Thanks for watching folks, this video took me a bit more time as I was working basically to the minute I uploaded it, but hopefully you all enjoy! Whoops, I made a mistake, apparently, Red and Blue orb have not been legal the entire generation, and have instead been legal since March 8th 2023, thank you to the OM discord for the correction, and here's the link to the Smogon post if you'd like to read more on the topic :) www.smogon.com/forums/threads/putting-the-mix-back-into-mix-and-mega.3717633/
It’s broken. Using any decent special attacker with red orb is broken. It’s like blue orb rapid strike urshifu, it just deals too much damage, but with red orb it was more general.
Agreed, Blue Orb Urshifu is at least held back by being on a 97 Speed Mon, but Red Orb you could slap that on any Special Attacker worth a grain of salt and chances are it'd get at least 1 or 2 kills.
@@EvelynIsBased It also breaks walls like butter, and it’s faster than a good few pokémon. Honestly one of the biggest threats in mix and mega might be diancite iron valiant, because it can 1shot a LOT.
blue orb ursh is pretty mid since you gain effectively the exact same output from aerodactylite without losing out on the speed boost; you generally would prefer one of the TC stones (not zardx, thats a really bad stone)
We live in a society where the ord for the physical attacker boosts the special attack more and the orb for the special attacker boosts the physical attack more.
Definitely true, though it's interesting how long it was allowed within the tier, and the ways players attempted to counter it or explain why it should be allowed.
This is actually a measure from the mnm council to help against the summer heat. Last thing you need is the opposing doofus sending a mon that makes it extra sunny
Since I did spend a little time defending Primal abilities in the AAA video, this video confirms why, exactly, I felt comfortable calling the abilities of the Red/Blue Orbs not broken on their own. When those were legal items in baseline play, Groudon ruled the Ubers meta. If Primal Groudon came back today, Red Orb would probably become AG, and at least shove Arceus-Ground out of the meta. The fact it still makes some Pokemon very good due to a throwaway Special Attack boost also doesn’t help. If AAA is a tier where everybody basically has two item slots and no ability, Mix and Mega is a tier where everybody has one ability and one excessively stacked item slot. The numbers sound small until you realize they are directly added to the BST, allowing them to do so much more than even a free Choice item could ever do.
You're 100% right here BTW, Weather Ball is entirely the reason for Red Orb's ban. 150BP no drawback STAB is crazy stupid, especially on EVERY Weather Ball user bar very few Pokemon.
honestly, i'd argue Volcarona was also a big threat out apart of the red orb users. Great coverage, great special attack, quiver dance to boost spdef, SPEED and SPECIAL ATTACK, one quiver dance was enough to beat down teams if you're able to get past aerilate espeed
Volcarona was definitely a decent choice, I just personally didn't mention it as it has a lot more gaps in its plan then most, it has a fairly bad STAB pairing for the Metagame, couldn't carry HDB due to Red Orb, and only would succeed if you were able to remove the enemies Aerilate or fast physical attackers, which most good players will be careful to not let happen in the face of a Volcarona, but it is definitely a notable choice
Honestly, the beginning of the video described why it is so good even in a blind sense. If even Jolteon is good in general against all Pokemon in the M&M meta by having the Red Orb, the item is always broken, and for it to not be broken only Pokémon with Groudon-level Special Attack or lower would be allowed to use the Red Orb in M&M.
It's two main things happening in gen 9 that caused this 1.Weather Ball getting the generous distribution it did is what sent things out of control, mainly 2. Blue Orb being a fundamentally less viable option, except for a small handful of Pokemon, many of which either did not return to SV (Golisopod & Ferrothorn) or were banned/restricted (Kyogre & Kilowattrel)
I'm surprised Great Tusk wasn't mentioned. I saw it A LOT before the ban and I used it myself as a spinner, defensive wall and check for E-speeders, and a wall breaker with bulk up/temper flare which could 2 shot Lugia and other bulky mo and one shot Corviknight who don't expect it
While good, Great Tusks overall lower Special Bulk makes it tough to mention, though if I had time to make a longer video I likely would've mentioned it, in something like this I didn't really have that
Jolteon has been unbanned, as well as Enamorus who while I didn't mention it to save time, was also banned, and is now unbanned. Kilowattrel though has not been unbanned as it's believed it's abuse of Endeavor and Incredible power behind Blue orb + It's great speed tier, makes it far too strong
@@EvelynIsBased Makes sense since Kilo also used blue orb. Kind of hilarious that such an overlooked and underwhelming Pokémon ended up being banworthy in this particular OM. Thanks for answering!
Blue Orb is not banned, and many players, including myself don't see it ever being banned. While it offers incredible power to Physical attackers and niche aspects for a few Special attackers, it is in no way as overwhelming as the Red Orb was, which granted Mons STAB and a +50 boost to SpA. The most prominent abuser of The Blue Orb is Urshifu RS, who gets a +50 to Atk, and a Rain boost on Surging Strikes, yet it's still an underwhelming choice as it's Speed is far less then a desirable pick, and it can still struggle to break through very specific Mons like the mentioned Eternatus.
All 6 of your pokemon can be Megas or take use of a form changing item like the dauntless shield, the only hold back is that you can not have two mons with the same Stones on a team.
@@EvelynIsBased copycat is a dexited move, so this is actually a natdex om issue only. What might happen for tiers like mix and mega is that overflow clause is no longer in effect, so you can have idiots who eat 0 percent from one side of the spectrum
Thanks for watching folks, this video took me a bit more time as I was working basically to the minute I uploaded it, but hopefully you all enjoy!
Whoops, I made a mistake, apparently, Red and Blue orb have not been legal the entire generation, and have instead been legal since March 8th 2023, thank you to the OM discord for the correction, and here's the link to the Smogon post if you'd like to read more on the topic :)
www.smogon.com/forums/threads/putting-the-mix-back-into-mix-and-mega.3717633/
Also Kilowattrel was restricted before the Orbs existed and was never freed, just a quick heads-up
It’s broken. Using any decent special attacker with red orb is broken. It’s like blue orb rapid strike urshifu, it just deals too much damage, but with red orb it was more general.
Agreed, Blue Orb Urshifu is at least held back by being on a 97 Speed Mon, but Red Orb you could slap that on any Special Attacker worth a grain of salt and chances are it'd get at least 1 or 2 kills.
@@EvelynIsBased It also breaks walls like butter, and it’s faster than a good few pokémon. Honestly one of the biggest threats in mix and mega might be diancite iron valiant, because it can 1shot a LOT.
blue orb ursh is pretty mid since you gain effectively the exact same output from aerodactylite without losing out on the speed boost; you generally would prefer one of the TC stones (not zardx, thats a really bad stone)
We live in a society where the ord for the physical attacker boosts the special attack more and the orb for the special attacker boosts the physical attack more.
@@user-AADZ We truly live in a Smogonciety
@@EvelynIsBased I misspelled orb
Free sun boosted fire stab, a ton of SpA and a water immunity to boot. Yeah, this one is pretty self explanatory
Definitely true, though it's interesting how long it was allowed within the tier, and the ways players attempted to counter it or explain why it should be allowed.
This is actually a measure from the mnm council to help against the summer heat. Last thing you need is the opposing doofus sending a mon that makes it extra sunny
I like hearing you talk about niche metagames i dont think ill ever touch :) still super cool knowing they exist
Since I did spend a little time defending Primal abilities in the AAA video, this video confirms why, exactly, I felt comfortable calling the abilities of the Red/Blue Orbs not broken on their own. When those were legal items in baseline play, Groudon ruled the Ubers meta. If Primal Groudon came back today, Red Orb would probably become AG, and at least shove Arceus-Ground out of the meta. The fact it still makes some Pokemon very good due to a throwaway Special Attack boost also doesn’t help.
If AAA is a tier where everybody basically has two item slots and no ability, Mix and Mega is a tier where everybody has one ability and one excessively stacked item slot. The numbers sound small until you realize they are directly added to the BST, allowing them to do so much more than even a free Choice item could ever do.
You're 100% right here BTW, Weather Ball is entirely the reason for Red Orb's ban. 150BP no drawback STAB is crazy stupid, especially on EVERY Weather Ball user bar very few Pokemon.
I hope you'll cover more of this other metagame, looks very interesting
I definitely will :)
honestly, i'd argue Volcarona was also a big threat out apart of the red orb users. Great coverage, great special attack, quiver dance to boost spdef, SPEED and SPECIAL ATTACK, one quiver dance was enough to beat down teams if you're able to get past aerilate espeed
Volcarona was definitely a decent choice, I just personally didn't mention it as it has a lot more gaps in its plan then most, it has a fairly bad STAB pairing for the Metagame, couldn't carry HDB due to Red Orb, and only would succeed if you were able to remove the enemies Aerilate or fast physical attackers, which most good players will be careful to not let happen in the face of a Volcarona, but it is definitely a notable choice
Honestly, the beginning of the video described why it is so good even in a blind sense. If even Jolteon is good in general against all Pokemon in the M&M meta by having the Red Orb, the item is always broken, and for it to not be broken only Pokémon with Groudon-level Special Attack or lower would be allowed to use the Red Orb in M&M.
It's two main things happening in gen 9 that caused this
1.Weather Ball getting the generous distribution it did is what sent things out of control, mainly
2. Blue Orb being a fundamentally less viable option, except for a small handful of Pokemon, many of which either did not return to SV (Golisopod & Ferrothorn) or were banned/restricted (Kyogre & Kilowattrel)
i'd love to see a video about solgaleo in m&m! :)
typlosion hisui with tailwind support +50 spa sunboosted erruption🗣🗣🔥
i think you should do some team show cases for the metagames. i think it would be so fun to play these tiers but idk where to start
I've had the thought of doing such a thing, but am unsure of exactly how to do so, but I'll start thinking into it more :)
I'm surprised Great Tusk wasn't mentioned. I saw it A LOT before the ban and I used it myself as a spinner, defensive wall and check for E-speeders, and a wall breaker with bulk up/temper flare which could 2 shot Lugia and other bulky mo and one shot Corviknight who don't expect it
While good, Great Tusks overall lower Special Bulk makes it tough to mention, though if I had time to make a longer video I likely would've mentioned it, in something like this I didn't really have that
@@EvelynIsBased Makes sense, great vid though
i thought this was a jimothy cool video based on the thumbnail
Damn the only tier where my boy jolteon was the undisputed king of eeveelution s all good times must come to an end I guess
I mean, it is a pretty good sign that the thing in question is just broken if the very bad Jolteon is now a legitimate threat to Pokémon
Hey, look! It's Evelyn!
So, is there discussion of Jolteon and Kilowattrel being unbanned now?
Jolteon has been unbanned, as well as Enamorus who while I didn't mention it to save time, was also banned, and is now unbanned. Kilowattrel though has not been unbanned as it's believed it's abuse of Endeavor and Incredible power behind Blue orb + It's great speed tier, makes it far too strong
@@EvelynIsBased Makes sense since Kilo also used blue orb. Kind of hilarious that such an overlooked and underwhelming Pokémon ended up being banworthy in this particular OM. Thanks for answering!
I’d like to see the Solgaleo video
ay I remember when I used Rampardos and actually got very good results (like 1400+ elo)
If Red Orb is banned then I hope the Blue Orb is also banned
Blue Orb is not banned, and many players, including myself don't see it ever being banned. While it offers incredible power to Physical attackers and niche aspects for a few Special attackers, it is in no way as overwhelming as the Red Orb was, which granted Mons STAB and a +50 boost to SpA. The most prominent abuser of The Blue Orb is Urshifu RS, who gets a +50 to Atk, and a Rain boost on Surging Strikes, yet it's still an underwhelming choice as it's Speed is far less then a desirable pick, and it can still struggle to break through very specific Mons like the mentioned Eternatus.
@@EvelynIsBased thank you for the clarification
now good typing wo chien is difficult
What!
Are you still restricted to one mega in this meta, or do all 6 of your mons get a form change?
All 6 of your pokemon can be Megas or take use of a form changing item like the dauntless shield, the only hold back is that you can not have two mons with the same Stones on a team.
Thoughts on AG OM's? I feel like it would be funny if we have an AG versions for OM's since we could play anything.
Would be interesting, though would probably run into the same problem every AG tier struggles with, Revivecats
@@EvelynIsBased copycat is a dexited move, so this is actually a natdex om issue only. What might happen for tiers like mix and mega is that overflow clause is no longer in effect, so you can have idiots who eat 0 percent from one side of the spectrum
This guy saw Jimmys homework and copied it word for word