You can open the front panel of the Systemair ventilation unit and check if the heat recovery unit's rotor is spinning. This rotor spins when the heat recovery is active. In any case, you will need to open the cover once or twice a year to replace the air duct filters (especially after the pollen season).
Hi Bjorn! You have a very simple display called Systemair SAVE LIGHT. Replace it with one called Villavent SAVE TOUCH HMI. Then you get access to all desired functions 👍
Use the cooktop exhaust fan to remove the hot air at night. Get an insect screen for a window or two. Open those windows to bring in replacement air until sunrise when the outside temperature begins to rise again. You can continue past sunrise although the lowest overnight temperature is right before sunrise.
Just for reference: our air-to-water (in-floor) heatpump can heat our home from 15°C (our sleep/away setting) to 22°C in about 4 hours. It can also cool, but as you said, cold air falls, so the in-floor coils only does so much. It's ok on the ground floor, but upstairs, it doesn't do enough in the summer with nothing above it that would cool the rooms from above.
You could set up Home Assistant, add the tibber integration and the aqua temp integration. Then you can program the pool heat pump in node-red to run when power is cheap. Quite the rabbit hole, but Home Assistant supports everything from bluetooth toothbrushes to blinds. And you can control a lot of things locally without the manufacturer cloud which is nice.
I have Pulse device from tibber. Use it to increase amps on tesla up or down based on excess solar power in real time. Solar power fluctuates quite alot in Sweden depending on the clouds. Tibber itself is slow to react but my own Home Assistant automation is local and reacts quickly. You can literally stay off grid during the day between April and September to charge your car, warm up your pool, house chores etc. No Elnät och Elhandel whatsoever. Can’t still convince myself for a battery to cover nights as HomeVolt battery provided by Tibber is not modular and is max 13.3kwh.
There should be a Systemair panel to turn off the heat exchanger, adjust fan speed etc. On newer models like in your house it can rotate automatically. In older models you have to put in a "summer block" as a replacement for the heat exchanger unit.
I think it is very interesting to see how much more energy is needed when it gets really cold. I'm just looking at the heater output. The coldest month in northern Germany this year was January with 2,9°C and we needed roughly 1800 kWh of heat. That's a little less than your house needs at similar Temperature but we only heat to 21° and have roughly half as much space. In other words your house is quite efficient.
Interesting. The average temperature in January in Jessheim was quite low. You can see it here: seklima.met.no/days/max(air_temperature%20P1D),min(air_temperature%20P1D)/custom_period/SN4735/nb/2024-01-01T00:00:00+01:00;2024-01-31T23:59:59+01:00 Click at the button at the bottom "vis resultat".
I just replaced air handling units filters after about 4 months of use. Here in Finland the amount of pollen is crazy and the filter was already totally blocked in dust or whatever. Here the max recommended replacement period is 6 months. I think you should check the filters also and maybe inside the machine you can find the model number. Modern units are connected to internet and you can manage them though ann app or website to change parameters for example boosted cooling, timers and temperatures.
I only started tracking my energy use last December and it amazed me how much energy is used for heating in other parts of the world. Just the use in February for the heating is more that I've used in 5 months including charging the car(although I usually do that at work). I guess I'll use more kw for cooling during the summer but still...
This shows the resiliency of our grid. If everyone started driving electric cars the total extra consumption would be just a few percent (5-8%) with an average of 8000-10.000 miles pr year. Even we include trucking/buses etc the energy consumption would increase less than 12-14%. This is very manageable
Your video made me investigate my own ventilation/FTX system. Turns out there is a bypass-grate that I’m supposed to manually open during summer. You probably saved me quite a few kWh:s. Thanks Bjørn!
I suppose my comment was lacking in context. I’m running my heat pump to cool my house, otherwise it gets to like 27C. This video inspired me to have a look in the manual for my ventilation. Turns out I’m supposed to open a grate to bypass the heat recovery in summer time. I guess my heat pump won’t have to work as hard now, hence the potential for energy savings.
Both the pool and charging can be scheduled to when the price is low. Also, since the water underfloor heating is so delayed, you could probably schedule that for low price hours, too.
The systemair unit should have a display/panel where you can change settings. It should be configured to not scavange heat if the inside is way hotter than the outside. On my unit there's a setting called "Free cooling" which basically let the hot air out and take in cold outside air. The limitation tho is that it only works "during the night" between 20:00 - 07:00. Only way to trick the system to work other times is to change the units timezone. I can't find any way to permanenty turn off the heat scavaging and turn on "free cooling". The setting is also locked behind a maintenance terminal but the default codes are on the internet.
Bjørn, Thank you for explaining your "peak power charge" from your electric utility. We have this in the USA for commercial and industrial customers, but only a very few areas here have this for residential customers. They are called "demand charges" here (peak power demand from the customer). They are calculated the same way, measuring the kWh consumed over a time period, however instead of a 1 hour period, 15 minutes is typical. Some utilities use 10 minutes or 30 minutes. Using a 1 hour period is very favorable to customers, lowering the peak kW calculation. We also take the 3 highest kW demand periods for the month and average them, just like in Norway. Many commercial and industrial customers prefer this method, as it allows a much lower kWh rate, giving them flexibility to reduce their electric bill by "shaping" their demand profile.
Your heat pump would need a reverse cycle mode. Heat pumps just transfer heat energy from one place to another, it depends on the valve setup and which restrictor it uses to compress the gas and which radiator/heat exchanger it lets the heat energy out on, ie. indoor/outdoor. Technology Connections has done a few great video explanations.
Very interesting to be able to compare household power use between Norway and us in South Africa. We have an EV in the household and only about 3kW of solar. We average about 600-750kwh electricity usage per month, incl solar production ~ 200kwh/month in winter and ~ 300kwh in summer. Our electricity from the grid costs about 0.1€/kWh As always thanks for the in depth analysis!
Ok, thanks for your insight. Look like i charge cars on a similar energy amount per month. For me 500-1000kWh per month. Means up to 5000km per month. MG4, Ioniq vfl, Ioniq6. Great price you get, congrats. I am at 0,24 for heating, 0,28€ for everything else.
Interesting about the A2A heat pump you considered as I’m in the process of purchasing a Daikin system for my 2 bedroom bungalow - because of the small volume to heat/cool (I’m in west Central Scotland) I only need an ASHP about half the size of the one you have for your house which reduces the cost notably. My house is already fully electric with the heating done by very efficiency German made heaters with ceramic bricks in them and I don’t want to rip them out to have copper pipes run throughout the bungalow to radiators as the piping would have to go along my skirting boards due to a tiny space under the floor making access to run hidden pipes difficult. I can run the A2A pipework above the ceilings in the loft which is the attraction of that system. We also get cold winters here but normally rarely below -10/-15 but in the summer with my well insulated property with a double glazed Winter Garden Room 5m x 4m South West facing I can get temperatures up to 30C and high humidity in the bedrooms and lounge because the heat cannot escape due to the insulation so A2A solves the issue of cooling in summer and efficient warming in winter.
There is a "passive" house in the UK near me that only needs 2 humans inside to be at a comfortable temperature. They have solar and generate so much that they get an annual cheque back from the energy company of £3000 per year.
I know it gets very cold in Norway but the cop looks quite low. In the UK (much milder obviously) you can get a scop (so annual average) of 4.4 in a well designed system. If you have the insulation then it's usually about how you configure the system eg running it on weather compensation, keeping temp setting constant and treating the house as one zone rather than dividing it into different temp zones. I watch videos on the heat geek channel, a bit technical but they should show how a small change in settings can make a big difference.
The COP looks normal to me. In southern Finland a yearly average COP of 2-2.5 is pretty normal, obviously with a highly efficient modern pump higher COP can be achieved.
COP looks pretty normal for these kinds of temperatures. COP drops significantly when its cold so a cop of approx 2 during winter and 4 during spring seems very normal. I live in a warmer area in Norway (warmer during winter / colder during summer) and usually doesnt see COP less than 3.
Get the more advanced panel to the systemair. Then you can active freecooling by outdoor air. Will deactivade the heatexchanger during summer when indoor is warmer then outdoor.
You mean when indoors is cooler than the outside? 😊 Anyways, if it is cooler inside, a heat exchanger can also keep that warm air outside, while "saving" the cold inside air. The problem is that you may experience mold/microbial buildup due to much condensation.
@@jsjs6751 in summer when indoor is warmer than outside, you want the heat exhanger off so you can blow in cool air. And when indoor is cooler you want the heat exhanger to cool the outdoor air.
With that electricity price and not that much sun hours/year. The solar panels doesn’t make any sense. In Italy it’s pretty good. 0.3€/kwh and much more sunlight.
Here in Australia the average cost of electricity is about half of that ($0.25 AUD per kWh). We have a 10kW solar panel system and even with charging two EVs we average about $30 a month in total power ALL year round. Looking at Bjorn's electricity costs I don't feel so bad now where we live LOL. Obviously he's charging a lot more than we are due to his job, which I assume is tax deductible?
@@johnlambert1744 Electricity prices in Norway are below those in other parts of Europe and the government support has been massive in the last few years by effectively putting a "price cap". People seem to complain about electricity prices in the last two years, but if you adjust for inflation electricity isnt really that expensive. The autumn 2022 was extreme , but the price was high because politicians decided to purchase LNG at "any price" to fill up the gas storage before the winter due to geopolitical reasons
Very bizarre that a heatpump can’t cool .I think you miss some electronics or the right credentials..A heatpump can always heat and cool ,you just need the right tools and set the outlet temperature at 18 degrees so you won’t get condensation on you’re floor.I would call Nibe and ask for support.We install a lot of heatpumps with floor cooling and heating no problem
it is not as easy as many think. You must avoid to get below the condensation point of the air humidity. If this happens the floor heaters will be wet and may be mouldy after a certain time of usage.
@@stephanbrenner3317 therefore, setting the supply temperature of 18 degrees is very important in cooling mode, if you want to cool as deeply as possible, a moisture sensor must be placed to determine the dew point. But in all circumstances a heat pump is suitable for cooling. Some manufacturers want you to buy licenses first, but it is not impossible
It's normal for an air to water system. It will have a cooling mode, but as explained in the video, you need emitters (radiators) that have some sort of active air passing over them other wise you are either just inducing condensation or (in the case of an underfloor system) you are just passing cooler water through pipes which isn't going to do a great deal.
@@amiddled The cooling mode of a heat pump cannot be combined with radiators. The heat pump must primarily run over the buffer tank, which we call a hydraulic zero point. On the other side where your floor heating is located, an external pump must be installed that will run over the floor. .
Nibe Biawar heatpomps are build my in hometown in Poland, Bialystok. Panasonic Aquarea H series R32 has heating and cooling option as standard.. It can work as a floor A/C, but this option is not so efficient. You need to be extra careful due to moisture condesing from the air if the floor temperature is too low.
It should be quite easy to add an Air2Air heat pump to the SystemAir system. That would give you the ability to cool the hot air which is entering the house in summer. Air2Air heat pumps are quite cheap. You just need to find an installer who can do that for reasonable price. If you decide to install a separate local air con unit, you can use the "recirculation mode" of SystemAir to make the local air con unit more useful. Another option is using the liquid floor heating for cooling. It's not perfect, ceiling is better, but it works. A friend of mine is using it and is happy with that. The cold water entering the floor must be 20 deg celsius at least, always above the dew point. Most of the ATW heat pumps can do that. Passive style: many people here put nets in the windows/doors for cooling at night. Super cheap. Does not solve problems with the dust, but is OK to prevent insects. When you start using the pool and the garden with kids, the door will be always open in the summer anyway.
I’ve got similar system from Daiken which is able to cool. But as explained it’s not a very efficient way to cool. Also to the ventilation system it should have a bypass which you can activate in the summer. Then the fresh air during night goes directly into the house and it takes hot air to the outside.
Didnt know Fastledd was so cheap over there, here in the south Kristiansand we get billed 690kr for 10-15kWh range, so I never homecharge at more than around 5kw to avoid the crazy expensive 15-20kwh at 900nok
Wow, the numbers seem crazy to me, so far this year I've used 5500Kwh for heating although I live in a tiny inefficient house in a warmer country but it's more than half of Bjorns house
Where does the heat recovery ventilation system dump the preheated incoming air? I'd say the heat pump should support having a heat exchanger (~"cold exchanger" 😋) installed in that ventilation system so that it can cool the house from there?
Have you coniddered to install Sun film on the windows? applied Some 3M film to my bedroom windows and it did lower the temperature to the bedroom by about 3c copared to the other room without. Also a house build for Tek17 and tripple layered glass.
@@bjornnyland Wrong approach with the window film. 3M has film, specifically designed to install externally, avoid complications with the heat differential (3M™ Sun Control Window Film Prestige Exterior Series) but provide thermal protection from the sun. You also have to check how you control your heating. You shouldn't "dial up or dial down" your room thermostat when you have a correctly sized system with proper setup. The heating suppose to cover the heat loss of the house, and managed by the external temperature (weather compensation) during the cold months. It should be on all the time and operate fully automatically. If it is not something is not right...
Ser ut som at du har roterende varmeveksler. På de enhetene jeg har sett og fiklet med, har man et display på selve agreggatet (ser ikke ut som du har det) hvor man kan skru av motoren/rotasjonen som gjør at man slipper varmegjenvinning. Ville tatt en telefon til Nibe å hørt om de har noen tips 🙂
Jeg har en roterende varmeveksler, og i ventilasjonsanlegget er det en bryter som kan stoppe denne roterende varmeveksleren. Det er veldig praktisk om sommeren når det kommer kjølig uteluft inn i huset, spesielt om natten.
I innstillingene på ventilasjon aggregat går det å skru på sommer modus uten gjenvinning, det blir en brytter eller justere det gjennom temperatur settpunkt.
We have a geothermal heat pump. We drilled 160m deep. Even more efficient compared to a normal heat pump as the temperature always stays the same at this depth.
@@bjornnylandIn a decade or so it's my view that they'll stop encouraging air source almost entirely because of the problem with the coldest month. When the temperature drops below -16°C or whatever, and the air source heat pump goes over to PDC, it's not just your house that's affected. I remember you pointing out all the local gas central heating systems still running near your house in January.. Imagine what happens to the spot price if all those houses switch to air source and all those heat pumps nationally switch to PDC (with a COP of 1) all at the same time. Ground source won't fix the problem but it'll reduce it substantially because they sustain a much better COP however low the air temperature. Norway will have to be using all that oil money to fund switching to ground source in the end.
I'm still a beliver of the the ground heat bore hole and a heat pump with hot water heater... And in houses that are really close to or meet passive house standards (30+cm wall insulation and lots of other things, total energy usage per M2 is 15kwh/M2 average over a year) you will get a long way with a air to air heat pump+a small wood stove for shtf situations... What's your calculated energy usage per M2?
I have a different system (Duco) which also has this heat recovery but it has an internal bypass valve which it controls itself. However I am able to override this myself on the system control panel on the unit itself in the attic. Perhaps your unit has something similar?
Hm, our geothermal heat pump needed 2200kWh for conplete 2023. 180qm, mama and baby at home (before the baby it was 1500kWh). Cop in the last years between 4,2 and 5,1. But ok, northern germany is not that cold and electrity here is very expensive, so geothermal makes more sense. Round about 40% of our energy comes from the photovoltaik (exklusive the car, i can charge for free at my company).
Just so you know, you get support for the first 5000 kWh, but you won't get support for the hours beyond that. I don't know if you thought you would loose all support though, I might have misunderstood what you were saying in that case. :)
Energy Recovery Ventilators typically use a ceramic heat exchanger to recover the heat that’s exhausting through it, while pulling in fresh outside air through it as well. This design does not incorporate a way to bypass the heat exchanger, it will always add heat to the outside air it intakes, assuming it’s cooler outside than inside. My suggestion would be to use no fans strategy and setup ‘cross ventilation’ by opening strategic windows.
Typically, the ventilation system includes a bypass valve that allows the supply air to be directed past the heat recovery unit. This can be a manual valve in the ventilation unit.
@@AliusScitmelius this would require a lot of additional ducting, consuming much more space. Considering that the unit is designed to recover heat, whether its warming up the outside air or cooling it off depending on house vs outside air temp, providing a way to bypass this is not something you will typically find in my opinion. This would have a lot of potential to waste a lot of energy, which is why it’s not typical.. although someone could setup an entire ventilation system to behave this way. Buying a packaged system that allows this is another story.
A real heat exchanger should be able to keep the cool air inside, too. So, if you have an air conditioner cooling the inside, and it's warmer outside, the ventilation heat exchanger should recover that "cold" (negative heat), too. The problem is that you will experience mold/microbial buildup in the heat exchanger from the moisture.
Our 1750 sqft 100% electric house in San Diego is at 12.8MWh total in 2023 with 15% powerwall, 23% solar, 62% grid. 8.4kW solar 1 powerwall+ and one ev all year with a second ev for the second half. 2.5MWh net grid usage though after the excess solar that was sent to the grid. Efficient homes ftw!
Holy crap, i don't remember having seen electricity below 20c/kwh in germany. I just looked it up, in 2004 we had 17c/kwh, since then it has gone up and we're currently at 33c/kwh
The prices quoted by Bjørn is the wholesale prices. You need to add an approx 50% on top of that in taxes,grid maintenance etc. Go back to 2015-2020 and the average price was probably less than 5cents pr kwh on average.
@@ZivkoC you can. Just uncheck all the options that want to to order new electricity meters. Then you will just get billed the average energy price for the month.
"I would not fart on video" haha lol I have a clip saved on my phone when you arrive at the hotel in Gol I think when you let out a massive fart and end it with your typical one-liner "aaahh shieet"
>2000kwh on heating in -8C very high, very in europy in similiar dates and temps, heat pump in 250m house take like 500-700kwh so this is very strange, maybe in norway during winter there is very high humidity but I was always tought winters in north countriers are dry, something is wrong with your instalation
Note that's the average temperature for the whole month. 2000kWh is not that high for a 250m2 house with lots of glass surface. It also includes heating of used water, which with a baby can be pretty high.
@@henrikklinkmann4075 is it high, very, very no way its normal, this is more than heating old un insulated house with radiator type heating, it is just too big whole last winter i use like 2500kwh on all heating and water with panasonic pump in high humidity enviroment of central europe and I know that people with modern wooden houses have even less usage
Of course not, but the average temp in many cities in e.g. Germany will be 0 to +2 in January, so a huge difference. Especially when heat pumps lose a lot of efficiency at cold temperatures. When comparing data, you need to have better comparisons. Any you could hear from Bjorns video that their house is more efficient than the top-20% percentile in norway. So their house is definitely efficient (for that size)
@@bjornnyland You need to let convection help you.. So you put the 3M net probably on the kitchen north facing coldest downstairs window where you suck in cool air. The hot air naturally rises so you push that out with a fan through the window of your hottest upstairs room. It's best if you have something around the fan so no air comes in through that window - you only suck the cooler air from downstairs. Turn it on around dusk as soon as the air outside the downstairs window is cool and turn it off during the hottest hours of the day.
There are radiators with fans on top of them that can cool. Dont know how efficient they are but you can as I enquired for it recently. It would be interesting g to know how much you would spend if you used gas and not spend all that money on heat exhanger
23:50. That calculation is certainly wrong. Average sun power is 1kW/m^2 but only on surfaces perpendicular to sun rays path. When you have something lying flat then you must recalculate that 1m^2 to larger area not perpendicular. I'm sure that there are some equation to do that but I don't have time to search for it or create it myself.
This is the formula to calculate the percentage of sunlight (compared to perpendicular) falling on solar panels at a given instant: Cosine of Sun Elevation * Sine of Panel Tilt * Cosine of (Panel Azimuth - Sun Azimuth) + Sine of Sun Elevation * Cos of Panel Tilt
@@damo9997. Okey, THX. But now I wander if that Tilt is measured from horizontal or zenith? Because pool cover is lying on the water surface therefor it is almost certainly horizontal. In that case one of sine or cosine of Panel Tilt will equale to 0 and another to one that will simplify the formula. :) After some thoughts I think that Tilt is measured from horizontal. Because changing Panel Azimuth won't change surface area of flat surface in reference to sun rays path. That will leave very simple formula for calculating sun power over flat surface on Earth to: Sine of Sun Elevation * 1kW/m^2 * surface area. Therefor in accordance to Bjorn's calculation of pool area equal 32m^2 and highest sun elevation in Norway near Oslo (59N) that will give maximum thermal power at 20% absorption rate at about 5.3kW at noon on 22 June (6.4kW*sin(56degree)). :) But only 3.2kW at noon of 21 March and 23 September (beginning of calendar Spring and Autumn).
Sorry to bother, but could you measure the noise, around 2 meters from the output of the air, please? We’re having trouble with out installation, too noisy, would like have a comparison… Do you know if they installed some kind of silencer? Thanks
Solar does not make sense currently. Now on high sun day, the price is even negative now in norway so you have to pay to get rid of the excess power you produce. Some would then say you need to buy battery to save the energy then to later. But that does not help on the financial for the solar panel. It is probably more financial just to buy just the batteries and buy free energy. Solar will probably not make financial sense before we have been able to flatten the duck curve. And it is probably onlye the power companies that would be able to operate large batteries to do so. The goal should probably be to get flatt energy price all day.
Not so impressed, i live Finland and i invest groundheatpump cost was couple years ago 17k€. January all electric consumption was 2,3 MW including electric car. 150m2 warm house and 100m2 half warn garage.
So conclusion is that a heat pump with a collector in the ground with stable COP value 5-6 is worth the added cost and also would provide efficient cooling in summer? I can recommend this video (in Swedish) with a guy talking about over 40 years of experience with the heat pump system in his house that was quite advanced in the 80ies but more mainstream today. th-cam.com/video/bw44QqXBJiI/w-d-xo.html Spot price is typically a bit higher in April since less hydro can be used while the ice is melting in the dams. Ice can destroy turbines.
Considering produces Norway its own power (oil, gas, hydro and wind power) It seems you are getting ripped off by your government, same with food tax. I do not understand that such a rich country, why are you evening paying for electric......... It seems the richer the country the more the people are exploited by the government.
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You can open the front panel of the Systemair ventilation unit and check if the heat recovery unit's rotor is spinning. This rotor spins when the heat recovery is active. In any case, you will need to open the cover once or twice a year to replace the air duct filters (especially after the pollen season).
Thanks for the tip. I will check it out.
Hi Bjorn! You have a very simple display called Systemair SAVE LIGHT. Replace it with one called Villavent SAVE TOUCH HMI. Then you get access to all desired functions 👍
Thank you for the tip. I will check it out :)
Use the cooktop exhaust fan to remove the hot air at night. Get an insect screen for a window or two. Open those windows to bring in replacement air until sunrise when the outside temperature begins to rise again. You can continue past sunrise although the lowest overnight temperature is right before sunrise.
Just for reference: our air-to-water (in-floor) heatpump can heat our home from 15°C (our sleep/away setting) to 22°C in about 4 hours.
It can also cool, but as you said, cold air falls, so the in-floor coils only does so much. It's ok on the ground floor, but upstairs, it doesn't do enough in the summer with nothing above it that would cool the rooms from above.
You could set up Home Assistant, add the tibber integration and the aqua temp integration. Then you can program the pool heat pump in node-red to run when power is cheap. Quite the rabbit hole, but Home Assistant supports everything from bluetooth toothbrushes to blinds. And you can control a lot of things locally without the manufacturer cloud which is nice.
I have Pulse device from tibber. Use it to increase amps on tesla up or down based on excess solar power in real time. Solar power fluctuates quite alot in Sweden depending on the clouds. Tibber itself is slow to react but my own Home Assistant automation is local and reacts quickly. You can literally stay off grid during the day between April and September to charge your car, warm up your pool, house chores etc. No Elnät och Elhandel whatsoever. Can’t still convince myself for a battery to cover nights as HomeVolt battery provided by Tibber is not modular and is max 13.3kwh.
There should be a Systemair panel to turn off the heat exchanger, adjust fan speed etc. On newer models like in your house it can rotate automatically. In older models you have to put in a "summer block" as a replacement for the heat exchanger unit.
I think it is very interesting to see how much more energy is needed when it gets really cold. I'm just looking at the heater output. The coldest month in northern Germany this year was January with 2,9°C and we needed roughly 1800 kWh of heat. That's a little less than your house needs at similar Temperature but we only heat to 21° and have roughly half as much space. In other words your house is quite efficient.
Interesting. The average temperature in January in Jessheim was quite low. You can see it here:
seklima.met.no/days/max(air_temperature%20P1D),min(air_temperature%20P1D)/custom_period/SN4735/nb/2024-01-01T00:00:00+01:00;2024-01-31T23:59:59+01:00
Click at the button at the bottom "vis resultat".
I just replaced air handling units filters after about 4 months of use. Here in Finland the amount of pollen is crazy and the filter was already totally blocked in dust or whatever. Here the max recommended replacement period is 6 months. I think you should check the filters also and maybe inside the machine you can find the model number. Modern units are connected to internet and you can manage them though ann app or website to change parameters for example boosted cooling, timers and temperatures.
I only started tracking my energy use last December and it amazed me how much energy is used for heating in other parts of the world. Just the use in February for the heating is more that I've used in 5 months including charging the car(although I usually do that at work). I guess I'll use more kw for cooling during the summer but still...
This shows the resiliency of our grid. If everyone started driving electric cars the total extra consumption would be just a few percent (5-8%) with an average of 8000-10.000 miles pr year. Even we include trucking/buses etc the energy consumption would increase less than 12-14%. This is very manageable
Your video made me investigate my own ventilation/FTX system. Turns out there is a bypass-grate that I’m supposed to manually open during summer. You probably saved me quite a few kWh:s. Thanks Bjørn!
I got curious. 🙂
What does that mean? How will it save the power?
I suppose my comment was lacking in context. I’m running my heat pump to cool my house, otherwise it gets to like 27C. This video inspired me to have a look in the manual for my ventilation. Turns out I’m supposed to open a grate to bypass the heat recovery in summer time. I guess my heat pump won’t have to work as hard now, hence the potential for energy savings.
Both the pool and charging can be scheduled to when the price is low.
Also, since the water underfloor heating is so delayed, you could probably schedule that for low price hours, too.
The systemair unit should have a display/panel where you can change settings. It should be configured to not scavange heat if the inside is way hotter than the outside.
On my unit there's a setting called "Free cooling" which basically let the hot air out and take in cold outside air. The limitation tho is that it only works "during the night" between 20:00 - 07:00.
Only way to trick the system to work other times is to change the units timezone. I can't find any way to permanenty turn off the heat scavaging and turn on "free cooling".
The setting is also locked behind a maintenance terminal but the default codes are on the internet.
Bjørn, Thank you for explaining your "peak power charge" from your electric utility. We have this in the USA for commercial and industrial customers, but only a very few areas here have this for residential customers. They are called "demand charges" here (peak power demand from the customer). They are calculated the same way, measuring the kWh consumed over a time period, however instead of a 1 hour period, 15 minutes is typical. Some utilities use 10 minutes or 30 minutes. Using a 1 hour period is very favorable to customers, lowering the peak kW calculation. We also take the 3 highest kW demand periods for the month and average them, just like in Norway.
Many commercial and industrial customers prefer this method, as it allows a much lower kWh rate, giving them flexibility to reduce their electric bill by "shaping" their demand profile.
Your heat pump would need a reverse cycle mode. Heat pumps just transfer heat energy from one place to another, it depends on the valve setup and which restrictor it uses to compress the gas and which radiator/heat exchanger it lets the heat energy out on, ie. indoor/outdoor. Technology Connections has done a few great video explanations.
I will take my electric bill . $110-$190 month .after i switched to ductless mini splits . In Florida no less with the really high heat
Very interesting to be able to compare household power use between Norway and us in South Africa.
We have an EV in the household and only about 3kW of solar. We average about 600-750kwh electricity usage per month, incl solar production ~ 200kwh/month in winter and ~ 300kwh in summer. Our electricity from the grid costs about 0.1€/kWh
As always thanks for the in depth analysis!
Ok, thanks for your insight. Look like i charge cars on a similar energy amount per month. For me 500-1000kWh per month. Means up to 5000km per month. MG4, Ioniq vfl, Ioniq6. Great price you get, congrats. I am at 0,24 for heating, 0,28€ for everything else.
Sadly, once your pool becomes active, you will find out how much electricity those pumps use filtering the water. Definitely not trivial.
Maybe solar for the pool pump room 😮
Interesting about the A2A heat pump you considered as I’m in the process of purchasing a Daikin system for my 2 bedroom bungalow - because of the small volume to heat/cool (I’m in west Central Scotland) I only need an ASHP about half the size of the one you have for your house which reduces the cost notably. My house is already fully electric with the heating done by very efficiency German made heaters with ceramic bricks in them and I don’t want to rip them out to have copper pipes run throughout the bungalow to radiators as the piping would have to go along my skirting boards due to a tiny space under the floor making access to run hidden pipes difficult. I can run the A2A pipework above the ceilings in the loft which is the attraction of that system. We also get cold winters here but normally rarely below -10/-15 but in the summer with my well insulated property with a double glazed Winter Garden Room 5m x 4m South West facing I can get temperatures up to 30C and high humidity in the bedrooms and lounge because the heat cannot escape due to the insulation so A2A solves the issue of cooling in summer and efficient warming in winter.
There is a "passive" house in the UK near me that only needs 2 humans inside to be at a comfortable temperature. They have solar and generate so much that they get an annual cheque back from the energy company of £3000 per year.
I know it gets very cold in Norway but the cop looks quite low. In the UK (much milder obviously) you can get a scop (so annual average) of 4.4 in a well designed system. If you have the insulation then it's usually about how you configure the system eg running it on weather compensation, keeping temp setting constant and treating the house as one zone rather than dividing it into different temp zones.
I watch videos on the heat geek channel, a bit technical but they should show how a small change in settings can make a big difference.
The COP looks normal to me. In southern Finland a yearly average COP of 2-2.5 is pretty normal, obviously with a highly efficient modern pump higher COP can be achieved.
COP looks pretty normal for these kinds of temperatures. COP drops significantly when its cold so a cop of approx 2 during winter and 4 during spring seems very normal. I live in a warmer area in Norway (warmer during winter / colder during summer) and usually doesnt see COP less than 3.
Get the more advanced panel to the systemair. Then you can active freecooling by outdoor air. Will deactivade the heatexchanger during summer when indoor is warmer then outdoor.
You mean when indoors is cooler than the outside? 😊
Anyways, if it is cooler inside, a heat exchanger can also keep that warm air outside, while "saving" the cold inside air. The problem is that you may experience mold/microbial buildup due to much condensation.
@@jsjs6751 in summer when indoor is warmer than outside, you want the heat exhanger off so you can blow in cool air. And when indoor is cooler you want the heat exhanger to cool the outdoor air.
With that electricity price and not that much sun hours/year. The solar panels doesn’t make any sense.
In Italy it’s pretty good. 0.3€/kwh and much more sunlight.
I forgot to mention that labor cost in Norway is around €100 per hour...
@@bjornnyland 10k euro installation fee minimum, you need to produce at least 100 MWh just to recover that LOL
Here in Australia the average cost of electricity is about half of that ($0.25 AUD per kWh). We have a 10kW solar panel system and even with charging two EVs we average about $30 a month in total power ALL year round. Looking at Bjorn's electricity costs I don't feel so bad now where we live LOL. Obviously he's charging a lot more than we are due to his job, which I assume is tax deductible?
@@johnlambert1744 Electricity prices in Norway are below those in other parts of Europe and the government support has been massive in the last few years by effectively putting a "price cap". People seem to complain about electricity prices in the last two years, but if you adjust for inflation electricity isnt really that expensive. The autumn 2022 was extreme , but the price was high because politicians decided to purchase LNG at "any price" to fill up the gas storage before the winter due to geopolitical reasons
Very bizarre that a heatpump can’t cool .I think you miss some electronics or the right credentials..A heatpump can always heat and cool ,you just need the right tools and set the outlet temperature at 18 degrees so you won’t get condensation on you’re floor.I would call Nibe and ask for support.We install a lot of heatpumps with floor cooling and heating no problem
it is not as easy as many think. You must avoid to get below the condensation point of the air humidity. If this happens the floor heaters will be wet and may be mouldy after a certain time of usage.
@@stephanbrenner3317 therefore, setting the supply temperature of 18 degrees is very important in cooling mode, if you want to cool as deeply as possible, a moisture sensor must be placed to determine the dew point. But in all circumstances a heat pump is suitable for cooling. Some manufacturers want you to buy licenses first, but it is not impossible
It's normal for an air to water system. It will have a cooling mode, but as explained in the video, you need emitters (radiators) that have some sort of active air passing over them other wise you are either just inducing condensation or (in the case of an underfloor system) you are just passing cooler water through pipes which isn't going to do a great deal.
@@amiddled The cooling mode of a heat pump cannot be combined with radiators. The heat pump must primarily run over the buffer tank, which we call a hydraulic zero point. On the other side where your floor heating is located, an external pump must be installed that will run over the floor. .
Nibe Biawar heatpomps are build my in hometown in Poland, Bialystok. Panasonic Aquarea H series R32 has heating and cooling option as standard.. It can work as a floor A/C, but this option is not so efficient. You need to be extra careful due to moisture condesing from the air if the floor temperature is too low.
It should be quite easy to add an Air2Air heat pump to the SystemAir system. That would give you the ability to cool the hot air which is entering the house in summer.
Air2Air heat pumps are quite cheap. You just need to find an installer who can do that for reasonable price.
If you decide to install a separate local air con unit, you can use the "recirculation mode" of SystemAir to make the local air con unit more useful.
Another option is using the liquid floor heating for cooling. It's not perfect, ceiling is better, but it works. A friend of mine is using it and is happy with that. The cold water entering the floor must be 20 deg celsius at least, always above the dew point. Most of the ATW heat pumps can do that.
Passive style: many people here put nets in the windows/doors for cooling at night. Super cheap. Does not solve problems with the dust, but is OK to prevent insects. When you start using the pool and the garden with kids, the door will be always open in the summer anyway.
There are places in Sweden who have the peak power cost already, everybody will get it in the next few years.
I’ve got similar system from Daiken which is able to cool. But as explained it’s not a very efficient way to cool. Also to the ventilation system it should have a bypass which you can activate in the summer. Then the fresh air during night goes directly into the house and it takes hot air to the outside.
Nice video about your efficient house
Didnt know Fastledd was so cheap over there, here in the south Kristiansand we get billed 690kr for 10-15kWh range, so I never homecharge at more than around 5kw to avoid the crazy expensive 15-20kwh at 900nok
Wow, the numbers seem crazy to me, so far this year I've used 5500Kwh for heating although I live in a tiny inefficient house in a warmer country but it's more than half of Bjorns house
Where does the heat recovery ventilation system dump the preheated incoming air?
I'd say the heat pump should support having a heat exchanger (~"cold exchanger" 😋) installed in that ventilation system so that it can cool the house from there?
Hope you manage to get the heat recovery disabled. I have been researching air to air heat pumps and heat recovery this weekend. It is interesting
you r a technical type guy u will figure it out, plus i dont want to get yelled at for what ithink cheers
Have you coniddered to install Sun film on the windows?
applied Some 3M film to my bedroom windows and it did lower the temperature to the bedroom by about 3c copared to the other room without.
Also a house build for Tek17 and tripple layered glass.
I already have:
th-cam.com/video/JsLzDFKzpXk/w-d-xo.html
@@bjornnyland Wrong approach with the window film. 3M has film, specifically designed to install externally, avoid complications with the heat differential (3M™ Sun Control Window Film Prestige Exterior Series) but provide thermal protection from the sun. You also have to check how you control your heating. You shouldn't "dial up or dial down" your room thermostat when you have a correctly sized system with proper setup. The heating suppose to cover the heat loss of the house, and managed by the external temperature (weather compensation) during the cold months. It should be on all the time and operate fully automatically. If it is not something is not right...
Ser ut som at du har roterende varmeveksler. På de enhetene jeg har sett og fiklet med, har man et display på selve agreggatet (ser ikke ut som du har det) hvor man kan skru av motoren/rotasjonen som gjør at man slipper varmegjenvinning. Ville tatt en telefon til Nibe å hørt om de har noen tips 🙂
Jeg har en roterende varmeveksler, og i ventilasjonsanlegget er det en bryter som kan stoppe denne roterende varmeveksleren. Det er veldig praktisk om sommeren når det kommer kjølig uteluft inn i huset, spesielt om natten.
I innstillingene på ventilasjon aggregat går det å skru på sommer modus uten gjenvinning, det blir en brytter eller justere det gjennom temperatur settpunkt.
We have a geothermal heat pump. We drilled 160m deep. Even more efficient compared to a normal heat pump as the temperature always stays the same at this depth.
That would cost another €15-20k for me. Not possible at all.
@@bjornnylandIn a decade or so it's my view that they'll stop encouraging air source almost entirely because of the problem with the coldest month. When the temperature drops below -16°C or whatever, and the air source heat pump goes over to PDC, it's not just your house that's affected. I remember you pointing out all the local gas central heating systems still running near your house in January.. Imagine what happens to the spot price if all those houses switch to air source and all those heat pumps nationally switch to PDC (with a COP of 1) all at the same time. Ground source won't fix the problem but it'll reduce it substantially because they sustain a much better COP however low the air temperature. Norway will have to be using all that oil money to fund switching to ground source in the end.
And you can use for free cooling in the summer.
10 to 15 ct/kWh, a dream for us in Germany... But I have a pv system, so I can drop my bill.
Foreslår at du ser på en homey,
Den kan styre det meste av smarthjemmet som kommer snart( solavskjerming, laststyring) og ventilasjonen du har idag.
I'm still a beliver of the the ground heat bore hole and a heat pump with hot water heater... And in houses that are really close to or meet passive house standards (30+cm wall insulation and lots of other things, total energy usage per M2 is 15kwh/M2 average over a year) you will get a long way with a air to air heat pump+a small wood stove for shtf situations... What's your calculated energy usage per M2?
Extra 15-20k Euro investment. Did I already mention that we blew the budget by 150k Euros?
I have a different system (Duco) which also has this heat recovery but it has an internal bypass valve which it controls itself. However I am able to override this myself on the system control panel on the unit itself in the attic. Perhaps your unit has something similar?
I think your power bill is OK since it includes heating and driving.
Hm, our geothermal heat pump needed 2200kWh for conplete 2023. 180qm, mama and baby at home (before the baby it was 1500kWh). Cop in the last years between 4,2 and 5,1.
But ok, northern germany is not that cold and electrity here is very expensive, so geothermal makes more sense.
Round about 40% of our energy comes from the photovoltaik (exklusive the car, i can charge for free at my company).
Just so you know, you get support for the first 5000 kWh, but you won't get support for the hours beyond that. I don't know if you thought you would loose all support though, I might have misunderstood what you were saying in that case. :)
I know I won't lose the first 5000 kWh.
Energy Recovery Ventilators typically use a ceramic heat exchanger to recover the heat that’s exhausting through it, while pulling in fresh outside air through it as well. This design does not incorporate a way to bypass the heat exchanger, it will always add heat to the outside air it intakes, assuming it’s cooler outside than inside. My suggestion would be to use no fans strategy and setup ‘cross ventilation’ by opening strategic windows.
Typically, the ventilation system includes a bypass valve that allows the supply air to be directed past the heat recovery unit. This can be a manual valve in the ventilation unit.
@@AliusScitmelius this would require a lot of additional ducting, consuming much more space. Considering that the unit is designed to recover heat, whether its warming up the outside air or cooling it off depending on house vs outside air temp, providing a way to bypass this is not something you will typically find in my opinion. This would have a lot of potential to waste a lot of energy, which is why it’s not typical.. although someone could setup an entire ventilation system to behave this way. Buying a packaged system that allows this is another story.
A real heat exchanger should be able to keep the cool air inside, too.
So, if you have an air conditioner cooling the inside, and it's warmer outside, the ventilation heat exchanger should recover that "cold" (negative heat), too.
The problem is that you will experience mold/microbial buildup in the heat exchanger from the moisture.
Nice haircut Dude ❤
Why no 50 kW DC low end fast charger within your garage?
Because I don't need to charge the car within 1-2 hours and 50 kW DC fast charger is going to cost at least €50,000?
Our 1750 sqft 100% electric house in San Diego is at 12.8MWh total in 2023 with 15% powerwall, 23% solar, 62% grid. 8.4kW solar 1 powerwall+ and one ev all year with a second ev for the second half. 2.5MWh net grid usage though after the excess solar that was sent to the grid. Efficient homes ftw!
1750 sqft = 163 m²
@@bjornnyland dang it, I had all the units correct but one!
25:20 - "the sun has left the chat during winter". 🤣🤣
AC Infinity AIRLIFT T14, Shutter Exhaust Fan 14-inch with Temperature Humidity Controller.
Holy crap, i don't remember having seen electricity below 20c/kwh in germany.
I just looked it up, in 2004 we had 17c/kwh, since then it has gone up and we're currently at 33c/kwh
I payed 22ct/kWh last month + fees in Germany. Tibber is working quite nicely ;)
The prices quoted by Bjørn is the wholesale prices. You need to add an approx 50% on top of that in taxes,grid maintenance etc. Go back to 2015-2020 and the average price was probably less than 5cents pr kwh on average.
@@tschuuuls486 can't use tibber as our House still has mechanical Meters for electricity :/
@@ZivkoC you can. Just uncheck all the options that want to to order new electricity meters. Then you will just get billed the average energy price for the month.
"I would not fart on video" haha lol I have a clip saved on my phone when you arrive at the hotel in Gol I think when you let out a massive fart and end it with your typical one-liner "aaahh shieet"
>2000kwh on heating in -8C
very high, very
in europy in similiar dates and temps, heat pump in 250m house take like 500-700kwh so this is very strange, maybe in norway during winter there is very high humidity but I was always tought winters in north countriers are dry, something is wrong with your instalation
Note that's the average temperature for the whole month. 2000kWh is not that high for a 250m2 house with lots of glass surface. It also includes heating of used water, which with a baby can be pretty high.
@@henrikklinkmann4075
is it high, very, very no way its normal, this is more than heating old un insulated house with radiator type heating, it is just too big
whole last winter i use like 2500kwh on all heating and water with panasonic pump in high humidity enviroment of central europe and I know that people with modern wooden houses have even less usage
Keyword being central europe, average temps will be way higher there. What city is this?
-8 is just an average number. It won't show you the entire picture unfortunately
Of course not, but the average temp in many cities in e.g. Germany will be 0 to +2 in January, so a huge difference. Especially when heat pumps lose a lot of efficiency at cold temperatures. When comparing data, you need to have better comparisons. Any you could hear from Bjorns video that their house is more efficient than the top-20% percentile in norway. So their house is definitely efficient (for that size)
Just open the
e doors and windows at nights. You pull in fresh and cold air
I also pull in insects, dust and pollen. I have to get the 3M net.
@@bjornnyland true true!
@@bjornnyland You need to let convection help you.. So you put the 3M net probably on the kitchen north facing coldest downstairs window where you suck in cool air. The hot air naturally rises so you push that out with a fan through the window of your hottest upstairs room. It's best if you have something around the fan so no air comes in through that window - you only suck the cooler air from downstairs. Turn it on around dusk as soon as the air outside the downstairs window is cool and turn it off during the hottest hours of the day.
There are radiators with fans on top of them that can cool. Dont know how efficient they are but you can as I enquired for it recently. It would be interesting g to know how much you would spend if you used gas and not spend all that money on heat exhanger
Björn! What city in Norway is your house in? Just thinking what the climate is there? It looks cold! He he! ;P
Greetings from Stockholm!
I don't remember seeing it when you gave us the nickel tour of the house, but do you have ceiling fans in your house?
No
23:50. That calculation is certainly wrong. Average sun power is 1kW/m^2 but only on surfaces perpendicular to sun rays path. When you have something lying flat then you must recalculate that 1m^2 to larger area not perpendicular. I'm sure that there are some equation to do that but I don't have time to search for it or create it myself.
This is the formula to calculate the percentage of sunlight (compared to perpendicular) falling on solar panels at a given instant:
Cosine of Sun Elevation * Sine of Panel Tilt * Cosine of (Panel Azimuth - Sun Azimuth) + Sine of Sun Elevation * Cos of Panel Tilt
@@damo9997. Okey, THX. But now I wander if that Tilt is measured from horizontal or zenith? Because pool cover is lying on the water surface therefor it is almost certainly horizontal. In that case one of sine or cosine of Panel Tilt will equale to 0 and another to one that will simplify the formula. :)
After some thoughts I think that Tilt is measured from horizontal. Because changing Panel Azimuth won't change surface area of flat surface in reference to sun rays path. That will leave very simple formula for calculating sun power over flat surface on Earth to: Sine of Sun Elevation * 1kW/m^2 * surface area. Therefor in accordance to Bjorn's calculation of pool area equal 32m^2 and highest sun elevation in Norway near Oslo (59N) that will give maximum thermal power at 20% absorption rate at about 5.3kW at noon on 22 June (6.4kW*sin(56degree)). :) But only 3.2kW at noon of 21 March and 23 September (beginning of calendar Spring and Autumn).
I want that house, but first I must become a famous TH-camr. Here in Hudiksvall we have 29 degrees C inside. The closest thing to an AC is my PC.
Do you have noise when running the air recovery unit? I couldn’t turn my system to level 3, we can’t talk, hear music or watch TV…
It's almost silent.
Sorry to bother, but could you measure the noise, around 2 meters from the output of the air, please? We’re having trouble with out installation, too noisy, would like have a comparison… Do you know if they installed some kind of silencer? Thanks
Curtains when?
Maybe next year.
Doubt you'd get A2A go as low as minus 30
Secooooooond, shyeeeeeeeet
Air is an insulator
Solar does not make sense currently. Now on high sun day, the price is even negative now in norway so you have to pay to get rid of the excess power you produce. Some would then say you need to buy battery to save the energy then to later. But that does not help on the financial for the solar panel. It is probably more financial just to buy just the batteries and buy free energy. Solar will probably not make financial sense before we have been able to flatten the duck curve. And it is probably onlye the power companies that would be able to operate large batteries to do so. The goal should probably be to get flatt energy price all day.
Not so impressed, i live Finland and i invest groundheatpump cost was couple years ago 17k€.
January all electric consumption was 2,3 MW including electric car. 150m2 warm house and 100m2 half warn garage.
Wow, you had 2.3 MW consumption? That's insane! Do you run a factory? lol
@@bjornnyland Yeah. 2,3 MW -> 2300 kW. Did you know Leaf can show only -31 C degree. January it shows 5 days that number😂
@@johnwitick1004 MWh, maybe? (energy)
How much do you on average spend on charging on public chargers each month? Im surpriced to see how little you spend at home on charging 2:31
1000 km challenge = €100-150
I set the the MVHR system to run in bypass mode at night and turn on boost 6am - 8am
So conclusion is that a heat pump with a collector in the ground with stable COP value 5-6 is worth the added cost and also would provide efficient cooling in summer?
I can recommend this video (in Swedish) with a guy talking about over 40 years of experience with the heat pump system in his house that was quite advanced in the 80ies but more mainstream today. th-cam.com/video/bw44QqXBJiI/w-d-xo.html
Spot price is typically a bit higher in April since less hydro can be used while the ice is melting in the dams. Ice can destroy turbines.
You're still in Spring for another 3 week's, unless you don't have 4 seasons, some countries don't
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Considering produces Norway its own power (oil, gas, hydro and wind power) It seems you are getting ripped off by your government, same with food tax. I do not understand that such a rich country, why are you evening paying for electric......... It seems the richer the country the more the people are exploited by the government.
Electricity is being charged the market rate set by purchasers and sellers, ie the private market. Do you want more government intervention?
@@travelguy78 yep, selling the electric abroad drives the local prices up and then Norway has to buy in electric from europe
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