Update: The EU had requested Apple provide “more information” to justify banning Epic www.theverge.com/2024/3/7/24093132/eu-regulators-want-to-know-why-apple-banned-epics-dev-account
Apple Fanboy??? I mean ok there are many people blinded by the light of the golden cage... But A Tim Sweeney Fanboy? WTF. Isn't he the most avid saboteur of gaming on Linux there is? All in all , I think it's great how much off butthurtness Apple shows... I'm celebrating it!!! Also I wish Apple will have to pay up for all the lost revenue of Epic thanks to their practices. Best be what ever low level technical employee executed the bans on Epic accounts created email or other documentation to cover their ass. In order one day these Emails get leaked the crimes that the Apple leadership are committing casually everyday are unveiled to the public. It was a disservice to the world that Gates rescued Apple. Still! Epic should support gaming on Linux or shut the up about other plattforms disadvantaging him.
Imagine if apple banning epic this time, causes the eu to clarify that they can’t even have any control over these app stores, and must allow sideloading with 0 restrictions
@@JosifovGjorgiit’s actually, luckily and surprisingly, much worse. Failure to comply with DMA is a fine of (up to) 10% of your global annual turnover. For Apple, that’s $38.6 billion. If you’re a repeat offender, it’s (up to) 20% of your global annual turnover, which would be $77.2 billion dollars. This is extremely good news, Apple cannot ignore a fine that large. I can’t wait until customers and US regulators see the benefits and force Apple to release these terms globally (in my dreams of course)
From what I've seen of their vr device, in a few videos, if the front glass breaks they send a new device instead of fixing the glass. Might have used too strong of a glue, lol. For $800 maybe they ship the glass damaged unit to some place to refurbish and resell.
@@Utrilus Glue is not an excuse for shipping new device instead of fixing what's really broken. Every adhesive have dilutent/solvent available to loosen it.
@@Utrilus Yup. I saw a user on reddit mention that and what he did was 3D print a plastic cover isntead of the glass which is lighter and more durable.
@@UtrilusYes, because they use parts pairing to such a wild extent on the Vision Pro that if you replace anything except the outer shell with a component from a different unit it will not turn on.
They stopped innovating a long time ago. By now they are just rebranding features Android devices had years ago as the newest shit in town. Apple are masters of marketing nothing more.
As someone who makes games, mostly free ones, Apple seem to forget that if it wasn't for the indie dev, they wouldn't have an appstore and history would view the iPhone oh so differently. They are sticking 2 fingers up at developers and consumers, unless those consumers are happy paying 30% more for subscriptions and services purchased on Apple devices, for no reason other than greed. Apple do not offer 30% worth of support and services to developers, we already pay an annual fee and the fact Apple is one of the biggest publishers of games, without actually making a single game, tells you the story. The EU needs to throw the book at Apple and slap a fine 10% of global revenue. Tim Crook only understands money, so hit the runt where it hurts.
Oh no, a cheaper option that might use less secure means of protecting my payment information. Worst case I just need to dispute charges in the future, something I likely would've had to do in the future anyways just because of the world being the way it is.
Apple always has been a shady, malicious company, especially towards it's customers, whom they milk for every penny on every opportunity. But to see them as spiteful children trashing against rules mama EU has imposed and then lashing out at every opportunity is a new low.
@@88heiling sorry to tell you Google is actually worse, you have no idea to what length Google is willing to go to collect information and sell them to other companies or use it to enrich other services without your consent. But this is similar to the politics anyway, people can only pick the lesser evil.
I've said it before and will say it again: Apple is a shit company, abusing its powers substantially more than other companies of similar scale (who are doing plenty wrong themselves, just not on this magnitude), and consumers still supporting them are only making the problem worse. It's not just their position as gatekeeper, but also right to repair, blaming users for engineering mistakes (you're holding it wrong, bendgate, butterfly keyboards, thermal throttling, ...), failing to provide the minimal legal warranties in the EU, you name it. I'd love to EU to set an example of this malicious compliance as well Apple's other BS behaviors.
Start a company, make it a hit, and suddenly, folks who did nothing to help want a piece of the action. They announce to everyone that they're after YOUR customers, looking to cash in on your success. Then if you say no, suddenly you're labeled a shit company abusing its powers, all because you just wanted to run your business in peace. I would like to see you in this position before talking shit 🙄🙄🙄
@@arnaudlabonne265 And people like you is why apple users get a bad rep. Stop licking their boots, they don't need you to defend them, they have more than enough money to buy PR and pay lawyers if needed.
@@arnaudlabonne265😢 Oh no, would somebody please think of the poor trillion dollar company. I feel so sorry for apple, that poor thing just wanted to make money in peace 😢😢
As much as i hate Epic for killing the Unreal franchise for a stupid children's game, they're doing the right thing here - fighting a shady, malicious giant that no one else has the balls and financial means to tackle.
A closed garden of rotten apple. They are surfing on the value of their name but they are tarnishing it. It's overpriced, not repairable and only care about the cash they make. I hate them.
I don't understand how needing the permission of the gatekeeper to launch its competitor is in any world a viable option? Why is it even there in the first place? Shouldn't the users be able to install the marketplace app like an apk for Android? Why is that not the first and foremost way to comply with the law like this? Doesn't the DMA make sideloading a possibility? Why do you still need their permission is beyond me and I hope the regulators as well. Make it make sense! Why do you need their permission in the first place? I truly hope EU hands Apple a big fine and make sure they comply. This is so ridiculous.
yeah its absolute bs, but apple is just going into a legal gray area by misinterpreting the law, but honestly the eu will either not do anything for another 2 years, or slap a fine so massive that apple's stocks fall by a major amount
Taking a guess at the specifics here but considering its apple they are probably going down the route of "You can side load but only if it's signed by us cause we still want ot approve even if its not approved for the app store itself" so the epic game store needs to be created under a creator account and signed before being allowed to be installed. In short casue apple sucks to no end and are trying to go around the spirit of the DMA which never worked out well for others but they think theyre big enough to bully the EU commission into letting them
Because it's called malicious compliance. Apple still wants to act as the gatekeeper, being able to remove apps or charge for them, even for third-party stores. They basically mocked the DMA law and showed EU regulators the middle finger.
You don't. Apple devices have a cryptographic signature, which means it can only load iOS. Technically, you don't even own the hardware you paid for because Apple does not let you run a different operating system on it. It’s like buying a car, but the key is owned by the manufacturer, and you need to ask him for permission every time you want to turn the car on. @@tenslider6722
@@tenslider6722You don't even own that. You're just paying us for the privilege to use that little electronic device. You can't repair it yourself are you nuts? . . . The EU didn't like that. Fine, you can _try_ to repair it yourself -Apple.
@@JerryPallath It become more obvious when some heavy weights stepped in like EPIC or EU ... I believe they crippled and screwed small developers and destroyed their business for a long looooong time, but no one noticed .....
Apple's been like this since the 80s. The early compact Macs were actually using the same overpriced, non-upgradable proprietary model that iPhones do. They were also such a failure that Jobs got fired, because he ran around behind everyone's back to make the Macintosh. Apple was actually the best behaved in the 90s, when Jobs wasn't with the company, and they were doing badly, because they couldn't afford act like a thousand pound gorilla.
No amount of this so called "inovation" wont make me even consider subscribing to the absurdities of apple. I prefer sticking to and respecting industry standards.
I'm nobody's fanboy, but having used Macs since 1990 I obviously appreciate and have mostly enjoyed the way that all the many versions of Apple's OS's I've used have worked as a solid platform to run creative applications. It's important to remember that all the EU is requiring Apple to do is to allow users and developers EXACTLY the same freedoms historically and currently available on MacOS but which are strictly forbidden on iOS. This is all the more absurd and patently malicious now that Apple Silicon is universal across all Apple hardware - Apple just know better than to expect their MacOS user base to accept constraints and restrictions on what they can and cannot do with their desktop computers. Despite the distinction between desktop and tablet and phone based computing being mostly irrelevent, the general public's ignorant perception that they're different is a gravy train Apple will ride for as long as regulators and legislators allow.
Do you think you own your macbooks and can do whatever with it? Apple has DRM to prevent repair on it and I wouldn't be surprised if they also had a backdoor to remotely brick it whenever they feel like, they just afraid to use it and be caught because mac users are usually a bit more tech savy than phone users
@@slaynnyt8130You're probably right re Apple Silicon Macs - which I don't own and have no intention of ever owning. My youngest Mac is a 2012 MBP because it was the last one that was upgradeable. My other Macs are all hackintoshes.
I'll be honest: if anybody believes that Apple used to be some kind of bastion of honesty in the past (or even of innovation), they're just fucking delusional. Apple was NEVER about honesty, nor innovation. Their scummy tactics were with them from the start. Just look at their claims as far as 30 years back about how they "invented" the mouse (they didn't). They were never honest. They never innovated. The sooner people come to terms with these simple facts, the easier it is to expose Apple for the piece of garbage it is, and ultimately the better for everybody.
_their claims as far as 30 years back about how they "invented" the mouse_ Never heard of this. It would be a bit stupid for Apple to claim the invention of a device that had been around 10 years before the foundation of the company. Is this another "quote" like "you're holding it wrong", the famous phrase nobody at Apple ever said? In that case, I have a bridge AND a leaning tower to sell you.
please daddy apple, please let me install what I want on my property that i paid $1000+ for. Pleaaaaseee.. 🦆you apple. You don't own Apple products. You rent them for a one time fee.
Tim cook is numbers guy and you can see that is manifesting in their products too. For example Mac Pro it is just PC case version of Mac Studio Highly customizable Mac Pro with separate CPU and separate GPU from Apple. This will cost Apple too much to produce, because sales units are very small even for TSMC to consider to produce at certain price and only Jobs can make a case for this kind of spending In the PC world it is easy to build "Mac Pro" customizable machine, because main use-case for Intel/Amd CPUs is the servers. AMD Threadripper and Intel Xeon CPU are coming from same production line as the servers CPU and they are modified later on. This is why Apple combo of CPUs+GPU are mobile first and they are modified later for pro users, however this can only scale up to a point Intel Xeons / AMD Threadripper can have 2TB of RAM and 100+ PCIe Lanes and Apple most powerful CPU can have only support 192 GB of RAM as desktop PC Because, Tim Cook is a numbers guy - they lost the workstation market I know the excuses - who needs 2TB of RAM or 64/96 Cores That is why the workstation market is very small market in sold units. and this is the mindset that is working against software producers milk them as much as possible, while providing as little as possible and lie how much Apple provide resources
My only problem with "numbers guys" is that they can't see things which are not 100% quantifiable and end up cutting out important processes, as you have described very well here.
I can't imagine a proprietary messaging system and the ability to not have easily accessible control over your file system being worth putting up with living in a closed ecosystem like that.
This is exactly why there is a need for politicians who actually know what they are talking about and do act in good faith (I know, unrealistic) because it takes so much more than that to strong arm Apple into compliance.
Apple is finally starting to get what they deserve for the past 20 years. Very satisfying to see there's still justice in the world. I hope that people are slowly waking up and stop drinking the kool-aid.
Apple is willfully noncomplying with the spirit of the DMA, by technically complying but attaching so much extra red tape around what the DMA says they must allow, that they might as well NOT be in compliance. And this is because the DMA was written by people who are not developers, and it doesn't take into account what is overreaching by a gateway company. As a 3rd Party Marketplace, Apple should have ZERO intractability with anything involved on that marketplace. The only thing apple should be able to do, is make it so that 3rd party marketplaces, and apps distributed from said marketplaces, have no ability to backup data to iCloud, and they would be well within their rights to do just that. Leaving it to those marketplaces to work out their own data backup systems. That would be a perfectly reasonable boundary to set. But no, apple wants to overtax the existence of 3rd party markets on their iOS devices in the name of "quality, and safety" when it is a blatant act of "greed and avarice." I just keep watching this in hopes that EU Legislators see this continued fight between apple and epic, seeing that as much as I don't really care about epic, they are the only ones with the stones to keep calling out apple on their crap from a corporation vs corporation standpoint. Epic should be talking with the EU legislators in tightening the standards for the DMA to make this kind of overreach impossible. 3rd Party applications should not be subject to any apple oversight, though apple should still retain the ability to bar those applications from apple owned services, such as iCloud. No one should be paying a developer license fee or any form of 'tax' to apple if they are distributing away from the apple app store.
Great coverage overall but Apple has ALWAYS been hostile to developers. Also it is worth mentioning that their gross profit in 2023 was $169.148B. That is cash in the bank profit after deducting expenses.
Just don't but apple products. Why do you need EU to step in and tell them to open up a little bit, when you can get: 1) cheaper 2) more open 3) with more features 4) overall better experience somewhere else. I really don't get why anyone would use Apple. Seriously. Just don't buy from the company that thinks you are stupid and will pay for overpriced junk with closed software.
The problem is there are too many rich people and they all use iPhones. Developers need to make sure they reach as many users as possible so they're forced to develop for apple. But Apple is so fucking pathetic that you can't develop for iOS if you don't own a Mac, so millions of companies and employees buy macbooks just to support iOS users. You can see how Apple benefits from all of this bullshit as their products are so shit that you can't even repair a broken battery easily.
I used to be a Windows Android guy but bought fully in to the Apple ecosystem and it's great for the most part but seriously WTF Apple? Give me a break with this anti competitive, consumer hostile BS, how more Apple fanboys can't be critical of "the one they love", such as Jon Prosser, is just so effing pathetic.
Other app stores are massive liabilities for Apple and their users, no wonder they can’t accept one where the provider has proven that they planned for intentionally breaking their agreements. Epic succeeded in opening the door, but for good reasons they can’t walk through it themselves. The strategy Epic used worked for allowing other app stores, but not their own.
It doesn't matter what side you're on. In the same way that Tim Sweeney is free to tweet what he wants, Apple is free to respond the way it wants. As a businessman, its idiotic to throw diplomacy out the window because you are seeking fanboy approval. The fact that he's surprised and is continuing to air out his grievances with the public is foolish. He knows anything he says will be amplified, the media loves a public battle.
What Apple did should be illegal, and probably is. At the same time, video title is clickbait and Theo ignores what Apple said - nothing to do with a Tweet, everything to do with “you fucked us, now we won’t play”. I feel its a bit dishonest to ignore the fact that Apple isn’t lying here, although what they are doing is illegal.
You know it's bullshit when someone's monetization attempt is characterized repeatedly by Apple as a breach of "security, safety and privacy." They don't even have the nerve to say "we want the money for ourselves!" And while it's perfectly fine to rub that breach of contract in their faces, unless they have terms that say "breach once, banned forever," it makes them look like greedy liars when it comes to regulatory compliance, bringing up the past and nonsensical reasons, instead of just letting them cut their own branch from under their feet, if they're so sure it's likely to happen again. They're terrible, and their strong stance against openness is what kept me away from their products. I don't care how great the hardware is, if the company is that villain who gets out of their way to stop you from doing what you want with the thing you bought. And then they claim it's all for your security, safety and privacy.
@@murtadha96 Apple is a company, you don't have to love/like it. Apple fanboy is different from who just likes Apple Products. Apple fanboy never criticizes, & will curse you if you criticize anything made by Apple. I have seen people justifying $1000 Pro Stand, *its a freaking stand*
Apple in the 2020s is acting like Microsoft in the late '90s-2000s. Native mobile apps and the ability of OS vendors to dictate all terms related to them is as if MS had succeeded in Embrace Extend Extinguishing the web and then also had eaten the PC market and locked out other operating systems from running on x86.
So... Apple fanboy is getting more and more redpilled? Being fanboy to anything, to be honest, shouldn't be a thing in professional world. You can be a fan and have preferences, but everything have limits. It's what Louis Rossmann says, but in more HW-wise fashion towards Apple and other companies. That's the dark side of walled gardens and now suddenly people start to awaken, interesting...
Yeah it's great that the EGS is good for devs but it's literally an awful platform for consumers, it's missing core features that are present on competing vendors platforms and hasn't been improved significantly in half a decade, it's kinda wild to obfuscate information like that and misrepresent why a store front isn't actually liked by most people. I'd much rather have the feature set of a platform like steam and have the devs take a bigger cut since they wouldn't ever even consider offering the features steam offers, this forces devs to make sure the storefront that manages the applications is actually funded and performs well for the consumers instead of just making them more wealthy :)
Epic asks questions which Apple is supposed to answer to comply with the DMA regulations, but instead of answering, they close the account. Maybe because all their compliance is total BS in the first place. Apple never had the intention to allow a real app store on their devices (they might have under some unknown company they control just for the public opinion...). It's all just show and deception. Once someone started to ask the real questions, Apple would be either liable if they broke them in the future, so they just terminated the account. To resume, Apple is afraid that Epic having the financial resources might actually really launch a store and make Apple abide by their own terms. Terms Apple made maliciously but never had the intention to follow. This resumes the whole story. Apple behaves more and more like a criminal entity run by a gang of mobsters.
Being a developer, although I've never published anything publicly, I wouldn't trust Apple for the exact same reasons Apple don't trust Epic (In their view). Seriously, on a WHIM, without consultation, they'll yank someone product and access because years later, it's now competitive. I flip'n (I use this word because I try hard to keep my posts PG) hate Apple and their treatment to developers. I literally, only allow Apple products on my LAN because my wife has to use it for work, and/or I want to stay married to her. Otherwise, I'd be blocking anything and everything to do with Apple on my network. If I detected an Apple device, it'd get stopped before it got an IP address.
my main worry about the new iOS apps is the rule that says it can only be on one app store. In the future, everyone will need to have like 50 app stores because they are all on different stores.
Tim Sweeny to Apple: I love you guys, it's just, that, can you go back to your roots? Apple: I'm sorry, roots? We have no idea what you mean. We were always this way.
The cynic and realist in me is not at all surprised, this is just management going mask off. For as long as I've been aware of their walled garden MO, I've disliked and avoided them. They've always been like this, overly controlling, fickle... What surprises me is that this didn't happen sooner. To be less charitable They behave like a petulant child throwing its parents money around to get what it wants
im still really confused how they can dictate terms for 3rd party app stores surly they just just have to allow to install the store (or any app) from a file and the 3rd party stores would have nothing to do with apple at all other than being on an Iphone
I wonder if they could go like "okay, but it's our OS, we don't want that capability there. You can build and install your own OS to install any app, though, just don't expect _our_ silicon to handle it as well as _ours_ " or something like that
Actually even right now it's technically possible to have a third party "store" not in the same sense as a marketplace because they don't allow it. But it is possible since IOS was created, there is this protocol SYNC ML, you can build and MDM (Mobile device management) server on top of that, IOS functions by design with such server that is used to install applications, remove and restrict certain applications based on configuration profiles. The process of creating your own MDM server is really lengthy and only (currently) allowed under, a partnership agreement with Apple, only for enterprise customers and enterprise needs, think of it as company management solutions, schools, tools that phone distributors such as AT&T, Verizon use to sell lease phones, so they can have control over them in case a device is not being paid, they can simply disable it, or geo locate it. So to answer the initial question that's how they are going to do it, in order to make the thing work you need a certificate that is only issued by apple, it's a complicated process but you generate a certificate from your company and you issue a CSR that you send to apple which eventually gets validated with the chain of certificates and you get an active MDM certificate that is active for an year. With that certificate you can enroll devices into your own MDM server, and issue commands to those devices using a thing that apple calls "Push magic token" (I know it's stupid, like anything apple names) and in theory you can build a third party store that has lots of apps and anyone can upload anything but apple can still have a whitelist of applications that can be installed and still have the option to disable a store, or a certain application on a third party store as you can very much figure out if you read trough the explanation of how the protocol works simply send a MDM command to the device to remove the app, or block it entirely.
@@thewhitefalcon8539 you can download stuff from third party stores albeit you need to reinstall it every so often as its certificates expire. iOS is actually more lenient than people think, even in a nonjailbroken state.
I don't feel bad for Sweeney, but I feel bad for the Apple users. Epic Games Store is doing the timed exclusive bs, that I hate on consoles + they block Fortnite on purpose for Steam Deck / Linux, even though it runs great, it's just locked.
Apple doesn't seem to realise the EU is going to take this pretty badly and Apple should remember what happened with microsoft, facebook, google. They have absolutely no choice but comply.
"...History shows, however, that Epic is verifiably untrustworthy..." Wow, now *there's* the pot calling the kettle black! Apple's "walled garden" is surrounded by razor-wire. I may have a MacBookPro that I boot up every few months, but pretty much everything I run there is open-source (CCC being the ONLY application I bought for it). I don't buy from Apple's disastrous App Store. But as for abandoning iOS for Android, that may not be as good of an option as it may seem. Google are just as arrogant assholes as Apple (probably more). Android just has the ability to sideload without hacking the system (except I expect for certain brand phones). In general, don't ever put your dependence on Apple, Microsoft, Google, Amazon, etc.
Tim Sweeney is a model of leadership. It is risky and difficult to take a position like this, because he will definitely be feeling pressure to capitulate to Apple.
So Epic wants to distribute their own app store through DMA and to sell an app-store-native fortnite version. Well how funny, because Apple's own DMA developer agreements specify strictly - You either use our own store, or a 3rd-party store. And only one at a time.
Despite Apple’s many many many faults, this move makes lots of sense to me. Well, I can understand the justification they provide. Epic in the past agreed to a contract, then intentionally broke it, and leveraged Apples reaction against them. And cost Apple lots of time, money, and and bad press. Now they’re still actively talking shit about Apple while saying, trust us, we won’t do it again. I do still appreciate that a company just looking to optimize its profits is fighting with another company that’s just trying to optimize its profits, hopefully the result is maybe that the only true winners are the consumers.
Apple is a lot like Sheldon Cooper, a whiny little shit who will pout until he gets his way and no matter how childish he gets with his friends/family they always give him a pass except I'm talking about a fictional character in a comedy that uses satire to get a laugh out of the audience, Apple is REAL. 👀
Hopefully the eu will rewrite a more concrete set of laws that will force apple to comply with true and absolute sideloading and fine them 10s to 100s of billions if they don’t comply, forcing them to comply or F off. I want freedom to do what I like on products I have purchased.
The entire idea of "we can't trust you to not break the rules" should be illegal. Until they ACTUALLY break rule -- you shouldn't be able to just kick them. Sure, it's "their platform" and they "can do whatever they want," but there comes a point where a platform becomes so big, that there needs to be some regulation -- as not having IOS access, is such a huge disadvantage, they are essentially a monopoly.
Well, no. It's not their platform. Once you've bought the device it's yours to with as you please. It's the same as a piece of furniture in that regard and Apple should be punished heavily for this. I'd suggest everyone boycott them, but people are zombies so that won't happen.
Realistically... The hit to Apple's revenues / profits / stock price from having the App Store challenged would likely be monstrous. And the risk of similar things happening for the Vision Pro could potentially ruin their long term outlook (and stock price again). Without seeing Apple's projections, it's difficult to know how serious this is for them, and thus how important to make sure that this idea fails. Just because they have money in the bank today doesn't automatically mean that they will tomorrow if their business model is broken.
I'm happy to start phasing out my Apple devices slowly. First will be replacing my iPhone 14 Pro Max with the Google Pixel 9 Pro when that's released. At that point, I can already opt out of pretty much all Apple services (as well as on my MacBook). When the M1 Max shows its age, I'm sure by then, AMD's APUs will be pretty comparable to what Apple will offer in their laptop line.
Apple is not the same company I grew up knowing... I used to love their products and their ecosystem. now I can't respect them no matter how good their products may be. I despise everything they stand for. It used to be the complete opposite.
Ah Apple. It could be so different so easily. I want to be able to create and load my own apps directly without the app store. It makes me wish Microsoft kept going with the windows phone.
Considering the fairly massive cuts and redundancies that Epic made in the last year, I do wonder whether Apple is just relying on the fact that Epic can't afford to fight this battle forever.
I hope Linux Mobile devices get as good as the desktop has, seriously Google or Apple, will just keep getting more trash the closer they get to losing power and being forced to actually compete.
I'm going to have to side with Apple on this one, if you did the same thing with the Unreal engine and tried to get out of paying as a developer and it got Sweeney's attention the dude would literally act the same way. They are both hot garbage.
Theo, I have been a iOS and macOS developer since 2014 and I have watched myself from admiring Apple to absolutely hating their guts these past few years. You can be more critical of Apple in your videos. You have a voice and if you did along with prominent influencers I believe and hope Apple would mend its ways
Cool, but I'll never forgive them for using bandcamp, lieing that they where using them, and then throwing it away when they where done using them. Fuck epic too.
Sorry, but the EU's legislation is cucked What they should've done is force Apple to allow to install apps with an installer just like you can do on Android
I wouldn't trust anything that Sweeney says - he highlights a tweet from Feb 26th, while Apple sent them a letter on the 23rd. “In the past, Epic has entered into agreements with Apple and then broken them,” Schiller reminds the game maker in the letter dated February 23, 2024. “You also testified that Epic deliberately violated Apple’s rules, to make a point and for financial gain. More recently, you have described our DMA compliance as ‘hot garbage,’ a ‘horror show,’ and a ‘devious new instance of Malicious Compliance.’ And you have complained about what you called ‘Junk Fees’ and ‘Apple taxes.” Schiller suggests that Epic’s “colorful criticism” combined with its past actions “strongly suggests that Epic Sweden does not intend to follow the rules.” He adds that another intentional breach could “threaten the integrity of the iOS platform, as well as the security and privacy of users.” “…in plain, unqualified terms, please tell us why we should trust Epic at this time,” he concludes. ---- It is a mess regardless, apple is going downhill quickly behaving like this.
From a security standpoint what apple says is "we know our users are dumb so we want to restrict all ability to install things using tools we don't own, just look how people install things on android and windows and get hacked"
Ngl, I expect Apple leadership to change pretty drastically if they continue down this path. There's only so much board members will deal with before the company goes bankrupt
Would it be against Apple's terms to itemize a digital purchase in an app to show Apple's cut? i.e. Purchase $10.00, Apple surcharge $4.29, Total $14.29. Maybe some people would see that and get the idea that they might be able to go to your website and make the same purchace for $10 flat.
btw Apple also rejected to work with NVIDIA. Smells same way I guess. They start support only AMD GPUs and then released their own solution on M-chips. I started my Apple journey with hackintosh on Intel+NVIDIA and it worked great, much better in term of performance than latest maxed intel macbook. But because of their decision first I switched my GPU to AMD, and later purchased macbook laptop. Good for them - because they got my money, bad for me - because I lost a lot of productivity cuz macbook not even close to compute performance of modern gaming PC.
The problem is that ultimately its EU customers who pay for the fines caused by Apple's illegal acts - compare the converted prices from the US and say, French stores - they are consistently 150+ dollars more on the latter.
I think Apple has always wanted to be an overlord beloved by consumers... Partner to developers (or anyone else - including consumers), has never truly been there thing. If they were people focused, they wouldn't have gone the route of very high prices and margins that reduce access to many would be consumers. They're fundamentally self-centered and always have been. They want to be the group that defines other people's direction... Sometimes that turns out well, and sometimes not. Personally though, I still find the EU judgments to be cringe... If the consumers aren't changing their minds about wanting Apple products, then it's not the place of governments of mostly decaying countries to try and decide what others should be doing.
Epic will spend as much money as possible on things that are not supporting either DS5 (PS5) controllers or Linux distributions. Any game that I've got for free on Epic that I've liked enough to buy, I bought on Steam. The one game I bought on Epic because it was an exclusive launch, I also ended up buying on Steam. 70% of something is better than 88% or 91% of nothing.
Update: The EU had requested Apple provide “more information” to justify banning Epic www.theverge.com/2024/3/7/24093132/eu-regulators-want-to-know-why-apple-banned-epics-dev-account
Good move from EU. Let's wait what will be done from Apple side.
Apple might have gone a step too far in this case, good for us of course.
Apple Fanboy??? I mean ok there are many people blinded by the light of the golden cage...
But A Tim Sweeney Fanboy? WTF. Isn't he the most avid saboteur of gaming on Linux there is?
All in all , I think it's great how much off butthurtness Apple shows... I'm celebrating it!!!
Also I wish Apple will have to pay up for all the lost revenue of Epic thanks to their practices.
Best be what ever low level technical employee executed the bans on Epic accounts created email or other documentation to cover their ass. In order one day these Emails get leaked the crimes that the Apple leadership are committing casually everyday are unveiled to the public.
It was a disservice to the world that Gates rescued Apple.
Still! Epic should support gaming on Linux or shut the up about other plattforms disadvantaging him.
@@TremereTT this hyperbole is out of hand and you need to relax.
Imagine if apple banning epic this time, causes the eu to clarify that they can’t even have any control over these app stores, and must allow sideloading with 0 restrictions
I'm waiting the DMA to be active and EU just say No and slap another 2bil fine.
2Bil / month until they comply
@@JoeSteelML They could pay $1,056,739,726.03 per day based on their revenue. That is still a lot.
Give them the same "deal" they are giving developers using their own store, per user in the EU
@@JosifovGjorgiit’s actually, luckily and surprisingly, much worse. Failure to comply with DMA is a fine of (up to) 10% of your global annual turnover. For Apple, that’s $38.6 billion. If you’re a repeat offender, it’s (up to) 20% of your global annual turnover, which would be $77.2 billion dollars. This is extremely good news, Apple cannot ignore a fine that large. I can’t wait until customers and US regulators see the benefits and force Apple to release these terms globally (in my dreams of course)
@@hopelessdecoyYeah, fine them 30% of their gross revenue. Still have to pay taxes on the rest too.
Apple also hates repair and they Greenwash like crazy
From what I've seen of their vr device, in a few videos, if the front glass breaks they send a new device instead of fixing the glass. Might have used too strong of a glue, lol. For $800 maybe they ship the glass damaged unit to some place to refurbish and resell.
@@Utrilusits not even glass
@@Utrilus Glue is not an excuse for shipping new device instead of fixing what's really broken. Every adhesive have dilutent/solvent available to loosen it.
@@Utrilus Yup. I saw a user on reddit mention that and what he did was 3D print a plastic cover isntead of the glass which is lighter and more durable.
@@UtrilusYes, because they use parts pairing to such a wild extent on the Vision Pro that if you replace anything except the outer shell with a component from a different unit it will not turn on.
The fact apple basically said "you didn't fanboy us enough so we spite banned you" is kinda a hype move, hope they continue to innovate!
Big man apple in the sky😂😂.
Keep buying every promise and product demo you see ❤
can't wait to see what they come up with next!
They stopped innovating a long time ago. By now they are just rebranding features Android devices had years ago as the newest shit in town. Apple are masters of marketing nothing more.
I like another TH-camr's term "Unnovate"
@@ddg-norysq1464 it goes both ways. There's not much innovation on Android's side either. Can't say Android is not implementing features from iOS.
As someone who makes games, mostly free ones, Apple seem to forget that if it wasn't for the indie dev, they wouldn't have an appstore and history would view the iPhone oh so differently. They are sticking 2 fingers up at developers and consumers, unless those consumers are happy paying 30% more for subscriptions and services purchased on Apple devices, for no reason other than greed.
Apple do not offer 30% worth of support and services to developers, we already pay an annual fee and the fact Apple is one of the biggest publishers of games, without actually making a single game, tells you the story. The EU needs to throw the book at Apple and slap a fine 10% of global revenue. Tim Crook only understands money, so hit the runt where it hurts.
apple consumers ARE happy paying 30% more to have apple products. The rest don't have apple products.
“Epic broke promises that threatens user safety and privacy”
Yes, allowing a cheaper payment option definitely makes me feel threatened
😂
Oh no, a cheaper option that might use less secure means of protecting my payment information.
Worst case I just need to dispute charges in the future, something I likely would've had to do in the future anyways just because of the world being the way it is.
Apple always has been a shady, malicious company, especially towards it's customers, whom they milk for every penny on every opportunity.
But to see them as spiteful children trashing against rules mama EU has imposed and then lashing out at every opportunity is a new low.
sound more like google than apple to me
And the iSheep still defend them as if their "lives" depend on it.
@@88heiling sorry to tell you Google is actually worse, you have no idea to what length Google is willing to go to collect information and sell them to other companies or use it to enrich other services without your consent. But this is similar to the politics anyway, people can only pick the lesser evil.
@@pencilcheck how so? Are you defending Apple (at any cost) or are you attacking Google?
Is epic much better?
I've said it before and will say it again: Apple is a shit company, abusing its powers substantially more than other companies of similar scale (who are doing plenty wrong themselves, just not on this magnitude), and consumers still supporting them are only making the problem worse. It's not just their position as gatekeeper, but also right to repair, blaming users for engineering mistakes (you're holding it wrong, bendgate, butterfly keyboards, thermal throttling, ...), failing to provide the minimal legal warranties in the EU, you name it. I'd love to EU to set an example of this malicious compliance as well Apple's other BS behaviors.
This is informative and unfortunate.
Start a company, make it a hit, and suddenly, folks who did nothing to help want a piece of the action. They announce to everyone that they're after YOUR customers, looking to cash in on your success.
Then if you say no, suddenly you're labeled a shit company abusing its powers, all because you just wanted to run your business in peace.
I would like to see you in this position before talking shit 🙄🙄🙄
@@arnaudlabonne265 And people like you is why apple users get a bad rep. Stop licking their boots, they don't need you to defend them, they have more than enough money to buy PR and pay lawyers if needed.
This doesn't apply when you have more than 50% of most used device on planet and is worth more than multiple countries combined.
@@arnaudlabonne265😢 Oh no, would somebody please think of the poor trillion dollar company. I feel so sorry for apple, that poor thing just wanted to make money in peace 😢😢
Tim Apple vs Tim Epic.
The battle that will be remembered for centuries to come. Rooting for Tim Epic myself.
They both deserve to lose.
This needs an Epic Rap Battles of History
@@cascassette3412 BEGIN
As much as i hate Epic for killing the Unreal franchise for a stupid children's game, they're doing the right thing here - fighting a shady, malicious giant that no one else has the balls and financial means to tackle.
@@marcdwonn9772 Are you talking about Unreal Tournament? If so didn't expect anyone to remember in 2024 that Epic made that gem lol
A closed garden of rotten apple. They are surfing on the value of their name but they are tarnishing it. It's overpriced, not repairable and only care about the cash they make. I hate them.
I love it when you accuse someone of awful behavior and they respond with proving you 100% correct.
Unreal Engine is the downfall of Apple's future of 3D experiences if they don't ever bring it in
Problem is that most people are brainwashed af with brands like apple and will buy the apple alternative of anything just like with the vision pro.
I don't understand how needing the permission of the gatekeeper to launch its competitor is in any world a viable option? Why is it even there in the first place?
Shouldn't the users be able to install the marketplace app like an apk for Android? Why is that not the first and foremost way to comply with the law like this?
Doesn't the DMA make sideloading a possibility? Why do you still need their permission is beyond me and I hope the regulators as well.
Make it make sense!
Why do you need their permission in the first place?
I truly hope EU hands Apple a big fine and make sure they comply. This is so ridiculous.
yeah its absolute bs, but apple is just going into a legal gray area by misinterpreting the law, but honestly the eu will either not do anything for another 2 years, or slap a fine so massive that apple's stocks fall by a major amount
Apple lobbied the E.U to make it look like they were doing something with DMA (a law written by apple, for apple.). Sideloading aint happening baby!
Taking a guess at the specifics here but considering its apple they are probably going down the route of "You can side load but only if it's signed by us cause we still want ot approve even if its not approved for the app store itself" so the epic game store needs to be created under a creator account and signed before being allowed to be installed.
In short casue apple sucks to no end and are trying to go around the spirit of the DMA which never worked out well for others but they think theyre big enough to bully the EU commission into letting them
Because it's called malicious compliance. Apple still wants to act as the gatekeeper, being able to remove apps or charge for them, even for third-party stores. They basically mocked the DMA law and showed EU regulators the middle finger.
The EU must rule that it must be possible to buy an iPhone and use it without sending one byte of information to Apple. Zero. Nada.
You own the plastic/glass hardware not the software needed to run it - Apple
Not even. They go to significant lengths to stop people from using the hardware in non-apple supported ways @@tenslider6722
You don't. Apple devices have a cryptographic signature, which means it can only load iOS. Technically, you don't even own the hardware you paid for because Apple does not let you run a different operating system on it. It’s like buying a car, but the key is owned by the manufacturer, and you need to ask him for permission every time you want to turn the car on.
@@tenslider6722
@@tenslider6722
That's fine. I'll just sell my phone, and buy a guillotine instead.
@@tenslider6722You don't even own that. You're just paying us for the privilege to use that little electronic device. You can't repair it yourself are you nuts?
.
.
.
The EU didn't like that. Fine, you can _try_ to repair it yourself
-Apple.
Wow, its frustrating to see what an unethical company Apple became under Tim Cook
Apple was always unethical, it just became more obvious when theyre the market leader
Steve Jobs was not much for following rules or allowing users any freedom except the one he approved.
time cook
@@JerryPallath It become more obvious when some heavy weights stepped in like EPIC or EU ... I believe they crippled and screwed small developers and destroyed their business for a long looooong time, but no one noticed .....
Apple's been like this since the 80s. The early compact Macs were actually using the same overpriced, non-upgradable proprietary model that iPhones do. They were also such a failure that Jobs got fired, because he ran around behind everyone's back to make the Macintosh.
Apple was actually the best behaved in the 90s, when Jobs wasn't with the company, and they were doing badly, because they couldn't afford act like a thousand pound gorilla.
No amount of this so called "inovation" wont make me even consider subscribing to the absurdities of apple.
I prefer sticking to and respecting industry standards.
I'm happy I switched away from Mac and iPhone. Glossy exterior, rotten core.
I helped some of my friends moving away from Apple, and they're thankful to me to this day.
I used to have apple now for years with my husband we have Android (I've got the new ultra 24) so much better than apple 😊
I'm nobody's fanboy, but having used Macs since 1990 I obviously appreciate and have mostly enjoyed the way that all the many versions of Apple's OS's I've used have worked as a solid platform to run creative applications.
It's important to remember that all the EU is requiring Apple to do is to allow users and developers EXACTLY the same freedoms historically and currently available on MacOS but which are strictly forbidden on iOS.
This is all the more absurd and patently malicious now that Apple Silicon is universal across all Apple hardware - Apple just know better than to expect their MacOS user base to accept constraints and restrictions on what they can and cannot do with their desktop computers. Despite the distinction between desktop and tablet and phone based computing being mostly irrelevent, the general public's ignorant perception that they're different is a gravy train Apple will ride for as long as regulators and legislators allow.
Do you think you own your macbooks and can do whatever with it? Apple has DRM to prevent repair on it and I wouldn't be surprised if they also had a backdoor to remotely brick it whenever they feel like, they just afraid to use it and be caught because mac users are usually a bit more tech savy than phone users
@@slaynnyt8130You're probably right re Apple Silicon Macs - which I don't own and have no intention of ever owning. My youngest Mac is a 2012 MBP because it was the last one that was upgradeable. My other Macs are all hackintoshes.
This makes me think of the Matrix.
"But, Mr Sweeney... What good is an app store if you cannot advertise it?"
My decision to move off their ecosystem is growing more relevant by the day. What the hell...
Reminds me *goes to pay off phone*
Do it. Pull the switch. Get an android. Become free
I'll be honest: if anybody believes that Apple used to be some kind of bastion of honesty in the past (or even of innovation), they're just fucking delusional.
Apple was NEVER about honesty, nor innovation. Their scummy tactics were with them from the start.
Just look at their claims as far as 30 years back about how they "invented" the mouse (they didn't).
They were never honest.
They never innovated.
The sooner people come to terms with these simple facts, the easier it is to expose Apple for the piece of garbage it is, and ultimately the better for everybody.
_their claims as far as 30 years back about how they "invented" the mouse_
Never heard of this. It would be a bit stupid for Apple to claim the invention of a device that had been around 10 years before the foundation of the company.
Is this another "quote" like "you're holding it wrong", the famous phrase nobody at Apple ever said? In that case, I have a bridge AND a leaning tower to sell you.
I love apple, but this is facts 💯
That visionPRO Unity cut is hilarious, I had no idea but it's so obvious.
My next phone is going to be a Pixel, it's just gotten to that point.
You can get a better Android phone than one from Lying Google who already failed to support new features on Pixel 8 which is 6 months old
please daddy apple, please let me install what I want on my property that i paid $1000+ for. Pleaaaaseee..
🦆you apple. You don't own Apple products. You rent them for a one time fee.
Tim cook is numbers guy and you can see that is manifesting in their products too.
For example Mac Pro it is just PC case version of Mac Studio
Highly customizable Mac Pro with separate CPU and separate GPU from Apple. This will cost Apple too much to produce, because sales units are very small even for TSMC to consider to produce at certain price and only Jobs can make a case for this kind of spending
In the PC world it is easy to build "Mac Pro" customizable machine, because main use-case for Intel/Amd CPUs is the servers. AMD Threadripper and Intel Xeon CPU are coming from same production line as the servers CPU and they are modified later on.
This is why Apple combo of CPUs+GPU are mobile first and they are modified later for pro users, however this can only scale up to a point
Intel Xeons / AMD Threadripper can have 2TB of RAM and 100+ PCIe Lanes and Apple most powerful CPU can have only support 192 GB of RAM as desktop PC
Because, Tim Cook is a numbers guy - they lost the workstation market
I know the excuses - who needs 2TB of RAM or 64/96 Cores
That is why the workstation market is very small market in sold units.
and this is the mindset that is working against software producers
milk them as much as possible, while providing as little as possible and lie how much Apple provide resources
My only problem with "numbers guys" is that they can't see things which are not 100% quantifiable and end up cutting out important processes, as you have described very well here.
In 2024 their $6k workstation doesn’t have window snapping. It’s a joke
I can't imagine a proprietary messaging system and the ability to not have easily accessible control over your file system being worth putting up with living in a closed ecosystem like that.
What? They are the most overlord type of business for decades now.
I am an apple user and I feel like a hostage most of the days. I absolutely will try to switch platforms when time comes to upgrade
This is exactly why there is a need for politicians who actually know what they are talking about and do act in good faith (I know, unrealistic) because it takes so much more than that to strong arm Apple into compliance.
Apple is finally starting to get what they deserve for the past 20 years. Very satisfying to see there's still justice in the world. I hope that people are slowly waking up and stop drinking the kool-aid.
Apple is willfully noncomplying with the spirit of the DMA, by technically complying but attaching so much extra red tape around what the DMA says they must allow, that they might as well NOT be in compliance. And this is because the DMA was written by people who are not developers, and it doesn't take into account what is overreaching by a gateway company. As a 3rd Party Marketplace, Apple should have ZERO intractability with anything involved on that marketplace. The only thing apple should be able to do, is make it so that 3rd party marketplaces, and apps distributed from said marketplaces, have no ability to backup data to iCloud, and they would be well within their rights to do just that. Leaving it to those marketplaces to work out their own data backup systems. That would be a perfectly reasonable boundary to set. But no, apple wants to overtax the existence of 3rd party markets on their iOS devices in the name of "quality, and safety" when it is a blatant act of "greed and avarice."
I just keep watching this in hopes that EU Legislators see this continued fight between apple and epic, seeing that as much as I don't really care about epic, they are the only ones with the stones to keep calling out apple on their crap from a corporation vs corporation standpoint. Epic should be talking with the EU legislators in tightening the standards for the DMA to make this kind of overreach impossible. 3rd Party applications should not be subject to any apple oversight, though apple should still retain the ability to bar those applications from apple owned services, such as iCloud. No one should be paying a developer license fee or any form of 'tax' to apple if they are distributing away from the apple app store.
They never intended to allow this app store alternative thing to happen.
I mean its the Law, They HAVE TO Allow it!
Great coverage overall but Apple has ALWAYS been hostile to developers. Also it is worth mentioning that their gross profit in 2023 was $169.148B. That is cash in the bank profit after deducting expenses.
Just don't but apple products. Why do you need EU to step in and tell them to open up a little bit, when you can get:
1) cheaper
2) more open
3) with more features
4) overall better experience
somewhere else.
I really don't get why anyone would use Apple. Seriously. Just don't buy from the company that thinks you are stupid and will pay for overpriced junk with closed software.
The problem is there are too many rich people and they all use iPhones.
Developers need to make sure they reach as many users as possible so they're forced to develop for apple.
But Apple is so fucking pathetic that you can't develop for iOS if you don't own a Mac, so millions of companies and employees buy macbooks just to support iOS users.
You can see how Apple benefits from all of this bullshit as their products are so shit that you can't even repair a broken battery easily.
I used to be a Windows Android guy but bought fully in to the Apple ecosystem and it's great for the most part but seriously WTF Apple? Give me a break with this anti competitive, consumer hostile BS, how more Apple fanboys can't be critical of "the one they love", such as Jon Prosser, is just so effing pathetic.
love this channel, keep it up fam. random tech drama is best second monitor content for staying vaguely focused on work lmao
Other app stores are massive liabilities for Apple and their users, no wonder they can’t accept one where the provider has proven that they planned for intentionally breaking their agreements. Epic succeeded in opening the door, but for good reasons they can’t walk through it themselves. The strategy Epic used worked for allowing other app stores, but not their own.
It doesn't matter what side you're on. In the same way that Tim Sweeney is free to tweet what he wants, Apple is free to respond the way it wants. As a businessman, its idiotic to throw diplomacy out the window because you are seeking fanboy approval. The fact that he's surprised and is continuing to air out his grievances with the public is foolish. He knows anything he says will be amplified, the media loves a public battle.
What Apple did should be illegal, and probably is. At the same time, video title is clickbait and Theo ignores what Apple said - nothing to do with a Tweet, everything to do with “you fucked us, now we won’t play”. I feel its a bit dishonest to ignore the fact that Apple isn’t lying here, although what they are doing is illegal.
If there are no adults in the room we have to involve Margrethe Vestager.
Who is that
@@IceBlueLugia en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Margrethe_Vestager
EU commissioner and general badass
@@IceBlueLugia Basically she's the lady in charge of the EU commission that handles DMA.
You know it's bullshit when someone's monetization attempt is characterized repeatedly by Apple as a breach of "security, safety and privacy." They don't even have the nerve to say "we want the money for ourselves!" And while it's perfectly fine to rub that breach of contract in their faces, unless they have terms that say "breach once, banned forever," it makes them look like greedy liars when it comes to regulatory compliance, bringing up the past and nonsensical reasons, instead of just letting them cut their own branch from under their feet, if they're so sure it's likely to happen again.
They're terrible, and their strong stance against openness is what kept me away from their products. I don't care how great the hardware is, if the company is that villain who gets out of their way to stop you from doing what you want with the thing you bought. And then they claim it's all for your security, safety and privacy.
Apple might use this video to ban your dev account Theo 😂😂😂
You seem like a rational person, how you can call yourself Apple Fanboy
What do you mean? I use Apple products and still hate Apple and think they are an anti-consumer company.
@@murtadha96you know "a fanboy" isn't someone that uses products and is critical of the company at the same time.
@@murtadha96 Apple is a company, you don't have to love/like it.
Apple fanboy is different from who just likes Apple Products.
Apple fanboy never criticizes, & will curse you if you criticize anything made by Apple.
I have seen people justifying $1000 Pro Stand, *its a freaking stand*
@@Mankepankeperfect answer.....
Apple in the 2020s is acting like Microsoft in the late '90s-2000s. Native mobile apps and the ability of OS vendors to dictate all terms related to them is as if MS had succeeded in Embrace Extend Extinguishing the web and then also had eaten the PC market and locked out other operating systems from running on x86.
So... Apple fanboy is getting more and more redpilled? Being fanboy to anything, to be honest, shouldn't be a thing in professional world. You can be a fan and have preferences, but everything have limits. It's what Louis Rossmann says, but in more HW-wise fashion towards Apple and other companies. That's the dark side of walled gardens and now suddenly people start to awaken, interesting...
Yeah it's great that the EGS is good for devs but it's literally an awful platform for consumers, it's missing core features that are present on competing vendors platforms and hasn't been improved significantly in half a decade, it's kinda wild to obfuscate information like that and misrepresent why a store front isn't actually liked by most people. I'd much rather have the feature set of a platform like steam and have the devs take a bigger cut since they wouldn't ever even consider offering the features steam offers, this forces devs to make sure the storefront that manages the applications is actually funded and performs well for the consumers instead of just making them more wealthy :)
Epic asks questions which Apple is supposed to answer to comply with the DMA regulations, but instead of answering, they close the account.
Maybe because all their compliance is total BS in the first place. Apple never had the intention to allow a real app store on their devices (they might have under some unknown company they control just for the public opinion...).
It's all just show and deception. Once someone started to ask the real questions, Apple would be either liable if they broke them in the future, so they just terminated the account.
To resume, Apple is afraid that Epic having the financial resources might actually really launch a store and make Apple abide by their own terms. Terms Apple made maliciously but never had the intention to follow. This resumes the whole story. Apple behaves more and more like a criminal entity run by a gang of mobsters.
It’s so hard to find a company these days that doesn’t participate in stupid schemes that hurt their customers or just straight up break the law.
Being a developer, although I've never published anything publicly, I wouldn't trust Apple for the exact same reasons Apple don't trust Epic (In their view). Seriously, on a WHIM, without consultation, they'll yank someone product and access because years later, it's now competitive. I flip'n (I use this word because I try hard to keep my posts PG) hate Apple and their treatment to developers. I literally, only allow Apple products on my LAN because my wife has to use it for work, and/or I want to stay married to her. Otherwise, I'd be blocking anything and everything to do with Apple on my network. If I detected an Apple device, it'd get stopped before it got an IP address.
my main worry about the new iOS apps is the rule that says it can only be on one app store. In the future, everyone will need to have like 50 app stores because they are all on different stores.
Tim Sweeny to Apple: I love you guys, it's just, that, can you go back to your roots?
Apple: I'm sorry, roots? We have no idea what you mean. We were always this way.
Control is the most important thing for Apple, and they will forego making money in order to retain that control.
The cynic and realist in me is not at all surprised, this is just management going mask off. For as long
as I've been aware of their walled garden MO, I've disliked and avoided them. They've always been like this,
overly controlling, fickle... What surprises me is that this didn't happen sooner. To be less charitable
They behave like a petulant child throwing its parents money around to get what it wants
im still really confused how they can dictate terms for 3rd party app stores
surly they just just have to allow to install the store (or any app) from a file
and the 3rd party stores would have nothing to do with apple at all other than being on an Iphone
I wonder if they could go like "okay, but it's our OS, we don't want that capability there. You can build and install your own OS to install any app, though, just don't expect _our_ silicon to handle it as well as _ours_ " or something like that
Actually even right now it's technically possible to have a third party "store" not in the same sense as a marketplace because they don't allow it. But it is possible since IOS was created, there is this protocol SYNC ML, you can build and MDM (Mobile device management) server on top of that, IOS functions by design with such server that is used to install applications, remove and restrict certain applications based on configuration profiles.
The process of creating your own MDM server is really lengthy and only (currently) allowed under, a partnership agreement with Apple, only for enterprise customers and enterprise needs, think of it as company management solutions, schools, tools that phone distributors such as AT&T, Verizon use to sell lease phones, so they can have control over them in case a device is not being paid, they can simply disable it, or geo locate it.
So to answer the initial question that's how they are going to do it, in order to make the thing work you need a certificate that is only issued by apple, it's a complicated process but you generate a certificate from your company and you issue a CSR that you send to apple which eventually gets validated with the chain of certificates and you get an active MDM certificate that is active for an year. With that certificate you can enroll devices into your own MDM server, and issue commands to those devices using a thing that apple calls "Push magic token" (I know it's stupid, like anything apple names) and in theory you can build a third party store that has lots of apps and anyone can upload anything but apple can still have a whitelist of applications that can be installed and still have the option to disable a store, or a certain application on a third party store as you can very much figure out if you read trough the explanation of how the protocol works simply send a MDM command to the device to remove the app, or block it entirely.
You can still only run apps on iPhones that are approved by Apple.
@@thewhitefalcon8539 you can download stuff from third party stores albeit you need to reinstall it every so often as its certificates expire. iOS is actually more lenient than people think, even in a nonjailbroken state.
I don't feel bad for Sweeney, but I feel bad for the Apple users.
Epic Games Store is doing the timed exclusive bs, that I hate on consoles + they block Fortnite on purpose for Steam Deck / Linux, even though it runs great, it's just locked.
Apple doesn't seem to realise the EU is going to take this pretty badly and Apple should remember what happened with microsoft, facebook, google. They have absolutely no choice but comply.
I love epic and Tim Sweeney. No idea how people can criticise him.
Meanwhile, what Apple loves most is money and monopoly control.
"...History shows, however, that Epic is verifiably untrustworthy..." Wow, now *there's* the pot calling the kettle black!
Apple's "walled garden" is surrounded by razor-wire. I may have a MacBookPro that I boot up every few months, but pretty much everything I run there is open-source (CCC being the ONLY application I bought for it). I don't buy from Apple's disastrous App Store.
But as for abandoning iOS for Android, that may not be as good of an option as it may seem. Google are just as arrogant assholes as Apple (probably more). Android just has the ability to sideload without hacking the system (except I expect for certain brand phones). In general, don't ever put your dependence on Apple, Microsoft, Google, Amazon, etc.
Apple is having the most embarrassing hissy fit of all time. It's fucking hilarious
Tim Sweeney is a model of leadership. It is risky and difficult to take a position like this, because he will definitely be feeling pressure to capitulate to Apple.
So Epic wants to distribute their own app store through DMA and to sell an app-store-native fortnite version.
Well how funny, because Apple's own DMA developer agreements specify strictly - You either use our own store, or a 3rd-party store. And only one at a time.
... that's an absolutely insane requirement.
Apple never did the right thing, never will do the right thing. Wake up.
Crapple:
Less features, less rights, more price, more dogma.
somebody at apple watching this video and screaming "dissent! heresy!!"
Despite Apple’s many many many faults, this move makes lots of sense to me. Well, I can understand the justification they provide.
Epic in the past agreed to a contract, then intentionally broke it, and leveraged Apples reaction against them. And cost Apple lots of time, money, and and bad press. Now they’re still actively talking shit about Apple while saying, trust us, we won’t do it again.
I do still appreciate that a company just looking to optimize its profits is fighting with another company that’s just trying to optimize its profits, hopefully the result is maybe that the only true winners are the consumers.
Apple is a lot like Sheldon Cooper, a whiny little shit who will pout until he gets his way and no matter how childish he gets with his friends/family they always give him a pass except I'm talking about a fictional character in a comedy that uses satire to get a laugh out of the audience, Apple is REAL. 👀
Hopefully the eu will rewrite a more concrete set of laws that will force apple to comply with true and absolute sideloading and fine them 10s to 100s of billions if they don’t comply, forcing them to comply or F off. I want freedom to do what I like on products I have purchased.
The entire idea of "we can't trust you to not break the rules" should be illegal. Until they ACTUALLY break rule -- you shouldn't be able to just kick them.
Sure, it's "their platform" and they "can do whatever they want," but there comes a point where a platform becomes so big, that there needs to be some regulation -- as not having IOS access, is such a huge disadvantage, they are essentially a monopoly.
Well, no. It's not their platform. Once you've bought the device it's yours to with as you please. It's the same as a piece of furniture in that regard and Apple should be punished heavily for this. I'd suggest everyone boycott them, but people are zombies so that won't happen.
Apple just being Apple, when it's still fresh is good, when it's spoiled it's bad.
Petty is the word. They are being petty
Apple is clearly in the wrong here, but I have not forgotten Sweeney being very happy to establish product monopolies that benefit him.
Realistically... The hit to Apple's revenues / profits / stock price from having the App Store challenged would likely be monstrous. And the risk of similar things happening for the Vision Pro could potentially ruin their long term outlook (and stock price again).
Without seeing Apple's projections, it's difficult to know how serious this is for them, and thus how important to make sure that this idea fails.
Just because they have money in the bank today doesn't automatically mean that they will tomorrow if their business model is broken.
Apple has gone to a very bad place.
Are they trying make good for the evaded taxes by paying fines?
Why are you an "Apple fanboy"?
Because as the tweet highlighted: they still have some great devs and make some great products.
Time to ditch Apple.
I'm happy to start phasing out my Apple devices slowly. First will be replacing my iPhone 14 Pro Max with the Google Pixel 9 Pro when that's released.
At that point, I can already opt out of pretty much all Apple services (as well as on my MacBook).
When the M1 Max shows its age, I'm sure by then, AMD's APUs will be pretty comparable to what Apple will offer in their laptop line.
Theo as an Apple fanboy & as a developer in existential crisis 😂
Also, theo: I wonder when the multi tab feature will be available in apple vision pro
Apple is not the same company I grew up knowing... I used to love their products and their ecosystem. now I can't respect them no matter how good their products may be. I despise everything they stand for. It used to be the complete opposite.
You think Steve Jobs would approve of what Apple has become
Ah Apple. It could be so different so easily. I want to be able to create and load my own apps directly without the app store. It makes me wish Microsoft kept going with the windows phone.
Considering the fairly massive cuts and redundancies that Epic made in the last year, I do wonder whether Apple is just relying on the fact that Epic can't afford to fight this battle forever.
Honestly it’s all about Tim Cook and now Phil. They’re not about innovation but solely about profits, it’s how it’s been ever since Tim took over
I hope Linux Mobile devices get as good as the desktop has, seriously Google or Apple, will just keep getting more trash the closer they get to losing power and being forced to actually compete.
This hurts Epic and will have fallout for Apple. As a person who loathes both companies with a passion, it feels like Christmas came early.
I'm going to have to side with Apple on this one, if you did the same thing with the Unreal engine and tried to get out of paying as a developer and it got Sweeney's attention the dude would literally act the same way. They are both hot garbage.
Theo, I have been a iOS and macOS developer since 2014 and I have watched myself from admiring Apple to absolutely hating their guts these past few years. You can be more critical of Apple in your videos. You have a voice and if you did along with prominent influencers I believe and hope Apple would mend its ways
Cool, but I'll never forgive them for using bandcamp, lieing that they where using them, and then throwing it away when they where done using them.
Fuck epic too.
Sorry, but the EU's legislation is cucked
What they should've done is force Apple to allow to install apps with an installer just like you can do on Android
I wouldn't trust anything that Sweeney says - he highlights a tweet from Feb 26th, while Apple sent them a letter on the 23rd.
“In the past, Epic has entered into agreements with Apple and then broken them,” Schiller reminds the game maker in the letter dated February 23, 2024. “You also testified that Epic deliberately violated Apple’s rules, to make a point and for financial gain. More recently, you have described our DMA compliance as ‘hot garbage,’ a ‘horror show,’ and a ‘devious new instance of Malicious Compliance.’ And you have complained about what you called ‘Junk Fees’ and ‘Apple taxes.”
Schiller suggests that Epic’s “colorful criticism” combined with its past actions “strongly suggests that Epic Sweden does not intend to follow the rules.” He adds that another intentional breach could “threaten the integrity of the iOS platform, as well as the security and privacy of users.”
“…in plain, unqualified terms, please tell us why we should trust Epic at this time,” he concludes.
----
It is a mess regardless, apple is going downhill quickly behaving like this.
From a security standpoint what apple says is "we know our users are dumb so we want to restrict all ability to install things using tools we don't own, just look how people install things on android and windows and get hacked"
from a money standpoint apple is actually just abusing this security argument to make more money from both you and the developer of whatever you use
Ngl, I expect Apple leadership to change pretty drastically if they continue down this path. There's only so much board members will deal with before the company goes bankrupt
Would it be against Apple's terms to itemize a digital purchase in an app to show Apple's cut? i.e. Purchase $10.00, Apple surcharge $4.29, Total $14.29. Maybe some people would see that and get the idea that they might be able to go to your website and make the same purchace for $10 flat.
btw Apple also rejected to work with NVIDIA. Smells same way I guess. They start support only AMD GPUs and then released their own solution on M-chips. I started my Apple journey with hackintosh on Intel+NVIDIA and it worked great, much better in term of performance than latest maxed intel macbook. But because of their decision first I switched my GPU to AMD, and later purchased macbook laptop. Good for them - because they got my money, bad for me - because I lost a lot of productivity cuz macbook not even close to compute performance of modern gaming PC.
In other words: app stores are trickle up economics
Can’t wait for EU reaction 🍿🥤
Thats why I've moved off to Android.
The problem is that ultimately its EU customers who pay for the fines caused by Apple's illegal acts - compare the converted prices from the US and say, French stores - they are consistently 150+ dollars more on the latter.
EU customers that enjoy supporting Apple's behaviour, pay through the nose they should to enjoy such an innovative "privilege"
that is because sales tax has to be included on all listed prices
You can always stick it to Apple and not buy an iphone
I'm fine with that. They chose to buy from Apple. If they don't like paying for Apple's illegal acts they should just buy a Samsung.
I think Apple has always wanted to be an overlord beloved by consumers... Partner to developers (or anyone else - including consumers), has never truly been there thing.
If they were people focused, they wouldn't have gone the route of very high prices and margins that reduce access to many would be consumers. They're fundamentally self-centered and always have been.
They want to be the group that defines other people's direction... Sometimes that turns out well, and sometimes not.
Personally though, I still find the EU judgments to be cringe... If the consumers aren't changing their minds about wanting Apple products, then it's not the place of governments of mostly decaying countries to try and decide what others should be doing.
Epic will spend as much money as possible on things that are not supporting either DS5 (PS5) controllers or Linux distributions.
Any game that I've got for free on Epic that I've liked enough to buy, I bought on Steam. The one game I bought on Epic because it was an exclusive launch, I also ended up buying on Steam.
70% of something is better than 88% or 91% of nothing.
This has got to be the most pathetic thing I've ever seen in my long and storied life.
Shocker shitty company that gets rewarded constantly sees no reason to do something right...who would have thought lol.