An Idiot’s Guide to Hybrids: Why you’re better off going Electric!
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 6 มิ.ย. 2024
- Are you considering buying a hybrid car but can't tell a MHEV from a PHEV? Are you baffled by allegedly 'self-charging hybrids'? Are you torn between going hybrid or electric, and aren't sure which would suit you better? Robert and Jack are on hand to decode the confusing world of hybrids and explain why you might just be better off committing to a fully electric vehicle instead.
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Timestamps:
00:00 Why don’t we cover hybrids?
01:24 Remember the Prius?
03:39 Mild hybrids
04:29 Self-charging/full hybrids
06:46 Plug-in hybrids
10:04 YOUR questions answered
10:20 BEVs cheaper?
12:00 More peace of mind?
13:35 Dealerships misinforming?
15:44 ‘Electrified’ is too vague!
17:30 Yer a wizard Jack!
17:57 is ANY hybrid better than ICE?
19:23 if BEV isn’t an option?
21:12 TL;DR
22:19 Ode to range extenders
23:04 The one hybrid Robert fancies
23:27 And if you have been…
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#Hybrids #PHEVs #Self-charging-hybrids #HybridvsElectric - ยานยนต์และพาหนะ
Robert's face is so expressive. "What, in the office?" Faint disgust.
Absolutely eloquent. Love it. You should be an actor, Bob.
The kid has potential!
I KNOW! - I think he'd be great playing something like, say a mechanoid with a rubber face...or something...!?
Just an idea...
@@andymccabe6712 Nah...he'd need to change the voice
You'd think he would jump at the idea of making a video in the office...no energy whatsoever wasted on travelling anywhere.
Well, I had traveled to the office . . . . but I take your point
If a PHEV fits your driving needs then it's great! We have two Chevy Volts. They go 50 miles without even starting the gas engine. Some of us still can't afford a Tesla, BTW.
We have a Chevy volt that uses fuel a couple of times a year. It’s brilliant tech.
I drove my Volt 4k miles before filling the gas tank. It cost much less than a new Leaf after incentives. I get a max range of 72 miles on battery, but love the option of taking a longer trip with the gas. A small inexpensive phev is an excellent entry point to EVs!
@@fairman14065 I've recently bought a 2019. Sometimes it will go 60 miles on a charge. My wife's 2013 forced her to burn half a tank because the gas was 6 months old. The computer keeps track of it.
Sshhh, Fully Charged don't like those kind of opinions.
That's essentially it. An EV with 300 miles or so of range which is what the Ioniq gets and it's more on the affordable side of things
If I get a used PHEV, it's at least cheaper than buying an Ioniq. For me, a PHEV would be great for commuting and then also driving to my parent's house. I am however talking about buying used PHEVs more than buying new ones
I see it as you just have around £15-20 worth of fuel in there (with today's prices), and you don't have to worry about the fuel going stale
I’ve driven a Honda Clarity PHEV for 3 years which has been a wonderful transition. It has allowed me to drive 90% electric while waiting for full electric car technology to mature with options from many manufacturers.
Live in a house perchance? And, majority of your journeys are local, maybe? Without this information it is hard to tell whether this would stand for "most car owners at the moment".
@@aacmove Yes, I live in a standalone house and 90% or more of my driving is local. In addition, I have a large solar array and a level two charger. What works for me does not work for everyone.
PHEV is great due to incomplete infrastructure for electric car charging stations. In the city I live, Hyundai has a rescue service for their make EV owners. When your Hyundai EV runs out of battery and stranded in road, you can phone the emergency service. They will drive a rescue car to your location and use the rescue car's battery to charge your car's battery. You do not need that if you drive a PHEV.
I so relate to this. I’ve always been interested in cars. And so it was natural that I read and researched the technologies over the years. This year my wife and I were in the market for a new car (after not having one for 3 years after moving to Denmark). And we bounced back and forth between PHEV and EV. And I spent nights evaluating, until one day, we just decided, let’s take the plunge. “Let’s buy an EV”, we said. For all it’s pros and all it’s cons. It’s THE way forward. And now we’re waiting delivery of our new Polestar 2. Shout out to Bobby L because his review of that car, and calling it close to the best he’s driven was one of the things that pushed me to take the plunge! Well done!
@@iscadean3607MY22? Same here! Love it!
I work for a wind energy company & I'll be getting a company car soon... And I will be asking for a PHEV.
My work place is about 10 miles away, so on a normal day i'll be doing 20 miles of commuting, and have the car charged while I'm at work. This means pure electric commuting.
However, my job also requires me to do one or two longer trips in the 350 to 400 miles range every week.
This is a use scenario which I still simply wouldn't be comfortable with in a BEV, especially because being half an hour late to a meeting is just not OK, and I wouldn't have a clue whether the companies and towns I'll be headed to have fast chargers nearby (today the most likely answer is still no).
PHEVs are getting decent electric range nowadays. As an engineer my biggest gripe with them is that they're much heaver than normal petrol cars; but they are getting lighter.
So yes, BEVs are better from a technological standpoint, but in my case, they simply aren't the right option. So PHEVs are a great proposition for some scenarios. And it's a good thing we get the choice.
Sadly, PHEV drivers rarely charge their cars and simply drive them for tax benefits. And that is retarded.
Maybe they'll be charging them more as fuel prices spike. On my Prius Prime, my EV miles are still $0.02/mile, while the ICE miles have gone from $0.05/mile to $0.075/mile. A very survivable jump in cost, but still a good incentive to plug in every time I'm home.
I have friends who live in RVs, whose diesel costs have gone from $0.42/mile to $0.70/mile. Every one of them cries about it when they put $150 to $250 of fuel at a time into their 8-10mpg vehicles now. Those who were planning big trips where they'd have to do that several times to get to a destination, have almost all decided to make 2022 a "less travel, spend more time in each place" year.
@@EfficientRVer Many PHEVs are company cars, I think there should be an incentive for charging them, otherwise the driver isn't paying the gas so why would (s)he care ? I have a gas company car so I know the feeling.
My previous car was a Prius since I wanted something more economical for my daily commute round the M25. I used to play the "how long can I go without the petrol engine cutting in" game and it was absolutely my gateway drug to a full BEV. The Prius was replaced with a Tesla Model 3 SR+ which has fully satisfied those cravings for a smooth, quiet electric drive.
thats the crux that a lot of people miss. BEVs are SO much nicer to drive. I drive locally most of the time on twisty country roads. In full regen/1 pedal drive mode its so much better than constant gear shifting. On the motorway with the adaptive cruise its more relaxing on a long drive. ( ive driven more than 15 hours in a day and wasnt wrecked the next day. Same journey in a manual petrol and im not recovered until 24 hours later. Stop/start traffic the car just sorts it out and i occasionally just have thumb the button on the steering wheel to get it going. Manual petrol you are considering a hip replacement op after an hour or so.
Glad to see some love for the i3 REx, ours is fantastic. Our battery does 55-60 miles at this time of year, but even so, we haven't used the petrol engine for months, but crucially it's there for long journeys where it's impractical to recharge 4 or 5 times. We simply fill up the tank and the battery, fill up a 10 litre jerrycan, do 140 miles, then recharge the battery and refill the tank at the same time. Easy peasy!
Great car , Im looking at a late rex or an ID3 as I regularly drive 600 miles with a ferry crossing in the middle and I don't want to miss the ferry because a charger is broken. Rex is a great solution.
You've convinced me! Going for a Kia e-Niro. As a long time Red Dwarf fan, now searching for my next car, I was delighted to find this series. And as a newly converted Electric car fan, I have subscribed and will keep watching! Oh and if Robert happens to see this.... Best delivered line in all of RD: "I'm fine thank you Susan!"
This is one of the channels that encouraged me to purchase my Nissan Leaf in 2015. At 131,000 miles I opted to replace the 24 kWh battery pack with a 62 kWh pack last March. Great reliability and operational affordability.
I owned 3 "self-charging" hybrids in succession. To an old petrol-head, they proved to me that I wanted a full electric car. Now I have a full BEV but it would not have happened if the hybrids hadn't persuaded me how good electric power, albeit for a mile or less, really could be.
That’s a fair point !
What a pity you are so “slow on the uptake” Shane !
I have currently PHEV and most likely will jump to BEV. I bought PHEV 1.5 years ago as BEVs had (and still have) a bit too many limitations from my point of view. But we have Audi Quattro Avant (=my wife's car) which we can use for longer trips, towing etc. so I should be able to tolerate downsides of BEV in my car and use Audi when BEV is not good.
Also PHEV also 'educated' me that generally EV is pretty good path forward, while current cars still have a bit too may downsides.
Also I think that all new petrol/diesel cars should be hybrids and gradually (probably quite fast) things will shift to EVs. Having hybrids in between will ease up limited supply of batteries and will very fast reduce pollution.
@@mho0 if you are conscientious enough to charge your PHEV daily then you'll find a BEV way less hassle!
@@Hyfly13 I think you are right.
@@mho0 You make some fair points, but we recently had "Hybrid Gate" where it turned out PHEV's pollute far more the manufacturers claimed. And the reason really is simple, but difficult to solve. Combustion engine cars are very dirty and polluting until the CAT has a chance to heat up and burn off the pollution, extra petrol that doesn't get burned, particulates, etc.
In a PHEV, the engine kicks in for seconds or barely a minute or two at time. So, it really never gets the CAT up to operating temperature, which means the car engine runs in the cold fully polluting mode pretty much the entire time.
As the video makes a point of, most people transition to electric cars through Hybrids. They go combustion, hybrid, plug in hybrid, BEV, or combustion, hybrid, BEV.
So, their usefulness appear to be mostly just as a hand holding device to get people to full BEV's. After a year or two with PHEV, most people start wondering why they are hauling around this large engine and transmission they really never use. Add in the far better performance of BEV's and they end of losing the combustion engine.
For me as a petrolhead the BMW 330e was the perfect exit drug. I got 330i performance, absence of range anxiety, a very sophisticated integration of the electric motor into the drivetrain and I managed to achieve 80 mpg and 4.5 mi/kWh on average driving roughly 2/3 in electric mode.
But as you said, that PHEV was my first and my last of its kind and now I´m driving an i3s BEV.
I also bought the 330e but a year ago when not many BEVs took my fancy. Charging infrastructure was not brilliant for my trips to see family 450 miles away. My trips are mainly 37 mile round trips three times a week and for the 17 months it has done 11,200 miles and at least 9500 were on battery. My mind is now made up and the BMW i4 40 Sport is on order due June’ish. There is strong demand for the 330e so great trade price. A good experience and EV education.
@@douglaswares8296 Mine was an F30, so only 12 to 18 mile pure electric range from 5.7 kWh gross battery size. Yet with charging every night I was able to cover most of my daily driving on electric power alone. I4 40 sounds great, but the new 4-series is a bit too big for my taste and my needs.
@@klausm5460 ideal size for me. Fits the golf clubs and the golf trolley nicely 😄
@@douglaswares8296 Kudos to you for choosing classic BMW proportions and not going for the X cars then...
@@klausm5460 I posted my own comment 30 minutes after you... my thoughts are the same as yours, except that I could live with the i4 40, but can't afford it! :o(
To be honest, I already own a BEV with over 350km of range on full battery and I LOVE it, but I am considering changing to a PHEV only because of limits on longer trips! Range anxiety, all the calculations of routes and stops and finding a fast charger, and a charger at the destination and and and... yes it is getting much better, but it is still just too much hustle!
Then you need a 500km one or more. Yes change of use behaviour is necessary. We can't have our cake and eat it too.
That too is a concern for me. Every summer I liked going to the mountains, but it is VERY rural. I've also heard of inadequate recharging sites and congestion almost anywhere. Besides, most electricity is still generated from coal, gas or petroleum anyway.
I replaced my Prius with a Rav4, both hybrids but now I have headroom for my mattress in the back ... and a motorized back gate so I can easily enter/exit rather than crawl through. Downside for larger size is less MPG, but still better than ICE only.
I view HYBRID as better than ICE of course but the better answer until the world can handle a billion BEVs.
The Coffee Loop: For customers, it's GOOD to have choices. In time, BEV's and batteries will get better and cheaper, and it will become a no-brainer, as you can get something like 500 mile range for a reasonable price AND charging stations will be ubiguitous. In the mean time, during the transition stage, which will last decades, it's great to have choices. Driving a PHEV is MUCH better than driving a pure ICE, re the environment.
@@markamanns5145: First, VERY little electricity is generated from burning oil. Second, more and more electricity is generated from clean sources each year, and from natural gas instead of coal, which is much cleaner than coal.
If you want to drive hybrid -- dandy. But don't spread the usual denier falsehoods about the electric system to justify it -- it's bad enough with people that lie for a political agenda. (Not saying you're lying, but you're wrong re the electricity. Don't take my word for it -- the data is all over the internet on reliable sites like the EIA, the IEA, government energy sites, etc.
@@markamanns5145 Just well the "Authorities" have twigged that BEV technology is a dead end.
It's the charging time anxiety, range anxiety and "the finding of a charger" anxiety.
There's no way UK can provide enough electrical energy to keep up with recharging vehicles what with the legislation requiring the reduction of fossil fuels for heating and cooking.
You'll have noticed the increased references to Hydrogen fuel ... and the waning enthusiasm from Boris on "his" massive battery construction projects.
Plus the growing confidence in HVO fuels. Vegetable based fuel with nary a fossil to be seen.
If, as is becoming clearer (!) by the day, HVO burns more cleanly then the wording of getting rid of "fossil fuels" allows for the use of "compression ignition" engines anyway.
HGVs have been running on HVO for over two years and there appears to no pollution issues as yet.
What works for me is a combination of an e-bike for short journeys, and a 2nd hand ULEZ compliant petrol car for the occasional longer trip (only about 1,000 miles a year).
I don't need an electric car but, if I did, I'd want to buy the new X-bus, with the solar roof that would probably mean that I might never need to "plug in".
Great discussion format, by the way; I'd like you guys to do more videos like this.
Loving this conversational format.
Great to hear! We may mix a few more into the schedule
I agree. I would love to see a more of them mixed in with the regular content
Saaaame, Robert’s personality
About three years ago I was torn between getting a hybrid or pure electric. Your first ever video on the Fully Charged channel persuaded me to go for fully electric. I’ve never regretted it. I’d recommend anyone who isn’t sure to watch it also…
I’m glad you brought up the issue with dealerships not wanting to sell you an EV. I went to a Kia dealership in Workington, Cumbria to look at the eNiro and was told, "oh you don’t want one of them, get the hybrid ". I was stunned by that one. But not stunned by the ignorance of dealerships in this county. I will never purchase another car here. Just as an example, my current car, from a couple of weeks of ownership the sat nav was saying I was driving in the Irish Sea but some 30 miles or so. My dealer took the car in several times and fixed nothing. When I took it is again the technician came running out to me before I had even got out of my car (I had an appointment, too) and he said "you might as well go, there’s nothing we can do - the problem is not with your car but it’s with the satellites themselves".
What utter bollocks.
So SEAT of Workington, if you’re reading this, shame on you. You’ve lost a customer.
My 2012 Prius is what got me infected with the EV bug! I loved going a mile at 35mph on total battery power (always feathering the accelerator to keep it under 40).
Fast forward to 2017 -- our power company offered $10k off MSRP on top of the $7,500 US federal tax credit and I bought a Nissan LEAF S which was so relaxing to drive -- it was so quiet, so smooth. The only issue was the range deterioration over 5 years (especially in Winter on the US east coast).
My wife got the EV bug from my LEAF and decided to purchase a 2021 Tesla Model Y. I love driving that car for the wow factor (and that is has so much nice space!), but it would be a lot of car for my 20 mile daily commute.
This year, after 5 years of LEAF ownership, the CRAZY used car market in the US and the lower price on the 2022 LEAF helped me make my decision to buy a 2022 LEAF SV, and I LOVE the driving experience!
I can't imagine ever going back to even a hybrid at this point. EV is a way of life!
EV still a baby in my country, hopefully I could drive one too in the future . . great 2nd ride for city use . .
On the money as ever gents. My father in law called me an idiot for buying an eNiro because "you'll be replacing the battery in five years and it'll cost you £20,000". Step away from the Daily Fail......
It's crazy how much traction that particular myth still gets. Unless you own an early EARLY Leaf, the battery will outlast the rest of the car.
Well now you have to wait 5 years and drive up to your father in law to show your still functional EV and 5 years of fuel savings!
PHEV are best solution for areas like western Queensland where there are very long driving distances and not a lot charging stations. it could be 200km between charging points or none at all on your route.
At the time of changing from a diesel car, an ampera was the best electric car I could afford. 28 days of the month I don’t use petrol, but for the same price I could have only got an old leaf with 80 mile range. Price is so important when having these discussions.
Still love my mild hybrid 2013 Honda Insight Facelift. Even after so many years, original IMA battery and brake pads still going strong :)!!
16-20 km/L average, 5 mins refuelling, pretty efficient city or highway and peace of mind . .
I’m happy to hear hybrids aren’t the devil. I’ve just passed my driving test, I can’t afford a new car, or a second hand electric. But I’m looking at getting a second hand Prius. Thanks for this.
After having three Prius, now a hybrid RAV 4, I can assure you that you won’t be disappointed.
Good choice under the circumstances.
Well, they sort of are the devil. It takes the emissions and environmental impacts of building a petrol car + the impacts of building an EV and putting all of that into one vehicle. While marketing will tell you differently, the environmental ROI on a product like this will have to me much longer than a BEV alone. Even if that BEV is electrified by coal. They are purposely green washed to continue business as usual for big auto and the oil companies.
That said, buying one second hand keeps it active so, it wasn't a waste to make it in the first place.
@@roguea987 Making a battery for an average BEV pollutes 40x more than the batteries for a self charging Hybrid. (Simple math, there that much bigger) Pollution of making a petrol engine is negligible compared to this. Hybrids do cut down a lot on emissions compared to normal petrol/diesel vehicles.
So for the initial pollution of making just one BEV(which replaces only one ICE vehicle), you can produce and cut down road pollution of 40 petrol/diesel vehicles by swapping them for a hybrid.
Total environmental gain is larger by the masses switching to hybrids.
Not to mention that most people still have a car no2 with ICE when they need to go somewhere on a long trip. We live in a fast paced world where people already barely have enough time to fit everything they need into a day. "Just plan on taking more time travelling" sounds good in theory, but doesn't work in reality. That's why a plug-in hybrid RAV4 is the best of both worlds. You can drive up to 75km in ev mode (almost 90km in reality) and just keep going if you need to go further.
@@sasakurtovic6850
Absolute rubbish.
For starters, the RAV4 pack is 18.1 kWh (yes, i actually checked instead of guessing)
That'll be about 30-40% the size of the average BEV.
So 3 "times the pollution" not "40"....."simple math"...duh?
Pollution to make a petrol engine (AND all the extra ancillaries!) is VERY comparable to this.
.
As for "cutting emissions".
A smaller(?) engine, pulling more weight? Is going to be under more stress. It will pollute more...... Unless it's a larger engine, but in that case what's the point?
On that subject, the RAV4 Hybrid had a *2 4 litre* engine (needed to pull the weight??😂)
....
Should we get into the pollution of simply *producing* the fuel? (NOT even burning it?)
That's one of Roberts favourites.
(Check his interview with Graeme Cooper of the National Grid)
+/- 7 kW per gallon of fuel.
Enough to drive a BEV 25-35 miles, depending on the vehicle.
That immediately comes off "the bottom line" of cost AND pollution for the EV.
.....
As I said, you're guessing.
Please don't.
The HEV really shines in courier work as you mentioned with taxis. I purchased a used Ford Escape hybrid 4 years ago & it's been excellent as a work vehicle. At least a third better fuel mileage and the vehicle idles silently without the ICE constantly on or kicks on occasionally to keep the cabin warm. My work day might be 50 mi or 300. Add in range loss for the need for heat in the winter time and it would be difficult to make an electric only fit my needs.
I really enjoyed the conversational format a lot. Thank you.
Loved this segment. I have been pure BEV since 2014 but struggle with my petrol / Desial friend and their can I have not have mild-hybrid arguments. This was a friendly discussion and informative discussion I will be pointing them towards.
You can drag around a ICE and fuel/exhaust system in a plug-in hybrid or a lot of battery capacity you aren't using all the time. It appears that the weight might be comparable between the two. If PHEVs had 50 mile electric range you could spread the batteries out across a lot more consumers. Most people don't need 300 miles of electric range. Just like most people don't need 1000 horsepower. But people are trying to knock down the plug-in hybrids in favor of battery only cars that people don't need or can't afford.
A range extender wankel engine/generator etc runs ~150lb, with higher power genset's maybe ~200lb, better than the ~1000lb for a long range battery. Mated to ~100 mile range battery this would cover pretty much all requirements; virtually all trips would be electric only. Long range will kick in the range extender. The engine also can run on hydrogen, to keep the activist greenies happy. I'd expect the car to be plug in as well to maximise flexibility.
Or don't want to pay..
Public transport is also quicker tbh. It'd be great to see all railway lines be electrified, and for the UK to have a long term goal of putting in maglev
HS2 pushes the boundaries of the kinds of speed that traditional railways support but there is a limit.. Maglev has a limit too but a much higher limit. It's just a really expensive technology.
Hopefully once Maglev becomes cheaper, we might have say 325Mph trains which would really change the UK, given how relatively small it is
@@thecraggrat My driving needs are 95 percent urban and 5 percent total desolation. When I leave the Wasatch Front and hie to my Wyoming retreat, charging stations are practically non existent. My "electric car with a range extender" (Chevy Volt) is ideal.
Car for car what is the price difference between a PHEV with say 50 mls electric range and a BEV with say 200 mls range? I think you'll find the initial purchase price is actually quite small nowadays.
GM offered the first dedicated PHEV, but with the second gen decided it was pointless. Cheaper to ditch the engine system and go full electric. So no more Volts and instead more full EVs.
With all respect, I am driving a 2013 Plug-in Prius, bought 2nd hand, coming from a Diesel Estate. I can charge at home, and every first 20 km’s is fully electric, which is most city kilometers. We currently drive around 20-25% full electric, and weekly I need to drive at least 200 km on the motorway.
I have a very good fuel economy, maintenance cost is low, and it will bridge me to when affordable 2nd hand EV’s become available.
This. They've forgotten the most sensible option for people who still cannot afford a BEV. Not gas or HEV or PHEV but any kind of 2nd hand good hybrid you can find. Don't eat the full depreciation of a new car which is going to be obsolete in 5 years.
Absolutely agree! I just bought a 2013 plugin Prius myself last week, and so far I love it. Fuel consumption so far has been phenomenally low, and if it's as reliable as my previous gen2 regular hybrid, maintenance should be good too.
Totally, I think a PHEV makes way more sense, and I think for most people it would end up being better for the environment too, since it doesn’t have the crazy embodied emissions of an BEV
@@charliebrackenbury6115
That embodied emission isn't crazy. Especially if the battery is made outside of China. Also, as the grid is getting greener, the CO2 cost of manufacturing will keep dropping.
@@andrasbiro3007 yeah, I know it’s getting better, still though, even just the mining of the rare earth metals necessary to make the cells has a huge impact compared to the metal needed to make an ICE, the nice part of a PHEV is that you can have batteries for your day to day range and then on occasion use the ICE for long distances, that way you aren’t lugging around hundreds of pounds of energy intensive batteries for the couple of times you exceed the range
I'm so happy I moved from a Yaris hybrid to a 2017 Nissan Leaf. Great and fun video. Thanks, guys.
Robert comes across as such a nice bloke. Always perky and always entertaining. A national treasure!
Me and my family are driving a Polestar 2 - also thanks to Robert‘s „exquisit“ review (thanks by the way!).
It’s our first EV, and we love it. Never loved a car before. And no range anxiety any more. Effectively saves time (charging at home, no petrol stations) and a significant amount of money!
My family and I !
I would dearly love to own a full EV but, for my average usage, they are not cost effective. When I returned to live in the UK in 2016, I bought a pre-owned 62 plate Yaris Hybrid which I adore. I don't have to pay Road Tax, my insurance is very reasonable and I get about 62 MPG. Because most of my journeys are local with an occasional long distance drive to 'the big smoke' to see my family, I've only reached about 36k on the odometer. It is economical, quiet and a delight to drive. (And yes, Robert, I only fill up once every 6-9 months and I've never had any problems with 'stale' petrol!)
I've looked at the economics of owning a secondhand EV but the figures don't stand up. At present, a pre-owned Zoe or E-up (the equivalent to a Yaris Hybrid) is just so damned expensive and, although a Nissan Leaf or Vauxhall might be relatively less expense, I don't need anything that big. So I've decided to hang on to the Yaris Hybrid and run it into the ground, although its reliability might mean this will take decades. I suppose the only 'crunch factor' will be if HMG decide that my hybrid should incur Road Tax!
As someone looking for a small/medium-sized used car, I have literally never even see any hybrids whatsoever within 100 miles of me and within my (relatively limited, but still not absolutely tiny) budget. So I'll have to make do with an ICE until the used and/or the new electric ones get cheap enough for me to afford. Which is a shame, because I'd love to be a bit greener
The best car to drive is the one you currently own. By the time you drive it into the ground, electric will be a no-brainer.
The main issue with Electric compared to PHEV that I don't feel they really got into is the price and insurance difference for an equivalent sized car. Both thr purchase cost and insurance are significantly higher for Electric vs PHEV. I'm looking into buying a new car right now and need to up size due to kids and I desperately want to convince my wife we should go electric, so I actually put a spreadsheet together of the lifetime costs including the purchase cost to try and convince her that EVs were worth it due yo the savings, but even for the cheapest family sized EV I could find with a range over 200 miles (we do a lot of driving holidays to remoteish parts of the UK) the cheapest comes out at about £26k, but I can get a low milage used Ioniq PEHV for £18k and it would take over 10 years for the lower running costs of the EV to make it a cheaper option that the Ioniq. Even frugal 1.0L Turbo petrol family cars come out cheaper than an equivalent sized EV over a 10 year period. And the massive recent energy price hikes have made that even worse. So until used EVs start becoming more comparable in price they will remain less financially viable than PHEVs on lifetime cost.
Cost is the main reason I've decided to run my current 1.2 petrol until it dies. Maintenance is higher but I can't really charge at home easily, so the cost of using rapids would be similar to petrol. We get about 50mpg on long trips. My wife uses the car for work so she really needs a range of at least 150miles. It would also cost me a few thousand to trade in for an EV hence why I'm waiting for now. I'm starting to wonder if it would work out better to buy a small cheap EV for day to day use and just keep the petrol car for long trips. Obviously it will cost more to run 2 cars but the wear will be spread out so 🤷
I like EVs so I've been thinking about this for awhile and came to conclusion that hybrids are still the way to go 'for me' because:
1. Fuel in my country costs like half in Europe but vehicles cost 3 times so my break-even point is much longer.
2. Charging infrastructures in my country is like UK 10 years ago and there's no official Tesla dealers so there's 0 supercharger. Hybrids would work better for at least a decade.
3. Houses in south east Asia don't use much electricity like in Europe so regular houses got 45A max, if I have an EV I need to upgrade the system to 100A which cost me about 2 years of fuel just to break even for new installation.
So it very much depends on how each country works and how you use the vehicle because there're too many variants and at the end of the day it's about money you spent.
With home charging, you don't need more than a few kW (3-4) for charging.
Your arguments are still valid though.
You should watch Bjorn Nyland videos, he experienced BEV in Thailand for over a month, and it went great.
There is virtually no charging in the UK its ok down London but the its of the country is stuffed
I charge my bmw i3 overnight on a normal 220v European plug.
Good comment, but not useful, since the video is for the UK. I am not talking about hybrids and EVs in Iraq, where not only there isn't electricity except from each house's diesel generator (the grid never works), but the fuel for cars is so low quality you need a giant petrol engine to use it.
@@Moses_VII Let's say this video apply to pretty much western europe.
I love you and Jack just having a conversation like this, the scripted stuff is great but I like the organic feel!
It is scripted.
@@Supernaut2000 The intro probably was but I very much doubt if the rest of it was, they talk over each other too often for it to be scripted.
@@cbcdesign001 it's a blend.
They have a generalized script with main points etc.
They are using viewers questions so they have worked out their answers, but sure, the conversation is unscripted. If that makes sense.
I've worked in TV. Some of the presenters are insanely professional.
They can even time their comment to fit a countdown that is happening in their earpiece, to the nearest second or two. Live!
I think the dynamics were far better with Robert and Jonny Smith. A big part of Fully Charged was lost when he left.
Before I say my piece, I'd like to acknowledge that what I have to say may apply to a very particular use-case, and/or may be US-centric.
So: my wife and I had put our $100 down to pre-order a Tesla Model Y. It checked off all the boxes for us, regarding what we use a vehicle for (the usual around-town stuff, plus a great deal of travel with our little pop-up camper (trailer plus all of our gear equals 1200-1300 lbs. Not a behemoth RV.) At that time we owned a Subaru Outback, which was good, but getting old and on the brink of needing expensive repairs. Then we took a long camping trip from our home in North Carolina to Ohio and Michigan. Pulling the trailer, which we had just purchased a month before, our gas mileage dropped from an average 30 mpg highway to 18-20.
I started thinking about what that would mean with the Model Y, if it dropped from 300 miles between charges to 200. Namely, much more frequent charging, turning moderate days into long ones. And then we thought about a lot of the places we plan to camp; if you get away from cities and Interstates (as one does when camping) and there are a lot of places where there are no chargers. This isn't speculation; there are apps that show where the chargers are, and there's a lot of blank space on those maps.
So we canceled our order for the Tesla, looked for the lightest weight SUV that had sufficient towing capacity and a hybrid engine, and ended up with a Toyota Highlander. In 5-10 years, when the charging infrastructure has rolled out all over America, we will re-visit that.
Were we in the UK or EU, I think the equation would be different.
Hi guys, I was talking with my local garage in Gloucestershire ( only servicing ice cars) about are egolf, and if they had plans to service EVs. They are not sadly, and believe there a fad. They’ve think hybrids are ok. They were suggesting car companies are turning there backs on EVs think it’s the wrong road to go down. They seem to quote a lot of mis-information, some of which is plucked out of the air.
I talk about the benefits of the EVs, and with some success, I see a few eyes raising. Usually the savings on driving these cars. But I see this kind of business in the distant future struggling because we know EVs and almost no servicing will ultimately be the end of this business. I will continue to discuss the pros of EVs with them, who knows, maybe one day.......
Cheers for the fantastic show, also entertaining and informative.
Thanks Jack and Robert for covering this topic, hopefully people will learn that pure BEV is best.
I was thrilled to see my tweet pop up in this video.
PHEV (if it has ~50 miles of range) is still extremely important during this transition period, at least in America, for years yet for the 10's of millions of people that can't charge at home or work. Apartments/condos, street only parking, etc. If their gasoline usage drops 80% that is still a win for the short term. Once there is level 2 (240v) charging just about everywhere we park running errands we can always be topped off and then full electric is possible for everyone. But that's a long way out in the US. My kids can't get BEV because their 20's will be all apartment living with nowhere to charge.
If you can't charge a BEV how are you going to charge a PHEV?
@@NickFoster plugging in phev at a destination, like a mall or restaurant lot means toy can top off or charge a small battery without DCFC, and come back to a charged car to get home, granted you can do that with a BEV, but you won't be able to fill a battery without a driveway. also when going long distances, in our area and use, that is common, our ID4 worked but i was hunting to be able to max range. some trips required a long break and overnight driving makes that much harder
@@saeedhossain6099 Its beacause only Tesla at the moment has the required and reliable fast charging infrastructure. With their long range version cars long trips are barely longer than with gasoline cars and more often than not the driver is the limiting factor. The other infrastructures really need to catch up in terms of charging speed and reliabilty. Luckily Tesla is slowly opening its advanced and reliable chargers to other brands, but the cars also need to get a bit better on sustained charging speeds.
@@NickFoster Hmm, surely the clue is in the classification ...
@@geiers6013 In most of the US even Tesla doesn't have the necessary infrastructure yet. You often have to base your itinerary around the charging stations. Granted, in reality this is only like 5% of your driving, but that can be a deal breaker.
I hope the Aptera does go into production this time. Light ,efficient ,compact and not too expensive BEVs are what is needed for the masses. Aptera has the advantage of solar,may never need charging,at least in the sunnier parts of the world.(like N.Z & Australia)
Yeah it is the perfect car for commuting and is deceptive in size. It looks small but actually has quite a bit of trunk space and safety wise they use a survival cell. I anticipate there will be a lot of copying going on (especially in China). If the production design does not have any major reliability or cosmetic problems after the first round go out and start racking up the km I am all in for one, plus they are all about right to repair and modularity so big win there also.
A rather brilliant concept, was under my top 3 yet-to-come SEVs (beside the Lightyear 1 from the NL and the Sion from Germany).
Living just 200 km from Sonomotor's headquarter, preferring a 4-5 seater and looking for an EV wirh a trailer hook, I finally decided (and per-ordered) the Sion.
The Lightyear would have beaten both, but for the price I'd get 5 (!) Sions or Apteras.
Oh, and finally I'm not sure when the Aptera will pass homologation for my country. (Even they couldn't tell...)
But I pretty much will stay tremendously curious about all three of them, for sure! 🤩👍
The masses? Good God, please protect us from people like Simon. I want to buy what I want and let Simon buy what he wants.
33 likes so far. Sure you can buy what you want.Have a nice life.
As far as I know, here in Germany the problem with PHEVs isn't that they go electric all the time while carrying a tank full of petrol which might go stale with them, but rather that many of them are never charged at all and their heavy battery is just extra weight to be carried by the petrol engine. Apparently is has to do with tax benefits for company cars: there is extra money to be saved if if get a PHEV over a petrol or diesel car, which is meant to incentivise electric mobility, but in reality many just take the benefit and users often don't even unpack the cable.
@17:40, the light going on above Roberts head.
perfect timing for the wand idea.
Brilliant
I really like my Kona Ev, only downside lately are the charging stations, apps don’t work properly or it won’t connect, or cuts out 10 mins into a charge. The network has to get better, old chargers have to be updated and add more boxes to the area. Big ev stations are a great idea, but the network for these has to grow quickly! Great show, love watching 😊
The Rona has slowed things down a bit i think. Chip shortages etc. Should be ok in next couple years.
Let's get a new law passed: any charging station which can technically provide power but is offline due to a software/connectivity issue _must_ offer free vend. I expect suddenly engineers will be appearing within hours rather than weeks
@@JamesScholesUK That'll put the price up for each unit to cover the offline MTTR.
I guess Tesla superchargers open to everyone will come to the UK soon as well.
@@sargfowler9603 I wouldn't care that the cost was higher if I could guarantee finding a working charger on my first try
The most outstanding feature of the Prius, and the least understood, is it's transmission. There are no belts, no clutches and it still offers 100% variable ratio.
I think there may be a clutch plate
I still find myself correcting people about that. They all think that Toyota's eCVT is like the belt drive used in mopeds 🤦♂️🤦♂️🤦♂️
@@alexdhutanu Yes, there is a kind of clutch plate but it has no actuating mechanism. I think it is there just to dampen any shock loads.
There is also NO physical changing of gears in any way. It is as mechanically unchanging and bulletproof a system as a differential. The variable effective gear ration the ICE sees is entirely created by changing the speed of the electric motors, which are varied to create the illusion of having changed gears. In reality, the gears are in a fixed relationship in a planetary gear system, with the output of course being the wheel speed, and the two inputs being electric motor speed and the two inputs being electric motor speed and ICE speed.
Interesting talk. I’ve always advocated PHEV’s over non plug in variants because of the fact that you have to use fuel to charge them, which is still more expensive than the electricity you put in to a battery.
I will be getting a golf GTE again, as most journeys are sub 30 miles but I quite regularly do a lot more. I could get a pure electric vehicle (that’s pretty ugly) for less than this will cost but couldn’t afford a full electric Vw at the moment. (I can’t afford two cars so can’t afford a smaller range EV AND a petrol car for longer journeys).
I think the fact that I can drastically cut down my emissions and fuel by doing the majority of driving electrically is great.
I love your banter chaps, very entertaining and informative. We have honda crv 2001 petrol, we dipped our toes in the new generation in 2019 and upgraded to Crv hybrid, what we like, best of both worlds, we are still drinking petrol but less so now, great ,mileage, 47-53 mpg, no worries over finding charging points, but the irony is we kept our old petrol 2001 crv, just in case the hybrid didn't work out, but it has, nearly three years down the line, we are hybrid converts and are still not convinced that a jump to a bev is right just yet. Peter
I'm really disappointed you didn't mention towing a heavy caravan or horsebox with a PHEV. I don't think n that fully electric cars are able to provide a good enough towing range yet. I drive 10-20 miles a day on average, then 1 a month a so I tow a 1500kg caravan, would love to hear some advice on what would be a good vehicle for this scenario. Currently I have a 2L diesel for the caravan and long trips and a Smart EQ for daily trips, but would be great to back to one vehicle
I have a Toyota Chr Hybrid, love it and I judge it worthwhile as I went from 35mpg in my old Mazda to 57-63mpg+ in the hybrid, hopefully the next car in a few years will be full electric, and hopefully the charging network will have improved and expanded by then.
Same here, a year ago I went from a 2009 diesel CRV to a 2017 C-HR self charging hybrid and it’s brilliant. Average 58mpg but can get into high 60’s. Yes I would like a pure electric car, but simply couldn’t afford one as what I would want is twice the price. I will keep the C-HR for a few years & then change. Point worth noting, I bought used so the car already existed and so CO2 had already been used building it.
Great video as always, I took the daunting leap and cancelled my VW Golf GTE order last week as the time had come to replace my "self charging" Toyota Corolla, Placed my order today for a Cupra Born which after watching plenty of reviews should be no problem with my current driving range and use.
It's very complicated but very interesting for us that like to discuss the variations.
There is so many fascinating ways to analyse it all. You guys covered most of my thoughts over the years as well as an ex showroom worker and enthusiast.
I also think a good car is a good car regardless of setup.
So I think there have been good and bad cars regardless of setup.
I think it would be a good idea to say which cars are the best in each category. For the time they were released it would be good to know which was the best full hybrid, mild, phev in each category from 2012.
I think full hybrid is prius
Is300h for small executive 5 door
Phev outlander for 4x4
Golf gte plug in for hatchback
BMW i8
You would only want some sports petrol cars.
Totally missed the point that people who do a few very long journeys but most of the time commute less than 30m a day with the current terrible charging network in the UK would find a PHEV really good.
I'm not sure you can call the UK charging network really terrible for a few long journeys, most Motorway service stations now have excellent Gridserve chargers. It all depends on where those long journeys take them.
@@ianmurray250 no most of the changes don't work. We have to keep reseting them. And they keep going off line. We have a long way to go yet. Also ,most electric cars have 100miles less than they claim when you treat them like normal cars by driving them in winter and turning electric things on in the car.
@@chrishart8548 Not what I have found with chargers recently and my Kona has a 240 minimum range, vice 287 (or 278 I can't remember) if I am really heavy with the throttle and don't give a dam. Over 300 with sunny weather and air con.
@@ianmurray250 i have used the chargers on long trips regularly and they are hopeless and getting worse, as electric car numbers increase at a greater rate than the chargers. You can't rely on them, full stop !
If your long journeys aren't regular, then you're fine with a BEV too. It's a bit of a paradox. If you're going on a lot of long journeys, the benefit of a hybrid isn't great. If you're doing it rarely, then the benefits don't really matter.
Guys, I disagree: there is no problem with a PHEV. In fact for some, especially those who need only one car for city and long range drives (occasionally), the PHEV is the best of both worlds. Here in Ireland, especially in the West, the charging infrastructure is crap. I’m not going to have to run two cars or worse one that cannot meet my requirements
2018 Hyundai Ioniq PHEV to minimize gas usage on local errands, 60-63 mpg on long trips, deviations, no place to plug has been a perfect vehicle for our purposes.
If the charging infrastructure is crap, how do you P your HEV? In that scenario, wouldn't a full or mild hybrid make more sense? Genuinely asking
I have no fossils since 2019. I drive 40.000-50.000km a year. I got no range anxiety. Electricity is everywhere. Gas stations are dying out around here.
@@JackScarlett1 Our gas stations are around 20-50 kilometers apart and close at 8 in the evening. And what then? When you are stranded in the middle of nowhere?
Ditto for Idaho, USA.
As a second hand buyer I went from a pretty thirsty petrol car, to a less thirsty 2011 Toyota Auris Full Hybrid and now drive an efficient electric 2018 Hyundai Ioniq 28 kwh.
To me the Hybrid was a great option for using less fuel and got me really into electric propulsion.
I think the Toyota Auris video of Fully Charged was my first encounter with this Channel.. Never left. 😀
I've been an EV convert for some time now, but back in the day (2009-2015) I did drive back to back Chevy Volts. They were brilliant at the time but that was mostly because I almost never used the petrol engine. You mentioned how gas gets "stale". My Volt would pop up a message once each month telling me that I hadn't run the engine in the past month so it wanted to run it for 5 minutes to keep the gas fresh.
Being an owner of an I3 REX, I have to say the petrol backup has saved us many times. We probably only use it 6 times a year but on a motorway it makes such a huge difference, especially when charge points don't work. I don't understand why more manufacturers didn't take this route
I've just got one as well. To be honest, it's been quite a challenge. I have to say I'm disappointed in the way this video glosses over many of the issues with battery-only driving and plan to be contacting Fully Charged direct in this regard.
You've had to use the gas backup on occasions because the battery range on the I3 REX is so limited.
That small petrol engine adds about 200 kilograms to weight of the car.
@@CwyfanapRhys do you know how much that affects range? It seems like a better solution than the hybrids that attach both the electric motor and engine to the drive train.
@@mikeedwards83 I suppose that depends on the i3 whether it’s 60Ah, 94Ah or 120Ah. Back in the day, the range extender made sense given the number of rapid charge points weren’t so widespread. Now I think onboard 22kW charging would be more useful as many rapid chargers provide this as well as the 50kW DC and both can be used simultaneously (obviously not by the same vehicle). Useful for those very infrequent use cases and the DC charger is already in use.
I drove a Chevy Volt PHEV for 4 years and it was great. I got between 50 and 60 miles range on pure electric. My EV use of it alone was over 75% and I only had 2 oil changes since the ICE motor was only used when I was on a longer trip. It was the gateway drug though hence I now drive a Tesla. Very happy with it so far (one year)
I intend my next vehicle to be a second gen Volt. Volts are little different and are essentially an electric vehicle with a motor backup. I drive enough miles where the motor will get used frequently and it won't be too underused like many.
I used to own a Golf GTE. Lovely car, but no matter how little you used the engine, VW still made me come in every year for an oil change. That basically ruins most PHEVs economically speaking...
agreed completely, i have had 2 - 2nd gen volts 2016-2018 and 2018 to present, LOVE it. I have added gas 2 times per year, it is nice to have the back-up as needed for long drives
OK, but that Tesla with its huge battery is stopping ten others getting a Volt! Battery capacity is growing but it's still limited. Why just have it all sitting in your car unused most of the time when nine others could be using it all?
@@PILLOCK4 Well my Tesla isn't one with the really large batterys...I've got a Model Y SR which only has a 58kw battery compared to my gen 2 Volt which had an 18kw battery so it's not 10 others as the battery is only about 3 times the size
I own a Tesla Y 2020 and I am very satisfied for watt per kilometre efficiency, charging network and best software in the business. Suspension and paint finish is a weakness. I always wanted an electric first with 250kms autonomy and a little 3 cylindre - 1 liter gaz engine as back up. But when you consider the problems of having 2 powertrains and a variety of oils to change, just give me an electric car with 700kms range and brake oil that I may never change because of regenerative breaking and I’m good to go. Good show gentlemen!
Hi love your channel been watching you for many years. we got our second generation volt in March 2016. Actually had a deposit on an Aptera Plug-in hybrid in 2008 and again now on the 1,000 mile current version. We’ve been generating more electricity than we use since 1999. And yet with our lifestyle living out in the country far from charging stations A pure EV still does not fit our lifestyle without that huge range of the Aptera. we rarely charge the car anywhere but at home. The volt EV only range varies from the high 40s to the mid 60s before the gas motor turns on. At just under 60,000 miles on the odometer our lifetime gas mileage is 166 miles to the gallon. I understand we have a unique situation and most plug-in hybrid don’t get that much gas mileage. Like you said it’s a transition vehicle.
I think you're near the sweet spot for a PHEV. If you got much more EV usage out of it than that, you'd start running into the "stale fuel" problem. Like yourself, I very rarely charge my PHEV (Prius Prime) anywhere but at home. The exception being that if a casino or hotel where I'm spending many hours or a night has a free charger, I of course plug in. For about 12 miles of range per hour charging on L2, it's never worth waiting around unless "already staying there for other reasons". I'm fine with that. I'm "already home" very often!
@@EfficientRVer You’re right about the stale gas thing. we use STA-BIL to prevent old gas issues.
For a different view I'm a motability customer and I've always gone with ICE cars (mainly down to the lack of BEV cars at the time) as I'm disabled, I rarely drive great distances, just pottering about generally so I'm definitely going to go BEV on my next car purely because I only drive short distances with no real range worries, plus the added cost of fuel and maintenance of ICE cars etc. I can just charge it and probably have a week or twos range between charges, and as I'm at home a lot charging isn't going to be an issue for me personally. The biggest advancement that has to happen is the improvement of the charging stations especially with quick/rapid charging bays. More bays placed in towns and city centers, and even supermarkets/shopping malls across the UK. Excellent video guys 👌
Do you have any concerns about the accessibility of chargers? I'm disabled but not yet a wheelchair user, had concerns about the weight of the combined port and lead. I have seen some very small women cope with them but in my experience very small woman are very strong!
I do wonder if wheelchair users have any problems reading the screen or reaching the rfid scanner or the charge lead itself....?
Not had experience of charging stations to be able to make judgement yet, as it my wife goes to the petrol station but that's more about the brain fog... a whole other story!
@@judebrown4103 that is a very good question. Before making a decision on a BEV (I'm not due a car change until next year) I will definitely need to consider where all my local charging points are first, I'm not a wheelchair user myself but I could see how that would be difficult for people in that position, I'm guessing in that case you'd need to ask someone from the garage to help you with charging or always charge from home overnight, but not ideal if you're traveling long distances I suppose.
Fortunately at present I don't have an issue with my hands/arms so picking up and connecting chargers isn't an issue for me, I just have use of walking sticks so for me I can't see it being much different to lifting and using a petrol pump where also the readouts are high up so again I would guess that anyone that's currently able bodied enough to use a petrol pump will not face any more difficulty when using electric charge points.
I've also wondered how people would get on that live in blocks of flats or tower blocks as there's no way you could have a charge box fitted or charge from your home, in that case you'd have to live pretty near to a charging station.
@@Addixxtion Probably worth getting the loan of a car first. We qualify for full Motability and in terms of all electric, the two MGs, the Kona and the Soul seem like the four to look at.
For me, BEVs weren’t even on my radar until like many company car drivers I got a PHEV (BMW330e) mainly to save on tax, but from the first time I drove it on battery power I started to realise how much better that route is. I now drive over 90% of my journeys on battery (I’m lucky enough that it can charge on the drive overnight) and the remainder is occasional trips up and down the country. My next car will absolutely be a BEV (and not an SUV) but my “gateway drug” was having an PHEV for a few years.
That BMW i4 40 looks like it has your name all over it!
I only wish there was a 3 or 4 series Touring (wagon) BEV... that would tick ALL my boxes.
Otherwise, my 330e has been a love affair!
Perfect timing with Robert's magical hand gesture @17:39 with the traffic light activating like an idea above his head.
I also lke the MG ZS EV with the wind turbine on it at 24:12.
This was a great discussion and the one that hit home with me is why drive around with an engine you would do your outmost not to use, or feel forced to use once in a while so it won’t break down or whatever would happen.
I wen’t All electric and not PHEV because I know I would cringe everytime my electric range was gone :) I know it does not work for everyone, but in our case, downsizing the car, getting a hitch and going all electric has been great for us!
Picked up an Hyundai Ioniq 5 in November and its been pretty good so far. That said the dealer was more keen on selling me a large hybrid SUV instead, so I think your comments around dealer margin, plus associated serving costs is very valid.
Nobody can get as many EV's to sell as they would like. Demand is going to usurp supply for the next couple of years from what I read. They have to try to get you into something they can actually GET>
I've found that the idea of buying an EV is great if you have the money to do so. A lot of people could really use something that is economical to run and is low maintenance, but the high up front cost leave them having to purchase a used ICE car as that is all they can afford.
Very informative video. Great content
I have an i3 REX and one of my friends has had multiple Chevy Volts. We are convinced that REX SUVs would sell in HUGE numbers in the US if they bundled (optional) home charging installs. No range anxiety and they would almost never need gas.
I have put $5 of gas in my i3 in the last year because it runs a "maintenance cycle" on the engine once per month.
What bothers me the most is the fact that the plug-in hybrids, despite their complexity, are cheaper than pure EV's. The slow charging is a total red herring - when using the limited electric range for a commute, most people will charge overnight at home.
I don’t think hybrids are actually that complex. I recall an article about Toyota hybrids and the entire electric assembly is 28kg including batteries. It goes to show that batteries are the main cost.
As for charging, it depends what you do with your car. We would mostly charge at home, but I do occasionally travel 130 miles to visit family and friends. On the last trip I took note of charger availability and none were available at hotels, shopping centres or pubs.
Yeah exactly you obviously charge it at home. An EV with all the trimmings is still gonna be £10k more. If they have ICEs in the same range then the economies of scale keep the cost down.
@@sargfowler9603 that's why I'm getting a PHEV, they are looking to build out the charging network over the next few years so I will leave them to it, while I get used to charging but don't have to plan my trip around finding a plug that isn't in use.
They advertise with 0-80% charge in 18 minutes! But that’s with the 350kw chargers, of which there are only 14 ionity ones in the UK, with plans to build 7,000 but they don't exist yet.
@@sargfowler9603 Just a thought, my EV has a 280 mile range. I also drive 130 miles to visit friends, and have never needed to charge on the trip there or back, just at home before and after.
@@VexedFilms 12,000 miles driven so far in my EV, fuel saving is £2,670, and it cost £8k more than the same spec petrol version. 40k should break even.
3 years ago I drove a Subaru Impreza WRX. A mate gave me a go in his i3 and I was instantly smitten so I leased a Kia Soul EV for a couple of years and now own a 9 year old 24kWh LEAF which was cheap to buy, pence to run and I still find it a fun daily driver despite only doing 60 miles per charge. I don't need or want a PHEV or HEV
As a BEV fan I've been looking for a retired friend for a replacement car. She won't go BEV as she parks on the street, and wont dig up the front garden for parking/charging.
So, as most of her journeys are local sub 15 miles, I think there is a good case for PHEV - once charged, run around on battery, switch to petrol for longer journeys or when battery level is low, and recharge at the supermarket for an hour (or how long?) once a week.
However, it's not clear whether any of the PHEVs or other hybrids charge the motor batteries up also whilst running on petrol. - are there any? Just range-extenders? Please comment with examples if any.
Thanks. keep up the good work.
I haven't watched your channel before, but I enjoyed it and will do so again. I bought a Honda Jazz HEV last Sept, explicitly as a stepping stone to a BEV. Our house is mid terrace without a drive so we couldn't charge a vehicle from the mains at the moment.We live in a city and could use public charging, but we are in the process of rebuilding our garage, which doesn't have power. The new garage will have a charging point for a BEV, which will be much more convenient and cheaper.
I disagree with the PHEV hate. PHEV are extremely important, gateway drug to full electric.
Many people like myself can't charge at home but can in a limited number of places. I'd happily start with a PHEV.
They "were" but they're "not"
The average man in the street doesn’t find it easy to go full EV ! Surely the likes of a Toyota hybrid Cross over ‘ Isn’t too bad to start off with 🤷🏼♂️ 🇬🇧
I have a PHEW and love it. Most weekly running around is all electric. But, I drive a trip of about 500 miles through the desert every couple of months. MOST EVs don't have that range and I don't want to start looking for a charging station in the middle of nowhere!
The negatively towards hybrids in this video show ignorance to the fact that it everyone lives in the type of residence as the the hosts of this podcast. The infrastructure to EVs is not there yet. When charging becomes available as plentiful as gas stations, then it may be time to switch. BEVs are certainly for tomorrow, but Hybrids and PHEVs are for today.
@@davidc8937 or indeed can afford an EV that would work for the sort of use we need. The second hand Outlander PHEV we have will do 20 miles of EV (home charged), do the 50 mile commute and tow the caravan. We'd currently have to pay a huge amount for an EV that would tow our caravan! No way we could dream of affording a £50k EV even on a lease
Love the intro :)
I note that you pulled rank again to get the window desk Robert, whilst Jack has to sit next to the dangling (wifi?) wire. Great episode - more ‘shorts’ of this style would be appreciated.
As an early entrant into BEV's (2015 Nissan Leaf)...we also had an ICE car for Long journeys Etc.......So 3 years ago when we purchased a Corolla Hybrid
we thought " Deal Breaker"...what a load of nonsense that turned out to be. A year later the hybrid was gone and we bought an E Nero.
Best decision we ever made. With a range in summer of over 450km, and as were Irish, there really is nowhere on this fabulous island of ours where we cant go in a single journey without stopping to refuel. Now when we travel,if we stop, its for convenience and a coffee and we just top up then.
I think if you live in a house that can facilitate a home charging port, and your thinking of changing, you would be mad to look at anthing other than BEV now.
PS. Love the show guys.
I loved the concept of the i3 REx in our 2015, I used it as intended because there weren't any DCFC locations in my province (Ontario Canada) at the time. But the engine itself left something to be desired in reliability and refinement. It failed on me often, spent weeks in the shop, it was a lemon. Nothing ever went wrong with the BEV side of things of course.
You should have got it serviced by your local motorcycle dealer. The bmw motorcycle engine in the i3 is very reliable. Just goes to show how car dealers just don't want to get their hands dirty.
@@bikeman123 uh ya definitely not... its issues were really not the engine itself, it was the electrical system controlling it, the timing changed on its own somehow, it had misfires... and plus it was all under warranty, a BMW motorrad shop isn't going to know what to do with it.
Hi Robert and team. I've been a fan of yours for a very long time, love your presenting style and enthusiasm for anything renewable. I've read a few of your books and even went to see you in the hay festival. Keep up your great work and thank you to you and your team.
Thanks, I really loved the format of this conversational piece. More of these please. What about a Battery-EV v Hydrogen-EV discussion the, now and future?
7:12 - The original “PiP” - Plug-in Prius - was indeed pretty dubious, but the current “Prius PHV,” or “Prius Prime,” as its called here in North America, really is a sweet spot:
- I see 25-30 miles on a charge,
- 4.6 miles/KWh on electric,
- 55MPG (US - about 65 MPG UK) on petrol, and
- Its 8.8KWh battery only adds ~4% weight to the car.
The Volt was conceptually nicer at 50+ miles per charge, but ultimately it wasn’t very good at either: only around 3.25 miles/KWh and 42ish miles per US gallon. Its battery was too heavy in gasoline operation, and its engine was too heavy in electric operation.
PHEVs do lug around an engine and transmission when they’re not used, but in the same light a BEV lugs around a giant battery when not much of it is needed on similar basis. I think a efficient PHEV is still a very good choice, as the battery is about 20% of a decent sized BEV so much less in raw materials and can allow other PHEVs to hit the road and be a larger impact if used as intended.
But in the same vein no matter what you choose, you still have to lug around something, why not choose the BEV as it costs less to charge, and is so much more efficient, making it better value for money, a PHEV would be the heaviest in terms of lugging things around…
@@benjibatch my info could be outdated by now, but I swore I saw that something like a Prius Prime gets more miles per kWh than a Model 3 when running in EV mode and is lighter in terms of curb weight.
This is one point I was going to bring up. A Phev is not too far off a Bev long range, doing a lot of short trips.
One other issue is that there isn't a BEV option available for all vehicle types. Robert said, buy a Prius over a big suv. They are two completely different vehicles. For some, it would work; some need the size for some reason. One reason is towing for some; the Prius can't keep up in that category.
@@FlexinJC yeah that is definitely a fair point. Some people need or want a different type of vehicle, which may not be available or practical as one or the other type of powertrain.
@@benjibatch no, a BEV is MUCH heavier, eg. The Kia Niro EV is 450lb heavier than the PHEV version(from their official spec sheets) and it's only got a 64 kWh battery, not the +- 100kwH one it would need to have more than mediocre range. If you're going to be lugging around something that's used only occasionally, a relatively lightweight ICE engine is preferable.
Thank you for your discussion
There is a philosophy distinction between 2 sorts of PHEV which I would like to highlight, and it comes down to the audience they are for
1) The electric motor is there to improve performance on an already large car (usually SUV) and it cannot be set to ONLY use electric - so that if you put your foot down it has to bring in the ICE engine. Effectively the electric motor is not powerful enough for everyday usage. First problem is that the ICE engine is used intermittently resulting in worst case scenario for emissions and resulted in a number of studies that PHEV are worse than ICE. It is much more a problem of the philosophy of the car design - it is made wrong. Too many PHEV cars are now like this as they are just big SUV cars with electric motors too small to use as an EV, only there to make their car faster.
2) The electric motor is easily enough to power the car in normal use even at highway speeds and can be used so that the ICE engine is locked out - so you hoof it and just use the EV part as an EV. In this case the EV can be used for short journeys and the ICE engine never turns on for this. The car can be used as a short range EV, and ICE for long journeys for people making the transition to full EV. Only this type of car will make people have that "ahh" moment and realise how nice full EV is, but give them time to adapt.
I have lived with a BMW225Xe - PHEV for the last 4.5 years and it is a brilliant car. Having said that, I'm trading it in for a new MGZS ev long range. However, back to the Beemer - which drives really well (better than the MG will) and which has served as a combo - electric/petrol so that it is mostly 100% electric while we are at home, covering nearly all our short journeys, while on long trips - e.g. to Scotland at least once a year (400 miles plus) it isw an efficient breeze free of range anxiety. Now charging infrastructure has grown - I am gambling on making the leap fully to electric. Fingers crossed... I'm encouraged to do so by my love of driving my wife's new e-Up! and the fact that we do all our joint short journeys now in that rather than the BM. I will be sad to see it go, though as it is a piece of tech. marvel - like the i8 with reversed drive train and less tuned 1500 - 3 pot.
I went straight frome ICE (Seat Leon STFR petrol) to a Hyundai Kona ev Premium 64kWa (71 plate) and have never looked back. It did take a while to stop looking at the consumption and just drive. I would love more rapid charging stations on Merseyside but a fill up at home from 20 to 100% costs about £12 and It gives me a range of about 270 miles in the winter. The same amount of miles would have costed me about £40 plus I have no running costs on top (Motability) I am in love and will never go back. The Hyundai dealership where excellent. I love your channel and was the main driving force behind my change to EV. Thank you.
30 months ago when I got my Ioniq PHEV it was perfect because my daily commute just about used up the EV range, and for snowboarding and mountain bike getaways I didn't have to stop to charge. Now that I've been working from home for 23 months and the only trips I take are the long ones, I'm annoyed that I always seem to be buying gas. Still half the gas I put in my old car, but the full EVs look more and more appealing every day. My PHEV is the best of both worlds, but also the worst as I still have to get oil changes, and have more parts to fail than either an EV or a traditional fossil car.
We have the Ioniq Electric and we got an Ioniq Plug-In as a courtesy car for a day. To the casual observer they’re identical so you’d think they’d be similar to drive but the PHEV was sluggish in comparison.
From similar experience a PHEV is only 10% of the benefits of a BEV, not exactly the best of both worlds IMHO
@@davidfyork Oh for sure! But I wouldn't have wanted to drive the 744 km trip home from Mont Tremblant yesterday after a half day of snowboarding with all the charging stops I'd have to make in an original Ioniq EV either, and on Canada's pathetic non-Tesla charging infrastructure to boot. I do that trip several times a season. My day in an EV is coming, but it wasn't happening 2.5 years ago.
Edit to add: Ontario has finally announced that their motorway service centres, which they call ONroute stops, are all getting DC fast chargers. This will change the math for me significantly! I only hope that they're putting in 300 kW stations and not cheaping out with 50s.
But not everyone can have a BEV - there simply isn't enough battery capacity in the world currently. Everyone may be able to have a PHEV though.
I have Volvo V60 hybrid and I think it is a great car. For me really best of both worlds.
Enough space
Still not SUV ( I am really not fan of tall SUVs)
Can tow 2000kg
Station wagon (easy to put 2 german shepherds to trunk)
Can drive to 50km commuting full EV mode (charge both ends)
Plenty of power
Great design and good quality
Comfortable and quiet
But it really depends on your needs which is the best (EV, PHEV, Diesel/gas).
Thanks Jack and Robert. I’m driving an electric car since 2 years and I will never buy an ICE car ever again. Love from France!
Really surprised Fully Charged got it so wrong on PHEV’s. They are right that self charging hybrid is a lie, but not PHEV. Mine has 50KM range and it’s more than sufficient for the vast majority of journeys, then if I need to go further the petrol engine gives me unlimited range. While the notion a PHEV engine might not start for a year is total nonsense. BEV’s are great under certain circumstances, but have limited practical use outside of a fanatical early adopter community and Tesla die hards. Reliable, affordable charging infrastructure is non existent and when it is available half the time it’s not working, starts working then stops, has damaged connectors or there are long queues to access chargers. There are Firmware glitches with integration over DIN and even DC chargers being blocked by ICE vehicles. Right now BEV’s are for company fleet vehicles and the brave. Whereas PHEV is a great bridge technology for real world driving.
I have two PHEVs and they are fantastic. Around town i use 0 gasoline but i have to drive 500 mile trips 2 to 4 times a month. I understand this is a niche use case but theres an ass for every seat and PHEVs work great for me at the moment. Will go full BEV once 400mi range options are reasonably priced.
Plug-in hybrids have technology to know when the ice engine needs to be “cycled on“. Every once in a while my plug-in hybrid starts it’s ice motor if I have not used it in a couple days. It runs for about a minute, and then turns off again. This “exercises“ the engine, and also burns a tiny bit of the fuel. Personally, I either only keep about half a tank on board unless I’m on a road trip.
Which PHEV do you drive? Needing to run the ICE every few days sounds like a terrible design.
@@joeb4294 your 12v battery does drain slowly when you don't drive the car and iirc it is that 12v battery that makes your start button or ignition key start either the ICE engine and/or the battery pack.
@@joeb4294 Not sure about my wife's Kia Niro, but a Chevy Volt wants to run 5 minutes a month and get to nominal operating temp to keep water condensation in the oil to an acceptable level.
@@DarkDutch007 Oh, I might have been biased by my 'PHEV' experience being with an i3 Rex which manages the 12v battery with the traction battery. The i3 Rex is more of an EV with an onboard electric generator. I suppose that most PHEVs with smallish batteries do not have that ability. Still, I would expect that the 12v would be okay for at least a week but I suppose the car would be designed more conservatively since it would not know if it will be left idle for a week after today's drive.
@@thewheelieguy A PHEV needing to run the ICE once a month for at least 5 minutes sounds more reasonable to me.
For me Hybrid was a great option moving from petrol just to test out the waters, to see if i enjoy it. And i dont have to dive straight in to thinking and stressing about charging and all that right away.
So it was a great steeping stone. I went from BMW E92 to a Audi A3 e-tron (hybrid). And now im driving a Tesla Model 3 :)
So i would actually recommend if you are not sure about EVs to get yourself a Hybrid first and see if you like it and also to see how everything works with charging and stuff.
And cuz its a Hybrid you dont have to stress about charging. And when you get used to it then hope over to a pure EV.
So if you are not sure, its a great in the middle option IMO of course.
Can't really argue with that. What I would say is that it's quite a costly stepping stone. There are so many services out there now that enable you to rent an EV for a month or two to see whether you can make it work or not. I wonder, if you'd had the chance to test out a Tesla straight out of your BMW, whether you'd have decided to go full 'leccy right away
I often wonder if most PHEV owners actually bother to plug the car in most of the time. With a BEV plugging in is just habitual and if you forgot then you could not drive it whereas to a PHEV owner plugging in might just seem a bit of a hassle.
Dealerships love Hybids because they keep you hooked on routine maintenance. Dealerships like selling you those expensive maintenance plans that ICE vehicles require because an ICE vehicle will need a lot more maintenance. They are also much more likely to need parts. Many ICE owners may want upgraded or performance parts, something EV's don't need. Dealers make a lot of money off of this and is a big reason traditional dealerships don't want to sell fully electric vehicles. Indeed, most of the profits a dealership makes are from the sales of parts and services for gasoline and diesel vehicles, profits from the sales of new vehicles alone won't keep the lights on. Once an new EV leaves the dealership it may never go back. I'm not responsible for a dealerships career choice. Kick all forms of the ICE habit. With the typical new EV getting between 250 and 350 miles per charge and long range EV's getting 400 miles or more (Lucid and Tesla are both offering models capable of 520 miles for their longest range versions), why mess with an internal combustion engine unless you absolutely have to. If you need a truck and frequently need to go more than 300 miles then get an ICE pickup. If you're a traveling salesman or other career field that keeps you on the road most of the time then get an ICE vehicle. For everyone an EV can't be beat for convenience. No hours wasted sitting in customer lounges waiting for oil changes or other routine maintenance. No having to stop at gas stations, especially uncomfortable on those nasty below freezing winter mornings. Only 2 seconds of your day required to refuel, one second to plug it in before going to bed and one second to unplug it in the morning (if your EV gets 350 miles or more per charge you'll likely only need to do this once a week). Full tank every morning, warmed and defrosted before opening your garage door or leaving your driveway.
@@JackScarlett1 Great episode and info on hybrids, I'm just curious do you own a car and if so is it a BEV?
Hybrid is still a great option even today, it offers way more capabilities than a BEV, you can easily bring your hybrid car overlanding or camping where an EV will never go, there are tons of plus with hybrids.
I got an i3 REX as a company car back in January 2017 and I have to say the dealer was less than enthusiastic about providing it, especially since I was using it as a long distance (160+ mile round trip) commute 3 times a week - which brings me onto a point you made at the end - I did make use of the Range Extender and generally did not even bother to stop to find out what sort of broken the Ecotricity charger was struggling with (wrong sort of electric etc.) when on longer trips - I did drive a 500 mile round trip in it without charging. Finally jumping back to your earlier point, I now drive a BEV as a company car - in oversized SUV form…
13:00 - I own a ford CMax Energy Plug-in Hybrid, my commute is puny so I've driven for months (4) w/o ever stopping at the pump. Problem is exactly how you describe it, the petrol gets "stale" and the car won't allow me to drive electric until I completely (less than 1/4) empty the tank, even on full battery, the car won't use it to drive full electric. It would still do "normal" hybrid but won't engage in full electric. I'm thinking (low budget) in replacing that car for a Leaf, thoughts? or recommendations? looking for a second hand around 16k US
While I appreciate your take on the drawbacks of PHEVs I couldn't disagree more. Since I only have one car, I need a car ready to go when I need it, whether it's charged or not. I drive a Volvo XC60 Recharge with a 40 mile range. 95% of my driving is EV when I'm home. BUT I regularly go on 1000 mile roadtrips. 8 hrs on the road in a day is enough without waiting for the battery to recharge. When I stay with friends, they never have an outlet close enough to plug in. When I head to the mountains in the summer, there isn't a public charging station within 40 miles and I park in a public lot so can't plug in. I'd love to drive an EV but they just won't work for me yet. Hopefully, sometime in the near future, EVs will have longer ranges and there will be public chargers in more remote areas. Oh, and my fuel won't get stale. If I go too far without using any gas, the combustion engine will kick on for a minute or two every now and then.
This comment right here nails it.
Well, I also do long trips - every week once or twice. I have a MG4 which has good range and charges to 80% in 20 mins (if you pick a high rate charge point). I also destination charge when I arrive. So, I charge while stopping for a coffee and a pee, and while doing work, then drive back starting with a full charge. I think this comment is understandable but doesn't recognise the improvements in EV range and the massively improved charger network
Oh and the point made in the video about maintenance costs shouldn't be underestimated. I've spent virtually nothing in 4 years and 70k EV travel (we now have 2 - I kept the first one). The tyres didn't wear out faster than my previous diesel SUV - I changed them at 45,000 miles just because the rainy season was coming. They were still legal
@@tonychallinor6721 The fast-charging network has certainly improved in the past few years, but it's still very incomplete. In many areas around the world road tripping can't be done in an EV at all, unless it's a top-of-the-line car. PHEVs allow people to plug-in at a much more affordable price point without sacrificing road-trip-ability.
@@tonychallinor6721 I mean clearly you don't go to the same places this person does. I more or less share their experience. There's rarely electrical outlets at e.g. mountains, beaches, really anywhere you actually want to be on a road trip, and in general destination charging just doesn't work for many destinations.
From the US, I kinda laughed at the both interest and researched opinions that balk at the idea of a vehicle that takes advantage of the current fuel systems AND the current battery tech systems. Hybrids is what we need right now. Can you imagine where everyone used 50%-60% less gas and way less pollution, in an affordable package (compared to long range EV)? Plug ins have the best of both worlds, and the worst. They are between ICE and EV in every category. They are indeed not a transitional tech, but a blended class of itself. Hybrid systems have been used on trains and passenger buses successfully. The thing is, the dream infrastructure for EV's is still decades into transitioning everyone, and never happen due to how our transport systems work anyway. The idea that hybrids are "old tech" is funny, because ev's have been around as long as ICE. Hybrids are the newest form of powertrain. And no, plug-ins dont really have range issues. The Chevy Volt, for example, has 40-70 miles, depending on the model, full electric which is more than enough for daily driving, and over 400 mile range, which you cannot get in a lot of ICE cars, and you have to sell a kidney to get in EV's, and it cost way less than anything but the budget short range EV's that are pure commuter vehicles. Imagine driving an EV, which is far more pollutive to produce than an ICE car, and think pretentiously that its superior to other technology. EV's are awesome, but their only an option, not a solution.
I really like the range-extended hybrid Chevrolet Volt I purchased in 2016, with a couple of caveats. (I initially had my heart set on a diesel VW Golf GT because they were so zippy, so fuel efficient, and had such low emissions. But we all know how that turned out.) Unlike most PHEVs, the Volt has more than enough battery-only power to get me through the day in the city-50 to 60 miles. It recharges overnight at home. If the gasoline engine hasn't been used in awhile, it briefly runs itself for "maintenance." The Volt's main drawback is its complexity. It has all the maintenance issues of a gas-powered car, plus the added weight and expense of the batteries and electric motor, PLUS the infrastructure needed to juggle among battery, gas, or a combination. Still, most of the time it feels like I'm driving an all-electric car, and when it switches to hybrid mode it gets 38 to 42 mpg. I agree, however, that many range-extended hybrids are pointless. With only 10 to 20 miles of battery range, I suspect a significant percentage of owners don't even bother to plug them in at night.
Question: what are your thoughts on the 23 Kia Sportage hybrids ? Worth buying or no?
I was quite happy with my Opel Ampera, it is real more on the electic side. To me it is all about the desing. The German and Korean manufacturers regulerly use their traditionel drive train, throw in a pancake motor and a battery. That is a heavy desing and I see the criticism there. However the Japanese use a hybrid transmission with a few gears and a spiced up electric motor, for there PHEVs. moreover the use of a smaler ICE is possible, since a bigger battery can provide the average power demand. That´s not the whole story, but I think it is possible to built a PHEV that´s more efficient than the cars we see currently on the market.
Very good explanation of the various types of hybrids. I think that "self-charging" is just a marketing term coined by mild hybrid manufacturers when they were getting their lunch eaten by plug-in hybrids witth their much increased electric-only range.
thank you for doing this show very much needed still .I'm retired with a very strict budget and have been looking for a used Prius to help make ends meet ,i may have to hold off for one of the small cheep ones from china to get what i really need.thanks again
I've got a VW ID3 on order and it's delayed due to the semiconductor shortage. My dealership is saying the semiconductor shortage is hitting BEVs far more than ICE vehicles. Is that right?
I have a Toyota Yaris Hybrid and for what I need it works very well, the fuel economy is really good (has never gone below 55mpg) and it is cool running on battery power in the city. However, my next car will definitely be BEV!
Toyota Yaris Hybrid would be perfect for my usage but they're priced around $33,000. Like all hybrids and electrics, way too expensive.
@@toby9999 I bought a 5 year old Toyota Auris TS Hybrid in 2020, for 10.000 euro. Absolutely nothing wrong with it and a very decent fuel economy. I think that now the fleet-sales of EV's are on the rise, there will be plenty of ex-fleet hybrids of 3, 4 or 5 years old coming onto the second hand market. Here in Europe, ex-fleet cars are usually well maintained, low mileage and high specs. And decent price too. And the looks and technology of three to five years ago, isn't old-fashioned yet. So all in all quite an attractive alternative to buying new.
55mpg is basically what I got from my 2005 Peugeot 206SW. There are more recent diesel cars which achieve far better mpg than that. It's hard to se what you're gaining by having an expensive and complex hybrid.
@@PeterChinkin hes gaining not having to drive a diesel
I got one of these for my parents. It was good for the very limited amount of driving they did although I certainly wouldn't say it always does better than 55mpg.
You also have to be very wary of the 12v battery running down if you leave it standing for a few days.
If you can plug in at home or a daily work plug (or a very reliable, super-local multi-stall DC charging hub), AND your part of the world has very plentiful reliable DC options serving longer trips, obviously full BEV is the way to go (if you can afford one, new or used).
BUT - if you get out of your 1st world bubble for a second - there are still many regions in Europe and elsewhere in the world where DC infrastructure is sparse (or non existent) and can't be relied upon, but where car owners can nevertheless plug in at home and get 30 to 50 miles of daily all-electric range, covering most of their annual mileage.
In these regions, obviously a BEV cannot yet function as a family's "only car" (most car owning households worldwide only have one car). So the non-fantasy-land choice these folks face is ICE or PHEV (or perhaps BEV with REX). Are you seriously saying PHEVs (/ BEV with REX) should not be chosen over an ICE-only car for people in this situation?
At the end of the day, the goal is transforming an increasing share of societies' combustion miles to electric miles, towards 100%. At this still-in-progress stage, PHEVs are still a relevant (if temporary and transitional) stage along that transformation, for some folks, in some regions. This will only change when reliable, affordable, and easy-to-use, multi-stall DC charging is commonplace in all regions, and that will take another few years at least. Have you looked at the huge area of mid-Wales recently - still no multi-stall DC stations!
I was looking to buy a used PHEV but now I will get a ICE vehicle. I feel that EVs are still out of my price range, at least one that can be used as my one and only car, here in Texas you can drive 500 miles and not find a DC or AC chartering station... unless you find someone willing to let you use one of their house hold plugs to use... and the best you will get is 1800w an hour if your lucky.
Wales is very primitive - backward, even ...
We have a Golf GTE PHEV and love it. With our user profile, over the period of a year we do 75% of the kms based on plugged in electricity. With charging overnight we're never left waiting for it to charge - we just plug in when we park it and dont have to think about it. The petrol doesn't 'go stale' with this level of petrol use. The other key driver for us was that loads of them are available on the market at a price (15-20k) which is accessible. We've driven with it on long trips and just accepted that its only going to achieve 16 kms/litre and wouldn't consider stopping ate very service station to charge it (that would be daft, surely). And as long trips are less than 10% of the kms we do in a year we live with it. Its just great to have. P.S. my wife got the Golf GTE and I have to make do with an ID.3:) ... if we're considering a second hand car a PHEV can make a lot of sense. (Did I mention that I love that Golf? and ... no, I don't work for a car dealership or have one for sale)
Interesting video. I currently have a e-208. It’s been a really good drive and I love the car. Unfortunately when it comes to charging and range it’s been a nightmare. So I was thinking to look at a PHEV so that I could mainly use the EV mode for daily commute to and from work. Then use the petrol engine when going further a field.
Have you thought of the offerings from Hyundai or Kia? They both have 280 mile range EVs.