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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 9 ก.ค. 2024
- Do sleeping bag liners help? How much extra warmth do they actually provide? Do I need a zero degree bag, or can I just add a liner to my pack on those cold late season trips? I took the Sea to Summit Thermolite Reactor Extreme to Wyoming's Wind River Range and tested it for myself. This liner claims to give your bag a ridiculous 25 degree boost for just under $70. Is that really possible?
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My 2 cents: I use a sleeping bag liner for one reason only. As anyone who backpacks knows, even if you jump in a lake during the day to “take a bath” by the time bedtime arrives you might have used bug repellent or been next to a smokey fire. Needless to stay you are no longer clean. Climbing into a sleeping bag without a liner transfers all that bug spray, smoke, body oils, etc onto your bag. Bags are hard and expensive to clean. Use a liner and at the end of your trip you toss the liner into the washing machine. Yeah, the extra couple degrees of warmth are a bonus. Also during the trip I just leave liner in sleeping bag when I pack up so I don’t have extra stuff sack taking up room in my backpack.
I've never thought about cleaning my sleeping bag! 😆😂 Also I couldn't fit the sleeping bag with the liner into my current stuff sack so I would have to go a size up.
Do you not wear sleep layers? Me being clean or not is irrelevant as I have a set of long sleeve baselayers that is only for sleeping, and thus doesn't get 'dirty'.
Agreed. Clean (body oil free) bags insulate better.
This is exactly the reason I wanted to buy a liner bag. So much easier to wash on a regular basis. Plus I’m hoping that it will be a nice option to use in the summer (with or without a light blanket).
If the sleeping bag liner in this video provides an additional 25° to a sleeping bag I would be impressed. That could be a nice thing to have to extend the comfort range of a 20° bag during the winter months.
The only review where the liner actually got used. Instead of just weighing it and telling us how soft the material is.
The best about this whole video is that you are able to go on a trip like that with your mom!
What is says is that it adds *up to* 25 degrees, which is completely dependent on your sleeping bag. To get a lot out of these things you already need to be using a heavily insulated bag to start with. A 0 or -10 bag, something like that, is where these things really start to turn up the heat.
If your airing up your pad by blowing it up with your breath your taking down the R-value with your own condensation. A good mini pump makes your night warmer.
Water vapor actually has a higher R-value than air.
Have really come to appreciate my liner, and I have the next one up from yours that boasts 32 degrees! I don't know about that, but it is super cozy and makes a big difference. I'm a cold sleeper and get chilled easily but with the liner, I actually woke up sweating at one point and needed to vent big time! We were in about -10 Celsius and considering I had been uncomfortably cold last time I was out in -5 with no liner, I'd say they work pretty well.
I would too. They seem to be a point of contention on here though 😂
I've used this liner in Big Bear CA when it snowed and got down somewhere into the low 20's. Bag was a 30F so comfort around 40F. I was toasty and warm all night. Love this liner!
All the cool video aside, I just HAVE to mention how SUPER COOL it is that you hike with YOUR MOM!!!
I mean, damn she's badass!!
Did you say 67?!?!? Holly crap!
My mom is a bit older than her, and as healthy and amazing as she is! I don't think I could/would take her with me hikking!!
I would want to pamper her, not put her through challenges!
Amazing kudos to your mom!!
You should definitely take her with you. The challenges are the memories.
@@JonConti hmmmm!! Haha oh wow!!
Errmmmm ok. 😆😅😅
You are giving me the confidence to run it by her.
Let's see 😅
Would be amazing though!!
I have the same liner and it turns my three season bag into a three and a half season bag 😀
Love that you tried this out, I'm still torn about adding this to my supply but I am 100% a colder sleeper than you are, so maybe its the move.
Always enjoy your videos and look forward to new ones!!!
Why thank you!
I have used this sleeping bag liner for about five years now and I love it. While it doesn’t add no 25° to your sleeping bag, it’s probably fair that it’s 10 or so. My main thing is the comfort of it and it illuminates cold spots in your sleeping bag when you’re rolling around at night. It also keeps your dirty skin and oils of your body off of your sleeping bag and doesn’t permeate your feathers. It’s super light and mashed up pretty well. I always bring it if the weather is going to be below freezing. Sleeping cold totally sucks.
Would you pls kindly tell me the degree discussed is C or F?
F
Thanks for your contribution here. valuable data. I do wish you had used a thermometer for this experiment though. I understand that your hiking partner (go Mom! haha) was able to say the 2nd night was colder, but packing a simple thermometer to make this a solid experiment doesn't seem like to much to ask for such a highly produced video.
Totally. I mean I was planning a 50 mile hike with my 68 year old Mom through unknown terrain. Why didn't I put more thought into a sleeping bag liner experiment? That's why I hike and make these videos.... sleeping bag liner experiments...
I agree with you I think this proves nothing.
@@JonConti😂 👍
I use a liner .. and for nothing else except to keep my bag clean.
Any additional insulation is a bonus.
In colder weather, I have a lightweight 'jungle-type bag' that put inside one of my larger three-season bags, works pretty well.
Pack lighter or sleep warmer?
No contest .. Sleep warmer.
Now that I am older I mostly do 3 season camping in California with a wool blanket. I have found adding one of these to the wool blanket really make it more comfortable for me. Now I Now I am not testing the exstreams by any measure. I just want to enjoy my fishing or hunting in comfort while still enjoying nature. Thus makes my trip better. Plus the large orange color doubles a a single panel, plus in its stuff sack it makes a decent neck pillow.
Thanks for the input Rick! Cheers 🍻
I’ve always wonder about bag liners. Thanks for the video.
Thanks for watching!
Just stumbled upon your channel. I like your content and fun attitude. I have that same liner and love it. New subscriber!
I have a silk liner solely for the purpose of being able to just wash it when i come back home and i dont need to wash my expensive sleeping bag ruining the insulation in it. I can basically just open it up and hang it in the breeze for a few hours and it's good to go again. A silk liner does not add much weight at all.
Ya that would work. I just like the feel of wool better.
Whats letting you down is the sleeping bag. Get a good -10 below bag and fleecy liner, hot water bottle, parabolic heater ,.
good fleecy hat.
I have used the Reactor liner and cheap but thicker fleece liners. The Reactor adds 5 to 10 degrees I would say especially if you cinch it up. The cheap but thicker fleece liner (no hood) is warmer and more comfortable, 10 for sure. Regardless I sleep better with fleece next to my skin than the nylon/polyester that sleeping bags are made of.
I work on trail crews that spend 8 days at a time in the backcountry building and maintaining trails. I use this every night in my sleeping bag. It’s like a sheet
Great video! Thank you. I love that you get to hike with your mom! Made your video even better and I'm subbing now💗
Lol thanks! Everyone should hike with Mom 😀
That's exactly what I just commented.. how cool is that!
@@JonConti My age is 42 and I have 3 friends at least who lost their moms at a young age.. I know a lot of people who have a terrible relationship with their mom and so on. Then there are the mom's with bad physical health. And there's a lot of moms who aren't so adventurous haha. It's definately not something to take for granted. It's super cool to do this with your mom! What a blessing! Have a great 2023! And hopefully more adventures with your mom!
P.S. @cubweekly. Checked your profile. Hello sister in Christ 😀
Totally agree with Morgan Hillbilly. I bikepack and find at the end of the day there is in many cases just no good way to get clean before slipping into my sleeping bag. Not only does your bag get dirty and require cleaning, but the insulating value of a dirty bag just isn't the same. I currently use a silk liner which adds little in R-value but also adds little in weight and bulk.
Do you take your bag somewhere to get cleaned? I've never cleaned my bag, though I do do a good job of staying clean out there. I'm pretty diligent with my icy lake bath before bed routine.
All sleeping bag liners add a little bit of warmth, some a bit more than others and synthetic ones are supposed to be better than silk from what I have heard and experienced. They keep your bag clean, that's their main function and as long as they're made of a material that doesn't irritate your skin then a cheap one is every bit as good as the crazy-priced big brand versions that make unsustainable and outlandish claims.
Great job on your video Jon. I have been to the Wind River Range a few times and it's name is well justified.
Thanks! Ya the name is no joke.
I have one of those, should prob use it sometime. My pad and 25 degree bag have served me well in even 15 degrees. Don’t plan on being out there below that. Will check out your Mom. :) I’m getting up there and love seeing what older backpackers are doing.
Ya she's pretty cool
When I was a baby backpacker just starting out, I bought this sleeping bag liner because I knew I was a cold sleeper. I have since learned that a good sleeping pad is 90% of my warmth and I’ve been feeling super comfortable all night with my Thermarest Neoair XLite. However, I recently went on a summer backpacking trip and didn’t bring a sleeping bag, I ONLY brought my Xlite and this sleeping bag liner and I was perfect all night. I actually spent the first half of the night sleeping on top of the liner and xlite, then got a little chilled off and slipped into the liner and was the perfect temperature for the rest of the night. 10/10 recommend.
I have the Thermarest as well! Amazing pad. I use it in the winter.
+1 for the Nemo Dagger. I have the 3p and love it!
Ya give me more space! Who wants to feel like a sardine when sleeping?
I always find that I'm colder on my first nights sleep regardless of season or what bag I'm using. My body will adjust and acclimatise to the weather conditions so would have tested it on the third day. But i guess we are all different. Cheers!
I agree. Most sleeping bags advertise X degrees for a rating. My experience is that it is only to survive and not be comfortable. I totally agree with you on that.
That's a real dumb way of doing it isn't it 😆 Just call the bags by their comfort rating instead of making us search for it!
Actually all sleeping bags have 3 ratings. The rating of the bag, the second rating, you will be comfortable, but maybe a little cold. The last being, at that temperature, you will be really cold, but you will survive, but not get hypothermia. Some might say there is only 2 ratings. It depends on who you ask.
Also, there is a rating for men and one for women, because men naturally can deal with colder weather better. Who would have thought.
As far as being comfortable, some bags are lined with fleece. I've never owned one. But I do own a bag liner, never used it though. I can sleep through a blizzard. 🥶
Good video thank you 😊
You’re welcome 😊
whats the sleeping bag used in the video?
Hey, great video! I just stumbled across your channel when looking into the sts reactor. I will definitely check your other content.
What do you use to capture those beautiful timelapses? My Osmo action does a good job but it drains a whole battery in 3 hours unfortunately, so not good to use on a hike.
All the best!
Hey thanks! I use my A7siii for the timelapses.
@@JonConti Nice, but not suitable for my needs. :) I'll keep looking. Thanks for the reply!
Let’s go Wyoming. Love this place.
Super helpful video! I will say that Klymit’s r values are much lower than advertised! You may want to invest in a warmer sleeping pad instead of a warmer bag.
Absolutely! You're so right about the pad. I learned that winter camping. Bought myself that fancy Thermarest with the 6.9 r value. Works great!
Thanks for the video, I didn't put too much faith in those liner bags. Appreciate the honest review. That liner is pretty expensive too. 👍
Hope it was helpful!
I also want to do this at 67! Amazingly cool mum❤
May I know when you said degree, are you refering to C or F?
wow! Where its this place?
Why not carry a digital thermometer (Hi/Lo memory) and track the actual ambient temperature? Likewise, measuring humidity would be helpful since in cold weather, humid air tends to conduct heat away from the body (reverse of the effect it has in warm air)
Just cowboy sleep all the time
depending, I have 3 liners, diff thickness and they all add their own ratio of heat (the real hot ones pack as big as a sleeping bag and I aint kiddin ya)
Totally unrelated but you look so similar to this guy from “Superstore”. Great video!
But much taller and more handsome 😆
I need sleeping beg how do i bye
For the price that goes for you might as well use a silk liner. But yeah use one, use it all the time. It protects your sleeping bag and you can actually wash it. Use a bivvy bag for extra temperature addition. Use a blanket inside your sleeping bag or over it for added insulation.
That’s all my tips. I use one single sleeping bag year round. Three season bag, the add-ons make it four season (-10C lowest temp I had). In the summer nights I’ve used only the bivvy, liner and the blanket next to me in case I get cold.
I just got one of those sleeping pads for Christmas from my sons. I inflated it Christmas night for a test and the damn thing was soft in the morning. A slow leak it appears so pumped it up again, lay on it for a bit (really comfortable i must say) but the bag was soft again in the morning. Geez.
That sucks! Did they buy from REI? If so, real easy exchange/return. Klymit is a company out of Utah, I’m sure they’ll take care of you. But ya that would frustrate the hell out of me.
I use the USGI MSS system. Clothing and bags. Have slept comfy since confirmed down to -6 F. Used prima loft isnt hard to find. Just takes time.
I have that too and it’s really warm and comfy, but you’re sure as hell not taking it on a pack trip. It’s heavy and huge!
@@jasonlommen4769 I use components of it year round. Bivy and poncho liner mostly. During the winter I pack the 2 bags no issues. It only weighs 7 lbs. The PrimaLoft jacket and pants weigh jack and stuff compactly. Straps right to the lid of a LG1, ILBE Recon, and stuffs perfect into a Riflemans Ruck. I've used for weeks at a time in Tennesee, West Virginia, Virginia, Kansas, Kentucky and Colorado. Edit: I dont do speed run hikes though. I have rucked it 10 miles a day. I keep my weight to 50-65lbs.
Mom's a BADASS!😀
Lol ya she is
I have one of these. In no way it lowers the comfort rating beyond 5 degrees! I totally agree with you. I was hoping to get my 15 degree bag down to 0 as well. Lol. The one thing I hate about it, is it basically sticks to you when you want to role over
To add heat buy down tent booties , and wear fleece bottoms , or (divers undersuit) theyre the best fleecy lightweight suits you can buy , can be had cheeply in some places, they dont add 25° ' maybe 5 tops , two sleeping bags work better ,
I imagine someone has already said this, but the klymit static v has a true astm rating of 1.9, therefore it is not sufficient for cold weather. I would be curious how you feel about this liner using something like the Nemo tensor.
Just put out a video with the tensor and this thing check it out. I also did a video on sleeping pads. Learning how they test pads I’m convinced r values mean jack shit 😂. I’ve used that klymit down to 20 degrees and it worked great. While my sea to summit with an r value of 6.9 might as well be an air mattress I’d use in my house and not outside. 🤷♂️ I’m on a nemo tensor now though, great pad.
I have the klymit low rating one for summer and the insulated R4.4. I've used the R4.4 in 25°F weather and the bottom stayed warm. Felt like I was on a heating pad.
Is it true that your not supposed to blow up your sleeping pad with your mouth because it introduces moisture and can lead to mold
I've never heard that! Wouldn't surprise me though. There's a little pump you can get for your pads a lot of people take. In the winter you're not supposed to use your mouth because it introduces moisture and lowers the r-value.
First, you have a very cool mom!
I’m still looking for a warm liner that I can still use as a standalone sleeping bag.
Haha she has her moments! Someone liked the Sol emergency bivy sack as a liner. Said it's super warm. Doesn't look very comfy though.
I think a liner is a no brainer if you can fit it in your pack. Added warmth, keeps your sleeping bag clean, much more comfortable than the bare sleeping bag imo.
Also in summer, a cotton liner is great as another option to keep you cooler.
Way more comfortable than the bare sleeping bag. That's my biggest reason for using it. Now when I climb into a bag without one I'm like "what is this peasant set up I've got going here." 😄
@@JonContiYou mean the good ole Haystack Liner Supertwig Pro?
25 degrees is indeed a bold claim, not bulky to those of us who bulk for comfort, im the idiot carrying a basecamp sleeping pad around 😀
Hey I did that for a while too
I find that a sleeping bag liner gets bunched up and is really uncomfortable.
Nice to hear a different opinion. Think I might be just trying to buy a lighter sleeping bag and then have to have one of those rather than just getting the right bag!
Probably unwise
I see you use an air mattress. My opinion is if the ambient temp is 20 degrees then the air you are sleeping on is 20 degrees which will suck heat out of you. If you sleep on some kind a liner or foam pad that reflects heat, I think would be the better way to go. And depending on the time of year the ground temp could be 50+ degrees as opposed to 20. My $.02.
Ha! I just made a video about this. It's not out yet. You are very right! I have a Nemo foam pad that goes underneath the air mattress. I didn't take it on this trip because I thought it would mess up my super scientific experiment.
@@JonConti do you have advise on a fold up chair? Something that would fit in a backpack. Looking more for something like outdoor events like the Albuquerque Balloon Fiesta but can also be used for hiking.
@@The800Dragon The Helinox Chair Zero. It's pricey but it's a damn good chair. Won tons of gear awards.
Usually the pad is thin enough that the surface area of the pad connecting with the air is very small, so the heat loss around the edges is very minimal. The ground is a far larger heat sink with much more contact surface area!
I went camping last weekend where it was 25°F and raining at night. Ground was kinda still froze in eastern ohio. I used a klymit insulated air pad that's R4.4. I faced a nylon/foil blanket down on the floor. Slept in a slumberjack south fork bag with a wenzel camp quit inside. We stayed really warm and felt like we were sleeping on a heating pad.
The klymit v is now only rated only R1.9. I purchased one as it was then rated R4.4. I found it ok at 0°c but cold at -4°c. It is a comfortable mat though 🙂 Nice video btw.
Thanks! There are two Klymit V's. They have the normal Klymit V which is rated 1.9 but they have an insulated one as well rated 4.4 which I was using.
@@JonConti the insulated v lite klymit you use got a new rating from 4.4 to 1.9
the uninsulated has less than R 1,5...i think it was 1,3
The 1.9 R value is based on the new ASTM standard rating used by most of the mat manufacturers. It only shows the 4.4 rating was totally offset vs the reality.
Klymit lied hardcore about R values and now finally uses ASTM testing.
There are way better pads out there.
Alright I read up on Klymit's new rating and ouch. I don't know all the science behind the new ASTM and maybe it was just a placebo effect, but I like that mat. It kept me warm many times in below freezing temps. I was comfortable using it down to 28 degrees and I used it in those temps a lot. More than a dozen times. So I don't know why the rating dropped so low, but I trust my butt. And my butt stays warm on that thing down to 28 degrees.
As far as warmth is concerned, it is better to sleep with layered thermals than to rely on a sleeping bag liner. As a bag protector to keep it clean it is useful, but not much use otherwise.
Good R-rating on a Klymit? Don't they stop at an R-rating of 2.1 on the new standardized system?
I did this before the new standard system. Which is totally flawed in my opinion. I covered it in a winter sleeping pad video.
Tenkara😁🙌🙌
I use the Reactor Regular which is about half the size and weight also by Sea and Summit. I use the sleeping system referred to as MSS. Modular Sleep System. (check out the WEB) First layer is a light weight Bivy bag, One pound Down Sleeping Bag, sleeping Bag Liner, Ninja Suite (polypro long bottoms and long sleeve poly tops or skivies depending on expected low) Down Hoody ( Eddy Bauer , 16 oz about $35. Mix and match for the night temperature. Remember your body is searching for a tropical environment above 71 degrees. If you are sweating, take off a layer. If you are cold add a layer. Never wear anything to bed that you wear on the trail including socks. It takes about two weeks to acclimatize to temperature ranges of hot or cold. that will make a difference in the amount of insolation needed at night. Also factor in fatigue, dehydration, and food in your furnace. I live where there are wild swings in temperature so I can test at -20 or 110 during the year. When testing equipment, I use my test laboratory ( My unheated shed) where I can control for variables, such as humidity and wind. I also test my bike touring clothing the same way, by setting up my bike to a stationary stand, testing for temperature, time, work load, clothing layers. Perceived cold depend a lot on where you are from. Are you from Manitoba or Florida?
I don’t think you ever mentioned what was the temperature which is important for a video like this?
Interesting video But the most interesting thing was that you hiked 50km with you mom how much weight does she carry? And I hope I can still hike those distances when I’m that age.
I think she was at 20 lbs. Here's the video of our hike if you're interested th-cam.com/video/hEzdyNTS_Xc/w-d-xo.html
Sol Escape Bivy Breathable model is far better then the Sea to Summit Reactor. The Sea to Summit liner is to protect the bag and adds a little more warmth. The Sol Escape is only for warmth and does not retain moisture from you're body.
Dude good lookin out! I just looked that thing up it looks way warmer. The reactor was really comfortable, is that bivy comfy or just all about survival?
I don't understand the point of these things. If you're already wearing long underwear, a liner won't keep your bag any cleaner. It won't keep you any warmer than long underwear or another layer or clothes either (in fact it's probably less effective), so why not just wear another layer instead of a liner? I bring extra layers anyway in case things get wet - might as well use them instead of a bag liner. You can't wear a sleeping bag liner when you're not in bed. More useless stuff for the landfill.
It is a Pillow too
Never thought of that
What's up with the dollar store sleeping pad lol
How much does it help? It helps REI further the notion that if you take more stuff you will be happier. If you feel like you need this you actually need a better quilt. take 1 thing not two
Lol I take it you didn't watch the video.
@@JonConti busted...just being snarky
Lu kurang pake matras bang, jadi tetep masih dingin
Has anyone else noticed with this "fair experiment" we're never told the temperature he was sleeping in both nights !? That really was a silly review.
Who called it fair? I definitely didn't. I never said this was backed by science or anything. You know what's silly? Why anyone needs a review on a $70 sleeping bag liner. Just buy one and try it for yourself. And stop leaving comments on sleeping bag liner review videos. That's silly.
@@JonConti 5:13. Is it really necessary to get so defensive on the internet? Your defensive response to this comment only makes your review appear less valid.
@@jabby4201
Stop being a whiner baby. The item reviewed was great and it’s a solid product. Do your own review and put anything you like in it.
I'm disappointed with Klymit because their non astm r value rating is way off standardised ratings.
But I've used the insulated one in really low temps and I love it? I did a little dive on r-values comparing winter sleep pads. It seems like a really ineffective testing system. I have a 6.2 r-value pad that is no where near as warm as my Klymit. So I dont know. The Nemo Tensor is a great pad too I just got that one. Pricier though!
@@JonConti it's that thing about how everyone is different and what works for someone might not for another. I've got the Klymit pad and it was OK in winter settings for a while when I paired it with a folding foam mat that had a 2.2 R value rating. Snow on the ground, temps below freezing point, etc. Then I had a spring trip and the temp was around 40 °F and I took only the klymit, and the cold definitely passed through the pad. That frozen side butt/hip bone feel sucks (I'm a side sleeper.) Good on the klymit folks for openly acknowledging the ASTM difference.
His mom is cute asf
Never
ok
I find it super distracting when you are talking to the camera but looking at the screen off to the side.
Ya that’s super annoying fuck that guy
How on earth is it a comparison when you're testing it with and without on different days lol. What a joke. Even if the temps are the same there are sooo many other factors. That said that particular liner only adds 5 degrees max. I prefer the feel of a liner tho
The liner is utterly useless for warmth. It may have value at keeping your bag cleaner on the inside. But for a lb of weight, not worth it. Yes, I own one.
Well that’s like, your opinion man
This makes your 20 degree bag comfortable at 20 degrees. It will not take you past the bag rating by much.
Ya
You lost me at Klymit sleeping pad.
You’re cute.
Without even looking this video, i know the answer ....NO! I have that same Liner and its dog shit. Maby +2-3 degrees is more real.
After viewing the video, sure its more comfortable than cotton but including the price and the outrageous claim of temperature advance means (to me) that it is actually quite bad for the money.
@@klammi85 Your sleeping bag is cotton?
@@JonConti No, the liner is.
stop looking at yourself on the screen while filming, look at us through the lens