Few people can truly appreciate the joy of hearing the bike you've been working on for a while start up and run. Good job dude! Hopefully you get more than 20 hours on her before you have to break back into her!
@@KincadePavich Nice to hear it's running good again! I felt the pain of when that piston drop down so fast..lol. What i see most people do is just tap it down with the wooden hammer-end lightly until it gets started in the cylinder. But it almost seems easier to just do it the old-fashioned manual way like you ended up doing. What is different from the KTM piston vs the Weisico, that the KTM Circle Clip Tool doesn't work the same? I have to do the Top End on my 2020 350EXCF this winter before i have any issues with it and so i know its all new and good. They do use a pretty beefy timing chain. I have 200hr's of single-track riding and a few HS style offroad races with it and it's been great since i got it. I bought it basically new with low hours. Just figured im getting to that point of hours where it might be a good idea to get it done. So i figured id ask about the Weisico piston kit because thats what i planned on going with in my rebuild. I use them in all my 2strokes, so far without any issues, over years now. Also, what kind of warranty, if any, does KTM give on these bikes new? Just curious really.
The Wiseco piston is a traditional circlip design, while the OEM KTM one has the odd flange on it that makes that tool almost mandatory. The ring design on the Wiseco is different too. Given the OEM compression ring seized, and many other comments saying they experienced the same failure, I am glad I went with Wiseco. Bike is at 60 hours now. KTM offers 0 warranty.
I like how u put things in perspective. People would normally get so hot and bothered by a bike not starting, u don’t. Very cool. I wish I had rhat control :)
I don’t think it was oil. I’ve mixed oil many times without an issue, but maybe these newer machines are different. I second the Unifilter and Maxima oil. I run them on everything.
on my 2021 and 2022 kx 250 i put about 50-100 ml extra oil in everytime and has never had an issue, so not tryna hate on ktms but it might be a brand issue with that
You did a great job fixing your motorcycle. I came from a time when bikes were much simpler good old two strokes. You did a great job. I commend you for thoroughly washing your bike first.
Damn. Been there. Actually there now on a quad...found a microscopic crack in cylinder causing low/no compression. Ordering another cylinder and keeping at it with a positive attitude. 😂 GL @ the races🤘
Nice fix! I was kind of glad they rescheduled that race. I wasn't able to make it this weekend. I haven't raced a cross-country race yet and I was going to give it a go this year. Hopefully I can make it in June.
Really enjoying your videos. It's cool to see your positive outlook on a frustrating situation. Still curious what the real cause was. Maybe he rings were installed wrong during assembly?
Quite common when you have a dirty filter on the 250&350 KTM range. Seen this a few times in the workshop where I work. Clean well oiled filters stop it period!
Years ago I had a powervalve just scuff my ring in the smallest area and the bike would barely run above idle. You just never know in race engines. Great video cause the odd does happen sometimes. Thank you.
Good video, engineering is an art and installing piston circlips is indeed a pain! With oil I always use and swear by Castrol Power 1 Race (road and offroad).
Boy Kincade, I have a tough time believing mixing oils would do such a thing. Glad you got your bike back together and running though. Keep up the hard work!
Kincade, great video. Freak failure of the compression ring. The clearance, gap and the "spring" of that piston compression ring are critical. I love your positive attitude. I think I have a man crush. Keep up the great work.
I suppose a lot of other comments are about the filter, and I would say that that sticking is due to fine dust particles in the rings, or coulda been from carbon buildup. Builds up from riding trails, then riding moto makes it hotter, and the ring stuck. All theories, you may never know. luckily it was fine enough to not wear the plating off the cylinder. I think the disposable filters are a bad idea. I always use Uni, since they have the old school 2 layers you can clean thoroughly. Surprisingly, Twin-Air, which was the original multi layer filter in the 70's, in the 80's went to a multi layer combo, but you couldn't clean between them. I use a good filter oil like maxima or belray. Yea, the oil that needs gas or something petroleum to wash it out, but that's because its sticky and will do its job.
Life as a Ktm owner been there done that with crazy problems coming up and parts hard to get went back to the blue bikes. Even put one in a lake one time about a 1/2 was back out riding. Even had a 250 f with 180 hrs before I decided to rebuild it but ran great still
Really nice video, I know you said fine dust wasn't the cause but I saw you were using No toil filters. If you are using the No toil Red oil make sure you shake it well before use it separates and this has caught me out on a old bottle that had separated and would not catch fine dust on my CRF450.
The piston rings stick in, they are free when engine is warm but when it cools the ring grove contracts jamming the ring in closed. Had it twice on 350
I don't think it was a oil issue. I think it was a fluke. If they both have the same specifications you are good. Used No Toil for a long time in West Texas. Its a dusty area. Didn't have leakage with dirt, but did replace filters often due to glue issues. I hated that. I kept like 5 or 6 around and would cycle through. Used a fresh one nearly every ride. Clean filters maybe once every 6 to 8 weeks depending on ride time. I found that I disliked changed filters every year and that if I didn't ride for a week the oil dried out. Went back to Bel-ray. We (wife and I) stayed a mile from the Eccles-Rice stadium. Flew in from TX. Got home last night. Wife surprised me with tickets a while back. Had great seats got wet and saw some good racing with a great views. Not going to lie, missing those temps and mountain views. Rented a convertible and had a blast running it around.
Glad it got fixed. Good video. It absolutely wasn't from mixing your oil. Talk to any of the oil companies that make and mix your oil. They will tell you the same. It was pulling dust in through our filter. I've seen quite a few bikes (Especially early CRF250F) that would kill vales and do this exact same thing with the rings from pulling dust through the filter. I was a shop foreman at a BIG honda, Kawi, Suzuki dealer in the early/mid 2000s and can't tell you how many of this exact same thing I've seen. The intake boot on a four stroke won't show the tell tell signs of dirt like an old two stroke. Your filter was under oiled in those areas. Filters need to be submersed in oil, squeeze the excess out and let them dry for 12-24 hours. Great video.
good effort man, i have very little experience with bikes but i do know the fear and the exaltation of a bike being dead and then starting again. Source: i took my 2005 DRZ400S on some single-track and dropped it on a steep incline in the middle of nowhere, it wouldn't start. Turns out when it fell over i hit the kill switch and forgot to turn it off again :) was only freaking out for 10 mins but it felt like a lifetime
I borrowed a friend's sled this winter and spent 15 minutes alone in the parking lot after my friends took off wondering why it wouldn't start scared sh*tless. Kill switch. Hahaha
Love the video! better footage of a teardown that some instructional videos on here. From my understanding the oil mixing wouldn't do a thing that short term. I've seen a few videos showing small shillings on the oil plug at the first service. You may have just been unlucky and had this get up to the oil ring.
Do you think the overfilled oil could have meant you burnt some and that caused the residue? Just a thought as the top of the piston was black. Nice video. Thanks
Awesome video man, great camera work and knowledge but seriously get a two stroke problem solved, nah just kidding ride what you like and really appreciate the work you put in :)
I always run non ethanol fuel. There is a chance the first owner (first 4 hours of engine time) ran ethanol, but I would think that would've occurred sooner if that was the case.
Be careful with testing the fuel pressure just on cranking, etc. I had one that would lose pressure as i put a load on it. Turns out there was a hairline crack in the stock MAHLE Fuel Filter, and would only leak under full pressure or while Bench Testing the pump and capping the outlet. Replaced it with a metal fuel filter in-tank, and added an External Micron screen Fuel Filter and replaced all the fittings with aluminum from the tank to the Injector. I haven't installed the better angle metal fuel injector bracket but i will because its also that somewhat weak plastic they used.. Ive heard too many stories of people getting stuck out in the woods because of a broken fuel nipple or a clogged fuel filter mesh screen with the stock filter set up. Now i maintain a steady fuel pressure even when at WOT in 3rd or 4th Gear.. I made an inline fuel gauge with the stock plastic fuel line pieces like the quick disconnect nipples to add it inline with no tools, and remove it with no tools. Then you can route it up to the gas cap area or something and you can see the gauge as you ride the bike. You seem to unfortunately have an internal engine issue though it seems with the crankcase pressure buildup to force oil out like that.. What does KTM recommend for these new bikes as far as a Break-in period? I have a 2020 Ktm 350excf with a bunch of XCF & SXF parts on it and i love it for fast single track and enduro/trail riding. I bought it with low hours in 2020 but the owner said he basically took it easy with it for the first 5 hours and then did and oill change and then rode it full throttle 100%. It seems like with any engine, whether its a dirt bike or a new car you should still be doing a small break-in. Its my opinion at least, that manufacturer's dont recommend doing the break-in because theyre afraid that it will seem to be like too much work/stres out about breaking in the motor, exactly how the Manual would tell you to do. Also normally its fine with no break-in all and to the company its probably just seems like one more thing to add on for the new owner to do before they can actually ride the bike how they want too... On a new Jet ski for example, the ECU itself sets the limit as time goes on, in a ~5hr break-in peroid of limited full throttle time, etc, depending on the manufacturer like Yamaha or Kawasaki..
What do you mean what weight? My suspension is bone stock. I weight 165 naked. I set my air pressure to whatever is recommended for my weight; don't remember the PSI off the top of my head.
recently i faced exactly the same problem on my 250 sxf.. with the compression ring.. an d i remember that i had blew my mind... suddenly no compression and didn't start...
On multiple bikes, I’ve had the same problem on KTM 450 350 (will work on all KTM)Won’t start, disconnect, the fuel line off the tank with the push button release, then put it back on, and it will fire right up, if not do same process twice it will work every time.
Is it normal for 4 strokes to have a tiny bit of oil coming out of the breather tube? I have 30 hours on my 22 yz250f, and have noticed my glide plate has a touch of oil under the breather tube
I would say not, I have never seen oil coming out of a breather on any of my 4 strokes unless there was an issue. That said, I don't know that for sure, especially with a different make. If the bike is running right, I probably wouldn't worry much if it's minimal.
KTM= Keeps Taking Money. The best air filter set up is unifilters with Maxima FFT oil. On dusty days, add an oiled filter skin than be pulled of in 30 seconds at the track. I don't want to bash any products, but the no toil oil doesn't feel very sticky to me especially compared to the Maxima.
I dumped No Toil after finding huge puddles dripping out of my airbox. My filter skills haven't changed muching 20 years. I don't get run off like that with FFT or Belray filter oil.
With the green NoToil oil, it is designed to work with any filter and it has alcohol in it. If you don't allow a NoToil filter to properly dry after applying, the alcohol (along with some of the sticky stuff) will drip out instead of evaporate. NoToil advertises this, but it's not that commonly known I suppose. I've been running NoToil since I started riding, and this is the first time I've had any sort of issue. Again, I blame the 4 year old filter that's been washed and used countless times, not the oil. Just my personal opinion. I've put NoToil through some nasty conditions, and this is the first filter failure I've ever seen.
I could tell from that first crank of the starter spinning much faster than normal it had no compression and needed to come apart. Dirt passing through a air filter is a result of poor air filter oiling.
You did a lot better than my 2023 350 EXCF-6 days That did a whole 1h58 minutes before destroying itself €600 on parts and free labour as an 'apology" from the dealer and I got rid of it KTMs are not what they used to be - replacing with a WR450 - not quite as good but tenfold more reliable ;)
This is an AWESOME video - but I'll be honest... as a Honda rider looking at buying my FIRST KTM ever this week (350 XC-f) I am super freaked out that seemingly nothing made this engine blow up. No dirt... not even positive that it was oil. So weird? I've never seen anything like that in riding my Hondas for 43 years. Are KTM's just very sensitive machines? I don't have the technical prowess to diagnose like you did - that was very impressive. My technical challenges I've had with Hondas have been limited to carb jetting and starting issues, and that's it.
You know, I've had 3 of these bikes over the years and I love them. This is the first failure I've experienced like this, and there are a handful of comments on this video of people who have experienced the same failure. Who knows if it was a QC issue, or if quality is diminishing. I wouldn't let this one video deter you from buying a KTM personally, and I'm still likely to buy another. Personal opinion I think every manufacturer has failures sometimes, and every bike nowadays is very good.
Wiseco isn't the best choice , also wossner and ProX. The best is Vertex , those pistons are so good that KTM uses those as OEM . Yes you can buy more expensive OEM piston which will actually be a cheaper vertex
Have a friend with a 2021 350 sxf that has done this twice in under 50 hours. Works fine until it suddenly loses compression. Seems to be an issue with the OEM piston getting "squished" and pinching the top ring. He bought a aftermarket piston for it (cant remember what brand) no issues after that so far
Super interesting. There have been like 5 comments similar to this one on this video now. Makes me feel a little better knowing it *might* have been out of my control. Also makes me feel better knowing I went Wiseco, as the ring design is significantly different and hopefully less prone to failure. All said and done, I was only out a bike for like 2 weeks and now she's ripping again.
Looking at what you took out of the piston ring groove, it looks a lot more like some of that carbon build up on the piston came loose and got in the groove. And since you didn't change the fuel mixture, it will happen again. I believe the motorcycle companies, to satisfy the pollution of the bike have made the exhaust out lets too small and is causing the build up. So if it happens again either lean out your engine more or open up the exhaust. Just my opinion.
@@KincadePavich Well I guess take it to the dealership to see if it can be reprogramed. But that is the reason I like carbs. But I was going to say, just looking at my new 2 stroke the exhaust is being choked off having to go throw this 1 inch pipe. But in your case the EFI would adjust to that and still leave that carbon build up. Once I get my broke in, I'm going to a fab shop and open that exhaust up so the engine can breath better. If it can't get out then it can't get in. But again I don't recommend that for yours because if that EFI. It'll just compensate for it and still put carbine build up on yours. Try to find an old mechanic and see what he thinks.
I love the 350. This is my 3rd one. I'm not a huge fan of 250Fs due to constantly having to rev to the moob, and 450s are just unnecessary in most situations despite being a ton of fun. That's my opinion.
I love how dirt bike people are just expected to rip motors down to the bottom end even on new bikes. A street bike guy would nope out to a dealership immediately. Lol
I like watching people crashing cars. And I like watching kids hurting them selves on bikes, skateboards and other things. And most of all I like watching people wrenching with things they know very little about, it' so funny. Thanks this was enjoyable.
over filled the oil did you let the oil out and refill or start it over filled if you did this you could have cracked the piston ktm's are known for making thin piston tops my 640 adventure went back three times and kept cracking pistons then i got an after market piston had them put that in that was twenty years ago it don't use oil goes like a demon.
Had a husky 450 not start in the sand. A ton of sand bypassed the air filter. Took it apart to see rings siezed. No scaring anywhere. Then had the same thing happen to two Honda 450s and took the spark plug out and put oil in the cylinder and freed them up and they ran fine 😂 clean ya filthy filters
I'd almost guarantee the cause was baked on oil sticking the ring, but I'd wager the cause of the baked on oil was more likely heat related than due to mixing oils.
It wasnt the mixing of the oils that caused this it was dirt. Contamination got into the oil then into the ring gap sticking your ring. For you ktm haters that can happen to any engine. The very close tolerance's in the ktm caused this to happen with very little dirt.
I blew my 21 KTM 350 XC-F up at 27.1hrs at a Hare Scramble right after the first hour. Diagnostic. Ring failed, broke cylinder wall and piston, went to bottom end, destroyed the crank. I fixed the bike and immediately sold it. I went back to a 300 XC-W. 4 strokes are way too expensive.
I switched to a 2 stroke with the same thought in mind, and then the 4 stroke itch got me... Hopefully this bike is rock solid now. Time will tell. My GasGas 350 last year had 180 hours on it and I never even pulled the tank off.
Few people can truly appreciate the joy of hearing the bike you've been working on for a while start up and run. Good job dude! Hopefully you get more than 20 hours on her before you have to break back into her!
About 13 on her since this video, fingers crossed! Thanks for the comment!
@@KincadePavich Nice to hear it's running good again! I felt the pain of when that piston drop down so fast..lol. What i see most people do is just tap it down with the wooden hammer-end lightly until it gets started in the cylinder. But it almost seems easier to just do it the old-fashioned manual way like you ended up doing.
What is different from the KTM piston vs the Weisico, that the KTM Circle Clip Tool doesn't work the same?
I have to do the Top End on my 2020 350EXCF this winter before i have any issues with it and so i know its all new and good. They do use a pretty beefy timing chain. I have 200hr's of single-track riding and a few HS style offroad races with it and it's been great since i got it. I bought it basically new with low hours. Just figured im getting to that point of hours where it might be a good idea to get it done.
So i figured id ask about the Weisico piston kit because thats what i planned on going with in my rebuild. I use them in all my 2strokes, so far without any issues, over years now.
Also, what kind of warranty, if any, does KTM give on these bikes new? Just curious really.
The Wiseco piston is a traditional circlip design, while the OEM KTM one has the odd flange on it that makes that tool almost mandatory. The ring design on the Wiseco is different too. Given the OEM compression ring seized, and many other comments saying they experienced the same failure, I am glad I went with Wiseco. Bike is at 60 hours now. KTM offers 0 warranty.
I like how u put things in perspective. People would normally get so hot and bothered by a bike not starting, u don’t. Very cool. I wish I had rhat control :)
I don’t think it was oil. I’ve mixed oil many times without an issue, but maybe these newer machines are different. I second the Unifilter and Maxima oil. I run them on everything.
on my 2021 and 2022 kx 250 i put about 50-100 ml extra oil in everytime and has never had an issue, so not tryna hate on ktms but it might be a brand issue with that
oh just watched the full vid to realize he meant mixing oil lol, but yeah never have done that and i wouldnt want to do that
You did a great job fixing your motorcycle. I came from a time when bikes were much simpler good old two strokes. You did a great job. I commend you for thoroughly washing your bike first.
I'm dreading this day with my crf, was nice to see how u sorted it out may have to refer back to this one day good luck in the racing👍
Even with mistakes it's cheaper to do all the maintenance and repair yourself. Kudos.
Not if you install piston rings as he did
Damn. Been there. Actually there now on a quad...found a microscopic crack in cylinder causing low/no compression. Ordering another cylinder and keeping at it with a positive attitude. 😂 GL @ the races🤘
Nice fix! I was kind of glad they rescheduled that race. I wasn't able to make it this weekend. I haven't raced a cross-country race yet and I was going to give it a go this year. Hopefully I can make it in June.
Always a smile on ur face, doing ur thing, explaining it nice and easy, ur so underrated in my opinion! Props from italy🇮🇹
Thank you for the kind words!
sorry for your trouble, but I'm glad you made this video. it was fun to watch.
So sick. Good work and awesome attitude man🤙
Thanks a lot, glad you enjoyed!
Glad to see you got it diagnosed and fixed. Thanks for sharing your experience with us! 👍
Thanks for watching!
Really enjoying your videos. It's cool to see your positive outlook on a frustrating situation. Still curious what the real cause was. Maybe he rings were installed wrong during assembly?
Quite common when you have a dirty filter on the 250&350 KTM range. Seen this a few times in the workshop where I work. Clean well oiled filters stop it period!
Lol! KTMs R snowflakes.
its so satisfying working on your own stuff and being successful
Years ago I had a powervalve just scuff my ring in the smallest area and the bike would barely run above idle. You just never know in race engines. Great video cause the odd does happen sometimes. Thank you.
Just discovered you this morning. Great videos man!
Welcome to the channel!
Good video, engineering is an art and installing piston circlips is indeed a pain! With oil I always use and swear by Castrol Power 1 Race (road and offroad).
Great video thanks for sharing.
Liked and subscribed 👍
Boy Kincade, I have a tough time believing mixing oils would do such a thing. Glad you got your bike back together and running though. Keep up the hard work!
I will never know for sure... Thank you!
Kincade, great video. Freak failure of the compression ring. The clearance, gap and the "spring" of that piston compression ring are critical. I love your positive attitude. I think I have a man crush. Keep up the great work.
Thanks so much for the comment!
Thanks for this recording, because I have a copy pace example on my bike
I suppose a lot of other comments are about the filter, and I would say that that sticking is due to fine dust particles in the rings, or coulda been from carbon buildup. Builds up from riding trails, then riding moto makes it hotter, and the ring stuck. All theories, you may never know. luckily it was fine enough to not wear the plating off the cylinder. I think the disposable filters are a bad idea. I always use Uni, since they have the old school 2 layers you can clean thoroughly. Surprisingly, Twin-Air, which was the original multi layer filter in the 70's, in the 80's went to a multi layer combo, but you couldn't clean between them. I use a good filter oil like maxima or belray. Yea, the oil that needs gas or something petroleum to wash it out, but that's because its sticky and will do its job.
Life as a Ktm owner been there done that with crazy problems coming up and parts hard to get went back to the blue bikes. Even put one in a lake one time about a 1/2 was back out riding. Even had a 250 f with 180 hrs before I decided to rebuild it but ran great still
such an underrated channel, keep up the good work!
Thank you!
Really nice video, I know you said fine dust wasn't the cause but I saw you were using No toil filters. If you are using the No toil Red oil make sure you shake it well before use it separates and this has caught me out on a old bottle that had separated and would not catch fine dust on my CRF450.
Good idea to change that piston your skills on tearing that thing down putting it back together are great I like videos show things like this one
The early crf450 valves stretched on me early and it sucked to not start at Hangtown.
Way to go, bro
It wasn’t the oil, it was the fine dust that got through the air filter.
I've seen silt stick the top ring, no go on notoil, and dirt tricks cam chain tensioner, make sure you loose allen plug on tensioner and remove
Good on you showing all the mistakes and mess ups on the way. Shit happens.
The piston rings stick in, they are free when engine is warm but when it cools the ring grove contracts jamming the ring in closed. Had it twice on 350
Ahhh , nice fix mate. Wish I the patience to do that if needed..
wow - you are really good at mechanics.
I don't think it was a oil issue. I think it was a fluke. If they both have the same specifications you are good. Used No Toil for a long time in West Texas. Its a dusty area. Didn't have leakage with dirt, but did replace filters often due to glue issues. I hated that. I kept like 5 or 6 around and would cycle through. Used a fresh one nearly every ride. Clean filters maybe once every 6 to 8 weeks depending on ride time. I found that I disliked changed filters every year and that if I didn't ride for a week the oil dried out. Went back to Bel-ray. We (wife and I) stayed a mile from the Eccles-Rice stadium. Flew in from TX. Got home last night. Wife surprised me with tickets a while back. Had great seats got wet and saw some good racing with a great views. Not going to lie, missing those temps and mountain views. Rented a convertible and had a blast running it around.
Bro the biggest change was ur haircut 😂 nice Video
do u like it
Glad it got fixed. Good video. It absolutely wasn't from mixing your oil. Talk to any of the oil companies that make and mix your oil. They will tell you the same. It was pulling dust in through our filter. I've seen quite a few bikes (Especially early CRF250F) that would kill vales and do this exact same thing with the rings from pulling dust through the filter. I was a shop foreman at a BIG honda, Kawi, Suzuki dealer in the early/mid 2000s and can't tell you how many of this exact same thing I've seen. The intake boot on a four stroke won't show the tell tell signs of dirt like an old two stroke. Your filter was under oiled in those areas. Filters need to be submersed in oil, squeeze the excess out and let them dry for 12-24 hours. Great video.
Thanks for the feedback! Glad you enjoyed the video. Bike is still going strong currently at almost 60 hours.
good effort man, i have very little experience with bikes but i do know the fear and the exaltation of a bike being dead and then starting again. Source: i took my 2005 DRZ400S on some single-track and dropped it on a steep incline in the middle of nowhere, it wouldn't start. Turns out when it fell over i hit the kill switch and forgot to turn it off again :) was only freaking out for 10 mins but it felt like a lifetime
I borrowed a friend's sled this winter and spent 15 minutes alone in the parking lot after my friends took off wondering why it wouldn't start scared sh*tless. Kill switch. Hahaha
Love the video! better footage of a teardown that some instructional videos on here. From my understanding the oil mixing wouldn't do a thing that short term. I've seen a few videos showing small shillings on the oil plug at the first service. You may have just been unlucky and had this get up to the oil ring.
That shirt youre wearing after you fixed it and it started it looks awesome
Also are you makimg a video on the your friends RM that blew up?
Thank you, Pryme MX! Yes, we tore his engine apart! I'll post the video once she's back together and running.
Very fast haircut brother😂. Nice work
Thanks for sharing, learned a lot. May i ask what kind of tank your using and how many gallons/liters can it hold? Thanks again.
It is the tank for the factory edition. I believe IMS makes them but I'm not entirely sure. It's 2.64 gallons.
Do you think the overfilled oil could have meant you burnt some and that caused the residue? Just a thought as the top of the piston was black. Nice video. Thanks
Awesome video man, great camera work and knowledge but seriously get a two stroke problem solved, nah just kidding ride what you like and really appreciate the work you put in :)
Haha might have to give a '24 300 XC a shot next season!
I have seen this after a hot engine hit water ! The ring will stick in the piston! Two different units one was a buggy !
Should have started with a new piston and rings. Happy you eventually got up and running again.
Damn bro u tackle that engine like a boss, i am still intimidated to bust into the 4 stroke engine.
Gotta do what you gotta do! I'm still intimidated by 4 strokes as well. Every time makes me more confident though!
Ktm, You are the R&D
I would say you had carbon jamming the compression ring in the groove. You may want to lean it out a bit.
Compliments on the fresh haircut. You are ready for that calendar shoot now!
Wow, goes to show how long ago this video was now. Bike has 75 hours and my hair is super long again haha
I've had some issues with ethanol in fuel and then having carbon build up!
I always run non ethanol fuel. There is a chance the first owner (first 4 hours of engine time) ran ethanol, but I would think that would've occurred sooner if that was the case.
Be careful with testing the fuel pressure just on cranking, etc. I had one that would lose pressure as i put a load on it. Turns out there was a hairline crack in the stock MAHLE Fuel Filter, and would only leak under full pressure or while Bench Testing the pump and capping the outlet. Replaced it with a metal fuel filter in-tank, and added an External Micron screen Fuel Filter and replaced all the fittings with aluminum from the tank to the Injector. I haven't installed the better angle metal fuel injector bracket but i will because its also that somewhat weak plastic they used..
Ive heard too many stories of people getting stuck out in the woods because of a broken fuel nipple or a clogged fuel filter mesh screen with the stock filter set up.
Now i maintain a steady fuel pressure even when at WOT in 3rd or 4th Gear.. I made an inline fuel gauge with the stock plastic fuel line pieces like the quick disconnect nipples to add it inline with no tools, and remove it with no tools.
Then you can route it up to the gas cap area or something and you can see the gauge as you ride the bike.
You seem to unfortunately have an internal engine issue though it seems with the crankcase pressure buildup to force oil out like that..
What does KTM recommend for these new bikes as far as a Break-in period?
I have a 2020 Ktm 350excf with a bunch of XCF & SXF parts on it and i love it for fast single track and enduro/trail riding. I bought it with low hours in 2020 but the owner said he basically took it easy with it for the first 5 hours and then did and oill change and then rode it full throttle 100%.
It seems like with any engine, whether its a dirt bike or a new car you should still be doing a small break-in.
Its my opinion at least, that manufacturer's dont recommend doing the break-in because theyre afraid that it will seem to be like too much work/stres out about breaking in the motor, exactly how the Manual would tell you to do. Also normally its fine with no break-in all and to the company its probably just seems like one more thing to add on for the new owner to do before they can actually ride the bike how they want too...
On a new Jet ski for example, the ECU itself sets the limit as time goes on, in a ~5hr break-in peroid of limited full throttle time, etc, depending on the manufacturer like Yamaha or Kawasaki..
mixing the oil Nope, some dirt blasted that ring lan yes
Damn dude, all that from overfilling with oil?! Remind me to be super precise next oil change lol
hahaha very cool to do your own diag n fix! my guess is, factory defect!
happened to me on my 350 2020 the compression ring got stuck at 7 hours
Wow... the garage setup, the attitude, the knowledge... you have just gained a new subscriber :)
Welcome to the channel!
My 21 450 did the same thing stuck top ring on dusty track new top end all good
No shit. Multiple people have said this now. How wild.
She’s alive!
Let's gooo!
A friend of mine brought a 5 hr 2019 husky fe 350. After a few hours the oil pump gear failed and locked the engine.
Sorry this happened to you, but I appreciate your detailed video. Lemonade out of lemons. 👍
lemons alright orange lemons
If there a way to get the dirt out of the engine?
I have done that mistake too.
Never mix oils
Subscribed as soon as you cracked a beer mid build.
Welcome! It happens frequently 😂
Mixing the brands of oils seems unlikely to me, glad you got it fixed
Will never know for sure. There have now been 5+ comments on this video of people reporting compression rings getting stuck on new KTMs.
What weight do you usually set your suspension to? How much do you weigh? 👍👍
I set mine to highly suspicious
What do you mean what weight? My suspension is bone stock. I weight 165 naked. I set my air pressure to whatever is recommended for my weight; don't remember the PSI off the top of my head.
recently i faced exactly the same problem on my 250 sxf.. with the compression ring.. an d i remember that i had blew my mind... suddenly no compression and didn't start...
Wild! Multiple people have said this in the comments now!
On multiple bikes, I’ve had the same problem on KTM 450 350 (will work on all KTM)Won’t start, disconnect, the fuel line off the tank with the push button release, then put it back on, and it will fire right up, if not do same process twice it will work every time.
If you watch the video you will see this was clearly not the issue!
I’m assuming it’s NC music around the 3:50 mark. Link to the music you used?
Is it normal for 4 strokes to have a tiny bit of oil coming out of the breather tube? I have 30 hours on my 22 yz250f, and have noticed my glide plate has a touch of oil under the breather tube
I would say not, I have never seen oil coming out of a breather on any of my 4 strokes unless there was an issue. That said, I don't know that for sure, especially with a different make. If the bike is running right, I probably wouldn't worry much if it's minimal.
KTM= Keeps Taking Money. The best air filter set up is unifilters with Maxima FFT oil. On dusty days, add an oiled filter skin than be pulled of in 30 seconds at the track. I don't want to bash any products, but the no toil oil doesn't feel very sticky to me especially compared to the Maxima.
I dumped No Toil after finding huge puddles dripping out of my airbox. My filter skills haven't changed muching 20 years. I don't get run off like that with FFT or Belray filter oil.
With the green NoToil oil, it is designed to work with any filter and it has alcohol in it. If you don't allow a NoToil filter to properly dry after applying, the alcohol (along with some of the sticky stuff) will drip out instead of evaporate. NoToil advertises this, but it's not that commonly known I suppose. I've been running NoToil since I started riding, and this is the first time I've had any sort of issue. Again, I blame the 4 year old filter that's been washed and used countless times, not the oil. Just my personal opinion. I've put NoToil through some nasty conditions, and this is the first filter failure I've ever seen.
Use belray air filter oil ,it’s the best .
@@KincadePavich My observation was based off of the red no toil, sounds like the green oil may be an improvement over the red.
Red PJ1 is cheap and works great in my experience super sticky and not a lot of excess spray.
I could tell from that first crank of the starter spinning much faster than normal it had no compression and needed to come apart. Dirt passing through a air filter is a result of poor air filter oiling.
I don't think it was poor oiling, I think the air filter itself was just worn out. Lesson learned.
Mikey for the win!
Do they make ez circlips for this bike/ piston? They sure make life easier
I'm not sure but I agree - I don't know why all circlips aren't designed that way!
You did a lot better than my 2023 350 EXCF-6 days
That did a whole 1h58 minutes before destroying itself
€600 on parts and free labour as an 'apology" from the dealer and I got rid of it
KTMs are not what they used to be - replacing with a WR450 - not quite as good but tenfold more reliable ;)
This is an AWESOME video - but I'll be honest... as a Honda rider looking at buying my FIRST KTM ever this week (350 XC-f) I am super freaked out that seemingly nothing made this engine blow up. No dirt... not even positive that it was oil. So weird? I've never seen anything like that in riding my Hondas for 43 years. Are KTM's just very sensitive machines? I don't have the technical prowess to diagnose like you did - that was very impressive. My technical challenges I've had with Hondas have been limited to carb jetting and starting issues, and that's it.
You know, I've had 3 of these bikes over the years and I love them. This is the first failure I've experienced like this, and there are a handful of comments on this video of people who have experienced the same failure. Who knows if it was a QC issue, or if quality is diminishing. I wouldn't let this one video deter you from buying a KTM personally, and I'm still likely to buy another. Personal opinion I think every manufacturer has failures sometimes, and every bike nowadays is very good.
Ooooooo... I'd change the rings too!!!
I changed the piston and rings in this video lol
@@KincadePavich 7:09 and 9:04 well... you didn't say you did LMFFFAAAOOO sorry I just went off what you said 🤣🤦♂️
Wiseco isn't the best choice , also wossner and ProX. The best is Vertex , those pistons are so good that KTM uses those as OEM . Yes you can buy more expensive OEM piston which will actually be a cheaper vertex
Is that an autographed picture of Malcolm Smith? He a legend from my era.
Sure is! Signed to my brother and I. My dad knows Malcolm well. In fact, his daughter used to be my babysitter haha!
Nice haircut too 😁
NICE YAMAHA BIKE I SAW ❤❤🎉😊
Have a friend with a 2021 350 sxf that has done this twice in under 50 hours. Works fine until it suddenly loses compression. Seems to be an issue with the OEM piston getting "squished" and pinching the top ring. He bought a aftermarket piston for it (cant remember what brand) no issues after that so far
Super interesting. There have been like 5 comments similar to this one on this video now. Makes me feel a little better knowing it *might* have been out of my control. Also makes me feel better knowing I went Wiseco, as the ring design is significantly different and hopefully less prone to failure. All said and done, I was only out a bike for like 2 weeks and now she's ripping again.
Looking at what you took out of the piston ring groove, it looks a lot more like some of that carbon build up on the piston came loose and got in the groove. And since you didn't change the fuel mixture, it will happen again. I believe the motorcycle companies, to satisfy the pollution of the bike have made the exhaust out lets too small and is causing the build up. So if it happens again either lean out your engine more or open up the exhaust. Just my opinion.
It's EFI. What am I supposed to do?
@@KincadePavich Well I guess take it to the dealership to see if it can be reprogramed. But that is the reason I like carbs. But I was going to say, just looking at my new 2 stroke the exhaust is being choked off having to go throw this 1 inch pipe. But in your case the EFI would adjust to that and still leave that carbon build up. Once I get my broke in, I'm going to a fab shop and open that exhaust up so the engine can breath better. If it can't get out then it can't get in. But again I don't recommend that for yours because if that EFI. It'll just compensate for it and still put carbine build up on yours. Try to find an old mechanic and see what he thinks.
are you liking the 350? i just sold my 250 and im looking for either a 350 or 450 but i don't know anyone that has road a 350
I love the 350. This is my 3rd one. I'm not a huge fan of 250Fs due to constantly having to rev to the moob, and 450s are just unnecessary in most situations despite being a ton of fun. That's my opinion.
after how many hours you need to change the piston again ?
I'll probably run this for at least 100 hours. Probably more honestly.
I love how dirt bike people are just expected to rip motors down to the bottom end even on new bikes. A street bike guy would nope out to a dealership immediately. Lol
I'd be pretty intimidated on a street bike. Depends if I could find a good thorough service manual!
What about new oil?
I like watching people crashing cars. And I like watching kids hurting them selves on bikes, skateboards and other things.
And most of all I like watching people wrenching with things they know very little about, it' so funny. Thanks this was enjoyable.
Damn, for an asshole I really got a kick out of this comment. Glad you enjoyed!
Do you oil your filters?
Dry as the Sahara
@@KincadePavich Your air filter looks like a k&N style with need oiled to filter out the dirt!
Ya gotta gently tap the piston in there. NOT a steady hard push. Tapping it incrementally slides it in there. But you live and learn.
more likely dirt indigestion....very fine powder grinding itself into ring landings.
Also just order oem pistons. Weisco are forged low silica content less forgiving more prone to cold seizures
And OEM are over twice the price. I've had great experiences with Wiseco, I'll take my chances.
Stator wire rubbed from seat? Im 1 min in
Jesus man😮😮😮😮
over filled the oil did you let the oil out and refill or start it over filled if you did this you could have cracked the piston ktm's are known for making thin piston tops my 640 adventure went back three times and kept cracking pistons then i got an after market piston had them put that in that was twenty years ago it don't use oil goes like a demon.
Had a husky 450 not start in the sand. A ton of sand bypassed the air filter. Took it apart to see rings siezed. No scaring anywhere. Then had the same thing happen to two Honda 450s and took the spark plug out and put oil in the cylinder and freed them up and they ran fine 😂 clean ya filthy filters
I'd almost guarantee the cause was baked on oil sticking the ring, but I'd wager the cause of the baked on oil was more likely heat related than due to mixing oils.
"I know what's wrong with it-"
Ain’t got no gas in it
Its ORANGE….KTM=high maintenance junk
@@willkelley7747 no poor maintenance was the issue extra oil forced the piston ring in that airfilter wasn’t oiled enough and needed changing earlier
@@willkelley7747 Poor boy, KTM upset you !!
It wasnt the mixing of the oils that caused this it was dirt. Contamination got into the oil then into the ring gap sticking your ring. For you ktm haters that can happen to any engine. The very close tolerance's in the ktm caused this to happen with very little dirt.
I blew my 21 KTM 350 XC-F up at 27.1hrs at a Hare Scramble right after the first hour. Diagnostic. Ring failed, broke cylinder wall and piston, went to bottom end, destroyed the crank.
I fixed the bike and immediately sold it. I went back to a 300 XC-W. 4 strokes are way too expensive.
I switched to a 2 stroke with the same thought in mind, and then the 4 stroke itch got me... Hopefully this bike is rock solid now. Time will tell. My GasGas 350 last year had 180 hours on it and I never even pulled the tank off.