Cleganebowl: My Least Favorite ASOIAF Theory (and how to fix it)
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 21 พ.ค. 2024
- Hello everyone! Today I'm discussing Cleganebowl, why it would suck in #asongoficeandfire, why it DID suck in Game of Thrones, and a much better alternative that could occur in the Winds of WInter.
Be sure to subscribe if you enjoyed this video! What do you think? Is there anything I missed? What do you think of #houseofthedragon so far? More #asoiaf content is on the way!
The @AltShiftX videos I reference:
Jojen Paste: • Jojen Paste: does Bran...
The Gravedigger: • Gravedigger: will the ...
Thank you all for watching! I'll be back with more theories next week! Character art in this video is by TheMico!
My Twitter: / quinnthegm
00:00 Origins of a Theorist
01:05 Three Mini-Theories
01:28 The Fate of the Hound
02:40 Gravedigger
03:28 Robert Strong
04:26 the REAL Robert Strong
04:38 Cleganebowl
05:25 The Many Problems with Cleganebowl
06:49 A Different Fraternal Showdown
07:19 Squidbowl
07:44 Victarion's Arc
08:28 Euron's Ambitions
09:13 The Brothers' Fates
09:50 Conclusions - บันเทิง
Never thought I would ever see Quinn cover the theory that Alt Shift X and Alt Shwift X are the same person.
least insane Preston Jacob theory be like:
3/10 not very likely but possible.
Just a pretender
clearly Schwifty is a horse
sure whatever I’ll believe that Maggie the frog is Azor Ahai before I ever fall for the Shift/Schwift tinfoil
If squidbowl happens it’ll end with Victarion grabbing Euron and throwing himself in full armour into the waves and down to the drowned god. The first Vic chapter mentions the danger of armour dragging someone down and so it would be a nice circle round. Plus Euron needs to die in the most Iron Islands old school way possible, on account of him treating his entire people like suckers.
Isn't valyrian armor/steel super light?
@@ranfan1820 True for Euron. But Victarion wears regular chain and plate.
specifically Euron needs to be a POV character and remark about how stupid his people are for wearing normal armor. He begins to swim to safety and then- OH MY DROWNED GOD IT'S VICTARION GREYJOY WITH THE STEEL PLATE
The hound could kill his brother as a mercy killing. Only commiting violence one final time not out of revenge but to free his brother from his new found false life.
I've considered this possibility too. This isn't going to be an epic fight to the death for the fanboys, but an act of mercy where "Robert Strong" doesn't even fight.
Is the mountain worthy of mercy? It would be perhaps an inverse of what happened with Arya and Sandor. I think he'd give that kindness.
@@atari947 Mercy and justice arent the same
@@atari947He's not worthy at all. That's why it would be even more meaningful for Sandor to do it. Ending his brother's suffering is a great way to move on from his past.
@@donniejefferson9554 You nailed it. Of course the Mountain doesn't deserve mercy. But that's the entire point of mercy - it isn't something that only the deserving should have. And that's exactly the sort of point that Geroge would be trying to make by having the Hound end his brother's suffering.
We only believe in non-shit theories here… like Ned + Omni-Walder = Hotpie
Everyone is either a horse or Rhaegar. (Who is also secretly a horse.)
@@thing_under_the_stairs *Or Ashara&Arthur Dayne who secretly swapped identities and, after faking their deaths, became a horse without each others' knowledge.
@@silver057 Can't forget that Arthur Dayne is Coldhands, Daario Naharis, and Azor Ahai, all at once. And also a horse.
and euron greyjoy and mance rayder@@thing_under_the_stairs
Ned + random whores = more bastards than Robert. Jon was the only one anyone found out about.
I believe there will be a confrontation between the Clegane brothers, but it will center around Sandor giving the gift of mercy to the undead Gregor. It may play out like combat, even a fight to the death, but at its core it will be about forgiveness and redemption. And restoring the natural order. Valar morghulis!
The one part everyone seems to believe I disagree with is that they will fight at Cersei's trial. Nobody really noticed Robert Strong yet from the Faith side. It would make more sense for him to wipe the floor with the Faith's champion and then news would quickly spread of this new, giant kingsguard who is seemingly undefeatable. Then the "Gravedigger" could eventually hear about it. Also, Bran's vision of the stone giant and the hound involved a figure in golden armour, so presumably if/when they fight, Jaime will also be there to help out (and he has valonqar business to do because frankly, nobody else makes sense).
What people don't know is that Robert Strong is The Mountain's body with Ned Stark''s head. My uncle is GRRM's landscaper and told me years ago that this was the twist for the ending.
Bran's vision is only of a "man with the face of a hound, and another armored like the sun" against the zombie mountain. His hound helmet is also suspiciously being passed around first by Rorge and then Lem Lemoncloak. It could just be someone else wearing it during the confrontation and Brienne is pretty maimed in the face at this point. So it honestly could be her and Jaime fighting the Mountain. We really don't know for sure yet.
@@pokeman5000'Suspiciously passed around' is key.
Can't wait for Daynebowl (Darkstar vs. Ned Dayne)
My only gripe with Squidbowl is that I hope that Euron is actually taken out by the eldritch monstrosities he’s trying to summon. I think it would be fitting for a character with such godly ambitions to be betrayed by these creatures that are seemingly beyond human comprehension plus it would tie in to the overall message of magic being hard to control and something not to be trifled with.
Same. I'd love to see Euron go through his big blood sacrifice ritual, only to be devoured by whatever eldritch abomination he's conjured up. Hasn't he ever read his Lovecraft?
I like this bc it goes back to what Grrm said "sorcery is a sword without a hilt"
AltShift's Jojen Paste vids was one of the first that got me into the fandom too! I remember laying in bed totally freaked out by it hahaha
Sandor is such a well written character. Even after there's clearly nothing to gain from it and despite his claims not to care he keeps Arya around just to look out for her. That's not even mentioning his character development in Kings Landing and how he's a perfect foil for his evil brother.
Not shocked they ran with spectacle over solid character arcs in the show. Like, even if Sandor picks up his sword again, it won't be to fulfil revenge. Instead, I'd like to think he'll do it to defend the smallfolk as something like a hedge knight, coming full circle from doing the bidding of lords for no reason other than doing what he's told.
That would make him Dunk 2.0, a True Knight, for sure. May never have been anointed, may not have the proof, but he's a True Knight.
@mellowyello1478 a more cynical Dunk though, for sure. Probably more in the vein of Guts from Berserk.
hey dunk might not have been anointed too.@@mellowyello1478
Reading and seeing the brief fight between The Hound and The Mountain was all we really needed. The Hound was a badass in that moment, and he won the tourney technically. Loved when everyone clapped for him afterwards 😂
I think the only interaction left for The Hound and The Mountain is a one-off account of a large Gravedigger somberly digging a very large grave for a large headless body while a septon does a prayer.
My theory is that the Mountain will become a Cleganebowl of brown.
Sounds much less tasty that a squidbowl, tbh. Squidbowl sounds like a yummy Greek or Japanese lunch item.
You actually used my theory name!! It’s unfortunate that the Squidbowl might not happen, but it makes way more sense(and it’d be way more epic; almost like an anime showdown lol) Great video as always!
(I was the one person who said Squidbowl in a recent stream that you and Fantasy Haven did)
Well, if Martin wants to give Sandor the 'doing the right thing' redemption moment, then I agree, seeking out his brother to off him in revenge would be an odd choice. In that case, Sandor should only pick up his sword to defend Arya, Sansa, or the Living. BUT Martin doesn't always make his characters do the correct thing, take the high road. Sandor might be trying to shed his past self, but if his heart is still in conflict... what if he comes to see ending his brother as his duty, maybe? The easy to atone for his own sins (by taking out an even worse sinner). Or if the reachable moment to the reader would be "don't do that" instead? Not everyone can make it through the tunnel, the Hound might be trying, but he also might be too far gone. And if he realises that true transformation is not possible for him through pius living and grave digging, then maybe he would abandon his new life for something that he is good at?
I'd be pretty interested to see theories from before the release of the previous books. I know there aren't as many, probably, but it would be cool to see what theories came true and what ones didn't. Might be a helpful gage for what to expect in the winds of winter.
Yes! I’d love to know if anyone figured out what the red wedding foreshadowings were or guessed that Lysa killed Jon Arryn
@@sarahchicago yes, it's been revealed that Lysa killed Jon before she fell through the moon door.
@sarahchicago would be cool to see what people thought Aegon vi's landing in the storm lands was before dance was released, or if there were any crazy theories about how beylon greyjoy died
Giles Rosby being Robert Strong is my new favourite theory.
"Hello, Brother! We meet aga..."
"COUGH COUGH COUGH COUGH!"
"Oh, for fuck's sake!"
I'm sold. We must make Squidbowl happen.
Glad I found this channel, catching up on all the older videos. You are quickly moving up in my the ASOIAF content power rankings. Keep up the great work
I’m happy with a monk being his ending… but my problem is that it’s too early in the story for any living characters ending
Cleganebowl could work if is symbollically framing as sandor defending someone from Strong, and by killing that remain of his brother for a noble knightly reason that he puts the ghost of his tormento behind.
It _sounds_ cliche, but classics are classics for a reason. MArtin could pull it off perfectly and we dont need no more subverted expectations.
I don't see how sandor is going to be different from all the other characters martin has made that choose vengeance, infact he loves unhappy endings there is not one good ending in his works.
@@mesa577 there is straight up very idealistic moments sometimes tho, like Gregor and Tywin getting such a poetically karmic end to their lifes that almost seems like divine retribution. I bet walder frey will get one like that too.
Omg im also 23 and fell in love with asoiaf and alt shift x theory Videos when I was 16.
So incredible... I feel like we entered game of thrones right at its peak because we were able to binge season 5 meaning we didnt comprehend how shitty it really was at parts!
I called it that it would be the Greyjoybowl/Squidbowl in the community post. Being honest, I kind of want a cooler spin on Euron appearing out of nowhere to fight Jaime in the show.
Imagine a POV of Victarion, the 2 Greyjoy fleets are in battle (a storm starts during the battle for cool points), the flag ships clash and when Vic looks, Euron is there taunting his little brother right before their battle starts.
Was having a gloomy sunday, thank you for the pick me up Quinn 🙏
The ideal way I'd like Cleganebowl to unfold is if word of who (and what) Robert Strong is spreads, and Sandor seeks him out not for vengeance, but to grant Gregor the peace he now feels. Even before Qyburn got his hands on him Gregor's death was a tortuous one, and now Qyburn has made sure it hasn't even ended. Who knows how it feels to be Robert Strong, or whether he can even think about it at all anymore. Perhaps Sandor would seek to grant his brother the gift of mercy.
But why he would fight Lord Rosby over this is a headscratcher.
Bc Rosby is Azor Ahai, obviously
Squid Game, surely?
Your content is really good!
I also got into asoiaf through theory videos, I believe it was Preston Jacobs' Ironborn series, specifically the one about Euron being in league with dark powers. It really got me interested in the books so I read them. I've not made my first one yet, but it could be fun. My crackpot theory is that Varys is a woman, but I will have to put the evidence together before going further.
CHeers!
I thought this video was unexpected. I totally agree that Cleganebowl as a book theory would be rather un-inspired. Unless somehow the Mountain was released to do what he always is - war crimes and attrocities. Maybe if if if the High Sparrow flees to the Quiet Isle and the Mountain is sent to set it afire, and the Hound is forced to defend it and him no longer having knightly weapons and training must use fire... It could be interesting, the Hound fighting for something he believes in, his new familly, rather than fighting for others. If only us, the reader found out that this Robert Strong was the Mountain but Sandor remained unaware it could work.
However, your idea of Kraken-bowl with a surprise sweep by Theon the Just as the new Kraken King would be interesting!
This man’s content is absolutely god tier
Heck yeah Squidbowl. Martin doesn't like revenge plots (the Red Wedding emerged from his aversion to writing a story about a son avenging his father), so Cleganebowl has always seemed unlikely to me. I'm fond of the Gravedigger theory as an endgame for Sandor, particularly if word of it somehow reached Sansa. ,But with both Victarion and Euron being very negatively characterised I can see them coming undone in some sort of fratricidal punch-up. The question would be exactly how Victarion would go down - crash-tackling Euron into the water and narrating his efforts to drown them both, perhaps? Or maybe he drowns that way, focalising his own death, and Euron ends up the shattered post-Lovecraftian wreck he's been forecast to become. Both could be interesting - roll on winter, I say.
Lol his horses name is Stranger... Like The Stranger.
i agree about Cleganebowl - i would like to see Sandor confront his brother in some way, even if it’s by himself, letting all that go completely. also, i’m not a huge Victarion fan but you’re starting to convert me
As an aside, when I was 16 GRRM hadn't even released the first book of ASOIAF yet. 😂 Love your videos, keep up the good work!
I hope we actually get Cleganebowl in TWoW or ADoS and not Cleganestaircase like we got in S8.
Oh! I thought you were gonna explore the possible battle for the North between Bran and Rickon. But squids are cool too. Yeah, apocalypse squids. I 100% agree about Cleganebowl, and it would be cool to watch the squid brothers kill each other once Euron has played his part in service to the Others.
Haha after bingin a few of ya vids then subbin after the april fools vid. I hear your voice and expect to get played lmao
Honestly, The Mountain should have marched north randomly and gone missing, only to show up during the Long Night at Winterfel, being that he is practically dead. Then have the Hound and Mountain fight there.
I’d love it if we never heard from Sandor again. He is done with that life, he died and is born again to a simple existence
Love this 🙌….. I was holding out hope that Sandor’s quote in the tv show, “you know who is coming for you” was a nod to the return of Rhaegar, because who else has more of a revenge drive than him.
the best way to determine whether someone actually read the books is ask them their thoughts on Cleganebowl
My answer is I'm not sure sandor is alive
Awesome content 💯
I think Robert Strong will actually be UnJoff, to provide a Lannister parallel to UnCat. Remember that strong is linked to the idea of bastards and Joffrey elsewhere in the history, and also Qyburn couldn't use Gregor's head so he had to use a different head. If Qyburn is trying to make a bodyguard for Cersei Joffrey's ahead would make the most sense (and be the most horrifying).
I am just waiting for Lannister bowl: Tyrion Vs Jaime, Kinslayer Vs Kingslayer, Halfman Vs Half his hands, Mind Vs Matter, Pen vs Sword. GRRM even chopped Jaime's hand off to balance the fight. Plus the whole Tysha subplot to generate some beef before the big showdown. Winner gets a chain of golden hands as the prize belt and the right to claim the title of Valonqar.
Damn do i miss alt shift X
rip 👑
He should just be finishing up his Real Jon Snow Video. Said to be his longest video at over 2 hours long.
I thought about the squidbowl as well. I also think Victarion will clam the valyrian steel axe of House Celtigar and he will company Jon Show in beyond the wall in a "A Song of Ice and Fire"s version of suicide squad mission.
Company of the Cat made a video about Squidbowl being the catalyst of the Long Night. I think you'll like it.
I have this silly idea of Victarion and Euron becoming dragonriders at some point of the story and fighting with each other on dragons back. I hope battle above God's Eye between Daemon and Aemond foreshadows it and we will see Victarion jumping toward Euron , dragging him out from his saddle and them falling together towards ground while Victarion constantly beats Euron like he imagined many times.
I know it's stupid but try imagine that.
I think you’re right but you are missing the best outcome. Euron and Victarion have a long and vigorous duel but Euron finally deals a mortal blow to Victarion, but while he is gloating like the vain Ironborn he is, the weak and tortured Damphair sneaks up and stabs Euron in the neck.
Thats how you do a “Squidbowl”
I meant to talk about Aeron but it slipped my mind. You’re right that if anyone deserves vengeance on Euron, it’s him, but unfortunately I don’t think Aeron is long for this world.
If Squidbowl happens I like the idea that Victarion ends up picking up bits and pieces of religions while he's out in Essos and meeting Euron (an outspoken godless man) as a sort of avatar of all of them.
I kind of subscribe to I think it was In Deep Geek's theory? that Euron is ASOIAF's Saruman. i.e. that while he may be defeated before then, he'll be the final problem along the lines of the Scouring of the Shire. Will Victarion survive long enough for that? Lol idk.
i hope that we never get confirmation that the hound is the gravedigger and his fate is left ambiguous. it’d be a satisfying end to his story if he finally gets to quietly live out the rest of his life at the quiet isle in peace
I agree with your read on the themes, but we could absolutely aee Sandor head in a good direction only to, in the end, backslide, as Jaime sort of does in the show. (Or as Tyrion might in the books, heading towards darkness and then turning away from it).
I am very sure that he will be back in the story, i think the narrative isn't done with him, but idk if there will be a clegane bowl.
IIRC "Robert Strong" always wears a great helm because he literally doesn't have a head.
The Lannisters sent the Mountain's skull to the Martells as proof of his death.
They sent *a* skull... no proof it was Greg's
@@SuperMickyChow It was sooooper big skull
@@MesaperProductions I'm afraid without DNA evidence I can't believe it was definitely Big Greg's!
Watching Cleganebowl videos with no dubstep is like walking through a mall with no people.
The idea of Jon Snow coming back as Lord Stoneheart never occurred to me and would be an interesting idea, what his aspirations would be if they took too long to revive him and he became of evil heart. Warging into Ghost will definitely preserve his personality, but I imagine an evil Jon Snow would kill the Night's Watch who killed him first, dismantle the Watch, and likely combine with Lady Stoneheart and squash out the Boltons. Just a fun idea.
Not only is Victarion's arc about vengeance, but also change as well. Viccy is about as traditional an Iron Islander as they get; for all of his many, many flaws he does at least seem to prefer doing things the honourable way and trusting more to his and his crews strengths than trickery or magic.
Euron, on the other hand, scorns the old ways and seeks other paths to power, denouncing the gods themselves and daring anyone who takes exception to it to do something about him. He seems unassailable now but who knows what state either of them will be in in another books time.
Yeah, now that u mention it I really can’t think of anyone who could kill either of these brothers besides themselves, maybe Asha if she turns up late to the sea battle but I doubt Stannis would allow that, plus even if Stannis had died by then idk if she’d have enough time to get her ships crewed and ready in time
If anything, a "Squidbowl" between Euron and Victarion would serve as a nice parallel or contrast with "Cleganebowl" during the battle of King's Landing in A Dream of Spring.
The reality for the plot of ASOIAF is that something like a "Cleganebowl" clearly needs to happen (as even the show recognized), as there are issues that still need to be resolved between Sandor and his brother; it just won't be during a trial by combat for Cersei against the Faith of the Seven (and hopefully better written than Season 8 showed, especially with regards to Sandor's motives and character arc).
But contrasting, for example, an act of mercy and forgiveness by Sandor, in destroying the undead corpse of his brother (and the monstrosity that he's become) as opposed to Victarion and Euron destroying each other, with Victarion consumed by vengeance... there's an interesting parallel that has been created between these two sets of brothers, that can clearly be used thematically.
I could actually see them taking place at the exact same time, to further enhance that thematic contrast.
The Stump
Versus
The Crow’s Eye
Squidbowl: 20XX(?)
XXXX*
8:20 You don't know who would take Euron out? Why Bran of course! Three words for you. Astral. Plane. Battle.
Since so many events in westores happen twice i could see Jon taking out Euron above the gods eye Jon slamming long claw through his one remaining eye
Dumb and Dumber unironiclly put more effort into a meme then the others which is insane
I've never thought about Squidbowl before and I mostly like it. Idk how much GRRM like Star Wars but it feels like he's setting them up as a Sith lord/apprentice pair.
Only question is how Euron, who while mad seems pretty savvy, would be stupid enough to let Victarion get close enough to threaten him. So my personal theory is that Theon would actually be the one to bring down Euron, maybe not directly but by being overlooked in his plans. But, Victarion could still be the instrument of destruction in this scenario.
I feel that maybe for his arc, it would make more sense for Sandor to be forced to face his brother, not because of vengeance but maybe as him being the only one that would be able to, or something like that.
So you could have all of that aspect of him not wanting to leave this new life behind, but also having to redeem himself for the past and etc.
My theory is somewhat convoluted, but inspired by how Sandor and Arya parted ways in the show. Not only do Sandor and Arya have a bond, but their stories parallel each other in a few very meaningful ways. Both have lost themselves in their pursuit of vengeance, both are survivors of severe childhood trauma, both have recently undeceased family members, etc. Anyway, my theory is that Arya has entered into a magical contract with the cult of the Faceless Men and will retain her identity only until she has crossed the final name off her list, whoever that may be. I honestly think it will be Sandor who saves her from this fate, and if she does leave Westeros for good and all, it will probably be to avoid fulfilling the contract with the FM. I also think that both Sandor and Arya may have to give mercy (‘the gift’) to their undead family members and this might end up what finally brings them back together. Their stories are very parallel, but it’s up to Sandor to bring Arya back from the path he knows all too well and I think this is what will save her from losing her identity for good.
NEVER SEEN SQUIDBOWL BEFORE BUT I LOVE IT SM MORE THEN CLEGANEBOWL
Glegane bowl would be more appealing and make more sense for Sandor's arc if Gregor were to become and Other after the White Walkers come south. Then it would not before revenge that Sandor fights, but to defend, whether it be Ned's girls or the faith.
Cleganebowl is so disrespectful to Sandor and the books in general, sometimes it seems that a good portion of readers are really not getting what the books are about.
I really hope that Sandor's story is done, of all the characters so far surprisingly he look like the only one that has any semblance of peace
Jesus Christ the Jojen Paste video was almost eight years ago...
7:46 I honestly completely agree. I feel like their arcs of hatred and vengeance would be best suited for a Northman/Amleth style fight to the death at the end.
It makes sense for Arya witness the Hound failing in his revenge and changing because of it
Off-topic, but as things stand at the moment, the Great Sept is the one building Cersei can't blow up, as the wildfyre beneath it was removed. She'd have to have it put back first, although that's possible. But there is still a bunch under the Dragonpit - Tyrion figured that was already the safest place for it, so it hasn't been removed. Tyrion also thinks that if his own trial-by-combat had been held in the Dragonpit, they could have charged admission and paid for Joffery's wedding and funeral both. That's the setting that's been foreshadowed in the books to be blown up while it's full of people. In my own view, this is foreshadowing the end of Cersei and Jaime as well, but that's a different off-topic topic.
Doesn't Bran have a vision in AGOT that suggests Jaime & Sandor will face the Mountain/Robert Strong together?
Also, my theory about Cerseri's trial is that the High Septon will call for a trial of seven, Cersei will not be able to field 7 champions, but Strong will face all of the Faith's 7 champions on his own and win on account of his strength and being undead. Any face off with Sandor will happen because of another reason.
I know for a fact that Sandor is dead and will stay dead. My uncle is GRRM's landscaper and he often asks my uncle his opinion and tells him certain things.
Alaras has to take in the role that arya sort of took up during the long night, maybe not at winterfell but certainly using their deadly archery skills to enact badassery. Chekov’s bow. Also, I’d to see squidbowl, but I think cleganebowl might still have merits. Because from Jaime until the end of dance, we see alot of the really skilled fighters sustaining permanent wounds but still having to face a dangerous battle after.
Cleganebowl was always such a meme, I never thought they actually would do it (never mind its thematic backtracking). But by the end of season 8, it was one of the few saving graces.
I heard somewhere that grrm basically ended the hounds story. He found peace at a monastery
Idk why, but I do find it important to note where the Greyjoys are in the world and where the magic is in the world.
Euron has his dark powers at the home of the Faith with his drowned Priest brother Aeron.
Victarion sees dragons in the East with his red preist and firey hand.
Asha and Theon up north by a weirwood. Where Bran and Bloodraven can see. In a camp with 3 different religions being practiced.
Important characters being in important places isn't crazy nor is pov characters being around important events. I do find it interesting that George has positioned the family this way.
Maybe one of Euron's bastards is with Aegon and the Greyjoys will win all 4 great battles at the start of Winds lol
7:20 Company of the Cat has a great video on Squidbowl and why it is better than the Clegane one
You were 16 when the Alt Shift X video was uploaded? God, I feel old now….
Am I tripping or do I remember Brien directly say she was surprised to see the hound Alive in one of her interactions with the brotherhood
lmao, the Hound's story really is gonna be "perhaps the real Cleganebowl were the friends we've made along the way"
I hated Cleganebowl in the show and was never really a fan of the theory back in the day, so I definitely agree with you.
I just want Sandor to live out his days in peace, it’s more fitting to his character.
Besides personally I think it’s unlikely we see Sandor in the series again. I think the intention of showing this gravedigger who’s clearly Sandor, as you’re basically getting hit over the head with references to him, is to say goodbye to him and to show us that he lived and that after years and years of trauma, he’s finally moving on and leaving all that behind.
I like the theory that perhaps Euron will team up with cersei like in thw show, possibly marry her, and victarion will kill her. It fits the phrophecy, because a lot of emphasis has been placed on victarions hand, and he wpuld technically be her younger brother, as well as victarion getting revenge on Euron.
I think the whiever is the faith's champion against Cesei is going to get slaughtered.
Afterwards Cersei will declare the faith an enemy of the king and unleash Bob Muscles on them. (Note Qyburns quote about his vow of silence). This also ties into Maegor the Cruel parelles i think which Cersei has a good bit of.
Under this context of defending the memebers of or even just worshipers of the Seven; that is when the Gravedigger if almost forced to come out of isolation and stop the monster that is Robert Strong.
I can see Clegane not fulfilling his character arc, only finding peace in death.
I like sqiudbowl a lot better than Clegane Bowl. I think you are right. For the Hound to sacrifice all his personal growth just to kill his zombie brother.
If cleganebowl happens, then i suppose only if Sandor has to defend the Faith‘s followers against violence
What if Cleganebowl didn’t require Sandor travelling to King’s Landing?
If KL is sacked in WoW, the Mountain might bail out (like Sandor did) and become a roaming scourge until Sandor is compelled to stop him.
So instead of a glorious trial by combat with 1,000 spectators, they both die alone in an unnamed field.
Maybe Victarion will sail west through Valyria for a faster route, and Euron will try to go east through Valyria to try and get to Daenerys, and they’ll duke it out in the Smoking Sea
I think that Cleganebow can still happen and make sense. If you frame killing undead Clegane as an act of mercy and love from Sandor towards his brother who even in death deserves neither
Sandor Clegane struck me as the type of man who grew up enjoying the stories of heroic knights defeating evil and protecting the good people. But then he sees his brother, an incredibly evil and cruel man do unspeakable things, and yet he is a knight.
But, I think, there's a part of Sandor who still believes in the stories, and wants to believe that good men do exist and that good will prevail.
I wouldn't go so far as to say that Sandor Clegane is a "good" man. But, he's far from evil. And I like to think, that he'll be given his chance to protect the good people and make peace with his inner demons.
So ya the Hound just retiring is very nice, I guess the show had it where he couldn't escape it and was kind of just looking for a good way to die, and how they did it in the show I think was good(ish). It was at least the best way they could end it is the Hound taking them both out by falling into Fire is the only way I could have seen him standing a chance they made Gregor nearly unkillable in the traditional combat sense.
But for the books aiming for Squidbowl works a lot better same amount of tension & rise without needing to end a characters ending you could say. Both are being touched by magic in a way so having these 2 essentially bringing back an ancient style of warfare that will be on the rise from there on is great.
I'm with you on Clegane bowl, not so much on Squid bowl. I don't think Sandor will ever have a showdown with Gregor. GRRM it's not in the habit of giving his characters what they want. Which is why I also doubt Victorian will ever get his showdown with Euron. Euron will probably be taken down by Jon or Daeny, or maybe Bran & Summer. And it won't be for vengeance, it will be for the good of the realm.
If Cleganebowl happens, and it lives up to the hype, and it's confirmed to be an all-time showdown, I'll be happy. If Sandor's ultimate fate is left ambiguous, I will also be happy. But I don't want a watered-down Cleganebowl. (I'm not invested in Squidbowl. I just do not care about either character.)
All they had to do. ALL THEY HAD TO DO. Was have the hound make his sword burst into flames during the fight, something he picked up while with the brotherhood and wasn't shared with the audience. It would have been one of the only things that could kill the mountain, and would have shown full character growth for the hound. He overcomes his fear and uses it to destroy the one that created it in him.
It's brain dead obvious to me, and it would have been so hype. Instead we got this.
I still think they couldve fixed it by not having it, but great video nonetheless. Alt shift x inspired alot of great channels
Victarion takes Euron out, Qarl takes Asha out to dinner.
I really hope they make euron into a major player in the game of thrones he one of the most interesting characters
You say that the elder brother says "Sandor Clegane is dead." I'd have to reread but I think the elder brother specifically says "the hound is dead." That being said, I REALLY hope Sandor is allowed to remain retired from violence and we DON'T get Clegane Bowl