up by for example a game and then run MSI Afterburner it can monitor those things.
your scientists were to busy worrying about whether or not they could they didn't both worry about whether or not they should🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣
@@raven4k998 what
@@raven4k998 huh
@@raven4k998 huh
He could have run HWinfo or the Nvidia Inspector, too.
11:30 That CRT is like, "cool flatscreen, bro. Lotsa tech, but you're 30 years away from matching my motion performance"
30 years away?
More like a century away lol.
Rog-Oh. I have an Alienware X17 R1 - replacing my 5 year old Alienware 15 R2 that lets me do pretty much anything I do on my desktop. It is the only power machine I own because my wife is ill and gets chemo a few times a year for her autoimmune disease. This way I can game or create in the living room and still be near by if she needs me. The plus is that my recliner is more comfortable than any desk chair... lol
I bought my first laptop last year. 12900HX - 32GB DDR5 and a 3070ti but man its awesome. I have 3 higher-ish end PCs and the laptop keeps up with them anywhere I go.
I've had a gaming laptop for about six months now and it's, by far, the best purchase I've made. At the same time I upgraded my desktop computer for roughly $2,500 I bought a $1,000 gaming laptop (this was about two years of saving up, so don't think I'm just dropping loads of cash for the funsies). I was expecting to spend about 4k on my desktop, but things got cheaper, some deals were made, which left me money for a laptop.
Here's the beauty of a laptop. I can watch movies with my wife on the couch, then if she goes to bed or whatever, I just fire up a game for a half hour or so. That makes a *huge difference* in how much gaming time I get. It sits in my living room, the hub of my home, and in two minutes I'm in a game. And if something comes up, save and close the lid. Done.
If I know I'm going to get a gaming weekend, yeah, straight to the desktop. But if that wasn't an option, I doubt I'd miss a beat. Not everyone's gaming situation is equal, but for me, I'll likely consider a laptop before I upgrade my desktop again (in like, seven years).
I think this is a very common scenario for adults that game.
Family matters come up, you work more, might have kids and you want to spend time with your partner. Gaming laptops, handhelds such as a switch or a deck are tailor made for people with a busier life
Personally, I got a laptop as a main rig and a steam deck as a back up. Not far off from what you have
That laptop performs great as a desktop replacement. The next improvement they need to do is to make the base come off more easily. I clean my dust filters on my tower every 2 weeks, I can see, undoing 8 screws every 2 weeks will get tiring. The older Thinkpad laptops had release latches for their lids, they should implement something like that for the base and get rid of the screws.
The difference between desktop and laptop always comes down to power draw and TDP. Desktops are measured at 500~600 watts of power, laptops are usually in the 90~250 range with the larger ones needing massive power bricks. Any technology that would enable high performance at low wattage, would also enable massive performance gains at high wattage. Portable notebooks are useful, we just need to understand and accept their limitations.
Oh and Clevo's are awesome, amazing platforms that are semi-standardized and possess the ability to have BIOS modifications and graft on a ton of components. Can even swap out GPU's using the MXM formfactor, just be careful to keep cooling and powerdraw within the system specification.
Fast yes, but Nvidia made the expensive 4080/4090 the only worthwhile cards this gen.
They basically neutered the 4060/4070 for both laptops and desktops when it comes to value for $ as a result.
A $1300 3070Ti laptop pretty much matches a $2000 4070 laptops minus frame gen.
You have to spend minimum $2500 for a 4080 laptop or around $3400 for a 4090 to get a meaningful performance boost....
or they probably assume people who looking to get a 4070 or lower will never look at anything higher spec'd
AMD heat soul is getting into Nvidia
I'm still on the 2080.
True. Look for deals on 4080 laptops. I found one for $1990
Forced market segmentation at work, and Nvidia will push that strategy with their upcoming releases which will be DOA.
Ask repair shops what breaks very often in laptops because of high temps. No not the silicon that can handle it just fine, it's actually the heatpipes that stop working after some years. So yeah the silicon is designed to run that hot that does not mean it's good for other things in laptops. Also measurements are always done at 20C room temperature. I don't live somewhere hot but even here it will be around 30C in summer and in places like India or somewhere else close to the equator 40C is a cool day. The number of times that i had a 2nd hand laptop that i wanted to refurbish and needed a new cooler (repaste and cleaning did nothing) are way higher that most people think it is. Most say get the dust out and it's fine, well many times it isn't fine.
I would like manufacturers to add in their descriptions if more storage and/or memory can be added. My current laptop only has one nvme, and I've seen some that had the drive connectors removed. Another downside would be the upgrade path in general. I personally love having a laptop and use it almost every day. But it sucks that if a part goes bad or even outdated, you are at the mercy of finding someone to fix it if you don't know how or just buying a new one.
😂😂 0:16 you burned me right there.. fine I'll stop dissing those with laptops..
I just got the Alienware M18 with same specs as posted last month. GPU is great, and can monitor its GPU temps, cpu was a bit weaker than I had hoped. But comparing it to my old M18x R2 from 2013, the new one is smaller, but has a much better airflow design. Laptop advancements are stellar. Fun seeing them side by side with a 10 year gap.
Being able to take your gaming computer anywhere is amazing. Don't hate cause your giant PC can't leave the house.
Honestly I'd much prefer a thicker laptop like my old 2007 Dell PP22X, at least 2x the thickness of my new Asus laptop, but my opinion is mainly due to the fact that they could put more into it with the modern tech that we have now
I think I still have it stashed away in a drawer somewheres, last I knew it only needs a battery/charger?
They do exist so you could get one of those. It's just that super thick laptops do not sell so the industry has trended towards around 1.2in or thinner for laptops
Yeah I know, idk I'd love to modernize my old laptop but from what I've been told I'd be difficult/impossible to do, although I'm not very technical savvy
@@Murphyslaw1192 It would be basically impossible to get it anywhere close to modern laptop speeds. You'd be best off buying a last generation 30 series if you're on a budget as they are plenty fast still.
IIRC, MSI still makes a megachonk no-compromise thick laptop that will hit better numbers at the expense of less battery life and less portability.
That would be an IDEAL laptop to test a nice variety of laptop cooling solutions to see if there is a benefit single fan ones multi fan ones or if just getting a stand to get it more "clean" airflow under it and so on???
What a fantastic laptop. I have an MSI Katana and I love how powerful it is for a gaming laptop. I even edit, make music and more with it. So its nice to see a top performer for a laptop like this one. Stay amazing Jay and gang ^_^
I have this laptop. Depending on your reseller who might provide a custom fan curve in the EC, but if not, you’ll want to create one, because this beast is loud by default. The BIOS is seriously restricted by Clevo. Folks have been observing significant variances i performance seemingly due to thermal throttling, issues with the factory applied thermal paste most likely. If you are on the fence I suggest getting one that’s has been repasted.
Thermal design is so so. Fans are too small in my opinion and radiators too. It gets hot under the keyboard (right from the middle)and very hot above the keyboard. But there is no space anywhere at this size. So you would have needed an 18" and/or "thicker" system or you would have had to sacrifice SSD slots or connectivity.
Some quirks such as a Thunderbolt dock not coming up after reboot when plugged in.
This laptop could benefit from undervolting, alas you can’t turn off the under volt protection as long as there is no modded BIOS.
i think amd for cpu it would be better cause their power consumption is less than intel making it more eficient for laptops and also good for work and for gaming
I really wish something like this existed when I was in college (2004) or even in my first apartment - I spent more on a desktop for gaming, and a laptop for class notes / projects that was probably the same weight as this thing at the time.
Jay - Support your reasons
Math Teacher - Show your work
subjective - laptops sucks: low upgrade path. small display. not a true desktop replacement.
reality - laptops are mobile. try to fit your desktop (I MEAN EVERYTHING, power suply, power draw into 1 or 2 inches thick). I mean come on if your gonna bash a laptop travel with a desktop and tell me laptops suck. During travel i game (doom, Civ 6), watch movies (on laptop and streaming). do work. i also bring a travel monitor that is thiner and lighter than my laptop.
i dont see you toting around a full tower with AIO water cooling, 38 inch ultrawide (even multiple) at an airport.
Hey Jay, not sure if you did this (You probably did given your experience so take no offense in me suggesting such a basic thing), however some monitoring software can only detect the GPU temperature AFTER it is already running since it is usually completely disabled in laptops before booting up a game. Had this experience with my AERO 16 xe4, afterburner won't show GPU temps unless I open it after starting up a game. ANyways, worth a shot (even tho you probably already considered it). I also love high power laptops, the portability helps a lot those of us that don't stay around at one home, go to gf's, or go to uni and have intensive uni work. Sometimes also just chilling at uni and you'll have 30 minutes you can play something yk
Yep. Integrated graphics are being used without the game running so the GPU temp and power utilization options in Afterburner won’t show up for the dGPU. Either turn on Afterburner after the game launches or put the laptop into dGPU mode.
He also tested this laptop with it sitting flat on the surface, which... Clevos have sortof a design flaw for years, as there is intake on the bottom, and there isn't enough space for the fans to suck efficiently enough, so it hurts the cooling. The tests in this entire video are flawed because of that alone. You HAVE to prop Clevos up off the surface or else you'll take a like 10° hit in cooling which hurts everything else. Smh he screwed this one up.
@traderupthablock - I can’t tell if your joking, but you can’t prop up a laptop to get more air during benchmarking. That would not be a fair test of the laptop as designed. You could run a couple tests like that to show folks the difference it makes, but your main tests should be in stock configuration in a standard arrangement.
I use my gaming laptop during the week to run TH-cam/stream shows beside my workstation while I'm working at home. I only use it for gaming if I travel with it, but it has been very handy. I intermittently spend weeks at a time with my family who lives in another state, so it's nice to have the option to game when I'm away from my desktop. Battery life is only a concern on the rare occasion that my flight is more than 3 hours and my seat doesn't have an outlet. Fan noise can be an issue of course, but I dust it out every 5-6 months, I replaced the thermal paste for the gpu, and I set the curve to be lower when it's not being pushed.
The GPU in this laptop should really be called the RTX 4080M, but I'm not a greedy, deceitful and shortsighted corporate executive.
I would take a trade off of slightly thicker if it means it can be cooled better.
I would like to point out to turn off the RGB animation on the keyboard. There is some cpu usage wasted on that, which can add to temps.
yeah cause then it will last longer and since a rtx 4090 run hotter then the sun thicker is better
@Raven4K gaming laptops are 0.9" thick now. Nothing thick even on these loaded models. If they could make a standardized bottom (even just brand specific), that can give an owner the option of getting a bigger bottom and upgraded cooling.
@@olandersnake yeah they need to go back to being as thick as they used to for longer life due to better cooling that can be packed in to the larger size form factor think about it
I mean why have gpu's gotten thicker if not for more cooling
@Raven4K I'm with you on that. I have a laptop cooler that basically lives under my laptop. Combined with the laptop, it is 2 inches thick. I have the LTT backpack, and it all fits in there perfectly in the laptop portion. Would a thicker laptop be heavier? Yes, but only by a little bit. You could have the same number of heat pipes that aren't flattened as well as wider blower fans pushing more air through taller aluminum fins. This wouldn't cool the laptop more, but instead help hit better boost clocks. Like when Jay ran Cinebench, and it dropped to 3.2GHz. It might hold a higher boost, getting workloads done faster, which people using this for actual work would appreciate.
@@olandersnake These are fairly think, that was his point. I've got one, they are not that thin, compared to ones i've seen. He needed to undervolt the CPU and set it to run at Turbo speeds so it wouldn't throttle on him, even if it ran at similar speeds he would not have had a performance problem. It's a program called Throttlestop. Ryzen CPUs don't have this problem, only Intel, and they have had it for multiple generations now. And FFS the tiny bit of cycles a fucking 12 core cpu spends on RGB is nothing to worry about. You can set it to be static RGB, on a per key basis. He wasn't going to do that for a test.
constantly having to clean the cooling fins to keep it running 100% should be made so easy that my grandma can do it in a few minutes.
sadly its not in the interest of companies to do so.
Honestly, if Nvidia made a Small version of their GPU extension, which to be a third (1/3, or one part out of 3 parts, for basic 'muricans) of the size of the version for their currently-latest laptop, I think a lot more laptop manufacturers would choose to use that one to allow people to upgrade the GPU in their laptop, even if only to stay competitive, and maybe make a spinoff with different height heatsinks.
Also, making a dual-thunderbolt or dual-USB-C externa GPU enclosure, which to use another 1 or 2 USB C ports for charging from a standard powerbrick with 2 cables, would be a great idea, even if you add the powerbrick (power source) part into the enclosure, and make it more-or-less the size of a 5" HDD. Imagine that, a 5" HDD-sized external GPU for any laptop, even if it needs a custom driver to use two different USB-C ports, or an USB-C and USB 3 port.
I think those two things are on a matter of build-it-and-they-will-come, in terms of users and other laptop manufacturers using them. And I think that FrameWork are in the perfect position to make such a product, and become vastly popular because of it. Unless other laptop manufacturers do that sooner, which I very much doubt it, because they think they have more to lose than they have to gain, from obsoleting many of their other products, but ignoring that they will also obsolete the competition, too.
I would love to see this hardware inside of a much thicker laptop like an Acer Predator Helios 500, where it would keep a desktop Ryzen 7 2700X and desktop Vega 56 under 70° C with the fans barely spinning.
Not so fun fact: Clevo is not for right to repiar, just look at their manuals. I learned this the hard way with my Eurocom Sky X9C.
Thanks for this Jay. I have slowly converted over the last 5 years or so to becoming a laptop advocate. As they have become more powerful in recent years I really believe they have a place. I have just decommissioned my old desktop home PC and moved its functionality to a laptop for portable work/email/take on holidays etc. I find it very convenient to sit on the couch in the evenings watching TV and checking on email. I have also just built a new gaming desktop rig and as part of that I was inspired by your recent Sensor panel videos and my original plan was to put a panel in my new gaming case, but I have now changed that to an externally mounted unit using a stand I found on eBay. I followed along this video of yours just now by repeating your tests on my new rig with the panel connected and I was able to see GPU temp. Maybe you could build an external/portable panel that you can just connect to any system you are benching, including laptops like this, and get a consistent display of stats. Its obviously a bit more primitive than your very nicely done windowed install, but its also way more portable and flexible ! Just thinking out loud !!
"When a laptop is actually more expensive than a kidney..."
As cool as the specs are, I went to Origin's site and built this exact laptop. It costs OVER FOUR THOUSAND DOLLARS. Meanwhile, my laptop I picked up for 900 bucks as an open box special to take with me on the go is a rough equivalent to my desktop. Desktop system is a R5 5600x, 16gb ddr4, and a 6700xt, laptop is a i7-12650h, 16gb ddr5, and a mobile 3070. I got an Intel/Nvidia setup just to see how things are on the other side of the fence. They push similar framerates at 1080 with cranked settings on the major games I play(Destiny 2 and Cyberpunk mostly). Could I run 1440 on my desktop system? Sure, if I wanted to throw out my perfectly good 1080 panel and buy a 1440 one. At the size of my laptop's screen(15"), 1080 looks really good, plus I can push numbers higher running DLSS. Don't get me wrong, this Origin laptop is pretty damn cool, but holy CRAP that's a lot of money.
Yeah and for a laptop that is actually slower than other laptops with rtx 4090's in them and laptops that in general have at least better temperatures and don't bottleneck the gpu. Don't get my wrong I would have gladly paid the money for a good clevo laptop this year but this is definitely not it.
If you'd spec an Origin desktop with similar components (4070 Ti instead of 4090 mobile), you would arrive at the same price as this laptop with a 1440p screen instead of the 4K.
When you compare apples to apples - this laptop is a great deal!
It depends on your needs and budget most people do not need a 4k laptop just need something to travel with
@@Kibirotubas yeah the money is wasted on the 4k screen and the 4090. Also, Intel has a problem with the way Turbo is implemented in relation to temperature in laptops, that you have to do a workaround to make sure it doesn't throttle. Throttlestop, a small program, is your best friend with an Intel gaming laptop.
I travel a lot and have a 3050ti laptop (definitely not as nice 😂) I could’ve built a 3060 desktop for the same price and had much better performance, but being able to stick my laptop in my bag and fly across the country without worrying about fragile parts is a huge plus. I can easily run MW2 at 90-100fps with low/medium setting, and other games like Minecraft, Halo, Forza, and Destiny 2 all run great as well with medium setting at 1080p. While I’m home I just keep it plugged in and under my monitor stand so I can use it like a normal desktop! Definitely recommend getting a cooling pad if you do get a laptop though. The fans are a bit loud, but with my headset on I don’t even notice it.
Hi Jayz, you might wanna rerun some tests while disabling turbo in windows registry. I did that on my Lenovo Legion 7 with 5900hx and 3080. I didnt hurt gaming performance at all.
The cpu temps dropped massively from around 95 degrees to 68 and my gpu started to run faster because there was more thermal headroom. It was more silent too!
The turbo is nice for benchmarks, but it's that last part of performance that costs more power, diminishing returns.
For me the results were amazing and I've never felt the need to enable turbo again.
Hi there, sounds very promising, would you please explain how to disable turbo, having some temps issue on my Aero 16 2022 with 12700H and RTX 3070Ti. Thanks heaps!
I can only guess based on the the little information I had watching this video that cyberpunk was probably running on the Igpu when you put the laptop in silent mode. My asus Zephyrus G14 does the same thing with a few tittles but with the armory crate software I can force it to use the dedicated gpu.
Have you ever thought of testing laptop cooling tray or docking station? or possibly even building a home built laptop docking station with built in cooling fans and extra usb ports? i think that would make a cool video that you probably only need to do once lol
Using a second camera, then sticking your hands in front of it 80% of the time... Well that was just brilliant
If only there was another way...
Great video. I would like to note that temps are not an issue on laptops or mobile devices at all. Since dennard scaling stopped in early 2000s, all mobile form factors are what we describe as power limited from an architectural design point of view, so for max perf you let it operate at tJMax, this is very normal and has been for decades now. You'd be surprised how many phones behave like this too, its just not obvious because their power budgets are even less, at some point desktops will hit this limit too as the transistors get smaller, might already be seeing signs of it with Zen 4 CPUs where the chip hits its Tjmaxx, limiting the max power it can consume at a lower level compared to Intel on a less dense node
yes but with Intel CPUs you have to set them with a program called Throttle stop, because they are set to throttle back from Turbo speeds once you cross a temperature delta. Running Throttlestop, you can a) undervolt the CPU to get more temperature headroom and b) set it to run constantly at a turbo speed multiplier so it doesn't throttle. It runs at similar temperatures, in spec, and never gives you a problem when gaming. If the temps are too high, knock back the turbo speed bottom end some, or make it constant at that turbo speed. Or try for a more stable lower undervolt if possible. That's where Intel has screwed up with their Turbo implementation vs temperatures.
I swapped to laptop 4 years ago because of job occupancy, and im glad i did, power consumpsion for performance is incredibly less.
And the performance of mine is great. The laptop itself feels abit fragile is my only gripe.
Tip for laptop users, if you remove the battery for the laptop and just plug in the power supply, your performance will drastically increase, aswell do note that if laptops start decreasing in performance it could be the power supply, you might need a new one.
Jay, Gaming PCs are really good at programming performance, considering using Nvidia support for data science, also Intel from 10th gen improving performance of python Pandas library with so little change on your python code. so its not only for editing, rendering and office type of perfomance. I use my gaming PC for data science, Neural network model training and general programming, I think its worth mentioning for developers out there.
I'm sad to say I just returned m brand-new Origin Laptop...just 1 week and the LCD panel started bleeding in the corners. I asked for a refund because the customer service was terrible. They messed up my support ticket so many times I was disappointed by the mix-up. They even sent me the wrong shipping label twice. Customer service is everything. You may have the best product out there, but if customer service is lacking, it makes no sense.
Nice to see Jay covering some gaming laptops. Should be on the lookout for ones with the amazing Ryzen 4 Dragon Range which maul intel in terms of efficiency (particularly relevant for gaming laptops), and overall have the performance crown as well. It can and should be Undervolted as well for maximum performance and better temps as well (Intel 13th gen Hx processors can also be Undevolted, and desperately need it).
please excuse my ignorance, but I feel like people have been saying AMD will "maul" intel in terms of efficiency for years now...
I have to agree on the "too expensive" Side of gaming laptops, however, if there's upgradeability, then I think it's worth it.
Impressive but they should label it a RTX 4080M or something like this - Looks like you get ~ RTX 4070Ti Desktop performance.
My Gigabyte Gaming OC RTX 4090 scored 26719 on 3DMark Port Royal - Been very pleased with it thus far having owned it for the past 10 days or so (Paired w/ Ryzen 9 7900X {DeepCool LT720 AIO} - G.Skill Trident Z5 Neo RGB Series 32GB DDR5 6000MHZ/ 30CL - Corsair RMx Shift RM1000x 80PLUS Gold PSU - Asus ROG Strix X670E-F MB - WD_Black SN850X NVMe M.2 2TB - White Lian Li EVO Dynamic case)
4070ti desktop is even faster
Why though? It is a 4090 but a mobile version which is expected to way underperform a desktop 4090 and also at 175 watts from a 4090 you can't expect much but still a GPU that eats only 175 watts and beats a desktop 3090 is damn impressive. A 3090 performance for 50% less power consumption.
@@laszlozsurka8991 15:00 it's not a 4090 though. It uses the same die as the desktop 4080 and a lot less power as well. So 4080m(obile) is a pretty fitting name. Either that or go by performance and call it a 4070(Ti) or something.
4090 doesn't really make sense no matter how you look at it...
@@zwenkwiel816 I don't understand how you expect more... how else could they fit a 4090 into a laptop? Even if they used the 4090 die and cut the wattage by 50% and the core frequencies by 300 MHz it would still be around a desktop 3090 performance.
And NVIDIA miss naming products... not the first time... the whole RTX 4000 series lineup is miss named. RTX 4080 in reality should be an RTX 4070 Ti... RTX 4070 Ti should be an RTX 4070... RTX 4070 should be an RTX 4060 and so on.
@@laszlozsurka8991 I don't expect more I just expect them to be honest. Putting 4090 on a laptop gpu when it's really a 4080 in literally every spec is just intentionally misleading to drive up the price. It's like putting a 3.0 badge on a car when it only has a 2.5 liter engine or something...
In my experience the stupid part of high end laptops is the ludicrous price on replacements, I have a non working beauty in a razeblade pro, which cost more to fix than to buy one in working condition., this also happened to a friend of mine with an alienware. Spent years looking for a motherboard replacement, I just get mad everytime I remember or think about getting a new laptop.
Not sure how close they are to actual integration, but the day of the solid state fan system is deep in the works, most notably from Frore. Definitely worth a deep dive if you're not already aware.
Current gen maxes out at 25w I believe. Long way to go before they are useful for something like this. Still, it is very cool tech that I hope they can figure out how to scale.
@@Sandriell I found it an interesting premise also but I'm not sold on the scaling. At present, rather than being able to bump up the volume, they just increase the quantity/density of units in lieu of heat pipes. Ehhh...
I have been using gaming laptops for the past 10ish years because I have been moving around a lot. It has been such a wild ride seeing how far they evolved!
My first one even had an optical drive in it which made it super thick compared to the one I have now. Currently I have a Lenovo Legion 7i equipped with all goodness: 11800H, 3080 (16GB VRAM, 175W TGP) 32GB RAM and 2TB NVMe.... a level of performance I couldn't even have imagined back then. I have been using this machine for about year and a half now and it is an absolute BEAST.
That's a genuinely impressive piece of kit, it would be really interesting to know what numbers it can hit if it's used on a cooling pad.
The cooling pads don’t actually make a large difference (look it up there alot of videos)
@@nerd20fromdiscorddepends on the type of cooling pad and how open the back and underside vents are. It's not really that effective on a laptop that has its back vents blocked by the screen (razer blade laptops), but it's much more effective on one that's opened. Also, I'd say the cooling pad with foam seals and the big 5200 fan is probably the best pad, bar none.
I love desktop replacement laptops because I need that mobility. I don't need it often, but when I do I love the fact that I can take my power with me.
Great video. I would never have guessed it could compete with a 3090 desktop card, very interesting thank you!
Because it can't
Port Royal: RTX 3090 Score: 20K, RTX 4090 Mobile: 15.5K
Just has to scream to do it lol
@@LucaRuggier so you play with LN2 cooled gpu at a voltage that would kill the gpu in a couple of weeks?
No wright? At normal circumstances 4090m laptop is faster than 3090 stock.
@@LucaRuggier So, a tricked out 3090 is your reference, eh? That's not his point, pal.
They must stop giving laptop GPU's a desktop GPU's naming!!!
They selling you "4090",but in reality you get 3090 performance...
Me sitting here with my potato laptop trying to play games at 720p 30fps occasionally
We all where you ones 😢
I use my Inspiron 14 laptop with a HDD from 2011 or 2012 to run a tuning program on my car. It's awful. Chromebooks and other low spec laptops are still way overpriced for me to upgrade though lol
A base PS4 would be a solid upgrade 🤣🤣🤣
@@guidosaur7506 Fr. They keep going for the slim factor of a laptop. But in every other aspect, it suffers from limiting their heat sink size. Id rather have a laptop in a backpack that's 3-4" thick that can actually compute, than have a laptop 1-2" thick that runs at 100c when pushing the hardware.
@@Surms41 except that the CPUs are SUPPOSED to run at that temperature, they are specced to run that high. Look up the parts on Intel's site. It is different than a desktop part. Mobile parts are expected to be able to run heavy and hot. Especially certain series.
my 2 year old legion 5i laptop with intel i7 and gtx1660ti mobile gets 190fps on mw2 with med settings and 300fps on rocket league with max settings, its probably 900$ now, it cost me 1300$ in 2020. my fav purchase ever, it fell off my car roof on the highway and still gets better performance than any pc or console i ever owned and i move it all around the house so quick and effortlessly, sometimes i game in my bed with it on the built in screen. i love it
MSI Afterburner isn’t showing the GPU temp and power utilization as options because Optimus is on. Put the laptop in dGPU mode (turns off integrated graphics) if it’s available and those metrics will be available.
I got a Gigabyte Aero 15 because I needed something to edit 4k videos for my channel and I'm very happy with it's performance so far. I do not game on it. The 4k OLED screen really makes color grading a breeze too.
I would be curious what happens if you had a cooling pad under it.
yeah, that with an iets gt500 cooling pad
Cooling pads are a gimmick. A stand is fine but cooling pad distrupt your actual airflow. It's good for crappy laptops though.
@@BrawndoQC the iets gt500 is so far above your standard gimmick cooler.
Not gonna help much, if the cooling system is already overloaded..
@@BrawndoQC there are vents on the bottom for a reason. You blow into said vents, you are helping cool system, since the fans are on the bottom of this system, PULLING the air in from the bottom. Push air into the bottom and it helps. Your statement fails at face value.
these clevo laptops with bottom vent, get boosts in temp (5-10C degree) when their powerful fan can flow the hot air out. just putting a phone box or sth like that will help tremendously in both temp and fan noise and subsequently, increased productivity or FPS in gaming.
My only issue with laptops is the same issue I have with gaming phones which are the useless features like cameras and RGB that are getting baked in. (Besides wrong screens etc for the power available)
You would think that the manufacturer would at least try cost cutting in the correct places like getting rid of useless features to make things more accessible (cut small features might not sound like a lot but once you add them up you might be surprised).
That's what Clevo does, they sell bare bones machines that usually only have like RGB keyboard and that's it, maybe a camera. You're talking about like Asus, MSI, Alienware etc... They come bloated in general.
@@Siegefya to tell the truth I thought clevo just made the chassis and it populated by manufacturers like Asus, this might sound trollish but I would love to see a high end laptop with out distractions like RGB crappy cameras keyboard or even a track pad it's just basically a thin portable small formfactor pc with a screen.
@@Spriggen1337 That's not trollish to me, I don't blame you. doesn't sound like a bad idea.
@@Siegefya And some laptops has keyboards that is only one light and it is dimmable with shortcut.
I don't use a laptop for gaming because I have a beast of a desktop PC and when / IF I ever go outside, I don't have a need or desire to bring a gaming machine with me. So I have no need or desire for a gaming laptop, but I do have to say this one is very impressive for sure.
I really liked GeForce Now when it was first in beta. I was traveling a lot and staying in AirBnBs all over the place, outside of SJC everywhere I stayed had internet access capable of allowing my MBP use GeforceNow to play games the system otherwise wasn’t capable of even starting. I would have loved to have something that was capable of gaming but at the time everything would have been super expensive and extremely heavy. Cool seeing these new offerings get closer and closer to filling this use case.
What is wrong with it now? Haven't checked it out
I would also like to hear why anyone would say laptops are dumb, I want to hear their supporting argument. The amount of use case scenarios for laptops is so vast.
Could you do a performance per watt of desktop and laptop GPUs and CPUs so we can compare what is most watt efficient? It would be interesting to see if laptops are a lot more performance per watt efficient and if it is worth getting a laptop for that reason.
The pain of laptops beating my gpu I haven't even used yet...
Even if intel says its ok for it to run close to 100c, doesnt mean its good for the rest of the components that are also getting hot.
They do last a while. Most people don't end up having failures due to that
All of the new hardware can run for years like that. Modern materials make them better at temperature handling than the 2013 era gear people are basing their temps on.
Sure it is. My 4 year old gaming laptop is just fine, and I undervolt my CPU and then it runs at a 39 turbo multiplier constantly, always on the dedicated graphics. Computers are made to age out after about 5 years. Especially laptops.
I love that Jay switched over to using the ltt screwdriver instead of his powered driver. He was 50/50 on it when he first got it, but there's a clear winner at this point.
Very cool video. Lots of great info. Your explanations are great. Thank you
Try that laptop with the IETS GT500 cooling pad to see if you can get extra performance. Curious how much it is thermal throttling
That mobile 4090 is pretty impressive, I wonder what a standard-sized custom GPU with two mobile 4090s would be like? If I was to purchase a laptop, this would definitely be a possibility, nice.
Goodluck spending 4k on this lol
@@nicksrandomness8116 , looks like Ile have to go on the dark web and sell a kidney first...damn.
@@richardajoy79 "standard-sized custom GPU with two mobile 4090s" what the fuck does this even mean? English, do you speak it?
@@richardajoy79 Maybe get a 4080 and 1440, not 4k and you won't have to sell a kidney.
i called Origin 4 times to ask if one of their laptops that i was interested in had a mux switch or advanced optimus, and 4/4 had no idea what a mux switch is lol smh
You are contacting T1 support who know how to tell you where a driver is online and how to run Windows update and reboot your machine. They arent hardware people or particularly well trained in anything and are extremely cheap labor for the company. The same desk likely serves multiple manufacturers. They serve mainly as a buffer for 97% of the calls. If the company could get away with no phone support at all they would. AI will see to that shortly. Once you buy their sh1t they hate you and only want to hear from you when you are value add. Ie want to buy something.
I currently run a 1070 in my PC, which works fine for almost everything I need, and I hate, HATE how much space a tower PC takes up so I really am thinking of buying a laptop for my next PC (not this one, obviously lol but it's nice to hear that laptops can be as powerful or more so than my current desktop PC, means I have plenty of options in the future)
I replaced my 1070 with a 3060 legion 5....way better than expected
but sacrificing upgradability
Ran a 1070 since they launched. Bought a Dell G15 laptop with a 3070ti on sale. Massive upgrade, but I do miss the upgrade paths of a desktop. I expect that much power will carry me for a solid few years at a minimum.
@@ibnadam65but do you really need upgrading if u buy it the best? Ur pc will still be good anyway yet always when people upgrade to next gen u end up just buying new pc in total
the price of upgrading is way less ,
anyways laptop are very inconvenient
The one thing with laptops is that yes, it's designed to run at those temps, but if the keyboard is also super hot it's not comfortable to use at all
Imagine paying 2000$ for a desktop 3090 just to see getting beaten by a laptop gpu a year later 🤡
I mean the laptop is gonna be 3k it better be better than a 2.5 year old gpu
except that a year ago you could find a 3090 for $1000 more or less...
I paid 1100 for my 3090 about a year ago. Evga water cooled, just waited for a sale.
1500usd 3090 3 years ago...kinda expected
@@fvallo well it came out 2 and a half years ago no 3, and at that time, is was virtually impossible to find it for less than $2000
makes way more sense to have a laptop with a OK gaming chip and a E-gpu when needed
I wanted to buy a 4070, but Is so bad the price performance that I have to go with a 4060 because the 4080 is so expensive. Nvidia really screw us with the 4070
If they screw you, why do you buy their product?
Would say 3070 if you can find it at an okay price
8gb 🤡
6800xt $500-600 new. 6950xt $650. Both very competent cards and priced fairly I think
7900xtx is a 4080 basically but $100-200usd more than the 4070ti. As long as you don’t mind not running ray tracing on certain games then it’s a great card. I love mine.
the fact you need to plug it in to play games and not turn it into a chromebook i better need a portable generator
the sound crackling makes me think the sound buffer(s) arent being fed quickly enough
with a laptop you will never have the thrill of having an object that consumes 500 watts and heats up as much as an oven
I replaced my aging tower setup with a laptop (AMD 5900HX 64GB RAM with a NVIDIA GeForce RTX 3080 Laptop GPU). It's not the current generation, but compared to the tower it replaced, it's 100 times better.
It is pretty amazing how thin gaming laptops are now, equally amazing how few sacrifices you have to make in regards to horsepower if you're willing to spend the money. I bought my first proper gaming laptop about 7 or 8 years ago. 6 core i7 and a gtx 1060 with 16gb of ram. Was fantastic to be able to do real gaming when I was on vacation or travelling for work. Early in 2022 I finally replaced it with a new gaming laptop, a Ryzen 9 5980HX with an rtx 3070 and I'm incredibly happy with it. As long as finances allow for it, I will always have a gaming laptop in addition to my workstation moving forward.
Humble security guard here. Taking my juiced up gaming laptop on those 14 hour long night shifts has been a life saver. We have a lot of down time between patrols :P
Tell that to companies that supply all the employees a laptop, all 50k of them, every three years.
I love my laptop Lenovo Flex 14, that was $600 in 2020. I can use it to do art, it is a 2-1 with stylus, I can code on it while on the bus. I used to travel an hour each way on the bus to work. I still use it every day.
"At the risk of sounding like I'm defending the temperatures, because I am" Jay being Jay
I have a Clevo X170KM-G, and I've loved it since I bought it. The 3080 mobile GPU kicks butt on most tasks even if the fans make it sound like it's gonna take off. 😅
Origin is having a sale for the EON-17x V2 with i9 and 4090 32gb 175 Watt TDP for only $3282. A similar spec Raser Blade 17 is $4300+. And a Asus Strix scar 17 with similar spec is $3,800+.
Wow, appreciate the way you opened the back and explained about it !
Now, I have no need of a laptop these days, and for the limited computer type stuff I do need to do on the road I can get away with my iPad. However, it’s still hekkin cool to see how powerful laptops have become. I’m ok with desktop use, my oldest kid has ASD &ADHD and she has a laptop, because she can be anywhere in the house or garden to do her school work, my youngest has a desktop because she’s a wheelchair user and being in one place at a desk is best for her. All our computers may not be the best, due to limited budget of being a full time unpaid carer reliant on only a single income, but they’re all good enough that everyone can do what they want, maybe not as quickly or at as high a setting as we’d like, but we no longer have to share. Keep showing these dream machines!
14:02 "that is where it's designed to run"
my brain: ALRIGHTY POWER IT UP *turns power processor maximum state up to 100%*
2:06 Old dude talking about "10 years ago" like it was yesterday. 😂🤣 That's 10 years!!! in tech!!!
Are thermal pads not really thermal insulators? Anything made of foam will keep the heat in instead of dissipating it.
There are some points to me, why I prefer a desktop over a laptop.
1. Monitor is much bigger
2. Sound is better
3. Keyboard feels better and has all keys where they belong
4. Sometimes I need troubleshooting to run the game on the laptop (for example game use only OnBoard Chip and not graphics card)
Yeah only if they can make Desktops smaller and sell entire Kits like Asus OLED 18-20in built in computer.. like iMacs..
For not expecting to use your laptop unplugged, it's recommended to have the battery between 45 and 65, from what I heard. I'm not sure that's correct, but it sounds like it could be, so I don't think it's entirely wrong.
I gotta say the steam deck makes a much better portable computer. No big bulky laptop to carry. A nice small handheld that can still do everything and has its own built in mouse and touch screen keyboard. And you can just carry a pocket sized dock so you can hook it up to any display.