Great topic. I am and have always been an atheist, but, always believed that there was a man, Jesus, that was a revolutionist. I don't denounce his existence and actually believe what he professed. I don't believe that he was God. Reza, speaks exactly to the conversation I just had with my husband last night. Can't believe I came across this video this evening.
Sailor Girl I am reformed Muslim.I believe in a Theology that states that God is outside time and space and that the universe is eteral and is a reflection of God emerged that way and that evolution guided " creation" by the infinite mysterious divine providence . The miracles attributed to the prophets are a symbolic divine language that prove ( the power of God) ie the laws of nature " have never been broken". Christianity sadly can not be redeemed ( theologically speaking) as it tries to " claim" that God did actually enter history and the ( miracles are real) witnessing the divine power of ( Incarnated God) Paul the apostle says in one of his letters Sth to the effect that : ( without the resurrection , your faith ie christians, is futile). Sadly the whole christian faith is based on a miracle that can be easily disproven as superstition. What do you think?
+Ali Ahmed Since you asked for comments, I will. Reza has been on TV all over the place. He is a spokesman in the leftist's subtle attempt to destroy to destroy Christianity.PS: He seems like a nice guy. But, there are thousands of people more knowledgeable than he. How did become media's darling?
Ali Ahmed, I’ve come to agree with your theology of a larger god than any religion. The only difference in our view on this is that I think God is INSIDE time and space, not outside. That is to say that god IS time and space, and is the oneness of nature and the universe. Are you familiar with the 17th century Jewish theologian and philosopher named Baruch Spinoza? I think you would like his understanding of god in this way. Albert Einstein once said, “I believe in Spinoza’s God, not in a god who personally intervenes in the affairs of earth.”
Sailor Girl you'll find absolutely zero evidence for Jesus the Revolutionary in the earliest of all christian writing, the 7 authentic letters of Paul, c.55CE. He provides us with 20 000 + words about Jesus. Nothing in there about Revolutionary activity, nothing about him being a historical person for that matter. If you want a deep dive on the historicity of Jesus: On the historicity of Jesus ( why we have reason to doubt) by Dr.Richard Carrier, PhD.
Im in the same boat as you. Im agnostic but I consider Jesus to be a marvelous role model and I certainly enjoy religious stories. I think @Geoffry Chaucer makes a good point that he didnt actually partake in any revolutionary activity so to speak. He was mostly condemned because of his claim to be the Messiah and the Son of God. I will look into Carriers work but it seems like he was submitted to Pilate more because he was a plain rabble-rouser. I can see him being a revolutionary insofar that he was an ideologue but I think he fits more into the category of a dissenting rabbi. He also avoided messing with Roman law and focused on Gods law.
The question posed was such that Reza agrees that the alleged posture that the movement Jesus founded lasted 2000 years. It did not. In fact it did not last 100 years. The Way sect founded by Jesus is not anything like the Xtianity of today. In fact, the two are opposites.
Im confused: on the one hand the gospels wrre not alwaus congruent with the facts/ truth-eg Pontius Pilates reluctance to convict Jesus, on the other han he is citing stories from the gospel as though they are a historical narration of Jesus activities. Which is it- can the gospeps be relief upon as accurate records of what was said and done or not?
When the fullness of time had come, God sent forth his Son, born of woman, born under the law. He emptied himself, by taking the form of a servant, being born in the likeness of men. He had to be made like his brothers in every way, that he might become a merciful and faithful high priest in service to God, in order to make atonement for the sins of the people. (Galatians 4:4, Philippians 2:7, Hebrews 2:17)
You should not look at it fleshly ,but astro Theoligical . JESE IS the SUN not the son he rules the 12 Apostles ( the zodiac houses. We are now in the house off the water carrier . We left the Fish cults . )
The story that the Jews insisted that the blood be upon them and their descendents was created by the Roman Catholic Church at the first council at Nicea.
Yeah thats make sense.. early gospel 70 AD is Gospel 1.0 by Titus the emperor after destroy jerusallem. Gospel 2.0 at nicea by Constantine emperor to perfection the need of BIBLE to broader audience in all roman empire coz now bible became legal religion.
This is rich, a rich man who does not believe Christ is God, that Christ even existed and the two greatest teachings of Christ, give up all wealth and deadly force, he disowns as fiction. And yet, he is going to teach us the truth about Christ?
John Ellis, maybe you missed something. Reza believes that Jesus existed in a very real and physical way, and that his teachings were revolutionary. I’m also curious what evidence you have that Jesus’s “two greatest teachings were ‘giving up wealth and violence.’” Would that be your personal interpretation by any chance, and why would you say these were more important than what Jesus himself called his 2 greatest commandments - “love God, and love your neighbor as yourself.”?
This man wants to destroy the faith of Christians. He believed in Jesus's existence and HIS goodness and then turned to someone else ( Hazrat Mohammad) who seems to be more credential to him. This is completely fine. I wish my christian brothers and sisters will never be influenced by his speech and loose faith because we know we experience him in our heart in day to day life and HE is our LORD.
Huh? Wtf are you talking about? Are you muslim? And if you are, do you think the bible does a good job of conveying what Jesus preached? Christianity today has nothing to do with Jesus. It’s all made up by the Romans.
for a family that was so prominent and important like Abraham's family all the way to Jesus. Theres not just no trace of Jesus himself as evidence theres no evidence the ENTIRE FAMILY line exists from Abraham all the way to Jesus lol. Theres an awful lack of evidence of ANY of the family's existence and i think it would be more interesting to actually know what was going on in that time period itself rather than anything in the bible.
How much evidence is there of any family genealogical lines from 1st century Palenstine? They were poor farmers & day laborers, how much evidence would you suppose to survive 2,000 years from a family that literally didn't own anything?
I find Reza Aslan and Bart Ehrman agree on several aspects of the historic Jesus. For ex. Jesus made the Law more extreme- Not just, do not commit adultery, don't even think about doing it. On how the gospels blame the Jews for Jesus' death when in actuality it was Pilate himself and the Romans. Ehrman told a funny story that telling a 1st century Jew that Jesus was the Messiah would be like him telling you he thought David Koresh of the Branch Davidians was the true messiah. I find their views on Paul and James similar as well. Even though Ehrman called Aslan more of a creative writer than a scholar, I doubt if Ehrman has read much of Aslan's work if any. I think Ehrman would be surprised.
Ive not heard Ehrman comment on Aslan, but from this presentation Aslan does not quite fit that mold of a formal scholar. In other words he isnt an academican, i.e., hasnt gone through semenary, or been formally and professionally trained in various views and contrasting debates of religion. (Ehrman and associates of Westar Institute for example.) Aslan seems simply based more on his own research for his book. One arguement Ehrman makes is that Jesus never claimed to be god or messiah; that this was instead a later construct of christian followers and bible authors, after Jesus death. Aslan seems to be on the other side of this in this presentation.
@@twodogs91 The last two sentences are wrong. Aslan has clearly said in other videos that Jesus most pro never claimed to be the Messiah. And about his Godhood, Aslan never spends time arguing for or against it..but simply focuses on the humanity of Jesus because for him that is the point.
Some say that there was no Jesus from Nazareth. Researchers from the Britann pointing that there was no Nazareth or City if Jerusalem at that time at all. Seems to be that some serrious scientist out there have a very different story about the whole thing and that Jesus was not a Jew at all. Wish some of them manage to get out in media and explain everything to the wide audience. It would be funny to see what will people say! But they do not get place and time to talk jokes and funny stores selling that like a science! Said story!
Your point about Nazareth is wrong. The town existed in 70CE, we have lists of Pharisees who moved there after the Roman war. Whether it existed in 1CE is a moot point. No christian writer associates Jesus with Nazareth until "Mark" writes in c.80CE. Even then it's just because he didn't know what nazorean meant. He thought it meant a resident of Nazareth but in fact it meant something like branch. Paul and other writers earlier than "Mark" make no connection with Jesus and Nazareth. If Jesus existed, and I don't think he did, he certainly didn't come from Nazareth.
blind faith. I cant imagine a carpenter being that poor. If you have skills like carpentry, you have enough skills in any era to make some kind of tradeable living. Hes not just a poor labourer if hes a carpenter. He has a trade. Also if hes a carpenter hes not completely uneducated. You need a form of math understanding, literacy. He obviously had some education to be able to speak and articulate his rhetoric properly. Romans cared abotu Christian uprisings , according to Nero Christians caused the great fire of 64AD. If thats TRUE, then Nero had cause to be concerned about Christian rioters and anarchists in that time period.
As an historian and etc., this vid. is naive and full of assertion - it would be the fake 'identity politics' of this age... all is just assertion... I was hoping to find something new here, but no... a shame.
The Bible is an Astrothologi book . Not real people . But about the Zodiak also called the KINGDOM. The 7 called planets are but only stars . Look at a good clock like the tower off LONDEN it's based on the houses off the Mazzerot Job 38. People are far from the narrow WAY They all walk the broad way . Evil men want to conteole over every life being . I know who they are but can't mention it here . People better wake up or suffer . What a crime againt humanity . THEY see us as MONSTERS .. But they are .
i question the entire bloodline from Abraham (that mentally ill human being, if Abraham was a real person and not just a myth) all the way to Jesus. They reckon mental illness is heredity. Theres literally no evidence any of these people existed. Christianity existed through certain manuscripts from Romans and a couple of witnesses possibly, but no one has evidence of Jesus or ANY of the Abraham blood line. Nero blamed the Christian's for the great fire in Rome in 64AD. Nero had real issues with Christian anarchy. So its possible many Romans hated Christians as they were spreading throughout Rome and causing anarchy.
I think that the little evidence out there for a historical Jesus could indeed support a Mythological figure or a Zealot messianic revolutionary. If you assume either possibility, given the poor historical record, you will run into problems defending honestly your position. Only a time machine could solve this puzzle. The Jesus of the Gospels is obviously false, fictional and outrageously legendary a la King Arthur. For any Christian out there that believes the Gospel's narrative, I would suggest you learn about the Jewish War 66 AD-70 AD that resulted into the destruction of the Temple. Then,read the Gospel of Mark written a couple of years later after this destruction. Then, ask yourself....how is this calamity to the Jews addressed in the Gospel?? In Mark 8, Jesus predicts the destruction of the Temple. Easy for Jesus since the writer of this Gospel had just witnessed this destruction. With this knowledge, read the Gospels and imagine you are a Jew that got your center of Faith, Justice and Money destroyed forever. Are these Gospels saying... we just got our asses kicked by the Romans because God allowed it. God is angry at us because of the way we have behaved. This is the way forward not for Christians but for Jews... The fact that the Gospels ignore the greatest event in Jewish history should make you skeptical about its historical veracity. It's not an accident.
Just because you don't believe in the Resurrection does not qualify it as an historical event. It is an historical event based on numerous witnesses (over 500 at one time), the Gospel accounts, and the historical shift of the Jewish Sabbath from sunset Friday to Christian Sabbath on Sunday. It was accepted in the first century as historical, to the point of buying off the guards who witnessed it. Nonbelief does not erase the historical record. There are no counter reports in the first century to debunk the claim. It was accepted as an historical event.
@Huntsman1202 I did. Did you hear what I am saying? Your unbelief does not negate the witnesses, it does not negate the change of the Jewish Sabbath to the Christian Sabbath, it does not change what is recorded in history to the existence of Jesus in the First Century in the Gospels and in secular writings. You can choose to believe the evidence or not. It is your choice.
Hmm? - this person is not worth spending my precious time on - not at all educated on religions, lacks wit with no particular worthwhile insights and seems more interested in trying out some kind of high-school stand up comedy shtick. I suggest he leaves this topic to the actual researchers, scholars and academics on this enormous subject. Ta Ta!
Always refreshing to listen to Reza - thanks for posting.
Great topic. I am and have always been an atheist, but, always believed that there was a man, Jesus, that was a revolutionist. I don't denounce his existence and actually believe what he professed. I don't believe that he was God. Reza, speaks exactly to the conversation I just had with my husband last night. Can't believe I came across this video this evening.
Sailor Girl
I am reformed Muslim.I believe in a Theology that states that God is outside time and space and that the universe is eteral and is a reflection of God emerged that way and that evolution guided
" creation" by the infinite mysterious divine providence . The miracles attributed to the prophets are a symbolic divine language that prove ( the power of God) ie the laws of nature " have never been broken".
Christianity sadly can not be redeemed ( theologically speaking) as it tries to " claim" that God did actually enter history
and the ( miracles are real) witnessing the divine power of ( Incarnated God)
Paul the apostle says in one of his letters
Sth to the effect that :
( without the resurrection , your faith ie christians, is futile).
Sadly the whole christian faith is based on a miracle that can be easily disproven as superstition.
What do you think?
+Ali Ahmed Since you asked for comments, I will. Reza has been on TV all over the place. He is a spokesman in the leftist's subtle attempt to destroy to destroy Christianity.PS: He seems like a nice guy. But, there are thousands of people more knowledgeable than he. How did become media's darling?
Ali Ahmed, I’ve come to agree with your theology of a larger god than any religion. The only difference in our view on this is that I think God is INSIDE time and space, not outside. That is to say that god IS time and space, and is the oneness of nature and the universe. Are you familiar with the 17th century Jewish theologian and philosopher named Baruch Spinoza? I think you would like his understanding of god in this way. Albert Einstein once said, “I believe in Spinoza’s God, not in a god who personally intervenes in the affairs of earth.”
Sailor Girl you'll find absolutely zero evidence for Jesus the Revolutionary in the earliest of all christian writing, the 7 authentic letters of Paul, c.55CE. He provides us with 20 000 + words about Jesus. Nothing in there about Revolutionary activity, nothing about him being a historical person for that matter. If you want a deep dive on the historicity of Jesus:
On the historicity of Jesus ( why we have reason to doubt) by Dr.Richard Carrier, PhD.
Im in the same boat as you. Im agnostic but I consider Jesus to be a marvelous role model and I certainly enjoy religious stories. I think @Geoffry Chaucer makes a good point that he didnt actually partake in any revolutionary activity so to speak. He was mostly condemned because of his claim to be the Messiah and the Son of God. I will look into Carriers work but it seems like he was submitted to Pilate more because he was a plain rabble-rouser. I can see him being a revolutionary insofar that he was an ideologue but I think he fits more into the category of a dissenting rabbi. He also avoided messing with Roman law and focused on Gods law.
I am very dubious about his scholarship. Can anyone quote me a NT verse where Jesus is made to say, " I am the Messiah".
Im looking for Starcraft Protoss Zealot... why im here???
Because you're a moron?
The question posed was such that Reza agrees that the alleged posture that the movement Jesus founded lasted 2000 years. It did not. In fact it did not last 100 years. The Way sect founded by Jesus is not anything like the Xtianity of today. In fact, the two are opposites.
His points are very valid for educated mind not for all.
Gracias por favor si le es posible en traducción al español para varios países de habla hispana. Bendiciones
Brilliant, brilliant, brilliant!
Im confused: on the one hand the gospels wrre not alwaus congruent with the facts/ truth-eg Pontius Pilates reluctance to convict Jesus, on the other han he is citing stories from the gospel as though they are a historical narration of Jesus activities. Which is it- can the gospeps be relief upon as accurate records of what was said and done or not?
When the fullness of time had come, God sent forth his Son, born of woman, born under the law. He emptied himself, by taking the form of a servant, being born in the likeness of men. He had to be made like his brothers in every way, that he might become a merciful and faithful high priest in service to God, in order to make atonement for the sins of the people. (Galatians 4:4, Philippians 2:7, Hebrews 2:17)
You should not look at it fleshly ,but astro Theoligical . JESE IS the SUN not the son he rules the 12 Apostles ( the zodiac houses. We are now in the house off the water carrier . We left the Fish cults . )
@@peacejen8732 Nonsense! Christianity was based on a fraudulent & creative interpretation of the OT Septuagint not any astro-theological crankery.
Honestly, I want to meet his dad.
Jesus Christ is GOD not just a prophet
A very knowledgable scholar and historian indeed.
The story that the Jews insisted that the blood be upon them and their descendents was created by the Roman Catholic Church at the first council at Nicea.
Yeah thats make sense.. early gospel 70 AD is Gospel 1.0 by Titus the emperor after destroy jerusallem. Gospel 2.0 at nicea by Constantine emperor to perfection the need of BIBLE to broader audience in all roman empire coz now bible became legal religion.
Is it taqiya?
This is rich, a rich man who does not believe Christ is God, that Christ even existed and the two greatest teachings of Christ, give up all wealth and deadly force, he disowns as fiction. And yet, he is going to teach us the truth about Christ?
John Ellis, maybe you missed something. Reza believes that Jesus existed in a very real and physical way, and that his teachings were revolutionary. I’m also curious what evidence you have that Jesus’s “two greatest teachings were ‘giving up wealth and violence.’” Would that be your personal interpretation by any chance, and why would you say these were more important than what Jesus himself called his 2 greatest commandments - “love God, and love your neighbor as yourself.”?
Planet Bonkers , your point is?
This man wants to destroy the faith of Christians. He believed in Jesus's existence and HIS goodness and then turned to someone else ( Hazrat Mohammad) who seems to be more credential to him. This is completely fine. I wish my christian brothers and sisters will never be influenced by his speech and loose faith because we know we experience him in our heart in day to day life and HE is our LORD.
He already differentiate about Yeshua of History and Jesus of faith. He is a historian and backing his research with proof.
Huh? Wtf are you talking about?
Are you muslim?
And if you are, do you think the bible does a good job of conveying what Jesus preached?
Christianity today has nothing to do with Jesus. It’s all made up by the Romans.
I'd be willing to be any amount of money you have an IQ below 70, guaranteed.
for a family that was so prominent and important like Abraham's family all the way to Jesus. Theres not just no trace of Jesus himself as evidence theres no evidence the ENTIRE FAMILY line exists from Abraham all the way to Jesus lol. Theres an awful lack of evidence of ANY of the family's existence and i think it would be more interesting to actually know what was going on in that time period itself rather than anything in the bible.
How much evidence is there of any family genealogical lines from 1st century Palenstine?
They were poor farmers & day laborers, how much evidence would you suppose to survive 2,000 years from a family that literally didn't own anything?
I find Reza Aslan and Bart Ehrman agree on several aspects of the historic Jesus. For ex. Jesus made the Law more extreme- Not just, do not commit adultery, don't even think about doing it. On how the gospels blame the Jews for Jesus' death when in actuality it was Pilate himself and the Romans. Ehrman told a funny story that telling a 1st century Jew that Jesus was the Messiah would be like him telling you he thought David Koresh of the Branch Davidians was the true messiah.
I find their views on Paul and James similar as well. Even though Ehrman called Aslan more of a creative writer than a scholar, I doubt if Ehrman has read much of Aslan's work if any.
I think Ehrman would be surprised.
Ive not heard Ehrman comment on Aslan, but from this presentation Aslan does not quite fit that mold of a formal scholar. In other words he isnt an academican, i.e., hasnt gone through semenary, or been formally and professionally trained in various views and contrasting debates of religion. (Ehrman and associates of Westar Institute for example.) Aslan seems simply based more on his own research for his book.
One arguement Ehrman makes is that Jesus never claimed to be god or messiah; that this was instead a later construct of christian followers and bible authors, after Jesus death. Aslan seems to be on the other side of this in this presentation.
@@twodogs91 The last two sentences are wrong. Aslan has clearly said in other videos that Jesus most pro never claimed to be the Messiah. And about his Godhood, Aslan never spends time arguing for or against it..but simply focuses on the humanity of Jesus because for him that is the point.
That's not a good sign for either man! Jesus the Zealot is a crank theory based on zero evidence.
Some say that there was no Jesus from Nazareth. Researchers from the Britann pointing that there was no Nazareth or City if Jerusalem at that time at all.
Seems to be that some serrious scientist out there have a very different story about the whole thing and that Jesus was not a Jew at all. Wish some of them manage to get out in media and explain everything to the wide audience. It would be funny to see what will people say!
But they do not get place and time to talk jokes and funny stores selling that like a science! Said story!
Your point about Nazareth is wrong. The town existed in 70CE, we have lists of Pharisees who moved there after the Roman war. Whether it existed in 1CE is a moot point. No christian writer associates Jesus with Nazareth until "Mark" writes in c.80CE. Even then it's just because he didn't know what nazorean meant. He thought it meant a resident of Nazareth but in fact it meant something like branch. Paul and other writers earlier than "Mark" make no connection with Jesus and Nazareth. If Jesus existed, and I don't think he did, he certainly didn't come from Nazareth.
It was not the priesthood that Jesus was against. Rather it was the SADDUCEEAN illegitimate priesthood overseen by Herod that he was against.
Yeah. U right. Thats his point . The corrupt herold aristocrat high priest upper class that control the temple of god.
Apparently, you and Reza are saying the same thing. You must read his book and listen his other speeches.
blind faith. I cant imagine a carpenter being that poor. If you have skills like carpentry, you have enough skills in any era to make some kind of tradeable living. Hes not just a poor labourer if hes a carpenter. He has a trade. Also if hes a carpenter hes not completely uneducated. You need a form of math understanding, literacy. He obviously had some education to be able to speak and articulate his rhetoric properly. Romans cared abotu Christian uprisings , according to Nero Christians caused the great fire of 64AD. If thats TRUE, then Nero had cause to be concerned about Christian rioters and anarchists in that time period.
As an historian and etc., this vid. is naive and full of assertion - it would be the fake 'identity politics' of this age... all is just assertion... I was hoping to find something new here, but no... a shame.
lmao read the book then dude
The Bible is an Astrothologi book . Not real people . But about the Zodiak also called the KINGDOM. The 7 called planets are but only stars . Look at a good clock like the tower off LONDEN it's based on the houses off the Mazzerot Job 38. People are far from the narrow WAY They all walk the broad way . Evil men want to conteole over every life being . I know who they are but can't mention it here . People better wake up or suffer . What a crime againt humanity . THEY see us as MONSTERS .. But they are .
i question the entire bloodline from Abraham (that mentally ill human being, if Abraham was a real person and not just a myth) all the way to Jesus. They reckon mental illness is heredity. Theres literally no evidence any of these people existed. Christianity existed through certain manuscripts from Romans and a couple of witnesses possibly, but no one has evidence of Jesus or ANY of the Abraham blood line. Nero blamed the Christian's for the great fire in Rome in 64AD. Nero had real issues with Christian anarchy. So its possible many Romans hated Christians as they were spreading throughout Rome and causing anarchy.
I think that the little evidence out there for a historical Jesus could indeed support a Mythological figure or a Zealot messianic revolutionary. If you assume either possibility, given the poor historical record, you will run into problems defending honestly your position. Only a time machine could solve this puzzle. The Jesus of the Gospels is obviously false, fictional and outrageously legendary a la King Arthur. For any Christian out there that believes the Gospel's narrative, I would suggest you learn about the Jewish War 66 AD-70 AD that resulted into the destruction of the Temple. Then,read the Gospel of Mark written a couple of years later after this destruction. Then, ask yourself....how is this calamity to the Jews addressed in the Gospel?? In Mark 8, Jesus predicts the destruction of the Temple. Easy for Jesus since the writer of this Gospel had just witnessed this destruction. With this knowledge, read the Gospels and imagine you are a Jew that got your center of Faith, Justice and Money destroyed forever. Are these Gospels saying... we just got our asses kicked by the Romans because God allowed it. God is angry at us because of the way we have behaved. This is the way forward not for Christians but for Jews... The fact that the Gospels ignore the greatest event in Jewish history should make you skeptical about its historical veracity. It's not an accident.
Just because you don't believe in the Resurrection does not qualify it as an historical event. It is an historical event based on numerous witnesses (over 500 at one time), the Gospel accounts, and the historical shift of the Jewish Sabbath from sunset Friday to Christian Sabbath on Sunday. It was accepted in the first century as historical, to the point of buying off the guards who witnessed it. Nonbelief does not erase the historical record. There are no counter reports in the first century to debunk the claim. It was accepted as an historical event.
@Huntsman1202 I did. Did you hear what I am saying? Your unbelief does not negate the witnesses, it does not negate the change of the Jewish Sabbath to the Christian Sabbath, it does not change what is recorded in history to the existence of Jesus in the First Century in the Gospels and in secular writings. You can choose to believe the evidence or not. It is your choice.
Hmm? - this person is not worth spending my precious time on - not at all educated on religions, lacks wit with no particular worthwhile insights and seems more interested in trying out some kind of high-school stand up comedy shtick. I suggest he leaves this topic to the actual researchers, scholars and academics on this enormous subject.
Ta Ta!
I bought he book and I don’t think is worth it.
Total rubbish