I'm going to build a paper mache Honda B16 block and sleeve it with ceramic coffee cups. Top it off with 90 pounds of boost👍 Believe it or not when my son was racing MX at age 15 we would do this very thing. We would talk about how we would build a fully boosted motor in arts class. We would laugh for hours thinking up really funny stuff. On a very sad note he is now in Arizona at age 35 and on drugs really bad. I have not heard from him in a year! But don't stop with the arts class engine build ideas my friends. It brings back good memories ❤
@@jimhiscott2918 your going to need a leaf blower turbo if your running 90 pounds, conventional turbos would not cope with that strain, be sure you use extra virgin olive oil to many impurities in vegetable oil, slap on a toilet roll dump pipe and she will roar mate
I didn't realize people began making billet engine blocks that's amazing. Seriously cool engineering!!! But in 99% of cases, a stock block will do ya just fine.
I hope this becomes more readily available for old engines that have great aftermarket support for rebuild kits. You can keep an old car running indefinitely if you can keep buying all the pieces, block included! :3
"What is a billet engine, and when should you get one?" A billet engine block is a precision machined chunk of awesome, you should get one right now. *end credits*
Counterpoint: The billet block costs more than the rest of the fucking car and the cast iron block will be fine for 99.995% of hotrodders out there. Spend your money wisely. If you're on TH-cam looking up whether you need a billet block or not YOU DON'T NEED A BILLET BLOCK!
There are run a popper valved loop charged 2 stroke but you can cut ports into them also as aluminum is much easier to machine and weld up water jacket for port cutting. this is a chevy sb cast 2 stroke conversion:www.4btswaps.com/threads/turning-4stroke-into-2-stroke.12888/#lg=thread-12888&slide=0. Are these billet engines running stock oil injection system? They could with a dry sump, vro pump feeding into intake and amsoil dominator 2 stroke synth oil. I can wait to try this but a 1:1 crank speed came is needed to work int/exh valves with exh opening earlier for blow down. Its nice to see these billet 2 strokes run awsome!
@@drumbum7999 well yeah, but they are used in more high powered things, since they are lighter (not by too much) and they can resist deformation since they have a higher elongation and elastic ratio, compared to cast iron, to where if you try to bend, it'll snap before you were able to bend it. Thats what they were saying about the 2% for cast iron and the 10% for the forged aluminum alloy block. Remember, its mostly used by professionals who win lots of money, so its not really practical for a daily driver, unless its something you want to pass down to your 3 generation of grand kids. Be in mind, i don't know if it'll last that long myself, due to wear and tear, it might though, if it had constant servicing to it to keep it well maintained
"Billet" is usually taken as being an aluminium based alloy, but it can be any metal, which brings up the question - has anyone machined the block and/or head out of steel? While it would be heavier overall, part of that might be mitigated by less material being required, and it would definitely offer stiffness and thermal expansion benefits over aluminium. The only example that comes to mind where it was done was back in the day when someone (reportedly) machined a steel BD series block up because he was tired of blocks failing.
It all depends what you need and what you are willing to spend. Billet is for small quantity, custom fast made process. You draw your head, cam, crank in a CAD program and after a day or two you have your product. With a cast you need a whole factory process and it can't just be made when you need it. Casting is for large quantity needs. About strength yes billet is stronger and suitable for performance engines. Cast is more suitable for daily driver needs. Also with forging or billeting you have different expansion properties of the material. This is ok with sport usage since engine dont operate cold and is usualy heated by pooring hot oil like in F1 sport. With cars having forged or billet parts you are just looking for increased wear in cold start since forged pistons for instance have to have bigger clearence and thus rattle inside the cylinder until operating temp is achived.
If this guy tells me something about engines, I'll believe him because once you start milling aluminum blocks from billet, you're not alright in the head :O Keep up the good work!
I wish I could have seen how they milled water jackets in the billet piece. Also, on the comment that the aluminum has the same tensile strength as cast. This may be true at room temp. Aluminum loses over 1/3 of it's modulus of elasticity when raised past 300 degrees F. It keeps getting worse as you go up.
From looking at the model they showed, there are a series of rectangular carvings toward the top of the block running along each side, with bolt holes and what looks like a sealing surface. I think that is the "water jacket." Even though it is not as close to the cylinder as on the original, it should be fine due to the higher heat conductivity of aluminum.
That's a cool job to have. I've worked with some of those materials, but never a block of aluminum like that. Only variable now is the raw block quality
i'd love to have a replacement for my M96.23 Porsche engine. i think that would be even more expensive than a V8 because, including the heads, it would be 8 individual pieces to manufacture. also the crankbearings sit on castfit steelinserts in the aluminium, wonder how they'd find a solution to this in a billet piece.
the 2JZ is good, but definitely overrated. I suspect if all vehicles had the same aftermarket, there would be a few better options, and several surprises.
You can hear the RB head engine sound amazing even as a stroker and in NA applications vs 2JZ even 1jz. The RB sound is unmistakable. While with the JZ the Toyota block casting is the key while the rb25/26 are even weaker than Aussie cast Rb30 - something was definitely wrong with Nissan Japan for the rb25/26 block casting. They went from one of the strongest L6 blocks in the L series to the crack prone RB casting. Many Japanese are using the L series with RB heads for budget/strength in drag racing.
its disingenuous to compare billet aluminum to cast iron, when there is cast aluminum. They have their shiny billet thing next to a rusted out bilge pump from the titanic.
Omg 😳…. I’m ready boss where do you want me?? 4 axis?? Setup?? Dang on a Haas!!! That’s right!!! People hate on em but I love em! Dang I can’t wait to open my own shop 😊 Also…. Nice work man love your setup!!!! You have a cool work flow and the shop looks so clean lol 😅 👍🏽💯
Awesome video. I’ve been out of the racing seen for a long time and a lot has changed kinds like buck Rogers. One thing hasn’t changed and I’ve always said racing engines don’t run on racing fuel but racing dollars 🤪👍😎
There is no need to use forged iron. It has enough strength in cast form. Aluminum is much much weaker and only in applications of insane horsepower and you having the money to you use forged. A cast iron block is still much much stronger than forged Aluminum. I have never seen so many dumb comments. Even the guy in the video didn't know all Aluminum motors used sleeves.
Wow I was watching this video full screen after coming from another video and noticed the horrific tool path strategies used to machine these blocks. I thought Well maybe this video is from 10 or so years ago. Exited full screen and see it was from 2 days ago. OMFG those tool path strategies are from the 1990's.
@@StreetFXofficial Yeah after the first guy replied to me I realized I over reacted. They aren't a production shop having to pop out 10,000 of these a month.
So the non-water jacketed blocks are intended for drag racing only? I'd be curious to see how much strength an engine gains from not having a water jacket.
@@nats2956I assume that since a drag race is at most around 2 minutes run time including burnouts, the engine doesn’t stay running long enough for not having a water jacket to be a big problem
The one percent yield isn't measured against thickness. It's measured against the block's weight converted into Newtons, because a Newton is the universal unit of measure for force. It can be compared to the physical magnitude of pressure in the engine once that's also converted into Newtons. The point is, iron is more dense with a higher melting point and more magnetic resistance, so it can withstand more force than an aluminum alloy block of equal volume (same size). That's why the aluminum blocks are so much bigger. The great thing about a smaller block is that if you're working with a smaller engine bay, like most stock-chassis on 4-bangers, it gives you more space to add modifications, like headers, turbos or a supercharger, cold air intake, etc. He's right about this though: the bigger aluminum alloy billeted block engine will move less, probably because it'll be mounted on both opposite sides of the chassis' frame though lol.
How long is a billet engine able to last? If you had a 1000hp billet engine (including forged crankshaft, rods, pistons) how long would you expect it to keep going?
It’s depends on how you manage it, if your blowing up 500 hp engines you’ll most likely blow up your billet engine as well 😂 billet is just more forgiving but bad engine management will ultimately result in disaster anyway
I wonder how much that would cost to get a billet version of my 4cyl engine. They manufacturer made one and it was good for over 1000hp in the '80s so a few cooling passage and structural improvements while they're at it, and It would definitely be a good race engine.
chad danylak C’mon dude, engine block weight has nothing to do with the amount of power it can make. That only counts for moving parts, not the block. Jesus Christ....
@@StreetFXofficial an obvious downside to aluminum is that it will destroy itself if your cooling is inadequate for a couple minutes. Oh, your engine overheated? Rip it out, replace gaskets and level the surface. Ask anyone with a Subaru or Toyota.
I was curious about the answer posed by the title of this video. I thought the answer before I watched the video was that machining is the way to go for short runs and casting was the way to go for larger production. I think that was probably the right answer after I went looking around the internet. I didn't find anything that suggested cast aluminum was not as strong as the aluminum that a billet was made out of. Overall the video was entertaining even if it didn't address the issue posed by the title very well. I was curious what kind of cars these engines were being built for. 2000 hp was around twice the hp of a Formula 1 car and about three times the hp of an Indy car but it was much less than the hp of a drag strip car.
This raises more questions than it answers. Does the oiling system keep the block cool enough to not need coolant passages? What kind of things make assembly different than a factory block, just the headstuds and possibly torque specs? What makes the RB heads flow better than a JZ head?
@@StreetFXofficial I think we all know that part, just like in the old SBC days hardcore drag racers would completely fill their blocks with concrete, while the guys who stayed on the street would only half fill them. It just got me wondering because from the video, it didn't really look like any of the blocks had coolant passages, or if they did, they only went about 1.5" (40mm) into the block. I would have believed you if you said a street motor only needs coolant in the heads with the conductivity of aluminum and cooling properties of oil, especially with a cooler installed. My 2015 Tacoma is the first vehicle I've owned with aluminum heads and block and I have noticed that it dissipates heat a lot quicker in the winter. With my old 5.0 Mustang (iron block and heads) would still be warm after sitting shut off in 30*F for a few hours. My Tacoma on the other hand, even just after 1.5 hours, it takes a couple minutes of driving to get the needle off the seat of the gauge. There's a lot of variables with it though, the Tacoma is higher up with a much roomier engine bay, all though it's pretty much boxed in with the skid plates. The Mustang was lower and fit and a tighter, but it was completely open underneath, with an oversized radiator that holds more coolant. I like wondering about things though. I often wonder if a straight 6 really needs counterweights on the crank at all, when built right. Or if sidedraft Webers can be jetted and reworked to distribute meth injection systems and ran as an ITB/fuel injection set up.
no money is wasted on billet if you have to keep replacing your block (and other components) whenever the cast block shits itself under heavy load. cast blocks are not designed to go much higher than stock before major issues start popping up. if you are going to race and be competitive then go billet, if its only for street then stick with cast
mrnicktoyou both engine are strong with cast block but it only can handle 1300hp till they crack while these billet can handle 2200hp with bigger psi with no crack
They use billet aluminum because it is cheap, meets the need and is easy to machine. I would love to see these kind of of machining practices in iron. The block are redesigned to meet the performance needs. Low volume, high prices.
I'd like to see these billet blocks in 2045 with 100k km on them and then all the tuners try to get 1500hp out of them. Don't knock the 90's Japanese engine's they were masterpieces.
You would imagine that expansion and contraction would be much worse with aluminium than with a cast iron block, if the block gets taller as it heats up then you lose compression.
Yup, volumetric expansion of aluminium (0.000069) is about double that of iron (0.000035). See www.engineeringtoolbox.com/volum-expansion-coefficients-solids-d_1894.html. That said, car engines don't run hotter than about 250F (approx. 120°C). Source: www.globalcarsbrands.com/hot-car-engine/ Plug in the numbers here: www.easycalculation.com/physics/thermodynamics/thermal-volumetric-expansion.php and use 1000 for the initial volume to get more precise numbers since it rounds off to 2 digits after the comma. You'll see that if you heat up a car engine from freezing to this temperature, your total expansion will be 0.828%. So you're left with 99.18% of your pressure. That's 1/1.00828, in case you're wondering why it's not 99.172. In short: if I were you, I wouldn't worry about it, since some random Internet geek has already worried about it for you. ;)
How do they mill the water pockets tough? Just side straight pocket? I have so many questions with these billet blocks, would love to see them think thru a project like this ^^
Cool vid, really enjoyed it... sadly based in South Africa, so when you start talking prices in dollars US, it's like oh damn... Went through two 4AFE blocks in 11 years and busy building my third one now, by myself... so always good to learn about engine blocks and cylinder heads... could definitely do with a billet block...
so how do they handle water jackets in a billet block? I cant imagine it would be easy to machine them out. Or is there some other way to handle cooling around the block when using a billet block?
Not many 2JZ engines were made world wide. You would have to be a bit of a fanatic to get a billet 2JZ. Luckily in Australia if you want a 4.0 litres Ford Barra engine they are everywhere.
Wait a minute...what makes the 2jz so good is the cast iron itself...its so solid that it can withstand huge amounts of horsepower stock...wouldn't it be compromising to make it from aluminum?
My Name did you not listen to the guy? He said they were great until 1500hp After that they needed to thicken the cylinder walls and the bell housing, and the aluminum has the same strength with better elasticity
I'm 48 years old, I guess it's probably too late to learn engines. It's either that or dentist school... I just had a tooth pulled ,my engine overheated on the way . I was thinking it would be cool to be able to fix my own engine... as cool as being able to fix my own teeth. Plus ,you are really helping people by fixing their teeth or their car engine. Noble trade. Peace
I think it's safe to say that if you dont know whether you need a billet engine you probably dont need a bullet engine. Although it's an impressive piece
When you are removing large chunks of material from a big block of Aluminum like this engine block this causes a lot of movement dimensionally in the work pice so it’s at least a three or more step process before you can start bringing it to size. Can even have to go to heat treat to allow it to normalize. Not a easy job takes lot’s of skill.
Also this is what I would call a craftsman someone who can take raw material and turn it into an complex finished part. Your looking at a part that took more than 100 combined years of experience to make.
Albins in Ballarat i believe do so much racing components its not funny in fact they did have the contract to the V8 supercar rear ends complete with gearbox as one unit, :) It just shows you how good items are when real CNC engineering and computer cad is used to develop and put no's though the system to make sure each 0.000 of a thousands of a inch is perfectly matched for its use. :)
They won't give you them. That's their bread and butter. You could however "acquire" the software and use the in software tutorials to learn how to do all that. All it takes is time, practice, and learning.
@@StreetFXofficial That's great, I got a lead for my cat, But he will not let me put it on him, He does play fetch all the time, Have a great time, Keep the video's coming, Thanks Dave
Thanks Dave :) the Chairman is a blue point tonkinese, related to Siamese :P They're both known to be dog like so the lead should be no issue. Just put the harness on And let yours get used to it in the house for a few hours a day (make it one of those thin ones that doesn't restrict movement much - check out @chairman.meoww for our guys Insta, can see the type we use).
Never understand why people hate on certain engines though. Like when a Billet 2J or K series performs well and people say “it’s not a real 2J or k series so it doesn’t count” I do not understand the hate.
A billet is a solid piece of cast material. It is in fact just cast as a solid chunk instead of cast with features. Anyone that falls for the "billet" being better is unaware that it's cast. It's also misleading to claim it to be superior.
just outta curiosity will you be doing a VG motor or block for the 300zx? I know we have cast iron blocks which are heavy as sin. I would have a few people interested in getting these block in billet. LMK
Any chance in the near future of doing a sound test for these engines? This is a cast iron 2JZ and this is a Billet 2JZ sound comparison. Engines don't necessarily have to be in the car. For me it's the 4G63 but whatever you can do😃 Cheers.
I still shy away from using an aluminum engine for anything that requires performance spec. Possibly because whenever it comes to engine performance especially during racing or other events that demand a lot of power output from engines, certain fuels, additives tend to push a lot of extreme amounts of heat. Aluminum as a metal in any situation is a lower temperature melt than cast iron which means to me that your cooling has to be damn good to achieve performance with that kind of block. What helps put it into perspective for me however, is the fact that you at least use the jackets for pistons, which gives me some assurance that you know what you're doing. I wont know for certain until I get one and have a good look at it.
Yes true when running as a 2 stroke either poppet valved loop charged or uniflow clark cycle 2 stroke. Aluminum is easier to cut and machine ports into, high power pulsed laser anyone guided, but dangerous as hell by this method! Homemade dry sump combined with vro pump for oil injection will allow for your favorite synthetic 2 stroke oil, mine is dominator has i have tried it, xd-100 ror Motule 800 2T. now have lots of fun with your bilet aluminum 2 stroke conversion, use some water/methanol mist to cool thing down. here a cast chevy SB 2 stroke conversion:www.4btswaps.com/threads/turning-4stroke-into-2-stroke.12888/#lg=thread-12888&slide=0, how ever the toyota poppet valved 2 stroke was a modified 3JZ loop charged conversion!
Thats why i premix, some race engines do better at 40:1 or dry sump with oil injection. i use either xd-100 or amsoil dominator synth 2 stroke oil in my rotaries and love the results.
![BOWKYLION - วิงวอน (ex-change) [Official MV]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/cLdnZWDaO-w/mqdefault.jpg)
I'm going to build a paper mache Honda B16 block and sleeve it with ceramic coffee cups. Top it off with 90 pounds of boost👍
Believe it or not when my son was racing MX at age 15 we would do this very thing. We would talk about how we would build a fully boosted motor in arts class. We would laugh for hours thinking up really funny stuff. On a very sad note he is now in Arizona at age 35 and on drugs really bad. I have not heard from him in a year! But don't stop with the arts class engine build ideas my friends. It brings back good memories ❤
Pics or it never happened
@@difflockengage9228 lol.
@@jimhiscott2918 your going to need a leaf blower turbo if your running 90 pounds, conventional turbos would not cope with that strain, be sure you use extra virgin olive oil to many impurities in vegetable oil, slap on a toilet roll dump pipe and she will roar mate
use fiberglass in that mache too
@@mackk123 hell ya
I didn't realize people began making billet engine blocks that's amazing. Seriously cool engineering!!! But in 99% of cases, a stock block will do ya just fine.
0l
I hope this becomes more readily available for old engines that have great aftermarket support for rebuild kits.
You can keep an old car running indefinitely if you can keep buying all the pieces, block included! :3
For sure!
Umm no
What percentage of blocks on the road are stock? At least 99%
"What is a billet engine, and when should you get one?"
A billet engine block is a precision machined chunk of awesome, you should get one right now.
*end credits*
cast engines have machined surfaces where necessary so there's really no difference. billet just cost more
Counterpoint: The billet block costs more than the rest of the fucking car and the cast iron block will be fine for 99.995% of hotrodders out there.
Spend your money wisely. If you're on TH-cam looking up whether you need a billet block or not YOU DON'T NEED A BILLET BLOCK!
There are run a popper valved loop charged 2 stroke but you can cut ports into them also as aluminum is much easier to machine and weld up water jacket for port cutting. this is a chevy sb cast 2 stroke conversion:www.4btswaps.com/threads/turning-4stroke-into-2-stroke.12888/#lg=thread-12888&slide=0. Are these billet engines running stock oil injection system? They could with a dry sump, vro pump feeding into intake and amsoil dominator 2 stroke synth oil. I can wait to try this but a 1:1 crank speed came is needed to work int/exh valves with exh opening earlier for blow down. Its nice to see these billet 2 strokes run awsome!
@@drumbum7999 well yeah, but they are used in more high powered things, since they are lighter (not by too much) and they can resist deformation since they have a higher elongation and elastic ratio, compared to cast iron, to where if you try to bend, it'll snap before you were able to bend it. Thats what they were saying about the 2% for cast iron and the 10% for the forged aluminum alloy block. Remember, its mostly used by professionals who win lots of money, so its not really practical for a daily driver, unless its something you want to pass down to your 3 generation of grand kids. Be in mind, i don't know if it'll last that long myself, due to wear and tear, it might though, if it had constant servicing to it to keep it well maintained
10k for a billet 2jz is actually a pretty good price
Excellent video. Takes some of the mystery out of of billett engines.
I shudder to think how much one costs though.
$10k for the block, so probably only $6k more than a normal build.
@@StreetFXofficial that's actually not that bad.
I'm unsure if the 10k includes the cradle, sleeves and so forth, or just the bare block. That would be a question for Bullet.
@@StreetFXofficial do you think 9mm bullet is reliable
Yeah to be honest, when you're making 2,000 hp I'll tell you tight now $10k is a drop in the bucket on your car.
"Billet" is usually taken as being an aluminium based alloy, but it can be any metal, which brings up the question - has anyone machined the block and/or head out of steel? While it would be heavier overall, part of that might be mitigated by less material being required, and it would definitely offer stiffness and thermal expansion benefits over aluminium.
The only example that comes to mind where it was done was back in the day when someone (reportedly) machined a steel BD series block up because he was tired of blocks failing.
Titanium alloy would be awesome
Its like a Sports Illustrated swimsuit model: Looks beautiful, performs well, and is way outta my league.
It all depends what you need and what you are willing to spend. Billet is for small quantity, custom fast made process. You draw your head, cam, crank in a CAD program and after a day or two you have your product. With a cast you need a whole factory process and it can't just be made when you need it. Casting is for large quantity needs. About strength yes billet is stronger and suitable for performance engines. Cast is more suitable for daily driver needs. Also with forging or billeting you have different expansion properties of the material. This is ok with sport usage since engine dont operate cold and is usualy heated by pooring hot oil like in F1 sport. With cars having forged or billet parts you are just looking for increased wear in cold start since forged pistons for instance have to have bigger clearence and thus rattle inside the cylinder until operating temp is achived.
So billet can’t be used for daily or normal car guy??
This is my dream job. Hope I can find something similar to this once I finish my engineering degree.
Get some friends and start your own company.
@@ninelaivz4334 You don't build a restaurant before working in one.
@@FrozenHaxorof course you can if you know what your doing.
@@2seepThe point flew high over your head.
If this guy tells me something about engines, I'll believe him because once you start milling aluminum blocks from billet, you're not alright in the head :O Keep up the good work!
I wish I could have seen how they milled water jackets in the billet piece. Also, on the comment that the aluminum has the same tensile strength as cast. This may be true at room temp. Aluminum loses over 1/3 of it's modulus of elasticity when raised past 300 degrees F. It keeps getting worse as you go up.
exactly what i was thinking, what they said was pretty optimistic, might work well anyway for a while though
seemed like they had a big safety coefficient though, they design was much less conservative
it's 6061 t6 aluminium...used in billet builds. the same aluminium used in coca cola cans or beer cans. and trust me It's pretty strong.
From looking at the model they showed, there are a series of rectangular carvings toward the top of the block running along each side, with bolt holes and what looks like a sealing surface. I think that is the "water jacket." Even though it is not as close to the cylinder as on the original, it should be fine due to the higher heat conductivity of aluminum.
True. But, then again, not too many people run 300 degree thermostats.
That's a cool job to have. I've worked with some of those materials, but never a block of aluminum like that. Only variable now is the raw block quality
I am so glad Hard Metal and Rock Music is coming back to Videos. Man. 2020 is looking to be a GREAT YEAR!
@Mickey Mishra - 2020 was looking to be a great year? BOY did you get that wrong!
great video, the walk through at the end was icing on a cake
30 years a machinist & mech/manuf. engineer with high profile mosport experience... @17:05 I learned something new today :)
Memories.As a new automotive student, machined/ sleeved a few Vega engines, back in 76 or so.
Thanks for correcting my memory - I had the impression those engines were sleeveless.
@@podamis314 They came factory sleeveless, then, when they messed up, we bored em out for steel sleeves.😏
19:29 What a masterpiece job done well thumbs up for that !
god I wish this was in 4k, just beautiful
Brilliant work. I hope one day i get to buy a complete engine from you.
most beautiful thing I'ever seen, what sweet machine , making the block
2:20 turn captions on😂😂😭
😂😂😂😂
Well then
Thats some zoophilic shit right there
SeaN Black why would you think of a boxer breed weirdo lol
@@jadenwracing8176 ok chill kid
machined billet aluminum looks like jewelry, I love it !!!!!
What an awesome video thanks for sharing brother! 10k US which is $14876 AU not bad ay! If your building over 2000hp it’s a great investment
i'd love to have a replacement for my M96.23 Porsche engine. i think that would be even more expensive than a V8 because, including the heads, it would be 8 individual pieces to manufacture. also the crankbearings sit on castfit steelinserts in the aluminium, wonder how they'd find a solution to this in a billet piece.
When should you get one? When you win the freaking lottery!😝
I need a 2uzfe 4.7 for my 4Runner. That would be awesome but I’m not rich. You guys do great machine work.
Great, but how do you make both oil and water flowing routes in aluminum billet because in casting those are done by cores during casting process?
*_I think I'm going to order a Billet engine for my truck. Until a new material gets found to replace billet!_*
I thought he was going to cry when he told him the RB head
Flowed better than the 2J Z head 😂😂😂
the 2JZ is good, but definitely overrated. I suspect if all vehicles had the same aftermarket, there would be a few better options, and several surprises.
You can hear the RB head engine sound amazing even as a stroker and in NA applications vs 2JZ even 1jz. The RB sound is unmistakable. While with the JZ the Toyota block casting is the key while the rb25/26 are even weaker than Aussie cast Rb30 - something was definitely wrong with Nissan Japan for the rb25/26 block casting. They went from one of the strongest L6 blocks in the L series to the crack prone RB casting. Many Japanese are using the L series with RB heads for budget/strength in drag racing.
its disingenuous to compare billet aluminum to cast iron, when there is cast aluminum. They have their shiny billet thing next to a rusted out bilge pump from the titanic.
Kinda when state of the art engines are cast Al
Indeed
SAME, thing I was thinking.
@Barry Manilowa what about reliability?
Same question, how reliable are billet engines compared to cast engines?
Omg 😳…. I’m ready boss where do you want me?? 4 axis?? Setup?? Dang on a Haas!!! That’s right!!! People hate on em but I love em! Dang I can’t wait to open my own shop 😊
Also…. Nice work man love your setup!!!! You have a cool work flow and the shop looks so clean lol 😅 👍🏽💯
Title of video starts at 8:00
Awesome video. I’ve been out of the racing seen for a long time and a lot has changed kinds like buck Rogers. One thing hasn’t changed and I’ve always said racing engines don’t run on racing fuel but racing dollars 🤪👍😎
Just like the old line about there's no seed substitute for cubic inches should really be no substitute for cubic money
mpetersen6 got that right, no replacement for displacement 👍
Wow forged aluminum that’s impressive, it’s a good start, I wonder if you could do the same thing with the forged iron
There is no need to use forged iron. It has enough strength in cast form. Aluminum is much much weaker and only in applications of insane horsepower and you having the money to you use forged. A cast iron block is still much much stronger than forged Aluminum. I have never seen so many dumb comments. Even the guy in the video didn't know all Aluminum motors used sleeves.
@@johntate4638 oh yeah you know better than a man who does this stuff for a living and has a big ass company
Im about to finish my last semester of my computer integrated machining degree and i would kill to have a job like this
.
Wow I was watching this video full screen after coming from another video and noticed the horrific tool path strategies used to machine these blocks. I thought Well maybe this video is from 10 or so years ago. Exited full screen and see it was from 2 days ago. OMFG those tool path strategies are from the 1990's.
What's so wrong with the path?
@@Kekkojoker90 Probably could be optimized further regarding time consumption.
i mean it gets the job done doesnt it
When it takes a whole day to machine a block, I think the small savings woukd be negligible in the scheme of things.
@@StreetFXofficial Yeah after the first guy replied to me I realized I over reacted. They aren't a production shop having to pop out 10,000 of these a month.
Amazing guys, incredible job👌👌👍👍👍
So the non-water jacketed blocks are intended for drag racing only? I'd be curious to see how much strength an engine gains from not having a water jacket.
How is the engine cooled if there is no water jacket
@@nats2956I assume that since a drag race is at most around 2 minutes run time including burnouts, the engine doesn’t stay running long enough for not having a water jacket to be a big problem
How cool. Would love to be able to build any engine
The one percent yield isn't measured against thickness. It's measured against the block's weight converted into Newtons, because a Newton is the universal unit of measure for force. It can be compared to the physical magnitude of pressure in the engine once that's also converted into Newtons. The point is, iron is more dense with a higher melting point and more magnetic resistance, so it can withstand more force than an aluminum alloy block of equal volume (same size). That's why the aluminum blocks are so much bigger. The great thing about a smaller block is that if you're working with a smaller engine bay, like most stock-chassis on 4-bangers, it gives you more space to add modifications, like headers, turbos or a supercharger, cold air intake, etc. He's right about this though: the bigger aluminum alloy billeted block engine will move less, probably because it'll be mounted on both opposite sides of the chassis' frame though lol.
8:44 cue the dyno pull
Renishaw tool measuring devices, nice! i didn't know that Haas mills use the same toolchanging system as Hurco, at least it looks very similar.
How long is a billet engine able to last? If you had a 1000hp billet engine (including forged crankshaft, rods, pistons) how long would you expect it to keep going?
4,000,000 miles.
Rings, bearing, and Seals would be the issue
It’s depends on how you manage it, if your blowing up 500 hp engines you’ll most likely blow up your billet engine as well 😂 billet is just more forgiving but bad engine management will ultimately result in disaster anyway
I wonder how much that would cost to get a billet version of my 4cyl engine. They manufacturer made one and it was good for over 1000hp in the '80s so a few cooling passage and structural improvements while they're at it, and It would definitely be a good race engine.
I know its been 3 years lol but what do you have? Did you see that 4g63? Thats insane lol
"And that basically gives the strength of a cast block would've previously done"
*crickets
Cylinder walls are subject to a completely different form of stress.
alu remove all the heat faster and weight less, so in turn you can pump more power into the engine
chad danylak C’mon dude, engine block weight has nothing to do with the amount of power it can make. That only counts for moving parts, not the block. Jesus Christ....
@@StreetFXofficial an obvious downside to aluminum is that it will destroy itself if your cooling is inadequate for a couple minutes. Oh, your engine overheated? Rip it out, replace gaskets and level the surface.
Ask anyone with a Subaru or Toyota.
@@StreetFXofficial most engines cast or not have sleeves....
I was curious about the answer posed by the title of this video. I thought the answer before I watched the video was that machining is the way to go for short runs and casting was the way to go for larger production. I think that was probably the right answer after I went looking around the internet. I didn't find anything that suggested cast aluminum was not as strong as the aluminum that a billet was made out of.
Overall the video was entertaining even if it didn't address the issue posed by the title very well. I was curious what kind of cars these engines were being built for. 2000 hp was around twice the hp of a Formula 1 car and about three times the hp of an Indy car but it was much less than the hp of a drag strip car.
These guys know their stuff.
This raises more questions than it answers. Does the oiling system keep the block cool enough to not need coolant passages? What kind of things make assembly different than a factory block, just the headstuds and possibly torque specs? What makes the RB heads flow better than a JZ head?
Only drag blocks have no coolant passages because they are not running for long periods.
@@StreetFXofficial I think we all know that part, just like in the old SBC days hardcore drag racers would completely fill their blocks with concrete, while the guys who stayed on the street would only half fill them. It just got me wondering because from the video, it didn't really look like any of the blocks had coolant passages, or if they did, they only went about 1.5" (40mm) into the block.
I would have believed you if you said a street motor only needs coolant in the heads with the conductivity of aluminum and cooling properties of oil, especially with a cooler installed. My 2015 Tacoma is the first vehicle I've owned with aluminum heads and block and I have noticed that it dissipates heat a lot quicker in the winter. With my old 5.0 Mustang (iron block and heads) would still be warm after sitting shut off in 30*F for a few hours. My Tacoma on the other hand, even just after 1.5 hours, it takes a couple minutes of driving to get the needle off the seat of the gauge. There's a lot of variables with it though, the Tacoma is higher up with a much roomier engine bay, all though it's pretty much boxed in with the skid plates. The Mustang was lower and fit and a tighter, but it was completely open underneath, with an oversized radiator that holds more coolant.
I like wondering about things though. I often wonder if a straight 6 really needs counterweights on the crank at all, when built right. Or if sidedraft Webers can be jetted and reworked to distribute meth injection systems and ran as an ITB/fuel injection set up.
What a fantastic means of throwing excess money away on an engine build!
no money is wasted on billet if you have to keep replacing your block (and other components) whenever the cast block shits itself under heavy load.
cast blocks are not designed to go much higher than stock before major issues start popping up.
if you are going to race and be competitive then go billet, if its only for street then stick with cast
So, 2JZ engine block is stronger than RB block but, RB head flows better than 2JZ head. Engines seem pretty even as they both have their weaknesses.
mrnicktoyou both engine are strong with cast block but it only can handle 1300hp till they crack while these billet can handle 2200hp with bigger psi with no crack
Absolutely amazing, I guess, big horsepower, big money. Regards Brad
4:13 ABSOLUTELY FUCKING GORGEOUS. A TRUE REAL WORK OF ART THRU MACHINERY.
They use billet aluminum because it is cheap, meets the need and is easy to machine. I would love to see these kind of of machining practices in iron. The block are redesigned to meet the performance needs. Low volume, high prices.
Awesome video! Learned a lot!
looks like a piece of art
Starts at 8:00
Thx
I'd like to see these billet blocks in 2045 with 100k km on them and then all the tuners try to get 1500hp out of them. Don't knock the 90's Japanese engine's they were masterpieces.
That's what I was thinking cast iron will take out aluminum in the long run
6:42 I'm really glad that all my head holes are in the right location🤣😂😅🤣😂
so beautiful and perfect.
Base Engine - First day at the gym
Billet Engine - Professional IFBB Competitor
💪🏻
I love how they call it Bullet. Oh boy.
How can the cnc mill the blocks oiling passages
This was a casual video till 7:33 when this guy said they have customers with 4 cylinders making 2khp😭
Very interesting loved the catia view learned a lot beacuse of ya guys thx!
Brilliant Vid guys.👍🏽🍺
You would imagine that expansion and contraction would be much worse with aluminium than with a cast iron block, if the block gets taller as it heats up then you lose compression.
Yup, volumetric expansion of aluminium (0.000069) is about double that of iron (0.000035). See www.engineeringtoolbox.com/volum-expansion-coefficients-solids-d_1894.html. That said, car engines don't run hotter than about 250F (approx. 120°C). Source: www.globalcarsbrands.com/hot-car-engine/
Plug in the numbers here: www.easycalculation.com/physics/thermodynamics/thermal-volumetric-expansion.php and use 1000 for the initial volume to get more precise numbers since it rounds off to 2 digits after the comma. You'll see that if you heat up a car engine from freezing to this temperature, your total expansion will be 0.828%. So you're left with 99.18% of your pressure. That's 1/1.00828, in case you're wondering why it's not 99.172.
In short: if I were you, I wouldn't worry about it, since some random Internet geek has already worried about it for you. ;)
My advice to anyone who wants to learn all aspects of trade skills like what you see here is to first become a multi millionaire or forget it.
Brenton K k
Awsome work. Now what about cooling jackets or are these just drag racing blacks?
Did I hear the faint sounds of Vanilla Ice
How do they mill the water pockets tough?
Just side straight pocket?
I have so many questions with these billet blocks, would love to see them think thru a project like this ^^
I eas wondering the exact same thing about coolant passages
They probably just drill holes and cross connect them with more holes
They mill the water passages from the inside where the cylinder sleeve goes before they install the sleeve.
@@budburr66 makes sense
@@skalamerija220 Basically a wet sleeve motor.
The Triumph TR engines were developed from the Vanguard wet sleeve 4 cylinder block.
What a fantastic company, so awesome
Cool vid, really enjoyed it...
sadly based in South Africa, so when you start talking prices in dollars US, it's like oh damn...
Went through two 4AFE blocks in 11 years and busy building my third one now, by myself... so always good to learn about engine blocks and cylinder heads... could definitely do with a billet block...
Such an amazing work. Imagine making a 2jz from a 52100 steel (ballbearing steel) .
You will have fun machining this type of steel xD
CPM 10V lol
so how do they handle water jackets in a billet block? I cant imagine it would be easy to machine them out. Or is there some other way to handle cooling around the block when using a billet block?
they show it in video they have a cover plate that bolts on over the water galleries
I am curious about catastrophic problems like a thrown rod that bangs around in that aluminum block. Moreso repairable than iron block?
They even look good !
Thanks for this excellent video
What about the coolant pathways that go around the block?
Not many 2JZ engines were made world wide.
You would have to be a bit of a fanatic to get a billet 2JZ.
Luckily in Australia if you want a 4.0 litres Ford Barra engine they are everywhere.
The 2jz is the king,,,the barra is a toy next to the jz
I love that these days with right CNC milling machines potentially ANY blocks and heads could emerge in a day
Like a v8 2 stroke like this:www.4btswaps.com/threads/turning-4stroke-into-2-stroke.12888/#lg=thread-12888&slide=0
Wait a minute...what makes the 2jz so good is the cast iron itself...its so solid that it can withstand huge amounts of horsepower stock...wouldn't it be compromising to make it from aluminum?
My Name did you not listen to the guy? He said they were great until 1500hp
After that they needed to thicken the cylinder walls and the bell housing, and the aluminum has the same strength with better elasticity
@@robertmcquarrie452 no I didnt i was at work and it's super loud lol guess it would've helped to hear it too.
Awesome video, you can do my old 2001 s3 engine block next that is made out of cast.
Nice i was looking for that. Do you make engines block with any material desired?
I'm 48 years old, I guess it's probably too late to learn engines. It's either that or dentist school... I just had a tooth pulled ,my engine overheated on the way . I was thinking it would be cool to be able to fix my own engine... as cool as being able to fix my own teeth. Plus ,you are really helping people by fixing their teeth or their car engine. Noble trade. Peace
3:24 - "leftover scrap on the ends..." SCTE, SWEETEST COFFEE TABLES EVER...!!!
I think it's safe to say that if you dont know whether you need a billet engine you probably dont need a bullet engine. Although it's an impressive piece
For when you want the same or slightly higher strength relative to cast iron but with much less weight.
When you are removing large chunks of material from a big block of Aluminum like this engine block this causes a lot of movement dimensionally in the work pice so it’s at least a three or more step process before you can start bringing it to size. Can even have to go to heat treat to allow it to normalize. Not a easy job takes lot’s of skill.
Also this is what I would call a craftsman someone who can take raw material and turn it into an complex finished part. Your looking at a part that took more than 100 combined years of experience to make.
Albins in Ballarat i believe do so much racing components its not funny in fact they did have the contract to the V8 supercar rear ends complete with gearbox as one unit, :) It just shows you how good items are when real CNC engineering and computer cad is used to develop and put no's though the system to make sure each 0.000 of a thousands of a inch is perfectly matched for its use. :)
I'd pay for CAD/CAM videos from them!
They won't give you them. That's their bread and butter.
You could however "acquire" the software and use the in software tutorials to learn how to do all that.
All it takes is time, practice, and learning.
just an fyi to anyone trying to do this fusion 360 I believe gives free licenses for personal use I'd you would like to learn
@@lucysmith4242 argggg m8y i be a pirate of these seas
Von Hassen lmao, if there is a will there is a way
Yes please.. I need a billet 4g63
Very well done, very interesting,
We're is your Siamese cat, I have a chocolate point, Siamese cat, I am in the UK,
Great video's
Lol, he's chilling outside on the balcony, he's still upset about me going away for summernats last week :P
@@StreetFXofficial
That's great,
I got a lead for my cat,
But he will not let me put it on him,
He does play fetch all the time,
Have a great time,
Keep the video's coming,
Thanks Dave
Thanks Dave :) the Chairman is a blue point tonkinese, related to Siamese :P
They're both known to be dog like so the lead should be no issue. Just put the harness on And let yours get used to it in the house for a few hours a day (make it one of those thin ones that doesn't restrict movement much - check out @chairman.meoww for our guys Insta, can see the type we use).
Hi , I will have to give it another try,Thanks Dave
They are great photos, I will have to do the same for my cat, Thanks Dave
Never understand why people hate on certain engines though. Like when a Billet 2J or K series performs well and people say “it’s not a real 2J or k series so it doesn’t count” I do not understand the hate.
A billet is a solid piece of cast material. It is in fact just cast as a solid chunk instead of cast with features. Anyone that falls for the "billet" being better is unaware that it's cast. It's also misleading to claim it to be superior.
just outta curiosity will you be doing a VG motor or block for the 300zx? I know we have cast iron blocks which are heavy as sin. I would have a few people interested in getting these block in billet. LMK
Wow! Can you imagine how indestructible this block and head is? The regular 2jz is over engineered.
I'm from brazil, and i saw people here trying to sell 2jz cast block for R$30k, that's almost $5k
Wow!!! Did he say 4 cylinders 2000HP?🙀🙀🙀🙀💯🔥🔥🔥
if 10-12k hp is possible on an 8 cyl...why is 2k on a 4 so wow?
Any chance in the near future of doing a sound test for these engines? This is a cast iron 2JZ and this is a Billet 2JZ sound comparison.
Engines don't necessarily have to be in the car. For me it's the 4G63 but whatever you can do😃 Cheers.
The hardest part is the input of the location like oil passage
I still shy away from using an aluminum engine for anything that requires performance spec. Possibly because whenever it comes to engine performance especially during racing or other events that demand a lot of power output from engines, certain fuels, additives tend to push a lot of extreme amounts of heat. Aluminum as a metal in any situation is a lower temperature melt than cast iron which means to me that your cooling has to be damn good to achieve performance with that kind of block. What helps put it into perspective for me however, is the fact that you at least use the jackets for pistons, which gives me some assurance that you know what you're doing. I wont know for certain until I get one and have a good look at it.
Yes true when running as a 2 stroke either poppet valved loop charged or uniflow clark cycle 2 stroke. Aluminum is easier to cut and machine ports into, high power pulsed laser anyone guided, but dangerous as hell by this method! Homemade dry sump combined with vro pump for oil injection will allow for your favorite synthetic 2 stroke oil, mine is dominator has i have tried it, xd-100 ror Motule 800 2T. now have lots of fun with your bilet aluminum 2 stroke conversion, use some water/methanol mist to cool thing down. here a cast chevy SB 2 stroke conversion:www.4btswaps.com/threads/turning-4stroke-into-2-stroke.12888/#lg=thread-12888&slide=0, how ever the toyota poppet valved 2 stroke was a modified 3JZ loop charged conversion!
Thats why i premix, some race engines do better at 40:1 or dry sump with oil injection. i use either xd-100 or amsoil dominator synth 2 stroke oil in my rotaries and love the results.
Inconel and titanium are used in gas turbines.
CNC milled tool steel would probably work fine. Injection moulding relies on CNC milled steel.