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The Unmade 1997 Venom Movie - Canned Goods
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 5 ส.ค. 2024
- In 1997, David S. Goyer delivered a draft for a Venom movie to New Line Cinema. Dolphin Lundgren was heavily rumored to play Eddie Brock.
The film, bears a shocking resemblance to Venom’s 2018 debut film, chief of which is it’s lack of Spider-Man in the story due to film rights. It also made strange deviations, for example, Eddie (spelled ‘Eddy’ in the script) is a wiry wimp.
In the end, the film went unmade, never officially being cancelled, but more so being forgotten about.
So join us today as we break down the development, plot, and cancellation of the 1997 draft of Venom.
Enjoy!
00:00 Intro
00:34 Venom 1997’s Development
01:26 Venom 1997 Script Plot Breakdown
12:29 Why Did Venom 1997 Get Cancelled?
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#Venom #Carnage #CancelledMovies
This version doesn’t sound that bad, but then I imagine how bad the 90s CGI would’ve been.
Did you see the trailer for venom 2…? Probably better than that…….
90s CGI like the Spawn film? 😁
@@nick6var. Yeah, basically.
Considering the fact we got Godzilla 1998 at the same time (Thanks Sony), and compared to the CGI used in Hulk's 2004 film, it would have been horrendous or badly animated. The CGI for him wasn't ready, and barely was when Spiderman 3 came out.
It would probably be more like the Spawn movie in the 90's.
It's insane how popular Venom was at this time that he almost got a movie before Spider-Man...
Yea thats why I can understand why Avi Arad railroaded Raimi so hard and his script for spiderman 3 to have him in it. Ironically that tanked venoms popularity for a bit 😆
I don’t even know how the producers or the studio would even be able to comprehend the concept of a solo Venom movie without Spider-Man especially in the 90s sounds too crazy for them
@@gambeano I mean the problems with Venom in that movie were easy fixes if Raimi had bothered to actually read a Venom comic
@@Danbo22987 kinda. But not really. He had to adjust the venom to the story that he wanted to do. They literally put venom in a story that was never intended to include him. And had to not put too much attention on him. Give venom enough writing to make the studios happy and enough writing to tell the original story.
@@loganwithlightsabers3051
And yet that’s we got with Venom’s solo movie. No Spider-Man.
"Carnage turns his hand into a shotgun"
Okay ya lost me, but go on
When did carnage can change his hand into a gun and Sharp weapon and venom only create spike from his body
@@blazing_thunder1829 I dont know when Venom could do that with sharp weapons? Only Carnage could do that
I had to rewind to make sure I heard that right
Carnage can shoot deadly shrapnels so a shotgun like attack isn't unreasonable.
@@AxisChurchDevotee exactly
Cassidy jumping to his death because he needs the symbiote is also pretty similar to Eddie getting himself killed in Spider-Man 3.
Before the first Venom movie came out, I was under the assumption that you simply couldn't have Venom without Spider-Man. The two are inseparable and completely linked together. I guess (going on pre-release mind here) a solo Venom movie could work if they did a Spider-Man film with the black suit and Eddie surviving until the end. But that was before the first Venom movie came out, and in my opinion they pulled it off perfectly. I really enjoyed this first draft, I think the reason for its similarities with what we got must've been from executives dusting off the older script and updating it. We'll never know but if you ask me this could have been one Lethal Protector of a film.
Venom's been around without Spidey plenty of times to sucessful results. He's even been a Guardian of the Galaxy.
I honestly still think that Venom needs Spidey for his origin...
This would be my ideal set up:
- Introduce the symbiote and Eddie in 1 movie, but have Spider-Man wear the suit for basically the whole movie till the very end, developing his story with the symbiote as the main plot and his conflict with Eddie as a sub plot.
In the end Peter ditches the symbiote and it attaches to Eddie, ending the movie in a cliffhanger.
- Have the next movie be focused on Spidey vs Venom, but also begin paving the way for Eddie becoming the lethal protector. The movie would end with Venom realizing that they could do more than just antagonize Spidey with their new found abilities, going on to their own adventure but promising they will face the web head again someday.
- That would be the beginning of the Venom movie series
@@elviejomonca4719 if he’s just going to ditch it in the original there’s no need to do it for the movies either. All of you have hundreds of Spider-Man remakes with the same origin for Venom. I prefer him doing something solo
It probably would of linked to James Cameron’s Spider-Man
Venom was a horrible movie. If you enjoyed it your brain must be fried.
Having the symbiote be attached to a spider like alien to explain why Venom has Spidey's powers is honestly so simple and perfect that it makes no sense why Sony didn't do it for their solo film.
Still though, having Venom be his own conscience and speaking to Eddie while also having a love/hate dynamic was one of the few things the films got right.
Haven't seen Let There Be Carnage yet but I hope it's better than the first.
To be fair you're the first I've heard suggest this. Whenever other people think of how Venom can be without Spider-Man they come up blank
@@plushiesdx false. There have been numerous and plenty of examples people have been giving for a Venom solo movie or ideas. Comic writer Donny Cates even made venom some lore that doesn’t involve Spider-Man at all. He introduced the god of the symbiotes and Venom to stand on his own
Yeah, he looks so weird without his tarantula symbol. It's like if superman suit was just ...blue
@@TheDailyGlobe922 But they never mention him attaching to an actual spider
Venom 2 is better than the first but it's still not a good movie.
I always wanted a Venom film in the 90s, directed by James Cameron, in the style of Alien, with the guy who played Kyle Reese in Terminator as Eddie Brock. It would be an action/horror/sci-fi film but Eddie would still make goofy jokes to himself like in the comics (in typical 90s fashion). Sort of like Die Hard with a lot of suspenseful horror moments.
I love this idea.
@@HemmasStudios_ thanks haha, if I ever learn computer animation like I’ve always wanted I’d love to make a version for youtube somehow
@@HemmasStudios_ Can you do Doetor Who Meets Scratchman There’s a good are you video idea
James Cameron almost made a Spider-Man move. It was, uh... very raunchy
Oh hey I met that guy once
A better script than the actual 2 venom movies
A better script with shitty CGI
The dynamic between eddie and cleatus in this movie sounds really interesting, I love the origins of the nicknames for carnage and venom and the idea of eddie wanting to cover cleatus's murder spree but ultimately giving him a spotlight is just terrific.
I would love to see this script adapted as a straight-to-video animated film. Maybe even make it a Disney+ exclusive.
Me too
It sounds all good until you remember the important flaw: 90's CGI. Considering the fact we got Godzilla 1998 at the same time (Thanks Sony), and compared to the CGI used in Hulk's 2004 film, it would have been horrendous or badly animated. The CGI for him wasn't ready, and barely was when Spiderman 3 came out.
Could have made an animatronic head instead
Absolutely agreed. If this came out in 97 it would have been a disaster…laughable at best
I imagine it probably would have looked similar to the 90s Spawn movie. The main costume itself was practical but there was a lot of bad CGI scenes to show its powers.
@@TheDeathsHead agreed. I tried watching spawn a few weeks ago and I turned it off 35 minutes in lol
Yeah I'm also quite glad we got the 2018 film instead, sure this could have been a fun movie but then we'd be living in an entirely different plane of comic book movies. In an alternate timeline, I can imagine the James Cameron Spider-Man movie being made and is successful along with this film to form a Spider-Man (Leonardo diCaprio) vs Venom (Dolph Lundgren) movie.
I'm super surprised how close this was to both of the Venom movies we've gotten. And it even kinda got Venom's death in Spider-Man 3 right
This film seems to have lived on with both Venom (2018) and Venom Let There be Carnage as ideas from this film went on to be in both of those films.
It’s interesting that they made Venom attached to a Spider like creature to explain why he’s Spiderlike, while in the Sony version they just have vague Spiderman-ish powers that can easily be explained by how he’s made of goo.
I really don't understand why the Vault isn't the Life Foundation. I mean this would have been weird if made. Pretty fine for a 90s Venom movie. But honestly I'm glad it didn't happen.
The Vault being the Life Foundation is a superb take. I didn’t even think of that until you said it, but now I can’t stop thinking about it.
Wait, isn't the vault a prison for superhuman villains?
10:40 Wait, that's what happened in Spider-Man 3
It’s almost exactly what happened in Spider-Man 3. Goes to show that none of these ideas never truly stay dead.
So obviously most of this was repurposed for Venom (2018). But that scene with a grenade blowing up Carnage and Cletus getting blown up with it reminds me a lot of Spider-Man 3.
If Dolph Lundgren play as the role of Eddie Brock aka Venom I bet Robert Englund would play as the role of Cletus Kasady aka Carnage
Dolph Lundgren as Eddie Brock is actually the most sensible casting of Eddie Brock I've ever heard of.
He would have looked perfect as Eddie. The physique, the size, the head facial traits etc.
Shame it cancelled
But not particularly this script's version of him.
God I miss the elseworld madness of superhero movies. Way better to watch instead of the bland mid area that doesn't hit accurate nor out there tones of modern Marvel.
I adore the way that the early superhero movies felt. The X-Men an Spider-Man trilogies, Blade, even Superman Returns. They had faults, sure. But I appreciate that they went for it, for sure. It felt more like they were trying to adapt a book back then, and you definitely got some interesting choices because of it.
@@HemmasStudios_ can you do David Hayter’s Hulk movie?
"Kassidy doesn't die" literally the next sentence: "his head lights on fire"
This comment legitimately made me laugh out loud.
It seems like they implemented ideas from that script into Spider-Man 3 too. With the grenade being tossed at the formless symbiote and the host (Eddie in Spider-Man 3) jumping into the blast.
That actually makes a lot of sense cuz the first Venom movie felt like a 90s comicbookmovie and there was a ton of Beats they took from that original script I was half expecting to hear Eddie brought jumps into a tank and a fancy restaurant and start eating live lobsters
The lobster tank scene is one of the most beautiful, moving, poignant scenes in the history of cinèma.
But in all seriousness, it’s so, so similar to Venom and Let There Be Carnage, it’s wild.
@@HemmasStudios_ agreed it really is
Not bad, although it would look like Spawn. There's hope they'd have tried mostly practical effects, like those made by Rick Baker in the 80s, with few scenes of CGI, but since Jurassic Park came out in 1993, yeah, fucking Spawn.
Man, a lot of cancelled marvel movies from different companies really end up being utilized in the released movies in some capacity. A lot of the parts in this movie get echoed in Venom and Let There Be Carnage
I think Skeet Ulrich would have made a phenomenal Eddie Brock in 1997.
the final fight from that script was used in spiderman 3
I've read this script a while back. I absolutely like the backstory of Cletus and Eddie having been orphans and growing up in the same orphanage, with Cletus effectively being a scar on Eddie's life, making this a story of facing the man who's ruined your life and has now returned, and I also like the script's depiction of Cletus, him being more psychotic, evil and reminiscent of Joker in TDK. I also like his cult status and following.
The new powers are bizarre and don't fit symbiotes, though, and Peter still should've been involved with Venom and Eddie's backstories.
"before any Spider-Man movie came out" *laughs in Spider-Man 1977*
I mean it was technically multiple episodes of the 70s show just put together as a movie. So it doesn't count.
Venom and Morbius should have their very own spin-off television series starring Hank Azaria and Nick Jameson
I think it would’ve been like the Spawn movie, not perfect but really cool. There are things about this that I actually like better than the Venom movie we got.
This sounds utterly insane and sounds very close to the two Venom movies we got which are both basically modern day 90s movies so it probably would've been better.
cletus becoming carnage during his execution was something still kept in venom 2, interesting
0:19 ,,Venom made his jump to the big screen before any spider man movie ever"
Spider man 1977: Im joke to you?
Yes. It very much is a joke to me. :P
I'm honestly more curious on how they would have done this movie visually. This is 1997, CGI wasn't exactly what it is today (Unless you're James Cameron). They would have had to use practical effects and animatronics for Venom and Carnage. And of course there's the few shots of the hostless Symbiotes. They would absolutely have to use CGI there.
It probrably look like liquid terminator cgi h.r. giger meets the michael jai white spawn suit and the kangaroo battle suits from tank girl
Even though I would love to see this version of the venom movie I'm glad this didn't happen because to me doing a venom movie without Spider-Man is really weird it feels wrong not involving Spider-Man
10:45 Well that indeed made it into Spiderman 3,
Cast Dolph Lundgren / Venom Robert England /Carnage
I can't really see Robert Englund as Carnage. Too much like Freddy than Carnage. That was a fancast that started by TheEntity'sLair since he's a fan of Freddy. For me, maybe Brad Dourif or Michael Rooker since they're more "crazier" in their role. Also Dourif had the better laugh and looks good with red hair.
@@brandonspain12345 really you tell my now wow
Interesting how the execution & She-Venom story-arcs were used in the Venom 2 movie. That happens so often with comic book movies these days. Recycle/Repeat
Imagine if this came out the same year as Blade or the Black Panther which was Wesley Snipes originally wanted to do or even if James Cameron’s Spider-Man became a reality?
Speaking of David S Goyer, have you found his cancelled Flash movie yet?
Are you going to the original script for Halloween the return of Michael Myers, Tobe Hooper’s Spider-Man, George Ramiro’s Mummy, Ridley Scott’s I am legend or in the mountain of madness?
I’m pretty sure somebody else in the comments brought up the idea of Leo’s hypothetical Spidey facing off against Dolph’s Venom and in my mind, that’s a delicious prospect.
Some of the ideas you mentioned, if all goes according to plan, you’ll actually get videos on before the year is over. There are some others in there that I know when I’d like to do a video on them, and the rest of them are pretty much all movies I’d like to cover at some point :)
@@HemmasStudios_ I hope so because I guess you know about Halloween kills also I forgot to mention about Marvin the Martian movie which is set around Christmas
Fun fact: Last year’s Christmas special was about Martians. Maybe a pattern will emerge ;)
Even Kletus throwing himself into the fire out of need of being with the symbiote and trying to save it mirrors Eddie throwing himself into the explosion to merge with the symbiote and save it in Spider-Man 3
It goes to show that none of these ideas ever really die- they just co-mingle with other ideas until you get something new!
Thank you for sharing this with us and it sounds like an interesting movie and a solid story which could’ve introduced the character well enough and set up the foundation for future Marvel movies but probably the main problem lies right there as in there just weren’t any other Marvel movies that were well known at the time and this movie was not even focused on one of their more popular and well known characters but rather a new villain who was gaining popularity, but certainly wasn’t ready for his own movie. Good report though and part of why I enjoy your channel so much.
If Dolph "The Punisher" Lundgren was considered to play Eddie Brock/Venom,
then David "Nick Fury" Hasselhoff would most likely portray Cletus Kasady/Carnage.
Nah Robert Englund would be great casting as Cletus Kasady
@@PerfectYakon2219
He's creepy, but not intimidating.
@@KenMasters. same with Carnage
@@PerfectYakon2219
Carnage is like Venom, but slender.
Another thing about Robert Englund: He already played a Kasady-like character, a pre-immortalized Freddy Krueger. Casting him for the part would make him seem like a redundant type-cast for those who have watched Freddy's Dead.
I love Venom and this is an Awesome Documentary 👏 such a shame New Line Cinema’s Venom never came to be. But I think the main reasons why it was never made because back in the 90s the CGI graphic effects weren’t advanced enough nor superhero films weren’t as popular as they are today. But it could’ve worked if you look at some classic films made in the 90s like _Terminator 2,_ _Jurassic Park,_ _The Mask,_ _Men In Black_ and _Flubber_ they had some impressive CGI.
I’ve read David S. Goyer’s script online for myself and thought it was really decent but weird. It was more like a horror/sci-fi film with a much edgier tone compared to Tom Hardy’s films, but it was still a superhero film - think similar to the films like _Alien,_ _An American Werewolf In London,_ _The Thing,_ and _The Fly._
Some of this sounds like Spider-Man 3 and both Venom movies stuff
"Eddie wakes up as Venom"
"Carnage saves Cletus from death sentence"
"Venom goes back to Eddie with a kiss"
"Cletus goes into the explosion for the symbiote"
It's interesting that they used a lot from this script in the Venom movies.
For sure, it goes to show that none of this stuff never really dies, it just get repurposed :P
OH MY GOD! I'VE BEEN ASKING ANOTHER TH-camR AND YOU GAVE ME WHAT I WANT!
Glad to give you what you want!
This sounds better than the venom movie we got but it also explains why the venom movie we got seems so dated
This would've been better than the ones we got
It sounds pretty damn good, the only thing I didn’t like very much is the casting for Eddie
I'm still struggling to understand HOW someone as mediocre as David S. Goyer has managed to make it so big in Hollywood.
A version of this is honestly would have been a great sequel to the 2018 move. Love the 2018 movie. Not so much the sequel, but it was still watchable.
Carnage turning his hand into a shotgun feels... weird to me. I mean, it makes sense in terms of the character's personality and tone, but I always thought symbiotes following T-1000 rules, which meant no guns.
The cameo of venom in the comics was 84 number 252 which is awesome since it’s the year I was born. Great video.
I really hate the unnecessary romance between Eddie and Kafka. It just feels so random and out of place, and I really just wish more movies could have male and female characters NOT kiss or fall in love or anything. Though ig it was 1997, but it still pisses me off a bit
Sadly, 90s movies have guilty of having out of nowhere romance stuffs
Spider-Man TAS did it first though. In Carnage's episodes!
Great video bro, keep up the good work! I’m new to your channel so I already have a like and a new subscriber.
Thank you so much! I’m glad you enjoy!
I was obsessed with venom as a kid, surprised I never heard of this back then. While the concept seems interesting the terrible cgi would have really impeded it, as we know even 2007 venom looked like trash.
I had no idea that Cletus Kasady's nickname was actually "Carnage"
I kinda wish they just used this script for the Venom movie
This is just Venom Let There Be Carnage but in the 90s
Funny how similar the 97 script is to the recent Tom Hardy Venom movies and the death of Carnage in this is very similar to the death of Venom in Spider-Man 3
such an interesting story,it may have needed few improvements but i think it would be an interesting story arc for MCU
There was a fan film made with Dolph as Eddie Brocks and it was in TH-cam.
It would have been wired if we got a Venom movie before a Spider-Man
Venom in the animated series was great. Half blue shading, half red. So good
Couldn’t agree more. It was such a cool look!
This channel is gold !
Thank you! You’re username is also gold!
Can you do the cancelled venom movie that was supposed to come out a year after spiderman 3 came out
I’ll definitely look into it :)
@@HemmasStudios_ thank you so much!!
@@cap8985yes you talk about jude law venom movie in 2009 yes i know in This movie Its not topher grace who play venom its jude law who was gona be eddie brock venom
Weird how the set up of how Eddie and Cletus and the newspaper column is similar to Let There Be Carnage
Hi👋Friend👋You’re Channel Is Super Awesome 😎 Happy To Head That Venom Project Movie As Been Going For Years 👍I Am Happy With The 2 Venom Movies That We Got👍
Thank you for the kind words!
Spiderman 3 used the idea separating the symbiote with cletus and then was desperate to go back and get blown up like Peter did with pumpkin bomb
When you look at the film, it's got the plot of Venom, but with the main characters of Venom: Let there be Carnage
Can you please do a Canned Goods episode on the history and cancelation of The Divergent Series: Ascendant? Also, please do one on The Mortal Instruments: City of Ashes and the Mortal Instruments: City Of Glass.
Hey there can you make more of this videos it's so fun to watch.
Also question are you the only one who makes this videos or do you have a team?
I’m working on new videos all the time, so I got you covered there :D
Also, yes. Just me on the videos!
@@HemmasStudios_ that's insane you are the only one that makes this videos. Btw don't give up I hope you will be a big TH-camr one day.
It's surreal how much of this ended up showing up in the Venom movies we have today. I mean don't get me wrong "The others" lol
Where to get this movie?
Any link??
There's still a possibility that Dolph can be cast as an older venom variant in venom 3
"Cassidy screams how he needs Carnage and throws himself into the fire" sounds familiar
Just goes to show that none of this stuff really ever gets completely trashed- it just gets recycled :P
This totally sounds like what became the new Venom movies. Like, the amount of similarities and osmosis of ideas is immense. I'm super happy with the Movies we got, though. If we got the '97 version of it, it probably wouldn't be all that different.
never heard anyone say they're 'super happy' with the venom movies before but to each their own
@@BenjaminoTalkswell, it’s all situational. It’s probably the best venom movie we could’ve gotten lol
Yoo are you planning to do youre version of spiderman 4 and amazing spiderman 3 ?
At some point, I’d love to talk about those movies, for sure.
@@HemmasStudios_ thanks man
I wish this was the version of non spider venom that we got
i just finished the script, ,(you can find it on reddit), and all i can say is,"this is something else." I really liked it. would have been cool, if this was a real movie, though.
Surprisingly enough, That cancelled Venom would have came out the same year as *sigh* Spawn, Batman and Robin, and Steel
this movie sounds pretty 90s lmfao
So this is really just a mix of Venom (1 and 2), the comics and some original ideas... I like it
Interesting. But, well, it was the 90s and the whole thing gives off potentially disastrous vibes, Daredevil style.
Can you please talk about the unmade version of Hancock please?
I’ll definitely look into it, for sure.
This is venom 2021 mixed with venom 2018
And the comics and new ideas
I see that some of this is similar to the venom movie from a few years ago
They should make a new movie called venom versus Morbius starring Tom Hardy and Jared Leto
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@Hemmas Studios can you do Plastic man 1995 cancelled movie ?
hi HEMMAS STUDIOS CAN YOU DO A NEXT VIDEO THE CANCELLED GARFIELD MOVIE FROM THE 90S IS
GARFIELD JUDGMENT DAY 🐱🐶🌩⛈🌩
I'll definitely look into it :D
@@HemmasStudios_ sounds great :)
@@jmpmovieproductions6095 that would be awesome
if this was tweaked a bit (like give a better reason why carnage would bond with cletus or just change carnage's origin in general) and made today, it would probably make for a really entertaining watch
The script sounds like something you’d see on best of the worst
I can only imagine Mike and Jay talking about the scene where Carnage talks about taking a bite out of the big apple.
So they couldn't use the word symbiotes or The Daily Bugle because of Spider-Man rights
This would have been a lot of fun tbh, I think its better than what we got with Let There Be Carnage
I want this movie so badly 😭
Way better than the 2018 movie
Ashley Kafka: Eddie, stop! You're killing Spider-Man!!!
Venom: If he dies, he dies!
This movie sounds a bit similar to thr one we got in 2018, but its still different
Considering this was written before Blade and was released and by the studio that made Blade, New Line Cinema, it would more likely would've been rated R. So already they made the 2018 movie look like a bitch. Also, Carnage would be in the first movie and have to wait for a sequel. Not to mention, but this would've come out a time when practical and CGI effects were both used. With the CGI being used to enhance the effects. But the films by New Line had some really bad CGI, like Spawn, Blade, Mortal Kombat or Freddy vs. Jason, so even if the story and effects are good, the CGI would've hurt the movie.
The effects then would of been terrible second it would be terrible like spawn 97
@@tyronleung5276 The CGI sure, but the practical effects would've been good.
@@brandonspain12345 the story would've been awful