@@JesusRamirez-tv8yl By comics abd DCAU, yes but Arkhamverse, nope. She do evil stuff even when Joker was long dead. She murder babies for lulz, she laugh. Villain all the way!
@@JesusRamirez-tv8yl *someone who doesn't know her lore* She killed women and children with no remorse that's not something that can just change off screen from the last game they are doing it because they are trying to be woke
Shes overused, and they can't decide where her loyalties lie. Shes not a character that was intended to ascend beyond being the Joker's sidekick. Theres nothing wrong making her a character independant of the Joker but just making her so unfocused as a character because shes "crazy" is very sloppy.
screw Arkham Harley let's just talk about injustice Harley where she got no consequences for her action, Girl killed a Pregent woman with an unborn child, Helped her " Mista J" set up a bomb and destroy the city, Fear gassed superman, AND GOT NO CONSEQUENCESS FOR HER ACTION FOR AN UNFOGIVEABLE SIN AND THE PAIN SHE CAUSED TO SUPERMAN.I don't understand why superman didn't kill her and why the heroes are respecting her. And in the point in the movie, she didn't even feel sorry and the reason why she wanted to take down superman is to avenge her clown daddy bf. dc is trying to redeem her seriously. She shouldn't even being saying to batman "All the emotion abuse u caused to people "SHE LITERALLY RUINED SUPERMANS LIFE AND MADE HIM EVIL .
Agreed. Harley wasn’t the most in-depth character, but her writing had consistency throughout the Arkham games which made sense. Harley, as well as Batman for that matter, really feel like different characters in this game to me.
@@metallord6960 Injustice the game or comic? Because in the first game she plays no major role and kills lots of people off-screen, even Lois Lane bearing a Superman's child. Somehow, in the second game, she is sort of like the main protagonist after Batman, serving as his annoying official sidekick.
she's a feminist icon when she is the worst example of feminism she started out the sidekick for a man her origin is tied to a man but sense she DC's most popular female character sense wonder woman( though she might be more popular than wonder woman) it feels like they try every superficial feminist trick justify her
I think it's more they just saw how an R rated anti-hero movie like Deadpool could blow up and have been trying to shift her more in that direction since to copy it. A Harley who seperates from the Joker can work, I just don't think you can easily turn her into a reformed character. Hell, even the BTAS version of her which is where she originated from had a few episodes where she ditched the Joker to hang out with Ivy and they still made them commit crime. You could even see that Ivy was also not much of an improvement in terms of being toxic and manipulating Harley for her own benefit (since she only really cared about plants) but she at least didn't beat Harley like Joker did. Harley having co-dependency issues even when not with the Joker specifically makes her more interesting IMO.
I dont like how they turn't her over the years from a Jester to some crazy rock chic. The Jester supposed to be her alter ego that is the counterpart to The Joker who imitates a Clown.
it's the damn suicide squad's fault, ever since harley's suicide squad version got famous, everyone else who didn't know her character hopped in on her 'rebellious street punk style' or something just because it looked cool. she didn't even have any jester elements to her new character designs anymore, her original personality died with it hence the birth of the 'modern harley'
I can forgive THe Joker because is has been such an important part of like half of Batman's most important events and story arcs: he schemes, he triggers, he betrays...but her, sorry: but she only parades herself now talking about how " empowering" she is by not being with him. Like: ok..."good for ya, but, this again?"
Remember in the Batgirl DLC of Arkham Knight when Harley injected a child with Titan and then told her father that the best thing to do was kill himself? What a quirky, lovable heroine.
Gave me even _more_ reasons to hate Suicide Squad 2016 since DC comics and Warner Bros. are desperately pushing to make nearly every versions of Harley resemble Margot Robbie while also turning her into a _cliched_ anti-hero, regardless if it fits the context of the character.
I remember the Task Force X episode from JLU, and how it showed that even C-list Heroes (Vigilante, Shining Knight, and Atom Smasher) could pose a SERIOUS threat. They even choose the day that Batman AND Superman are away from The Watchtower, yet still ran into Martian Manhunter, who was downright HORRIFYING to them, and they only escaped because Deadshot left Plastique to DIE, knowing the heroes would drop everything to save a life. THAT'S how I like to see the Suicide Squad portrayed.
My boy Arkham Batman had to listen to a cringe girl boss speech before getting the worst death in gaming history. Harley Quinn is just insufferable now DC really butchered her character we need Paul Dini to make her great again.
Harley Quinn isn't an anti-hero. An anti-hero is A HERO with bad qualities. If anything, she may be an anti-villain, as a villain with redeeming qualities. In any case, that isn't Arkham Harley. Arkham Harley is evil to the bone.
I will ALWAYS love the classic jester Harley this THING ain't it chief she was a bubbly but still pshycotic killer jester then became THIS angsty garbage
Honestly i really like Harley Quinn as a character, i am not tired of her just like I am not tired of batman himself, however, the arkham Harley is really flat. In every single Arkham game, except for origins, she has no depth at all. The most they do is just slap a floating harleen voice in her head. It seems like harley is turning into a joke character instead of an actual person, and that's not even only Arkham Harley. I honestly would love a full game where she is the main villain, in a story that actually builds and adds depth to her character as a villain. Instead we get female dc deadpool.
I can understand having Harley in SOME iterations of the Suicide Squad. Her being in "Assault on Arkham"at least made sense, as she was the person who knew the inside of Arkham Asylum the best and was their best way of getting in. But I'm tired of her being forced into versions that shouldn't have her just because of her popularity. However, overall she's not a good choice. There are SOOO many other characters that would be awesome versions that could be included in a Suicide Squad game to change it up and not make it just another shooter. Copperhead. Parasite. Bane. Bronze Tiger. Killer Croc. Ratcatcher. Cheetah. Hell, imagine being Deathstroke and not just for combat or predator minigames. Harley is not that engaging of a character and I don't find her funny. Her show just annoys me and I am getting tired of her being shoehorned in things just because she's a fan favourite.
What irks me is that they're trying to shill Harley as a good guy, but in order to do that, they basically glossed over the many, _many_ atrocities she was complicit in when she worked for the Joker. I mean, how many ruined/ended lives did she have a hand in? How do they expect people to just ignore that? And then there's the fact that she's "moved on from the Joker" despite, y'know, _continuing to use the name and motif she adopted specifically so she could work with the Joker._ I swear, it's like DC or Warner Bros. noticed how popular she got, misunderstood _WHY_ she was popular, and went "Well, we can't have such a beloved character be a _bad guy!"_
Harley Quinn hasn't been that good since the animated series ever since they removed and try to make her a hero doesn't really not only that but also her costume looks like something at a which it doesn't look good on its own
The 2004 Harley was good. A bit different compared to BTAS in that her and Joker seemingly did actually have a fondness for one another but she still kept those co-depencency flaws, her intelligence and her being manipulated.
I love Harley Quinn in the Animated Series and The Arkham Trilogy. The Harley Quinn in Suicide Squad Kills The Justice League isn't the Harley Quinn that I love but a bastardization of her. This was a fantastic video mate and you have just got a new subscriber.
@@Bob-ti3uq That correct mate, Batman The Animated Series. I haven't seen the Harley Quinn show but I've heard some things about it and it doesn't sound like my cup of tea.
Amen. In fact, why are they trying to make Harley the DC Deadpool when they already have Lobo and Plastic Man (who may not be an R-Rated antihero but at least he’s comedic).
She doesn't have any of Deadpool's qualities that make him great, Harley is just the most insufferable character nowadays to the point I want to see Punchline or Gaggy in anything more than her
Deadpool works because he is a tragic tale of a merc that wants to see his good within him and in order to do that he jokes and pokes fun at himself and others. Modern Harley is just annoying.
dont forget this version of harley quinn kidnapped 25 infants and helped stitch them all together in one piece, assisted in jason todd breaking and set poison ivy loose with titian infused plants, for someone who claims to want to be free of joker she refuses to repent for her crimes insead becoming a knockoff of the clown prince, it would be funny if it weren't so pathetic
@@simoneidson21 in my opinion her victimhood ended after arkham knight and is certainly not an excuse for a hypocritical rant against someone who tried time and time again to help you
I think it’s time to retire the character for a while, she’s gotten stale and uninteresting. And the bad depictions start to make me question the worth of this character had to begin with, she’s no longer feeling special anymore.
I hate how Harley Quinn's jokes are immature and underdeveloped. They say she's coping her pain with humor, but shouldn't the humor be funny? She drops a corny line and we're expected to clap and praise.
The whole tragedy and brilliance of Harley Quinn as a character was that in the fact that she **cannot** get over the Joker. Her getting over the Joker is like Batman getting over the death of his parents. These psychological loops they are stuck in and cannot develop past are the reason they are such fascinating characters. Remove that and you remove the reason people liked them. But hey, you can just make her a slutty Deadpool and people would eat it up, that works too.
Del walker confirmed that smile baby inc was the one who had free control of the dialogue in this game. It makes sense, since the bad writing through out the game is consistent
Was harley quinn ever even smart? xD, I remember her original version being sort of dumb...she didn't pass her exams to her her degree. She just cheated. Though I'm sure she has been rebooted to a total "girlboss" by now, more than any other. :S
I feel the downfall of her character started around the new 52, but it went into full high gear after the first suicide squad movie. Like DC and Rocksteady forget that even though she was a victim of the Joker's manipulation and abuse, all that sympathy goes out of the window when you consider that she was still a willing participant in many horrific crimes, including torturing Jason Todd, showing little to no remorse to her actions. I think DC should put Harley on a 2-year break, perhaps even more, so they can get their shit together and put her back to her BTAS glory days, you know, back when she was a tragic figure.
The thing is they made her very overpowered and gave her big roles and attention more than she really deserves in movies, video games etc, back then she was only sidekick but you have developers who literally are simping for her.
Harley was ruined in New 52, when they retconned her origin into the super generic "vat of chemicals" bullshjt. It's such a cliché, Kevin Smith mocked the trope in his Bluntman and Chronic comic back in the early 2000s. In hindsight, it feels like he was trying to warn us.
I noticed. I usually like Harley (heck, the second Suicide Squad movie was great, and her cartoon is loads of fun), but this just seemed to be her at her least appealing. Kind of like what Jared Leto was to the Joker.
Also the hairstyle they chose to give her was like.. what?! Also a big harley fan since the OG quinn. Arkham Asylum came out and loved her even more. As time went on i noticed they've been butchering her backstory ;-;
*/!\ LONG COMMENT* When I was 12 years old I used to play to the Arkham Games, especially Arkham City with the "Harley Quinn's revenge" DLC. And I was frustated with the very little I had of her and how easily defeatable she was in her "fight" sequences. I wanted to see more of her! I wondered why was she so childishly annoying? Wasn't she a psychiatrist before? Shouldn't she be smarter? Actually she could be one of Batman's worst ennemies. You see: she has psychiatry knowledge, so she could be able to guess that Batman is Bruce Wayne. Batman's obsession with fighting criminals is hinting he has history with. He's not killing the criminals so he's probably never comitted any crime (justifying why he's fighting it). And his equipement must cost a fortune so he must be rich. And who's rich as fuck and is vocal about having his parents murdered and is fighting crime in his politican way? Bruce Wayne! It would showcase her smartness and make her more threatening for another reason! She should also fight better in a more sadistic way: she used to be the Joker's "girlfriend! Who knows what she's been through but it must've been extremely painful. And also, if you want to show independant she became, show it's price. Show how traumatized she is, both physically and mentally and show how ruthless she actually is! Show her darkness! That's the Harley Quinn I'm still waiting to see! The feminist message would still be here: women who used to be in an abusive relationship had to pay the price for their independance, even when said partner died. Stop with that forced quirkiness please, just make her a good character.
I genuinely thought she would end up lowering the gun, near tears as she says “…I can’t. I can’t do it.” As she remembers all the good Bruce has done for as many people as he could, including her… and even Joker.
i agree with everything on this video. im seriously starting to hate harley quinn. i still love her characters especially from BTAS and the DCAU but that's the only time i still like harley. i didn't care for her in the arkham games (she was a good character and the games in general were amazing) and ever since the first suicide squad movie I have hated her. i never found her attractive with her newer outfits and hair style and started to find her annoying as hell and just intolerable. i'm glad she finally split from Joker but since then her character has been dogshit in every way and she has been overused to hell and back. they definitley need to retire her character for a few years or at the very least give us more of her in the DCAU where she is still her old self we all grew up with
You know what makes less sense? In the Arkham Knight Harley DLC, when you use her “detective mode” equivalent, we can see how insane she really is. She literally has a inner “Harleen Quinzel” begging Quinn to return back to her normal self. It’s literally another personality in her head at this point, it’s that bad. Yet, in the new game, she’s just somehow rehabilitated enough to be normal-ish with zero downsides. Wouldn’t she be remorseful about all the damage she caused? Wouldn’t she try to make amends somehow? Nope, she just smiles and cracks jokes and moves on like “Who cares if I caused the deaths of children, women, and men? I changed now so it’s fine!” That is what makes that Batman dialogue so annoying. Batman has done nothing BUT held out hope that his villians would change for the better one day. He has NEVER given up hope they could change, even Joker. That’s why he refused to let any of them die if he could help it. Hell, compared to most villians, Batman treated Harley quite nicely and barely put his hands on her throughout the series and when he did, it was child’s play compared to what most male characters get. Yet, here Harley was on her holier-than-thou throne somehow taking the high ground against Batman of all people. Who has Batman ruined mentally? Truly? His Robins? They were orphans without a purpose before him, and they seem like normal people to me. Jason Todd is an exception but that’s due to Joker’s torture, not Batman. Batgirl was just a coincidence, Joker shot her because she was Gordon’s daughter, he never knew she was Batgirl. Batman also influenced Catwoman to do more good and selfless acts, and I don’t think she kills anyone in the series either.
Off topic, but I am REALLY getting sick of people and companies forcing s Harley Quinn and Poison Ivy romance. They are friends! They should stay that way!
I mind how their relationship started as very toxic (which makes sense for both characters), but then out of nowhere DC made them the perfect couple just for brownie points and fans eat that shit up without question
I remember back in 16 on the walking dead when people wanted Negan’s head for killing Abraham and Glenn (especially Glenn). **looks at video** …..Man, those were simpler times…..
I'm excited for Joker 2 and to see what Lady Gaga does with the character cuz this'll be the first live action Harley we see that is truly in her villain era
Genuinely loved her in the arkham series. I personally really like her as a villain. A sympathetic one but a villain nonetheless. I loved how sadistic and dark she was in the arkham games. Also just loved her outfits too. This game apparently being a continuation of that version of harley makes no sense to me. To me they seem like they have to come from different universes with her getting over the joker so quickly and off screen. Especially since if it's the same version of harley seemingly it would be even harder for her to get over him since this wasn't her getting over a bad breakup. He literally died and the last time we saw her she was in deep grief. Trying to find a way to bring him back somehow.
How humiliating that an animated series from the 90s and on top of that its first appearance has more depth than in a "darker version" in four games Now I know where the person who used to be a good character comes from.
Sometimes i wonder why shes always apart of suicide squad missions, i mean shes an okay character but she doesn't have a lot going for her like the other characters besides being jokers punching bag, and the psychologist stuff-
I dont know much about dc big comic lore but isnt harley known to be jokers girl and side kick i thought she fell into the same thing joker fell into wich made him so crazy
The harley quinn slander is making me love her even more and honestly I'm glad that she's an anti-hero so that she's shown that she's no longer jokers abused sidekick but a funny redeemable anti-hero
Harley was meant to be a Joker's sidekick. Nothing more. She was evil, did horrible things to please the Joker and for her own gain too and I will say it, SHE IS NOT A VICTIM!
I've been having a blast with SSKTJL and the game has received an unfair amount of negative feedback in my opinion. However, you made some valid arguments in this video. Harley's hypocritical moments annoyed me quite a few times actually because she acted like Amanda Waller went too far by holding Hack hostage for "being a kid" or that Boomerang was wrong for putting a bomb in Ivy and Toyman's necks because "they were kids". She's done way, way worse for a very long time. Like torturing Jason Todd who at the time was a teen or putting bombs in gaming consoles and blowing children up while she watched from a distance in the comic tie-in to the Arkham games. She might have even helped Joker kidnap the kids that he chopped up and sewed back together. Harley is an absolute menace and she should remain that way. That's part of her character's charm. I don't mind a redemption arc for her but I don't want writers to act like she never did any of those other things. The only way her speech to Batman is justified in my eyes is that Harley being self-righteous and hypocritical is also part of her character. Not like her speech was a "girl-boss" moment but more of a "flawed way of thinking" moment. Also, "fun-sized" is a funny way to describe small people. People who were already mad at the game just took that and ran with it.
Nice! I agree with the main points you’ve said, her being hypocritical was very weird for a rocksteady game to be. although her speech was definitely targeted to be more self righteous and felt very self serving from the writers for sure. I doubt they went into the game wanting it to be a flawed way of thinking and more so targeted to make her seem better than Batman, it felt very ham fisted. Thats my thoughts at least…
Harley speech was hyprical as she murder and tortured kids, causing true trauma, and this is why I hate woke writers they try to make even awful women into good people
Honestly, I found her voice more annoying than anything else. XD It’s so horribly grating to the point that I’d hate her just for that, even if her writing was good. It’s probably the only role I’ve ever heard Tara Strong play where she absolutely sucks, and I don’t know why they ever thought she was good for it.
well in that one harely works her writing is good thats the diffrence compared to for example the first sucide squad movie or her own movie atleast she was better handle in james gunn's sucide squad movie. its so much up and down with her character lately
@@adrianstjrnfldt agreed, as a BatmanTAS fan from when I was a kid. Everyone who grew up with the og knows it can never be toped. RIP her voice actor and imop the best Batman as well. They are both gone. Wow. So fuckin sad tbh.
I'm so sorry on my 3rd channel know as Brevin Stringer he love being a bad or good anyway possible so yeah you got to deal with it and that what i had said about it until next time see ya later over and out.
"Anti-Hero", nope. She is a villain. Anti Hero is Deadpool.
At the end of the day she was just manipulated by the joker, her anti-hero turn makes a lot of sense
@@JesusRamirez-tv8yl By comics abd DCAU, yes but Arkhamverse, nope. She do evil stuff even when Joker was long dead. She murder babies for lulz, she laugh. Villain all the way!
@@JesusRamirez-tv8yl Do you want a very write Anti-Heroine of DC, search for Raveger.
@@JesusRamirez-tv8yl *someone who doesn't know her lore*
She killed women and children with no remorse that's not something that can just change off screen from the last game they are doing it because they are trying to be woke
They desperately want her to be the female deadpool lol.
Shes overused, and they can't decide where her loyalties lie. Shes not a character that was intended to ascend beyond being the Joker's sidekick. Theres nothing wrong making her a character independant of the Joker but just making her so unfocused as a character because shes "crazy" is very sloppy.
i miss the old harley... this isnt my harley quinn
Same
Im tired of seeing suicide squad harley, i want the original BTAS harley back
Same, I’d like to see an actual character again
Best thing of Arkham Knight was seeing her in her classic uniform in the DLC/being able to use it in the DLC mission.
@@phousefilms yes
I guess it is more soecially acceptable to look like a parody of a school girl in porn, than to look like a jester.
screw Arkham Harley let's just talk about injustice Harley where she got no consequences for her action, Girl killed a Pregent woman with an unborn child, Helped her " Mista J" set up a bomb and destroy the city, Fear gassed superman, AND GOT NO CONSEQUENCESS FOR HER ACTION FOR AN UNFOGIVEABLE SIN AND THE PAIN SHE CAUSED TO SUPERMAN.I don't understand why superman didn't kill her and why the heroes are respecting her. And in the point in the movie, she didn't even feel sorry and the reason why she wanted to take down superman is to avenge her clown daddy bf. dc is trying to redeem her seriously. She shouldn't even being saying to batman "All the emotion abuse u caused to people "SHE LITERALLY RUINED SUPERMANS LIFE AND MADE HIM EVIL .
Fr: 1/4 of the story mode is just her! Talking about how empowering it is to get special treatment.
What’s even worse Batman isn’t even responsible for here trauma the Joker is but she swears by him
The problem is oversaturation Harley's appeal is dying due to overuse and over exposure.
I missed it when she was a sidekick or henchman to the Joker.
Yup
Agreed. Harley wasn’t the most in-depth character, but her writing had consistency throughout the Arkham games which made sense. Harley, as well as Batman for that matter, really feel like different characters in this game to me.
Exactly, they don’t feel like they’re apart of the same universe at all
Maybe because it’s an alternate timeline
@@DyliciousTakes Exactly. This Harley should still be obsessed with the Joker.
Let's be honest she was ruined ever since the first suicide squad movie.
Suicide Squad had no real impact on Harley. It was quickly forgotten about
@@simoneidson21 it caused the costume change. I would say it had the most impact.
@@fundyproductions5927 I'd blame it on Injustice turning her to her path to anti hero.
@@metallord6960 Injustice the game or comic? Because in the first game she plays no major role and kills lots of people off-screen, even Lois Lane bearing a Superman's child.
Somehow, in the second game, she is sort of like the main protagonist after Batman, serving as his annoying official sidekick.
she's a feminist icon when she is the worst example of feminism
she started out the sidekick for a man her origin is tied to a man
but sense she DC's most popular female character sense wonder woman( though she might be more popular than wonder woman)
it feels like they try every superficial feminist trick justify her
I think it's more they just saw how an R rated anti-hero movie like Deadpool could blow up and have been trying to shift her more in that direction since to copy it.
A Harley who seperates from the Joker can work, I just don't think you can easily turn her into a reformed character. Hell, even the BTAS version of her which is where she originated from had a few episodes where she ditched the Joker to hang out with Ivy and they still made them commit crime. You could even see that Ivy was also not much of an improvement in terms of being toxic and manipulating Harley for her own benefit (since she only really cared about plants) but she at least didn't beat Harley like Joker did. Harley having co-dependency issues even when not with the Joker specifically makes her more interesting IMO.
She's a clown, she's the most fitting feminist icon lol
Oh yeah, let’s criticize Batman for causing mental and emotional damage when the woman who killed children is allowed to pass
I’ve always hated that argument against Batman “he traumatizes and hurts people” I’m sorry, I seem to recall his *Villains* doing that too!
Harley hasn't been the same since 2016...
very true
Since New 52 I'd argue
Rocksteady assassinated her character unfortunately
yup
Tbh I blame Warner as I think modern Harley’s character starting from squad just kinda sucks
It’s just Warner bros she is too much media for no reason
@@Bruce_Wayne841Eh tbh Harley was always a weak character in the Arkham games, she lacked all the complexity of normal Harley
She’s been like this in the comics for a long time
I dont like how they turn't her over the years from a Jester to some crazy rock chic. The Jester supposed to be her alter ego that is the counterpart to The Joker who imitates a Clown.
it's the damn suicide squad's fault, ever since harley's suicide squad version got famous, everyone else who didn't know her character hopped in on her 'rebellious street punk style' or something just because it looked cool. she didn't even have any jester elements to her new character designs anymore, her original personality died with it hence the birth of the 'modern harley'
Harley needs to retire as a character for 10-15 years
Fr honestly, her and joker need to be pushed aside for a bit
Forever*
That I don’t agree with.
@@ggt47no
I can forgive THe Joker because is has been such an important part of like half of Batman's most important events and story arcs: he schemes, he triggers, he betrays...but her, sorry: but she only parades herself now talking about how " empowering" she is by not being with him.
Like: ok..."good for ya, but, this again?"
Remember in the Batgirl DLC of Arkham Knight when Harley injected a child with Titan and then told her father that the best thing to do was kill himself? What a quirky, lovable heroine.
Gave me even _more_ reasons to hate Suicide Squad 2016 since DC comics and Warner Bros. are desperately pushing to make nearly every versions of Harley resemble Margot Robbie while also turning her into a _cliched_ anti-hero, regardless if it fits the context of the character.
Old Harley: cute, persuasive, sucks at fighting
New Harley: Ugly, not charismatic, and is a normal girlboss
I remember the Task Force X episode from JLU, and how it showed that even C-list Heroes (Vigilante, Shining Knight, and Atom Smasher) could pose a SERIOUS threat.
They even choose the day that Batman AND Superman are away from The Watchtower, yet still ran into Martian Manhunter, who was downright HORRIFYING to them, and they only escaped because Deadshot left Plastique to DIE, knowing the heroes would drop everything to save a life.
THAT'S how I like to see the Suicide Squad portrayed.
She's been overrated since Margot Robbie played her in suicide squad.
The real problem is that dc is trying to put her into everything
My boy Arkham Batman had to listen to a cringe girl boss speech before getting the worst death in gaming history. Harley Quinn is just insufferable now DC really butchered her character we need Paul Dini to make her great again.
Paul Dini the 🐐
Starting to? She was more interesting when she was under the Joker's thumb even when doing her own things.
Her character got completely butchered after Birds of Prey for me.
Ever since they turned her into a Weapons expert,Kung Fu master,MMA fighter ,Tactical Genius ,total opposite from BTAS
She’s always knew how to fight. She trained with the Amazonians and more
@@Iluvkeving go back n watch her in Batman Animated Series
@@JamaicanScouser go read her comics. She trained with the Amazonia’s
@@Iluvkeving Go watch Batman The animated series ,because she never trained with any Amazon's
@@JamaicanScouser I’m going based of the comics. Not a show. In the comics she’s trained by the Amazonian’s.
Harley Quinn isn't an anti-hero. An anti-hero is A HERO with bad qualities. If anything, she may be an anti-villain, as a villain with redeeming qualities. In any case, that isn't Arkham Harley. Arkham Harley is evil to the bone.
I will ALWAYS love the classic jester Harley this THING ain't it chief she was a bubbly but still pshycotic killer jester then became THIS angsty garbage
Honestly i really like Harley Quinn as a character, i am not tired of her just like I am not tired of batman himself, however, the arkham Harley is really flat. In every single Arkham game, except for origins, she has no depth at all. The most they do is just slap a floating harleen voice in her head. It seems like harley is turning into a joke character instead of an actual person, and that's not even only Arkham Harley. I honestly would love a full game where she is the main villain, in a story that actually builds and adds depth to her character as a villain. Instead we get female dc deadpool.
I can understand having Harley in SOME iterations of the Suicide Squad. Her being in "Assault on Arkham"at least made sense, as she was the person who knew the inside of Arkham Asylum the best and was their best way of getting in. But I'm tired of her being forced into versions that shouldn't have her just because of her popularity. However, overall she's not a good choice. There are SOOO many other characters that would be awesome versions that could be included in a Suicide Squad game to change it up and not make it just another shooter. Copperhead. Parasite. Bane. Bronze Tiger. Killer Croc. Ratcatcher. Cheetah. Hell, imagine being Deathstroke and not just for combat or predator minigames.
Harley is not that engaging of a character and I don't find her funny. Her show just annoys me and I am getting tired of her being shoehorned in things just because she's a fan favourite.
The first animated series and the 2004 reboot series have the best Harley Quinns imo.
Agreed
What irks me is that they're trying to shill Harley as a good guy, but in order to do that, they basically glossed over the many, _many_ atrocities she was complicit in when she worked for the Joker. I mean, how many ruined/ended lives did she have a hand in? How do they expect people to just ignore that?
And then there's the fact that she's "moved on from the Joker" despite, y'know, _continuing to use the name and motif she adopted specifically so she could work with the Joker._
I swear, it's like DC or Warner Bros. noticed how popular she got, misunderstood _WHY_ she was popular, and went "Well, we can't have such a beloved character be a _bad guy!"_
Harley Quinn hasn't been that good since the animated series ever since they removed and try to make her a hero doesn't really not only that but also her costume looks like something at a which it doesn't look good on its own
The 2004 Harley was good. A bit different compared to BTAS in that her and Joker seemingly did actually have a fondness for one another but she still kept those co-depencency flaws, her intelligence and her being manipulated.
Honestly, Harley Quinn has become the worst thing ever since Suicide Squad
Her design went downhill and DC keeps insisting her to move on from Mr. J.
I love Harley Quinn in the Animated Series and The Arkham Trilogy. The Harley Quinn in Suicide Squad Kills The Justice League isn't the Harley Quinn that I love but a bastardization of her. This was a fantastic video mate and you have just got a new subscriber.
I assume you mean batman the animated series and not the terrible harley quinn animated show.
@@Bob-ti3uq That correct mate, Batman The Animated Series. I haven't seen the Harley Quinn show but I've heard some things about it and it doesn't sound like my cup of tea.
thanks for subbing! glad you're here!! and I agree
Shes been on a downward trajectory ever since the new 52
calling harley deadpool is an insult to deadpool
Amen.
In fact, why are they trying to make Harley the DC Deadpool when they already have Lobo and Plastic Man (who may not be an R-Rated antihero but at least he’s comedic).
She doesn't have any of Deadpool's qualities that make him great, Harley is just the most insufferable character nowadays to the point I want to see Punchline or Gaggy in anything more than her
Deadpool works because he is a tragic tale of a merc that wants to see his good within him and in order to do that he jokes and pokes fun at himself and others.
Modern Harley is just annoying.
Bro…..she’s been insufferable since they started the new 52
This is A completely New52 harley quinn
They really mailed it in on this one…..
Harley Quinn is sooooo annoying now that I desperately want Wonder Woman back 😒
dont forget this version of harley quinn kidnapped 25 infants and helped stitch them all together in one piece, assisted in jason todd breaking and set poison ivy loose with titian infused plants, for someone who claims to want to be free of joker she refuses to repent for her crimes insead becoming a knockoff of the clown prince, it would be funny if it weren't so pathetic
....... Oh what the heck I'll laugh anyway
I mean, you do realize she was manipulated by a narcissistic sociopath? I’m not saying her manipulation excuses her crimes but she is a victim too
@@simoneidson21 in my opinion her victimhood ended after arkham knight and is certainly not an excuse for a hypocritical rant against someone who tried time and time again to help you
yeah, she's insane lmao
we understnad why she is the way she is, but being a victim doesn't excuse abhorrent behavior she's known to doing@@simoneidson21
I think it’s time to retire the character for a while, she’s gotten stale and uninteresting. And the bad depictions start to make me question the worth of this character had to begin with, she’s no longer feeling special anymore.
They favouring HarleyQuinn over WonderWoman......
Agreed... I wish they would give her and Joker a break for a while.
It's pretty ironic to see Harley hate her Arkham self given those games are part of the reason she's so popular right now.
They actually thought that because people love harley quinn, they won't get upset about her killing batman.
Now that's a joke
I hate how Harley Quinn's jokes are immature and underdeveloped. They say she's coping her pain with humor, but shouldn't the humor be funny? She drops a corny line and we're expected to clap and praise.
The whole tragedy and brilliance of Harley Quinn as a character was that in the fact that she **cannot** get over the Joker. Her getting over the Joker is like Batman getting over the death of his parents. These psychological loops they are stuck in and cannot develop past are the reason they are such fascinating characters. Remove that and you remove the reason people liked them.
But hey, you can just make her a slutty Deadpool and people would eat it up, that works too.
Del walker confirmed that smile baby inc was the one who had free control of the dialogue in this game. It makes sense, since the bad writing through out the game is consistent
Was harley quinn ever even smart? xD, I remember her original version being sort of dumb...she didn't pass her exams to her her degree.
She just cheated.
Though I'm sure she has been rebooted to a total "girlboss" by now, more than any other. :S
This Harley is modern Harley. Not asylum Harley
I feel the downfall of her character started around the new 52, but it went into full high gear after the first suicide squad movie. Like DC and Rocksteady forget that even though she was a victim of the Joker's manipulation and abuse, all that sympathy goes out of the window when you consider that she was still a willing participant in many horrific crimes, including torturing Jason Todd, showing little to no remorse to her actions.
I think DC should put Harley on a 2-year break, perhaps even more, so they can get their shit together and put her back to her BTAS glory days, you know, back when she was a tragic figure.
The thing is they made her very overpowered and gave her big roles and attention more than she really deserves in movies, video games etc, back then she was only sidekick but you have developers who literally are simping for her.
Yup!!
She’s not overpowered. She’s just someone who uses guns and other weapons
6:32 Cuz Joker’s a man? Idk
Even tho he’s literally Batman’s greatest enemy it’d feel weird to *not* include him
Harley was ruined in New 52, when they retconned her origin into the super generic "vat of chemicals" bullshjt.
It's such a cliché, Kevin Smith mocked the trope in his Bluntman and Chronic comic back in the early 2000s. In hindsight, it feels like he was trying to warn us.
I noticed. I usually like Harley (heck, the second Suicide Squad movie was great, and her cartoon is loads of fun), but this just seemed to be her at her least appealing. Kind of like what Jared Leto was to the Joker.
Also the hairstyle they chose to give her was like.. what?!
Also a big harley fan since the OG quinn. Arkham Asylum came out and loved her even more. As time went on i noticed they've been butchering her backstory ;-;
*/!\ LONG COMMENT*
When I was 12 years old I used to play to the Arkham Games, especially Arkham City with the "Harley Quinn's revenge" DLC. And I was frustated with the very little I had of her and how easily defeatable she was in her "fight" sequences.
I wanted to see more of her!
I wondered why was she so childishly annoying? Wasn't she a psychiatrist before? Shouldn't she be smarter?
Actually she could be one of Batman's worst ennemies.
You see: she has psychiatry knowledge, so she could be able to guess that Batman is Bruce Wayne. Batman's obsession with fighting criminals is hinting he has history with.
He's not killing the criminals so he's probably never comitted any crime (justifying why he's fighting it).
And his equipement must cost a fortune so he must be rich. And who's rich as fuck and is vocal about having his parents murdered and is fighting crime in his politican way? Bruce Wayne!
It would showcase her smartness and make her more threatening for another reason! She should also fight better in a more sadistic way: she used to be the Joker's "girlfriend! Who knows what she's been through but it must've been extremely painful.
And also, if you want to show independant she became, show it's price. Show how traumatized she is, both physically and mentally and show how ruthless she actually is! Show her darkness!
That's the Harley Quinn I'm still waiting to see!
The feminist message would still be here: women who used to be in an abusive relationship had to pay the price for their independance, even when said partner died.
Stop with that forced quirkiness please, just make her a good character.
6:12 there’s lots of comic storylines they could adapt
I genuinely thought she would end up lowering the gun, near tears as she says “…I can’t. I can’t do it.” As she remembers all the good Bruce has done for as many people as he could, including her… and even Joker.
i agree with everything on this video.
im seriously starting to hate harley quinn. i still love her characters especially from BTAS and the DCAU but that's the only time i still like harley.
i didn't care for her in the arkham games (she was a good character and the games in general were amazing) and ever since the first suicide squad movie I have hated her.
i never found her attractive with her newer outfits and hair style and started to find her annoying as hell and just intolerable.
i'm glad she finally split from Joker but since then her character has been dogshit in every way and she has been overused to hell and back.
they definitley need to retire her character for a few years or at the very least give us more of her in the DCAU where she is still her old self we all grew up with
You know what makes less sense? In the Arkham Knight Harley DLC, when you use her “detective mode” equivalent, we can see how insane she really is. She literally has a inner “Harleen Quinzel” begging Quinn to return back to her normal self. It’s literally another personality in her head at this point, it’s that bad. Yet, in the new game, she’s just somehow rehabilitated enough to be normal-ish with zero downsides. Wouldn’t she be remorseful about all the damage she caused? Wouldn’t she try to make amends somehow? Nope, she just smiles and cracks jokes and moves on like “Who cares if I caused the deaths of children, women, and men? I changed now so it’s fine!”
That is what makes that Batman dialogue so annoying. Batman has done nothing BUT held out hope that his villians would change for the better one day. He has NEVER given up hope they could change, even Joker. That’s why he refused to let any of them die if he could help it. Hell, compared to most villians, Batman treated Harley quite nicely and barely put his hands on her throughout the series and when he did, it was child’s play compared to what most male characters get. Yet, here Harley was on her holier-than-thou throne somehow taking the high ground against Batman of all people. Who has Batman ruined mentally? Truly? His Robins? They were orphans without a purpose before him, and they seem like normal people to me. Jason Todd is an exception but that’s due to Joker’s torture, not Batman. Batgirl was just a coincidence, Joker shot her because she was Gordon’s daughter, he never knew she was Batgirl. Batman also influenced Catwoman to do more good and selfless acts, and I don’t think she kills anyone in the series either.
*As a Wonder Woman fan , I’d like to say … DIANA EXIST DC DIANA EXIST* !!!!!
Off topic, but I am REALLY getting sick of people and companies forcing s Harley Quinn and Poison Ivy romance. They are friends! They should stay that way!
I mind how their relationship started as very toxic (which makes sense for both characters), but then out of nowhere DC made them the perfect couple just for brownie points and fans eat that shit up without question
6:30 now she is not in animated movies that are based on comic book storylines without her
But, Dylicious, we have to fight mah-male gase. 😭
I remember back in 16 on the walking dead when people wanted Negan’s head for killing Abraham and Glenn (especially Glenn).
**looks at video**
…..Man, those were simpler times…..
Fun size = joke about being small. I had a shirt when I was a child that said "I'm not short, I'm fun sized." Nothing perverted about it.
I'm excited for Joker 2 and to see what Lady Gaga does with the character cuz this'll be the first live action Harley we see that is truly in her villain era
4:19 it adapts the rebirth
I always find her annoying
Genuinely loved her in the arkham series. I personally really like her as a villain. A sympathetic one but a villain nonetheless. I loved how sadistic and dark she was in the arkham games. Also just loved her outfits too. This game apparently being a continuation of that version of harley makes no sense to me. To me they seem like they have to come from different universes with her getting over the joker so quickly and off screen. Especially since if it's the same version of harley seemingly it would be even harder for her to get over him since this wasn't her getting over a bad breakup. He literally died and the last time we saw her she was in deep grief. Trying to find a way to bring him back somehow.
How humiliating that an animated series from the 90s and on top of that its first appearance has more depth than in a "darker version" in four games Now I know where the person who used to be a good character comes from.
Sometimes i wonder why shes always apart of suicide squad missions, i mean shes an okay character but she doesn't have a lot going for her like the other characters besides being jokers punching bag, and the psychologist stuff-
Not gonna lie I think she hasn’t been a good character for years since the modern era of her.
I played her 1 Time and I was like f this she is bad
Over exposition besides forcing to be a goodie 2 shoes, when in the reality she was a villain. I feel like Deadpool had the same problem.
I wouldn't say rocksteady assassinsted her character, id say WB is trying too hard to make her stand out to feminists.
Rocksteady made her flat in SSKTJL (both in her character and her chest) and they gave her a worse voice actor post Arkham Asylum (no offense)
Buddy, the animated show is utter shite. Complete with songs about feces.
Hey guys I found this video about the suicide squad game
General a lot of people don't know but in the Arkham comics we do see ivy and Harley just something that I just thought 🤷🏽
THANK YOU 🙏🙏
I dont know much about dc big comic lore but isnt harley known to be jokers girl and side kick i thought she fell into the same thing joker fell into wich made him so crazy
I love Arkhamverse Harley, she's pure evil and delusional. Suicide squad kill the Justice League assassinated Harley's character.
Great analysis! Completely agree!
I really miss classic Harley
I heard john wick put supes in the icu with a regular bullet
The harley quinn slander is making me love her even more and honestly I'm glad that she's an anti-hero so that she's shown that she's no longer jokers abused sidekick but a funny redeemable anti-hero
You ok?
Harley was meant to be a Joker's sidekick. Nothing more. She was evil, did horrible things to please the Joker and for her own gain too and I will say it, SHE IS NOT A VICTIM!
I've been having a blast with SSKTJL and the game has received an unfair amount of negative feedback in my opinion. However, you made some valid arguments in this video. Harley's hypocritical moments annoyed me quite a few times actually because she acted like Amanda Waller went too far by holding Hack hostage for "being a kid" or that Boomerang was wrong for putting a bomb in Ivy and Toyman's necks because "they were kids". She's done way, way worse for a very long time. Like torturing Jason Todd who at the time was a teen or putting bombs in gaming consoles and blowing children up while she watched from a distance in the comic tie-in to the Arkham games. She might have even helped Joker kidnap the kids that he chopped up and sewed back together. Harley is an absolute menace and she should remain that way. That's part of her character's charm.
I don't mind a redemption arc for her but I don't want writers to act like she never did any of those other things. The only way her speech to Batman is justified in my eyes is that Harley being self-righteous and hypocritical is also part of her character. Not like her speech was a "girl-boss" moment but more of a "flawed way of thinking" moment.
Also, "fun-sized" is a funny way to describe small people. People who were already mad at the game just took that and ran with it.
Nice! I agree with the main points you’ve said, her being hypocritical was very weird for a rocksteady game to be. although her speech was definitely targeted to be more self righteous and felt very self serving from the writers for sure. I doubt they went into the game wanting it to be a flawed way of thinking and more so targeted to make her seem better than Batman, it felt very ham fisted. Thats my thoughts at least…
Harley speech was hyprical as she murder and tortured kids, causing true trauma, and this is why I hate woke writers they try to make even awful women into good people
As a Jason Todd fan, she already sucked 😌
Honestly, I found her voice more annoying than anything else. XD
It’s so horribly grating to the point that I’d hate her just for that, even if her writing was good. It’s probably the only role I’ve ever heard Tara Strong play where she absolutely sucks, and I don’t know why they ever thought she was good for it.
Starting ? ……
Stupid "Suicide Squad: Kill the Justice League" writers.
The Harley Quinn show is the only iteration of recent that was good tbh. That I’ve seen.
well in that one harely works her writing is good thats the diffrence compared to for example the first sucide squad movie or her own movie atleast she was better handle in james gunn's sucide squad movie. its so much up and down with her character lately
@@adrianstjrnfldt agreed, as a BatmanTAS fan from when I was a kid. Everyone who grew up with the og knows it can never be toped. RIP her voice actor and imop the best Batman as well. They are both gone. Wow. So fuckin sad tbh.
I'm so sorry on my 3rd channel know as Brevin Stringer he love being a bad or good anyway possible so yeah you got to deal with it and that what i had said about it until next time see ya later over and out.