Have any other RS owners experienced this launch control problem? You can also find me on; Instagram : markcup70 Twitter : markcup70 Facebook : markcup70
Launch control won't work if the engine isn't fully warmed up. I've done this a few times when I hadn't let the engine get fully and properly warmed up, engaged launch control, then it just bounced off the limiter rather than staying at 5k. Also if you let out the clutch in neutral while waiting for the light with launch control engaged, it will disengage launch control. It's easy to miss the "LC" going away, then put in the clutch, shift in to first, floor it, and it'll just bounce off the limiter. My RS now has 48,500 miles on it with the original engine (I had the head gasket recall done, but it was never getting coolant into the cylinders), and I run it *hard* and in Sport mode with ESC off almost all the time (so I can kick the back end out whenever there's the perfect moment of low-grip surface, wide road, and no traffic). Drive the hell out of it and enjoy it, *especially* while it's under warranty. It's one of those cars when driving at 6/10 is kind of "eh... doesn't seem that fast...", but if you drive it at 10/10 you realize "ooooh, it loves a good thrashing!"
You keep on going Mark, it's going to take more problems than you've had before you give in, I bet Ford can't believe you have kept that piece of crap😂 it's actually getting past painful watching your vids and it's now becoming funny, your actually looking at the weather improving as a positive in all this, brilliant!!
I was a Product development Engineer for Ford for 17 yrs in there steering division. I do know that We Engineers do care about field problems and don't always get notified when problems arise. Stay persistent with your complaint and it will get solved.
I think your videos are great !! I love how persistent you are ! I get mine in March (can wait ) your videos have been great for me, so thanks 👍😎⭐️⭐️⭐️⭐️⭐️
+Michael Hesford thanks Michael! Believe me when I say it's worth the wait (I had to wait 7 months for mine), engine issues aside they're fantastic cars to drive.
MarkCup70 7 months 🤪 I’ve waited 12 months so I know how you feel ! I need a big deposit so I could afford the payments !! Seriously though thanks mate 👍
Hi Mark. Thanks for your videos. They are quite enjoyable. 'Road & Track' has a good article about RS engine failure in its 28.12.17 edition. In brief, what happened is that the 2.3 L engine gasket for Mustang is similar to the RS'; for several production runs -- eg April - July 2016 -- Saarlouis installed the wrong gasket, thereby leading to engine failure. Some unfortunate owners had subsequent failures when, again, the wrong gasket was fitted. Hope that the correct gasket was installed for your second engine. Cheers.
Hello Mark, you will get no response from the local ford dealer. I have seen a document on how to avoid warranty claims on the focus rs. Dealers will be looking for any upgrades that are not authorised by them. They knew about this problem before the car was launched. As a mechanic with 35 years of knowledge this is my opinion of why these units are failing. The block they are using is a open deck. Anyone who knows anything about turbo or forced induction engines is that open decks dont work. This problem will never go away. Under heavy boost conditions you will get movement of the bore causing head gasket wear and distortion of head and in bad cases the block. All fords have done is a modified head gasket and changed the torque settings of the head. I am waiting on delivery of my focus rs edition and very concerned that secondhand values are falling because of the bad press. Fords need to come clean and recall these cars and fix this problem.
We know open deck blocks are sub par....so why did they use it ? Desperate for a cost saving ? Doesn't the ST have a closed deck block and it is a similar engine.
I have been involved in the design of highly boosted world rally car engines and world rally cross engines that are completely open deck and work fine. Now I know the mileage is much lower but to just say that boost doesn’t work with an open deck is not correct.
Hi Mark. My 2018 UK RS Edition with an late October engine has failed launch control exactly as you described a few times. I put it down to everything not being up to temperature properly.
I've had my Mk3 RS for over a year, low mileage but I do make sure it's properly warmed up before I go out for a spin which is never less than 20 miles, not had the engine issue yet but was interested in your take on it being down to hear cycles - made sense to me. Anyhow cheers for the vid and I hope your new engine keeps working well.
Matt Carling your reply disappeared, but just to let you know I'm enjoying all 3 of my cars, especially the RS - thanks for the concern and Happy New year to you ☺
Mark, It would be interesting to know how many weeks lead / delivery time these days if you were ordering on the factory ? Any idea? Have all the Editions including the Red, allocated to UK ,now been taken up?
I’m really chuffed for you but the launch control issue and the obvious engine failure is just so poor for a performance car in 2017. Left Ford a while ago after owning a Cosworth which drank a litre of oil every 100 miles when driving over 100mph (in Germany when I was in the army). Also ironically had an army mate whose RS2000 had a head gasket failure at 2000 miles from new. I drive a reliable V8 now and I wouldn’t want to be driving a car that could potentially let go at any time. But good luck with yours and I sincerely hope you don’t have any more trouble. I admire your loyalty to the brand and your vlogs are honest and informative too.
Good to see you got a new engine. I can't see how the faults have been cleared with a new engine. I've known a couple of rs focus needing a second engine. Hopefully u don't but am definitely no convinced that it's been sorted.
Mark, Me again! Have you seen the recently published video around the fact that this may have been an issue with the wrong headgaskets being supplied by the supplier and fitting unknowingly it seems by ford?
Road and track did a little bit of digging and found a reasonable explanation for the failures, mostly resulting in the misuse of the mustang head gaskets that uses different cooling jackets than the RS.
Hello Mark. Does the RS has a comfortable ride?. I'm asking these because I see you jumping a bit in the seat during your videos and I guess that is probably due to the road vibrations. It is comfortable as a daily car?. Do you know if this RS motor problem has been solved in new cars?. Cheers ;)
Could it be that it wasn’t up to temps Mark? I tried mine the other wk and it done the same as yours, rev’ed right to the limiter! I’m sure mine wasn’t warm enough on the oil temps, I’m gonna try it again soon and see if it was a one off🤞
I have had my launch control bounce of the rev limiter once. That time I had the parking brake enabled. My car's engine was built in February of 2016. So it might be a glitch that exists on all cars.
I have experienced the launch control failing to limit the rpm to 5000 a few times on my ‘17 RS. Seemed to always happen when the oil temperature wasn’t quite up to the center mark. The water temperature would be fine but the oil temps were a little low. When I tried again after the oil temp came up it seemed to work as advertised.
Good stuff Mark. Have you checked the coolant temperature using torque pro? With the theory on overheating CHs that might be interesting information. I tried with a different OBD2 device but could only get temp readouts at +/- 85°C, so it seems to me that the temp data are "clustered" even coming from the ECU.
I've monitored coolant temp and it's not been as you've described. From a low start point I see them smoothly climb as the engine warms peaking at 100°C. They certainly don't seem clustered.
Mark did you double check that the engine number was stamp correctly? Does your service record manual booklet show the installation of a replacement engine . Or is it only on Ford Service online service records system . How is it done?
+keith morris the confirmation in writing that Ford fitted a new engine I'm still waiting for Keith. I will get something, I have to, otherwise any prospective buyer could suggest I fitted the new engine myself!
Mark , Their next comment ,not in writing to you, will be, it is on your Ford's vehicle records online,not in your service book and stamp as such . Not visible to a new owner should you sell privately.
The issue is ford have been using the head gasket from the mustang. It's not the same engine at all. But someone packaged the same head gaskets for both the RS and Mustang. Coolent is blocked and bubbles and eventually breaks the engine. Hope this helps
Hi Mark, a couple of questions for you. 1. I noticed in this and other videos, you frequently use the E brake when at a stop, before setting off, do you find this better than just using the clutch/gas/service brakes? Do you always use the E brake? 2. What is the Mfg recommendation for using the launch control? It seems that it would be very hard on the cars driveline, so I was wondering if Ford gives guidelines on how often it can be used etc. The same for drift mode. Im not sure how hard this is on the cars driveline, seems like it would be considering deliberately oversteering would put a lot of stress on the cars components.What says Ford? Cheers. Love your videos, particularly your vlog on the RS. Look forward to what you have in store for us in 2018. Happy New Year!
I must commend you on your driving position Mark... it's "perfect"...! By the way... all 4 pot Ecoboost I have heard are a bit "tappety" as you say. It's a lot to do with the plastics that are sued on the engine these days. (Intake and roccker cover).
The only way ford will sort this is to redesign the engine block and head but that would be disastrous for them that's why they're keeping quiet not even telling their Frontline staff that's why they can't tell you anything !!
Mark, I'm pretty sure launch control is somehow effected when handbrake is on... I've had same thing happen but only ever when handbrake is applied, though sometimes works fine when handbrake is on! No idea why!
im actually looking at a mk 2 focus as my little corsa will be sold on im getting tired of friends struggling with getting out the back and i canr see where the front end is, the boot is too small for our shopping, and 65hp seems a little weak for 1100kg.
+Marius Roetzel that's correct Marius, Bluetooth and Torque Pro. It's on my list of video topics to cover but since my engine failed it's kind of dropped down a little. I will get to it soon, early in the New Year hopefully!
Exactly the same response I got when I asked about engine changes from the early engines. Told to speak to the dealer, the dealers know nothing....obviously not willing to comment as whatever they say could be used by customers with out of warranty cars to get a fix if engines fail later if a fault it owned up to...
Hey Mark another great video. A tool resource you may want to use to complain to ford. You have probably heard of Martin Lewis - the money saving expert you see on BBC all the time. He has a website called Resolver and it makes complaining to companies so each as it drafts formal letters and has the contact details for various department levels. Worth giving it a look mate.
Hi Mark, been following your story closely. I currently have an RS edition on order and have asked the same questions of Ford and pointed them at a number of online videos around the engine failures as I would like confirmation of the fix before I part with 38k! I was asked to speak to my dealer who couldn’t answer, they then told me to speak to Ford customer relations who pointed me back to the dealer. It was then back to Ford CR before I have now been asked to physically write to the technical department who maybe able to help. Not sure if you had this feedback?
I've not got to that point yet Chris...but putting something in writing is likely to follow at some point. I'm waiting on the dealership to come back to me with some, but not all, of the things I've asked for...and also a few pictures they took while the engine swap was in progress. Let me know how you get on with the Technical Department.
Problem with engine head gasket is that they used the same gasket from mustang eco boost. Mustang engine cooling is different than the ford rs. There labeled the gaskets wrong.
Have you had the "unable to select mode" warning come up yet? It's just started doing it on my RS and because it's intermittent I don't know whether the dealership can do anything until it actually shows permanently. As to your back and forth with dealership and Ford relationship, this happens all the time. They know full well about what's wrong with these cars but will not own up or admit anything. Which is frustrating when you're trying to get a problem solved. I had a cutting out problem a couple of years back with an ST. Dealership said they had never come across it, yet I had seen many postings on social media and the internet about the issue especially in the US where they said Ford US was aware. Basically they said I was talking bollocks. So I cut and pasted some articles, sent a complaint to head of Ford UK. And within a week the dealership sheepishly asked me to bring the car in. Dagenham instructed their technicians on how to cure the problem, and the service manager gave me an apology through gritted teeth. So I know how you feel with your dealership at the moment and can only suggest you force them to give you answers. They are good at taking our money but not so good at helping when things go wrong. Best of luck.
Hey Mark, Have you experienced the horrible wandering left right when pulling hard in 4th or 5th gear? Just discovered it in mine, it's bloody awful!! Hey.. did you know 85% of all Fords ever sold are still on the road? The other 15% made it home.
+Nige haha, touché! No wandering at all in my car. I personally think the ultra quick steeting rack is the problem Nige, it's super sensitive, mm inputs can have your changing lanes.
Saw an article on facebook about the headgasket problems some RS have. Something about a focus rs engine with gasket from the mustang 2.3 ecoboost. 2 different engines but they used some of the mustang gaskets in the RS. Dunno if that was also tje problem with yours....
Thanks for the vid very good honest information I've got one on order but to be honest I have my doubts about this engine & the so called fix, as we all know a car salesman will tell you anything to try and convince you ????
Fezza said his RS felt more perky and just generally better after the engine change too. Maybe it is placebo, but I suspect not. The BMW 440 certainly sounds more lively, but I'm glad that owner doesn't live near me, its the last thing I'd want crackling and popping away first thing on a cold winter morning just as I'm trying to get some kip after a night shift! Seriously guys, if you live in a high population density area, please do your engine demos somewhere else. Fortunately, manufacturers have realised that it can be a bit anti-social to have engines sounding like this in residential neighbourhoods and are introducing "good neighbour" modes that dial back the sound FX for a few minutes after start-up, it gives you a chance to get on the main roads.
My friend has just got his 2017 audi rs3 and audi told him for the first 1000 miles not to take it past 4000 rmp think that should be the same with ford because 5000 rpm is a little to close to the limiter hope your warming the turbo up and cooling it down properly. I'm thinking of purchasing a focus rs and I do I certainly won't be doing launch control until it's properly worn in
+Barrie Kingston I had no intention of launching it Barrie, I was in a traffic queue at the time I tried it, I only intended to demonstrate the noise and how it holds the RPM at 5k. As for running in guidelines, Ford are very specific, maximum 5,000 rpm and maximum of 75% throttle. As that's what they say, that's what I do.
MarkCup70 oh I get that mate totally your doing basically what ford say you can do mate.just think 5000 rpm is abit much.i know for a fact if I get one I won't be taking it that far and after 1000 miles I'll be getting it serviced for peace of mind.just hope ford have sorted the fault and hope your second engine is as it should be
Barrie Kingston I agree with your statement, and would take what ford say with a pinch of salt, but in his case the engine will probably not last long enough to worry about longevity! :)
I suspect Ford are slightly nervous of you, data loggers, detailed history, and of course your TH-cam reports. I admire your tenacity and considered approach to this whole story, I’m watching with interest and wish you and the car some good luck in the coming year!
So, I have to ask.... 232 days, a replacement engine, wonky launch control, and the runaround from customer service... Do you regret selling your Fiesta ST? Obviously the Focus RS is brilliant when everything is working properly, but is it so good still that the benefits out-weigh the inconveniences you have experienced/are still experiencing?
When you put it like that my ownership experience sounds terrible but the reality is very far from it. The launch control glitch happened once and in 8.5k miles I've only launched the car 6 times so that's no problem at all. As for the engine replacement? It was dealt with swiftly and professionally...yes I had a Kuga for two weeks, but aside from that the process could not have been handled any better by Ford or the dealership. Do I want or need the answers from Ford I'm asking for? Not really...but it's fun to keep chipping away with the slight hope that I might just get something in writing that could be internet gold! As for the ST...regret? Not at all. Having said that I'd happily have another. I'm off to see a buddy today who's got a 2013 ST2 with only 20k miles on it...in a few more year's time I hope to have that very car on my driveway as a daily if I can ever convince him to sell it to me!
Great to hear. I began watching your videos a few months ago because I was considering purchasing a Fiesta ST. Thanks to the thorough nature of your youtube episodes, I was able to make that purchase with added confidence. As of last week I'm the proud owner of a Certified Pre-Owned, late 2013 built, Fiesta ST in Race Red with 29k gentle miles on it. Having owned a variety of cars over the years (from Mk1 Golf's and Mk2 GTI's to big block Chevelle Super-Sports) this is is without a doubt the most fun to drive car I have ever experienced. Having watched your videos and learned how much you appreciated your FiST, it's been heartbreaking to see the trouble you've been experiencing from the Focus RS. Hopefully you're through the disappointing bit, and the car will be trouble-free from here on out. Thank you for the videos, and thank you for the response to my question. May the FoRS be with you!
@Bruno Danese. I think it's technically 1 of 8 times. He'd launched it 6 times without issue before the engine failed, then once for the attempt where LC failed, then once again when trying to duplicate the issue for this video. (That's 6+1+1 for you Clue/Tim Curry fans out there)
I've seen on TH-cam,the rs engine is an open deck block,so no support for cylinder walls,they did it for better cooling,but it wears the headgasket, and stresses the block,!
So these are basically the same issues as on the focus st mk2 with the cylinder liners cracking because they had no support due to the cooling channels between them? There were these shims you can insert in the cooling channels to support the cylinder liners... But as far as I remember this fix was also not a 100% safe solution.
Im not an RS owner but id take the RS over the BMW anyday. 440bmw just a poormans m4..The RS has something quite special about it. Pitty about the engine issues but if ford can sort that out once and for all i would consider one
Jon Gray It’s is absolutely not a poor man’s M4... It’s a much more civilized car than the M4 is. A relative of me has traded his M4 for a 440i because he got nuts in the M4 doing almost 25k miles a year. Now he has a much more compromised car, with that smooth 8 speed ZF and less firm suspension. He loves M cars, but not for his business trips...
K9 JSB mileage also reflects on the chassis, et al - engine just a small part of that; so when changing engine you have to continue the mileage as to not do so would underestimate the mileage on the rest of the chassis.
Know this is an old video. But I’ve no idea what type of answer you expected from the Ford dealer or Ford customer service? Expecting them to put it in writing that your new engine won’t fail is simply unreasonable. They’ve got no idea what your driving style is like. No manufacture in the world will be able to say that an engine won’t fail. All they can do is honour the warranty. If it blows again, it is what it is and they rectify under warranty
Hello Mark, under the consumer rights act 2015, the first six months, If you discover the fault within this period after buying the car it is presumed to have been there since the time of purchase, unless fords can prove otherwise. During this time, its up to fords to prove that the fault wasn't there when you bought the car. Its not up to you to prove that it was. If an attempt at repair or replacement has failed, you have the right to reject the car for a full refund or a price reduction, If you wish to keep it. There is unfortunately a exception to the rule is that a motor vehicle, where fords may make a reasonable reduction for the use you've already had of the car after the first 30 days. If you prefer to keep the car you can request an appropriate price reduction. Hope this helps mate.
This I now know. I thought it was warmed through enough when I tried it (I wasn't going to actually launch but just wanted to hear the brap brap brap) but clearly it wasn't!
I wish I could afford your car (rs) have loved the look and all the stats about it , if I could have afforded one I would have bought one as well, but in honesty, the engine fail, would have been enough for me to sale it after I got it back from ford , u seem like the type of lad that's a bit OCD about things !!! How u are able to be relaxed driving the rs , knowing all u know about them at this Stage , I couldn't as strange as it sounds , I would have no respect left for the car , and he joy of owing it would be gone for me , but what do u do , u said before about resale value etc , I would say it has definitely gone down on n resale value , more so than any of them he other cars u compared it to in that video , as it's well know that engine failure is the rs common fault now , I hope it works out for u , really do , I just don't c it , it's not as if ford have completely redesigned the engine and put it in your car or any other rs for that matter, I say what ever they have done , buys them more time ( not as quick to fail again ) until rs's run out of dealer covet etc , think u are stuck in between a rock and a hard place ,
My original Rs is to Loud fore me in daily use. People getting mad of my little blue one. Stile original motor at 10000km. I hate only one manifold exhaust going out of engine into turbo. I am sure this will Kil engines. And cylinder open deck construction. I think motor have 2 problems.
Knowing ford and GM cars it possibly the same engine they hope new engine will break after the warranty and they will charge you for their mistake. Did they extend your warranty. I'm sure they wouldn't have done that
take the break in period with a pinch of salt as long as its warmed up an cooled down it will be fine. engines arnt like the old days!!! at the end of the day its made for power. Enjoy it 😁
Yeah but the rs engine can not take the stresses put on it,!resulting to headgasket blowining,warping head and block,ford are keeping quiet about it,!!
As the bloke with the BMW I can only say that in terms of handling the RS is waaaaay ahead. The Ford is so planted. In a straight line there won’t be much in it. The BMW is a comfortable cruiser with a punch (the M performance kit is awesome), whereas the RS is a full blown track car that can be used to cruise.
Gee G it was loads cheaper G. I paid £43k for the BMW and then another £2k for the M-performance kit. It has a full house (except the seats which are standard). A standard 440i will run you about £36k. So same ballpark as a Focus RS. BMW give good discounts off everything but the M’s. The M4 new was going to run me around £63k. So for £20k less I have a car which is more comfortable and produces 370+ bhp. That said the value of the BMW drops quicker than a stone. I wanted new and don’t plan on selling anytime soon so I’m happy to pay for that.
You do know launch control puts incredible strain on everything? Might only be at 5k rpm but the golf r for example, warranty gets void after a certain number of launches
+Jack Gedge Ford put no such limits on it, there's no counter, nothing. Use of it is fully warranted. They even, at technical presentations to RS enthusiasts, advise and encourage side stepping the clucth and flat shifting through the gears for best results!
MarkCup70 the clutch isnt going to last long with side stepping thats a fact. I can guarantee that if the clutch goes it wont be covered, as its wear and tear. If you read the small print it'll be there, clutches are consumables just like tyres so youll be told to pay plus the labour. Engines on the other hand arent which is why you were covered. I still think the engine failures are due to abuse tbh
Jack Gedge these engines are failing due to what seems to be a design fault.There is lots of information circulating on the internet about failures and what people think/know is the problem. Open deck design on the block/incorrect or inadequate head gaskets etc
Unless the motor is hand assembled factory hi output cars are a crap shoot. For the people that hate on brands keep this in mind, your favorite manufacturers has and will make junk that is sold to the public.
If you want opposite lock get a rear wheel drive the Honda is a far better car faster on a track 2 least you can hammer 🔨 the type r not like your weakling ford engine
Launch control won't work if the engine isn't fully warmed up. I've done this a few times when I hadn't let the engine get fully and properly warmed up, engaged launch control, then it just bounced off the limiter rather than staying at 5k. Also if you let out the clutch in neutral while waiting for the light with launch control engaged, it will disengage launch control. It's easy to miss the "LC" going away, then put in the clutch, shift in to first, floor it, and it'll just bounce off the limiter.
My RS now has 48,500 miles on it with the original engine (I had the head gasket recall done, but it was never getting coolant into the cylinders), and I run it *hard* and in Sport mode with ESC off almost all the time (so I can kick the back end out whenever there's the perfect moment of low-grip surface, wide road, and no traffic).
Drive the hell out of it and enjoy it, *especially* while it's under warranty. It's one of those cars when driving at 6/10 is kind of "eh... doesn't seem that fast...", but if you drive it at 10/10 you realize "ooooh, it loves a good thrashing!"
You keep on going Mark, it's going to take more problems than you've had before you give in, I bet Ford can't believe you have kept that piece of crap😂 it's actually getting past painful watching your vids and it's now becoming funny, your actually looking at the weather improving as a positive in all this, brilliant!!
I was a Product development Engineer for Ford for 17 yrs in there steering division. I do know that We Engineers do care about field problems and don't always get notified when problems arise. Stay persistent with your complaint and it will get solved.
very nice of you to share
I am a fellow West sussexer and I really enjoy seeing a local channel flourish
That bimmer sounds amazing!
I'm not an rs owner, or planning to buy one, but I find your videos excellent and very informative. Fingers crossed ford have fixed it.
I think your videos are great !! I love how persistent you are ! I get mine in March (can wait ) your videos have been great for me, so thanks 👍😎⭐️⭐️⭐️⭐️⭐️
Can’t !! Not can haha
+Michael Hesford thanks Michael! Believe me when I say it's worth the wait (I had to wait 7 months for mine), engine issues aside they're fantastic cars to drive.
MarkCup70 7 months 🤪 I’ve waited 12 months so I know how you feel ! I need a big deposit so I could afford the payments !! Seriously though thanks mate 👍
Hehe.. It's beyond me why anyone would still consider owning an RS at this point!
Martin I see what you mean. But the focus rs is my dream car and hopefully mine won’t have any problems with it being a new engine ! Fingers crossed
Hi Mark. Thanks for your videos. They are quite enjoyable. 'Road & Track' has a good article about RS engine failure in its 28.12.17 edition. In brief, what happened is that the 2.3 L engine gasket for Mustang is similar to the RS'; for several production runs -- eg April - July 2016 -- Saarlouis installed the wrong gasket, thereby leading to engine failure. Some unfortunate owners had subsequent failures when, again, the wrong gasket was fitted. Hope that the correct gasket was installed for your second engine. Cheers.
Bought my RS MK3 from the same Ford, stonking motor, very very happy with it, love your videos 👍
Stephen,
Keep us up to speed with your ownership, over time and mileage?
Brand new, used demo (what mileage) or delivery mileage stock?
keith morris, it's a 67reg collected Sept 02nd 17 current mileage to date is 1865, running standard, absolutely perfect so far
MarkCup70: FOMOCO's 'Customer experience' Nightmare! Keep up the good work! :)
Hello Mark, you will get no response from the local ford dealer. I have seen a document on how to avoid warranty claims on the focus rs. Dealers will be looking for any upgrades that are not authorised by them. They knew about this problem before the car was launched. As a mechanic with 35 years of knowledge this is my opinion of why these units are failing. The block they are using is a open deck. Anyone who knows anything about turbo or forced induction engines is that open decks dont work. This problem will never go away. Under heavy boost conditions you will get movement of the bore causing head gasket wear and distortion of head and in bad cases the block. All fords have done is a modified head gasket and changed the torque settings of the head. I am waiting on delivery of my focus rs edition and very concerned that secondhand values are falling because of the bad press. Fords need to come clean and recall these cars and fix this problem.
Did you happen to take a picture of the "document" you seen?
Thought not.....every marque will void warranty with out of house modifications.
Hello
I have the 29 page document that has been sent to all ford dealers
Link it then, please and thanks :)
We know open deck blocks are sub par....so why did they use it ? Desperate for a cost saving ? Doesn't the ST have a closed deck block and it is a similar engine.
I have been involved in the design of highly boosted world rally car engines and world rally cross engines that are completely open deck and work fine. Now I know the mileage is much lower but to just say that boost doesn’t work with an open deck is not correct.
Wow,the Beemer....thumbs up!
Hi Mark. My 2018 UK RS Edition with an late October engine has failed launch control exactly as you described a few times. I put it down to everything not being up to temperature properly.
I've had my Mk3 RS for over a year, low mileage but I do make sure it's properly warmed up before I go out for a spin which is never less than 20 miles, not had the engine issue yet but was interested in your take on it being down to hear cycles - made sense to me.
Anyhow cheers for the vid and I hope your new engine keeps working well.
Matt Carling your reply disappeared, but just to let you know I'm enjoying all 3 of my cars, especially the RS - thanks for the concern and Happy New year to you ☺
Hi Mark, what do you use to capture audio in your car? Is it the go pro built in microphone or something else?
Mark,
It would be interesting to know how many weeks lead / delivery time these days if you were ordering on the factory ? Any idea?
Have all the Editions including the Red, allocated to UK ,now been taken up?
I am shocked to hear of this engine issue in this day and age. Very interested of how you get on.
I’m really chuffed for you but the launch control issue and the obvious engine failure is just so poor for a performance car in 2017. Left Ford a while ago after owning a Cosworth which drank a litre of oil every 100 miles when driving over 100mph (in Germany when I was in the army). Also ironically had an army mate whose RS2000 had a head gasket failure at 2000 miles from new. I drive a reliable V8 now and I wouldn’t want to be driving a car that could potentially let go at any time. But good luck with yours and I sincerely hope you don’t have any more trouble. I admire your loyalty to the brand and your vlogs are honest and informative too.
How does the launch control in a manual work. Just engage hold a 5k and dump clutch?
You could re-brand the engine cover from Ford Performance to Ford Palava
Good to see you got a new engine. I can't see how the faults have been cleared with a new engine. I've known a couple of rs focus needing a second engine. Hopefully u don't but am definitely no convinced that it's been sorted.
Mark, Me again! Have you seen the recently published video around the fact that this may have been an issue with the wrong headgaskets being supplied by the supplier and fitting unknowingly it seems by ford?
Hope it doesn't fail again...several mates are waiting for their 3rd and one his 4th engine...
Could quite possibly be that if it played up only the first time you used it after the new engine it could of been learning its parameters.
Mark hope your well have you heard about the limited edition in orange
Road and track did a little bit of digging and found a reasonable explanation for the failures, mostly resulting in the misuse of the mustang head gaskets that uses different cooling jackets than the RS.
440 sounds crazy
Hello Mark. Does the RS has a comfortable ride?. I'm asking these because I see you jumping a bit in the seat during your videos and I guess that is probably due to the road vibrations. It is comfortable as a daily car?. Do you know if this RS motor problem has been solved in new cars?. Cheers ;)
Could it be that it wasn’t up to temps Mark? I tried mine the other wk and it done the same as yours, rev’ed right to the limiter! I’m sure mine wasn’t warm enough on the oil temps, I’m gonna try it again soon and see if it was a one off🤞
I have had my launch control bounce of the rev limiter once. That time I had the parking brake enabled. My car's engine was built in February of 2016. So it might be a glitch that exists on all cars.
Mark, What kind of GoPro metal seat's support do you use?
+André Correia my next video will show this André.
I have experienced the launch control failing to limit the rpm to 5000 a few times on my ‘17 RS. Seemed to always happen when the oil temperature wasn’t quite up to the center mark. The water temperature would be fine but the oil temps were a little low. When I tried again after the oil temp came up it seemed to work as advertised.
+SDB Guitars it does seem to be the case. My engine was warm when I tried it but probably not 100% up to temperature.
Good stuff Mark. Have you checked the coolant temperature using torque pro? With the theory on overheating CHs that might be interesting information. I tried with a different OBD2 device but could only get temp readouts at +/- 85°C, so it seems to me that the temp data are "clustered" even coming from the ECU.
I've monitored coolant temp and it's not been as you've described. From a low start point I see them smoothly climb as the engine warms peaking at 100°C. They certainly don't seem clustered.
That´s interesting. I´ll give torque pro a try then as well. Thank you.
Hi Mark. Got an update as to why the ford RS has issues. It's really a simple issue
Mark did you double check that the engine number was stamp correctly?
Does your service record manual booklet show the installation of a replacement engine . Or is it only on Ford Service online service records system . How is it done?
+keith morris the confirmation in writing that Ford fitted a new engine I'm still waiting for Keith. I will get something, I have to, otherwise any prospective buyer could suggest I fitted the new engine myself!
Mark ,
Their next comment ,not in writing to you, will be, it is on your Ford's vehicle records online,not in your service book and stamp as such . Not visible to a new owner should you sell privately.
The issue is ford have been using the head gasket from the mustang. It's not the same engine at all. But someone packaged the same head gaskets for both the RS and Mustang. Coolent is blocked and bubbles and eventually breaks the engine. Hope this helps
It can not be truly fixed, it is a fundemental head block design fault.
Hi Mark, a couple of questions for you.
1. I noticed in this and other videos, you frequently use the E brake when at a stop, before setting off, do you find this better than just using the clutch/gas/service brakes? Do you always use the E brake?
2. What is the Mfg recommendation for using the launch control? It seems that it would be very hard on the cars driveline, so I was wondering if Ford gives guidelines on how often it can be used etc. The same for drift mode. Im not sure how hard this is on the cars driveline, seems like it would be considering deliberately oversteering would put a lot of stress on the cars components.What says Ford? Cheers. Love your videos, particularly your vlog on the RS. Look forward to what you have in store for us in 2018. Happy New Year!
I must commend you on your driving position Mark... it's "perfect"...!
By the way... all 4 pot Ecoboost I have heard are a bit "tappety" as you say. It's a lot to do with the plastics that are sued on the engine these days. (Intake and roccker cover).
The only way ford will sort this is to redesign the engine block and head but that would be disastrous for them that's why they're keeping quiet not even telling their Frontline staff that's why they can't tell you anything !!
Mark, I'm pretty sure launch control is somehow effected when handbrake is on... I've had same thing happen but only ever when handbrake is applied, though sometimes works fine when handbrake is on! No idea why!
im actually looking at a mk 2 focus as my little corsa will be sold on im getting tired of friends struggling with getting out the back and i canr see where the front end is, the boot is too small for our shopping, and 65hp seems a little weak for 1100kg.
Could you please do a video of how to data log and getting those graphs? I guess you are using a obd2 Bluetooth Adapter and Torque Pro or Dashcommand?
+Marius Roetzel that's correct Marius, Bluetooth and Torque Pro. It's on my list of video topics to cover but since my engine failed it's kind of dropped down a little. I will get to it soon, early in the New Year hopefully!
Just wondering.
Whether the dealership responds first or the engine dies out again ;)
P.S. Hope the latter does not happen again of course :)
The exhaust on the BMW sounds epic.Think your fighting a lost cause with this RS mate.
Exactly the same response I got when I asked about engine changes from the early engines. Told to speak to the dealer, the dealers know nothing....obviously not willing to comment as whatever they say could be used by customers with out of warranty cars to get a fix if engines fail later if a fault it owned up to...
Hey Mark another great video. A tool resource you may want to use to complain to ford. You have probably heard of Martin Lewis - the money saving expert you see on BBC all the time. He has a website called Resolver and it makes complaining to companies so each as it drafts formal letters and has the contact details for various department levels. Worth giving it a look mate.
Ford Engine numbers are the last 8 of the chassis from factory, subsequent ones must just be numbered the same?
Hi Mark, been following your story closely. I currently have an RS edition on order and have asked the same questions of Ford and pointed them at a number of online videos around the engine failures as I would like confirmation of the fix before I part with 38k! I was asked to speak to my dealer who couldn’t answer, they then told me to speak to Ford customer relations who pointed me back to the dealer. It was then back to Ford CR before I have now been asked to physically write to the technical department who maybe able to help. Not sure if you had this feedback?
I've not got to that point yet Chris...but putting something in writing is likely to follow at some point. I'm waiting on the dealership to come back to me with some, but not all, of the things I've asked for...and also a few pictures they took while the engine swap was in progress. Let me know how you get on with the Technical Department.
Problem with engine head gasket is that they used the same gasket from mustang eco boost. Mustang engine cooling is different than the ford rs. There labeled the gaskets wrong.
Fix Or Repair Daily.
Found On Road Dead.
There, that's those two out of the way...please try and be a little more original!
MarkCup70
Four old rusty doors?
Forever on ramps daily?
A little more original!!
MarkCup70 ford are not telling you the truth please contact me have info for you asap
+MrStamford78 ha ha, I applaud your efforts!
Flog Or Regret Daily
Dagenham dustbin
Well that was a very monotone video. Interesting to see how the new engine compares to the old
Have you had the "unable to select mode" warning come up yet? It's just started doing it on my RS and because it's intermittent I don't know whether the dealership can do anything until it actually shows permanently.
As to your back and forth with dealership and Ford relationship, this happens all the time. They know full well about what's wrong with these cars but will not own up or admit anything. Which is frustrating when you're trying to get a problem solved.
I had a cutting out problem a couple of years back with an ST. Dealership said they had never come across it, yet I had seen many postings on social media and the internet about the issue especially in the US where they said Ford US was aware.
Basically they said I was talking bollocks. So I cut and pasted some articles, sent a complaint to head of Ford UK. And within a week the dealership sheepishly asked me to bring the car in. Dagenham instructed their technicians on how to cure the problem, and the service manager gave me an apology through gritted teeth. So I know how you feel with your dealership at the moment and can only suggest you force them to give you answers.
They are good at taking our money but not so good at helping when things go wrong.
Best of luck.
Finger trouble with the buttons to set up Launch Control I think
Hey Mark, Have you experienced the horrible wandering left right when pulling hard in 4th or 5th gear? Just discovered it in mine, it's bloody awful!! Hey.. did you know 85% of all Fords ever sold are still on the road?
The other 15% made it home.
+Nige haha, touché! No wandering at all in my car. I personally think the ultra quick steeting rack is the problem Nige, it's super sensitive, mm inputs can have your changing lanes.
Saw an article on facebook about the headgasket problems some RS have. Something about a focus rs engine with gasket from the mustang 2.3 ecoboost. 2 different engines but they used some of the mustang gaskets in the RS. Dunno if that was also tje problem with yours....
I think it probably was Frank. As more and more information comes to light it does seem that the failures could be due to something as simple as that!
MarkCup70 are you from west sussex, you drove past me haha
Dn wd Mark is a Sussex man alright. We have some great roads here and with Mark’s proximity to Goodwood, some great places to enjoy 😉
Thanks for the vid very good honest information I've got one on order but to be honest I have my doubts about this engine & the so called fix, as we all know a car salesman will tell you anything to try and convince you ????
My rs does the same thing idk why as of now
Sell it before the used prices go through the floor which it will.
Fezza said his RS felt more perky and just generally better after the engine change too. Maybe it is placebo, but I suspect not. The BMW 440 certainly sounds more lively, but I'm glad that owner doesn't live near me, its the last thing I'd want crackling and popping away first thing on a cold winter morning just as I'm trying to get some kip after a night shift! Seriously guys, if you live in a high population density area, please do your engine demos somewhere else. Fortunately, manufacturers have realised that it can be a bit anti-social to have engines sounding like this in residential neighbourhoods and are introducing "good neighbour" modes that dial back the sound FX for a few minutes after start-up, it gives you a chance to get on the main roads.
My friend has just got his 2017 audi rs3 and audi told him for the first 1000 miles not to take it past 4000 rmp think that should be the same with ford because 5000 rpm is a little to close to the limiter hope your warming the turbo up and cooling it down properly. I'm thinking of purchasing a focus rs and I do I certainly won't be doing launch control until it's properly worn in
+Barrie Kingston I had no intention of launching it Barrie, I was in a traffic queue at the time I tried it, I only intended to demonstrate the noise and how it holds the RPM at 5k. As for running in guidelines, Ford are very specific, maximum 5,000 rpm and maximum of 75% throttle. As that's what they say, that's what I do.
MarkCup70 oh I get that mate totally your doing basically what ford say you can do mate.just think 5000 rpm is abit much.i know for a fact if I get one I won't be taking it that far and after 1000 miles I'll be getting it serviced for peace of mind.just hope ford have sorted the fault and hope your second engine is as it should be
It's fine, after a few hundred miles it's pretty much where its gonna be....
Barrie Kingston I agree with your statement, and would take what ford say with a pinch of salt, but in his case the engine will probably not last long enough to worry about longevity! :)
You think there would put a option for flappy paddles for the rs
That would completely ruin the RS! For anoyone that doesn't like driving there's always the RS3 or A45 to satisfy their paddle clicking needs.
MarkCup70 as I said it should of been a option to have it or not I would if I owned one but with all the problems don’t think I want one
I suspect Ford are slightly nervous of you, data loggers, detailed history, and of course your TH-cam reports. I admire your tenacity and considered approach to this whole story, I’m watching with interest and wish you and the car some good luck in the coming year!
So, I have to ask.... 232 days, a replacement engine, wonky launch control, and the runaround from customer service... Do you regret selling your Fiesta ST? Obviously the Focus RS is brilliant when everything is working properly, but is it so good still that the benefits out-weigh the inconveniences you have experienced/are still experiencing?
When you put it like that my ownership experience sounds terrible but the reality is very far from it. The launch control glitch happened once and in 8.5k miles I've only launched the car 6 times so that's no problem at all. As for the engine replacement? It was dealt with swiftly and professionally...yes I had a Kuga for two weeks, but aside from that the process could not have been handled any better by Ford or the dealership. Do I want or need the answers from Ford I'm asking for? Not really...but it's fun to keep chipping away with the slight hope that I might just get something in writing that could be internet gold!
As for the ST...regret? Not at all. Having said that I'd happily have another. I'm off to see a buddy today who's got a 2013 ST2 with only 20k miles on it...in a few more year's time I hope to have that very car on my driveway as a daily if I can ever convince him to sell it to me!
MarkCup70 so one out of 6 times the LC failled...
Great to hear. I began watching your videos a few months ago because I was considering purchasing a Fiesta ST. Thanks to the thorough nature of your youtube episodes, I was able to make that purchase with added confidence. As of last week I'm the proud owner of a Certified Pre-Owned, late 2013 built, Fiesta ST in Race Red with 29k gentle miles on it. Having owned a variety of cars over the years (from Mk1 Golf's and Mk2 GTI's to big block Chevelle Super-Sports) this is is without a doubt the most fun to drive car I have ever experienced.
Having watched your videos and learned how much you appreciated your FiST, it's been heartbreaking to see the trouble you've been experiencing from the Focus RS. Hopefully you're through the disappointing bit, and the car will be trouble-free from here on out. Thank you for the videos, and thank you for the response to my question. May the FoRS be with you!
@Bruno Danese. I think it's technically 1 of 8 times. He'd launched it 6 times without issue before the engine failed, then once for the attempt where LC failed, then once again when trying to duplicate the issue for this video. (That's 6+1+1 for you Clue/Tim Curry fans out there)
Tappety noise sounds like HPFP.
I've seen on TH-cam,the rs engine is an open deck block,so no support for cylinder walls,they did it for better cooling,but it wears the headgasket, and stresses the block,!
John Easton my volvo 850 R is open deck too, 450.000 km on its first head gasket! And still good
John Easton interesting
Have not heard that one yet. I think it is insane how multi million dollar companies are all saying different reasons.
John Easton Well if you've seen it on TH-cam it must all be true!
So these are basically the same issues as on the focus st mk2 with the cylinder liners cracking because they had no support due to the cooling channels between them? There were these shims you can insert in the cooling channels to support the cylinder liners... But as far as I remember this fix was also not a 100% safe solution.
that's because it's no comparison to the power output, your engine is not stressed from performance.
hey mark. I was curious to know if you make money from your youtube videos ?
Sounds like an old 1.3 bonus engine cold lol
Must admit i would not buy this car new now if i was inclined and especially outside 3 yrs after warranty has ended.
Trade it in for a type r problem solved
Im not an RS owner but id take the RS over the BMW anyday. 440bmw just a poormans m4..The RS has something quite special about it. Pitty about the engine issues but if ford can sort that out once and for all i would consider one
Snake Plisskin its still a boring bmw
.. no doubt its a great car but in my eyes doesnt have enough appeal like the M cars do
Jon Gray It’s is absolutely not a poor man’s M4... It’s a much more civilized car than the M4 is. A relative of me has traded his M4 for a 440i because he got nuts in the M4 doing almost 25k miles a year. Now he has a much more compromised car, with that smooth 8 speed ZF and less firm suspension. He loves M cars, but not for his business trips...
aha my brother got the turbo noise suppressed because it literally sounds like a turkey :P
Did they not reset your mileage *??*
K9 JSB They will never reset the mileage for an engine change most the dealers won't even add the previous mileage to a newly fitted speedometer!
JayJayJaroo It’s a new engine.. the mileage reflects on the engine ?
K9 JSB mileage also reflects on the chassis, et al - engine just a small part of that; so when changing engine you have to continue the mileage as to not do so would underestimate the mileage on the rest of the chassis.
Know this is an old video. But I’ve no idea what type of answer you expected from the Ford dealer or Ford customer service?
Expecting them to put it in writing that your new engine won’t fail is simply unreasonable. They’ve got no idea what your driving style is like. No manufacture in the world will be able to say that an engine won’t fail. All they can do is honour the warranty. If it blows again, it is what it is and they rectify under warranty
Launch control wont work unless the car is up to correct temperature.
Hello Mark, under the consumer rights act 2015, the first six months,
If you discover the fault within this period after buying the car it is presumed to have been there since the time of purchase, unless fords can prove otherwise. During this time, its up to fords to prove that the fault wasn't there when you bought the car. Its not up to you to prove that it was.
If an attempt at repair or replacement has failed, you have the right to reject the car for a full refund or a price reduction, If you wish to keep it.
There is unfortunately a exception to the rule is that a motor vehicle, where fords may make a reasonable reduction for the use you've already had of the car after the first 30 days. If you prefer to keep the car you can request an appropriate price reduction.
Hope this helps mate.
Can’t use launch control if engine isn’t warmed up
This I now know. I thought it was warmed through enough when I tried it (I wasn't going to actually launch but just wanted to hear the brap brap brap) but clearly it wasn't!
I wish I could afford your car (rs) have loved the look and all the stats about it , if I could have afforded one I would have bought one as well, but in honesty, the engine fail, would have been enough for me to sale it after I got it back from ford , u seem like the type of lad that's a bit OCD about things !!! How u are able to be relaxed driving the rs , knowing all u know about them at this Stage , I couldn't as strange as it sounds , I would have no respect left for the car , and he joy of owing it would be gone for me , but what do u do , u said before about resale value etc , I would say it has definitely gone down on n resale value , more so than any of them he other cars u compared it to in that video , as it's well know that engine failure is the rs common fault now , I hope it works out for u , really do , I just don't c it , it's not as if ford have completely redesigned the engine and put it in your car or any other rs for that matter, I say what ever they have done , buys them more time ( not as quick to fail again ) until rs's run out of dealer covet etc , think u are stuck in between a rock and a hard place ,
My original Rs is to Loud fore me in daily use. People getting mad of my little blue one. Stile original motor at 10000km. I hate only one manifold exhaust going out of engine into turbo. I am sure this will Kil engines. And cylinder open deck construction. I think motor have 2 problems.
Should have bought the Beemer !
Buy a Mitsubishi evolution. My 2006 MR spank Ford RS all day and night,still running strong 110,000 miles.
Usual Ford customer service
Knowing ford and GM cars it possibly the same engine they hope new engine will break after the warranty and they will charge you for their mistake. Did they extend your warranty. I'm sure they wouldn't have done that
That BMW sounds straight piped 😐
The BMW sounds like the RS did with a broken engine and missfire. Not good at all and a depreciation moneypit.
Mark your engine will fail again ford are not telling you the truth the engine is not fit for purpose!
take the break in period with a pinch of salt as long as its warmed up an cooled down it will be fine. engines arnt like the old days!!! at the end of the day its made for power. Enjoy it 😁
Yeah but the rs engine can not take the stresses put on it,!resulting to headgasket blowining,warping head and block,ford are keeping quiet about it,!!
Looking forward to you hurting that BMW sounds naughty
I am too Chris. It's amazing how a different soundtrack can change the character of a car!
As the bloke with the BMW I can only say that in terms of handling the RS is waaaaay ahead. The Ford is so planted. In a straight line there won’t be much in it. The BMW is a comfortable cruiser with a punch (the M performance kit is awesome), whereas the RS is a full blown track car that can be used to cruise.
launch control doesn't work with the handbrake hold ;)
It does...using the handbrake does not affect launch copntrol... th-cam.com/video/hHnO9VQSf00/w-d-xo.htmlm27s
oh okay. in my case it didn't work several times :/
GET RID OF THAT FORD!
Why did matey boy not buy an m4. A brand new 440i + mods can't have been that much cheaper than a proper M4
Gee G it was loads cheaper G. I paid £43k for the BMW and then another £2k for the M-performance kit. It has a full house (except the seats which are standard). A standard 440i will run you about £36k. So same ballpark as a Focus RS. BMW give good discounts off everything but the M’s. The M4 new was going to run me around £63k. So for £20k less I have a car which is more comfortable and produces 370+ bhp.
That said the value of the BMW drops quicker than a stone. I wanted new and don’t plan on selling anytime soon so I’m happy to pay for that.
You do know launch control puts incredible strain on everything? Might only be at 5k rpm but the golf r for example, warranty gets void after a certain number of launches
Jack Gedge I believe the Nissan GT R is 3 launches and thats your lot
+Jack Gedge Ford put no such limits on it, there's no counter, nothing. Use of it is fully warranted. They even, at technical presentations to RS enthusiasts, advise and encourage side stepping the clucth and flat shifting through the gears for best results!
MarkCup70 the clutch isnt going to last long with side stepping thats a fact. I can guarantee that if the clutch goes it wont be covered, as its wear and tear. If you read the small print it'll be there, clutches are consumables just like tyres so youll be told to pay plus the labour. Engines on the other hand arent which is why you were covered. I still think the engine failures are due to abuse tbh
Jack Gedge these engines are failing due to what seems to be a design fault.There is lots of information circulating on the internet about failures and what people think/know is the problem.
Open deck design on the block/incorrect or inadequate head gaskets etc
JayJayJaroo seeing how some are driven tho does make you wonder if abuse is part of the problem
Does RS stand for really shit ???
Mark watch legitstreetcars he explains about the rs engine
Think many have already with 400000 viewing in less than 3weeks. Good for the TH-camrs coffers then
Unless the motor is hand assembled factory hi output cars are a crap shoot.
For the people that hate on brands keep this in mind, your favorite manufacturers has and will make junk that is sold to the public.
trade it for a new type r and case closed
Wrong wheel drive, no dab of oppo needed, ever, no thanks.
If you want opposite lock get a rear wheel drive the Honda is a far better car faster on a track 2 least you can hammer 🔨 the type r not like your weakling ford engine
Everybody watch Legitstreetcars vid on RS engine then get on to ford!!