So Much Going For It... Yet Is This The Worst EV Charging Installation?
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 3 พ.ค. 2024
- There's a lot to consider when considering what makes a good charging location. To find out what's going on, stick around as Dave Takes It On.
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Dave, my favourite EV expert, (YOU), tells us, correctly, that about 90% of people charge at home except when doing longer road trips, meaning journeys long enough that they need to charge to get home. So surely these chargers are not aimed at folks living in Sadly Broke… they are, according to Google maps, just 3 minutes / 1.4 miles from junction 16 of the M5, and just across the road is the massive leisure centre, with gym, pool, climbing, racket sports, karate and a decent coffee shop, and also my physiotherapist… Both people coming down the M5 from Birmingham and the north, and those coming across from London and the Southeast on the M4, all pass M5 J26 on their way to the Southwest, so many may find this spot fits their needs. Local knowledge sometimes explains the why, perhaps. Keep up the good work !
What you said won't make a good video though, plus he wants to check the planning permission, because I was granted which most are on the grounds that EV charging was made possible on site, with some council that also include a percentage of the over all number of spaces, unfortunately Dave is a Tesla driver with home charging so all of what you said wouldn't count and that coupled with what I've said, means that a charging network has done the right thing and future proofed it. I'm currently using podpoint which Dave also hasn't noticed has brought its price down to 65p. Great channel but sadly on a few occasions lacks correct information
This location is not terrible for everyone, Dave. We live in London. My wife and I often drive to Swansea to see my daughter. Bristol is usually 2 hour to 2.5 hours away (depending on how slow the M25 is) and about a 125 miles drive. We prefer to stop around Bristol for a toilet break, a coffee and a short charge. We have used Mollies Dinner, near Cribbs Causeway, nice coffee and nice food but with only 6 chargers it does get busy. We have also used Severn Services. This has reliable Grid Serve chargers, never had to wait but it must the smallest and worst service station on the M4.
So, the chargers at this shopping centre are in the perfect place for us, lots of new rapid chargers, all available, clean toilets and a coffee shop. Would probably only stop for 20 mins. It is even closer to the M4 than Molies Dinner. Even with the high price of public charging the convenience, reliability and availability of these chargers is key for me.
If you drop down the M5 one junction you could use the Tesla installation at Cribbs Causeway, with all the facilities one could possibly wish for and a membership price of £0.42 per Kwhr
I would agree. Just off M5 J16, come summer & bank holidays it could be a very well used site, along with the others in the area.
@@pauleast4372 in an ideal world one location would suffice, but since there are many other chargers in the area of the supercharger, one wonders if maybe that site is oversubscribed and I really see nothing wrong with the fact of installing those chargers at the Willow Brook Centre. Underutilised now, but in three to five years there will be more EVs on the road, and it makes sense to have chargers available. Plus Kempower chargers are great quality, the price per kWh is what it is today, who knows what’s going to be in two to five years time, therefore why complain?
I understand @davetakesiton might disagree, but I say keep installing them.
I surely would love to see every parking space with its own slow 7kW chargers at the current domestic kWh rate (£0.25) because that’s really what would make life better for those without charging at home. Pop to the local shops, charge while you park, more than sufficient because local shops mean within a 10 mile radius and 7kWh in one hour is plenty.
This location is brilliant. I for one will be using it in the future.
I live in South Wales. It will be a handy stop off point when I return home. I may even use it on my trip to London end of this month.
It's only a 2.5 mile detour from the M4. Plenty of shops to visit. Tesco to grab a reasonable sandwich. My young kids can stretch their legs use the toilet.
Honestly don't understand what the negativity is about. If it's not a Tesla Supercharger then it's rubbish it seems?
How do you guys justify running an EV over there in the UK at those prices? To do 200 miles at 4 miles/kWh you need 50 kWh @ £0.79...so it costs you close to £40....mad! An ICE car doing 50 mpg would cost about £26 in fuel. Here in France we pay €0.43/kWh to plug in at the supermarket, though we don't need to as we can charge at home and have solar. At that price you are saving over a fossil fuel car but £0.79 is way too high.
@@kiae-nirodiariesencore4270 Do you pay 20% VAT on your electricity because we do...
I bet if the rate /Kw was dropped to compete with the Superchargers there would be quite a few drivers going out of their way to get to this charging site, this would also benefit the Tesco coffee shop……..
Interesting how the conversation is already changing from desperately needing more chargers to too many chargers. A good pointer for the future - probably!
Well you can't have too many charger locations, a simple change in their pricing policy and these chargers will soon be full.
45p/Kwh instead of the exorbitant 79p would be welcomed. Incoming price war soon.
Grab the subsidy while its available, subsidising your install, run at a loss claiming against tax and also running down CapEx at 20% tax per year, convince the retail park your a must have for the future of their business and get 10+ year free lease for you charging plot, 5 years later everything you make is profit even if you need to go down to 25p kWh! Nowt like a long term vision :)
When I first saw you video I thought I had visited that charging site, but in fact I had visited a duplicate site at a Sainsbury's due south, in teh Harry Stoke area, same number of chargers. I visited it twice over a weekend and only saw one other car, as you say a bit of a waste. A|nd even more of a waste now I have found teh Tesla chargers. Keep them coming Dave.
Bradley Stoke is a brilliant location, thanks Osprey for your work
i get your point but with the uptake of EVs i think its a case of we need as many as we can get , my friend who cant drive tells me the infrastructure isn't there for EVs im sure there are home within a 10 mile radius that might have no drives .
Great video. Thanks
The answer of “who are these chargers for?” is always evolving and never static. The basic fact is that the charging infrastructure is “there”. That’s the hardest hurdle complete. Even if Osprey went bust, the chargers would still remain as would the DNO supply, waiting to be bought up in administration proceedings by someone who has a better idea of “who are these chargers for?”.
Personally I think 79p/kWh is a delusional price, favoured only by the person who says “I can’t make it to the cheaper charger/home unless I charge up here”. Maybe even the “I’ll just put it on expenses” driver. Their numbers are small. It won’t make a profit.
The next player will hopefully see sense. I could imagine Tesco buying them all up and charging up their future electric delivery vans from them for instance.
In that area there are many companies such as the MoD where people drive in from many miles, Although I retired fro mhere a few months ago they don't have on-site charges except for the hire cars & I know this is similar for other major employers in the area, MBDA being an exception so that is who it aimed at & as Bristol is ULEZ city they encourage EVs. I agree the price is high but until then the only place I could charge (if not visiting MBDA) was the Instavolt by the Golf Course an awful place & agin high priced. At least there you can get a coffee etc.
Good points Dave
I’ve just paid the equivalent of road tax here in Spain. They are now charging for BHP and weight not emissions. Is this the future?
Sounds like a retrograde step
Probably. Heavy cars are more dangerous and more damaging to the road
But, if you are a CEO of a charging company and your bonus is linked to the number of sites you open, then this makes sense. High power grid connection, parking and road infrastructure all in place. Maybe even a government grant
I went past the other day and I would say 70% of them were in use, I was surprised as I was thinking the same as you. People must be coming off the motorway as there are usually only a few there and not the amount as at Bradley.
exactly the same chargers have just gone up in the last 6 months in the retail park in Workington in Cumbria ,albeit only 12 of them
Hi Dave. What we have here is a large service area which will attract lots of lovely EVs from far and wide. (that is the hope anyway). Close to the A38 and the M5 and, one would think. a lot cheaper than a motorway service , looking at the map it seems to have a lot to offer. In 5 years time the same land would have trebled in price so get in now, that's my thinking. So futureproof. Keep up the good work.
Completely agree with you. There are now so many chargers in all sorts of places, we do need to start thinking about the right chargers in the right places with the right facilities. Not just more more more, faster faster faster.
My area is very similar. Very much driveways everywhere and we have 3 rapid public chargers and a number of 7kw ones. And rarely any queues.
Along with a good location is a reasonable price. As Dave mentions quite often we will see the prices for charging come down when the network owners realize their utilization rates are too low to be profitable.
@@1973Hog absolutely. Especially with the fact that so many EVs are long range now, price has to make a difference.
You are ignoring the charging deserts out there. I am keeping my somewhat thirsty ICE car on the road for longer problematic journeys as the fuel costs are comparable except when I charge from home. More and more EV chargers are really needed. Faster no, cheaper yes.
A good point made Dave and as we have seen over the last decade or two ICE car stations have been closing down as the supermarkets take all the business but do we hear anything about that in the Scum or Daily Moan no .
The business models around EV's and there infrastructure seems spot on for Tesla with their shed load of data as you pointed out but for others a quick buck it ain't.
I normally agree with you, but here I don’t see your point entirely.
Is your point that they should be cheaper? Is that it?
In which case, does it matter who they are aimed at? In the long term it won’t anyway.
Personally, I think we need a good portion, say 30 to 50% of the parking spaces in retail parks to have a decent 7kW charger installed, and the price per kWh to match the domestic rate (£0.25 at the time of writing)
the slow A/c chargers are very useful for those who can’t charge at home and need to balance an LFP battery pack from 5% to 100% in a single charge as recommended by some manufacturers.
At which point a bunch of ultra rapid chargers like these ones which *are* near the motorway will be very welcome for anyone who needs a quick top up and they can cost say 40 to 60p per kWh.
Ultra rapids are not aimed at people living or travelling locally, of course a lower rates per kWh at less sociable hours is great for those needing a quicker fill up who live locally.
I think the point is that we subsidise these installations so if the wrong chargers are put in the wrong location it is. a waste of public money. BTW fast chargers typically charge at around 4 or 5 miles per hour plugged in and most retail parks have a time limit of 3-4 hours, here it was 4.5 hours. That's 20 miles maximum.
@@davetakesiton now I see your point a bit clearer. Maybe I’ll watch the video again.
But I’m not sure what you are saying about the fast chargers is true. I get 6.5kWh in the battery in one hour at a 7.4kW public charger. When driving to the local shops I would at most do a 10 mile round trip. At 3 miles per kWh that means charging for one hour gives me 20 miles. If they charged the domestic rate of 25p per kWh I would never charge at home.
I thinkj that it is great as an advert to show lots of EV chargers and very useful if you are visiting an area and can do shopping or grab a bite to eat. It is future proofing the area and may not be filled up yet but as number of EV's increase it will no doubt be used. Some people will still not want home charging but happily pay as it is more like they didi before.
Trying to educate everyone that has an EV will not be easy. Then they will moan that they cost as much as the old car to use!
The best location is where I wish to charge, the worst is where I do not! No one place is 'best' every day, it is only on my list of available places. On a longish journey, it will be motorway services, coming home from holiday a supermarket stop can be useful. On a 'womble' day a place with food and drink is useful.
WHilst I would like more 7kwh charge points , even in shopping areas, I guess that since the average dwell time for shoppers in a supermarket is quite short rapid chargers make sense. It could be that Tesco management is looking to the future by having so many rapids installed, they have the background data from previous years and other sites to base their thoughts on.
Bonjour from France and thanks Dave for another enlightening video. I was a student in Bristol for a while way back in the mid 1970s so I do know the area. Why are public charging prices in the UK so crazy high!?...Osprey you say are £0.79/kWh and not the cheapest, so if you cannot charge at home and want to get a week's worth of driving on board while you shop then the concept is a great use of time. So let's say you need 200 miles of range for a typical week. In an ICE car doing 50 mpg at current petrol prices that would be 4 gallons (18 litres) and cost you around £26. Assuming 4 miles/kWh in an EV @£0.79/kWh you would need 50 kWh and at the site you reviewed would cost you £39.50!!...So where's the benefit in owning an EV at those prices? Here in France supermarket charging is typically €0.43/kWh, strangely enough the same price Tesla charge at their superchargers...so at £1 = €1.15 so we pay £0.37. At that price you are spending £18.69 for your 50 kWh, so saving about £7 a week over a fossil fuel car. We come back to the UK once a year in the e-Niro to visit family and the prices over there are tbh shocking. Whoever operates those chargers needs to do their sums and realise that they HAVE to come in under whatever the petrol/diesel price is or there will be no takers.
Welcome, bonjour, nice to hear from you. Yes, if you don't have a Tesla it's all ridiculous. I search out Tesla superchargers and off peak we pay 22-35p so not too bad. For non-Teslas it's not so good. Our supermarkets started by offering free charging but that soon stopped. Now they are around 45p.
Likely that one of the reasons to put the chargers there was availability of enough power, ( particularly as new shopping centre built). Be interesting to see how long they last.
No simple answer here. Two levels of charger in one location could have the smaller, more efficient cars with smaller batteries charging at 50KWh units and the thirsty less efficient ones on the 150KWh units. The rate of miles added would be comparable. Except at a supermarket and you own a car with half the efficiency and more than double the battery size of the smaller cars hogging the slower chargers may be more convenient for a longer shop. I would say at a local supermarket style location 50KWh is fine for everyone as it would give over 210miles on a small efficient car to around 90miles on an electric SUV.
Efficiency varies little between EVs It is certainly not comparable to ICEs where there is a strong negative correlation between engine size and mpg
Last time we were at Bristol we used Ospray chargers at Tesco Extra. I had some Ovo charge free charge credit to use. Would I use again no way to far from motorway. Nearest Tesla supercharger 36p kwh. With Osprey priced at 79p kwh why would a Tesla driver ever them. When charging I only saw one other EV charging.
Why do they call Tesla level 3 chargers superchargers. It is unnecessary and irritating
@@rogerphelps9939Each V3 and V4 are on a 250kwh supply. V2 charger share power between 2 bays. Level 3 is 50 to 350 kwh. Never seen more than 109 kwh on my LFP battery. I may be wrong as new to Tesla superchargers.
It is no longer the M4. The M4 was diverted over the Prince of Wales bridge and this stretch of motorway became the M48. It has arguably the best viewpoint in the country. The old services building has been taken over by an insurance company
You don't need permission to film or use that film for any commercial purpose.
Ah, so you read the terms and conditions then for filming commercially on this privately owned site? I didn't. As a video maker I do often get videos removed over copyright claims.
Did you tell Rachael to go to Tesla up the road?
Any EV charging station could be described as the worse . . . Just having to change an EV . . . Would rather a dental appointment!
Why?
Here's another clue. People aren't buying EVs.
Yet they're all building new EV factories around the world and the USA and Europe are trying to block China importing cheap EVs. Weird?