Baldur's Gate 3 Theory: A Tale Of Gargauth And Gortash

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  • เผยแพร่เมื่อ 18 ธ.ค. 2024

ความคิดเห็น • 61

  • @rickc-arelsii6276
    @rickc-arelsii6276 ปีที่แล้ว +41

    A plot within a plot within a plot. I love it. It's like a Vampire the Masquerade chronicle and I'm here for it.

  • @apres-lachute8718
    @apres-lachute8718 ปีที่แล้ว +34

    I like the theory but that gauntlet seems to be more a thing that would be associated with Bane; Gortash is a tyrant after all but those devil skulls are so compelling that they support your theory....hard to decide. Great video!

    • @Ashbrash1998
      @Ashbrash1998 ปีที่แล้ว

      I believe so too, the chosen seem to take after each if the dead three respectfully. But I could see an alliance between the 3 and gargauth as well.

    • @RyanofAndor
      @RyanofAndor ปีที่แล้ว

      That's my take. The mechanical arm screams living breathing Bane symbolism, even if he doesn't worship him.

    • @RyanofAndor
      @RyanofAndor ปีที่แล้ว

      That's my take. The mechanical arm screams living breathing Bane symbolism, even if he doesn't worship him.

    • @jarrodbright5231
      @jarrodbright5231 ปีที่แล้ว +1

      @@RyanofAndor An actual mechanical arm would scream "Gond" rather than "Bane" to me. Bane's symbol is specifically a black gauntlet and the items he gives his favoured followers (such as Fzoul Chembryl) often include a powerfully enchanted black gauntlet... well at least that was the case back before the Time of Troubles; there is always room for retconning after 30+ years of real-world time and 140+ years of fantasy-world time.

    • @RyanofAndor
      @RyanofAndor ปีที่แล้ว

      @@jarrodbright5231 Fair point. I have a suspicion that the glitter might come off after a player confrontation revealing the arm to be iron. Still expecting the third antagonist to be an assassin of some sort. Possibly a new dead three.

  • @Karolestube
    @Karolestube 9 หลายเดือนก่อน +5

    Damn, I liked your theory much more than what we got in game 🥲 he clearly was supposed to be an artificer and clearly had his story cut short. Huge lost opportunity to leverage Raphael’s links (even a deal with Gargauth to scape hell), Bhaal’s chosen partnership and leave him in the upper city with Cazador and Raphael’s house of hope.

    • @WyllBG3
      @WyllBG3 หลายเดือนก่อน +1

      This. For me he is the ultimate example of a Artificer villain.

  • @TheSamuraijim87
    @TheSamuraijim87 ปีที่แล้ว +4

    I've got a special spot in my heart for the diabolical demigod Gargauth - I once played in a campaign where he was manipulating our manipulators while attempting to manipulate us into confronting other manipulators. He and the Yuan-Ti we were fighting were plotting on so many layers that it got somewhat hard to track. I was, at the time, playing a drow wizard, who found it all quite delightful.
    While I think it is more thematically appropriate to have Bane involved with the Absolute, I would love to see Gargauth and his sinister Knights of the Shield come into play.

  • @_.annica._
    @_.annica._ ปีที่แล้ว +3

    Me: OOOOO video on my beloved Enver Gortash!! //Clicks
    Video: //Lost Elf plays in the background
    Me: I AM BACK IN THE FUCKING BUILDING

  • @lostzephyr2191
    @lostzephyr2191 ปีที่แล้ว +11

    Gortash looks like he's shaping up to be an interesting antagonist.

  • @bluebloodtimelord
    @bluebloodtimelord 4 หลายเดือนก่อน +1

    HHAHHAHA I haven’t even listened to this yet but as someone with Gargauth featured pertinently in my dnd campaign I’m already cackling
    The arch devil who became a demigod after getting his ass kicked out of hell, and is now whoops trapped in a SHIELD

  • @Kellbellgurl
    @Kellbellgurl ปีที่แล้ว +5

    Since I am not well versed in the D&D lore and history (the charge in and play clueless type of D&D player) I am going to offer insight based on the game/character development. The Larian studio staff has went into depth in one of their main goals was to have indepth choice and consequences. They even said that your choices could impact many outcomes some being the possible allies to have later. And based what I have tested in game you can lose allies in your party more than just making them hate your, or love you. You can push using the parasite power, or even be evil without using it. Or, you can murder everyone. You can help as many people you can and you can avoid killing as many people too, although that made lead to you having to fight them later. Then there is the option of doing the side quests too. This is where I wonder if having those soul coins might be a related boon if you possibly ally with Gortash later. But, there is also maybe possibilities you can use them to buy your way out of a bind, or make a pact with a devil. Now I also couldn't help but key into the dialogue in the trailer. Without knowing the actual chronicle order of the actual dialogue in game I can't narrow down motives. So far I can't help but think Kethric Thorn being the character in trying to become a god himself to defy "helplessness" for not having control over his own life. Him experiencing a paradigm shift. I think if he is a boss mid-game we might find out he was being used by other more devious characters in the game. Then if I were creating a game like this I would have a very different character to choose to ally with later. So for Gortash I can't help but think of him as the anti-hero or the intelligent secretly-evil-power- hungry bastard. In one dialogue scene of him talking to the pov character he seems to be very foward in asking them to ally with him. Part of me hopes that he has this crazy plan out of spite and is somehow more well intentioned because it would make for a great story. I thought the tower in the Underdark was very cool so I hope there is more to it in other locations of the game. Lastly is anyone else having a hard time trying to picture what the end of the game might look like with ALL the details? I guess I'm going to have to join the Discord and I will be sure tell a friend because he is like an almanac for D&D and has his own theories. I like listening to you talk so don't stop making this kind of content please :3

  • @johnyoungerman1857
    @johnyoungerman1857 ปีที่แล้ว +5

    Hmm...Pretty solid theory. This is the 5th time we are presented with direct connection to the Hells. The main Trailer, Raphael(Who we do not know who he works for), The Tiefling we talk to outside of the trading post(Cannot remember her name atm) who faught for Zariel's Army and has unfinished bissiness in Baulders Gate, The Soul coins of course and now Gortash(Raised by a Devil). Something Evil is brewing:)) Quick thought.... What if the Constructs are actually from the Clockwork Plane of Existance? I am a 3.5 guy so not sure if it is even present in 5e. Thx for the video as always. Peace

    • @jarrodbright5231
      @jarrodbright5231 ปีที่แล้ว +2

      Gond's plane is called Wonderhome in 5e and it's now in the Outlands rather than on Mechanus. The souls of his followers become Rilmani. Wonderhome contains lots of golems and mephits but no mention of giant humanoid automatons.
      Now the novel Prince of Lies does mention Gond building automatons like that powered by souls of the Faithless in the employ of Cyric, but that's a different matter (and I rather doubt that's what the Steel Watchers are).

  • @Ashbrash1998
    @Ashbrash1998 ปีที่แล้ว +5

    To say he's an artificer assumes that the steel watchers are made of metal and gears. It makes more sense considering his background that he's a mage and the xonstructs are imbued with infernal magic, perhaps using souls?
    Also shield of the hidden lord appears in the prequel Descent into Avernus, perhaps Gortash has the shield in his posession? So when they say he was "raised" by a devil, it means he was raised to be a lord by Boons given by Gargauth? That would make him a warlock

  • @dubuissonldv9610
    @dubuissonldv9610 ปีที่แล้ว +3

    Let's not forget that BG3 is a sequel to Descent into Avernus. I think Gortash is a member of the Guild, who of course took advantage of the vacuum of power to take over the council of 4. Also, the Church of Gond is pretty influencial in the city (Hall of Wonders etc). That has to be where the constructs come from.

    • @mlj3347
      @mlj3347 7 หลายเดือนก่อน

      This is so interesting reading these theories in hindsight. Especially the Gondian bit you pointed out

  • @ScytheNoire
    @ScytheNoire ปีที่แล้ว +6

    Gortash is an Avatar of Bane, or at least he appears in the vision of the three, along with Orin and Thorm, who are Avatars of Bhaal and Myrkul, respectively.
    If he isn't an Avatar of Bane, does that mean that Bhaal and Myrkul have ditched or turned on Bane? Found a new partner?
    Gortash, Thorm, and Orin are most definitely linked together, and two of their alignments are very obvious, so it's just Gortash who doesn't perfectly fit with Bane, even though that's who it should be.

  • @stars-and-clouds
    @stars-and-clouds ปีที่แล้ว +1

    I thought I was hallucinating when Lost Elf started playing in the background

  • @raisinbranmunch7552
    @raisinbranmunch7552 ปีที่แล้ว

    I think you're exactly right-- but I am eager to confirm!

  • @ddisaster626
    @ddisaster626 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    He could be a multiclass. We know they're bringing multiclassing into the game and multiclassing could make for incredibly interesting npc backgrounds.... like a warlock that escaped and took a couple levels of artificery, but still keeping the trappings of his original class.

  • @bradveach4832
    @bradveach4832 ปีที่แล้ว

    Well researched. Interested to see how it plays out

  • @WhitneyAllisonGG
    @WhitneyAllisonGG ปีที่แล้ว +1

    I think Gorlash to the regular citizens of Baldur Gate is the class of the Artificer but his true class will be ex Warlock and multi class. It's great theory.

  • @lostzephyr2191
    @lostzephyr2191 ปีที่แล้ว +5

    Would be very cool if it did in fact turn out to be the case that Gargauth is going to be involved in BG3.

    • @Ashbrash1998
      @Ashbrash1998 ปีที่แล้ว +1

      The shield he's in does reappear in the prequel adventure to the game "descent into avernus"

  • @unishamaani
    @unishamaani ปีที่แล้ว +3

    This is quite compelling, but I wholeheartedly believe that Larian will just put one worshipper for each god of the dead three as the three "Villains"

    • @Sabamonster
      @Sabamonster ปีที่แล้ว

      I very, very much doubt it will be that simple. None of the BG's are simplified or distilled to that degree.

    • @unishamaani
      @unishamaani ปีที่แล้ว

      @@Sabamonster of course they aren't. I think the variety we'll see is in the storylines of the worshippers and their past. Maybe all of this devil association is true, but then he has converted into Banes clergy

  • @noctus9668
    @noctus9668 ปีที่แล้ว

    Awesome channel. Keep it up!

  • @lostsoulman
    @lostsoulman ปีที่แล้ว +1

    Apparently he made the steel watchers. Larian said they would reveal the absolute 3 chosen, ketheric, gor and a women. Not sure if he would betray the absolute. Maybe he was actually working for gorgath but pretended to work with the absolute.

  • @yasinakbulut9115
    @yasinakbulut9115 ปีที่แล้ว

    Your channel is a hidden gem, I hope you get more attention

  • @scottlavale1502
    @scottlavale1502 ปีที่แล้ว +7

    Do you know what baffles me the most. Since BG1 and the doppleganger heist.... none of the baldurs gates heads of states thought of implementing , Thought detections, reveal or detect alignment , true sight or any of those spells before appointing anyone to the city. I strongly believe this is where Dungeons and dragons fail, its totally unrealistic for lets say mages that have 18 + intelligence to be running the city and not have these methods for unmasking villains.
    What do you think?

    • @TheBouregard
      @TheBouregard ปีที่แล้ว +1

      Almost all of those can be faked and would be very expensive to maintain because spells aren't free. To use those abilities with any kind of reliability you would need to have highly specialised professionals spent their days checking peasants and servants instead of doing actually useful things. Thanks to illusions, mindcontrol and sheer misdirection you can also use good people for bad deeds. There is also the problem that most alignments aren't an issue. You could be chaotic evil but only break small rules and look out for yourself. Not everyone has the drive and ability with this allignment to become the next high priest of Bhaal.

    • @mqw.4377
      @mqw.4377 ปีที่แล้ว

      ​@@TheBouregard"expensive to maintain" my brother in christ Baldur's gate is the only safe port south of Daggerford, with some of the richest nobles in the sword coast, I'm sure the city could afford a vault full of magic scrolls or really powerful magic items for this purpose if they wanted to

    • @lexyinspace
      @lexyinspace 10 หลายเดือนก่อน +1

      I like this idea for world building! It is still possible to have villains in high places though, because the mechanics of DND always provide a possibility of failure. It's one of the things that makes the game (seemingly, since I don't play) so chaotic. Even if they have a police force of magic cops screening all political candidates, if the BBEG just succeeds a saving throw against Officer Gerry's Scroll of Detect Thoughts everyone will just go along their way perfectly content in Count Vladimir Balthazar Esq. III's completely wholesome intentions in the city. With the specific example Gortash it makes total sense to me that he might be one of these cases. As a chosen of a god (the god of shitty politics no less) he likely has some degree of divine favour that might help him be successful in underhanded diplomacy. Of course none of this is stated in game, but it would be a fun plotline to pursue in an actual DND game.

    • @scottlavale1502
      @scottlavale1502 10 หลายเดือนก่อน

      @@lexyinspace yup D&D in essence is about 1 thing being able to counter another .... not 1 thing having absolute power over all other things. But What i was referring too is, the representation of stats and how its shows up in the world. If you have 20 intelligence , you will create magical objects that can do wonderous things. So lets say your Count Eltan and you have millions of gold pieces and you almost got killed 10 times by greater dopplegangers. I think you will spend tons of money on contraptions that will block shapeshifters or discover them. What D&D lacks is the principle of technologies. what i mean by this is that ... once 1 thing shows up and a solution for it pops up, everyone try's to adopt it and it becomes common. If half of baldurs gates is infiltrated by dopplegangers, its in the city interest to implement rules. We have to see the D&D world for the first time as a living breathing entity not just a dumb campaign setting for a game or table top adventure.
      that's like the Vecna campaign, it makes no sense. A lich that has lived for thousands of yours with the power and intelligence of vecna would be unkillable. It would have traps and contingency's to no end ... if an anti magic field is created he teleports to another dimension, if this or that happens a spell triggers, he would have hundreds of magical items that counter just about everything but gods. But like you said, that's where D&D shines .... the gods can mix in ....and have a certain item stolen or disappear so that the plot can work...there's always these things and that makes D&D magical. But, IMHO ... you cant have super intelligent villains and turn them into idiots or genius good guys and dumb them down to a point its not logical to make a plot work.To kids having fun playing table top sure ....everything is possible .. but on a world that exist on its own.... nothing would hold up if you had elminster 1 day casting level 10 spells and another casting cantrips to defeat a draco lich. There has to be some standard of logic. That is what i find lacking in D&D and in some of the games. There so much freedom to the writers who created those realms that they fell in love with the world they created and often decide what this god did ...versus what this hero felt and acted and in the end it doesn't always make sens. There are some common questions that any creator of the history of torril has to ask themselves before adding or maintaining to the lore. And those questions have to be 99% of the time always in accordance with the rest. That is my issue. You can't have Ketheric torm in bg3 be a super boss that's lived hundreds of years and only have +1 gear on. IF I'm a new adventurer and I'm level 8 and i have 10x the items he has and I've only lived the adventure life a few months. Kinda like all the treasures in the monster manual. In bg1 you end the game with over 50 000 gold... but certain dragons that are hundreds of years old only have 20 000$... You don't create the game for balance you created based on what is possible and should be and THENNNNN you pick the right monsters , city's conditions to make the party go on its adventure. You don't do like in BG3 create a Great wyrm bronze dragon Draco lich and nerf the monsters so much that's its like fighting a whelp rather then a dragon that should of been 5times the size of the one in the game. Anyone's that played the arcade version of D&D game saw the red dragon and how huge he was... When you change the reality of something in order to accommodate your plot... that's when i believe you fail giving proper respect to the D&D world.

  • @Suzanne_sf
    @Suzanne_sf ปีที่แล้ว

    Thank you for the video S & S! The game is going to be like 100 hours long!

  • @ELARKANEGRAGAMING
    @ELARKANEGRAGAMING ปีที่แล้ว +6

    Gargauth has political influence for sure! 😈

  • @spielmann1647
    @spielmann1647 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    Thoughts on the new avowed trailer ?

    • @spellandshield
      @spellandshield  ปีที่แล้ว +1

      I will be releasing a full breakdown video of the trailer in a few hours! After that will be talking about everything I have discovered about the game since the trailer!

  • @colinsmith1071
    @colinsmith1071 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    So whatcha think after you spent all this time over thinking it and it ended up being the most logical choice, Bane as his deity and they weren't lying about his class. ;)

  • @davefawcett4894
    @davefawcett4894 ปีที่แล้ว

    Nice, thank you

  • @Jarleale
    @Jarleale ปีที่แล้ว

    Probably a stretch, but Gortash could be a clockwork soul sorcerer.

  • @deathbycognitivedissonance5036
    @deathbycognitivedissonance5036 ปีที่แล้ว +4

    I really hope your theory is correct.

  • @IDontKnowYouWhoAreYou
    @IDontKnowYouWhoAreYou ปีที่แล้ว +1

    lol nice dragon age inqusition music :P i have over 600 hours on it O_O

  • @skrotosd
    @skrotosd 10 หลายเดือนก่อน

    Honestly I don’t get the fascination with Gortash, i find him irritating and I just throw him down a cliff by grabbing him and teleporting out

  • @jamricsloe
    @jamricsloe ปีที่แล้ว

    Perhaps he’s a warlock of Gargauth.

  • @justWorrik
    @justWorrik ปีที่แล้ว

    this is Mable a ridiculous far-fetched idea but maybe he is a clockwork sorcerer. he does look like a sorcerer. and bane even evil is more law-focused than most evil gods and demi-gods. since is resides in the plane of Acheron. a first and foremost law-aligned plane. it can be that he has the blood of the plane itself ore, Bane. I know it's a far-fetched idea but its possible.

  • @nyanko2077
    @nyanko2077 ปีที่แล้ว +2

    The only problem is Gargauth is not a deity. He's never referred as such in Descent into Avernus. He's an archdevil just like Zariel and Bel who was emprisoned in an angelic shield. The only deity in the hells is Asmodeus, cause he bargained his way up into godhood.

    • @spellandshield
      @spellandshield  ปีที่แล้ว +2

      Gargauth is a demi-god and he has been around long before DIA was released. He can grant spells and has multiple temples, including one underneath Baldur's Gate. He became a deity after being exiled.

  • @MizuMing
    @MizuMing ปีที่แล้ว

    Pardon Mr. Spell&Shield, another Baldur's Gate 3 video channel is trying to get into contact with you in order to do a potential collaboration, but they've realized that there is no email with which to send you a message of invitation or Twitter account that we know of to send you a message. Would it be possible to get some information to them? Would you like to know which account it is so you might reach out to them if you were interested instead?

    • @spellandshield
      @spellandshield  ปีที่แล้ว

      They can join my discord server.

    • @MizuMing
      @MizuMing ปีที่แล้ว

      @@spellandshield Thank you very much!

  • @blackfistxu7953
    @blackfistxu7953 ปีที่แล้ว

    👍🏾👍🏾🔥🔥🔥🔥🔥🔥🔥🔥

  • @oriolbaulenas7130
    @oriolbaulenas7130 ปีที่แล้ว

    👍