Insomnia insight
ฝัง
- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 16 ก.ค. 2024
- Alex used to be very bothered by becoming aware of falling asleep. He was a guest on the channel in Talking insomnia #16 and has since spend months pondering how to share the best way of not having this experience. In this episode, we look at Alex's distilled thoughts that not only apply to hypnic awareness, but really all of what we call mental wellness.
Do you have trouble sleeping? Can’t sleep? Have questions about insomnia or sleep? Please leave a comment or send an email:
questions@thesleepcoachschool.com
I will be happy to share my thoughts as a video reply in an Ask Daniel episode.
If you want to connect elsewhere I’m on Twitter @ErichsenDaniel, Instagram @Erichsen.Daniel, Facebook as Daniel Erichsen.
Would you like to work with me? Awesome! I would love a chance to help you sleep fantastic. There are three ways we can work together:
- The Self Coaching Master Program www.thesleepcoachschool.com
- BedTyme, a sleep coaching app for iOS and Android.
- Buy my book Set it & Forget it on Amazon. It includes a cell phone number where you can send questions.
The self coaching program is perfect if you like learning through video and also if have mental wellness goals besides such has being less anxious.
BedTyme is ideal if you like to learn via text and have a sleep coach in your pocket.
Not sure where to start? Check out these playlists!
Core curriculum - a collection of the most important insights, a great place to start.
• Playlist
Success stories - if you need hope and inspiration, this is for you.
• Success stories
Insomnia insight - a list of every single episode.
• Playlist
Talking insomnia - guests with trouble sleeping or experts share their stories / tips.
• Talking insomnia
Hypnic jerks, sudden awareness of falling asleep and other common issues.
• Hypnic jerks and more.
Fatal insomnia - for those concerned about ffi and sfi.
• Familial and sporadic ...
The self coaching model
• The model
Best!
This content does not constitute medical advice, diagnosis, or treatment, and should never replace any advice given to you by your physician or other qualified healthcare providers. - บันเทิง
I’ll add by saying you have to be completely okay with having these awarenesses. Which is hard at first. But the more you you become okay with it and ditch all efforts even doing nothing as an effort. And truly and deeply embrace them is when they start to fade.
I still am in a terrible place with this. But many have advised that this is the way through. My reviled anxiety (caught in it's insidious cycle) has stonewalled me from applying this method still. "CBT" commences next week. Trying, but i've NEVER been so afraid in my life.....
Hang in there, and you know, I think it can really help to learn here, watch the success stories and the other videos… and you know, being willing to look inside and see that we are scared, this is courage.
@@thesleepcoachschool8192 thank you Daniel, you are a Saint. Truly.
Something i keep hearing over and over!
@@ApostateofHELL did you do regular cbt or cbt for insomnia? Have your issues resolved?
When I get them, it's like a mild nervous shock across my chest that wakes me. Horrible feeling. But this channel and Daniel's book were a Godsend for me. I feel like I now have an army of support behind me.
So so glad you’re here and I have no doubt things will get easier thanks to your willingness to learn and do some heart work 🙂
I am having the exact same feeling (shock across chest). For me, it is due to health anxiety, I was afraid of something minor to be a terminal illness and thinking it is the end, that thought kept waking me up while I was trying to sleep during a few nights, but now I don’t worry about my health anymore I still get these hypnic jerks (not out of fear of my health, but it just happens). Any tips to overcome this?
@aaronzhao2 hi Aaron, sorry to hear but glad you found you’re not the only one. I’d say study the playlist on jerks and Hypnic awareness, so much there that can help. Link in description of any new video
I tried to use your video as guidance and just acknowledge the hypnic jerk and just lay down the bed but it happened whole night. I dint sleep a bit and it kept repeating every night. Pls help me
I had those jerks before. I was so scared at first for few months. I saw pictures in my heads as in dreams, then suddently woke up when I realised I was drifted away. I even started to notice my hiccups that distured me so much, that kept me awake for whole nights long. The truning point was when I started to tell myself that those pictures meant I was tried and starting to fall into sleep. When I was convinced with that, I stoped worried about the jerks and they disappeared.
Sooo thankful for you sharing this Hong 🙏 it’s so tricky yet so simple in a way, when we turn something into a welcome experience, a sign that sleep is about to happen, we see it as normal… then whatever bothered you disappears. Thanks for sharing insight and hope!
Hong. Brilliant. Can seem impossible.. yet beautiful, when we can finally tinker with our thinking and then reach this place 😇
@@lucylight176 It's not impossible as one thinks. Jerks happen as one starts to drift away. You might still notice them(because we are very much alert when we have fear), and they would keep you awake for a while. But finally you will fall asleep with or without jerks.
@@hongchen27 yes I got in such a bad way with mine because I felt it was my fault and felt terrified I was doing it to myself and couldn't stop. They were brain jerks as if my mind was out of control checking dreams to see if they made sense! Just constantly monitoring & jerking each dream back out as soon as I'd go in. I have been learning to accept all this, love myself through and for it all -and let go and allow. It has been for me, a v long journey. This channel has been a key part of the final piece to the puzzle and is the key part to it all really, however daunting doing nothing at first seems. It is only when you finally start to that it all makes sense. And I agree with Daniel, I think this approach is key to all our inner struggles in life 😚
I had a simillar experience, i woke up at one moment and in the state between sleep and awarnes a saw a picture. Are these hypnagogic halutinations? A am scared that it might be serious. A am also going through hyperorousal but my insomnia is starting to get better. A am just worried about thus weird stuff that's going on. It doesn't happen often but it start happening when my insomnia started. Please tell me i am not going crazy.
Thank you for making this video. I haven't been able to sleep for the last two nights because I get hypnic jerks every time I start to fall asleep.
Anytime Aidan, so glad you found it and thanks for commenting 🙂
Yes when you do nothing or basically using acceptance, but in the back of your mind you hope that by doing this it will help then it’s not true acceptance by definition. True acceptance and doing nothing is where you truly become okay with all the sensations that come in your body(thoughts,feelings, emotions). Zero resistance. It does take time to master this skill of acceptance because at first it seems counterintuitive to do nothing with a “problem” but it’s only a problem if you make it one! It’s all about letting go and trusting in your body and the world:) I used to really struggle with this hyping awareness btw
Yes! This truly sums it up. Where did you learn about mindfulness or acceptance? Any particular books or other sources? Looking for something good to recommend...
The Sleep Coach School Hey! I learned from TH-cam actually. Mainly the teachings of Dr Claire weeks on nervous suffering! You really brought to light how this “approach”, I use that word very tentatively is the key to any mental suffering. You are doing great work here Dr E!!! We need more doctors like you in the world
Got it! Will check that channel out 👍 and yes I totally see how you use any such word like approach/technique/system tentatively... it’s the absence of effort in which the key always lies isn’t it. Thanks for the support Ernest 😊
@@23BronJames hey.. I don't know what's wrong with me.. I can't fall asleep even after accepting these thoughts. I don't get more than 3hours of sleep each night and thia is terrifying me.. I feel so sleepy but still can't sleep because of these awareness.
@@lillyarpa4770 Hi Lilly. How are you doing now? Hope you're better
Thank you.
Oh thank God this is a thing!!! This is exactly why I haven't been able fall asleep for 4 years.
Tania, I’m sooo glad to read this!! Knowing you’re not alone and that this is actually common helps so much!!
More here:
Hypnic jerks, hypnic awareness and other common issues.
th-cam.com/play/PL6RQ1GS7B1ci1B__oGwLvLaJ9Da1lmIKs.html
Be well and in touch!
🙌🏾🙌🏾 thank God
Are you OK now?
Hey Daniel! Just stumbled in your channel and your the first person to describe exactly what I’m experiencing. Do you have any advice on how to apply the non action of not caring would be much appreciated!
Hi Evan!
So glad you landed here and - all the videos really are here to answer those big questions
THANK YOU SO MUCH I DTARTED HAVING ANXIETY FORM THIS THANK YOU
Anytime!! Thanks much for taking the time to comment and stay in touch!!
This is a helpful insight! Going through this journey and learning from this channel, I was struggling alot with Hypnic awareness and jerks. I finally learned that they don't prevent us from falling asleep. What helps overcome these is staying relax and NOT going into problem solving mode in your head. I did the blood tests, chest xray, and asked my doctor about sleep apnea and like you said to me in the past, there's nothing actually wrong with me. Thanks for covering this topic! Nobody really understands this except sleep coaches :)
Laura, so happy to hear that you’ve seen that - there’s nothing wrong with you! And very thankful for you sharing the above, can’t be emphasized enough that it’s when we go into to problem solving mode that we (ironically!) run into problems!
Hi Laura, I have been struggling with hypnic jerks for about 3 weeks already. I just wanted to ask how your jerks are now. It sounds like you've been doing better. I'm very anxious from reading negative forums on the internet regarding these and how some people still suffer. I'm hopeful I'm going to get better but the anxiety in the back of my head is getting to me. Thanks
Hi!
I know you asked Laura here but just wanted to make sure you saw this playlist that I think can be really helpful:
Hypnic jerks, hypnic awareness and other common issues.
th-cam.com/play/PL6RQ1GS7B1ci1B__oGwLvLaJ9Da1lmIKs.html
@@EndlesssWaltz Hi there, I still have hypnic jerks at the start of sleep. Sometimes every night or some night I have zero jerks. However, it has not been the reason why I can't sleep anymore. I do admit that when my anxiety is very high, I get them a bit more intense and frequent but it doesn't take away my ability to fall asleep. Like coach Daniel talked about in his videos, our bodies are made to survive so it's impossible that you lose the ability to sleep because of the jerks. They're annoying but they don't prevent you from entering sleep phase. You let that happen, not your body. I'd recommend not looking for an answer. It's all hypothesis. I've heard some ppl never have them anymore but I learned to accept them. All the best!
@@lauralush23 Thank you!
I’m so glad that I found your channel. For the last month, I’ve been experiencing a terrible bout of insomnia. When I’m sleep deprived, I feel this sense of dread, as if something terrible is going to happen at any moment. I want to sleep so badly, but at the same time, the thought of going to bed makes me want to puke. Even before I had insomnia, I was always a night owl. For the last year or so, I’ve been sleeping between four in the morning and noon. In the last month, however, I’ll often toss and turn until seven or eight in the morning, sometimes even later. I’ll still wake up around noon, feeling groggy and depressed. My insomnia has made it impossible for me to experience joy or happiness. Even in the middle of the day, my thoughts are consumed with sleep-related anxieties. I often worry that the insomnia will never end, that I won’t be able to finish the book that I’m working on, and that my brain will be permanently damaged from the disorientation. I know these thoughts only make my insomnia worse, but I can’t stop contemplating them. I’ve thought about going to the doctor, but I don’t want to take pills. Therapy is an option, but when you live in a rural area like I do, good therapy is hard to come by. Every so often, I will manage to sleep well, but the results never last. When going to bed, I never know what kind of night I’m going to have, and the uncertainty only worsens my insomnia. At this point, I don’t know what to do anymore.
Daniel will respond to you i am sure, but i was in the same place a month ego, but my life is back to normal. the fear of insomnia doesn't bother me any more. Before i always thought that once my insomnia ends i will be able to enjoy life but it's actually the reverse order that worked for me, once i forced myself to go out with friends more, start to enjoy life and stop giving attention and importance to insomnia i started sleeping well.
You are not alone in your struggle and I can assure you that this too shall pass. I've been in your shoes for going on four months and this channel and the app has been helping me a great deal.
Dear Joseph,
Very sorry to hear what’s been happening but I’m glad you’re here!
As you probably already have seen, your story is very familiar. And I don’t see that in any way to belittle what has been happening that so that you know that you are not alone. There’s nothing strange unusual that has happened. Just insomnia.
And you know, the key to sleeping well again starts with understanding. When you understand how it is trying to figure it out, trying to do things to sleep, wanting sleep that is the reason for not sleeping, where there is 0 mystery, then letting go becomes possible. Then your mind doesn’t find a need to obsess over sleep and will allow sleep to happen.
Oh and by the way, thinking that there’s something wrong in your brain, that a sleep switch is broken or that you have a neurotransmitter problem or a hormonal problem, those are super common thoughts. Insomnia can actually not damage your brain or body, that has never been shown!
So as you browse the videos here, I hope you will learn everything you need to get a place we sleep really well. If you’d like, don’t hesitate to send an email, the email address is in the description, and we can answer any questions in an open class episode. Hang in there!
@@rajdeepghosh4672 hi rajdeep, can you share your experience how to combat your insomnia? i would really like to know
@@fistwood okay .. so i was suffering form insomnia for about 4 months, and was taking antidepression pill but they stopped working effectively, then i found cdti and tried that and was sleeping well following bed time restriction but they stopped working too, i was so depressed , then found this channel and Daniel recommend me to pic a long sleeping window of about 7 hours and keep a fixed wakeup time but the key here i learned that it's the anxiety and fear of wakefullness that was not letting me sleep most nights, there are many more things that was feeding my insomnia.. i would say not to worry about insomnia, it doesn't cause any physical harm, even if you cannot sleep do something that you enjoy doing, don't chase sleep, once you truly stop caring about insomnia you will sleep better.. i am bad at explaning things but that's my story, my sleep is 95 % back to normal.. go through the videos on this channel and educate yourself about insomnia.. it's mostly about self coaching..
Oh my god. You saved my life :) Okay, I admit I was using these techniques while on canabidiol oil effect. But last week I tried those without the canabidiol oil just to see if I could make it, and... I MADE IT. I can finally sleep naturally again. I don't even need to think about the techniques anymore. I can just close my eyes and sleep. I'm so okay with this that I'm even posting this comment without the worry of relapsing and having the jerks again. They just went away :) I was so lost
TF, this is sooo wonderful to read 😊!! You know, reading a comment like this is the fuel that keeps the gas full always. And you know, when you have no fear of having the jerks again, that’s when you’re free from the struggle for sure. Thanks so much for sharing!!
@@thesleepcoachschool8192 yeah. I actually tried somethings during the days to decrease the fear of sleep instead of just doing nothing, like meditation, mindfullness, reading good things about sleep and therapy. But when it comes to the very time to sleep, I followed your tip (to do nothing about it, just let it happen) and it worked. THANKS!
@@thesleepcoachschool8192 i suffered from this for 2 months straight :( i was tortured. Last comment, I promise haha thanks again!
Love this 😊! I see that you see it all!! You’re so very welcome, thanks for being here 🙏
@@SteveFoi were they hypnic jerks?
I had it for a few days except the last two nights. Seems like it reduced.
Step outside in daylight for 45 minutes or more. You can be under shade if its too sunny.
The other thing is, avoid/ignore the thought of the anticipation of not getting sleep. It gives anxiety and makes things bad.
Try and go to sleep like you did before the jerks started. And do it everyday.
It will reduce or even go away.
I've posted this comment on a few videos so more people can be at ease.
Hi Faraz, thanks for sharing something to make things easier for our fellow humans 🙂
How are you now brother? & what other things you did to beat anxiety
@@rahulpardeshi6646 I'm better now.
First thing is routine. Do the same things at the same time everyday. (Force yourself)
Anxiety is probably not going away. You have to outsmart it in your head. Everyday.
Lifting weights, reducing masturbation, lots of water, minimum sugar are great starting points to reduce anxiety.
Ultimately, only you can save yourself. I know it because I've been there.
@@farazahmed9588 bt bro how can I exercise if I can't get min. Of sleep in night?
@@rahulpardeshi6646 Go to a park and walk every day.
For me, changing my pillow was the best thing I did.
I got one from The White Willow on amazon for 1200rs. I've slept every night since then after a horror show of 4 months.
thank you
Anytime 🙂
I've been suffering from panic attacks and contant daily headaches and head presure, and recently the last few weeks I havent gotten any sleep. Sometimes there is no conscious build up. But right as Im about to drift off to sleep i just JOLT awake! My Heart starts racing my hands and feet start sweating terribly. Its so scary, even my anti-depressants dont help. I dont know what to do anymore
Hi YP,
Sorry to read these lines but glad you’re here.
I think you can learn a lot here that will help.
Insomnia insight 316 is about panic attacks and here’s a playlist on sleep-wake transition events like whole body jolts.
Hope it helps!
Hypnic jerks, hypnic awareness and other common issues.
th-cam.com/play/PL6RQ1GS7B1ci1B__oGwLvLaJ9Da1lmIKs.html
My hypnic jerks started off from panic attacks too. Some nights they would last the entire night and I wouldnt get any sleep
@@shorfan I'm having this same problem. Did you manage to solve the problem?
Cant do anything....
I appreciate you so much thank you ❤
This is similar to my sleep issues. But, it's not about letting go or something like that. It's just something I have to deal with because I'm not privileged enough to get health insurance. Anyway when all this started with when I first had sleep paralysis. Once the episodes of sleep paralysis started. I then started having some episodes of exploding head syndrome. But, for whatever reason. I decided to just try to get my self used to the feeling. Eventually, I started being completely aware when I fall asleep. It felt like everything around me was vibrating and, warm. Eventually I found that I I sleep on my side or, stomach I would fully fall asleep. But, for the past few years now. I have been getting hypnic jerks when I fall asleep on my side or stomach. But, when I fall asleep on my back I'll I'll still be aware and, my mind will be awake and, I'll hear my self snore and, once I realize that the sound I hear is me snoring. I suddenly wake up. So I try to keep sleeping on my side instead. But, the hypnic jerks kick in and, wake me up. Sometimes it's not even a jerk. It's just a weird sensation. Like a fluttering in my head and/or chest. I find that if I pull an all nighter or/if I distract my ADD mind with fiddling with something I can get to sleep. Also when I was taking ritalin or my Wellbutrin I was able to fall asleep. Witch I think is kinda funny because both those medications cause insomnia. Unfortunately I'm not one of those privileged people that can afford consistent medical assistance and, I could no longer afford such things. Especially when everyone only wants part timers or the collage student take all the good jobs. Now inflation is kicking in -_-
I would also like to add that even if you’ve had lots of success with hypnic awareness, they can still bring you back to a MOMENTARY state of wakefulness after they happen and you’ve done nothing about them (non-action) but don’t take that to mean that the non-action isn’t working because soon thereafter you will fall asleep!
Alex! Thanks so much for emphasizing this 👍
The Sleep Coach School Youre very welcome! I think it’s also important to know that you may have multiple hypnic awarenesses in a night, but that is completely normal and should not be taken as a sign that not doing anything about them is not working because you will still fall asleep!
100%! It’s these specific insights that really make all the difference. One could say “nothing about them is to worry about”, which is tru but doesn’t really help because the mind always finds a reason to say but “what if it happens multiple times?” for example. So these specific insights are the ones that really make a difference imho!!
@@thesleepcoachschool8192 God yes
@@alexswanson326 hey Alex? Did you experience them? Ive started having them after I caught covid the first time two years ago. Now it’s impossible to fall asleep without a sleep aid med
So…what I’m experiencing at night isn’t exactly hypic jerks but, I’m finding that the last few nights, when bed time is approaching (and then when I’m laying there trying to fall asleep), even though I’m so sleepy, I am aware of this constant tightness in my chest that is really uncomfortable and keeps me from falling asleep. It’s obviously caused by anxiety and the fear of not sleeping and thus hyperarousal, and I’m sure involves the flooding of stress hormones into my body (almost like the beginning of a panic attack), but it just stays and won’t go away and thus prevents me from falling asleep.
Last night it was so strong and uncomfortable that I couldn’t fall asleep until maybe 3 or 4am (not sure since I didn’t look at the clock). I’m finding I even carry this stress and constant tightness in my chest with me during the day. I don’t know what to do about this. The answer “do nothing” or “just accept it and let be and it’ll pass,” doesn’t really make sense to me because even when I focus on other enjoyable activities at night or go about my day it’s constantly there. It’s like my body is permanently engaged in this hyper arousal, fight or flight mode, leaving me feeling miserable, exhausted, hopeless and unsure of how to get past it. Yet as long as this chest tightness and adrenaline are pumping through me, sleep seems unattainable. Please help 🙏
Hi Emily,
You know, this sounds intense… but I’m so glad you’re sharing so we can talk about this.
The thing that can make it seem strange that you have surface manifestations of fear like palpitations or breathing fast or tightness or racing thoughts is that it is out of context.
Imagine that you’re playing this intense game of volleyball. There’s a lot of emotions there! You can be super excited in one moment and then really scared that they will win in the next. Your heart may be pumping hard, you may be breathing fast, you may be sweating, but that doesn’t seem odd at all. You don’t even take note of this because it is in context.
But when you are awake at night and feel this way, it seems strange because you can’t see any type of threat. The threat is internal, the brain has started to think that being awake is a threat and something you need to get away from, but you obviously can’t see that so your automatic response seems strange.
It can be really helpful to see this because then there’s less mystery and whenever we normalize an experience it bothers you less and less. And just understanding it often leads to it fading.
Did this make sense Emily?
Thank you for this i don't know that it will change anything straight away but it calms my nerves the jerks really cause me anxiety expecially when i really want a good nigh5s sleep... but the anxiety worry and focus on tgem makes it so much worst... Learning how to rest your mind and not focus on them is half the battle...
Anytime, and you know, knowing that it’s not easy, it’s not easy for the brain to see that there’s nothing to be afraid of, this actually helps a lot. It’s when we go “I should be getting this, why can’t I manage something so easy” etc, that’s when we have some struggle. When we go “I understand that shifting focus helps, and this often doesn’t happen fast or easy”, this is a nice and gentle and effective way. You’re on a nice path!
I was getting them and last night i did get them too however they were comparatively milder than what i was getting for a past few days. I went to bed at 1 and was able to finally fall asleep by 3. However the issue was, i was waking up after almost every 1.5-2 hours of sleep. And every time i did wake up, i could feel that the instant i woke up i was thinking about “how to fall asleep”. I think its running in my subconscious and i need to get rid off this thought as I understood that chasing sleep will only make it worse. However one thing to note is that i was getting several dreams the moment i fell asleep. And i quite vividly remember them too. I have got a grip on my anxiety, i think things will improve the less I care.
It was still a big problem for me because even if I tried to do nothing about the awareness, i was actively trying to do nothing if it makes sense. I was trying to stay calm but when you’re actively trying to stay calm it also doesn’t work. So it kind of turned into some sort of OCD because I developed a control over controlling. But what I realized is hypnic awareness doesn’t happen if a sleep drive is really really strong! That really helped me to let go because our bodies won’t let us hurt ourselves. The trick is just to trust your body.
Yes because when you accept with in intent that you want to try and reduce a thought or symptom then it’s not true acceptance or “letting go” it is about trusting your body and the world to just say “whatever” and Truly deeply accept what your feeling and thinking. I had these awareness also.
Elena, thanks so much for sharing. Trusting the body, so hard in the beginning, so helpful when you can! This comment is so helpful - thanks again!!
Ernest! Nice hearing from you again and 100%, thank you so much for the insightful and helpful comment!
@@23BronJames how do you reach true acceptance? I feel like there's always an intent when accepting something
I get these every single night. I also get sleep paralysis a couple times a week.
Thanks for sharing, and do check our playlist if you’d like to learn more, link in description of any new video
Hello Danial
Thank you for all the information so far
When I get into a hyper awareness state and panic and get off the bed , go to the toilet or try to sleep on the couch. That makes my nights even worse .
I heard in some of your videos that do not stay in bed if you could not sleep
But is it applicable in this situation as well ?
Or just ignoring the hyper awareness and keep lying on the bed
Hi GS,
Anytime and - our teaching is what the connection awake-danger (not bed-awake) creates struggle so it doesn’t matter where we are, it’s teaching ourselves that being awake is safe and acceptable that leads to peace
Have you resolved your issue?
I am in the same situation as you. Seeing if you figured it out.
Try and 'let it go' and don't 'expect it,' that's my advice after suffering hypnic jerks x
Thanks much for sharing 🙏
I’ve had nights where I’ve had a really high sleep drive from having little sleep for days in a row and would think I would go right to sleep but still can’t fall asleep, why is that you think?
Yes, nice observation. When we think “I should sleep because I’m so tired” that can increase the hyperarousal, the brake and then we don’t sleep
I know this is partly related to the topic, but my problem was about the anticipation of sudden noises. It feels like sleeping in a jungle. My mind subconsciously seeks signals/noise and when I'm about to drift off, it goes back to anticipating which causes the jerk. Honestly, I'm so full of adrenaline right now due to sleep deprivation for months which doesn't help with the hypervigilance either.
Hi Gio,
You know what I think could really help, listen to Talking insomnia 37. Joe was driven to so much trouble by noise, and then saw how this was actually not the problem… it was something deeper, and when he saw this, things started to change and he did really well. Let me know how it sounds!
@@thesleepcoachschool8192 Thank you Daniel for the reply! I watched the video and it gave some really good insights especially the "acceptance and floating" thing.
BTW I also had this problem where I just became a complete control freak wherein I do rituals and organize things, weari earplugs and tell people what to NOT do at night in order for me to sleep. Otherwise, I will have these intrusive thoughts of them doing the exact opposite. I know this is not healthy for the long run but I don't want to risk uncomfortable nights trying. Would you suggest giving them all up in one go? What would I do with these intrusive thoughts? Thanks again!
I’m so glad it made sense! And you know, seeing our attempts to control things with rituals and other ways, this already has created a gap. Now you and the rituals are separated, you have noted them, and that’s a big step from leaving them and being more free.
I think when it comes to efforts, it helps to not pressure yourself when you see that they aren’t helping. For some ripping the bandaid is their way, for others a slow and gentle path is their way. Whatever feels like your way I think is.
Now as for thoughts (they really just happen, when we call them negative or intrusive it’s a little bit of self criticism there 😉) I think the below can help:
Our brains communicate with us using various signals. Worry thoughts are signals intended to make us safe from a potential threat. Anxiety is a signal that there’s something we should look out for that may potentially hurt us. Pain signals to us that we are getting hurt and we should do something to avoid harm. All our emotions and physical sensations are signals.
Now there’s never anything wrong with the signal itself. For example if someone is afraid of spiders, the fear is totally appropriate, because the brain thinks that there’s a real threat.
Now what happens often however is that we start looking at the signals as the problem, not seeing that it’s the confusion that is what we should look at!
For example, we may start to think that anxiety (a signal) is something that we shouldn’t have so much of. Then what happens is that we try to get away from this signal, which to the brain means… we aren’t hearing the signal!
What does the brain do when we aren’t hearing? It sends more of the signal!
Now the question becomes this - the signals often are very unpleasant (which is of course the point!) so how to have less signal?
It’s to show the brain that we hear the signal.
We do this by being willing to experience the discomfort without judgement, without trying to make it stop, just acknowledging it without action.
When the brain sees that we are hearing the signal, it stops signaling!
So how can we listen in practical reality? Here are three ways!
1 Thought download
Write your thoughts and feelings down for 10 minutes daily at a specific time. With no intention but to show the brain we are listening. This can really give the brain an outlet and you can find that it starts postponing warning you until this time.
2 Going there in the mind
Imagine the scenario the brain is trying to warn you about. This is a bit scary, but really shows that you’re listening! For example if the brain says “what if I you get fired?” then you can imagine this in detail. The call from your boss, leaving the work place etc.
When we are willing to experience something if even just in our minds, then the brain sees that we listen.
3 The Aha method
I think this is very practical and effective. When you have a stressful thought you go “Aha! My brain is trying to warn be about losing my job. I see what’s happening here” or “Aha! My bear is racing, that’s normal and expected when there’s some fear!”
Literally any thoughts or emotions or physical sensations of hyperarousal can be met with an “Aha!”. It’s a very practical way of listening.
@@thesleepcoachschool8192 Thank you! I really do appreciate the amount of effort and time you put into addressing everyone's concern as I have been browsing a lot of your videos and also found a similar story in Open Class #105. I think that this past month I just find myself obsessing and trying to unnotice what has been noticed which is really adding up to the struggle. The sleep deprivation caused a downward spiral wherein, like I said, keep having thoughts and I also think that my sleep drive has kind of diminished as I wake up a couple of times a night and don't feel as sleepy as I used to be. I'm just trying to find reassurance that I would be back to where I used to be.
Anytime! And you know I see so much clarity here, and such great work contextualizing what you learn in Open class. Understanding leads to reducing fear, and when there’s no fear there’s no more struggle, you’re on a nice path 😊
Hi Daniel, I have something similar. It’s a constant monitoring of when I’ll fall asleep. From the moment I lie down to the moment I think I’ll fall asleep. It’s very disconcerting. Not so much hypinc awareness but constant awareness. No room for pleasant thoughts etc I feel that it will prevent me from EVER (days and days) falling asleep as I’m so fixed on it. I have no control obviously but any thoughts on this?
Hi Sam,
Thanks for being in touch! I would say that understanding the constant monitoring and how it’s normal in the context helps much.
I say this because when we see that the constant monitoring isn’t helpful, we actually wants to stop the constant monitoring. Which is another way of trying to have control.
On the flipside, understanding the constant monitoring can help. When we think about it, the brain is just one loving survival machine. It wants so much to keep us safe. This is why it keeps monitoring everything it thinks may be a threat.
And it can get a little confused. Sometimes it thinks that being awake is the threats. Sometimes it think it’s the process of falling asleep. But what is important to note is that it all comes from a good place, a place of caring much for you.
So now that we have looked at why constant monitoring happens, what should we do?
This is the paradox: when we allow it to happen without judgment and without any intent of trying to make it stop, then there’s no resistance.
And when there is no resistance, the brain realizes that we are not pressuring it, we are hearing its warning signals, we are not trying to push it in any direction, and then it becomes really peaceful. When it is heard and understood, it has no reason to keep warning you and you find peaceful sleep and peace of mind.
@@thesleepcoachschool8192 thank you. So true acceptance and non resistance at all is key? Simply let it happen as it happens? Thank you brain. Thanks Daniel. You’re doing so much for this community.
I liked your interpretation for this difficult case. Alex as well explained it very well.
I have been struggling from insomnia since 8 months caused by hypnic awareness primarily. At the beginning of my suffering I couldn't sleep for two entire nights. Then after many check ups and blood tests maybe I did all kinds of tests that a human can do. My doctor prescribed for me Xanax 0.5mg before bed then he added some magnesium supplement. He said you can take them together for at least 6 months. Now I started to tapper the Xanax. Only half dose and I reduced the magnesium to its half dosage. I feel ok. I tried to stop the Xanax completely but these jerks are still coming.
Do you think your method described can solve my problem even after this long period of struggling?
Anyway I will try it. It's a long journey for me.
So glad it makes sense 🙂 and you know, the same understanding really is what helps whether we’ve struggled for days or years… rooting for you!
@@thesleepcoachschool8192❤
Thank you
It is difficult when you wake up with rapid hearbeat and short of breath, it's scary when you just start to sleep
Hi Nicole, it is… and often it’s the lack of context that produces so much fear…
Here, this can help:
th-cam.com/video/c44h9rSBqqU/w-d-xo.html
Hang in there and let us know how things go Nicole.
Recently I have been aware of the transition from wakefulness to sleepiness. I feel very sleepy and when the sleep hits I suddenly wake up. I am like wow I was thinking about this thought? It is becoming very difficult for me to fall asleep and even if I fall asleep I wake up after 1hours of sleep. And then again have hard time to fall back asleep because I notice the thoughts and obsess over how my sleep is coming.
Hi and welcome to the channel. Sorry to hear this happening but glad you are here.
Check out this playlist, I think it will be really helpful!
Hypnic jerks, hypnic awareness and other common issues.
th-cam.com/play/PL6RQ1GS7B1ci1B__oGwLvLaJ9Da1lmIKs.html
Let me know whenever you have questions- hope you sleep better soon!
I seem to really notice the transition and it kinda became an obsession I think. I am afraid of it. I don't get more then 3hours of sleep each day. I don't know why accepting these thoughts not working.. Is it really going to work? I am really afraid of it and can't fall asleep because of this awareness!
Hi again and thanks for staying in touch.
I’m sorry to hear this is bothering you but, you have a lot of insight here which will help!
The more attention towards hypnic the more they happen. So when you obsess, you get a lot of them.
And you know this can sound like not very helpful, but when you know why something happens, you’re no longer stuck, you can change things!
Now here’s something important - the more you try to stop them, the more of them you have. It’s kind of like when you try not thinking about a pink elephant, then you do exactly that.
So when you say that you don’t know why you still sleep so little and have these events even when you’ve accepted the thoughts - that shows us that accepting the thoughts became an effort!
It became a means to an end, it became a way of trying to stop the events and sleep more.
And the more you try, the less sleep and more events you get!
So I think the first step is always understanding. Browse the playlist until you fully understand what’s happening.
When there’s no more mystery, then you won’t feel a need to figure it out. And then you’ll automatically think less about it. And then, when less attention is going towards sleep, you’ll start sleeping better and have less hypnic awareness.
Hang in there and let us know how things go!!
@@lillyarpa4770 hey are u feeling good now plz tell me
i m also face this situation
@@lillyarpa4770 how are yoy now??
I want to learn more, how do I get in on classes and/or coaching?
Hi Dana! If you’d like to send a question to open class, here’s the link:
www.thesleepcoachschool.com/have-questions
For coaching, check our website thesleepcoachschool.com and you’ll find several options.
Let me know if I can help with anything further!
Nice one. Thanks Alex. Hey Dr Daniel, just a quick question. When you say insomnia doesn't really damage your body or your brain, I'm kinda surprised by that, could you explain it a bit more? Thanks
Sure! I’m not surprised that you’re surprised because we always hear that not sleeping enough damages our health and causes all kinds of issues. But guess what, there’s no evidence backing that up! Meaning - there’s not a single large randomized study that shows that there is a causal link between short sleep/insomnia and any health problem.
Not sleeping well obviously makes you tired and you feel crappy and you have brain fog, but it’s never shown to do any harm beyond making you feel this way.
A super large meta analysis from early 2019 by Lask & Lovato looked at 36 million people and showed 0 difference in longevity between those with or without insomnia.
I’ve written a book called Why we don’t sleep on this topic!
@@thesleepcoachschool8192 wow can't say how much I find that fact comforting. This will eliminate lots of worrying I usually get. I'd love you to do an episode addressing this, I'm sure a lot of people will find it comforting and it may be the beginning of the end of their anxieties.
Very happy to hear this :)! And you know, I have some videos specifically on this topic but they’re sorta old, perhaps it’s time for revisit this!
Hello sir Daniel. I have a question, is hypnic jerks and hypnic awareness are the same?
Hi Super Oil!
They’re similar but one is a jerk jolting us up, another is the awareness of sleep happening jolting us awake
I need to work with being okay about having hypnic awareness and hypnic jerks and they will diminish eventually
This is the way. And you know just saying “I need to be ok” you already are!
I've been suffering these hypnic jerks for near on the past month & i'm NOT at all dealing with it. Caught in the nervous/anxiety cycle & it's scaring me.
Hi there, sorry of course about this struggle with them, but glad you’re here. This playlist can help:
th-cam.com/play/PL6RQ1GS7B1ci1B__oGwLvLaJ9Da1lmIKs.html
My hypnic jerks last from about 9pm to 1am. They are completely instantaneous and involuntary. No matter how much I try to ignore or accept them, they come every night. I do not understand how it possible to accept something which is so physical and stressful. Please help.
MA, hang in there!
This is such a tricky spot to be in. But you know, you already have one huge insight - that accepting is what leads to peace. This is big because it will help you and guide you.
You also see that they are involuntary, this can help because then it highlights that you also can’t stop them voluntarily. Another step towards no action.
Now what I think really can help here is seeing the intent. “No matter how much I try…they come every night”.
You know how people say that you find things when you’re not looking?
Well imagine that you’ve been looking for your glasses for a while and you haven’t been able to find them. Then you remember that people say that you find things when you’re not looking. Then you decide not to look.
After about two hours you’re frustrated because even after not looking, you still haven’t found them!
The thing here is that, you’re actually still looking for your glasses, because you’re upset that you didn’t find them when you were “not looking.”
This is the tricky thing with sleep, it is when you truly aren’t trying to sleep that sleep comes to you. It is not easy but you often have these little magical moments. That one time where you didn’t really think so much about sleep and slept a little more. That time you were not looking.
And when you see how not looking, not trying, leads to you finding the thing you’re looking for, then it gets easier and easier.
It’s the same here, when there’s no intent with accepting, when we aren’t trying to achieve the jerks going away… that’s when they stop bothering you. Hang in there and let us know how things go!!
Hi Daniel,
I can't seem to get over my hypnic awareness...as soon as when I'm falling asleep I can see my thoughts get dreamy and body relaxing and then I start analyzing and thinking "wohoo that means I'm falling asleep" and I'm trying to make this dreamy state stay so I can fall asleep but then my self monitoring system kicks in to check if I fell asleep yet and of course I fully return to being awake...and I'm trying to be okay with it, kind self talk, saying to me myself that it's okay, I'll just relax, it doesn't matter if I sleep tonight,I'll still enjoy my day tomorrow...but hypnic awareness still happens,2 or 3 times before I become hyper-aroused and then I'm up for hours. And how do I turn off this annoying self monitoring of sleep? I go to bed and just let myself drift or visualize something,but my subconscious is closely monitoring if I'm sleepy,if I'm falling asleep, what are my thoughts like,am I relaxed and so on...how do I just let myself drift into sleep without self monitoring?
Hi Nina,
Thanks for being in touch and, this is a tricky one but also a common one! Meaning, when we try to change our thoughts, they can become really sticky. When we do something with the intent of not experiencing something, we experience that more!
Let's take a look at this:
"kind self talk, saying to me myself that it's okay, I'll just relax, it doesn't matter if I sleep tonight,I'll still enjoy my day tomorrow...but hypnic awareness still happens"
Being kind to oneself is fantastic! For example when you don't blame yourself for being unable to stop hypnic awareness. It is impossible to stop thoughts or to make yourself calm. So when you are kind to yourself when you feel frustrated, and remind yourself that you tried doing something impossible, this can truly help.
When on the other hand kind self talk has a goal attached, for example reducing hypnic awareness, then it can actually make you struggle more! Because remember, the more you want to get away from something unpleasant, the more you'll experience just that!
So the key is to let things happen without judgement and without intentions of making it stop or go away. I know it's tricky, but it is really helpful when you start approaching things this way. When you see how this is helpful for hypnic awareness, you can deploy this approach towards insomnia in general and anything else really that you struggle with!
@@thesleepcoachschool8192 thank you so much Daniel. I'll try to do absolutely nothing about hypnic awareness with no reaction at all. It feels really difficult not to self monitor and let go of all efforts. My mind know it makes sense and I want to do it but my subconscious still does it the wrong way. I wish I could just rewire my subconscious or delete all memory of insomnia from my brain 😁
At first when I started following your method I became very optimistic and hopeful and started getting progressively better but then 1 week if bad sleep threw it all off and to be honest my sleep has gotten even worse than it was...starting from 0 again...hard to remain as hopeful and optimist as I was in the beginning because I failed and have to start again :(
@@ninasimonovic6852 how are you now??
@@sa-nc3wp hi, i am almost back to normal now, I sleep well and occasionally have less sleep which is normal when your body is self-regulating :) ...things started improving very fast for me as soon as I completely stopped paying any attention to sleep, nothing at all. I just pretended insomnia wasn't there, didn't question anything, moved on with life like all is good and went to bed without any expectations, just went to relax and whatever happens let it be. Sleep is not something we do, it's something that happens automatically just like breathing, metabolism, and many other bodily functions. Just accepting everything including anxiety and letting it be, very quickly it started to fade away. I don't think about sleep at all now, just like when I used to be a normal sleeper, it's just not something we have to think about it, it's something the body does without our intervention, we can't control it. Just keep watching Daniel's videos until it clicks for you and you realise it, also I recommend Sasha Stephens books.. and watch Daniel's interview with Sasha, it's very good and it will give you insight you need....but the more you watch it, research it and anayse it, you'll realise that it always comes to this - don't think about sleep, don't care about it, pretend it's not there, forget it, it's not something you have to contol,it's something the body does by itself so just relax, let things be, body always self-regulates and seeks homeostatis so just know that it will absolutely get back to normal (as soon as you stop trying to fix it), allow it to happen and forget about this. good luck :)
@@ninasimonovic6852 that's great, did you have any other symptoms??
I've been dealing with this for years. This sucks. It's like rabies.
It's like I'm thirsty for sleep but I am also afraid of this happening to me again and again - one after the other and hence I cannot get enough sleep.
That’s a long time… but glad you’re here, hang in there and hope you’ll find something helpful here
How are u now
Yup same. Been dealing with it for about 4 years. Didnt happen until after a tramatic experience.
Hello. I feel so alone as mine is in my brain/mind. i have had this on and off for over 20 yrs and is at its worst, unbearable. For me I feel the problem is so entrenched in my body & nervous system and brain it is automatic. It is as if my brain is checking for dreams and wakes me soon as they come in also it checks the content of the dreams soon as they come in and of course dreams being as wacky as they are, it flags them up straight away.
I found having a positive mindset in a Law of Attraction way -where you think and feel as you would want to in order to be ok -so I am calm, trusting, knowing feelings v helpful if I could focus enough on them and sort of click them in. But I havent been able to make it last (I did once for six glorious months but got triggered again into v bad spell & felt more despairing at having lost what felt so good)
I have now become obsessed with methods and trying to install them at night if I haven't managed to keep them going in the day is of course keeping me in a terrible state. I suspect the surrendering you talk of is the missing link. I tried it all last night though and had yet another torturous all-nighter. I really want to have that sense of knowing and faith about it but also to know I am letting go and my brain feels like it just wants me to pick one but i feel I need to both know and be able to let go. I know, terrible over thinking, I am so extremely sleep deprived and desperate.
Lucy, so sorry to hear about the long years of suffering, but glad you’re here. And you’re right I believe, often the one thing we don’t try is not trying. And knowing that the more we try the less we sleep, this can often help make sense of things.
But you know, listen to the success stories here, we have several guests who’ve had insomnia for decades before leaving the struggle. Knowing this and that you’re not alone, this can help so so much.
@@thesleepcoachschool8192 Thank you so much. I have already been watching some wonderful students and coaches here and do feel good sense of hope again and inspiration. I will v likely apply for coaching v soon and am deeply heart-warmed to find your extremely homely and interactive channel that addresses what can seem such lonely hell, esp hypnic jerks (didn't even know they had a name till v recently!). So much appreciation :)
🙂 so glad you’re here
@@thesleepcoachschool8192 😊Me too!! And Happy New Year to you all xx
Hey Daniel, at the Moment I am so afraid of how I can drift off at all- I’m laying there waiting to drift off but by focusing on it, it doesn’t come for sure. How could I not focus on this? I’m so scared to not be able to drift off, because this is natural and I don’t know how to just let it happen anymore, if that makes sense…..
Hi Ella,
You know, it’s so paradoxical but when we try not to focus on something… we are focused on that. When we on the other hand see the brain being focused on drifting off.. and we go “aha, I see what’s happening brain, you’re wanting to keep me safe by keeping an eye out on something you think is a problem. Thanks for caring!” - and we don’t try to control this… then things get easier all by themselves…
@@thesleepcoachschool8192 This was really helpful and it really makes sense. I’ll try to not push it away but accept it instead. Do you find the “what-ever-attitude“ helpful with your clients? Like you pretend you don’t care and reply to your thoughts with "what ever, I don’t care“.
Thank you so much!
So glad it was 🙂! And oh absolutely, this is where Natto comes from. So many said “I slept when it stopped caring” - which didn’t ring entirely true… and to me, “not caring” came to mean not being attached, being ok with whatever happens… this said, I don’t think we can fake it until we make it… that just creates inner tension. So we can see that being less attached is the way, and let the brain figure out how this translates into change!!
I was sleeping with small hypnic jerks then as I got more tired,they got worse. Then when I woke up I couldn't breathe.i then got lightheaded and I had to drink water.I still haven't slept because I can't breath when I wake up.Please help!🙏
Hi Jake,
Firstly, no medical advice here! Talk to your if you’re concerned about your health.
Now lots of things can be scary when it comes to sleep - this playlist goes over how to approach sleep-wake transition events. Even though it’s focused on jerks and awareness, it applies to all of these types of events.
Hypnic jerks, hypnic awareness and other common issues.
th-cam.com/play/PL6RQ1GS7B1ci1B__oGwLvLaJ9Da1lmIKs.html
Let us know how things go Jake!
I have these jerks even though I’m not tired ? Is it still called this or would it be related to seizures ? It’s like I almost fall when I have them . All of them are 95% massive body jolt .
Hi Elliana, no medical advice here of course, always checking with your doctor when concerned about your health! This said it’s common to have whole body jolts, it’s also common to have them when not tired. In fact often we have them when we are hyperaroused, in this nervous state, and we are the opposite of tired. Check out playlist, it’s in the description of any new video, I think it can help much!
Over 10hrs trying to sleep.... I tried ignoring them but didnt seem to work.. sigh. Another sleepless day.
Hang in there Dela, it’s an unpleasant way to learn… painful but when we see that the trying is why sleep doesn’t happen, that leads to where we want to be
I didn't start getting these until after I had covid 2 years ago and been dealing with this since. What's strange is they'll be gone for months and come back. I have tried every kind of supplement to ease these. And only one thing has ever worked successfully. But unfortunately it's alcohol. I'm trying cbd lately to see if that may work instead.
Hang in there James. What often can be tricky is that sometimes it’s our attempts to control that comes back after it’s been gone for months… we have a playlist on Hypnic jerks and awareness that I hope will help. Be in touch!
Even I’m getting it will it go away or we have to do some thing
When we no longer try to stop it, it bothers us less and less until we don’t notice
Is it normal to get im worried thinking it is some neurological problems
Adding all these hyperarousal videos to a playlist. I'm going to guess this is the problem you run into most? Building a sleep drive is so easy(gas), but trying to let go of the hyperarousal(brake) is like mission impossible.
You’re seeing it very clearly, sleep drive is easy, and it’s almost never the issue, exactly… hyperarousal is the tricky one because it’s so paradoxical, the more you want it to go away, the more it builds…
I have many analogies on this topic and I think this below is the most helpful and practical I’ve come up with. Oh and by the way, a hyperarousal playlist is a great idea, will do this at some point soon!
Our brains communicate with us using various signals. Anxiety is a signal that there’s something we should look out for that may potentially hurt us. Pain signals to us that we are getting hurt and we should do something to avoid harm. All our emotions and physical sensations are signals.
Now there’s never anything wrong with the signal itself. For example if someone is afraid of spiders, the fear is totally appropriate, because the brain thinks that there’s a real threat.
Now what happens often however is that we start looking at the signals as the problem, not seeing that it’s the confusion that is what we should look at!
For example, we may start to think that anxiety (a signal) is something that we shouldn’t have so much of. Then what happens is that we try to get away from this signal, which to the brain means… we aren’t hearing the signal!
What does the brain do when we aren’t hearing? It sends more of the signal!
Now the question becomes this - the signals often are very unpleasant (which is of course the point!) so how to have less signal?
It’s to show the brain that we hear the signal.
We do this by being willing to experience the discomfort without judgement, without trying to make it stop, just acknowledging it without action.
When the brain sees that we are hearing the signal, it stops signaling!
So how can we listen in practical reality? Here are three ways!
1 Thought download
Write your thoughts and feelings down for 10 minutes daily at a specific time. With no intention but to show the brain we are listening. This can really give the brain an outlet and you can find that it starts postponing warning you until this time.
2 Going there in the mind
Imagine the scenario the brain is trying to warn you about. This is a bit scary, but really shows that you’re listening! For example if the brain says “what if I you get fired?” then you can imagine this in detail. The call from your boss, leaving the work place etc.
When we are willing to experience something if even just in our minds, then the brain sees that we listen.
3 The Aha method
I think this is very practical and effective. When you have a stressful thought you go “Aha! My brain is trying to warn be about losing my job. I see what’s happening here” or “Aha! My bear is racing, that’s normal and expected when there’s some fear!”
Literally any thoughts or emotions or physical sensations of hyperarousal can be met with an “Aha!”. It’s a very practical way of listening.
I just copied and pasted that to your other replies great response. I was just looking over my CBT-I notes and suggestions from the local psychologist. It would of been nice if the first session would of went right into hyperarousal. I already knew about the 15 minute rule, and sleep restriction. He did help me, but I feel some of the sessions were just talking about things I already knew, and like we both agree sleep drive is easy to get going. Here is the list of things he suggested for getting the hyperarousal lower
-Progressive muscle relaxation
-Sensory awareness meditation
-Breathing awareness
-Leaves on a stream meditation
-Notebook for writing down the worries for the day (which you also mentioned)
-Wind down routine (you mentioned this in your book)
-Use the bed for sleeping only
-The 15 minute rule (I know how you feel about this, and I never liked it myself)
I tried all the different types of meditations. They made me feel calm sure, but once in bed the hyperarousal took over, and if I tried to do any type of mediation during the hyperarousal it over powered it. Then of course the anxiety gets higher, and I feel a bit lost as to how can I get this hyperarousal down so I can sleep? Then it repeats and repeats. At this point I usually get out of bed. The hyperarousal is just too strong to try and lay there and fall asleep.
Glad they made sense Sean, and you know… I think these things you listed are very very tricky… they can soo easily become efforts of trying to become calm.
But it’s pretty easy to teach them, which I think is why they are common. Teaching that hyperarousal increases the more we try to get it down.. this is trickier, but i think it leads to peace for sure.
I think if you study the success stories and the content here.. it will click, there will be some magical moment when you surrendered, you didn’t try to lower the hyperarousal, and you had some peaceful sleep…. And then it gets easier…. Hang in there!
Thank you Daniel. I have your "This is Natto" book coming this weekend. I will be sure to start watching more of the success stories. This week I was very positive towards myself. I'll be honest it's not easy when you're half asleep(zombie mode). I count the work nights because that's when I have the most trouble(Sunday-Thursday). I had three rough nights this week, but I did sleep some every night, and to me that is a huge plus. I will have to see how next week goes. I hope it slowly gets better. I did the timeless window, and no more sleep log. I set my alarm for the morning, and turn off all devices that show the time such as my phone, and computer hours before I decide to go to bed. I even have some tape over the clocks in my kitchen.
I wonder if this happens in certain parts of the world. I regret Learning what sfi is. Cuz now my anxiety shows me the symptoms.
HECTIK 530 You know many people in the community here have said that when they learned about certain symptoms - they started having them! Just good to know that this isn’t uncommon..
Ooo, how I regretted learning about it too! But trust me you don’t have it because you’d have a cognitive decline if you had it. Also, it’s not quite fare to call it insomnia because when insomnia is driven by anxiety and depression, sfi is pretty serious lethal disease. You wouldn’t be able to worry and have anxiety if you had sfi. People with sfa show pretty serious mental decline
Elena Bartlett so just to reiterate, sfi DOESN’T start with insomnia? Cuz ever since I heard of this, my sleep has gotten Atrocious. This past week has been horrible for my sleep. I’m only 17 and shouldn’t be worrying if I have this. But even when I tell myself I don’t, im still utterly terrified of it. Can u give me some more insight? Especially on the first few symptoms?
HECTIK 530 It does start with difficulty sleeping but not ONLY difficulty sleeping. You wrote “ever since I heard of this”, and I think it is the key why you have trouble sleeping, you’re simply scared. As far as I know early symptoms of Sfi include difficulty sleeping, AS WELL as cognitive decline. Correct me if I’m wrong Daniel. You’d be having motor difficulties and start developing dementia. I know how scary it is, but I went through this and I was relieved after I found Dr Erichsen’s channel. If you need to chat, let me know
Hi Hectic and Elena - you know, I would listen to this latest video in the ffi/sfi playlist, that playlist is linked to in all recent videos. Kasper describes his mom’s sfi, and it is very clear that what we’ve said all along on this channel is true: it’s not an insomnia.
Yes, sleep was off for her early on, for a week weeks - but it wasn’t insomnia. It wasn’t the struggle with sleep, the anxiety, the what if thoughts. And, it was obvious to doctors and family members that something was wrong. She was diagnosed with Parkinson’s disease early.
So again, insomnia is when you struggle, you’re anxious, you try things to sleep and they don’t work, with sfi, you don’t have that so imo, it’s definitely not an insomnia
hi there, I have been struggling with this for about two months now, on and off, I am taking melatonin and hydroxyzine as needed, they do help, though when my anxiety is intense neither will work, I will sleep intermittently 2-4 hrs in total. I say anxiety but it is not too bad during the day, only when I have insomnia it makes everything worse. In this two months, I have periods where I feel I am back to normal. Also, mine is a little bit different than awareness of falling sleep, but hyper aware of everything, little sound, muscle twitching, will scare me awake. Any information from anyone will be appreciated! 🙏🙏
Hi Aaron,
Sorry to hear about the struggle but glad you are here. You know, of course it can be scary to see that emotions cannot be controlled (when anxiety is intense nothing will work) but it can also be soo liberating and even more helpful - when we no longer try to control anxiety, it fades… and so do all the hyper vigilance and other signs of hyperarousal we have…
Spend some time here learning and I think this will be more and more clear…
Again glad you’re here and let us know how things go.
@@thesleepcoachschool8192 Thank you. I set a fixed sleep window and follow good sleep hygiene. I am trying to convince myself if I only sleep 2 hours, so be it. My question is should I continue to take medication like melatonin and hydrOXYzine? I noticed they helped me sleep, but didn’t really solve this startled awake issue.
@aaronzhao2 anytime, and I’d say when we see that medication can’t make us sleep, it often starts becoming less relevant to us whether we take them or not… and when something isn’t important to us, then there’s less pressure and sleep happens by itself
So pretty much sfi first onset of symptoms are ataxia and cognitive decline? Not insomnia?
Yes, I understand this as a neurodegenerative disorder. I think it is obvious to friends/family early on that something is objectively wrong. Insomnia is being puzzled, frustrated, anxious about sleep, so I think SFI has nothing to do with insomia really...
I have this and health anxiety which makes me afraid I will get illnesses or die because of lack of sleep.
Should I get out of bed and do cbti with this or just accept it lay in bed and try to sleep?
This is a pretty new phenomenon to me I had it in january took meds for a couple of months got off the meds again and was able to sleel for a few months now its bad and I want to stay off meds this time
Hi there,
I’d say check the This is Natto playlist, basically we say it’s not important to get out of bed, or to stay in bed, it’s intent that matters
Hi curious what meds did you take back in January?
Mirtrazapin worked like a charme but is no solution to the problem sadly.
But I am way better atm without meds 5-7 hours a night@@TechConnectMedia
@booba1008 Thank you for replying! Did any non-medication method or supplements that helped you this time? I am really struggling with this right now, it almost feels a reflex reaction at this point than my anxiety.
sadly there is no easy way out you have to face the anxiety and some sleepless nights that come with it but it gets easier over time@@TechConnectMedia
I do nothing. It worked for me in the past, but it isn't working for me now. I'm getting barely any sleep and I'm not functioning. I'm at a loss for what to do. If it keeps going like this I don't think I'll keep living.
Kyle, so so sorry to hear about how difficult things have been… hang in there and know that peaceful sleep really comes from nothing. But when we try to do nothing, then we’re actually doing something. Nothing has turned into something. It’s a bit paradoxical that I hope you will make sense. Hang in there and be in touch, let us know how things go Kyle
I don't know what I can do differently.
Hi Kyle,
I know this can sound like an unhelpful riddle, but when we look for something we can do differently… there’s sort of a baked in assumption that there’s something we can “do” when peace of mind and peaceful sleep comes from non doing… I think if you spend a little time here learning it can make more and more sense Kyle
I've gone down the non-doing route. It has worked in the past, but currently it isn't.
It took me a long time to get to a point of letting go when I sleep, and that made a big difference in getting me past a lot of insomnia hurdles, including hypnic jerks.
But now it simply isn't working. 'Letting go' and 'not doing anything' just leads to jerk after jerk after jerk with no relief for hours and hours into the night. Night after night after night.
I'm not getting panic attacks from them.
I'm not getting up and moving around after experiencing them.
I'm letting them do what they want.
And they simply don't stop.
Hi Kyle, thanks for sharing and you know, maybe check Insomnia insight #490, it talks about the level we want to expose ourselves too… hope it can help, hang in there
Is it normal with insomnia to have them repeat all night long every time you’re almost sleep?
Hi PBC, this isn’t uncommon as hyperarousal is maintained the more we try to suppress it and the more we think something strange is happening.
Something else that can help to know about are sleep wake transition events.
Here’s more on these:
th-cam.com/play/PL6RQ1GS7B1ci1B__oGwLvLaJ9Da1lmIKs.html
Great video!!! I just wanted to ask: how do you do nothing when hyperawareness comes up but not forcing yourself to do nothing?
Thanks Ella! This is one of those tricky questions. It’s so true that when we don’t try to make hyper awareness go away, that’s when it fades. But how does that happen?
I think a combination of awareness and kindness really can help. Meaning, when you experience this hyper awareness, you can meet it with “aha, this hyper awareness comes from my brain trying to keep me safe from danger, it’s just a bit confused. There’s no real danger, only the perceived danger of being awake”. This is awareness.
Now some times a thought like “why is this hyper awareness still happening?!” may happen, this thought represents a desire to get rid of the hyper awareness, and we can meet this with kindness rather than self criticism. “It’s natural to not want to experience things that are unpleasant, I don’t need to criticize myself for this”.
I think this can help much.
@@thesleepcoachschool8192 thanks so much Daniel! As always super helpful.
@@thesleepcoachschool8192 Hey Daniel, I also wanted to ask you if it’s common that in the first stages of recovery you feel like you don’t sleep really deeply? Before insomnia I always felt like I slept so deeply and it’s not that I am trying to force that or anything, I’m completely at peace even with sleeping a small amount of hours or not at all. Just wanted to know if you heard about that before and if that’s a thing.
Best, Ella
Hi! Yes it’s very common. There’s an experience I call hyper sleep, it can be helpful to look at:
Hyper sleep is when your sleep is infused with hyperarousal. It’s like driving a car with the brake pushed down. Sleep drive and hyperarousal are both present and you can have vivid, bizarre dreams, you can’t tell if you were awake or you slept, you spent the whole night in superficial sleep state or that you time travelled (time skips ahead but you’re not sure you slept).
The first thing to know is that hyper sleep is super common and a part of the journey. Nothing strange or unusual! It’s again simply some hyperarousal making sleep superficial.
Secondly, you sleep more than it seems when you have hyper sleep! Just knowing this can often be reassuring.
Most importantly, when you know the above and don’t respond, just let it be so to speak, these experiences fade along with the hyperarousal.
@@thesleepcoachschool8192 Hi Daniel, I wanted to ask another question. Is it common to fall back into insomnia after a breakup? Did you hear that before?
I hate when this happens because I then become fully awake.
I hear Ann.. there’s a playlist on hypnic jerks and similar events, hope this will help
When I close my eyes I'm aware that ok I'm sleeping , I'm going and i get stress i breath but it dosent work i stand up and eat a sleep phill to not think anymore
Hi Negin,
You know this sounds like what we talk about in this video.
But there’s more on this here:
th-cam.com/play/PL6RQ1GS7B1ci1B__oGwLvLaJ9Da1lmIKs.html
Also, whenever we look at something to make us sleep, like breathing exercises for example, it can create a pressure “I hope this works” that keeps us from sleeping.
When we no longer attempt to sleep, it happens by itself.
For example, if we take a pill and think “good, I took the pill, now I don’t have to do anything” - that, the absence of trying to sleep, that’s the magic!
@@thesleepcoachschool8192 thank you doctor 🙏🙏🙏🙏
Doctor is it ok that I scare from being unconcious ? I get stress about this specially for sleeping🙏 now I have it . Here its 10 at night at I'm thinking about being unconcious. My mother say that it's because you are silly 😂😂 but I'm not I really have stress
@@neginjamshidi7381 Hi Negin, you know I think your mom is onto something! So so much of these fears we have are stress, worry.
What you describe here sounds like what we call somniphobia. Check Talking insomnia 54 and Insomnia insight 393 for more!
Instead of jerks i tremor. My head feels like it shakes is this a similar thing?
Hi Nadine,
No medical advice of course, but this very much sounds like one of the many many ways in which we can experience being scared…
@@thesleepcoachschool8192Hi Coach Daniel, can we still apply the concept of 'not doing anything' in this case? Just let it pass?
Oh yes, I think this is always something helpful Louella
I would love to say one thing, insomnia acting alone, and insomnia being the symptom of depression or bipolar disorder are way different. first of all, you’d 100% rather have insomnia by itself. bipolar insomnia is horrible and results in mania and delusions. People with normal insomnia experience fatigue but they eventually fall asleep. depressive and bipolar insomnia is ruthless and lasts for years even with clinical treatment.
The last 2 days when I feel myself about to fall asleep I feel like I can’t breathe and I panic 😞 this happens all night long..
Sorry to hear this, there are so so many sleep-wake transition events that can be really scary, often learning about one (like jerks for example) can help with all of them, hang in there
This happens to me all the time. I feel my breathing pause as I'm about to transition into being fully asleep. Then, my body sends a huge jolt of adrenaline straight to my heart. My heart starts pounding hard and terrifies me into thinking I'm going to suffer a heart attack or stroke. This happens repeatedly many nights, such as last night, and leaves me very sleep deprived, which only worsens the symptoms. I try to welcome and accept them, but when they keep happening at high intensity, it's extremely difficult. It feels dreadful!
Hey how are you now?
I get hypnic jerks whenever I fall asleep
Hi there, check our playlist on this!
Ah hypic awareness ! One of the main causes behind my struggles to fall asleep. Yeah you really cannot do anything other than letting go and try and close ur eyes to sleep again.
Remembered the plane landing analogy from this.Will get there one day hopefully.
You will!!
Have u recovered Akshay
this past 3 days i only get 2 hours asleep bc my body always wake up every 2 hours. i usually can go back to sleep after but this one dont. i give up the whole night and still cant go to sleep and i end up sleeping for 2 hours in the morning. i mentally exhausted, i dont even have the energy to imagining something fun last night while im trying to sleep.
heres what i can do to describe my brain, while im trying to sleep my thoughts will travel my brain. the top of my brain usually the best place for me but i will be aware and waking up constantly, the bottom part of my brain is when i truly letting go all this but i will get jerks and not breathing well.
for 2 months ive been dealing with insomnia i never been like this. even when my anxiety and hyperarousal kicks in after a sleepless night i end up sleeping again bc i was so tired and my brain shutting down without i even knowing. but this one is different i was so tired physically and mentally that i just gave up and still not sleeping. i hate to say this but i became more suicidal.. but i dont wanna follow that bc i have family that i care.
Hi Fiona,
Very sorry to read these lines. You know the mind is so powerful, it thinks it has to save you from being awake and it does ANYTHING it can come up with to make sure you’re not becoming hurt.
You know what I’ve said to a lot of people lately, when you don’t have that mental energy to do something enjoyable when you’re awake at night, then perhaps mindfulness will help. Just observing thoughts and feelings without our judgement, from a detached outside perspective...
Something just to consider... hang in there Fiona
The Sleep Coach School thankyou! what im confused here i dont have any thoughts but my brain feels so tight, so idk what to accept on my brain bc i have nothing on there ??
You know what, it’s very confusing! It’s pretty common for someone to go “but I’m not anxious!”. It’s very strange when you don’t experience any particular thoughts and you’re still up all night.
For some, there is a wonder wall. The puzzlement itself is enough to create sneaky hyperarousal that keeps sleep from happening.
Other times it can be a concern about a Type two error.
Let me share something from my coaching manual:
Type two concern
Definition: When a student is wary of committing the type two error of failing to believe a true condition.
Context: Using statistical terminology can be helpful in explaining the workings of the mind’s safety center to a student. Insomnia in itself can be expressed as a type one error or a “false alarm”. A type one error occurs when the mind’s safety center identifies wakefulness at night as a threat that needs to be addressed. A type two error occurs when a true threat is failed to be believed in, and a concern about having committed a type two error can drive Desire and lead the student towards atto. Examples of when a student has a Type two concern is when the student expresses that they are not worried but still are sleeping very little. The student in this scenario is afraid that they have missed something that could be problematic. Something that may be a clue to why they have insomnia and/or could represent a true threat to their mental/physical health.
It may be helpful to the coach to use the familiar story of the boy who cried wolf. When the boy cried wolf and the villagers responded, a type one error was committed. There was no true threat but the villagers believed there was. When the boy cried wolf and they did not respond, a type two error was committed. There was indeed a true threat that the villagers ignored to the demise of the boy.
Key insight: It is important to educate the student that the mind’s safety center deploys any strategy at its disposal to keep the student safe from harm. Doubting that insomnia can be due to hyperarousal (that may not be perceived) represents the mind’s concern about committing a type two error.
Let me know if this makes sense Fiona
Hey how are you doing now? Are you still sleeping only 2 hours?
I thought I have a neurologic disease
Hi Bianca, definitely check wirh your doctor! This said, often the fear of having a disease is why we have trouble sleeping…
I feel like I'm in "The Godfather" when suffering from this.. Because "just when I thought I was out, they pull me back in".
I've been suffering with this for months, sometimes I'm able to just accept it for what it is and manage to sleep relatively well for a few weeks, then out of a sudden the thought of not being able to sleep creeps into my mind for a second and then boom. Can't sleep again. I keep waking up with these jerks on my legs or shoulders... when it's fine it happens like 3, 4 times and I finally end up sleeping but some nights they keep happening again and again for 3 hours until it completely breaks my will to keep trying to sleep.
Hi Victor,
You know, I’ve never heard this quote in this context… but it makes so much sense..
I think listening to Ali in Talking insomnia #52 could help. Basically when we sleep better and think we figured it out… we have some more trouble, until we give up, the will to fight is gone, and we sleep better and think we figured it out…
Hang in there! You already have so much understanding, you’ll arrive where you want to be Victor