Greetings Backcountry Pilgrim_ Thanks for the awesome review of our TerraLite- we definitely appreciate it. A good night's sleep is crucial when you are in the backcountry, whether is a few nights out on a local trail or a few weeks in the Himalayas, and at WM it's our mission to deliver that comfort for all types of sleepers. Happy Trails, Western Mountaineering
Oh wow, y'all are the GOATs! I've been experimenting with a bag with 0 fill on the bottom, just a sheet of MEMBRANE 7 ripstop nylon. Have you all tested anything like that in your labs? You get the ultralight benefits of a quilt, and with enough bottom fabric, the freedom of movement, but without spilling all your warm air every time you twitch.
Same here man. Try to jam my arm up into the hood under my pillow, cry a little more, figure out where I have down shift freezing my ass, sleep just that little bit more purely out of exhaustion, then get up and start my day. But hey that’s what we go for right.
Here’s a tip for side sleepers I discovered by happy accident. I was bushwhacking near dark. I found a narrow flat spot but it had a large rock partially buried right in the middle. So I dug out the rock which left a hole. I was so tired I just laid out my pad over the hole and crashed. Next day I realized I had no hip discomfort. The hole acted as a hip hammock. I dig a small hole the size of a basketball every time now. Zero hip pain even with foam pads😊
I like my military bivy, with it's large foot box. I put the mattress inside preventing that gap. My quilt is either inside or on top. The military bivy can be placed on the ground or ground sheet, when stealth camping as well. Breathable raeflective layers are only begining to used, radiant heating losses are as important just like insulation and convective heating losses.
I’m a back, side, one leg or the other bent at the knee on my stomach virtually all over the place. I tried a quilt last season and it was so drafty as to be useless, I can’t stand mummy style so I’m on the hunt for a sleep system that will keep me warm and comfortable. Thanks for sharing.
I'm a 6.2 big guy who sleeps on my side, and I move around; I have a long Sea To Summit Trek III sleeping bag. I always have plenty of room to move around, I am very warm. I can unzip the whole bag when too warm or just the feet.
Man, I needed to hear this. Was completely convinced that quilts would work for me as a side sleeper, then remembered the last time I went camping with a fully unfolded sleeping bag to fit 2 people. Forgot how many times I would roll over and completely uncover my back in the process
Your video gave me a great idea: I will sew a sleeping pad sleeve under my sleeping bag to be able to toss and turn, with the bag staying in place upright. Cheap and effective!
Maybe you should consider just sewing some small loops on the sides of your sleeping bag and them make a separate pad sleeve that has some plastic hooks. Then you can just attach the sleeve to the bag with the hooks. I think this is less destructive in case the sleeve idea doesnt work, and you can also use the same sleeve with all your different sleeping bags just by adding the loops to all your bags.
This is about the most useful video on this topic. Was looking at the same price range and you demonstrated every position I’ve ever slept in. My disco is coming soon and I can’t wait to try it, thanks for the info kind fella!
Thank you, you helped me so much! I am a newbie camper and I´ve got a bag that is the tight mummy shape, just because it had good price to quality ratio. During the night I have realized that I actually sleep on my side with my knee up, same as you, and ended up with the claustrophobic feeling and crying during the night. Then I realized that maybe quilts are the right choice for me as they are wider but I am terrified of getting cold drafts during the night, so I was hesitating. Your video has helped me so much! I really think that the Nemo is the right choice for me. Thank you so much!
This is why as a front side sleeper that likes an 'leg out' I went back to an classic style square sleeping bag made by snugpak, it's an fully enclosed sleeping bag with 4 zips, 2 along the side and 2 along the bottom, it allows the bottom to be unzipped and your feet have freedom if needed, or the side completely unzipped to make an huge square quilt. Or any combination of such, even the bottom zipped up and a part of the side to make that classic winged quilt shape that keeps your legs in. Down sides is maybe the rating, it's only -5c comfort, -10c limit, that's enough for me in the UK Lakes for 4 season, I also have down pJs for if it's really any colder, the second thing is it's synthetic fill so it's heavy at 1.3Kg and isn't the smallest pack size 8inch x 7 inch though Inprefer synthetic insulation asnits stays warm when wet which it's always wet here in UK lakes.
You're the Man! I can't understand why its so hard to find sleeping options and reviews from all the know-it-alls, for a stomach sleeper. My back is killing me just thinking about an inflatable mattress on the ground. I don't know if this is going to work, but it's a good start in the right direction.
Dude! You're my SleepSystem SoulMate! I had pretty much decided to buy a quilt, even knowing the weaknesses you mentioned. But you have opened my eyes to those last options of wider bags and modified bags, which will serve me perfectly. I don't want to go thru buying several bags I won't like, so I will go straight to one of those. I see the value in your channel, and have subscribed. Thanks again, and see you on the trail!
I went with that WM Terralite. I've now had the chance to use it a few times and absolutely love it. Top quality product. It has more room than needed for a wide pad and even with wide shoulders I can easily slip my arms to my sides and pull em back out without ever feeling trapped. The craftsmanship put into these bags leaves no question why they are so highly regarded.
You know, I love the Cloud 20. On a group trip this summer, it was the most requested bag. But the aesthetics are just so awful! Sierra Designs, please change the look of this bag. I don’t want to look like a Boy Scout. I’m a sophisticated adult who spends a lot of time sleeping outdoors and I want my bags to look as good as EE, WM and ZenBivy. And while you’re at it, please upgrade the down and lighten the Cloud 20. Thanks!
I sleep the same way and yes, it's a real problem if you are outdoorsy. Nearly all sleep systems are made for people that can sleep on their backs or in the fetal position. Personally, I moved to quilts years ago and it works for me. At this point, I have four matching down quilts in different temperature ratings and sleep in one every day. One lives in my roof top tent, the others are kept in the bedroom for different seasons. JackRBetter are the best I've found. Reasonably priced, they are easy to work with if you want something larger or longer than normal, and they have all held up great with constant use. The "Katadin" is my favorite (very large and long). Though discontinues, JacksRBetter will still make them if you ask and are willing to pay for the material overage. The Katadin is large enough that it mitigates drafts very well when tossing and turning. It's basically a giant down blanket with a sewn footbox. When below zero, I've been known to nest two 20º Katadins together. That's a lotta down brother! It's all about the footbox IMO. Those that toss and turn have one heck of a time keeping their feet covered up.
I hadn't heard of those but they sound great! Since sleep systems also cater to small-to-mid sized folks, larger sizing can also be a challenge for sure.
Your intro about being a side/belly sleeper and slightly claustrophobic could have been my exact speech! I have used the 2023 version of the Zen Bivy Light bed. I actually like the full sheet better. I have the 25 degree bed and love it. It works well for me. I have had it down to the low 30’s and that was a little cold. But to 40 I have no complaints. I find that when it gets close to 40 if i stick the longer quilt edges into the hood that also make a big difference. May have to try the a buddies Sea to Summit on a few late season trips.
@@BackcountryPilgrimI just wish I had bought the 10 deg instead. Need something that can handle sub freezing temps for late and early season trips. May borrow that Sierra designs from a buddy and try it out.
I got the Nemo Disco 15 degree last year. Absolute game changer (for the better)! The hourglass shape is fantastic for multiple sleeping positions, and many great innovations since the last time I bought bags: the gills, the neck curtain, and the SNOWPLOW ZIPPER PULL, the thing rocks! I’m still keeping my eyes open for the perfect pillow, but so far a Costco box wine bladder with a piece of egg foam around it in a cotton tshirt pillowcase is working well.
Thank you for your video. I am also a side sleeper. Finding a good sleeping bag is not easy. You need a wide sleeping pad. I have now found one that is 30 inches 76 cm wide. It is too long for me. I had to make this compromise. After a long search, I ended up with a sleeping system from Zenbivy. I am very happy with it. Before that I tried a few sleeping bags and spent a lot of money on them. They were super flex or egg-shaped sleeping bags. But I wasn't satisfied with them either. I am a restless sleeper who often tosses and turns. Your videos are great. I like your videos very much. Greetings from Germany.
Thank you for this comparisons and the images of you using these. I"m looking for lightweight but also know that I sleep cold, and I sleep on my side. And I'm quite short. I bought a quilt thinking it was the answer but trying it out at home (no pad, on my bed) I realized it's absolutely not for me. It takes forever to get warm and every time I turn I get long lasting cold spots. So I was at a loss. Now I see other options for me (and realize that a zippered bag is essential for me to stay warm). Subscribed.
This was a very informative video. I am a pretty active sleeper. I am older so going light is very important for me. I changed to a 20 degree Zpack quilt a few years ago and it works well. If it’s going to get near the 20 degree mark I pack my Montbell down pants and down sleeping booties. If it’s going to be very cold I leave the quilt and bring my Western Mountaineering sleeping bag. Quilts are great but sleeping bags are the way to go if it’s really cold. I like that WM bag you covered. I do a lot of long distance backpacking so I generally just pack the quilt and hope for the best. I am generally fine.
I've used the Klymit KSB20 XL down bag for 5 years now. At 82in x 40in (girth/circumference of 78in) with a 650-down fill and only 3lbs, this bag is roomy and warm. This is by far the widest single person mummy style bag I could find while also being a bit stretchy. As a bigger camper, this is a necessity. The bag has a dual direction zipper so you can open the bottom to stick a leg out while still comfortably wrapped at the torso. It also has toggles to sinch up the bag length to reduce the dead space in the foot box for shorter sleepers. By far the best bag I've used ever. 😀👍
The sleeping pad sleeve is the gamechanger for those of us that toss and turn and fidget all night. Big Agnes, Sierra Design are the only two I know that have one. The Big Agnes Echo park / Diamond parks are humungous. I'm having a serious look at the Sierra Backcountry 650, it looks ideal for fidgets like me, though the Big Agnes bags all have a cool pillow barn that's really useful.
First off , YES ! The very best thing for a side sleeper or one who changes positions during the night is .. A NON- mummy bag with a pad sleeve . I am a 72 YO ,past medic from RVN who has tried almost every brand , size and design through the years . The very best for me , unless it will be HOT at night , or below 15 is . My Nemo StartoLoft with Downtech . 25 " pad up to 4" will fit in the sleeve and you can change pads depending on the season . Plus add wearing wool or down pants / jacket in cold weather . I have 3 WM bags also , including the WM Cypress GWS Expedition for negative #'s winter sleeping . A GREAT cold weather , roomy bag at only 4lbs 14oz .
I’m a big fan of my Big Agnus Anvil Spur. It attaches to the sleeping pad and is essentially a closed quilt, as there is no insulation on the back of the bag, additionally the zip runs all the way to my feet… but about that zipper, it can be a pain the butt. I’ve used in hunting in Alaska (Spring - May) and hiking the mountains of Utah (Fall - Sept/Oct) worked great.
I agree. I think the best of all worlds is a bag like the anvil horn. no down underneath but no cold spots when tossing and turning. another big feature being that when you do toss and turn (as most of us do) the warm air trapped in the down is far less displaced, making it very efficient.
Going on a year with the Nemo Disco 15 and I’m a side/stomach sleeper. The bag is awesome. Plenty of room for me to stretch out inside of without the extra weight and size. I also will unzip the bag and use it as a quilt when it’s above 40°, it honestly doubles as a quilt with a foot-box. I paired mine with the Big Agnes Insulated 25”x72” pad with the larger side baffles. As a 6’ 190lb side sleeper I couldn’t ask for a better combo.
I love my mummy sleeping bag, the MEC -7°C aquilina, but struggle to find a comfortable side position, so this year I got the Big Agnes Wedgie, which adds inches to my bag without me having buy a whole new bag!! I had to modify the zipper (right vs left zip) for it to work but I’m so happy with it
Thank you! Glad this was helpful. :) BTW, I made this video before tyring the Zenbivy system and I am a convert - you might want to check it out: th-cam.com/video/lS7EEh_V6Nw/w-d-xo.html
Going in first backpacking trip soon. I bought the disco before seeing your vid-exactly because I thought it would help this. I tried it at rei and it is so much more roomy than a mummy bag.
Another bag I want to throw in the mix here is the Sea to Summit Ascent (men's) and Altitude (women's) series. I have the Altitude 15 and used to use the Disco 15 as my primary bag. I like the S2S bag because it has a lot of cool features: foot vent zipper, full length zipper on one side, 1/3 zip on the opposite side, extra insulation in the foot box, mix of horizontal and vertical baffles. It also has a wider hood and less plush draft collar for those who find the Disco a bit constricting like I did. I find the shape of this bag is a bit warmer than the Disco as well because there's less dead space for you to heat up. Highly recommend!
The Big Agnes Anvil Horn 15 is a great bag for side sleepers. It has a sleeve for you pad and also a pillow barn for your pillow. It is a great mid range priced bag.
I sleep like you do, Pilgrim. I too use a Nemo Disco, but though rated to 15, for me it’s good to about 40F. For colder weather, I use a Feathered Friends bag rated to 20F (comfort level). This past summer, I got a Zenbivy Light bed rated to 25, which I’ll use at 35-40F. It’s extremely comfortable…better than the Disco. Definitely recommend you try it.
I use a Mountain Equipment Helium 800GT, the GT being the extra wide variant, with a Helium expansion baffle that adds 5 more centimeters. Super warm and wide enough to roll around in.
I have a design sleeping bag also with the hole in the bottom. I'm a stomach sleeper who loves to stretch out and move in my sleep, and my feet have somehow figured out how to sneak themselves out through the foothole whilst I'm asleep. Definitely given me a wake-up trying to figure out why my feet are feeling cold haha
I'm a 6.2 big guy who sleeps on my side, and I move around; I have a long Sea To Summit Trek III sleeping bag. I always have plenty of room to move around, I am very warm. I can unzip the whole bag when it's too warm or just the feet. The way I move, I can't see how a quilt would keep me warm. You will also need to buy a liner to have over the mat, to sleep on. I'm able to sleep 10 or 11 hours per night with no trouble at all.
Fantastic video! Thank you so much for your reviews of the different options. The nemo bag looks interesting- so I'll check that out - and retire my claustrophobic mummy bag :)
Just a little update since I saw your video and got interested in the Nemo bag :) In general your video got me thinking a lot about how I actually like to sleep - and what other issues I have with a traditional mummy bag - other than I am a side sleeper. It occured to me, that I also love to sleep on my belly with my arms above my head hugging my pillow. In mummy bags there are never enough space for me to do that, which in colder nights force me to keep my arms in the bag - so I did not go ahead with the nemo bag after all. I have now ended up with a zenbivy ultralight system, which I love more than anything. I have so much space for my arms because of the big hood - and they are kept warm. So even though I did not follow any of your recomendations, your video got me inspired to give more thought to how I like to sleep - and now I have found the best solution for me, my tossing and turning and my arms - so thank you again :)
You should a look at the Big Agnes Anvil Horn bags. Roomier than a mummy bag and with the sleeping pad sleeve. As a side/stomach/back sleeper I had a better night of sleep in this bag than I have even had in a mummy bag (or in the Nemo Forte, which I just replaced even though I liked it)
I have the Terralite and the Cloud 35. And of course I'm a side and stomach sleeper and those are the two top-notch. For any hot/summer just go ahead and throw on your long johns and almost any random down blanket. Don't go for the high dollar down blankets, not worth it for hot weather.
Nice! Thanks for this video. Although I found it a bit late (16 months), it's got great information for me. I've been using a Big Agnes Lost Ranger 15* for more than fifteen years and it's showing it's age. Big Agnes completely redesigned the Lost Ranger and it's nothing like my old bag and I'm not too keen on the new version. The Sierra Designs bag is very similar to the design of my old Lost Ranger that I like. And at just under two pounds, it weighs less than my old Lost Ranger.
In the course of a night’s sleep, I’m both a side sleeper and stomach sleeper. I’m thinking I will need a wide sleeping pad and one of the bags you showcased here before I head out to camp this fall.
Great info thanks! So interesting because it looks like we’ve been on parallel journeys. In addition to various WM bags, I also have both the Rift and the Cloud 20, in addition to EE quilts like the one shown at the beginning of your video. This year I’ve discovered ZenBivy and I’m getting great sleeps in the backcountry with my LightBed using an UL sheet. It absolutely cuts the drafts. I top it with my EE Revelation quilt (950 30 degree wide) in cold weather when I want the versatility of having a wearable quilt in camp. If I don’t need that, I’ll just bring my Rift. Have you tried ZB yet? Tell us your thoughts!
I'm about to where I can do one. I've gone from the balloon style to a full stuffed pillow haha. My usual go to has been the Nemo Fillo which is kind of in-between, but I want to see how I do with the full pillow before I do a full review video.
Side sleeper and toss and turner here. I used an exped wallcreeper recently and was shocked how good it was for lots of movement, turning, etc. The arm sleeves are very useful too. Overall i was super impressed, and now hopeful i can get better sleep in the backcountry.
I use a Sierra Designs Back Country Bed. They don’t make it anymore. It’s similar to the one you have except that the whole front panel flips down. I love it! If I have an emergency number one I can get out very quickly, not like the stupid, traditional sleeping bag with a stuck zipper that kept me prisoner and… well, you get the drift!😅
I've heard good things about that bed! I didn't realize it was out of production - I just started working with SD, I'll have to see if they are making something to replace it!
Great video. I have the Disco 15 and love it. It’s on the heavier side for light sleeping bags. Was looking into the Terralite as an alternative to shave off a pound as well as still have room to move around. Just a little concerned about warmth. Would you say the Terralite sleeps warmer than the Disco even though it’s a 25 degree? My Disco starts getting a little cold in the mid 30’s. I also believe you can order a Terralite overstuffed. Thanks.
Agreed. There's a video "Sleeping Bag vs Quilt--Infrared Proof" on "Adventures In Reach"'s channel that clearly proves how many BTU's a quilt loses with movement and those BTU's have to be ginned back up by body heat. I think quilts are great for moderate conditions, but once you have to include a lot of add-ons to a quilt to get it to perform like a basic sleeping bag (baffles, strapping, etc...), you might as well get a sleeping bag from the start and besides, nobody is going to benefit from the quilt's "open" configuration in extreme cold. As a matter of fact, for the price of a competent cold weather quilt (which would probably be too hot for moderate conditions), one could get a good quality 3 season quilt AND a good quality extreme cold sleeping bag and ALWAYS sleep right.
A note on the UGQ quilts, although a little more expensive, you can get them in 900 fill. And they're semi-custom made in that you decide the fill amount, the colors, etc. I use them in conjunction with different pad straps and stay quite warm. I am though shopping for a bag to add to the adaptability of my system, so Thanks! for this vid.
I’ve had the same experience as you with my Nemo quilt, and it’s cuz I sleep like you do, on my side and twisting around doing, as my wife says,”seal flops” .
I wish there was a cross between the disco and the Sierra Design Backcountry. I like the spoon shape and larger hood of the disco and the zipperles quilt and pad sleeve while saving space with no insulation on the back top half.
I use a cheap Amazon bag rated somewhere around 45-60 degrees with a small down quilt as well as a foam sleeping pad. Done ok in temps as cold as -20 up in the Rockies many times with that setup and some care in choosing a camp in a naturally sheltered spot. oh and a couple had warmers in the socks helps
If like me you need it for motorbike camping so pack size is not so much an issue the 2 i would consider are eurohike adventurer 300XL on sale for about £40 and the beast sleeping pod which is huge again for about £40 im probably going with the beast as its just so much bigger than the eurohike 300xl but pack size will suck
What a informative nice video! Keep up the good work!!!! Also look at the sequoia from western mountaineering. I have the gws version and it is a blast
I'm getting the WM TerraLite. Been using Big Agnes Torchlight UL 30 and just not warm enough for Utah mountains, not side sleeper friendly as very little fill on underside of bag.
I have the Nemo Forte 20 and at 6'2" and 220 lb I find the spoon shape has the room I need to sleep on my side. It has kept me warm at 25 degrees. I do agree the thermo gill are a great feature on warmer nights.
I have both the Disco 15 degree and the Torchlight UL20 both are very comfortable but the Torchlight is more customizable with its design features and can almost be “spoon shape” as well. I use both depending on my trips because the Disco is a little on the heavier side.
@@BackcountryPilgrimI can’t tell the difference in warmth between the two 🤷♂️ I bought the Torchlight last year on sale it’s an expensive bag for sure!
I’ve just started trail running / ultramarathoning instead of sleeping, just keep going and don’t sleep for a day or two. I haven’t worked out anything past that. I’ve yet to get a good night sleep on the trails so might as well keep moving. I hope one day to defeat the problem and get to sleep, until then I’ll keep it under 100 miles or so.
I love my Sierra designs quilt. One question, I had read some bags might have thinner insulation on the back side. Their ratings are not accurate if the bag is not in the intended orientation. Is that correct?
Hey, i can get the nemo disco for a great discount only its the long version and im only 181 cm or 5,9 inch. Will this be a big problem whit keeping me warm?
Technically it is harder for your body to warm up more space, but I got the long myself (5' 10") because I keep my clothes in the bag with me and I just put them down in the footbox at night. Works great!
Western mountaineering Alpinlite Works like a quilt just unzip it and leave the down up You can do this with any bag. Not sure how anyone couldn’t figure that out as quilts don’t work for everything but I have never worried about using a bag for everything
So I think your ideal sleeping gear is a down filled onesie? Joking aside, I am surprised you didn't mention Zenbivy. That system sounds close to your ideal system? I started using quilts in 2019 and really like them. I have a three season quilt and a winter quilt. I still have a few sleeping bags that I do use. Sleeping pad wise, I own the same exact Nemo Tensor but that Insulated Wide does not do well in winter. There is too much pad surface exposed to air. I'm still looking for a high R value wide mummy pad but in the meantime use the Nemo Tensor Alpine mummy (R4.8) combined with the Nemo Switchback (R2) for winter and snow season.
What timing! I have a Terralite waiting for me to test (& 95% sure purchase) at my local mountain store. I started having a little thoughts after seeing the Cloud’s innovative features, but then here you come solidifying my choice at the end. Can’t wait to pick it up. I’m an active sleeper in all positions. I bring an Exped Ultra 3R Duo M because it’s the only thing I can sleep on. I’m 5’10”, 220+ with screws and plates in my pelvis and a bad leg from a previous motorcycle accident. At 72” long, 41” at the head and 32” at the foot, it allows me to spin freely in my Tarptent Double Rainbow Li. Quilts don’t work for me. Mummy’s def don’t work. The Terralite I think is going to be a dream. WM also has an extender that adds about 3” to the top of the bag and tapers down to the girth if I’m still feeling confined…we’ll see how it goes first.
Thank you, I’m always worried it comes across as bragging, it isn’t. I just don’t want to buy things more than once. There really weren’t many reviews of it here. I initially went in to try an Alpinlite…once I crawled in I felt like a sausage, but more importantly I was actually compressing the down from the inside out. The owner immediately recommended the Terra. I’ll come back when I have it. One thing I did notice, the quality of the bags are phenomenal.
I have the terralite it is an awesome bag ..got mine from hermit's hut out of California took A-day and a 1/2 to get To Tacoma.. Mine has a 3 oz over stuff and is Just as roomy as a quilt inside without the drafts ,On the down Is side it does way 32 oz But it makes an awesome Winter bag.. And its quality build is something to Marvel over
You can also use a tapered bag, more room than a mummy bag but smaller than a rectangular bag. Don't seem to be as common but you can find them. I have one (with a hood) that's comfort rated down to 1c , and it fits inside a rectangular bag without crushing the down .
My idea- sleep under a camping blanket or unzipped square sleeping bag that does the same job. Obviously lie on your sleeping pad too. Now put all of that inside a roomy and breathable bivvy bag. The bivvy bag is draught proof and the pad will keep it in place as you toss and turn. Simple and cheap and lightweight if you choose the components carefully. My UK setup is an Alpkit hunka XL bivvy bag, a Snugpak jungle blanket XL (folded for doubled thickness) and a Dutch army surplus self inflating mat. I mocked it up with tiny plastic crocodile clips to keep everything in place but I'll replace them with poppers now I've proven the concept.
So I finally got around to finishing this... it's awesome!!! If you're going to take a bivvy bag anyway just add some snap fasteners to the grosgrain around the collar and clip on your camping blanket of choice. It acts like a giant sleeping bag if you've got a wide one. So much room!
This video was so helpful, thank you! I laughed when you saw how you sleep, it’s exactly how I do! Any idea if the cloud 20 would fit the Sea to Summit Ether Light XT pad at 4” thick?
@@BackcountryPilgrim thanks for your reply! The cloud 20 paired with the rectangular Ether at 25x4 is tempting but may be too big. Definitely leaning cloud 20 regardless!
Wow, I sleep exactly the same way; on stomach, with one leg out. Never could use a mummy bag. I learned, decades ago, to use a rectangular bag as a quilt. Sheet or liner over the pad. It's pretty much like sleeping at home. I don't use the zipper at all unless it is very cold out. The spoon shape and, especially, the roomy Terralite, look interesting. But what is the advantage over a rectangular bag that is certain to be more versatile and comfortable? A few ounces of weight, maybe. The pocket for the pad seems so obvious. How come it is so rare? Although I have always used sleeping bags out of habit, I would probably be just as happy with a lightweight blanket and sheet. Thanks for discussing this; it's the first time I've seen anyone mention the topic. I suspected that I couldn't be the only person who sleeps that way, but I was beginning to wonder. :)
I think it's more about thermal efficiency. A blanket would have to be pretty large to seal up the interior air and then you've got material and insulation you're carrying but not using. I think once temps got to the lower end of a blanket's / bag's ability it would make a difference. I've done it too though!
@@BackcountryPilgrim Sure, efficient is good if you can sleep in it. But a bag isn't MUCH more efficient than a blanket. An unzipped rectangular bag is about the size of a twin blanket, which you can wrap around you. You know... like a quilt. You don't get drafts at home. Why? Because that extra size of a blanket mostly prevents them. (Well, plus your bedroom probably isn't 20F). Perhaps a bigger difference is fabric weight. You might get a light bag with 10d or 15d shell, but even a light blanket is more likely to have 70d-ish shell. For perspective, the weight difference between an expensive down bag and a $30 comforter is two pounds or less. For the budget-conscious, that might be just fine.
Have you ever tried form-fitting (jumpsuit) bags like the Selk'bags? I'm a side-sleeping as well and thought these might do the trick. It looks like they have options down to 35degrees.
Everyone has a preference until the temperature plummets .... then they go for sleeping bags. I went on a supposedly "mild" camp in Scotland, but then got rained on, sleeted on, snowed on, and the temp dropped far below predicted levels to -2c. Meanwhile I am there with my autumn sleeping system, damp clothes, and cold AF. Forget "quilts" and having a bit of your back exposed. I could feel where my hip was pressing into my mat because there was heat exchange. I could literally visualise my poorly closing seal on my outer because it was a blue line of cold down my body. When everything goes wrong, the one thing you can rely on to keep you alive is stripping off your wet clothes and crawling into your sleep system. Dont cheap out on that for the sake of losing a few grams of weight. I would personally train harder, so I got stronger, so I could carry more weight, JUST to carry a decent sleep system. When everything goes wrong your bag is going to be the only thing keeping you alive. ........quilts .... seriously?
I owed the Disco it was warm but it bled feathers like a pig and the zipper broke after 30 times . Returned 2 others as well mountain hardwear and i cant even remember the 3rd . I finally went to a quilt and i totally agree that below 30 i got cold, im So damn frustrated, do i get the Enlightened Equipment zero or another bag? Im leaning towards a zero bag, Western Mountaineering or something that has a no question ask return policy, im a bit warn out with the whole process.
Man, that's rough. Western Mountaineering is the only bag company I've never heard anything but praise for, that may be the way to go. "Buy once, cry once." ;)
Other than the hood being removed quilts look exactly like an unzipped sleeping bag to me so where is the material savings for a quilt other than the hood?
Well zippers weigh a lot as well as the heavier material they attach to and those are gone. Also the quilt does not wrap all the way around the body so there is less of that material as well as the fill that would have been inside that additional material. All things being equal they definitely weigh less. Whether that weight savings is worth the hassle is another question. ;)
Good comments. Just wondering, why does no one talk about the Sierra Designs Backcountry Bed any more? I realize it is older, but have these newer bags and quilts surpassed its utility and functionality?
I looked at it for this video, I think the weight to warmth ratio wasn't quite as good as the others and I saw some sketchy reviews of drafts. Can't review em all. :)
Greetings Backcountry Pilgrim_
Thanks for the awesome review of our TerraLite- we definitely appreciate it. A good night's sleep is crucial when you are in the backcountry, whether is a few nights out on a local trail or a few weeks in the Himalayas, and at WM it's our mission to deliver that comfort for all types of sleepers.
Happy Trails,
Western Mountaineering
I'm honored, thanks for the comment!
Oh wow, y'all are the GOATs! I've been experimenting with a bag with 0 fill on the bottom, just a sheet of MEMBRANE 7 ripstop nylon. Have you all tested anything like that in your labs? You get the ultralight benefits of a quilt, and with enough bottom fabric, the freedom of movement, but without spilling all your warm air every time you twitch.
Heres what I do as a side sleeper: Roll around all night, cry some, take a leak, roll around some more, then get up and start my day.
Not false. LOL!
Same here man. Try to jam my arm up into the hood under my pillow, cry a little more, figure out where I have down shift freezing my ass, sleep just that little bit more purely out of exhaustion, then get up and start my day. But hey that’s what we go for right.
Sleeping pills work for me 😂
😶😑😐😬😁😃😄😆😂🤣😭🤣😂🤣😂🤣
😶😑😐😬😁😃😄😆😂🤣😂🤣😂🤣
Here’s a tip for side sleepers I discovered by happy accident. I was bushwhacking near dark. I found a narrow flat spot but it had a large rock partially buried right in the middle. So I dug out the rock which left a hole. I was so tired I just laid out my pad over the hole and crashed. Next day I realized I had no hip discomfort. The hole acted as a hip hammock. I dig a small hole the size of a basketball every time now. Zero hip pain even with foam pads😊
Interesting hack!
Oh I gotta try this! Thank you for the tips!
Oh wow! Thank you!
@@rickmcallister9040 no telling how many ankles those holes have broken lol
@@keven8047 lol tell that to the moles and foxes. They’re the real killers
I like my military bivy, with it's large foot box. I put the mattress inside preventing that gap. My quilt is either inside or on top. The military bivy can be placed on the ground or ground sheet, when stealth camping as well. Breathable raeflective layers are only begining to used, radiant heating losses are as important just like insulation and convective heating losses.
Sounds great!
Thank you for this! Almost nobody covers these types of sleepers...
Happy to do so!
I’m a back, side, one leg or the other bent at the knee on my stomach virtually all over the place. I tried a quilt last season and it was so drafty as to be useless, I can’t stand mummy style so I’m on the hunt for a sleep system that will keep me warm and comfortable. Thanks for sharing.
In a few weeks I should have a video out on the Zenbivy system. It's magic haha!
You might want to check this out!
th-cam.com/video/H9HIlj_ZH5Q/w-d-xo.html
I'm a 6.2 big guy who sleeps on my side, and I move around; I have a long Sea To Summit Trek III sleeping bag. I always have plenty of room to move around, I am very warm. I can unzip the whole bag when too warm or just the feet.
Such Zenbivy design genius. Thank goodness he made his own company during this time ❤
And now we have an ultra light version of the Zenbivy 😊
Yup! I'm actually reviewing the new system right now. (Spoiler: It's totally rad!) :)
Man, I needed to hear this. Was completely convinced that quilts would work for me as a side sleeper, then remembered the last time I went camping with a fully unfolded sleeping bag to fit 2 people. Forgot how many times I would roll over and completely uncover my back in the process
With bags like these or the Zenbivy quilt bed, there's no reason to ever have that happen again! :)
Your video gave me a great idea: I will sew a sleeping pad sleeve under my sleeping bag to be able to toss and turn, with the bag staying in place upright. Cheap and effective!
Great idea for a cool DIY!
Maybe you should consider just sewing some small loops on the sides of your sleeping bag and them make a separate pad sleeve that has some plastic hooks. Then you can just attach the sleeve to the bag with the hooks. I think this is less destructive in case the sleeve idea doesnt work, and you can also use the same sleeve with all your different sleeping bags just by adding the loops to all your bags.
This is about the most useful video on this topic. Was looking at the same price range and you demonstrated every position I’ve ever slept in. My disco is coming soon and I can’t wait to try it, thanks for the info kind fella!
Glad it was helpful!
Thank you, you helped me so much! I am a newbie camper and I´ve got a bag that is the tight mummy shape, just because it had good price to quality ratio. During the night I have realized that I actually sleep on my side with my knee up, same as you, and ended up with the claustrophobic feeling and crying during the night. Then I realized that maybe quilts are the right choice for me as they are wider but I am terrified of getting cold drafts during the night, so I was hesitating. Your video has helped me so much! I really think that the Nemo is the right choice for me. Thank you so much!
As a sleeping bag I like it a lot but if you want the ultimate best of all worlds, check out my Zenbivy video(s)!
This is why as a front side sleeper that likes an 'leg out' I went back to an classic style square sleeping bag made by snugpak, it's an fully enclosed sleeping bag with 4 zips, 2 along the side and 2 along the bottom, it allows the bottom to be unzipped and your feet have freedom if needed, or the side completely unzipped to make an huge square quilt. Or any combination of such, even the bottom zipped up and a part of the side to make that classic winged quilt shape that keeps your legs in.
Down sides is maybe the rating, it's only -5c comfort, -10c limit, that's enough for me in the UK Lakes for 4 season, I also have down pJs for if it's really any colder, the second thing is it's synthetic fill so it's heavy at 1.3Kg and isn't the smallest pack size 8inch x 7 inch though Inprefer synthetic insulation asnits stays warm when wet which it's always wet here in UK lakes.
Glad you found something thay works for you. The Cloud 20 has similar features with no zippers which I have found to work very well.
You're the Man! I can't understand why its so hard to find sleeping options and reviews from all the know-it-alls, for a stomach sleeper. My back is killing me just thinking about an inflatable mattress on the ground. I don't know if this is going to work, but it's a good start in the right direction.
Glad it helped! Sometimes people don't think niche gear is worth reviewing but as I get older this kind of stuff matters more and more. ;)
Dude! You're my SleepSystem SoulMate! I had pretty much decided to buy a quilt, even knowing the weaknesses you mentioned. But you have opened my eyes to those last options of wider bags and modified bags, which will serve me perfectly. I don't want to go thru buying several bags I won't like, so I will go straight to one of those. I see the value in your channel, and have subscribed. Thanks again, and see you on the trail!
Awesome man glad I could help!
I went with that WM Terralite. I've now had the chance to use it a few times and absolutely love it. Top quality product. It has more room than needed for a wide pad and even with wide shoulders I can easily slip my arms to my sides and pull em back out without ever feeling trapped. The craftsmanship put into these bags leaves no question why they are so highly regarded.
Good choice!
I use back county bed from SD it's like the cloud 20 and LOVE it
Nice!
Was stoked when I found the SD Cloud some time ago, and have had a love relationship to is since our first night out.
Love at first sleep. Awwww! :)
You know, I love the Cloud 20. On a group trip this summer, it was the most requested bag. But the aesthetics are just so awful! Sierra Designs, please change the look of this bag. I don’t want to look like a Boy Scout. I’m a sophisticated adult who spends a lot of time sleeping outdoors and I want my bags to look as good as EE, WM and ZenBivy. And while you’re at it, please upgrade the down and lighten the Cloud 20. Thanks!
@suzannestroh3194 Yeah SD isn't the best at color or pattern choices..:)
I sleep the same way and yes, it's a real problem if you are outdoorsy. Nearly all sleep systems are made for people that can sleep on their backs or in the fetal position. Personally, I moved to quilts years ago and it works for me. At this point, I have four matching down quilts in different temperature ratings and sleep in one every day. One lives in my roof top tent, the others are kept in the bedroom for different seasons.
JackRBetter are the best I've found. Reasonably priced, they are easy to work with if you want something larger or longer than normal, and they have all held up great with constant use. The "Katadin" is my favorite (very large and long). Though discontinues, JacksRBetter will still make them if you ask and are willing to pay for the material overage. The Katadin is large enough that it mitigates drafts very well when tossing and turning. It's basically a giant down blanket with a sewn footbox.
When below zero, I've been known to nest two 20º Katadins together. That's a lotta down brother!
It's all about the footbox IMO. Those that toss and turn have one heck of a time keeping their feet covered up.
I hadn't heard of those but they sound great! Since sleep systems also cater to small-to-mid sized folks, larger sizing can also be a challenge for sure.
Your intro about being a side/belly sleeper and slightly claustrophobic could have been my exact speech!
I have used the 2023 version of the Zen Bivy Light bed. I actually like the full sheet better. I have the 25 degree bed and love it. It works well for me. I have had it down to the low 30’s and that was a little cold. But to 40 I have no complaints. I find that when it gets close to 40 if i stick the longer quilt edges into the hood that also make a big difference.
May have to try the a buddies Sea to Summit on a few late season trips.
Yeah I'm a Zenbivy convert myself!
@@BackcountryPilgrimI just wish I had bought the 10 deg instead. Need something that can handle sub freezing temps for late and early season trips. May borrow that Sierra designs from a buddy and try it out.
@in2mtns The SD is nice for varied temps and simplicity.
I got the Nemo Disco 15 degree last year. Absolute game changer (for the better)! The hourglass shape is fantastic for multiple sleeping positions, and many great innovations since the last time I bought bags: the gills, the neck curtain, and the SNOWPLOW ZIPPER PULL, the thing rocks! I’m still keeping my eyes open for the perfect pillow, but so far a Costco box wine bladder with a piece of egg foam around it in a cotton tshirt pillowcase is working well.
Right on! Yeah I still love my Nemo. Let me know if you find the perfect pillow - that continues to slide me!
Thank you for your video. I am also a side sleeper. Finding a good sleeping bag is not easy. You need a wide sleeping pad. I have now found one that is 30 inches 76 cm wide. It is too long for me. I had to make this compromise.
After a long search, I ended up with a sleeping system from Zenbivy. I am very happy with it. Before that I tried a few sleeping bags and spent a lot of money on them. They were super flex or egg-shaped sleeping bags. But I wasn't satisfied with them either. I am a restless sleeper who often tosses and turns.
Your videos are great. I like your videos very much. Greetings from Germany.
I just reviewed the Zenbivy light Ned and I agree 100%. One of the best sleeps I've ever had outdoors. Thank you for commenting!
Thank you for this comparisons and the images of you using these. I"m looking for lightweight but also know that I sleep cold, and I sleep on my side. And I'm quite short. I bought a quilt thinking it was the answer but trying it out at home (no pad, on my bed) I realized it's absolutely not for me. It takes forever to get warm and every time I turn I get long lasting cold spots. So I was at a loss. Now I see other options for me (and realize that a zippered bag is essential for me to stay warm). Subscribed.
I'm so glad it helped!
This was a very informative video. I am a pretty active sleeper. I am older so going light is very important for me. I changed to a 20 degree Zpack quilt a few years ago and it works well. If it’s going to get near the 20 degree mark I pack my Montbell down pants and down sleeping booties. If it’s going to be very cold I leave the quilt and bring my Western Mountaineering sleeping bag. Quilts are great but sleeping bags are the way to go if it’s really cold. I like that WM bag you covered. I do a lot of long distance backpacking so I generally just pack the quilt and hope for the best. I am generally fine.
Great options! And keeping things somewhat modular is always a good idea. :)
I've used the Klymit KSB20 XL down bag for 5 years now. At 82in x 40in (girth/circumference of 78in) with a 650-down fill and only 3lbs, this bag is roomy and warm. This is by far the widest single person mummy style bag I could find while also being a bit stretchy. As a bigger camper, this is a necessity. The bag has a dual direction zipper so you can open the bottom to stick a leg out while still comfortably wrapped at the torso. It also has toggles to sinch up the bag length to reduce the dead space in the foot box for shorter sleepers. By far the best bag I've used ever. 😀👍
Sounds great!
The sleeping pad sleeve is the gamechanger for those of us that toss and turn and fidget all night. Big Agnes, Sierra Design are the only two I know that have one. The Big Agnes Echo park / Diamond parks are humungous. I'm having a serious look at the Sierra Backcountry 650, it looks ideal for fidgets like me, though the Big Agnes bags all have a cool pillow barn that's really useful.
Yeah I like mine a lot, great way to make a bag warmer but also more adaptable.
First off , YES ! The very best thing for a side sleeper or one who changes positions during the night is .. A NON- mummy bag with a pad sleeve . I am a 72 YO ,past medic from RVN who has tried almost every brand , size and design through the years . The very best for me , unless it will be HOT at night , or below 15 is . My Nemo StartoLoft with Downtech . 25 " pad up to 4" will fit in the sleeve and you can change pads depending on the season . Plus add wearing wool or down pants / jacket in cold weather . I have 3 WM bags also , including the WM Cypress GWS Expedition for negative #'s winter sleeping . A GREAT cold weather , roomy bag at only 4lbs 14oz .
LEGIT gear! Thanks!
@@BackcountryPilgrim Don't get me started on tents :D All my WM bags have been stellar !
I’m a big fan of my Big Agnus Anvil Spur. It attaches to the sleeping pad and is essentially a closed quilt, as there is no insulation on the back of the bag, additionally the zip runs all the way to my feet… but about that zipper, it can be a pain the butt. I’ve used in hunting in Alaska (Spring - May) and hiking the mountains of Utah (Fall - Sept/Oct) worked great.
I think you're the second to mention that one, I'll have to check it out! Thanks!
I agree. I think the best of all worlds is a bag like the anvil horn. no down underneath but no cold spots when tossing and turning. another big feature being that when you do toss and turn (as most of us do) the warm air trapped in the down is far less displaced, making it very efficient.
@americanclassicmetal7913 agreed!
Love my cloud 20 for its innovative design and thoughtful approach to comfort. Also inexpensive and light (under 2 pounds). My cat likes it too.
Very nice!
Going on a year with the Nemo Disco 15 and I’m a side/stomach sleeper. The bag is awesome. Plenty of room for me to stretch out inside of without the extra weight and size. I also will unzip the bag and use it as a quilt when it’s above 40°, it honestly doubles as a quilt with a foot-box. I paired mine with the Big Agnes Insulated 25”x72” pad with the larger side baffles. As a 6’ 190lb side sleeper I couldn’t ask for a better combo.
Sounds perfect! Yeah I love my Nemo sleep system.
How does it hold up in the cold? I have the Nemo Forte 35 and have been freezing in the mid 40s
I've been below freezing (not sure how much) and felt great!
I love my mummy sleeping bag, the MEC -7°C aquilina, but struggle to find a comfortable side position, so this year I got the Big Agnes Wedgie, which adds inches to my bag without me having buy a whole new bag!! I had to modify the zipper (right vs left zip) for it to work but I’m so happy with it
THAT IS AWESOME! I'd never seen one of those before, thank you! (For anyone curious: amzn.to/3VREHDU).
Finally i found the best video about sleeping bags!
Thank you! Glad this was helpful. :)
BTW, I made this video before tyring the Zenbivy system and I am a convert - you might want to check it out: th-cam.com/video/lS7EEh_V6Nw/w-d-xo.html
Glad they are starting the be creative for side sleepers. I use The North Face Goliath. Super roomy and will mate as a double bag.
That's a great feature - the NEMO Disco does that too. Love it!
Big Agnes Torchlight expands to sleep all positions I’m very obsessed with mine and highly recommend it!!
I think that one was mentioned earlier...at least two votes! :) Thanks!
Going in first backpacking trip soon. I bought the disco before seeing your vid-exactly because I thought it would help this. I tried it at rei and it is so much more roomy than a mummy bag.
Great to hear!
Another bag I want to throw in the mix here is the Sea to Summit Ascent (men's) and Altitude (women's) series. I have the Altitude 15 and used to use the Disco 15 as my primary bag. I like the S2S bag because it has a lot of cool features: foot vent zipper, full length zipper on one side, 1/3 zip on the opposite side, extra insulation in the foot box, mix of horizontal and vertical baffles. It also has a wider hood and less plush draft collar for those who find the Disco a bit constricting like I did. I find the shape of this bag is a bit warmer than the Disco as well because there's less dead space for you to heat up. Highly recommend!
Wow that sounds great! Thanks for watching and for the tip!
The Big Agnes Anvil Horn 15 is a great bag for side sleepers. It has a sleeve for you pad and also a pillow barn for your pillow. It is a great mid range priced bag.
Nice! I like BA's stuff - I have the Copper Spur 2p and their 50" Sleep pad. Thanks!
Also look at big Agnes torchlight series of bags as they have expandable sections that create s lot more room.
That one has been mentioned a few times, so i think you're on to something. Sounds like a cool bag!
I sleep like you do, Pilgrim. I too use a Nemo Disco, but though rated to 15, for me it’s good to about 40F. For colder weather, I use a Feathered Friends bag rated to 20F (comfort level). This past summer, I got a Zenbivy Light bed rated to 25, which I’ll use at 35-40F. It’s extremely comfortable…better than the Disco. Definitely recommend you try it.
I'm getting a lot of zenbivy recommendations guess that one is next!
I use a Mountain Equipment Helium 800GT, the GT being the extra wide variant, with a Helium expansion baffle that adds 5 more centimeters. Super warm and wide enough to roll around in.
Sounds great! Expandability is a welcome feature in bags. :)
The one thing I've heard is to have both. Expensive yes!! It seems to be full-proof.
Right tool for the right job and all that. :)
I have a design sleeping bag also with the hole in the bottom.
I'm a stomach sleeper who loves to stretch out and move in my sleep, and my feet have somehow figured out how to sneak themselves out through the foothole whilst I'm asleep.
Definitely given me a wake-up trying to figure out why my feet are feeling cold haha
Ha! Maybe some wool socks? :)
I'm a 6.2 big guy who sleeps on my side, and I move around; I have a long Sea To Summit Trek III sleeping bag. I always have plenty of room to move around, I am very warm. I can unzip the whole bag when it's too warm or just the feet. The way I move, I can't see how a quilt would keep me warm. You will also need to buy a liner to have over the mat, to sleep on. I'm able to sleep 10 or 11 hours per night with no trouble at all.
Sounds like a great setup!
Fantastic video! Thank you so much for your reviews of the different options. The nemo bag looks interesting- so I'll check that out - and retire my claustrophobic mummy bag :)
I just spent two more nights in it and still love it!
Have the Nemo and hate it. No where near enough room at shoulders for side sleeping.
Just a little update since I saw your video and got interested in the Nemo bag :) In general your video got me thinking a lot about how I actually like to sleep - and what other issues I have with a traditional mummy bag - other than I am a side sleeper. It occured to me, that I also love to sleep on my belly with my arms above my head hugging my pillow. In mummy bags there are never enough space for me to do that, which in colder nights force me to keep my arms in the bag - so I did not go ahead with the nemo bag after all. I have now ended up with a zenbivy ultralight system, which I love more than anything. I have so much space for my arms because of the big hood - and they are kept warm. So even though I did not follow any of your recomendations, your video got me inspired to give more thought to how I like to sleep - and now I have found the best solution for me, my tossing and turning and my arms - so thank you again :)
@MsPiapigen You made the same call I did. :) I still use the Nemo for dual camping with my kids but for solo it's Zenbivy all the way!
Very clear and well presented thank you.
Thank you very much!
You should a look at the Big Agnes Anvil Horn bags. Roomier than a mummy bag and with the sleeping pad sleeve. As a side/stomach/back sleeper I had a better night of sleep in this bag than I have even had in a mummy bag (or in the Nemo Forte, which I just replaced even though I liked it)
Thanks! I like BA - I have the Copper Spur tent and a 50" pad for duo hiking, but I've never looked at them for sleeping bags.
I have the Terralite and the Cloud 35. And of course I'm a side and stomach sleeper and those are the two top-notch. For any hot/summer just go ahead and throw on your long johns and almost any random down blanket. Don't go for the high dollar down blankets, not worth it for hot weather.
Yeah you can find them for very good prices instead of another bag, plus modularity is the best when it comes to giving gear!
Sierra design cloud is great ( I have it for 2 years) and totally underrated by hiking community as never appears in any tops
Yeah I am surprised it doesn't get as much air time as others.
Excellent research, well said "a few extra ounces and a good night's sleep". I am buying the Nemo bag.
Very good! You going with synthetic or down?
@@BackcountryPilgrim synthetic, I am rough with my gear
@@BackcountryPilgrim I am thinking of buying Disco 15 now.
Is it possible to use this bag in sierras during the summer? (Yosemite, sequoia NP).
Unless the weather gets too crazy it should be good in a warm sleep system. My 30 degree quilt has been fine in those conditions.
Thank you, I appreciate your advice!
Nice! Thanks for this video. Although I found it a bit late (16 months), it's got great information for me. I've been using a Big Agnes Lost Ranger 15* for more than fifteen years and it's showing it's age. Big Agnes completely redesigned the Lost Ranger and it's nothing like my old bag and I'm not too keen on the new version. The Sierra Designs bag is very similar to the design of my old Lost Ranger that I like. And at just under two pounds, it weighs less than my old Lost Ranger.
Yeah, it is too bad companies seem to redesign every year to keep people interested.
In the course of a night’s sleep, I’m both a side sleeper and stomach sleeper. I’m thinking I will need a wide sleeping pad and one of the bags you showcased here before I head out to camp this fall.
Both are worth it!
Great info thanks! So interesting because it looks like we’ve been on parallel journeys. In addition to various WM bags, I also have both the Rift and the Cloud 20, in addition to EE quilts like the one shown at the beginning of your video. This year I’ve discovered ZenBivy and I’m getting great sleeps in the backcountry with my LightBed using an UL sheet. It absolutely cuts the drafts. I top it with my EE Revelation quilt (950 30 degree wide) in cold weather when I want the versatility of having a wearable quilt in camp. If I don’t need that, I’ll just bring my Rift.
Have you tried ZB yet? Tell us your thoughts!
Yep the parallel continues - I've pretty much converted to Zenbivy and have made two review videos on them! :)
Good video, thank you! WM all the way for me.
Good choice!
Very helpful video. Do you have a recommendation or review on pillows?
I'm about to where I can do one. I've gone from the balloon style to a full stuffed pillow haha. My usual go to has been the Nemo Fillo which is kind of in-between, but I want to see how I do with the full pillow before I do a full review video.
Side sleeper and toss and turner here. I used an exped wallcreeper recently and was shocked how good it was for lots of movement, turning, etc. The arm sleeves are very useful too. Overall i was super impressed, and now hopeful i can get better sleep in the backcountry.
Great! I'll check it out. :)
@@BackcountryPilgrim exped dreamwalker is the newer iteration.
Ah, that helps thank you!
Great video, exactly what I was looking for!
Glad you liked it!
I use a Sierra Designs Back Country Bed. They don’t make it anymore. It’s similar to the one you have except that the whole front panel flips down. I love it! If I have an emergency number one I can get out very quickly, not like the stupid, traditional sleeping bag with a stuck zipper that kept me prisoner and… well, you get the drift!😅
I've heard good things about that bed! I didn't realize it was out of production - I just started working with SD, I'll have to see if they are making something to replace it!
Great video. I have the Disco 15 and love it. It’s on the heavier side for light sleeping bags. Was looking into the Terralite as an alternative to shave off a pound as well as still have room to move around. Just a little concerned about warmth. Would you say the Terralite sleeps warmer than the Disco even though it’s a 25 degree? My Disco starts getting a little cold in the mid 30’s. I also believe you can order a Terralite overstuffed. Thanks.
The Terralite wasn't mine actually and I was just using it for form factor. WM does overstuff and I'd trust their ratings!
Agreed. There's a video "Sleeping Bag vs Quilt--Infrared Proof" on "Adventures In Reach"'s channel that clearly proves how many BTU's a quilt loses with movement and those BTU's have to be ginned back up by body heat. I think quilts are great for moderate conditions, but once you have to include a lot of add-ons to a quilt to get it to perform like a basic sleeping bag (baffles, strapping, etc...), you might as well get a sleeping bag from the start and besides, nobody is going to benefit from the quilt's "open" configuration in extreme cold. As a matter of fact, for the price of a competent cold weather quilt (which would probably be too hot for moderate conditions), one could get a good quality 3 season quilt AND a good quality extreme cold sleeping bag and ALWAYS sleep right.
Yeah that seems to match my experience as well. :)
Thank you for this video! I have a hard time in a sleeping bag for the same reason and I have been trying to figure out a new bag.
Glad it was helpful!
A note on the UGQ quilts, although a little more expensive, you can get them in 900 fill. And they're semi-custom made in that you decide the fill amount, the colors, etc. I use them in conjunction with different pad straps and stay quite warm. I am though shopping for a bag to add to the adaptability of my system, so Thanks! for this vid.
Yup I got the bandit and love it! But in certain conditions I just prefer the warmth security of the full bag. :)
I’ve had the same experience as you with my Nemo quilt, and it’s cuz I sleep like you do, on my side and twisting around doing, as my wife says,”seal flops” .
Lol yeah it's hard for a quilt to handle those moves. :)
WM alpinlite is great I can toss and turn within the bag zero drafts zero cold spots. Plus continuous baffles for temp regulation.
Awesome bags!
Me too. Side sleeper. Good info. Thanks.
We gotta stick together haha!
Very high quality video, great information! Strictly side sleeper here.
Thanks!
I wish there was a cross between the disco and the Sierra Design Backcountry. I like the spoon shape and larger hood of the disco and the zipperles quilt and pad sleeve while saving space with no insulation on the back top half.
Thay would be rad!
Thank you so much for sharing this great and informative video! Really appreciate it!
You are so welcome!
I use a cheap Amazon bag rated somewhere around 45-60 degrees with a small down quilt as well as a foam sleeping pad. Done ok in temps as cold as -20 up in the Rockies many times with that setup and some care in choosing a camp in a naturally sheltered spot. oh and a couple had warmers in the socks helps
Very good! Yes, the sleeping bag is just one part of the sleep SYSTEM - and you can gain degrees in many ways!
If like me you need it for motorbike camping so pack size is not so much an issue the 2 i would consider are eurohike adventurer 300XL on sale for about £40 and the beast sleeping pod which is huge again for about £40 im probably going with the beast as its just so much bigger than the eurohike 300xl but pack size will suck
Volume is important to me as the bigger the backpacker the more it will weigh too. :)
Thank you for a great video. I was thinking that I was becoming an old and grumpy man since I didnt like sleeping in ordinary sleepingbags anh more
Glad it was helpful - but comfortable sleeping bags are no excuse for not becoming an old and grumpy man. :)
What a informative nice video!
Keep up the good work!!!!
Also look at the sequoia from western mountaineering.
I have the gws version and it is a blast
WM is great!
Hi I have a Macpac sleeping bag that opens out like the western mountaineering it’s not as warm but i a great feature
Yeah I like that a lot!
I have Mont-Bell Down Hugger 800 #1 for those stretchy requirements (side sleeper with leg kick) and find it OK for most positions.
Great! A good nights sleep is worth it.
I'm getting the WM TerraLite. Been using Big Agnes Torchlight UL 30 and just not warm enough for Utah mountains, not side sleeper friendly as very little fill on underside of bag.
WM is fantastic!
That was a quality review. Thank you!
Glad to be of service!
I have the Nemo Forte 20 and at 6'2" and 220 lb I find the spoon shape has the room I need to sleep on my side. It has kept me warm at 25 degrees. I do agree the thermo gill are a great feature on warmer nights.
They're making great stuff!
I have both the Disco 15 degree and the Torchlight UL20 both are very comfortable but the Torchlight is more customizable with its design features and can almost be “spoon shape” as well. I use both depending on my trips because the Disco is a little on the heavier side.
I looked at the Torchlight, looks nice!
@@BackcountryPilgrimI can’t tell the difference in warmth between the two 🤷♂️ I bought the Torchlight last year on sale it’s an expensive bag for sure!
I have both also. I prefer the Torchlight because it feels warmer and cozier. Both are great for side sleeping and being restless.
I’ve just started trail running / ultramarathoning instead of sleeping, just keep going and don’t sleep for a day or two. I haven’t worked out anything past that. I’ve yet to get a good night sleep on the trails so might as well keep moving. I hope one day to defeat the problem and get to sleep, until then I’ll keep it under 100 miles or so.
Well, that's one way to do it haha!
I love my Sierra designs quilt.
One question, I had read some bags might have thinner insulation on the back side. Their ratings are not accurate if the bag is not in the intended orientation. Is that correct?
Yes, if the fill is different on one side then its loft will change along with its temperature rating.
Hey, i can get the nemo disco for a great discount only its the long version and im only 181 cm or 5,9 inch. Will this be a big problem whit keeping me warm?
Technically it is harder for your body to warm up more space, but I got the long myself (5' 10") because I keep my clothes in the bag with me and I just put them down in the footbox at night. Works great!
Thx man!! Great vid btw. And thanks for the fast reply. You got yourself a other subscriber.
You bet!
Western mountaineering Alpinlite
Works like a quilt just unzip it and leave the down up
You can do this with any bag. Not sure how anyone couldn’t figure that out as quilts don’t work for everything but I have never worried about using a bag for everything
Yeah this comes up often. It can get awkward with hoods but it isn't impossible. The bigger benefit with a quilt is weight. WM rocks!
So I think your ideal sleeping gear is a down filled onesie? Joking aside, I am surprised you didn't mention Zenbivy. That system sounds close to your ideal system?
I started using quilts in 2019 and really like them. I have a three season quilt and a winter quilt. I still have a few sleeping bags that I do use. Sleeping pad wise, I own the same exact Nemo Tensor but that Insulated Wide does not do well in winter. There is too much pad surface exposed to air. I'm still looking for a high R value wide mummy pad but in the meantime use the Nemo Tensor Alpine mummy (R4.8) combined with the Nemo Switchback (R2) for winter and snow season.
I've since switched to Zenbivy!
Would love to see you compare the big agnes anvil horn and the zenbivy light bed!
Tell them to send em over! :)
You might want to check this out!
th-cam.com/video/H9HIlj_ZH5Q/w-d-xo.html
What timing! I have a Terralite waiting for me to test (& 95% sure purchase) at my local mountain store. I started having a little thoughts after seeing the Cloud’s innovative features, but then here you come solidifying my choice at the end. Can’t wait to pick it up. I’m an active sleeper in all positions. I bring an Exped Ultra 3R Duo M because it’s the only thing I can sleep on. I’m 5’10”, 220+ with screws and plates in my pelvis and a bad leg from a previous motorcycle accident. At 72” long, 41” at the head and 32” at the foot, it allows me to spin freely in my Tarptent Double Rainbow Li. Quilts don’t work for me. Mummy’s def don’t work. The Terralite I think is going to be a dream. WM also has an extender that adds about 3” to the top of the bag and tapers down to the girth if I’m still feeling confined…we’ll see how it goes first.
You got some GREAT stuff! I think you'll love the bag. It's simple but basically perfectly made. :)
Thank you, I’m always worried it comes across as bragging, it isn’t. I just don’t want to buy things more than once. There really weren’t many reviews of it here. I initially went in to try an Alpinlite…once I crawled in I felt like a sausage, but more importantly I was actually compressing the down from the inside out. The owner immediately recommended the Terra. I’ll come back when I have it. One thing I did notice, the quality of the bags are phenomenal.
I get it, see my In Defense of Expensive Gear video haha! Buy once, cry once.
For those that care the dims of the terra are 6’0”, 65”/68”/42” shoulder/hip/foot. 1 lb. 13 oz. (18 oz. 850+ fill).
I have the terralite it is an awesome bag ..got mine from hermit's hut out of California took A-day and a 1/2 to get To Tacoma.. Mine has a 3 oz over stuff and is Just as roomy as a quilt inside without the drafts ,On the down Is side it does way 32 oz But it makes an awesome Winter bag.. And its quality build is something to Marvel over
You can also use a tapered bag, more room than a mummy bag but smaller than a rectangular bag. Don't seem to be as common but you can find them. I have one (with a hood) that's comfort rated down to 1c , and it fits inside a rectangular bag without crushing the down .
Yeah there are definitely more options now than ever!
My idea- sleep under a camping blanket or unzipped square sleeping bag that does the same job. Obviously lie on your sleeping pad too. Now put all of that inside a roomy and breathable bivvy bag. The bivvy bag is draught proof and the pad will keep it in place as you toss and turn. Simple and cheap and lightweight if you choose the components carefully. My UK setup is an Alpkit hunka XL bivvy bag, a Snugpak jungle blanket XL (folded for doubled thickness) and a Dutch army surplus self inflating mat. I mocked it up with tiny plastic crocodile clips to keep everything in place but I'll replace them with poppers now I've proven the concept.
Interesting! I like the idea!
So I finally got around to finishing this... it's awesome!!! If you're going to take a bivvy bag anyway just add some snap fasteners to the grosgrain around the collar and clip on your camping blanket of choice. It acts like a giant sleeping bag if you've got a wide one. So much room!
The cloud 20 is my favorite sleeping bag of all time, If they made that in all different temperature ranges I would buy everyone.
SO great! I love the easy adaptability for no weight penalty!
Great video.I’m a side sleeper looking up upgrade my sleep system.Ever try the montbell downhugger? It’s a mummy bag that stretches.
No I haven't. I'm not sure stretching would cure my claustrophobia as much but it'd be worth a try!
Not sure if it's available in the US, but Nordisk Gormsson Egg, is pretty awesome for a stomach sleepers
I haven't heard of that company but I'll check it out! Thanks!
This video was so helpful, thank you! I laughed when you saw how you sleep, it’s exactly how I do! Any idea if the cloud 20 would fit the Sea to Summit Ether Light XT pad at 4” thick?
I believe the specs say 2.5" but I saw on one reddit that 3" fits fine. (I'd test mine for you but I only use 25" pads.) :)
@@BackcountryPilgrim thanks for your reply! The cloud 20 paired with the rectangular Ether at 25x4 is tempting but may be too big. Definitely leaning cloud 20 regardless!
REI has it on sale in their outlet right now for $225 and you'd have a year to see if it works! bit.ly/3ryqlMc
Love my Cloud by Sierra Designs!
It's great!
Wow, I sleep exactly the same way; on stomach, with one leg out.
Never could use a mummy bag.
I learned, decades ago, to use a rectangular bag as a quilt.
Sheet or liner over the pad.
It's pretty much like sleeping at home. I don't use the zipper at all unless it is very cold out.
The spoon shape and, especially, the roomy Terralite, look interesting. But what is the advantage over a rectangular bag that is certain to be more versatile and comfortable? A few ounces of weight, maybe.
The pocket for the pad seems so obvious. How come it is so rare?
Although I have always used sleeping bags out of habit, I would probably be just as happy with a lightweight blanket and sheet.
Thanks for discussing this; it's the first time I've seen anyone mention the topic. I suspected that I couldn't be the only person who sleeps that way, but I was beginning to wonder. :)
I think it's more about thermal efficiency. A blanket would have to be pretty large to seal up the interior air and then you've got material and insulation you're carrying but not using. I think once temps got to the lower end of a blanket's / bag's ability it would make a difference. I've done it too though!
@@BackcountryPilgrim Sure, efficient is good if you can sleep in it. But a bag isn't MUCH more efficient than a blanket. An unzipped rectangular bag is about the size of a twin blanket, which you can wrap around you. You know... like a quilt.
You don't get drafts at home. Why? Because that extra size of a blanket mostly prevents them. (Well, plus your bedroom probably isn't 20F).
Perhaps a bigger difference is fabric weight. You might get a light bag with 10d or 15d shell, but even a light blanket is more likely to have 70d-ish shell.
For perspective, the weight difference between an expensive down bag and a $30 comforter is two pounds or less. For the budget-conscious, that might be just fine.
For sure!
Great stuff and great service
One of the companies or Backcountry Pilgrim? Haha, either way thanks!
I have tried the quilts. I would not give up my terralite for a quilt....ever
Have you ever tried form-fitting (jumpsuit) bags like the Selk'bags? I'm a side-sleeping as well and thought these might do the trick. It looks like they have options down to 35degrees.
I have not. Let me know if you get one!
@@BackcountryPilgrimI definitely will...though they're not especially ultra-light. Thanks for the video!
Awesome video. I use the Sea to Summit Ascent 2 because it has also space and a flexible design with versatile zippers.
Very nice!
I can also vouch for the Ascent Series
Everyone has a preference until the temperature plummets .... then they go for sleeping bags.
I went on a supposedly "mild" camp in Scotland, but then got rained on, sleeted on, snowed on, and the temp dropped far below predicted levels to -2c.
Meanwhile I am there with my autumn sleeping system, damp clothes, and cold AF.
Forget "quilts" and having a bit of your back exposed. I could feel where my hip was pressing into my mat because there was heat exchange.
I could literally visualise my poorly closing seal on my outer because it was a blue line of cold down my body.
When everything goes wrong, the one thing you can rely on to keep you alive is stripping off your wet clothes and crawling into your sleep system.
Dont cheap out on that for the sake of losing a few grams of weight.
I would personally train harder, so I got stronger, so I could carry more weight, JUST to carry a decent sleep system.
When everything goes wrong your bag is going to be the only thing keeping you alive.
........quilts .... seriously?
Right tool for the right job, but sometimes you don't know what the job will be, and then you better have a tool that will work anyway!
I owed the Disco it was warm but it bled feathers like a pig and the zipper broke after 30 times . Returned 2 others as well mountain hardwear and i cant even remember the 3rd . I finally went to a quilt and i totally agree that below 30 i got cold, im So damn frustrated, do i get the Enlightened Equipment zero or another bag? Im leaning towards a zero bag, Western Mountaineering or something that has a no question ask return policy, im a bit warn out with the whole process.
Man, that's rough. Western Mountaineering is the only bag company I've never heard anything but praise for, that may be the way to go. "Buy once, cry once." ;)
Seirra design is genius. That is my major issue with sleeping pad, sliding off the pad.
Yeah that's a feature that everyone else needs to include!
Other than the hood being removed quilts look exactly like an unzipped sleeping bag to me so where is the material savings for a quilt other than the hood?
Well zippers weigh a lot as well as the heavier material they attach to and those are gone. Also the quilt does not wrap all the way around the body so there is less of that material as well as the fill that would have been inside that additional material. All things being equal they definitely weigh less. Whether that weight savings is worth the hassle is another question. ;)
Good comments. Just wondering, why does no one talk about the Sierra Designs Backcountry Bed any more? I realize it is older, but have these newer bags and quilts surpassed its utility and functionality?
I looked at it for this video, I think the weight to warmth ratio wasn't quite as good as the others and I saw some sketchy reviews of drafts. Can't review em all. :)