CEO 2017 Smash Melee - Liquid'Hungrybox (Jigglypuff) vs PG | Plup (Fox, Sheik) SSBM GF
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Hbox doesn't need to change his playstyle to please viewers, he is doing enough by playing a character that's ass and making people believe that the character is actually better than Peach or Falcon. What is he supposed to do? Approaching with Puff is suicide, even more so against Fox. I understand that people prefer more intense sets but what can you do. Don't worry about Melee dying, bigger sports and esports have defensive play that is even more conservative than Hbox's and they have lived well enough
Puff is not ass lmao
+IForfeit MyTime prince abu
>Puff is ass
>Has rest, the best recovery in the game, and some of the most disjointed hitboxes in the game.
>Has one losing matchup to the best character in the game.
Anyone who thinks puff is a bad character is an idiot. No one plays her cause the whole community hates the character and is generally boring to play, because some people like to have fun with the game.
Just cause people can't adapt doesn't make jiggs good u have to change ur play style to beat puff
Chandler Morgan
Falco also has good tools against her as well as marth always winning neutral.
The best character in the game is her hardest counter and most played character so it is a big deal.
Her recovery is good, but that doesn't matter when you die so early.
Her rest is not gaurenteed unless you DI the setups wrong and Hbox it has been shown that if you cannot kill well without rest you will lose. (every other jigglepuff)
Melee is a 10+ year old game in a low viewership genra. (relative to fps, and MOBAS. ) It is one of the only few old games that has maintained its scene. You should expect some loss and HBox usually doesn't win tournaments against a God stack tournament and is the only puff that can win consistently against top tier competition statiscally speaking.
If the game is losing vewiers it is not because of one player when their are dozens of other "more enjoyable" characters to watch.
sweeeeeeeeeet! Atleast plup didnt get fifth. GGs to HBOX for adding another tourney to the list
I do agree with most of you people in the comments about mid set coaching and between set coaching. What most of you seem to fail to realize though is that the coaching he got that, arguably, made Hbox clutch it out was between set coaching (in between set 1 and 2 of GF)
Good set, and really good play from Plup, but I think he just ran out of steam toward the end. It's funny how people complain about HBox never approaching when he's in the lead, yet it's completely okay that M2K does the exact same thing but on a different character.
All in all, I also think coaching mid-set shouldn't be allowed, but the point is that HBox made that shift in gameplay because of his coach _between_ sets, rather than mid-set. You're playing against your opponent, not your opponent and their crew, nor your crew against your opponent. We have crew battles for a reason.
Coaching before and after each set is fine. Coaching midset is lame and the player should be on their own and not be able to break the momentum of any player during the set. Even if it is only 30 seconds, it definitely changes the entirety of the game that I don't think is healthy.
Plup not getting fifth is like winning the tournament for him. Plus, that reset was sick.
Jesus why is the melee community so toxic
filthy casual any competitive game will have this sort of stuff all over the place, and frankly melee's community is a lot better than others out there.
on stadium when box was on right ledge plug could have walked backwards near the tree and shot standing lasers. The height difference on the ground means they would hit box on the ledge and its super safe.
All the scrubs mad at Hungrybox winning lol. I do agree that coaching should be banned but Hungrybox played good.
tbh I don't have a problem with coaching except if its mid set coaching
BigMiityClaws to be fair most sports have "mid set" coaching, and it does throw off momentum. It lets the players recuperate and take a second to think about what they have to do.
Clayton Rudiger that's team based. Melee is 1v1.
Clayton, you have to take in to consideration that Melee is a 1v1 game. In Ping Pong, do coaches tell a player mid match how to improve?
Boxing has midset couching.
Midset coaching is awesome if both parties have coaches, it makes the game that much more esports. Every Esport has coaching mid set. People are just mad that they don't have coaches, why not make it top 8 only, or only allow it if both parties have coaches? Top teams like TSM, C9, Liquid, etc, can afford it and it will make top 8 that much better plus it gives melee geniuses like Tafo a bigger purpose in the community.
hungry box looks like the guy who plays pablo in NARCOS
Great job HBox. Don't listen to the whining in the comments that have a problem with midset coaching, or defensive play. The play to win mindset is very respectable, and people should understand that these matches are very tense to watch in their own way. Puff is so easy to kill if the opponent gets an opportunity, you have to play exceptionally well to beat a good Fox, or any other top tier.
RichardBlaziken It's absolutely horrible in any sport and it's killing melee, the biggest part of fighting games is you have to adapt to what your opponent is doing hungry box
1.Can't adapt for himself
2.Isn't good enough to play a competitive character so he play's a very boring play style with a glass cannon
3.Planks to win
I don't have any interest in watching hbox sets anymore I just wanted to see my main man plup kick the shit out of him. playing to win is god awful and it's killing melee and losing interest in the competitive melee scene, it's about competition people pushing you to do your very best to win not fucking winning by planking just cause you're an absolute knob jockey, hypocrite
"Playing to win is god awful" is where you and I disagree, and that's okay, because I understand your points. I disagree with many of them based on what I prefer, but I get you. You should understand, however, that at least from HBox's perspective, playing to win is what is best for him as well as any top player, regardless of whether or not it's popular. If it's killing Melee, maybe it's time to realize that Melee is an unbalanced game that, when played at its highest level, isn't always a spectacle that facilitates flurries of hits that lead to quick KOs. I can accept that and still find enjoyment in it.
RichardBlaziken that's not fair at all to say that melee is unbalanced wizzy is using falcon optimally and it's still exciting, plup plays samus and absolutely destroys high level opponents, heck even amsa is exciting he has the capability to beat a god, the more people play the same character the more difficult it is to prepare for that character. look at the other gods playing it's fucking exciting I've never seen a time out between PPMD, Armada, m2k or mango, h-box is absolutely poisonous for this community and his ideals suck. I'll put it to you this way if any other god left we'd be missing a high tier player that always play an exciting game, h-box should just quit and limit the harm that he causes
You're speaking from the perspective of a fan, which you are, and that's fair, but I also think it's necessary to be able to see from the eyes of the player. Planking isn't exclusive to Puff, and more importantly, it isn't exclusive to HBox. If HBox left the scene, there's nothing stopping anyone else from doing the same thing. The problem here is the game's mechanics, which even after trying to balance in Smash 4, still facilitates planking with Bayonetta.
I also mean unbalanced in a different way than you're taking it, and I am aware of people using characters besides the top 8, and support it. But fair isn't what I mean - balance is what I mean. Balance isn't really something Melee has, or indeed, any Smash game has, or even any fighting game. Unbalanced design means that unless the players are playing a mirror match with an agreed neutral start, the match is unbalanced. And that's okay, it's by design, it's intentional. Some characters like Fox have amazing kill potential, blinding speed, high skill ceilings with an insane amount of tech skill involved. Some characters like Puff die incredibly easily, have bad approach options, have good aerial mobility and attacks, but bad ground game, and a burst KO in the form of a high-risk, high-reward kill option.
All of this is to say that there was no reason for HBox to approach until it was safe to do so, and if that upsets you, you should be frustrated with the game mechanics, not the players.
I'd also like to end this by saying that I'm not trying to belittle you or anything like that, hope it doesn't come across that way. Just presenting the other side of an argument.
RichardBlaziken I'm a falco/falcon main I know puff I've beaten puffs in tournaments, I've been dealt a raw deal but something I'll never forget is being planked in my first grand final by a puff and looking the guy he just shrugged and said "I play to win like hungry box", I can understand the subtleties of play puff and I've a lot of respect for them cause it ain't easy and as a falco main I know what it's like to be a glass cannon, h-box is encouraging planking in the community if he left it'd reduce and be replaced by a better more exciting play style, but I intend to be the change I want to see I value competition and don't care if I lose if I got pushed to my limits, h-box is cancerous to our community he does everything that's makes the game boring. never approaches, ledge camping and planking but I promise you here I'll dismantle that style and when he starts losing everyone will stop copying him.
HBox bare foot and bare jaw lol
Great plays as always HBox. True champion here.
Bruh... Melee is so competitive, even the announcers compete
"You don't usually see this every day."
I want a coach so that in a middle of a set it's just him screeching in my fucking ear.
when you see Plup win by 3 stocks in game 4 and 5, and that there's only 9 mins left in the video, but he gets absolutely rocked in the 2nd set -- FeelsBadMan.
also, if anyone speaks to Plup, TELL HIM TO HAVE A BREAK BETWEEN SETS. Seriously, it's so important. Go to the toilet, eat or drink something, reset yourself. ESPECIALLY when you're the under dog. His hands were clearly hurting him too. Mango vs Armada is a good example.
Holy shit, Melee is still played competitively? That's so cool!
Looks like I found my faborite Melee player + Ganondorf mains
I love when Plup smiles while playing
It's actually bad when Plup smiles; it means he's getting tilted.
Probably what he meant. Bah ha ha! But maaaaaan... wanted Plup to win so bad!
Well, I meant that when Plup smiles is because he is styling on Hbox too. Or jiggling
I can respect that some people don't like Hbox or his style, but can some one please tell me how the ever loving fuck can ONE person ruin an entire community?
no1 wants to enter and LOSE to this puff
plup knows something about grabbing puff with sheik that we don't lol
0:13 Battlefield or Bust
Nice play by Hbox!
Am I the only one that notices how much plup silently johns?
Well played Hbox
can someone explain to me the rules sorrounding resets?
Marc Krapp-Kuhlmann a reset happens when the winner of loser side beats the winner of winner sides. since it's a double elimination tournament the winner from winner side needs to lose twice to be eliminated while the winner from loser side only need to lose one to be eliminated since he already lost 1 match before.
thank you
Marc Krapp-Kuhlmann if you come from losers you have lost one more set than the person from winners. Therefore the person from losers has to win grand finals two times. When the person from losers wins the first set of grand finals, it's called a "bracket reset" or "reset". Now both players are "from losers", since they've lost the same amount of times.
Aptly put, Mrs. Featherbottom. Aptly put. :3
i wanna be the guy who unlocks the characters
Jigglyplup grand finals!!!
Do these mods have FPS boosts
A Juan without a beard is a Juan not worth cheering for
He's not the Juan. :B
GG plup, you did well against the 2v1
*REST!*
All people complaining about the coaching. If they would watch more Melee, they would have noticed that HB was not playing seriously from the beginning and just as the reset started he went to his true play style.
I almost respected hbox for a second there
Hungrybox is a beast
Was hbox the only God that came?
Yes. Leffen and Armada were in a tournament in Sweden, Mew2king and Mang0 just took a break from tournies this week.
Huh. That explains that. I was hoping Plup made it on his own. :P
This Ceo was so short on talent. where were all the gods? Sfat, Druggedfox, chu?
Dreamhack was happening at the same time so that means no Leffen and Armada.Mang0 probably didn't want to go to a tournament "with only one god in it".But I'm not sure about Mew2king.
Pop's Sheik is super fast!!!
Plup...damn auto correct
i dont really mind hbox, he's a god obviously, and a good player, but its just not hype. It just feels...meh.
honestly, its not so much of hbox being there, as it was that armada and leffen and m2k and co. werent there. they make it much more interesting. And of course, i want my boi ppmd back :'(
goo Hbox! woohoo! yay! screw the haters!
you haven't lost my viewership!
midset coaching
People still play this meme of a game? lol
Sammy Aran u tried too hard with this bait dude
What?
Coachbox lol jk
Ughh
Getting so damn boring.
Boring
Honestly I see midset coaching as a good thing in the long run. Yes, It makes a lot of adaptation easier, but in a game between two coached players, it makes the each game even more about adapting to the other players adaptations and accelerates the process. It enables and therefore forces both players to play beyond their normal best play and ultimately make both players learn more with the help of their coaches after the match and improve.
However, this does fall apart when a coached player is put against a player without a coach. It has the opposite effect, as the coached player gets a distinct advantage. This is why there should be at least standardized restrictions on coaching, like restricting it to Top 8 matches, and/or restricting it to play against other coached players. Probably bad examples, but I'm no TO, but strong restrictions are necessary. On top of that, every sponsored player should get coaches paid by their sponsor.
Also if anyone's gonna bring up the whole "Smash is unique because it requires adaptation" argument I'm just gonna tell you right now its bullshit, because literally every direct competition sport on the planet requires adaptation. The way smash is unique to other sports is that a lot of people pick it up by themselves, rather than learning from someone else in person, and that mindset of "self-made" players is the reason people are against help from another person midset, and are even refusing it in the first place, in my opinion.
There is a dilemma though, not all players can get a coatch. The fact is that only the best players can get good coaches.
I'm not sure if this came across well during the comment, but in a world where midset coaching is a thing, it needs to be regulated to the point where if you are a top player, you don't have to worry about getting a coach and if you aren't a top player, you don't have to worry about running into a player who does, unless you're some hidden boss god, which at that point you've pretty much announced yourself to the world that you're actually a top player.
That is completely false, any good player can get a good coach. If you're not willing to pay them though then that's on you.
There is something about Hbox playstile that I just can't enjoy. I don't if it's because 95 percent of his moves are backair, or the fact that he almost never approaches. Thank God for Armada or every single tournament would be like this.
After finishing watching the video and looking at the crowd's reaction, I must say I am very sad for Melee. I remember how exciting top 8 used to be, but now that Hbox has adopted this super safe style, I wonder how many years Melee has left. It was a good game while it lasted.
eric swag what do you mean? Even if Hbox has adapted to this play style, it forces fox mains to have to improve and makes the meta overall more diverse. I don't truly understand the negativity Hbox gets for choosing to play a more patient micro spacing character that is more challenging. Plus, if playing like he does is so boring and easy why is he the only puff?
It forces Fox mains to camp laser, which makes the game more boring as you will end up with two campy super safe play styles. I did not say it was easy, but it is certainly boring to watch. 90 percent of his attacks are backair and he only ever attacks when it's super safe. Compare it to an NBA team that takes the lead and then stops attacking, so they instead pass the ball around without making any attempts to score. NBA has rules against that and that's why NBA is exciting. Hbox tournaments? Boring and honestly I always watch something else if I get the feeling that it will be a boring safe campy tournament. Hbox might think "I only care about winning" but there won't be a melee scene for much longer, most top players already realize that.
eric swag Are you fucking joking?
Literally the "muh shiny lasers" argument.
Armada is the one camping against Hbox. Notice that whenever Hbox doesn't get camped he almost always wins the encounter. Approaching recklessly because of lasers is a bad strategy. Hbox tries to dodge them.
It's funny because nobody else camps except for people who play Hbox. He is the constant in campy matches. I understand that you're an Hbox fan but everyone knows Hbox is not good for the scene. Notice how you have nothing to say about how 90 percent of his attacks are backair because it's an undeniable fact. It's okay, try to make a decent argument instead of spouting memes next time though.
As much as I respect different playstyles and enjoy some variety in the characters used, as soon as hbox got the first stock after the bracket reset I stopped wanting to watch. I'm on Leffen's side when it comes to the TO's needing to do something about this.
I truly don't get why Hbox has fans other than he's a nice guy. Lame
"nice"
mrnintendo88 because of his passion for the game, he truly lives for melee and has inspired many people, and as you said, hes a nice guy
mrnintendo88 nothing to do with being nice, if that's even true In the first place. The guy is good at the game, end of.
mrnintendo88 hbox has fans because he's good at the game. Really good.
Having met him and interviewed him and spent time at various events...I personally didn't think he was very nice at all. Pretty rude actually
At Genesis 4 when he was practicing for a set and I asked him for a picture, he said yes. Mang0 on the other hand wanted me to stick around until after the set. Hbox was nice to me.
Commentators are kind of annoying