This is the first time ever - and I have a long history of impingement - that someone can really explain why those overhead presses are not a good idea and what exactly happens! I wish there would be more trainers and physio therapists who know exactly this.
@@cruelreality7600 I guess like explained in this great video, it would be side raises (and there are probably more I guess) since they fully contract the shoulder muscles. They seem to be safe if you dont exceed the range of motion. For me no overhead presses anymore!
@@TheSpritz0 Rotator cuff specific exercises on the cable and stretching (carefully) shoulders, chest and lats. While I had acute inflammation I would only do what doesnt hurt and use Peptides for healing (BPC and TB).
Good stuff. Ditch the OH press. They used to be a staple exercise along with laterals. Stopped doing them and lo and behold, the strain and periodic pain is all gone. Delts feel great and look great. No loss of muscle at all. It’s all about the laterals for delt specific hypertrophy. Overall I’ve removed all barbell and Db presses horz and vert, all bb rows, no deads...I still do very light squats with a barbell every so often but not a mainstay. I’ve replaced with better choices per my learnings from Doug. I get compliments all the time, and peeps be confused when I tell them I don’t do all the traditional compound movements. Still get a lot of resistance from peeps cause that’s all they know. Like Doug mentions, just try it and learn for yourself. I know at first I was hesitant to ditch all these old school exercises for “ isolation” type movements. Give it a shot
@@SmartTraining365Biomechanics agreed. I see a lot of wasted effort and redundancy in people’s workouts. Just pick 1 or 2 effective exercise and smash it and done. Why do 4 different presses for chest ? Just pick one and done.
I much prefer standing cable raises with the wrist ring attachment (as Doug recommends and does himself)... than lying dumbell raises as you bypass the wrist grip fatigue from holding a dumbell as the grip would fatigue before the delts do.
So I do this exercise on my freemotion. Currently at 12.5lbs each set and it’s plenty… I’ve only used the wrist cuff. What I don’t understand is why I’m using the wrist cuff. To be honest I just use it because I trust Doug (RIP) but I don’t see how the grip would fatigue before the delts do. I think there is some confusion with this.
I've been doing press behind neck for thirty years... and just accepting that I get pain and injuries from time to time... duh!! A Facebook friend put me onto Doug Brignole a few days ago. I'm completely re-assessing my routine now. This guy is brilliant.
Long-term fan of Doug. I've got two things: 1. Overhead press can be done safely with proper technique as per instructions from Starting Strength. Scalpula rotates up and opens up the space between acromion and humerus. You can check out the video with Mike Rippetoe explaining this. I am not saying that OHP is a good bodybuilding exercise. 2. The biggest problem with any type of lateral raise is the impingement. The solution is to do a Y raise (to the head height) with cables or light unconnected band from the stomach height in front of the body. This slightly externally rotates the humerus so it doesn't run into the acromion. This is much better exercise with better contraction. You can check my video so you know what I mean: th-cam.com/video/M1MXRbewLCc/w-d-xo.html It is the same movement just standing up.
Thank you for your feedback. Some people have different unreal head and more joints mobility, they can get away with it, but it's hard to know. Most of the side delts exercises we recommend are joints friendly, but if the person already have an injury or was injured it's hard to get optimal results.
Doug one thing I can see is that because many people are training at home and don't have cables for these best excercises there must be a secondary list also that you can do at home. For example lying on your side laterals where the resistance is heavier when lying down and decreased at top of movement. Anyway, dumbell excercises for those who don't have access to cables.
You can get creative with resistance bands as an alternative to cables. Not as good because resistance increases as the bands stretch but you can preload them to make up for it a bit.
@@wataboutya9310 Interesting you say that. I tied a bike tire tube to a steel railing bannister and pulled in to do lat excercises. Now the foundation is loose from pulling so hard!
Yup! I never tried them before but did after reading his book. Holy crap. I can bb press 315 for 8 reps but get my ass kicked by 25lb lying side raises lol...
@Iron Vegan I agree! Literally the only thing I'm still having a hard time adjusting to with Doug's principles are the super high set count. Im coming from a hit/dorian style background so it's a really shock to pace the sets out
@@wataboutya9310 the side delt movements are so hard that its almost impossible to do the 50-40-30-20-15 cadence to start the sets with progressing weights! Lol
I injured my infraspinatus and had nerve damage from a tear. I think it tore near one of the suscapularis nerve. My infraspinatus was completely gone it took me a year to recover and now its back to were it was in 2 years. Thr worse thing, I had to figure this out myself because doctors didn't know what was going on. Infraspinatus damage is very serious, im willing to bet many overhead athletes have this condition and it eventually ended their career. Take care of your infraspinatus.
overhead dumbbell presses can be much more safer if only elbows would point to a 45deg angle. i do hspu and always try to keep my elbows close not wide.
I have the book and the content makes sense to me. However when I started implementing the exercises as well as higher reps, I aggravated my golfers/tennis elbow. I also aggravated my shoulder (that I had not had problems with in the past) doing lying dumbbell side raises. I ended up stopping the isolation exercises and went to physical therapy back in July. The elbow issues are gone but still having slight issues with shoulder. Wanted to point out that while the upper body exercises seem to make sense biomechanically, they did not do well for my joints, at least on my right arm.
Your problem is that you already had shoulder issues. His suggestions are for avoiding the injuries that you initiated when you decided to play Golf/ Tennis or whatever has caused the Elbow trauma.
@@olderthanyoucali8512 If you reread my comment, I had not had previous shoulder problems. I don't play golf or tennis, I was just using the terms to describe the injuries, could have said medial and lateral epicondylitis. Perhaps this stems from my middle school pithing career (20 years ago). Even if it did I just want to point that some of the exercises Doug is recommending, specifically dumbbells triceps press and lying dumbbell lateral raise, and a bit of the lying dumbbell front delt press gave me issues that I didn't get from compound movements or standing lateral raises.
The BRIG-20 exercises are based on the most natural human musculoskeletal motions, and encourage using a resistance curve that causes optimal muscle loading, in sync with the natural strength curve of all skeletal muscles. This is all perfectly safe for joints that have not been previously injured or are not currently compromised. Previous joint damage often compromises anatomical function, even when performing a natural, normally safe movement. In such cases, anatomical motion or the application of resistance might need to be modified-sometimes in ways that limit optimum muscle stimulation. This is unfortunate, but necessary. Every joint injury is different, based on the circumstances which caused the injury. It is therefore impossible to address all possible exercise modifications for all possible joint injuries. Our exercise recommendations are intended for people whose joints are not compromised. A person who has joint limitations, due to a previous injury, will naturally be limited in many ways including exercise. This may require individual modification of any movement that involves a previously injured joint. Sometimes, a previous injury will limit the range of motion of a particular joint. Other times, a previous injury will allow full range of motion but movement will be more fragile (more weak or more painful) during the early part, or possibly the latter part, of that range of motion. For example, a previously injured Supraspinatus may prevent any motion during the latter part of a Side Raise (Lateral Abduction of the humerus). Or, it may make the early part of the range of motion more fragile, painful or weak. This might might be due to the fact that the Supraspinatus participates most during the first 10 degrees of a Side Raise. Therefore, it might be uncomfortable to “early phase load” that part of the movement. In such a case, it would be better to “late phase load” the Side Raise, despite the fact that “late phase loading” does not quite sync with the strength curve of the Lateral Deltoid, and would therefore slightly compromise the muscle development benefit. This is simply an unfortunate consequence of having previously injured the shoulder joint. An upright Side Raise provides little or no resistance during the early part of the range of motion (when the Deltoid is strongest), but it would be a more comfortable application of resistance if the early part of that motion is compromised by the injury. Most shoulder injuries result in the latter part of the range of motion being compromised. In those cases, “early phase loading” is not only more productive, but also more advisable since the latter part of the range of motion might need to be omitted entirely. Many people are unable to perform activities or anatomical motions that are otherwise perfectly safe, due to individual injuries. That would not lead us to conclude that the activities are unsafe. Walking, climbing stairs and bending over at a drinking fountain are safe, but some people are unable to perform those motions, depending on a previous injury they may have had. Any motion that includes the use of resistance elevates the risk of discomfort, if a joint has been previously injured. The greater the resistance used, the greater the odds of joint discomfort, if the joint has been previously injured. Depending on the specifics of an injury, it’s possible that a normally safe motion would be uncomfortable, while a normally unsafe motion may be more comfortable-due to the nature of the individual injury.
@@SmartTraining365Biomechanics Thank you for this detailed response! I have noticed that when doing lateral raises with little to no weight, that my right shoulder has a bit of a grind towards the top of the range of motion but my left does not. It isn't painful but suggests that the joint is somewhat compromised and potentially why I got pain after doing weighted laterals for a few weeks. I will have to figure out what the issue is and limit the range of motion. Maybe I have my baseball days to thank for this.
8:29 instead of "reverse armwrestle" your wrist backwards to achieve the straight up-and-down forearm, why not move your elbow forward a few inches to achieve the same neutral lever? Granted there will still be less range of motion at the lowest point of the movement however there'll be less strain on rotator cuff and with the humeral head not raising directly to the side, less impingement on the bursa since it clears the acromion by moving forwards.
Doug is there any chance you and Joe Bennett aka hypertrophy coach friends because you both have very similar ideas on exercises. I just learned about you and really like what I am seeing so far.
Ohp is my favorite exercise I'm up to 2 plates One thing I was always taught was to lean back at the bar is in line with the center point of gravity and the shoulder is in a better position. Shoulders feel great with that. It's just the bench that always hurt mine.
@@SmartTraining365Biomechanics the simple breaking down of how the body works, and the most effective way to train it for longevity and painfree has been wonderful. I wish I would have found this info 10 years ago. Lol.
Sir one query please at 15 minutes, it is said that by doing overhead press we are changing the infraspinatus position from A to B that is lesser tubercle of humerus shifts from A to B and at B muscle is not efficient. My query is if at B what is that its not efficient for ? At B, infraspinatus will create a joint compressive force as humerus is laterally rotated at GH joint and dynamically stabilize the humeral head. Besides it is more efficienctly contracting as of better reduced angle. kindly throw some light. Thank you.
The side deltoid is just as large as the posterior and anterior deltoid put together, so it makes sense to work hard on them.
Got your book and folks this is golden! Such common sense but what a fight on the gyms that move to whatever they can sell. I am with you...........
Enjoy the book🙏
What is the name of the book
This is the first time ever - and I have a long history of impingement - that someone can really explain why those overhead presses are not a good idea and what exactly happens! I wish there would be more trainers and physio therapists who know exactly this.
That's our mission, spread the word and inform people that there's a better way
So what should we do instead of shoulder press?
@@cruelreality7600 I guess like explained in this great video, it would be side raises (and there are probably more I guess) since they fully contract the shoulder muscles. They seem to be safe if you dont exceed the range of motion. For me no overhead presses anymore!
If I can ask, what did you do to cure the impingement??
@@TheSpritz0 Rotator cuff specific exercises on the cable and stretching (carefully) shoulders, chest and lats. While I had acute inflammation I would only do what doesnt hurt and use Peptides for healing (BPC and TB).
Gold! That's what I see again today in another one of Doug's videos. Nice pics to explain the biomechanics too.
Good stuff. Ditch the OH press. They used to be a staple exercise along with laterals. Stopped doing them and lo and behold, the strain and periodic pain is all gone. Delts feel great and look great. No loss of muscle at all. It’s all about the laterals for delt specific hypertrophy. Overall I’ve removed all barbell and Db presses horz and vert, all bb rows, no deads...I still do very light squats with a barbell every so often but not a mainstay. I’ve replaced with better choices per my learnings from Doug. I get compliments all the time, and peeps be confused when I tell them I don’t do all the traditional compound movements. Still get a lot of resistance from peeps cause that’s all they know. Like Doug mentions, just try it and learn for yourself. I know at first I was hesitant to ditch all these old school exercises for “ isolation” type movements. Give it a shot
Absolutely! No waste of effort
@@SmartTraining365Biomechanics agreed. I see a lot of wasted effort and redundancy in people’s workouts. Just pick 1 or 2 effective exercise and smash it and done. Why do 4 different presses for chest ? Just pick one and done.
What the fuck do you even do then? No pressing, no deadlifts, no squats? Can you post a workout…
I haven't done the vertical press for two years now after reading Doug Bregnuli's article ,I now do only lying lateral abduction of the dumbbell.
I much prefer standing cable raises with the wrist ring attachment (as Doug recommends and does himself)... than lying dumbell raises as you bypass the wrist grip fatigue from holding a dumbell as the grip would fatigue before the delts do.
@@Visiblyblue if you buy a set of resistance bands, you can use the ankle straps
So I do this exercise on my freemotion. Currently at 12.5lbs each set and it’s plenty… I’ve only used the wrist cuff. What I don’t understand is why I’m using the wrist cuff. To be honest I just use it because I trust Doug (RIP) but I don’t see how the grip would fatigue before the delts do. I think there is some confusion with this.
I've been doing press behind neck for thirty years... and just accepting that I get pain and injuries from time to time... duh!! A Facebook friend put me onto Doug Brignole a few days ago. I'm completely re-assessing my routine now. This guy is brilliant.
Long-term fan of Doug. I've got two things:
1. Overhead press can be done safely with proper technique as per instructions from Starting Strength. Scalpula rotates up and opens up the space between acromion and humerus. You can check out the video with Mike Rippetoe explaining this. I am not saying that OHP is a good bodybuilding exercise.
2. The biggest problem with any type of lateral raise is the impingement. The solution is to do a Y raise (to the head height) with cables or light unconnected band from the stomach height in front of the body. This slightly externally rotates the humerus so it doesn't run into the acromion. This is much better exercise with better contraction. You can check my video so you know what I mean: th-cam.com/video/M1MXRbewLCc/w-d-xo.html
It is the same movement just standing up.
Thank you for your feedback. Some people have different unreal head and more joints mobility, they can get away with it, but it's hard to know. Most of the side delts exercises we recommend are joints friendly, but if the person already have an injury or was injured it's hard to get optimal results.
Doug one thing I can see is that because many people are training at home and don't have cables for these best excercises there must be a secondary list also that you can do at home. For example lying on your side laterals where the resistance is heavier when lying down and decreased at top of movement. Anyway, dumbell excercises for those who don't have access to cables.
You can get creative with resistance bands as an alternative to cables. Not as good because resistance increases as the bands stretch but you can preload them to make up for it a bit.
@@wataboutya9310 Interesting you say that. I tied a bike tire tube to a steel railing bannister and pulled in to do lat excercises. Now the foundation is loose from pulling so hard!
Added pulleys to my power rack...low, high and mid...added sissy squats...the book is coming...
Btw lying side dumbelle lat raise are a killer
Yup! I never tried them before but did after reading his book. Holy crap. I can bb press 315 for 8 reps but get my ass kicked by 25lb lying side raises lol...
@Iron Vegan I agree! Literally the only thing I'm still having a hard time adjusting to with Doug's principles are the super high set count. Im coming from a hit/dorian style background so it's a really shock to pace the sets out
You're set, Now knock off the power lifting and the overhead press.
@@gregz1235 Don't feel bad, I had to use a 10LB dumbbell on those lying side raises!!
@@wataboutya9310 the side delt movements are so hard that its almost impossible to do the 50-40-30-20-15 cadence to start the sets with progressing weights! Lol
Thanks for sharing your knowledge
I injured my infraspinatus and had nerve damage from a tear. I think it tore near one of the suscapularis nerve. My infraspinatus was completely gone it took me a year to recover and now its back to were it was in 2 years. Thr worse thing, I had to figure this out myself because doctors didn't know what was going on.
Infraspinatus damage is very serious, im willing to bet many overhead athletes have this condition and it eventually ended their career. Take care of your infraspinatus.
overhead dumbbell presses can be much more safer if only elbows would point to a 45deg angle. i do hspu and always try to keep my elbows close not wide.
I have the book and the content makes sense to me. However when I started implementing the exercises as well as higher reps, I aggravated my golfers/tennis elbow. I also aggravated my shoulder (that I had not had problems with in the past) doing lying dumbbell side raises. I ended up stopping the isolation exercises and went to physical therapy back in July. The elbow issues are gone but still having slight issues with shoulder. Wanted to point out that while the upper body exercises seem to make sense biomechanically, they did not do well for my joints, at least on my right arm.
Your problem is that you already had shoulder issues. His suggestions are for avoiding the injuries that you initiated when you decided to play Golf/ Tennis or whatever has caused the Elbow trauma.
@@olderthanyoucali8512 If you reread my comment, I had not had previous shoulder problems. I don't play golf or tennis, I was just using the terms to describe the injuries, could have said medial and lateral epicondylitis. Perhaps this stems from my middle school pithing career (20 years ago). Even if it did I just want to point that some of the exercises Doug is recommending, specifically dumbbells triceps press and lying dumbbell lateral raise, and a bit of the lying dumbbell front delt press gave me issues that I didn't get from compound movements or standing lateral raises.
The BRIG-20 exercises are based on the most natural human musculoskeletal motions, and encourage using a resistance curve that causes optimal muscle loading, in sync with the natural strength curve of all skeletal muscles. This is all perfectly safe for joints that have not been previously injured or are not currently compromised.
Previous joint damage often compromises anatomical function, even when performing a natural, normally safe movement. In such cases, anatomical motion or the application of resistance might need to be modified-sometimes in ways that limit optimum muscle stimulation. This is unfortunate, but necessary.
Every joint injury is different, based on the circumstances which caused the injury. It is therefore impossible to address all possible exercise modifications for all possible joint injuries. Our exercise recommendations are intended for people whose joints are not compromised. A person who has joint limitations, due to a previous injury, will naturally be limited in many ways including exercise. This may require individual modification of any movement that involves a previously injured joint.
Sometimes, a previous injury will limit the range of motion of a particular joint. Other times, a previous injury will allow full range of motion but movement will be more fragile (more weak or more painful) during the early part, or possibly the latter part, of that range of motion.
For example, a previously injured Supraspinatus may prevent any motion during the latter part of a Side Raise (Lateral Abduction of the humerus). Or, it may make the early part of the range of motion more fragile, painful or weak. This might might be due to the fact that the Supraspinatus participates most during the first 10 degrees of a Side Raise. Therefore, it might be uncomfortable to “early phase load” that part of the movement.
In such a case, it would be better to “late phase load” the Side Raise, despite the fact that “late phase loading” does not quite sync with the strength curve of the Lateral Deltoid, and would therefore slightly compromise the muscle development benefit. This is simply an unfortunate consequence of having previously injured the shoulder joint.
An upright Side Raise provides little or no resistance during the early part of the range of motion (when the Deltoid is strongest), but it would be a more comfortable application of resistance if the early part of that motion is compromised by the injury.
Most shoulder injuries result in the latter part of the range of motion being compromised. In those cases, “early phase loading” is not only more productive, but also more advisable since the latter part of the range of motion might need to be omitted entirely.
Many people are unable to perform activities or anatomical motions that are otherwise perfectly safe, due to individual injuries. That would not lead us to conclude that the activities are unsafe. Walking, climbing stairs and bending over at a drinking fountain are safe, but some people are unable to perform those motions, depending on a previous injury they may have had.
Any motion that includes the use of resistance elevates the risk of discomfort, if a joint has been previously injured. The greater the resistance used, the greater the odds of joint discomfort, if the joint has been previously injured. Depending on the specifics of an injury, it’s possible that a normally safe motion would be uncomfortable, while a normally unsafe motion may be more comfortable-due to the nature of the individual injury.
@@SmartTraining365Biomechanics Thank you for this detailed response! I have noticed that when doing lateral raises with little to no weight, that my right shoulder has a bit of a grind towards the top of the range of motion but my left does not. It isn't painful but suggests that the joint is somewhat compromised and potentially why I got pain after doing weighted laterals for a few weeks. I will have to figure out what the issue is and limit the range of motion. Maybe I have my baseball days to thank for this.
8:29 instead of "reverse armwrestle" your wrist backwards to achieve the straight up-and-down forearm, why not move your elbow forward a few inches to achieve the same neutral lever? Granted there will still be less range of motion at the lowest point of the movement however there'll be less strain on rotator cuff and with the humeral head not raising directly to the side, less impingement on the bursa since it clears the acromion by moving forwards.
Doug is there any chance you and Joe Bennett aka hypertrophy coach friends because you both have very similar ideas on exercises. I just learned about you and really like what I am seeing so far.
Sir make a training DVD Already...please.
This is the closest to a DVD, there's everything you need in details.
smarttraining-365.teachable.com/p/the-brignole-method-webinar-series/
$$$$$$$$
Ohp is my favorite exercise
I'm up to 2 plates
One thing I was always taught was to lean back at the bar is in line with the center point of gravity and the shoulder is in a better position.
Shoulders feel great with that. It's just the bench that always hurt mine.
Should we have a dedicated shoulder day ? Or should we pair shoulders with chest ? Or back? When weight training
This same channel made a video discussing this called "Muscle Grouping" it's all there...
Awesome info! But it didn't say how to train the deltoids properly. It's almost all about what's wrong with the shoulder press. Well done, thuogh!
Doug I workout by your brig 20 and it's great . You sent me a email about designing a workout program and I will be hitting you up
So hand stands should be removed from my bucket list?
yes, unless you're a competitive gymnast, and even then you probably do not need them.
Where can i get the pdf version of the book?
For details about the E-book, please email at SmartTraining365@gmail.com
So what workout replacement with?
th-cam.com/video/IpjkB9Ucxmc/w-d-xo.html
@@SmartTraining365Biomechanics this channel is increasingly becoming my go to. 👍👍
@@peetos-chan2835 we are happy to hear that! What do you find in our channel that you don't find somewhere else?
@@SmartTraining365Biomechanics the simple breaking down of how the body works, and the most effective way to train it for longevity and painfree has been wonderful. I wish I would have found this info 10 years ago. Lol.
Sir one query please at 15 minutes, it is said that by doing overhead press we are changing the infraspinatus position from A to B that is lesser tubercle of humerus shifts from A to B and at B muscle is not efficient. My query is if at B what is that its not efficient for ? At B, infraspinatus will create a joint compressive force as humerus is laterally rotated at GH joint and dynamically stabilize the humeral head. Besides it is more efficienctly contracting as of better reduced angle. kindly throw some light. Thank you.
Answer is in the Ebook and the course
I follow charles glass instead of this so called master. Master at what???
Who said he was a "master"?