BMW i3: Useless EV Beyond 100,000 Miles?
ฝัง
- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 15 มิ.ย. 2024
- You often read headlines about how used electric cars are too expensive to repair and become essentially worthless once the high-voltage battery warranty runs out.
In this video, we take you on a journey where we deliver a Polestar 2 to a customer in Wales and take his well used 99k mile BMW i3 in part-exchange.
Specifically, it's the version with the middle 94Ah battery and the infamous petrol Range Extender which could occasionally be troublesome. Hence, the engine is tested on a long motorway run back into London and so is the DC rapid charging on a top up using GRIDSERVE at Chieveley Services to quantify any drop in peak charging performance.
Lastly, we investigate the state of health / degradation of the traction battery and discuss the final numbers, as they do differ slightly based on what device and method is used for the measurements.
CHAPTERS:
00:00 Introduction
00:27 Polestar 2 Delivery to Wales
02:42 BMW i3 Part-Exchange Overview
06:33 BMW i3 Range Extender Test
10:20 BMW i3 DC Rapid Charging Test
12:39 BMW i3 100% Electric Range Test
14:37 BMW i3 HV Battery Degradation Results
16:11 Conclusion - ยานยนต์และพาหนะ
![ทัศนศึกษาโรงงานผลิตโค้ก [THAI/ENG SUB]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/M9y-TJBNem0/mqdefault.jpg)
I have the Rex i3 with 112k miles. I’m totally in love with this little car, it’s an absolute marvel of tech and design. There is just nothing at all on the road Rosa that can touch this car.
It all makes it so bitter sweet knowing that I could viably snap up a 2014 BMW i3 but completely untrusting of BMW to faithfully carry out repairs without extortionate tactics. I remember back in 2015-2017 that BMW pledged itself to offer modular battery upgrades to any i3
Gen 2 Prius EV mod has entered the chat.
@@eivis13 Welcome Prius, bring your Toyota quality with you while we discuss german cr4p
@@chrissmith2114 still more relative than sarcasm.
@@eivis13 Have you looked at 'most unreliable cars' data lately ? BMW and Audi always well represented in 'the worst' - this year Tesla Model Y made 6th and Model X made 3rd place, BMW i8 in top spot.
This channel deserves a much higher number of subscribers! Potential EV buyers are really missing out on a wealth of knowledge, advice and information…
Get your EV before people start figuring it out.
Completely agree: was going to say exactly the same.
It's a fab channel and my go-to for high quality info.
Yeah plenty of WEALTH,and that`s the problem.
@@69Dobby what an earth does that mean? A lot of people would like to get an EV and used is probably the only way they could possibly afford it so these types of channel provide that help. Where is problem?
It seems more and more obvious that a good enginered battery system EV like on an i3 will run far more longer and are much more reliable than petrolheads will admire. Thank you Martin for this honest and clear explanation and upload! Greetz from The Netherlands.
So very true.
The i3 battery modules seem to be quite different in construction to the Tesla 18650 type cells, are i3 less subject to battery fires?
It's interesting to compare this to Mazda MX-30 e-Skyactiv R-EV. About 10 years since BMW launched this and now Mazda is selling a car which copies some of i3 Rex features, but loses to an old i3 in most areas.
Good on you, Martin, for another fact-filled, well-packaged and engaging video.
My 9.5yr old 60Ah Rex has done 117k and the battery is still excellent. Unfortunately it has a few other niggly faults which might end up costing me a bit to fix, but I really want to keep this for a few more years yet as a high mileage hero!
I bought my 2014 60Ah i3 without Rex in 2016 and have driven about 97k kms. Rear disc pads and discs had to be replaced recently, but it also improved the range, apparently there was some brake drag. An AC expansion valve and a parcel shelf string have been the most expensive repairs so far.
The i3 will be a future classic, ahead of one's time.
I’m shopping round for one next month any tips on what to look out for and what spec should I get ?
I'm sure Martin has done a film
on this very subject if you search this channel.
My own advice is that a high % of issues come from the Rex, so if you don't need to have a Rex version, don't get for the sake of it as they're more expensive, slightly heavier (obvs) and seem incredibly sensitive to faults. Front shock absorber gaiters seem super fragile.
Generally though, unique in the market, fast, efficient and totally different to anything else. Feel very special to own!
@@rusty911s2 okay thanks, the only main thing I’m scared of is this ac issue I keep hearing about. It’s meant to be very expensive to fix if it has the issue
@@Sevenseas0 With i3's it's better to have a later car with miles than an early low mileage car. Ideally avoid 13/14 examples in perfect world as these seem to have by far the most issues (even when young).
great to see actual real world data and not the lies from other channels at all, All we can do is to show this and let the message get out there.
Martin has again demonstrated what a terrifically technically engineered and built car that the i3 is. When motor historians look back to the early 21st Century they will wonder at how brave BMW were to develop such an iconic car. Sadly much of the new materials used and the construction methods have not been carried forward into other subsequent BMW models but I suspect this is for reasons of cost and build speed rather than because the concept was wrong. I even think that in Apple CarPlay equipped models the infotainment tech is not very far behind the game and the iDrive controller is often quicker, more intuitive and safer than stabbing at a distracting touch screen. I intend to keep my Protonic Blue 94ah REx for the full remainder of my driving life - hopefully another 15 years - because I actually think that it will be the easiest and safest vehicle for an elderly person to drive on their weekly trip to the supermarket. That has over meant that my i3 is relegated to the back of the garage to avoid putting too many miles on the odometer.
I have a 2017 Rex with every option (took me ages to find) which I bought from BMW in 2020 with 20k miles on the clock. It's my second i3 having had an all electric 2017 as my last company car before I sold my business. When my elderly Dad was thinking of giving up driving I loaned him my i3 (for two years) and bought a XC40 Recharge Twin motor. Dad found the i3 super easy, and safe, to drive and it gave him another year or two of independence. Sadly he passed away in February and I now have the i3 back and should really sell it (I have a van and a V8 Mustang 😮 and half a dozen motorbikes as well as the XC ) but am so tempted to keep it as I absolutely love the i3, they're unlike any other car and are streets ahead of all other designs. I need to understand how best to store/use it so that it will still be viable for 10/20 years to come, a service with Martin and the team beckons 👍🏼
Wkd video there’s nothing wrong with high mileage i3 as I own on 👍👍
really like watching this chap - very informative, keep it up
I have met him at the Wisley garage and he is a wealth of knowledge!
Our i3s clicked over 180k today - love it..
Wow amazing!!!!
Congratulations 🎉
Martin, thank you again for an outstanding i3 video! Last fall, I purchased a 2020 i3/REX and have always wanted information on using it for extended periods, so again, thank you!
Exciting presentation.
For all the times that I’ve driven to and from South Wales since 1992 this the most interesting .
Great presentation.
The 90ah pack seems to hold up so much better than the 60ah pack in terms of relative capacity degradation.
Strange given they're both Samsung SDI NMC cells.
Really enjoying the videos @Martin. Much appreciated.
Keep in mind with it being more capacity, it generally goes through fewer cycles to cover the same mileage.
Yet another super vid Martin! Now even more convinced we did right buying our i3 from you !
2015 BMW I3 r e x, USA. The biggest off warranty repair I've had is a $900 seat belt, I think I've beaten the odds. It still looks and feels almost new. If it doesn't last forever I'm considering a used Polestar 2, I don't need huge range.
interesting like always. Thanks!
Our old Zoe just hit 98,000 miles. It's never missed a beat, and still has the same range it did when it was new...probably the most reliable car I've owned in 40 years
Great video. I'm considering purchasing an early i3 but am wary after reading some scare stories in online forums of drive motor failures (and also aircon compressor failures) on early models after they've done >50k miles, apparently no longer an issue for models 2018 onward. Have you come across these issues often in the models you've dealt with over the years?
I owned an i3S Rex and loved it…still miss it if I’m honest
Martin is really absolutely excellent at these videos. A natural communicator, not even a scintilla of annoying. Quite unlike “Fully Charged” etc, I don’t even like EVs really. But I’m nearly convinced.
Maybe a Polestar…
I charge mine at home for 10p kw overnight from 12pm to 6.30am on a trickle charger. I can get from Rochester in Kent to London and back on less than £2 a day.
Love my i3 and is even cheaper than my other half Toyota hybrid!
Wisley are also excellent and I do reccomend them to anyone in or around the London area
I too wonder how to properly determine battery health. We own a 2015 BEV with the 22kWh battery.
The car itself reports 13.2kWh left of what originally would have been 18.8kWh. That's 70%.
If you read the codes/logs pulled with BimmerLink, there is one in there that suggests some internal degradation limit was tripped (from memory, I don't remember where I saw it). So the car thinks the battery is below 80%.
The car still estimates between 90km and 110km on a charge, and the original range was around 130km, so that suggests 70% to 85%, but that's probably the least dependable number (the GOM is usually all over the place).
While driving the vehicle, the range estimate will often improve or remain on the same value for long periods of time, again suggesting that the vehicle probably has the full 130km range left. But of course we have never run it completely empty (I've had it down to 6% once), and what I know of BMSes (I work in the solar industry), is that you don't know where the bottom is unless you discharge it to the point that a clear low voltage event happens on the weakest cell.
There are apps for the phone. Since I have an Android phone, some of them don't work. "Electrified" doesn't work with the OBDLink Cx dongle. BimmerFlow is not yet available for Android (and will cost 20 Euro, I hear). And Mi3 is also iPhone only. So no easy software solutions that allows watching cell voltages (I believe they are NMC, so well known topic).
Anyway, so for the moment, we enjoy the car and don't worry about it too much. But it would be nice to know if there is a way to actually test this properly. The only easy one I can think of, that involves no equipment, is running it completely flat, and then checking how much juice it absorbs on recharge... adding in a 5% fudge factor for the efficiency of the charger.
The battery in the 94 Ah is rated for 4600 cycles or roughly 920000 kilometers if we assume you go on average 200 kilometers on a charge.
The very low degradation that has been tested on high-mileage used examples supports this so far as well.
Martin,
You have got me back looking at the 94 Rex.
I was thinking I Pace, but now…
I own a 2014. Bought at 55k miles, currently 67400. Love this car.
Excellent review on what are becoming quite old EVs. I never thought I'd say that when I got my i3s Rex in protonic blue in 2018. Absolutely loved it until the the lease company took it back 4 years later. No issues, one set of 4 tyres plus about 20l of fuel; charged at home so my 80 mile commute cost about £1 compared to my previous company C200 at £10 a day. Despite now driving a Tesla I still miss the shape, the colour and the "bright new future" styling. The only BMW I've ever run in 40 years!
What is the app you used to connect to the dongle?
I recently had a drivetrain error and replaced the fuel pump relay and it fixed the problem. This small part only costs $25 USD and I only had to remove glovebox to replace. Took about 45 minutes (glovebox taking out and putting back was the hardest part)
My 66 plate i3 REx 94Ah has covered 97,000 miles. I have owned this car from new and, so far, I haven't noticed any significant battery degradation. The range appears to be still as it was when it was first delivered.
What app are you using with the iPad?
I have a 2019 120ah.
When I turn the AC on while driving, I hear and feel a large thump, single one, through the car.
When the AC starts with the car, everything is fine.
Any recommendations?
Can someone explain how if at all BMW i3 Rex drive train is different to the new Nissan e-POWER models? Thanks.
Yes... another GREAT VIDEO from Martin @ Wisely Automotive. Thank You - Thank You - Thank You !!
We have a 2020 120AH i3 which shows 325kms fully charged after 125,000 kms so that is pretty good.
The range extender is an interesting idea. Since it dosn't drive the wheels directly. I wonder if it could be converted to LPG and refilled with LPG minus tax. Like a forklift or generator. Since it is a generator.
What model year was the i3 you tested?
What happens next year with road tax and the REX engine and having to pay road tax on BEV cars? Do you have to pay twice? For cars after 2017 i mean
Do you think the rex helps the battery life?
I read, somewhere , that for the range extender the optimum speed to mantain charge is 90kph (56mph).
in my experience it's 65 -70 mph anything more range goes down anything less range goes back up to the selected %. if not using AC or Heat.
I wonder if there's a way to tell in the software how many hours the engine ran to get an idea of it's remaining lifespan.
Would a 68 plate i3 REX definitely have the 120ah battery?
Been thinking about a used i3, but you mentioned something that I wasn’t aware of - the REx can’t charge the battery up? I was under the impression that if I remained stationery and started the REx, I could charge it up - is that not correct then?
In theory no, but there is a trick with an emmisions mode, where you can open your hatch door, and start it in a special way with pedals where it can work for up to half an hour, but still, REX can only be in general turned on if the battery is below 75%, to keep the health ov the HV battery
@@Renesis thanks for that - good to know!
Can someone do the conversion of 94Ah into more fsmiliar kWh. Thanks. And why do they quote that rather than kWh anyway?
Thanks Martin, very reassuring!
Was interested to see the Rex in operation. I recently bought a 94ah with Rex issue: misfire cyl 1, cyl 2, multiple misfire detected.
Have replaced fuel pump relay, drained (via fuel rail) tank so new fuel, new plugs, visual spark check (seem fine).
Fault remains, engine shuts off after 10s.
Any clues from anyone? Many thanks 🙂
When searching for the error online a missing oil change was a solution.
@@gerbre1 Thank you! I have done the oil change using genuine oil / filter, but thinking about it there is a service alert on the dash, so perhaps the car doesn't know this. I shall try a service reset using ISTA.
I hope this isn't the case for you but my 64,000 mile 2016 60ah Rex, owned from new and driven carefully, developed a misfire on cylinder 2. This ended up being a crankshaft failure which means an engine replacement. It's been in the dealership for 12 weeks now, should be back in a few weeks now the replacement engine has arrived from Germany. Luckily I kept paying the BMW extended warranty because I've been told a Rex Replacement by BMW is over £18,000. Point to consider if anyone buys a second hand i3 from a BMW dealer, the extended warranty only covers up to the value of the car for a claim. So if someone buys secondhand a Rex for say £11,000 the extended warranty won't cover a major repair like mine. Luckily as I've owned mine from new the limit is around £38,000 as I purchased new. Hopefully yours won't be a crankshaft failure but it's a known BMW i3 issue with a service sheet in their diagnostics which BMW Assist gave me a copy of.
@@markrhodes4144 Interesting: I've heard of BMW replacing Rex engines, but never the reason. Tbh BMW dealers have always been notorious for replacing big expensive lumps when a small part was all that was needed, I wasn't too worried. In this case though, the engine sounds mightily rough when starting (or 'starting'.). You don't know where I could access the TSB I suppose?
Many thanks for your reply, very much appreciated!
@@rusty911s2 I have screenshots of the pages relevant to a Rex that is noisy and / or won't start and reports misfire on cylinders. but I can't post images as a comment on here, so don't know how I can get them to you.
I love my 2016 i3 Rex I picked it up for $8k 71k miles. It has been a great car so far only owned it for a few months and I did have some suspension clunks replaced struts but still need something as there is still a small noise (most likely bushings it’s a BMW after all 😂. Mine has 16.8 kapa which does stress me out if I’m honest.
3.5 miles per kW seems poor for a single motor polestar through slow London traffic? My Dual motor Model 3 would be doing 4.5-5.0. A single motor model 3 would be a good 35-40% more efficient.
My 2000 BMW 323i is dying and I need a commuter. Should I just go ahead and buy a high mileage one?
It's definitely worth considering.
Thanks, many ICE cars with 100K miles , the engine will be getting a bit tired , so this is impressive.
This BMW will make a good car for the person with the right mileage profile, say 50 mile daily commute with home or work charging, and the occasional long journey.
79p/kWh! That's more expensive at 4miles/l than it would cost to drive on the petrol range extender?
I tend to prefer the REx, at current fuel/public charging prices. The REx delivers electricity on the move for ~60p/kWh at my local petrol station fuel price of 144.7p/l.
The majority of EV driving is done using home charging at around 8pkwh. 2 pence per mile.
@@solentbum Nobody can fault the money-saving and convenience propositions EVs present to people who can charge at home. That's not all people.
How is the comfort on the motorway, I heard it very uncomfortable on long distance?
It is great. But I have an S with a wider track, lowered and with wheel spacers. Even wheel spacers on the Base i3 make a big difference on the highway
I have a standard i3 and have no issues with comfort or stability on motorways. The narrow tyres does mean it can occasionally tramline a bit but it's not at all an issue. The standard i3 has more compliant suspension than the i3S but that's not a benefit on motorways.
That said, it's not designed to be a motorway cruiser so it's obviously not as comfortable as a larger car.
We have an i3 and a large SUV and we take the i3 for as many trips as possible, even if it is on motorways.
They are completely fine. Of course not at the same standard as a 7-Series, but it will handle the occasional longer trip without any problems. The seats are quite supportive and it's a nice place to spend time in.
my 120ah i3 is great fun to drive but you do have to go over sleeping policemen very slowly otherwise it gives you an uncomfortable jolt other than that the suspension is fine, i do find that the car can wander a bit with high crosswinds at speed.
An ex Bmw service manager said the i3 was the most reliable bmw he ever dealt with
I am up to 370,000kms in my 2017 BMW i3 and it is working great, the only issue has been the REX failing due to lack of use
Impressive mileage!
I have only recently bought my car and have experienced this twice whilst in pedal.
79p per Kw on the services! Some of the prices are shocking!
I'm currently on 9p at home!
The 400v traction battery on the i3 will outlive us all. The 12v battery is another story. My i3 has done 100 000 km and I'm about to install the FOURTH 12v battery. It is a tiny little unit (I've seen bigger batteries on motorbikes) and it has to run the AC not only to keep the driver comfortable but also to cool the traction battery.
I'd say you've been unlucky. Your 100,000km is about 62,500 miles, and my 56,000 mile 2016 i3 is still happy on it's orginal 12V battery, and I know I'm not alone in having long-lived batteries. Have you been buying BMW replacements? Do they get coded so the car knows it is a new battery?
The 12V battery is actually a motorbike battery. However, it does not run the AC as such. The AC compressor is powered from the traction battery HV system and the AC cabin fan and coolant pump(s) are powered from the 12V system only when the ignition is on with the DC-DC converter running, so also indirectly from the traction battery.
How many ice cars are good after one Hundred Thousand Miles
I think you’re wrong about warranty. Only i3s produced after 2020 have the 8 year and 160.000km warranty. Am I right?
That's right but also the "normal" I3.
Greetings from Germany
Wisely should join me, and others, in complaining to the national government (DVLA) and London (TfL) that the i3 Rex IS NOT A HYBRID, it can run as a BEV in all low emissions areas. A hybrid has a HYBRID DRIVETRAIN, the i3 doesn't.
What software are you using on the tablet?
You shouldn't keep the battery between 10-90%
Ideally 15-85% which is even better for battery longevity
Also, fast charging is best avoided unless absolutely needed.
I wish I had someone like this man to give it to me straight re: my 2014 bev which I think I really overpaid for. It's working fine but every time I see a video like this I feel like I won't get much for it when I sell. I love it for in town driving but I can't go on trips. It's so limited. Sigh.
try to see if you can get a newer larger capacity battery, I'm sure there are some around.
@@stephensharp975 Really? I didn't know this was possible. Where does one find this? Thanks for the suggestion.
@@mellow5123 when the i3 was released BMW said that when your old battery needed replacing they could upgrade the battery to a bigger capacity one if you wanted too. This means that it is feasible from a technical perspective, I think BMW would charge a lot of money for it but i should be possible to look for a second hand one, maybe from a wreaked I3 and get a EV specialist to do it for you. i just had a look and in Europe you can get a 120 AH battery for about 8k euros I have a 120AH I3 that shows up to 325km max after 120,000 kms.
BMW offered to upgrade the battery to later versions although BMW will be expensive. I think that you can get a used i3 120ah battery for about 8k Euros, and maybe try to get a specialist to do it for you. FYI my 120ah i3 shows 325km max range on good day in summer. think that the new mini EV has same battery cells as I3 but i would confirm this with someone more knowledgeable than me.
I could think considering real life daily useability the battery degradation is not that much to complain in bmw i3 segment, what is getting worse over time and miles, is increasing energy consumption from the drivetrain itself because factory numbers claimed about 12.8kwh on 100km and the last numbers prove a real world consumption over 14,5 kwh+ so non climate on/ non heating >> this mater will be a bigger issue in the future price/kwh cost....
what is the app being used on the iPad?
I thought that Kappa Max was unreliable. No?
I have a 2018 42.2kwh fully-electric i3 @ 60k miles. I've only lost 8% of my battery. 😌
Question for the experts from wisely, do you charge your cars to 80% or 100%? Do you believe there is an issue routinely charging to 100%?
Depends on the car.
With i3s we are happy to charge to 100% as they have quite a sizeable hidden buffer at the top of the battery.
@@wiselyautoThat's it. To care/keep the SOH!
And BMW theirselfes say in owners Manual to go for the 100%.❤🤠👍
Best regards from Germany
P. S. @Wisely very good Vids! 💪🤜🤛👍
2020 i3s REx in US, loaded with leather, iDrive Pro nav, sunroof, HK audio, driving assist, PDC, adaptive lights. Currently my only car, used to be my city car, longer trips are done by a B9 Audi A5, but thats gone. Pretty good in the slow speeds, lacking a bit of top end power. Pretty useable in town, acceptable on motorway cruising at 70-75, not really the most stable car at higher speeds, nor the quietest. Not the most practical car since the boot is a bit small, enough for grocery getting, not that great for ikea hauls. For longer trips, the REx is great since I don't need to find a charger every 120 mi, just fire up the range hold and refuel it every 50-60 mi. But the driving experience is very boring, overall pretty good as a grocery getter with super low running cost.
Boring driving experience? I think it's a blast. Got rid of my R8 as a daily driver for one. Was gonna upgrade to a Taycan Sport Turismo but I really didn't enjoy driving the Porsche, it was cramped and far less pleasant to be in than the i3s - worst of all the hatchback opening of the Taycan is way smaller than the i3's opening!
If it had an engine (more than a 0.6l twin cylinder) that BMW was more than happy to make profits through regular parts and servicing, there wouldn't be such a scandalous neglect of servicing.
Over promise unless you're selling diesels.
Rather telling that its the petrol engine that gives the problems. I wonder what the BBQ fans have to say about that 😊
Worth reminding people that going for a 350 is totally unnecessary?
I know that you know, but you know who doesn't? Seemingly everyone!
Just get a Prius, laugh at high mileage, make great taxis and original models still running around happily.
🇸🇪👋👋
Specs completely outclassed by current offerings from China. “Fully charged overnight” LOL
Hi Wisely - I bought an '18 i3 REX from a BMW dealer but then returned it a day later because I got scared off by this noise: th-cam.com/video/QhCkAyj16vY/w-d-xo.html
Have you heard this noise before?
We have indeed... and we'd have picked up on it during sale preparation! Feel free to get in touch for a stocklist if you fancy giving i3 ownership another ago
@@wiselyauto Could you elaborate? What are some possible sources of the noise from best to worst case scenarios? How common is it? Should i3 buyers be listening and checking for the noise during a test drive?
The noise is caused by a failure within the e-transmission unit. It isn't common, and not something buyers should need to be checking or listening out for when purchasing an i3 from us.
@@wiselyauto As much I'd love to buy from wisely, I'm in Canada unfortunately. Would you be willing to share one more bit of your expert insight? Would this be fixed by replacing the entire transaxle? Or would the fix be to open the trans and replace just the bearings?
BMW generally only offer their transmissions as sealed units, with no official supply of internals. The situation for the i3 is much the same. The transmission would be replaced and, in the grand scheme of things, this is a fairly inexpensive component here in the UK at £695 + VAT.
No thanks.
weird to hear european guy always talking in mile per hour, wtf?
This extra range engine makes 0 sense. Why not just more bateries for range extender engine price. That will give extended range. Or just buy a hybrid. Is this fake name for hybrid? Bmw has too many engines just lying around?
Why are you driving around illegally? Trade plates should be on the outside of the car.
Model Y SR - half the price, double the range on battery, no ICE to change fluids, 25 minut charge 10-80%. Cannot care less for this BMW. Been from Portugal to Spain and back last month. 120 Km/h speed all the way and 160 Wh/km. Why does people still admire PHEV is a unknown for me.
There is no such thing as a model y sr for half the price of i3 in comparable condition
And i3 is not a phev
The Model Y drives like a mini-van. The i3 isn't a PHEV. Some have generators as an option, some are just Pure BEV
Please tell me where I can buy a used model Y of same age and km for half the price of a used i3. I will buy one immediately!
i3 is the future classic, Model Y is just another Tesla...
Mguy Australia would hate to know this.