We put the Fastest 350 EVER against the KTM 450
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 19 พ.ค. 2024
- #motocross #racing #motorcycle
This KTM 350SXF matches our 2024 KTM 450SXF on the dyno for horsepower! But which one is better on the track? Twisted Development built the ultimate KTM 350SXF, boosting it from 54 to 60 horsepower. Of course, the 350SXF and 450SXF have two completely different power characters. This "tastefully modded" 450SXF has 37 foot-pounds of torque, while the full-mod 350SXF has a peak torque of only 31 ft. lbs. This creates a unique feel on the track, making the 350 much easier to ride. In this video, we talk to Twisted Development's Jamie Ellis, and we compare lap times between the two bikes with pros, our vet rider Dennis Stapleton, and our novice tester Josh Holley.
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Simply amazing that many of you who’ve commented seem to know so little about going fast. Light, nimble and high reving make it easier for most riders to dominate the bike after just a little practice and allow the rider to push harder for longer.
Most people also think that they need a 450 when in reality they would be much faster on the smaller, lighter, more nimble 250. There's really not too many guys out there that can even ride a 450 to its full potential. The 350 is an awesome machine and I wish more manufacturers would jump on board and make the sport a little safer.
@@MotoLife541I can’t remember what pro rider said it but they said the 450 isn’t fun to ride because it’s a brute
@@jarredschatz7544 I know Wilson said he had to detune his factory Husky to make it rideable (and he's not exactly the smallest guy on the track). Maybe they do things differently in the outdoors, but definitely way too much for a SX track. There's a reason the Star 250 bikes tend to be in the same realm of laptimes as the top 450s out there.
Most of us don't fall for the Marketing of 350 , its a cult following. A quality 250 is all you need if you cant ride a 450 the same speed , less rebuild too. There is not one 350 any any of the colours ktm competing at the top level for a reason .
@@motozz8258 TC 222 dominated for years on 350s that were less powerful and heavier than the current models. It is the top choice for many off-road racers in various levels, but especially pros in multiple series. And a built up 250 would be way more maintenance heavy than a stock 350.
I have been riding 350's for the past 6 years and still love riding them! I also get a lot of holeshots, so that is definitely not a disadvantage with this bike.
If you can ride good enough to take advantage of a 60hp 350, you could handle a 450. I get it though - who doesn't like building trick bikes lol. 450 would be less maintenance too.
If Antonio Cairoli can win MXGP championships on a 350 in the 450 class, I think you should race that 60hp 350 at the AMA Nationals, especially if you're faster on it than the 450.
And Mike Alessi got hole shots on a 350 as well...
Exactly, but the engine life is probably why more teams don't do it at that level
Tony and Jeffrey killed the complete competition both riding 350’s at the MXON of 2012 in Lommel, everyone else in the class on 450’s… Super deep heavy sandtrack and the 350’s were miles ahead of the rest.
A pair of phenomenal sand rider, those 2 would have probably been miles ahead if they were rididng 450s@wernerxldata
@@Andy-co6pn Not sure, the riding style on a 450 is different, not always faster.
They said, “450’s are too powerful and nobody needs one. Bike manufacturers need to built 350’s” Done
Then they said, “My 350 is too slow, let’s spend $5k on it and make it rip like a 450.”
Good job, Cletus.
🙄🙃
People like you simple just can’t comprehend….
@@SouthernUtahMx Nope, I’ve done plenty of mods to many vehicles over the years and I get it.
This 60 hp 350 is peak stupidity.
@@JetSkiSuper7 no you don’t…. Riding a 350 60hp or not is a pleasant experience in the sense of you do not have as much rotating inertia underneath you. It is much easier to ride the bike for longer durations of time. I don’t care how many of your cousins trucks you’ve modified. The fact is you clearly don’t have any experience riding at more than a C class level with moto yet seem to think you are qualified enough to give an opinion.
I understand where you are coming from on this but as an engineering exercise I think it's quite interesting to compare the 2 head to head. But it's a factory deep pockets exercise.
I switched to a KTM 300. It's awesome! I'd like to see a Mitch Payton/Pro Circuit massaged 300 TBI vs 350 vs 450 shootout. Great work MXA guys!
Yes a 2t vs 4t comparison be great.
I've heard a lot of good things about mitch
weird that the japanese don't make a 350 model, maybe like a yzf 350 with the 250 chassi
You could always race an air cooled DR350 if you wanted Japanese 😂
I've been racing 350s now for the past decade (and owned each model generation in that time, as well as a 2012 model). I have felt the improvement in torque on the 19+ models, and the bump to the 23+ generation felt significant as well with the chassis changes. Since we race moto, off-road, and Enduros, the stock 350 has been the perfect balance (and even better that I race the vet classes in moto, so no need for a 250 and 450). While there are times I know I could have more power immediately out of turns, in general the bike has been the best size all around, and has been easier to maintain than a big bore kit on the smaller bike. Still plenty of opportunity to have too much power (much like a 450, tight or gnarly trails can make whiskey throttle moments sketchy 😅). I have heard good things about the big bore kits and mods, but I've been content with the engine character on these machines here in TX.
Currently racing 23 and 24 Husky FC 350s at an expert/A level.
Great job on the video edits. The MXA videos have now become a dirtbike tv series for me. Great work guys keep em coming!
was beaten up after 10 minutes on wooped out tracks riding the 450 bike, tryed a 350, sold the 450,now own 2x350! sold on them, excf six days and a 22 sxf350 both gold! 20 minute motos and more of them every ride!
I love the 350 over the 450. I’m not racing for money just having fun no need to kill myself lol
My ultimate dream is to ride at Glen Helen! To see you all have that place to yourselves is just unbelievable! I cannot even imagine! I'm in Texas so I will likely never ride there but I love the entire layout of that track! I have a 2023 SX-F 350 and I cannot even imagine MORE horsepower!!!
Sick video! What about a 60hp 350 vs a 60hp 300 2 stroke??
Sick production!
I rode a 350 for a couple years, loved it. Then stepped up to a 450sxf... And while it's definitely harder to ride especially in the woods, it's wayyyy more exciting to ride with all that power, and it's definitely more powerful. I'm 6' 1" and 200lbs.
Since we are talking about “National” level performance what about running a Long Rod 350 Crankshaft in a 450 engine Jamie? Since you’re already welding ports up to increase port velocities that’s a non-issue cost wise. You’d also benefit from more rev-ability. Less crank inertia. I think it would be the best of both worlds.
I just have no idea if the crank bearing sizes and journal spacing allow this to be an easy swap in that regard.
So, a 350 set of cases, and 350 crank, with a longer rod right?
@@itsjustweezer4054 I have not studied this at all so I don’t know if you can mix and match parts from the 350 to the 450 or not. My thoughts are the only real complaint you ever hear from the 450 is crank inertia based handling related why not throw a 350 crank with a longer rod in a set of 450 cases. It may or may not require a custom crank since I don’t know the geometry of the two sized engines.
@@straighttimestirrups The bore and stroke of the 350 is
88mm by 57.5mm
The 450 is
95 mm / 63.4 mm
I think it would be killer to have a 450, but with a 350 piston in it. Longer stroke, smaller bore. The 350 crank though, in a 450 case, would fuckin rev to the moon I bet haha. You got me curious now, next 450 I get is getin butched.
@@itsjustweezer4054 it would be easier packaging wise to de-stroke a 450 than to big-bore a 350 that much I would think.
I’m just curious how it would play out to be honest. Rules wise, I don’t know if it would be AMA legal for the Pro’s.
Would have been great to also have a bone stock 350 but with Akit suspension to see the lap times difference.
Great video love that track looks fast & real roller-coaster ride 👍
Great job on comparison/ video 👍
My brother had a 2017 ktm 450sxf that he had twisted development work their magic on and that bike was an absolute rocket ship. Hands down the easiest bike i have ever ridden.
I do appreciate being an underdog tho.
Great video as always. Let's see a 300sx vs 350 vs 450 next. Have heard twisted development has the magic touch on the 300sx as well
race it at the nationals this year and see what you can do with it
Antonio carioli already did in mxgp and im pretty sure he won a title with a 350.
@@adriangalvez5104 I think he won 3 titles on a 350
@@redline85k And then he didn't , he got outclassed by the 450 s . Not a one 350 at the top level of motocross for reason.
@@motozz8258 oh I’m sorry I fact checked myself he won 4 MXGP WORLD TITLES on a 350sx-f. 4 years straight a 350 proved to be a better bike.
Love my 350, engine is also changed, has a lot more torque and power than stock. Doesn’t need a lot of changes, just the right ones. I think the twisted development engine is quite expensive. Payed less for my bike changes including a slightly used set of cone valves and super trax. And it still runs 102 octane gas instead of super expensive VP stuff.
Awesome comparison. Im interested in seeing a 250 vs 350. It'd be cool to see OEM and full mod.
The only QUADZ sighting allowed in motocross videos :)
The 350 is my absolute favorite feeling bike. The lighter piston makes corning feel better than my 450, but it feelsnlore planted and torquey than my old 250s.
Josh, Dennis, awesome vid. Race the 350 for sure, no question. Yes when it's rough, you can find new lines that a 450 can't:-)
Itd be a good GNCC machine w/ a few mods in that direction. Thatd create a bit higher rpms in tight woods riding. Might gain a few mph's (average) over the entirety of a race. I believe compared to a 450, I'm alluding to.
Josh, is MXA going to build a bike like this 350 for you to run at one of the Nationals?
That thing rips
Nah, '24 300SX WMR Re-flash & PC Works pipe...YAT Needed something that handles like a 250f, but has the low end beans to compensate for my weak-ish corner exit speed.
Well it would have been nice to get the track data of these bikes i guess wasn’t possible? With the twisted, and it’s just engine settings they sort of change which basically is then a obsolete thing? Except one can still tune a lot but just without having a extra ecu for it.
Vp pro 7 fuel in the 350? Ive only heard of vp pro 6 fuel?
Thats good power for a 350
Uh ya think?!?!
@@MXJEFF94lmfao
Do a big bore kit for the kx 250f. That would be interesting I'd buy that
Josh you have to do a National or two on that 350 for a good test.
Kudos to anyone who has the CLANKERS to strap on a 450 ! - That kinda power is just Bat-Shite Nutz !! ( Luv it
Why'd you mod that 350?! Jus 'cause I can... 🤣
RPMs, to the moon!!!
Is there any chance you can ask Chase if he tried the 350 at all since switching to KTM? Im always curious if any KTM factory riders actually try the 350 to see if maybe they find it more comfortable or are quicker on it. Or if they are forced to use 450/just assume they would be quicker.
😂 didn't tedesco have a 55hp 250f in like 05?
Bike even looks fast on video. Would love to drop 5 k into my 250fx lol
I really do hope they allow the 300Sx in AMA Racing.
Thought the new 23 350 makes 57hp Stock or are these numbers on here wheel HP
I traded my GasGas MC350F for a new 450 GasGas Factory Edition. I hoped I could ride faster on the 350, but this did not happen. Me as a 95kg, 193cm rider I need the additional horsepower and torque. Now Im back to be able to compete at my races. And even as a Vet rider I dont judge the 450 power as frightening at all.
Big difference if a guy is 15kg lighter then you though. 👍
Which would add just a little more bottom, but leave the great top?
I’m surprised no one has made an aftermarket crankshaft that makes it feel more like a 350 for the 450 meaning you have that power but less inertia giving it that lighter feel without having to spend 10k on the motor with a 350. But 350 is the way to go ✌🏻
If it was as simple as just removing material from the crank, don't you think the factory would do it?
@@OtisFlintwho knows they probably do
Nice work
It would be interesting to put an SX300 into the test😁
True 350cc or 390cc bore?
Thanks for putting that inspirational music over the 350. Hearing free bland music over the rev of the bike, was extremely inspiring!!!... 🤦♂️
Do the 350 .. Good for everyone involved 🔥💪✌️
"Oh MXA is renting out the track? Fuck em, no water"
Especially with more moisture in general this year. Surely they have reserves full enough to prep 😂
God Damn, I love 350's! Best bike out there!
I didn’t know they made a pro 7 fuel.
Josh u should get a bell moto 10 helmet
Fantastico Cavallo 🐎 🐎 🐎 ❤👍
I finally took the plunge about 10 months ago and got a 350. I am having so much more fun riding and racing. You have to ride it differently, but that was part of the challenge. I am racing it with just an ECU (XPR), exhaust and good fuel and am plenty competitive. Since I am 205lbs if I want to go any faster, I just need to loose 15lbs first!
Yeah my 07 450R that was built had 58 horse was stolen 3 weeks ago...
RIP😢
Hey I have an 07 450r for sale. Just picked it up 3 weeks ago, too much power for me. Hit me up
@@sk8er2420😂😂😂
Juicing a 350 to hit a HP number probably means torque is less and revs must be higher, while the 450 lugs. Sounds cool though
60hp at the wheel ?
What if they do that on a 450?
best bike ever !!!
Tons of time and videos trying to make a $5,000 tune on a 350 seem better than a 450. But not many videos showing a $100 detune of a 450 to make it less snappy and easier to ride. Seem like there is an agenda to make someone a bunch of money and throw common sense out the window.
A detuned 450 is still going to handle like a 450 but I can see where you're coming from though
@tcmx712 how exactly is a 450 going to handle differently than a 350? The whooping 5 lb difference? From what I understand they are the same frame, suspension and geometry. Maybe it's the girth of the extra 100cc that makes it handle diff.
could you not just take the 450 and detune it make the tq come on slower more gradual with efi tuning.
Take it even 1 step further, and switch back to a 250cc 2 stroke. By far the cheapest option.
450 for sure. should compare stock 450 vs stock 350. So, really this No Comparison with the 350 having $12,000 of work done to it and the 450 having only $4,000 of work done to it...
Love the 350 mods. I have a husky 350. I'll make some of those mods. Can't afford it all...
Put Mosey Man on it for a national so we can see what it do
NO WAY that the 350 makes 60 hp to the wheels when new 450s make 55ish to the wheel where do people get these numbers wtf
Pure 100% sales pitch, doctored of course. They didn't test against a stock 450, like they claimed because they admit to going into the ecu and messing with the map. LIARS. They made the 450 "different" so the 350 would seem better. Sheesh guys, why?
Remember when they got rid of the 500 class because bikes were too powerful, too much horsepower. Congrats you literally made the 500 class again..
Ge5 a 450f to 70 or even 80 hp
it is hard to understand the Japanese manufacturers resistance to making anything but 250s and 450s
Build one yourself😅 I have a built 310cc yz250f very very close to a ktm 350 still super light
Everything trickles down from the AMA classes to the amateur level. 350s are awesome but the market will remain limited unless the AMA changes the displacement limits. Even guys who are faster around the track on the 350 want the 450 because the starts are so critical. The 450 TQ makes them a lot easier to get out of the hole.
@@OtisFlint yea im not saying a 350 is a better race machine, as you say the start is simply to important, but lot of guys never set foot on a race track expect on practice days so there is a market for the odd displacement bikes i think
They didn’t want to waste any water on you guys or what?
Track looks drier than a popcorn fart 😂😂
Nice
I’ve got a Twisted built 350. It’s pure sex
That O’Neal kit made me throw up in my mouth a little. Sorry you had to wear that Josh.
My friend Tyler Collins gets this much hp out of his ktm 250f
That sounds rad. Can we run it on my dyno?
⬆️ lol he’s calling out your friend Tyler
Bike ballet???
Why? Like maybe 1% of people who ride dirtbikes get 100% of their potential out of them.
Your logic means nobody should need a 450.
Stark varg 80hp.....
Long live the combustion engine 😊 .....ev🤮
yeah were gonna hear sounds you dont normally hear as we have the track..... puts music over the bike sound ffs always the shite music on these films
La moto qui ne sert strictement à rien en plus c est une KTM 🤮🤮
Yawn
So basically it’s a 450? Seems like a waste
Was thinking the exact same thing!!
@@jeffreyburton3607the thing that is the draw of this 60 hp 350 is the 350's motor characteristic. I've been lucky enough to put almost equal hours on a '16 350 and a '18 450 and the 350 is so much smoother but you definitely lose a little in acceleration because they have less torque off the bottom.
The 350 has a much lighter feel and the motor character istics are completely different
Dog will hunt.
Bro. Psshhh
@@852motosports True. But for that price doesnt make sense. And you have to rebuild 350 more often. Fun build though
WHY .. would ANYONE want less from the same FFS .. do you NOT understand "HP" .. you "perceptions" of torque is F'dup .. compare the servicing 👎